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Sion is at full strength for each battle. All out.

Fisto
Darth Zannah
Ventress
Maul
Dooku

Loses to Fisto

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
Loses to Fisto

You're sure? given Sions physical state he should get past anyone who lacks the sheer power to make him respect them.

Originally posted by Allankles
You're sure? given Sions physical state he should get past anyone who lacks the sheer power to make him respect them. Then he's invincible unless convinced to die. What a terrible Deus ex Machina he'd make.

To get technical and break away from video-game mechanics, Sion will die in a lightsaber duel eventually, the blade's energy eventually reducing his biomass to ash. And we know next to nothing about his Force-prowess other than his pain thing and the same applies to his saber ability. KoooootOOOOR!!

In lieu of that, I'd say Kit kills him.

Sion vs Ventress - Sion
Sion vs Fisto - Sion due to his ability to tolerate pain
Sion vs Darth Maul - Maul because of his mastery of lightsaber
Sion vs Dooku - Dooku because of his superior mastery of the Force
Sion vs Zannah - Tie: Zannah would freak him out with her mastery of Sith Sorcery, but Sion can tolerate pain and mental torture to a certain degree.

Overall Sion, was a powerful, but not that powerful Sith Lord. He relied too much on the darkside to keep him living rather than being to fully capitalize it's power. The Exile lost round one to him on Korriban, but somewhat pawned him at Malachor. She used reverse psychology, not her physical or lightsaber abilities to defeat him.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I'm just gonna say it. Ready? You're stupid. There, I said it. Someone had to. Oh wait, everyone already knew it. Guess that was a waste.

How the hell do you think the Exile struck Sion down, what was it? 4 times? You think she just stabbed him ALL THE WAY THROUGH and just stood there like a dumbass? Slash the man's head or a limb off, and the flesh that was disintegrated by the blade, isn't coming back. Physics 101 you retard. There's nothing in KoTOR 2 or any of the comics I'm aware of that states that Sion can REGROW flesh, only HOLD together what is there.

WoW! This clearly says it all:
How the hell do you think the Exile struck Sion down, what was it? 4 times? You think she just stabbed him ALL THE WAY THROUGH and just stood there like a dumbass? You call me the stupid one. There are two many threads on Sion and info on him for me to call you ignorant of how he die. No it is you who are clearly stupid! Since you have made that clear I will leave you alone in your ignorance.

Good post Darth Truculent! Hopefully the Lord of ignorance and stupidity can learn how Sion died.

Originally posted by Kotor3
WoW! This clearly says it all:
You call me the stupid one.
Kotor, you really need to get better at trash talk. I'm not very good but even I can see that you are struggling. You haven't responded to Tangible's point, you haven't made a witty insult, and quite frankly, I am beginning to doubt that you are capable of doing either one. Do you have a rebuttal to the idea that Sion would eventually run out of biomass to hold together with the Force? I am asking you as someone that has disagreed with you without resorting to insults. (I think.) I honestly don't think that there is a response to this point, but if you have one please stop trying to insult us and stick to the argument for your next post. You can go back to flailing condemnations of Tangible as soon as you'd like, but please try to rebut the point. Again, I'm asking as someone who has, for the most part, maintained (at the very least) a thin veneer of civility towards you.

Originally posted by Kotor3

There are two many threads on Sion and info on him for me to call you ignorant of how he die. No it is you who are clearly stupid! Since you have made that clear I will leave you alone in your ignorance.
Tangible is anything but stupid, and his posts make it clear that he has, in fact, played through KotOR 2.
Originally posted by Kotor3

Good post Darth Truculent! Hopefully the Lord of ignorance and stupidity can learn how Sion died.
'Lord of ignorance and stupidity'? Is that really supposed to be clever? I truly mean you no disrespect when I say that you're struggling.

Kotor3, shut teh f-uck up plz.

I don't think the burden of proof lies with the one who says that Sion will die when losing his head, logic dictates that decapitation equals death. Or can he even survive a stab in the heart ? And no, don't say anything like "he will keep it together" when there is nothing to keep together. Unless it is proven that he can actually regenerate, which is going way too much in the DBZ area.

I don't think he is as immortal as he says to be. He was probably high on pain when he said that.

If Sion could regenerate then his skin/body would not look the way it does nor would his right side of the face look the way as bad as it does. But for the record he looks bad ass in TFU.

The KotOR II dialogue makes it explicitly clear that Sion can only revitalize himself on planets steeped in the dark side of the Force. If he gets killed elsewhere, he'll stay down.

Originally posted by Gideon
The KotOR II dialogue makes it explicitly clear that Sion can only revitalize himself on planets steeped in the dark side of the Force. If he gets killed elsewhere, he'll stay down.

It does?

If keeping himself intact required the presence of large amounts of latent Dark Side energy, then why didn't he fall apart when he was a Peragus? I mean just by the very nature of his body, he should be falling apart all the time, not just when someone hits him.

Originally posted by Autokrat
It does?

It does. Read his monologue to the Exile during their fight on Malachor.



I didn't say a strong dark side presence is required to keep his body in tact. I said it was required to revitalize himself after he's struck down.

Originally posted by Gideon
It does. Read his monologue to the Exile during their fight on Malachor.

I believe there is a similar quote on Korriban from Kreia to the Exile.

Sion appears in TFU?? Since when lol.

Originally posted by DorianYates
Sion appears in TFU?? Since when lol.

You have to download him for mp,here is a pic. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/2/29/Sion_TFU.jpg

Originally posted by Gideon
It does. Read his monologue to the Exile during their fight on Malachor.



I didn't say a strong dark side presence is required to keep his body in tact. I said it was required to revitalize himself after he's struck down.

Hm, I see what you mean, it had been awhile since I had played it. As for getting struck down, I guess to me that's a plot hole, by rights he should be falling apart whenever he so much as tries to move. I guess to me, getting hit wouldn't make a huge difference when he is already in pieces.

I always thought he looked like the Thing.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Sion vs Ventress - Sion
Sion vs Fisto - Sion due to his ability to tolerate pain
Sion vs Darth Maul - Maul because of his mastery of lightsaber
Sion vs Dooku - Dooku because of his superior mastery of the Force
Sion vs Zannah - Tie: Zannah would freak him out with her mastery of Sith Sorcery, but Sion can tolerate pain and mental torture to a certain degree.

Overall Sion, was a powerful, but not that powerful Sith Lord. He relied too much on the darkside to keep him living rather than being to fully capitalize it's power. The Exile lost round one to him on Korriban, but somewhat pawned him at Malachor. She used reverse psychology, not her physical or lightsaber abilities to defeat him.

Firstly, I'll give a big 'No' in response to your 'Sions vs Ventress - Sion'.

Secondly, I'll give another, but bigger, 'NO' to the second part of your post.

