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All out.

dooku and ventress.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
dooku and ventress.
Agreed.

Originally posted by Kotor3
All out. You weren't serious when you made this, were you?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
You weren't serious when you made this, were you?

Well, I always thought Obi Wan was quite powerful as of ANH. I sure you already know my thoughts on Ventress from previous threads. Thought is would be a good match.

Dooku and Ventress.

Obi-Wan doesn't seem to be in shape for anything...

True, Obi's special skill at that time seemed to be "uniting himself with the Force" and then Luke will be f*cked. But Luke will probably die a horrible swift death first.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Well, I always thought Obi Wan was quite powerful as of ANH. I sure you already know my thoughts on Ventress from previous threads. Thought is would be a good match. I think it's been established that by ANH, Obi-Wan's virtual lack of combat training would drop him below the likes of his RotS self and the incredibly skilled an agile Ventress, never mind Dooku, whom he was never able to beat. RotJ Luke provides little in the way of lightsaber experience, his own being limited to Vader's style. Factor in Dooku's superior control of the Force and you get a win for him and Ventress.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I think it's been established that by ANH, Obi-Wan's virtual lack of combat training would drop him below the likes of his RotS self and the incredibly skilled an agile Ventress, never mind Dooku, whom he was never able to beat. RotJ Luke provides little in the way of lightsaber experience, his own being limited to Vader's style. Factor in Dooku's superior control of the Force and you get a win for him and Ventress.

The statement about Obi Wan is that from a source or just establish KMC opinions? I was always under the impression that Obi Wan power in the force increase by the time of ANH. Especially since Vader who is much more powerful in terms of force mastery than Anakin, still seem to have trouble taking Obi Wan, actually he never did. Obi Wan allowed himself to die.

Originally posted by Kotor3
The statement about Obi Wan is that from a source or just establish KMC opinions? I was always under the impression that Obi Wan power in the force increase by the time of ANH. Especially since Vader who is much more powerful in terms of force mastery than Anakin, still seem to have trouble taking Obi Wan, actually he never did. Obi Wan allowed himself to die. Obi-Wan had spent time training in that Living Force thing, the whole Force ghost deal. But he didn't keep up his training over those 19 years neither in lightsaber combat or physical conditioning. Vader meanwhile had spent that same time as the second most powerful man in the galaxy, studying under Palpatine himself. Plus he's younger for however much that counts.

And I can't cite a source but if Vader's 80% of Palps and he had trouble taking ANH Kenobi---math doesn't make sense. He wasn't giving it his all in the ANH duel.

Dooku wins it.

Originally posted by Kotor3
The statement about Obi Wan is that from a source or just establish KMC opinions? I was always under the impression that Obi Wan power in the force increase by the time of ANH. Especially since Vader who is much more powerful in terms of force mastery than Anakin, still seem to have trouble taking Obi Wan, actually he never did. Obi Wan allowed himself to die.

From Star Wars Death Star:"He still had some skill, his old Master did, but he was out of practice . Vader could feel it through the Force."

Fan I do not remember that quote from the movies but I will take your word on it. However I would like to know the source of that quote. Lucien I do not understand how you feel your statement answered my questions. I am fully aware of who learn what from who and the ability you were refering to.

The quote does prove one thing that I am not debating that Obi Wan is out of practice in saber combat which would make sense. My question is his increase power in the force. A better quote if you want to make an argument is the one from Vader were he stated to Obi Wan "Your powers are weak old man". Yet Obi Wan allowed himself to be killed. If Obi Wan is weaker than he was in ROTS, it makes his battle with Vader seem that much more ridculous. It still does not prove your assumption that Vader was holding back, especially since Vader did not hold back when Obi Wan allowed him to strike him. All I am saying is that your assumptions make sense if you are looking at the battle from that point of view and that is fine. I do not agree. I base my view off what I know happen in the movies and not the novel or anything else.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Fan I do not remember that quote from the movies but I will take your word on it. However I would like to know the source of that quote. Lucien I do not understand how you feel your statement answered my questions. I am fully aware of who learn what from who and the ability you were refering to.

The quote does prove one thing that I am not debating that Obi Wan is out of practice in saber combat which would make sense. My question is his increase power in the force. A better quote if you want to make an argument is the one from Vader were he stated to Obi Wan "Your powers are weak old man". Yet Obi Wan allowed himself to be killed. If Obi Wan is weaker than he was in ROTS, it makes his battle with Vader seem that much more ridculous. It still does not prove your assumption that Vader was holding back, especially since Vader did not hold back when Obi Wan allowed him to strike him. All I am saying is that your assumptions make sense if you are looking at the battle from that point of view and that is fine. I do not agree. I base my view off what I know happen in the movies and not the novel or anything else. I... don't think you understand a lot of what's said around here. That said I'm just not gonna bother with you.

Damn, that was mean.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Fan I do not remember that quote from the movies but I will take your word on it. However I would like to know the source of that quote.

This is my source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Star_(novel.)

Originally posted by Kotor3
Fan I do not remember that quote from the movies


Originally posted by Kotor3

but I will take your word on it. However I would like to know the source of that quote.
The source was given, you decided to take his word for it, and you still want to demand a source from him? Make up your mind! Pick one avenue of attack (either condescend to accept his source or demand confirmation) and stick to it. When you don't you end up looking foolish.

Originally posted by Kotor3

Lucien I do not understand how you feel your statement answered my questions. I am fully aware of who learn what from who and the ability you were refering to.
The source of his new Force knowledge was heavily specialized in the 'living Force'. To say that this source would also know about other techniques requires proof. We don't have any proof that Qui-Gon knew any other relevant techniques to teach Kenobi.

Originally posted by Kotor3

The quote does prove one thing that I am not debating that Obi Wan is out of practice in saber combat which would make sense.

He could feel Kenobi's lack of practice through the Force?