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An almalgam of a Punisher and Fury robot vs Superman. Can Superman win?

Are you serious???

Yup.

Really?

he's not beating superman. there's nothing i've seen either punisher or the fury do that puts them on clark's level.

Originally posted by Raoul
he's not beating superman. there's nothing i've seen either punisher or the fury do that puts them on clark's level.

I was just wondering to myself what the punishers had done? The last time I saw them, they were being raped by Thanos, half a dozen at a time.

Originally posted by Raoul
he's not beating superman. there's nothing i've seen either punisher or the fury do that puts them on clark's level.

Silver Surfer was only able to beat a Punisher by using matter manipulation. That weakness is not something Superman could utilise now its merged with The Fury.

Rachel Grey had to create a black hole to beat a Fury.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I was just wondering to myself what the punishers had done? The last time I saw them, they were being raped by Thanos, half a dozen at a time.

Superman isnt as powerful as Thanos though is he? Considering that Thanos eats heralds for breakfast why are we comparing Superman to Thanos?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Superman isnt as powerful as Thanos though is he? Considering that Thanos eats heralds for breakfast why are we comparing Superman to Thanos?

While I agree, I just hadn't seen what the punishers had done that would put them in Supes' weight-class.

Originally posted by Enyalus
While I agree, I just hadn't seen what the punishers had done that would put them in Supes' weight-class.

All I know is that Surfer had to resort to matter manipulation on one ocassion to beat it.

ohhhh man I totally mistook this thread. I thought you were talking about Frank Castle and THe machine MJJ (alt) made. I mean Frank wouldn't do shit and The Fury would rape him.


Anyway as for these not sure but prob supes...

dur on me. i finally remembered where i'd seen the punisher before:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/pr1983/th_SilverSurferv3109p08.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/pr1983/th_SilverSurferv3109p11.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/pr1983/th_SilverSurferv3109p12.jpg

even with his own powers dampened, surfer still has little trouble in dispatching a punisher. while the upgrade would help somewhat, i really don't see them taking down superman...

Originally posted by Raoul
dur on me. i finally remembered where i'd seen the punisher before:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/pr1983/th_SilverSurferv3109p08.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/pr1983/th_SilverSurferv3109p11.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/pr1983/th_SilverSurferv3109p12.jpg

even with his own powers dampened, surfer still has little trouble in dispatching a punisher. while the upgrade would help somewhat, i really don't see them taking down superman...

He had to resort to matter manipluation because brute force was not working. Its merged with a Fury thats going to make matter manipluation extremely difficult.

Superman does not have matter manipluation on the level that Surfer has.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He had to resort to matter manipluation because brute force was not working. Its merged with a Fury thats going to make matter manipluation extremely difficult.

Superman does not have matter manipluation on the level that Surfer has.

he doesn't need it, imo. surfer said himself that because both are powered by galactus (in a sense), that surfer wasn't hurting him as much. if surfer was at full strength and able to hurt him, then i'd like to see what happens...

also, fury got beat by what was largely a second rate x-men team.

Originally posted by Raoul
he doesn't need it, imo. surfer said himself that because both are powered by galactus (in a sense), that surfer wasn't hurting him as much.

Silver Surfer stated that his most powerful blows werent working....and you're telling he didnt need to?

Originally posted by Raoul

if surfer was at full strength and able to hurt him, then i'd like to see what happens...

Ok where does it state he was weakened?

Originally posted by Raoul

also, fury got beat by what was largely a second rate x-men team.

No offence but I did state that Rachel was amped by Sage and had to create a black hole. How many X-men can do that?

Shitfury or the one that gave MJJ a fight?

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Shitfury or the one that gave MJJ a fight?

Im basing my Fury on the ones seen in issues of Uncanny Xmen 2004/2005 onwards.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Silver Surfer stated that his most powerful blows werent working....and you're telling he didnt need to?

Ok where does it state he was weakened?

surfer says:

"My stoutest blows have no effect on him - perhaps because Galactus created us both, he is somehow immune to my blasts of power cosmic."

also, it isn't even specified if the surfer is throwing punches...



i read the comic. a black hole is impressive, but before that, we hadn't seen him fight anyone that impressive. bishop? cannonball? he didn't fight anyone with massive levels of strength.

fury (and it was just a facsimile, iirc) got killed by a black hole. that durability << superman's.

Originally posted by Raoul
surfer says:

"My stoutest blows have no effect on him - perhaps because Galactus created us both, he is somehow immune to my blasts of power cosmic."

Well theres two problems with that.