Sion realized he would never be able to defeat the Exile. In case you don't remember, you (as the Exile) knock the shit out the rotting corpse, like, what? Four times in a row? Three? And only then, the idiot realized he's too effin' weak to defeat her. Before that, he just basically said all she was saying is bullshit.

Yeah, effective use of reverse psychology right there.

The Exile struck him down four times yes, but he regenerated himself. The Exile convinced him to let go of his hatred and give up the Force. If you forget, The Exile survived ten years without the Force and the Force was the only thing that kept Sion alive.

Ventress wasn't strong in the Force, just a very very good lightsaber artist. Sion would have pawned her easily.

LOL.

How did he "regenerate" himself truculent? Where was it stated?

We don't know how exactly he was "defeated" each time thanks to the gameplay mechanics.

Hell going by that i guess vrook can "regenerate" because his health bar keeps popping back to full everytime he "gets struck down".

^ Gameplay nuh uh.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
The Exile struck him down four times yes, but he regenerated himself. The Exile convinced him to let go of his hatred and give up the Force. If you forget, The Exile survived ten years without the Force and the Force was the only thing that kept Sion alive.

Ventress wasn't strong in the Force, just a very very good lightsaber artist. Sion would have pawned her easily.

Ventress was pretty strong in the force. She was great with tk.

Ventress didn't fully develop her Force abilities like Maul. She was just a very good lightsaber artist - like Maul. Besides, she was only a Sith minion - not a true Sith.

When did Maul "fully develop" his Force abilites?

And when did the title of Sith start to matter in a versus scenario?

Originally posted by Publius II
When did Maul "fully develop" his Force abilites?

And when did the title of Sith start to matter in a versus scenario?

Maybe he misplaced a comma:

"Ventress didn't fully develop her Force abilities, like Maul." It's wordy but sounds like the sort of comparison DT would try to make.

The title started to affect vs. fights when Caedus "FAILD TO BCUM TEH SITH LORDZ" and thus was proven inferior to Revan. Didn't you get the memo?

Meh.

And for the record, the TDK quote is "why so serious?" There's no "son," as you and Crimzon CLAYME.

fk7R_6xqkKw
"Why so serious son?"

1:12

It is kind of indistinct but it is the only word that makes sense within the context. Suck it! ()

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Ventress didn't fully develop her Force abilities like Maul. She was just a very good lightsaber artist - like Maul. Besides, she was only a Sith minion - not a true Sith.

Well she almost managed to crush a powerful jedi master's heart. She also tore massive chunks from a roof with the force. She had the basics pretty down packed. Yoda even stated she was strong, but not as strong as he.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
fk7R_6xqkKw
"Why so serious son?"

1:12

It is kind of indistinct but it is the only word that makes sense within the context. Suck it! () I'm sorry, all I hear is an elongated "s". Like "serious-suh."

It's hard to write.

I'll be damned. The script doesn't have 'son' in it at all. It was just Heath Ledger (SP?) being an actor. (You know what I mean.)

My bad. MC, I guess you're wrong.

I told you that weeks ago, jackarse.

Just because you are strong in the Force doesn't mean you're all powerful. A senior padawan can tear down massive rocks.
Galen Marek, although not a true Sith or Jedi pulled a SD to the ground. He was far stronger than Ventress, but I'm getting off topic.

Okay, Ventress nearly did kill a Master, but failed because she hadn't fully developed her skills. Maul killed a Master because of his superior ability with the lightsaber and teras kasi martial arts. Ventress may have been strong in the Force, but was not fully trained.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Just because you are strong in the Force doesn't mean you're all powerful. A senior padawan can tear down massive rocks.
Galen Marek, although not a true Sith or Jedi pulled a SD to the ground. He was far stronger than Ventress, but I'm getting off topic.Surprise!

Ventress had killed seventeen Jedi as of DR; Padawans, Knights, and Masters. Maul killed... two?

Damn, really? Seventeen? Shitez.

Yeah. 17.

She's underrated.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Just because you are strong in the Force doesn't mean you're all powerful. A senior padawan can tear down massive rocks.
Galen Marek, although not a true Sith or Jedi pulled a SD to the ground. He was far stronger than Ventress, but I'm getting off topic. What point are you trying to make? You said Ventress was not that strong in the force, and i pointed out where you were wrong. Ventress was both strong and skilled in the force.

Yet she was stronger than some "fully trained" Jedi masters. She also demonstrated more combat skill with the force than Sion.

friggin dooku

Ventress may have been stronger than some Jedi Masters, but she got her ass kicked my Mace, then Padawan Skywalker and Yoda. Imagine if she faced Revan or Malak? What if she faced Galen Marek? NJO Anakin Solo or LoTF Luke or Caedus? She would be pawned!

Darth Truculent.. have u noticed that the people you just stated are in similar leagues with Yoda, Dooks, palpy, vader, nihilus, etc.

of course she would get pwned lol

You put Nihilus in there, why?

isn't nihilus above vader, and below palpy?

or at least thats what I have been influenced to believe.

Originally posted by kotorfan
isn't nihilus above vader, and below palpy?

or at least thats what I have been influenced to believe. In terms of what?

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Ventress may have been stronger than some Jedi Masters, but she got her ass kicked my Mace, then Padawan Skywalker and Yoda. Imagine if she faced Revan or Malak? What if she faced Galen Marek? NJO Anakin Solo or LoTF Luke or Caedus? She would be pawned!
Mace, Padawan Skywalker and Yoda are all beasts by any definition of the word. Pitting her against top-tier combatants won't make her less deadly against Sion (who is most definitely not top-tier).



Originally posted by Lord Lucien
In terms of what?
TK. At least, that is what we have established him to be superior in. He might be good at guitar too...

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Then he's invincible unless convinced to die. What a terrible Deus ex Machina he'd make.

To get technical and break away from video-game mechanics, Sion will die in a lightsaber duel eventually, the blade's energy eventually reducing his biomass to ash. And we know next to nothing about his Force-prowess other than his pain thing and the same applies to his saber ability. KoooootOOOOR!!

In lieu of that, I'd say Kit kills him.

That's assuming that Sion doesn't have blade skills of his own. A blow that would be fatal to most, is not for Sion. So if Kit nailed him with a glancing blow or even managed to strike his torso, Sion can land his blow to kill Fisto just as he lands his.

The Exile had previous experience with Sion and that helped. Kit wouldn't have the same experience and if he dallies after landing a blow, Sion can still strike him since he lacks the physical vulnerabilities that would stop most people dead in their tracks.

Originally posted by Allankles
That's assuming that Sion doesn't have blade skills of his own. A blow that would be fatal to most, is not for Sion. So if Kit nailed him with a glancing blow or even managed to strike his torso, Sion can land his blow to kill Fisto just as he lands his.
And Kit is going to drop his guard right after he scores a glancing hit because... why?

