Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

When Hal Jordan came back as the main Green Lantern, Kyle Rayner got kicked to the curb and demoted to being just one of thousands of Green Lanterns in the comic 'GLC Corps'.

Now with Flash: Rebirth being introduced in April, Wally West is now also suffering Kyle's fate. Demotion. Getting a new costume (which I guarantee will be yellow....) and a new name (since he obviously CAN'T be Flash anymore....) he's probably gonna be put on the back-burner in Judd Winick's god-awful Titans comic.


Poor Kyle and Wally have experienced enormous regression. From having their own comics, to being prominent members of the JLA to being cannonfodder in crappy team-books that nobody reads....

The dumbing down of Wally West was already apparent in Final Crisis. He's clearly showing being slower and behind Barry Allen the entire time. Forget the fact that Wally has clearly surpassed his former mentor in every single way.

Stupid old farts who can't let past be past....


http://scifipedia.scifi.com/images/thumb/c/c8/Kyle-rayner_1.jpg/280px-Kyle-rayner_1.jpg

http://www.ifanboy.com/images/ifanboy/Flash-WallyWest.jpg

Me? I came.

Just wait.Whoever wins battle for the cowl will eventually be joining their ranks in a few years.

Originally posted by Draco69
When Hal Jordan came back as the main Green Lantern, Kyle Rayner got kicked to the curb and demoted to being just one of thousands of Green Lanterns in the comic 'GLC Corps'.

Now with Flash: Rebirth being introduced in April, Wally West is now also suffering Kyle's fate. Demotion. Getting a new costume (which I guarantee will be yellow....) and a new name (since he obviously CAN'T be Flash anymore....) he's probably gonna be put on the back-burner in Judd Winick's god-awful Titans comic.


Poor Kyle and Wally have experienced enormous regression. From having their own comics, to being prominent members of the JLA to being cannonfodder in crappy team-books that nobody reads....

The dumbing down of Wally West was already apparent in Final Crisis. He's clearly showing being slower and behind Barry Allen the entire time. Forget the fact that Wally has clearly surpassed his former mentor in every single way.

Stupid old farts who can't let past be past....

Forget the fact that Wally was able to outrun death, which Barry seemed pretty impressed with. Seems to me like Barry doesn't have any problems being the second fastest man in the world. Unlike his predecessors, Barry doesn't need constant validation that he's the man......he just is.

Wally's retiring anyways.

Ill agree that Wally seems going that route but not Kyle. All GLs are law officials and they have to go were they are needed. Pluse he didnt get demoted at all. After Hal came back, Kyle got to become Ion which was a better version of the GL. Even though that didn't last for long, he was promoted to an Honor Guard. Plus he and Guy are the main guys at GLC book, so is not like he is forgotten.

Old. It's been established that Didio and Johns are silver age loving pieces of garbage.

Old is Gold

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Ill agree that Wally seems going that route but not Kyle. All GLs are law officials and they have to go were they are needed. Pluse he didnt get demoted at all. After Hal came back, Kyle got to become Ion which was a better version of the GL. Even though that didn't last for long, he was promoted to an Honor Guard. Plus he and Guy are the main guys at GLC book, so is not like he is forgotten.

Kyle and Guy are prominent in GLC, yes but they've all but lost their supporting characters, story direction and personal life that was apparent in their own comics.

Kyle has apparently forgot his entire supporting cast....

Originally posted by Kris Blaze


Wally's retiring anyways.


Wally's not retiring. He's going to be thrust into the backburner as a supporting character for Barry. He'll get a new costume and will probably be renamed "Twenty-Something Flash"....

Originally posted by Vally Doosh
Old. It's been established that Didio and Johns are silver age loving pieces of garbage.


Didio and Johns have pretty much annihilated any character that has appeared after the 70s. If a DC character was introduced in the 80s or 90s than he or she will either be killed off, left in limbo, replaced, or entirely forgotten.

Pretty much why ridiculous amounts of Teen Titans have been killed since many of them were introduced in the 80s or 90s.