1. Hes said perhaps.
2. Hes fought other heralds before and been able to hurt them.


Originally posted by Raoul

also, it isn't even specified if the surfer is throwing punches...


Probably not looking at how he usually fights.

Originally posted by Raoul

i read the comic.

So did I.

Originally posted by Raoul

a black hole is impressive, but before that, we hadn't seen him fight anyone that impressive. bishop? cannonball? he didn't fight anyone with massive levels of strength.

Ok I see what you are saying but I think you are missing the point. Eventhough brute strength was not used to defeat it all sorts of different attackes were bing used to defeat it. If it merely took brute force they would have used it. Sage was analysing The Fury and looking at The Furys weakness and amping Rachel. If it all it took was brute force Sage would have gone for that option.

At any rate The Fury is merged with The Punisher so it now has class 100 durability, it can also create a forcefield.

Originally posted by Raoul

fury (and it was just a facsimile, iirc) got killed by a black hole. that durability << superman's.

As far as I know the black hole was created inside the Fury so thats different. At any rate Superman is going to have a hard time destroying it and in the mean time its going to get stronger.

P.S> However in a mini-series it seems that weaker versions of The Fury were killed by conventional damage. Based on those version my robot would lose but if its based the one that appeared in The X-men the robot can win.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Shitfury or the one that gave MJJ a fight?

Yeah dude I thought the same thing... It's the chump machine on the worldship. But I do believe SS speculation about being created by BIg G and The machine also being created by big G SS physical blows would not have been as damaging. Since I'm confident SS punches are normally juiced up with PC. Superman would not have such a problem....

Fury

hahahahaha, when I read this thread title I thought you guys were talking about Frank Castle and Nick Fury vs. Superman!

Originally posted by Silent Guardian
hahahahaha, when I read this thread title I thought you guys were talking about Frank Castle and Nick Fury vs. Superman!

So let me get this straight, this is not Nick Fury nor MJJ's Fury, but yet another Fury that has nothing to do with those two?

And that Punisher... Is it Frank or a Punisher robot?

Originally posted by Bentley
So let me get this straight, this is not Nick Fury nor MJJ's Fury, but yet another Fury that has nothing to do with those two?

And that Punisher... Is it Frank or a Punisher robot?

It's MMJ's Fury that was resurrected as a result of M-Day. And a punisher bot of Galactus...on Galactus' worldship.

wtf...

Jaime Braddock created this Fury to combat the X-Men

Supes isn't winning here

Rachel Summers stopped it

oooo......

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well theres two problems with that.

1. Hes said perhaps.
2. Hes fought other heralds before and been able to hurt them.



Probably not looking at how he usually fights.

so he didn't engage in a h2h battle. gotcha.



happen to read any superman ones so you could compare the two and make an informed decision?



nobody on that team is even half as capable of bringing the kind of physical force to bear that superman can. even bishop was able to knock it off its feet and stun it.



again, from who? that team was: Logan, Rachel, Sage, Storm, Bishop, Kurt and Cannonball. Nobody renowned for outstanding strength and durability.



it still has to fight superman.



there's no proof it can become strong enough.

Originally posted by Raoul
so he didn't engage in a h2h battle. gotcha.


Cosmic blasts do physical damage and are just as powerful.

Originally posted by Raoul

happen to read any superman ones so you could compare the two and make an informed decision?

Yes I have actually. Ok thats the end of that. Its not my fault you're just gutted that I read the issues involved.


Originally posted by Raoul

nobody on that team is even half as capable of bringing the kind of physical force to bear that superman can. even bishop was able to knock it off its feet and stun it.

*sigh* Rachel Summers is telekinetic she was being amped by Sage she was capable of creating serious amounts of brute force but they resorted to the black hole because that was the best plan of attack.



Originally posted by Raoul

again, from who? that team was: Logan, Rachel, Sage, Storm, Bishop, Kurt and Cannonball. Nobody renowned for outstanding strength and durability.

Rachel Summers? She was being amped by Sage but resorted to the black hole because it was the best of plan of attack.

Originally posted by Raoul

it still has to fight superman.

Yeah of course

Originally posted by Raoul

there's no proof it can become strong enough.

Yes it is. Thats why they resorted to creating a black hole. Anyway a black hole does physical damage its just very powerful. The black hole was a manifestation of her telekinesis.

The point is moot anyway because a Punisher robot can withstand Supermans punches not indefintely of course but it The Fury aspect will just regenerate.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Cosmic blasts do physical damage and are just as powerful.

proof?



ermm



rachel's tk = superman's strength?



proof?