Originally posted by Allankles

The Exile had previous experience with Sion and that helped.
Not on Korriban she didn't.
Originally posted by Allankles

Kit wouldn't have the same experience
He'd have the same amount as the Exile did on Korriban.
Originally posted by Allankles

and if he dallies after landing a blow,
Since when have Jedi been known for 'dallying'?
Originally posted by Allankles
Sion can still strike him since he lacks the physical vulnerabilities that would stop most people dead in their tracks.
If he gets his arm chopped off, his arm still falls off. If he gets bisected (a la Darth Maul) he still falls into two pieces.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Since when have Jedi been known for 'dallying'?Every SW movie ever. Darth Maul (Sith, but it stands) in TPM, Anakin and Dooku in AotC, ****ing everybody in RotS (Kit included), Obi-Wan in ANH, and Vader in ESB and RotJ (intentional).

So... yeah. EU characters are invulnerable to cinematic PIS, so they all win.

Edit: 6,666! (posts)

I don't think Kit would let his guard down at all. A halfway decent lightsaber artist wouldn't let their guard down until the fight was over.

Originally posted by Publius II
Every SW movie ever.
PIS...

Originally posted by Publius II

Darth Maul (Sith, but it stands) in TPM,

That is confirmed PIS, so get that SH*T outa here. BIATCH. (Or something. You get the point.)

Originally posted by Publius II

Anakin and Dooku in AotC,
During their duel the two have a brief moment where they disengage. That isn't letting down their guard. That is them taking a short breather to reflect on their opponent's defenses. Haven't you ever watched a boxing match? It's like that.

Originally posted by Publius II

****ing everybody in RotS (Kit included),
Those people weren't in duels/combat with the clones and you know it. This is a weak example. During a one on one combat situation Kit's attention will be focused on the Sion. Unless the OP would like to ammend the situation to include a 'fought together (with unquestioning loyalty) to save a galaxy spanning government for years' clause in the Kit/Sion relationship, this simply won't work.

Originally posted by Publius II

Obi-Wan in ANH,
Was done intentionally to give Luke/Leia/Han time to escape from Vader. Also: PIS.

Originally posted by Publius II

and Vader in ESB and RotJ (intentional).
k

Originally posted by Publius II

So... yeah. EU characters are invulnerable to cinematic PIS, so they all win.
Or not.







































































I had thought that you were serious until I got to here. Sweet baby Yahwe I'm dumb.
Originally posted by Publius II

Edit: 6,666! (posts)

This should be 2076 for me.

You disturb me sometimes.

Edit:

This is wrong, anyway. Anakin visibly pauses with his arm extended before Dooku relieves him of it, and the Count earlier pauses before swinging his lightsaber down to finish off Obi-Wan. They "dallied."

Had you read the post before responding to it, you would've known I was being facetious, assmunch.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis

And Kit is going to drop his guard right after he scores a glancing hit because... why?

Who said anything about dropping his guard? Sion (I would imagine) could employ a kamikaze tactic. Fight evenly, show an opening to deliberately open up your opponent and then strike as the opponent moves to impale or land a blow. Decapitations or even removal of limbs might be a side effect, but Kit won't know Sion is a virtual immortal in their first encounter.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis

Not on Korriban she didn't.


She had the benefit of Kreia telling her to escape while she could.
Fisto wouldn't have the same luck.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Since when have Jedi been known for 'dallying'?

Dallying could mean a brief pose. Anyway, dallying wouldn't be necessary if Sion simply used an effective kamikaze tactic.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
If he gets his arm chopped off, his arm still falls off. If he gets bisected (a la Darth Maul) he still falls into two pieces.

I'd assume this is possible for Sion but I believe his body is already in pieces and being kept together by the dark side. I doubt he can be cut to pieces like other people simply because his body was broken to pieces several times and then reconstituted by Sion, it was probably done to make him invulnerable to some degree.

Do we have any sources to corroborate Sion's skills with a lightsaber? We already know that Fisto is regarded as a "celebrated swordsmaster"

Who single-handedly overpowered General Grievous, no less.

Was it really 'single-handedly', though?

Technically, he could pull a Kenpachi(the fight with tousen, the blind dude) and kill most of everybody here.

Except, ironically enough, Kitty.

Zannah power looked like the Fear power and not even particularly advanced, that being said, given that using the force in the middle of a fight seemed much more prevalent during Sion's time it's much more likely he'd been trained to resist such sad mockery of Sith magic.

Dooku would probably be able to convince him to die( you're an antique, blah blah blah whatever)

Maul gets killed in some brutal pragmatic manner with Sion using his ability function even with injuries enough to kill almost anyone else ten times over.

Ventress is a good warm-up, kinda like a Blood startin shit with a Spetnaz...Seriously, I've seen the Kotor hate but come on WTF!?

Seems more like 'PT hate & illogical thinking'.

Originally posted by Invictus Legio
Technically, he could pull a Kenpachi(the fight with tousen, the blind dude) and kill most of everybody here.

Except, ironically enough, Kitty.
I don't know what these words mean. A quick Google search reveals some sort of anime character, but you can't have meant him. I know this because of one of the seventeen fundamental truths of the internet: Anime sucks.

Originally posted by Invictus Legio

Zannah power looked like the Fear power and not even particularly advanced, that being said, given that using the force in the middle of a fight seemed much more prevalent during Sion's time it's much more likely he'd been trained to resist such sad mockery of Sith magic.
Could you explain why it didn't look 'particularly advanced' and your basis for calling it a 'sad mockery of Sith magic'?

Using the Force during a fight was more common (prevalent) during Sion's time? In a comparison between opportunities to use offensive Force powers, the Ruusan era Sith and Jedi come out on top. They are in more frequent contact with enemy Force users than combatants during KotOR 2's time period. On top of that, we have established cases of Zannah's teacher (Bane) using a defense against enemy Force attacks. It is likely that he taught Zannah this power. Kreia (Sion's teacher?) hasn't been shown to do this, nor has Sion. There is no indication that Sion would be able to defend himself from Force attacks.

Originally posted by Invictus Legio

Dooku would probably be able to convince him to die( you're an antique, blah blah blah whatever)
k

Originally posted by Invictus Legio

Maul gets killed in some brutal pragmatic manner with Sion using his ability function even with injuries enough to kill almost anyone else ten times over.
Ignoring PIS, why would Maul (an absurdly talented swordsman) get killed by Sion (who hasn't got any saber Feats to speak of) or even be given a challenge?
Originally posted by Invictus Legio

Ventress is a good warm-up, kinda like a Blood startin shit with a Spetnaz...Seriously, I've seen the Kotor hate but come on WTF!?