Another victim; Linda Danvers:

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/9897/supergirlzc1.png

Originally posted by Draco69
Another victim; Linda Danvers:

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/9897/supergirlzc1.png

I know I haven't forgotten her . . .

Originally posted by Vally Doosh
Old. It's been established that Didio and Johns are silver age loving pieces of garbage.

Sounds to me like you didn't get enough penis for breakfast ahah

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Sounds to me like you didn't get enough penis for breakfast ahah





Breakfast.....

Originally posted by Vally Doosh
Old. It's been established that Didio and Johns are silver age loving pieces of garbage.

Co-signed.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Ill agree that Wally seems going that route but not Kyle. All GLs are law officials and they have to go were they are needed. Pluse he didnt get demoted at all. After Hal came back, Kyle got to become Ion which was a better version of the GL. Even though that didn't last for long, he was promoted to an Honor Guard. Plus he and Guy are the main guys at GLC book, so is not like he is forgotten.
That's only in theory. Whenever Kyle or Guy team up with Hal, they defer to him for instruction. The fact that they both outrank Hal makes that fact even more pathetic than it would be. It's like a Police Captain taking orders from a Sergeant.

DC has shown they have no idea how to or simply don't want to show characters being the equal of one of their beloved Silver Age idols. And by showing it, I mean more than lip service.

Really, the only time they got it right with Kyle was that page in Ion #6 I believe when the entire GLC stood at attention as he walked by.

I lol'd when Dan Didio wanted to calm down Wally fans, by saying that he will get the same treatment Kyle has gotten, once Barry is back.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Just wait.Whoever wins battle for the cowl will eventually be joining their ranks in a few years.
Nightwing has been in limbo for years. Nothing new there.

While I think Kyle was (and still is) a great character with a good "arc" of development; I mean, he went from being utterly clueless to being comfortable as "sole Green Lantern" to growing confident in his own title and in Morrison's JLA (Solaris, anyone?), to bringing back the Corps; so, I'll agree that him being put on the back burner in favor of Hal does bother me; Johns, when he uses him, writes him as if he's ignoring the past thirteen or so years of character development.

But, Wally, on the other, has been a consistently boring, static, and bland character. Other than his friendship with Kyle (again, in the Morrison/Waid/Millar era of JLA), he's just been a placeholder, an empty suit. At least Bart had personality. Wally is just generally serious and uninteresting, and consistently overshadowed, whether it's unconsciously on the part of the writers (the mega-personalities of the JLA) or deliberately (putting his kids in the forefront of his own title). He had some good issues back in the '90s, but for the most part, he's just generally an uninteresting character.

I think that having Barry back may actually make Wally more interesting by giving him someone to contrast against; with Bart as a foil, Wally had no choice but to be put into the role of "serious guy," in order to contrast with the unconstrained Bart.

So, basically, I agree with you about the mistreatment and demotion of Kyle, but I have hopes that this might actually make a good change for Wally; force him to be his own character.

Originally posted by Draco69


Now with Flash: Rebirth being introduced in April, Wally West is now also suffering Kyle's fate. Demotion. Getting a new costume (which I guarantee will be yellow....) and a new name (since he obviously CAN'T be Flash anymore....) he's probably gonna be put on the back-burner in Judd Winick's god-awful Titans comic.




What's wrong with the titans, I'm actually enjoying the run so far. To be honest, i like it better than the JSA. I know people will disagree with me, but i like the fact that the group works as a family. Although they argue like the JSA and JLA. They consider each other their equal and respect one another although they have their differences.