I'm about to post a new thread with a poll asking if PZ reads Superman comics. I'm leaning towards "No" right now.
































badawe

Originally posted by Raoul
proof?


Well Surfer was describing his attacks as blows and we see it doing physical damages its not 100% clear cut but theres a good chance it physical as well.


Originally posted by Raoul

rachel's tk = superman's strength?

I was under the impression that telekinesis does physical damages thats one of the reasons why it has kinesis on the end of it and thats why we see it being used to move people etc

Rachel is capable of forming telekinesis in the form of blasts but as I stated many times Sage was analysing the Fury for the best form of attack. The black hole was a manifestation of her telekinesis

Originally posted by Raoul

proof?

I think its highly unlikley that SS blasts were just energy based. Also The Punsiher robot was able to create a force field that Thing could not doing anything. Clearly Supeman is much stronger than Thing but if its strong enough for Thing to have no effect on it it can at leat hold if Superman for awhile.

Also the Fury aspect of it will make the Punsiher robot stronger anyway.

Originally posted by Badabing
I'm about to post a new thread with a poll asking if PZ reads Superman comics. I'm leaning towards "No" right now.



To be precise not many Superman comic but I have loads of JLA, Infinite Crisis etc.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
To be precise not many Superman comic but I have loads of JLA, Infinite Crisis etc.

that = superman? dur

team books/events =/= regular comics.

Originally posted by Raoul
that = superman? dur

team books/events =/= regular comics.


What so the hundred of showings that Superman has in JLA doesnt count? Thats like saying The Avengers cant teach you anything about Captain America. You're just looking for anything you can you use no matter how small.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
What so the hundred of showings that Superman has in JLA doesnt count? Thats like saying The Avengers cant teach you anything about Captain America. You're just looking for anything you can you use no matter how small.

that's like me using punisher crossover books rather than the actual regular punisher books.

regular books have more feats, more focus, and massively reduce any need for jobbing.

so, again, i say: dur

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
What so the hundred of showings that Superman has in JLA doesnt count?

superdur

The real Fury would murder Superman, simply because he can't do anything to it and it's basically Doomsday with a lower base form.

The Fury from Xmen recently, much like Jaspers, is a clone. We don't know who, but we know they were both clones. That Fury would get shitcanned by Superman easily.

Originally posted by Raoul
that's like me using punisher crossover books rather than the actual regular punisher books.

Actually the punisher crossovers arent that much different from the regualr comics, so thats not helping your argument, but hey any excuse.

Originally posted by Raoul

regular books have more feats, more focus, and massively reduce any need for jobbing.

so, again, i say: dur

You are probably exaggerating. Hell you even tried to say that SS was weakened when he fought The Punisher.

Captain America and Thor are not that much different from how they are in their regular comics no doubt if actually spent my hard earned cash on Superman comics it would probably be a waste of time.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Actually the punisher crossovers arent that much different from the regualr comics, so thats not helping your argument, but hey any excuse.



You are probably exaggerating. Hell you even tried to say that SS was weakened when he fought The Punisher.

Captain America and Thor are not that much different from how they are in their regular comics no doubt if actually spent my hard earned cash on Superman comics it would probably be a waste of time.

so how many nerves did i hit?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Actually the punisher crossovers arent that much different from the regualr comics, so thats not helping your argument, but hey any excuse.



You are probably exaggerating. Hell you even tried to say that SS was weakened when he fought The Punisher.

Captain America and Thor are not that much different from how they are in their regular comics no doubt if actually spent my hard earned cash on Superman comics it would probably be a waste of time.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
no doubt if actually spent my hard earned cash on Superman comics it would probably be a waste of time. Stop lying....you don't buy comics. duriroll


badawe

Originally posted by Phantom Zone


you missed the point. several in fact.

reading JLA and events does not paint a completely accurate version of superman, as any feat that you read could be contradicted by the regular books.

without reading the regular books, you're missing out on the tons of things he does every month.

this one better?

badawe

Originally posted by Raoul
you missed the point. several in fact.

reading JLA and events does not paint a completely accurate version of superman, as any feat that you read could be contradicted by the regular books.

without reading the regular books, you're missing out on the tons of things he does every month.

this one better?

badawe

No you're not getting it. I think you're lying. You're example of The Punisher isnt even true and there are other characters that are in teams that are not much difffernt in showings when they appear in their own individual issues. So I doubt that Superman would be much different.

Furthermore it seems to in this debate you just make excuses. Where did you get the idea that SS was weakened when fighting The Punisher? I aksed you that already and that seems completely fabricated.

Why is it you keep making the excuses that when The Xmen fought The team was not uber but forgetting that Rachel was ? Etc.