Ventress is a warm up? Are you cereal? She has a greater mastery of the Force (as evidenced by her having mastery over the Force) and is an exceptionally talented duelist. She had killed ~17 Jedi (maybe?) before the conclusion of the Clone Wars and gave Skywalker fits in some of their duels.

There is nothing to suggest that Sion could overcome any of these foes, let alone an upper tier combatant like Maul.

By era I meant the Great Sith war through the Fall of the Triumvirate.

You Kenpachi and you will find some very badass things.

TA-FVKIN-DA

Still, not SW related, so w/e.

Hell yes anime sucks and is overrated(except a few).

Only 3m0 g@y's and g@ls watch them!

It's shows a viable tactic for someone like Sion...

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Ventress may have been stronger than some Jedi Masters, but she got her ass kicked my Mace, then Padawan Skywalker and Yoda. Imagine if she faced Revan or Malak? What if she faced Galen Marek? NJO Anakin Solo or LoTF Luke or Caedus? She would be pawned!

Ventress was badass only guys on Yoda's level could punk her, and yes Dooku at his best was in that Yoda ballpark. Malak and Revan would find it difficult going to beat Ventress, she's tiers above Bastila or Bandon imo.

Originally posted by Invictus Legio
It's shows a viable tactic for someone like Sion...

It is. Vader impaled his own body to kill the Maul clone the prophets of the dark side had made.

Sion would be extremely dangerous given his physical invulnerability. He could probably lose a limb or a hand but with his power, he wouldn't be concerned about physical injury.

Meaning he could probably pull off kamaze kills if his opponent lacks the necessary force power to simply overpower him and avoid a close quarters duel.

I could see him fighting Maul or Fisto, getting impaled and then casually maiming his opponent fatally with his own saber.

Originally posted by Allankles
Ventress was badass only guys on Yoda's level could punk her, and yes Dooku at his best was in that Yoda ballpark. Malak and Revan would find it difficult going to beat Ventress, she's tiers above Bastila or Bandon imo.

If you fine Revan and Exar Kun on the same level than Ventress would be punk by Revan also. Revan only had issues with an SF Malak when he lost his memory.

Originally posted by Allankles
It is. Vader impaled his own body to kill the Maul clone the prophets of the dark side had made.

Sion would be extremely dangerous given his physical invulnerability. He could probably lose a limb or a hand but with his power, he wouldn't be concerned about physical injury.

Meaning he could probably pull off kamaze kills if his opponent lacks the necessary force power to simply overpower him and avoid a close quarters duel.

I could see him fighting Maul or Fisto, getting impaled and then casually maiming his opponent fatally with his own saber. Unless of course that wound coincides with his losing his lightsaber. Or if his opponent isn't dumb enough to put themselves in reach of the grasp of a zombie. Seriously. If you saw a living mummy wielding a lightsaber, would you let guard your down just because of one blow?

Originally posted by Cpt. Valerian
Was it really 'single-handedly', though? Yes.

!. That should count as discontinuity, that whole version of the CW is against canon. The original fitted perfectly and showed a viable tactic and form for Grievous making sure we understood why he was badass.

2.Have you forgotten that Sion could headbutt his ass?

3.This new series seems to want to put everybody at top tier and the awesomeness of the original Ventress has been completely lost.

4.Kamikaze attacks could be avoided with powerful(not precise) enough TK.

Sorry Allankles, Ventress would not stand a chance against Revan or Malak. Ventress didn't survive Malachor, she didn't have the collected knowledge of the ancient Sith, she didn't know some of the ancient Sith rituals - Revan would overpower her. He's just too strong in the Force. After all, Revan is counted to be among one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history! Ventress wouldn't even come close damn it!

I'm probably going to be accused of being a fanboy of Revan now. Revan destroyed the Sith on Korriban - who did Ventress defeat? She couldn't handle Mace or Skywalker and Skywalker wasn't even at full potential! Revan was upper tier and Ventress would never even come close to beating him.

The man speaks the truth.



Revan > Ventress should never be called Fanboyism.

Only upper tier Masters of the Old Republic would be able to deal with someone like Revan or Malak. Upper tier Masters like Luke or Kyp series would have the power to fight one of them single-handedly.

So yeah, Ventress would be pawned by Revan or Malak.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Only upper tier Masters of the Old Republic would be able to deal with someone like Revan or Malak. Upper tier Masters like Luke or Kyp series would have the power to fight one of them single-handedly.

So yeah, Ventress would be pawned by Revan or Malak.

First of all I don't consider Revan and Malak on Yoda or Dooku's level. So yeah, they beat Ventress but Ventress would make them sweat their asses of for that victory, that is what I'm saying. She was a tier above most Jedi Masters and almost equals with Obi Wan.

She had formidable lightsaber skills demonstrated by even landing a glancing blow on Anakin's face in lightsaber duel.

Originally posted by Kotor3
If you fine Revan and Exar Kun on the same level than Ventress would be punk by Revan also. Revan only had issues with an SF Malak when he lost his memory.

Actually it was stated in a synopsis that Malak would surpass Revan given time, as his powers in the dark side were only beginning to grow.

Also, Malak stated that Revan had grown stronger in the force as of Kotor 1. Which makes sense, as Revan had gone through the greatest tribulation of his life up to that point.

Which synopsis was this?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Or if his opponent isn't dumb enough to put themselves in reach of the grasp of a zombie. Seriously. If you saw a living mummy wielding a lightsaber, would you let guard your down just because of one blow?

Said Zombie has a lightsaber of his own, if his opponent can impale him or land a blow so can Sion at the same instance. It is a kamikaze tactic.

I read once somewhere that certain warriors would apply such tactics if they felt they were overmatched, and so using a kamikaze ensured that they'd land a blow. Except in this case, Sion would still be alive.

The Exile benefited from having Kreia tell her to run away in their first encounter, Fisto wouldn't have such luck.

As you can tell I like Sion, and part of the reason for that is that he comes off as being brutally pragmatic.

Originally posted by Allankles
Said Zombie has a lightsaber of his own, if his opponent can impale him or land a blow so can Sion at the same instance. It is a kamikaze tactic.

I read once somewhere that certain warriors would apply such tactics if they felt they were overmatched, and so using a kamikaze ensured that they'd land a blow. Except in this case, Sion would still be alive.

The Exile benefited from having Kreia tell her to run away in their first encounter, Fisto wouldn't have such luck.

As you can tell I like Sion, and part of the reason for that is that he comes off as being brutally pragmatic. I'm saying that if his opponent lops off the hand holding his saber--that's it he's done. And just because he executed a kamikaze attack doesn't mean it will automatically work (this issue is especially relevant here given the the myriad of techniques, powers, skills and mindsets involved in all the possible opponents).