Anyways, Hal >> Kyle.. I have no problem there, because I grew up watching the superfriends lol... However, I agree with you on the Flash situation. I prefer Wally over Barry and day. Wally is a like-able character who I've ground to respect and admire. I hope he isn't killed or dumb down as you said.

me personally a demotion is what wally deserves right now...for me i just got sick of him having to save his kids or wife from something or another every single issue for like every arc since theyve been back... totally meh....Barry is cool, hell my dad's name is Barry....Barack's childhood nickname was Barry...i wouldnt mind hearing some flash facts again, not all this emo'ing about if he should quit becuase of his family

Originally posted by manjaro
me personally a demotion is what wally deserves right now...for me i just got sick of him having to save his kids or wife from something or another every single issue for like every arc since theyve been back... totally meh....Barry is cool, hell my dad's name is Barry....Barack's childhood nickname was Barry...i wouldnt mind hearing some flash facts again, not all this emo'ing about if he should quit becuase of his family

Agreed. Plus, look how popular all those crime-shows like CSI and such are. Police detective Flash might actually be popular- make the Flash one of the biggies of the DC Universe again, rather than continually forgotten. I mean, sweet-ass SCIENCE Flash versus Wally, who every single issue is trying to figure out of he wants to remain the Flash? No contest.

Again, I think that having Barry back in the DC Universe might make Wally more interesting.

You guys aren't realizing that Barry coming back is exactly why Wally's book is in the shape it's in right now. They're half assing it with Wally because Barry is right around the corner.

Originally posted by Vally Doosh
You guys aren't realizing that Barry coming back is exactly why Wally's book is in the shape it's in right now. They're half assing it with Wally because Barry is right around the corner.

yeah, that's true. wally's been pretty much half assed since he got back...

Originally posted by Vally Doosh
You guys aren't realizing that Barry coming back is exactly why Wally's book is in the shape it's in right now. They're half assing it with Wally because Barry is right around the corner.

Maybe. But then again, I've never really liked Wally.

Has anyone read the Flash: Rebirth preview on Newarama? :

http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=25815#comments


DEAR. LORD. I have not seen such character worship in years.

Barry made Jay the Flash?

Barry made the JSA?

Barry's a better mentor than any superhero in DC?

I highly recommend everyone get tested for STD's if they decide to get Flash: Rebirth. It's going to be absolutely soaked with Geoff John's cum-wank fanboy worship.....

Originally posted by Draco69

I highly recommend everyone get tested for STD's if they decide to get Flash: Rebirth. It's going to be absolutely soaked with Geoff John's cum-wank fanboy worship.....
Lawl.

Originally posted by Vally Doosh
Lawl.

Did you know Barry Allen introduced Bruce Wayne's parents?

And did you know that Barry Allen convinced Clark Kent to go to Metropolis?

And Diana would never have become Wonder Woman if Barry Allen didn't train her in Amazon combat...

I have to admit, I liked the Detective Comics preview a lot more.

Originally posted by Draco69
Barry made Jay the Flash?

Lulz. Also, people don't get to eat until Barry is there. That's right if he wants Barry can starve the world to death 313

Kris was onto something when he was saying that Barry is the greatest, even before his return.

Originally posted by Draco69
Has anyone read the Flash: Rebirth preview on Newarama? :

http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=25815#comments


DEAR. LORD. I have not seen such character worship in years.

Barry made Jay the Flash?

Barry made the JSA?

Barry's a better mentor than any superhero in DC?

I highly recommend everyone get tested for STD's if they decide to get Flash: Rebirth. It's going to be absolutely soaked with Geoff John's cum-wank fanboy worship.....

I defy you to come up with a better mentor than Barry Allen!

And you can't say Alan Scott.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I defy you to come up with a better mentor than Barry Allen!

And you can't say Alan Scott.
Because correct answers are not allowed?

Originally posted by Vally Doosh
Because correct answers are not allowed?

Alan Scott is vastly superior to anyone by default.

And as of now, so is Barry.

Rebirth: 1....

Is unbelievably, miraculously mediocre.

"OH my god! Remember how it used to be a running joke in the Silver Age that Barry Allen was always late? Now he's not." That's the entire issue. Oh, and Barry bashing on Green Arrow for some reason.

Another quick thing: I generally don't mind when people break with continuinity, if it serves the story. However, Johns just utterly ignores a HUGE part of Bart Allen's character in this story. Bart WORSHIPED Barry- he was obsessed with him. When they met in Infinite Crisis (which Johns himself wrote...) Bart practically burst into tears when he saw his Grandpa. Unless Johns gives a legitimate reason why Bart suddenly hates him (OTHER than the fact that some other members of Bart's family are stuck in the speed force) it just rings false.