In other words based on how you debated you are probably exaggerating and if I bought the individual issues it probably wouldnt make much difference.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No you're not getting it. I think you're lying. You're example of The Punisher isnt even true and there are other characters that are in teams that are not much difffernt in showings when they appear in their own individual issues. So I doubt that Superman would be much different.

but how will you know unless you read them?

fact: the majority of superman's feats are in his own comics. jla isn't like other team books. 99% of jla is unlike other team books. you don't get one issue about superman and one about diana and one about wally, as they all have their own books, which you're supposed to read. jla is about the big bad, not the day to day of each character.



i read it from the scan.



rachel alone, that they had to amp, did what starman could do alone.



so gracious in defeat. i commend you, sir.

Originally posted by Raoul
but how will you know unless you read them?

fact: the majority of superman's feats are in his own comics. jla isn't like other team books. 99% of jla is unlike other team books. you don't get one issue about superman and one about diana and one about wally, as they all have their own books, which you're supposed to read. jla is about the big bad, not the day to day of each character.


Im well aware of that but I have been in debates with other posters who from instinct I have detected make excuses. Ive gone to the effort to read the issues concerned and it doesnt back up their case, hell ive even given other posters the heads up on specific posters and what ive said about them has held true. I cant see any difference from Batman in JLA and considering that I can think of lots of characters that are not much different in individual books than they are in the team. Why is Superman unique?

In other words you could be right but you're probably not. Im just taking your word for it and its not good enough. Im not spending my acsh on Superman comics just because you said so. Hell I bought IC and ID because I wanted to.




Originally posted by Raoul

i read it from the scan.

Give me a quote.


Originally posted by Raoul

rachel alone, that they had to amp, did what starman could do alone.



So what a sec the thread is Superman vs not Starman vs. How is that relevant?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I cant see any difference from Batman in JLA and considering that I can think of lots of characters that are not much different in individual books than they are in the team why is Superman unique.

facepalm

ugh3

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/2r5gvx4.gif

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/vghcb7.gif

Originally posted by Badabing

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/2r5gvx4.gif

That episode was hilarious

Originally posted by Raoul
he doesn't need it, imo. surfer said himself that because both are powered by galactus (in a sense), that surfer wasn't hurting him as much. if surfer was at full strength and able to hurt him, then i'd like to see what happens...

also, fury got beat by what was largely a second rate x-men team.

A weakened Fury.

And they opened a black hole inside him and combined that with the use of technology. Not a feat Superman can replicate.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Im well aware of that but I have been in debates with other posters who from instinct I have detected make excuses. Ive gone to the effort to read the issues concerned and it doesnt back up their case, hell ive even given other posters the heads up on specific posters and what ive said about them has held true.

such as?



that's the point. he's not. superman, batman, the flash, wonder woman, green lantern and black canary are all different in their solo books. and those are just examples.



i never told you to buy them.



Originally posted by Raoul
surfer says:

"My stoutest blows have no effect on him - perhaps because Galactus created us both, he is somehow immune to my blasts of power cosmic."

also, it isn't even specified if the surfer is throwing punches...



starman does on a regular basis what rachel had to be amped to do, and he's not on superman's level.

black holes just aren't that impressive to the higher up dc people, so they have to punch at a higher weight class than an amped rachel grey and a weak copy of the fury.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
A weakened Fury.

And they opened a black hole inside him and combined that with the use of technology. Not a feat Superman can replicate.

i never said he could. i said he wouldn't need to.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
A weakened Fury.

And they opened a black hole inside him and combined that with the use of technology. Not a feat Superman can replicate.

Thats exactly what I was thinking and unlike me he cant make the excuse you havent read enough Superman comics.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
The real Fury would murder Superman, simply because he can't do anything to it and it's basically Doomsday with a lower base form.

Doomsday can't completely reform in a second.

Fury's even more badass.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Thats exactly what I was thinking and unlike me he cant make the excuse you havent read enough Superman comics.

facepalm

Originally posted by Raoul
such as?



Im not going into a long speal about other posters and their debates here. No doubt you think im probably fobbing you off.

Originally posted by Raoul

that's the point. he's not. superman, batman, the flash, wonder woman, green lantern and black canary are all different in their solo books. and those are just examples.

I just stated to you that Batman isnt that much different, you then stated that he is. The point is I have the comics to justify this so in other words why should I trust you about Superman when the stuff I can verify doesnt back you up? I also stated this about other heroes as well. You completely missed the point.





Originally posted by Raoul

i never told you to buy them.