And to say again, what synopsis?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Which synopsis was this?

It was a guide to Kotor 1, I remember reading it before I even picked up the game. It seems Malak get's sorely underestimated in comparison to Revan. Malak was a fledging Sith Lord, he had only started to come into his own in the darkside by Kotor 1.

Originally posted by Allankles
It was a guide to Kotor 1, I remember reading it before I even picked up the game. It seems Malak get's sorely underestimated in comparison to Revan. Malak was a fledging Sith Lord, he had only started to come into his own in the darkside by Kotor 1. A guide to the game featuring character descriptions? Do they count as canon?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I'm saying that if his opponent lops off the hand holding his saber--that's it he's done. And just because he executed a kamikaze attack doesn't mean it will automatically work (this issue is especially relevant here given the the myriad of techniques, powers, skills and mindsets involved in all the possible opponents).


It's all ifs, Sion has a significan't edge regardless, with his physical immortality. Unless said opponent can immobilize him permananetly before he get's to them via kamakaze.

And the synopsis was in a guide to Kotor 1, approved by lucas arts and bioware. I believe it was the prima guide, in the character bio section.

No, he's pragmatically brutal, get it right.

No.Just.God.Damn.It.NOOOOOOOOOOO
Revan and Malak were far more school in the darkside and force powers, that being said, she would have an awe inspiring sight had she been trained by a true sith beyond the level of padawan. Most of her moves were rough and unrefined but she made this up with raw talent and helluva lot of rage.

However, in an actual fight either Malak lays some beat down or he could do that whirlwind thing and slice and dice, or Revan fries her to a damn crisp.

Unfortunately, she never actually recieved much training and suffers because of it.

Who's "she"?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
A guide to the game featuring character descriptions? Do they count as canon?

As far as the game's canon goes, yeah. And as I said, I read it before I ever even played Kotor 1, so I had the sense - even before the inaccurate chronicles - that Malak was fledging Sith only coming into his full potential by Kotor 1.

Originally posted by Allankles
As far as the game's canon goes, yeah. And as I said, I read it before I ever even played Kotor 1, so I had the sense - even before the inaccurate chronicles - that Malak was fledging Sith only coming into his full potential by Kotor 1. Lol wait... if Malak was coming to his full potential in KoTOR 1... and Revan beat him in KoTOR 1...

You're going to need to source and quote that, because 1.) It sounds absurd, and 2.) The closest I've heard to that was the Databank comparing Malak to his apprentice, Bandon.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Who's "she"? Assaj "Sexy Sith" Ventress

Originally posted by Invictus Legio
No, he's pragmatically brutal, get it right.

No.Just.God.Damn.It.NOOOOOOOOOOO
Revan and Malak were far more school in the darkside and force powers, that being said, she would have an awe inspiring sight had she been trained by a true sith beyond the level of padawan. Most of her moves were rough and unrefined but she made this up with raw talent and helluva lot of rage.

However, in an actual fight either Malak lays some beat down or he could do that whirlwind thing and slice and dice, or Revan fries her to a damn crisp.

Unfortunately, she never actually recieved much training and suffers because of it.

You mean Ventress? She was fully trained in the Jedi arts and got some training from Dooku. And yes I already know she was very gifted. The clone wars animated series (the 1st) and comics highlight this.

And you're using game mechanics, those don't count.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Lol wait... if Malak was coming to his full potential in KoTOR 1... and Revan beat him in KoTOR 1...

Malak was an experienced Jedi, but hs experience in the Sith arts was less than 3 years old by the time he deposed Revan at the start of Kotor 1.

Originally posted by Allankles
Malak was an experienced Jedi, but hs experience in the Sith arts was less than 3 years old by the time he deposed Revan at the start of Kotor 1. But then again, wasn't Revan?

Here is an question for you Allankles, could Ventress rule the Sith back in the time of Kotor?

Originally posted by Publius II
You're going to need to source and quote that, because 1.) It sounds absurd, and 2.) The closest I've heard to that was the Databank comparing Malak to his apprentice, Bandon.

There's a mention of this in the chronicles. That Revan has to stop Malak before his former apprentice's power becomes too great.

Quote?

Apparently, his fears were unfounded.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Here is an question for you Allankles, could Ventress rule the Sith back in the time of Kotor?

Doubt it.

As a warrior, she could probably whack sabers with the best of them, but to quote a certain Galactic Emperor: " was a moderately capable Force user. No more, no less."

Last time you posted that quote, it said "a competent warrior."

And if we take a peek at the Republic arc and the CWC, her Force-power becomes rather impressive.

Originally posted by Publius II
Last time you posted that quote, it said "a competent warrior."

And if we take a peek at the Republic arc and the CWC, her Force-power becomes rather impressive.

I was wrong twice.

It says "an occasionally capable warrior, nothing more, nothing less."

Dumbass.

And I was kidding when I said you were less of a dumbass than Borby. The man is super multilingual.

Originally posted by Publius II
Dumbass.

And I was kidding when I said you were less of a dumbass than Borby. The man is super multilingual.

"Borby"?

You're an idiot.

*Crosses fingers*

Edit snipe edit snipe edit snipe...


please?

What?

Originally posted by Gideon
"Borby"?

You're an idiot. No invictus legiro says borby so now i say borby n dont be jealous that he learns more lanugages you ar in ketucky after all

and edits snipe, dont be an dumbass red nemesis

My name means Invincible Legion...

Thx for using mah shite.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Here is an question for you Allankles, could Ventress rule the Sith back in the time of Kotor?

What does that have to do with what I said? I don't think she could rule since its not really part of her personality. She would certainly be among the best together with Revan and the others.

Originally posted by Publius II
Quote?

"Revan vows to slay his ex-apprentice before Malak's power becomes too great."

Revan and Ventress would make a interesting couple and the babies would be freaking scary as hell.

Malak and Ventress would be a str8 up abusive relationship with one raping the other interchangebly yet they seem far more compatible.

Originally posted by Allankles
"Revan vows to slay his ex-apprentice before Malak's power becomes too great." That's not really a commentary on Malak's guaranteed power, more of a commentary on Revan's fear of Malak's potential power. That doesn't mean he'll be MORE powerful than Revan, just that he'd certainly be a threat. Revan wouldn't want to wait to find out.

Originally posted by Allankles
What does that have to do with what I said? I don't think she could rule since its not really part of her personality. She would certainly be among the best together with Revan and the others.

Your statement answered the question. The fact that you think it is not part of her personality and that she has the power to do so is Hilarious!

Revan force rapes Ventress and then takes Bastila on a honeymoon.

That is a little strange. Being the best in the Sith kinda entitles you to rule. Doesn't mean everyone's gonna be loyal...

Originally posted by Kotor3
Revan force rapes Ventress and then takes Bastila on a honeymoon.