Forget it.



Originally posted by Raoul

starman does on a regular basis what rachel had to be amped to do, and he's not on superman's level.

Can Superman create a black hole? That sounds a bit ABCish.

Originally posted by Raoul

black holes just aren't that impressive to the higher up dc people, so they have to punch at a higher weight class than an amped rachel grey and a weak copy of the fury.

Unless Superman can create a black hole I dont see how hes beating The Fury. It could however be a stalemate.


P.S> I asked for an example where SS was weakened not an example of his powers not affecting him, thats not the same thing.

I mean for starters you stated that its common knwoledge that Ds is better tactically in h2h than Cap and its not, especially with the differing opinions in the thread im talking about. Why should I take anything you say when you keep stating stuff as fact which can be verffied as not being neccsarily true....good grief.

Sounds to me like you should make a The Punisher vs Annihilation wave and give him the powers of fury, with the power gem and Kang's technology.

Nah not really.

Stating that weak Fury/copy got beaten by a second rate team
is, a bit misleading imo, meaning ... it was no cake walk.

Sure, in the end it was beaten,
but it took them almost touching death in order to do so.

All those X-Men were getting stomped by that weak Fury/copy,
had it not been for detailed choreographed teamwork
with a freakin concentrated stellar black hole involved,
they would've all died soon enough.

Props to Rachel Summers

Is this thread referring to the same Fury that dispatched MJJ?

Mr. M. They are a 2nd rate team in comparison to Superman.

And as previously mentioned, a black hole is nothing to him, considering he's held one in his hands. No one is disputing that the Xmen worked hard and earned their win, but Supes is just in another league.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest

Mr. M. They are a 2nd rate team in comparison to Superman.
Perhaps, I'm not an expert on those characters,
but the move they pulled together, was not second rate imo.
Trick, they created a concentrated massive black hole,
that's enough to swallow entire stars and even galaxies given time.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest

And as previously mentioned, a black hole is nothing to him, considering he's held one in his hands.
I know Supes held a miniture black hole,
but a concetrated massive balck hole is much more from my understanding.

There are two types of black holes,
the absorption potency is quite different.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest

No one is disputing that the Xmen worked hard and earned their win,
but Supes is just in another league.
Cool,
but as far as Supes being able to take on all those X-Men, (including PF avatar Rachel)
hmm, I just don't know,
remember, Rachel stomped a hungry Galactus.

She did indeed

Put an ending to Necrom as well

Rachel vs Supes. My money is on Rachel

Originally posted by Mr Master
Stating that weak Fury/copy got beaten by a second rate team
is, a bit misleading imo, meaning ... it was no cake walk.

Sure, in the end it was beaten,
but it took them almost touching death in order to do so.

All those X-Men were getting stomped by that weak Fury/copy,
had it not been for detailed choreographed teamwork
with a freakin concentrated stellar black hole involved,
they would've all died soon enough.

Thats crap you need to read more Superman comics because it will somehow reveal Roauls point of view....oh no it wont.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Mr. M. They are a 2nd rate team in comparison to Superman.

And as previously mentioned, a black hole is nothing to him, considering he's held one in his hands. No one is disputing that the Xmen worked hard and earned their win, but Supes is just in another league.

good look dude, maybe they won't try to deflect your argument by making shit up...

Originally posted by Raoul
good look dude, maybe they won't try to deflect your argument by making shit up...

Maybe you should post the scans of Superman holding the black hole because Rachels one looked alot bigger.

http://img15.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=74379_xm-447-20_122_884lo.jpg

Also im not sure if holding a black hole is the same as being able to create one inside The Fury.

Hell Punisher Koed the Hulk by putting explosives in his stomache but on the outside it wouldnt work.

Also The Fury was weakened... apparently.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Mr. M. They are a 2nd rate team in comparison to Superman.

And as previously mentioned, a black hole is nothing to him, considering he's held one in his hands. No one is disputing that the Xmen worked hard and earned their win, but Supes is just in another league.

Too bad Superman can't copy Rachel Summer's powers or Sage's.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Maybe you should post the scans of Superman holding the black hole because Rachels one looked alot bigger.

http://img15.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=74379_xm-447-20_122_884lo.jpg

Also im not sure if holding a black hole is the same as being able to create one inside The Fury.

Hell Punisher Koed the Hulk by putting explosives in his stomache but on the outside it wouldnt work.

Also The Fury was weakened... apparently.

i never claimed, not once, that superman would or could create a black hole.

Originally posted by Raoul
i never claimed, not once, that superman would or could create a black hole.

*groan* I know you didn't.