Who in their right mind would rape Ventress?

That is why the force is a wonderful technique. It involves no touching.

But still why Ventress? There are other better looking female characters.

Revan by far is far stronger than Ventress hands down. How many times do I have to state this? Ventress was not as strong in the darkside much less the Force. In a straight Force battle, Ventress would shit her pants. Come on think - did she survive Malachor? Nope. Did she destroy the Sith on Korriban? Nope. Did she complete the Clone Wars? Nope. Everytime she faced an upper tier Force user - she got pawned or ran. She is by far outclassed by an upper tier Force user.

She would give Revan a good run for his money in a lightsaber duel, but Revan's superior Force mastery would overpower her. Also he knows the ancient Sith rituals that were so very destructive. Bane even refused to use them except the thought bomb. Gideon has more knowledge about Force mastery than I do. Ventress was little more a pawn on a galactic wide chess board. She wasn't Sith - just a minion.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Revan by far is far stronger than Ventress hands down. How many times do I have to state this?You can "state" it all you want. Go ahead and prove it now.

The CWC, TWC, and all other Clone Wars-era EU calls bullshit.

Did Revan take over a planet of warlords as a relatively untrained teenager with nothing more than his wits and a pair of lightsabers? Nope.

Neither did Revan...

If by "complete" you mean "survive," then yes, she did.

She faced three "upper-tier" individuals; she fought Dooku and Mace in the first year or so of the war, when she had already proven herself Anakin Skywalker's equal.

Prove that Revan is as powerful as Dooku or Yoda and you'll have a case.

Prove that those rituals are relevant to an immediate combat scenario, then prove that Revan was willing to use all of them himself.

Gideon would point out that you make no sense.

Which, again, means jack ****ing shit. You've made an absurd habit of spouting irrelevant garbage in every damn post you make. Cut it out.

Originally posted by Publius II
Did Revan take over a planet of warlords as a relatively untrained teenager with nothing more than his wits and a pair of lightsabers? Nope.

Did Ventress defeat a warrior race called the Mandalorians? Rule the Sith? Affect the thinking and teachings of future siths? Have the option to rule the galaxy and walk away from it? Control by himself an ancient machine so strong in the darkside that it corruptted a whole race and led to its down fall? Defeat an Sith Lord powered by the Star Forge? Undefeated in single combat? Nope!

Originally posted by Kotor3
Did Ventress defeat a warrior race called the Mandalorians? Rule the Sith? Affect the thinking and teachings of future siths? Have the option to rule the galaxy and walk away from it? Control by himself an ancient machine so strong in the darkside that it corruptted a whole race and led to its down fall? Defeat an Sith Lord powered by the Star Forge? Undefeated in single combat? Nope! Relevance is good.

Only three of those could qualify as feats relevant to combat. His legacy doesn't matter, his political machinations and tactical prowess don't matter, and the option of "ruling the galaxy" doesn't matter. Controlling the Star Forge is impressive, but it was a feat replicated by his apprentice, Malak, who doesn't appear to be extraordinarily talented in the grand scheme of the saga. Defeating said ex-apprentice in personal combat aboard the station is very impressive, but Revan being "undefeated" when he apparently dueled only a handful of individuals who would be notable in other eras - two or three of whom were incapable of using the Force - doesn't mean all that much. The only people who've bested Ventress are Yoda, Mace Windu, Count Dooku, General Grievous - when he had surprise and fear on his side- Obi-Wan Kenobi - although they very much went back and forth - and Anakin Skywalker, who was forced to succumb to his rage in order to regain the upper-hand against her in both of their non-TCW duels.

Those are all some of the greatest combatants in their era, and most are some of the best in all of canon. Malak, Bastila, Bandon, Calo Nord, Yusanis, and Mandalore are all impressive enough, but they don't even remotely compare. The only one among them that I can see having a shot at besting Ventress is Malak, and he'd probably need the Star Forge to pull that off.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Did Ventress defeat a warrior race called the Mandalorians? Rule the Sith? Affect the thinking and teachings of future siths? Have the option to rule the galaxy and walk away from it? Control by himself an ancient machine so strong in the darkside that it corruptted a whole race and led to its down fall? Defeat an Sith Lord powered by the Star Forge? Undefeated in single combat? Nope! Revan didn't defeat the Mandalorians single handedly. I'm tired of people citing that war as testament to his martial prowess.

Ventress never got a chance to rule the Sith, now did she?

"Walking away" from ruling the galaxy is not a good quality AS A SITH.

Revan planned to STOP using the Star Forge for just the reason you cited.

Ventress never had the chance to fight someone powered by the Star Forge, did she?

Being undefeated is great on your resume, but Revan didn't face the PT Jedi, did he?

You were completely ninja'd.

That said, I didn't think of these:

Originally posted by Publius II
Relevance is good.

Only three of those could qualify as feats relevant to combat. His legacy doesn't matter, his political machinations and tactical prowess don't matter, and the option of "ruling the galaxy" doesn't matter. Controlling the Star Forge is impressive, but it was a feat replicated by his apprentice, Malak, who doesn't appear to be extraordinarily talented in the grand scheme of the saga. Defeating said ex-apprentice in personal combat aboard the station is very impressive, but Revan being "undefeated" when he apparently dueled only a handful of individuals who would be notable in other eras - two or three of whom were incapable of using the Force - doesn't mean all that much. The only people who've bested Ventress are Yoda, Mace Windu, Count Dooku, General Grievous - when he had surprise and fear on his side- Obi-Wan Kenobi - although they very much went back and forth - and Anakin Skywalker, who was forced to succumb to his rage in order to regain the upper-hand against her in both of their non-TCW duels.

Those are all some of the greatest combatants in their era, and most are some of the best in all of canon. Malak, Bastila, Bandon, Calo Nord, Yusanis, and Mandalore are all impressive enough, but they don't even remotely compare. The only one among them that I can see having a shot at besting Ventress is Malak, and he'd probably need the Star Forge to pull that off.

You made very good comments and I am not joking. However I know that you are well verse on Revan especially with all the threads on him. If you are actually saying that Ventress is in his category then I do not have any comments for you. At least until you are serious.

He's an unknown; he doesn't belong in any category yet.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Your statement answered the question. The fact that you think it is not part of her personality and that she has the power to do so is Hilarious!

Revan force rapes Ventress and then takes Bastila on a honeymoon.

Right? Except you have zero evidence for why Revan would rape her. I think she would push the top force users in Kotor to the max in a duel if not beat them outright. You'd have to rely on assumptions like Revan being on Yoda or Dooku's level force powerwise to have him rape her.

Originally posted by Allankles
Right? Except you have zero evidence for why Revan would rape her. I think she would push the top force users in Kotor to the max in a duel if not beat them outright. You'd have to rely on assumptions like Revan being on Yoda or Dooku's level force powerwise to have him rape her.

Ok, Allankles. let us do this little by little. Ventress was not a fully trained Jedi or Sith. So please tell me what Ventress force mastery equates to?

Also something to note everyone of the names that was mention that went against Ventress won.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
That is a little strange. Being the best in the Sith kinda entitles you to rule. Doesn't mean everyone's gonna be loyal...

If you read the comics to see how she survived the Clone Wars, she wasn't as concerned about ruling the Sith. Her initial enmity with the Jedi stemmed from believing that the Jedi had abandoned her master on a despotic world where war was currency.

She wasn't without a conscious, or principles like loyalty, once she saw the depths of evil within the dark side she turned away.

Originally posted by Kotor3
The evidence is all around. You just do not want to acknowledge it. Not my fault. Ok, Allankles, let us do this little by little. Ventress was not a fully trained Jedi or Sith. So please tell me what Ventress force mastery equates to?

Also something to note everyone of the names that was mention that went against Ventress won.

Christ, are you Bioware's champion here?

PT & OT > KotOR.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Ok, Allankles. let us do this little by little. Ventress was not a fully trained Jedi or Sith. So please tell me what Ventress force mastery equates to?

Also something to note everyone of the names that was mention that went against Ventress won.

She was fully trained in the Jedi arts her master for a large part of her life was full fledged Jedi. She horned her skills in a despotic world where some of the most dangerous life forms in the galaxy did battle constantly, she got further training from Dooku where she was his primary apprentice throughout the clone wars (going by the comics) and turned her back from the darkside because of the same Dooku.

Originally posted by Allankles
She was fully trained in the Jedi arts her master for a large part of her life was full fledged Jedi. She horned her skills in a despotic world where some of the most dangerous life forms in the galaxy did battle constantly, she got further training from Dooku where she was his primary apprentice throughout the clone wars (going by the comics) and turned her back from the darkside because of the same Dooku.

Could you verfiy that stated that Ventress was fully trained? I thought her master die before fully training her especially in terms of anger management. Teaching from Dooku, how much? You still have not answered the question. The fact is she was skilled with the saber not so much in the force department.

Not one thing you mention about her is special.

Originally posted by Gideon
Christ, are you Bioware's champion here?

PT & OT > KotOR.

Correction Revan's champion! What does that statement have to do with individuals? On a individual basis that statement holds for Sidious and Yoda, any other name you want to pull out of the hat you have to prove.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Correction Revan's champion! What does that statement have to do with individuals? On a individual basis that statement holds for Sidious and Yoda, any other name you want to pull out of the hat you have to prove. PT Padawans>KoTOR Padawans. PT Knights>KoTOR Knights. PT Masters>KoTOR Masters.

Ventress>17 (I think) PT Masters. Ventress=KoTOR Masters (at the least). Revan=Unknown. Ventress=Well known. Can you do this math, it isn't hard.

Talking to you is like quoting Shakespeare to a Hershey bar.

Surprise, you missed the point entirely.

Those six people are the only ones who have ever bested her. Mace, Grievous, and Dooku beat her when she was comparatively inexperienced, Anakin won only when he tapped into his rage, and Obi-Wan only forced her to flee once under his own skill; the rest of the time, he either lost, ran away, or survived due to outside interference.

Revan killed three prominent non-Force-sensitives, defeated Bandon and Bastila - who were both easily Malak's inferior - and overcame Malak on the Star Forge. The only one of those characters who might be able to take Ventress in combat is SF Malak, and even that's a stretch.

Yeah, Ventress is a beast.


Btw, thanks for the promotion. About time.

You have done well.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Could you verfiy that stated that Ventress was fully trained? I thought her master die before fully training her especially in terms of anger management. Teaching from Dooku, how much? You still have not answered the question. The fact is she was skilled with the saber not so much in the force department.

Not one thing you mention about her is special.

Her Master was teaching her the Jedi arts in a war torn world he hadn't taught her to master her emotions with the lightside, her training combatwise was intense, as she and her master were often in battles against the war lords and their warriors. If you watched the clone wars she's a fully trained Jedi on her homeworld.

Her force powers were fairly advanced too, with her TK being well above average. Dooku taught her of the dark side although he never inducted her into the Sith order proper.

And thank God he didn't. There would be something off-putting about Darth Ventress.

Originally posted by Publius II
Revan killed three prominent non-Force-sensitives,
Who were namely:

1. Mandalore - The Ultimate (One who could put a Jedi on his @ss with a single attack and most powerful Mandalore in his time.)

2. Yusanis (One of the greatest echani swordsmen in SW History and with highly advanced battle precognition to help him in combat. Also, undefeated in combat until of-course he decided to challenge Revan.)

3. Calo Nord (The most powerful and feared Bounty Hunter of his time. Well known for slaughtering hundreds of foes in combat.)

Yeah! Only Revan destroyed them in combat.

Originally posted by Publius II
defeated Bandon and Bastila - who were both easily Malak's inferior -
Darth Bandon (Powerful in the Force and killed many Jedi. Knew some advanced Sith techniques like: Force Lightning and Death Field. It has been speculated that he had the potential to challenge his Master for the position of the DLOTS.)

Bastilla Shan (A promising Jedi and an able fighter. Nominated as the leader of the Jedi Strike Team, which boarded Revan' Flagship. The Jedi Council believed that she was skilled enough to take on the challenges that lay ahead for her and Revan during the Jedi Civil War. And when she became a Sith Lord, according to her, she became more powerful than all but few Jedi Masters.)

Originally posted by Publius II
and overcame Malak on the Star Forge.
A Dark Lord of the Sith (The strongest among the Sith of his Empire) who was aided by a Super-weapon to make him even more powerful and harder to kill. And Revan defeated him even after engaging in battles against hordes of Sith warriors, Battle Drioids and Elite Soldiers.

Originally posted by Publius II
The only one of those characters who might be able to take Ventress in combat is SF Malak, and even that's a stretch.
She is good. But not so DAMN GOOD.

Revan is better.

Originally posted by Publius II
Surprise, you missed the point entirely.

Those six people are the only ones who have ever bested her. Mace, Grievous, and Dooku beat her when she was comparatively inexperienced, Anakin won only when he tapped into his rage, and Obi-Wan only forced her to flee once under his own skill; the rest of the time, he either lost, ran away, or survived due to outside interference.

Revan killed three prominent non-Force-sensitives, defeated Bandon and Bastila - who were both easily Malak's inferior - and overcame Malak on the Star Forge. The only one of those characters who might be able to take Ventress in combat is SF Malak, and even that's a stretch.

Of course I missed the point according to you. Unless you can prove that Ventress can compete with Revan in a force battle your points are irrlevant.

Revan continues to force rape Ventress for fun!

Originally posted by Allankles
Her Master was teaching her the Jedi arts in a war torn world he hadn't taught her to master her emotions with the lightside, her training combatwise was intense, as she and her master were often in battles against the war lords and their warriors. If you watched the clone wars she's a fully trained Jedi on her homeworld.

Her force powers were fairly advanced too, with her TK being well above average. Dooku taught her of the dark side although he never inducted her into the Sith order proper.

Once again you are answering the question yourself. Ventress is not known for her force Mastery or abilities. She had to you use her sabers aganist Anakin's pupil.

Yes Ventress has killed Jedi Masters and so have droids.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Once again you are answering the question yourself. Ventress is not known for her force Mastery or abilities. She had to you use her sabers aganist Anakin's pupil.

Yes Ventress has killed Jedi Masters and so have droids.

Her force powers are well above average, I don't know where you get the idea she had little force mastery. Her applications of both force speed and TK were more potent and advanced than most Jedi Masters.

So she certainly mastered the force to a considerable degree. She couldn't much the raw power of Anakin or the mastery of Yoda, but only a handful could.

Even Mace admits he's not nearly as strong in the force as Anakin, in Shatterpoint and his force powers - as we know - are considerable.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
1. Mandalore - The Ultimate (One who could put a Jedi on his @ss with a single attackProve it.

The only Mandalore of his time.

Prove it.

So a weaker Jango Fett? The guy who a pre-CW Obi-Wan was able to overcome?

Please.

No one cares.

Ventress killed seventeen.

So he's on par with a Nightsister?

Prove it.

Potential means jack shit here.

Sure, take at face value the self-evaluation of a Dark Jedi who, even when aligned with the Order, was considered headstrong and brash.

And considering Malak was clearly capable of overcoming her without any additional assistance, I'm not too impressed.

I already noted this.

Prove it.

Prove it.

WTF?

There's no evidence for Revan being an indomitable Force-user. None. I've been remarkably lenient with you people in the past, but it's time to prove up or shut up.

Prove it!

Originally posted by Allankles
Her force powers are well above average, I don't know where you get the idea she had little force mastery. Her applications of both force speed and TK were more potent and advanced than most Jedi Masters.

So she certainly mastered the force to a considerable degree. She couldn't much the raw power of Anakin or the mastery of Yoda, but only a handful could.

Even Mace admits he's not nearly as strong in the force as Anakin, in Shatterpoint and his force powers - as we know - are considerable.

You do know that only Mace and Yoda could go up against Sidious. Anakin was stronger but Mace because of his mastery of the force was more powerful at the time of ROTS. Anakin had yet learned out to act upon his strength.

QUOTE=11584384]Originally posted by Publius II
There's no evidence for Revan being an indomitable Force-user. None. Who does have that evidence?

Simply put, since I know you already know about Revan what exactly are you looking for as evidence? Or is your argument Revan is an unknown so should not be included in threads? If so there is no need to keep discussing this.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Who does have that evidence?Clearly not you, which is the entire point; you have no backing for any of your claims, so stop making them.

Originally posted by Publius II
Clearly not you, which is the entire point; you have no backing for any of your claims, so stop making them.

It does not seem like my statement was clear, so I will rephrase: Which force user has proven to be indomitable? I can't think of one unless you say Luke Skywalker when he reach his peak. In Revan's era in terms of straight one on one combat he was indomitable.

If Revan was alive, active in combat, and undefeated in the PT-era, that would be relevant. He wasn't, so it isn't.

And for the record, your original statement was this:

I asked you to prove it, you didn't, Legend threw in a retarded argument, you implied that you don't have any evidence establishing that Revan was a superior Force-user to Ventress, I told you that was the point. There was nothing unclear here, so don't try to backpedal.

Revan is an unknown, you have no case, drop it.

Actually, Faunus, in fairness: Mandalore the Ultimate put a Jedi Knight-namely Malak when he was young- on his rear end with one strike.

Originally posted by Publius II
If Revan was alive, active in combat, and undefeated in the PT-era, that would be relevant. He wasn't, so it isn't.

And for the record, your original statement was this:

I asked you to prove it, you didn't, Legend threw in a retarded argument, you implied that you don't have any evidence establishing that Revan was a superior Force-user to Ventress, I told you that was the point. There was nothing unclear here, so don't try to backpedal.

Revan is an unknown, you have no case, drop it.

Whatever Faunus. Don't tell me what I implied or meant when I said you did not understand my statement correctly. I do not have to meantion anything about Revan because it has already been done one hundred times within this forum. Revan was superior to everyone in his day. If you are saying that Ventress is superior to Revan then you are saying that everyone in the Kotor era was lest than Ventress.

Only Sidious and Yoda can make that claim about any era. You prove that Ventress had the power to do what Revan did.

Why is it that when people argue for Revan they mention the lesser combat feats like Calo, Yusanis and Mandalore?

Seriously, any half decent Jedi would take those guys out, unless they were ambushed or just overwhelmed with blasters or other high powered weapons.

Defeating Non-force sensitives (for the most part) is not impressive, unless they are monsters like Durge, Grievous et al.

Hell even Magna Guards are more physically imposing than non-force sensitive humans. Imagine Boba or Jango fighting a Magna guard in close quarters, with no jet packs and only melee weapons? Even with blasters, in that scenario it'd still only be about 50/50.

I like how you say this as though it disproves Faunus's point. Your earnestness amuses me.

Not 50/50. It's Jango and Boba you're talking about. They most probably would find a way to destroy the machine using only melee weapons.

But yeah, I get your point.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Whatever Faunus. Don't tell me what I implied or meant when I said you did not understand my statement correctly.You sound like S66 now.

You made a claim: "Revan rape Ventress with the Force for fun!"

I told you to prove it: "Prove it!"

You said that since it had already been proven you don't need to . You then asked "Who does have ?" That is a clear indicator that you do not have any concrete evidence necessary to make objective claims about the character's ability in a versus scenario. Therefore, you have no case.

No one has ever proven a damn thing about Revan's ability with the Force. Not once. That's why all of the intelligent people continuously label him an "unknown" and insist that he not be used in the versus forum, because we don't know what he's capable of.

See RN's response.

Don't try to be a smartass with me, kotor. I've been ridiculously patient with you considering the garbage you've thrown my away. Get back to me when you've learned how to form a coherent argument. Until then, shut up and don't waste my time.

@Lightsnake: Jango Fett beating several Jedi Knights senseless with his bare hands, defeating the Dark Jedi Komari Vosa in personal combat, killing a Jedi Master of the High Council with three shots of his blaster, and escaping a melee confrontation with Obi-Wan - whom Ventress would quickly outmatch in their first encounter - sort of take the steam out of that one.