Originally posted by Aztec123


Anyways, Hal >> Kyle.. You're a fool and you will always be one. uhuh

When Savitar came back and then died instantly it felt like a total kick in the teeth. Curious about who the villain is. The set up didn't particularly grab me but I'd like to see the plot develop.

Originally posted by tjcoady
Rebirth: 1....

Is unbelievably, miraculously mediocre.

"OH my god! Remember how it used to be a running joke in the Silver Age that Barry Allen was always late? Now he's not." That's the entire issue. Oh, and Barry bashing on Green Arrow for some reason.

Another quick thing: I generally don't mind when people break with continuinity, if it serves the story. However, Johns just utterly ignores a HUGE part of Bart Allen's character in this story. Bart WORSHIPED Barry- he was obsessed with him. When they met in Infinite Crisis (which Johns himself wrote...) Bart practically burst into tears when he saw his Grandpa. Unless Johns gives a legitimate reason why Bart suddenly hates him (OTHER than the fact that some other members of Bart's family are stuck in the speed force) it just rings false.

Wait...isn't Bart currently in the 31st Century making Superman Prime scream like a little girl? If so then how the $%# did he get back to the 21st Century so fast? What did he like make Sueprman Prime faint for five seconds and then said "Well...I just learned that my Grandpa returned from the dead so I am gonna go back to the 21st Century and be a total jerk towards him, 'kay? Oh...and good luck with Superman Prime, you'll need it. See ya!"

Originally posted by Prime
Wait...isn't Bart currently in the 31st Century making Superman Prime scream like a little girl? If so then how the $%# did he get back to the 21st Century so fast? What did he like make Sueprman Prime faint for five seconds and then said "Well...I just learned that my Grandpa returned from the dead so I am gonna go back to the 21st Century and be a total jerk towards him, 'kay? Oh...and good luck with Superman Prime, you'll need it. See ya!"

Time travel doesn't work that way.

Barry's back, eat dust haters!

Originally posted by tjcoady
Rebirth: 1....

Is unbelievably, miraculously mediocre.

"OH my god! Remember how it used to be a running joke in the Silver Age that Barry Allen was always late? Now he's not." That's the entire issue. Oh, and Barry bashing on Green Arrow for some reason.

Another quick thing: I generally don't mind when people break with continuinity, if it serves the story. However, Johns just utterly ignores a HUGE part of Bart Allen's character in this story. Bart WORSHIPED Barry- he was obsessed with him. When they met in Infinite Crisis (which Johns himself wrote...) Bart practically burst into tears when he saw his Grandpa. Unless Johns gives a legitimate reason why Bart suddenly hates him (OTHER than the fact that some other members of Bart's family are stuck in the speed force) it just rings false.

You don't think Johns plans on elaborating?

At least Bart is back, he's the greatest Flash.

That was the most boring comic I've read since last month's Green Lantern. Johns is awful.

I basically just skipped around when reading it.

Pretty cool how Savitar lasted a whole 2 pages

Originally posted by Mindset
I basically just skipped around when reading it.

Pretty cool how Savitar lasted a whole 2 pages

Barry is the new Black Flash. I'm calling it right now.

Originally posted by Vally Doosh
That was the most boring comic I've read since last month's Green Lantern. Johns is awful.


Originally posted by Vally Doosh
I bailed when Johns left. I knew it wouldn't be near the same.


Did it hurt that much when he left you?

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Barry's back, eat dust haters!



You don't think Johns plans on elaborating?

No, I completey trust Johns. He's said some crazy things and then provided reasons for them in the past.... but, in combination with this and the most recent issue of JSA I feel like he is losing his touch.

Unless you are an utter Johns-fanboy (and there are plenty of them on these forums), then it's easy to recognize how much he's stolen from Morrison... and it's clear that he's stolen this recent idea from G-more without embelleshing on it.... I have full faith that he will provide an awesome story from here, I just don't see how he will do it.

just read it. to say that it was underwhelming would be an understatement. just... did nothing for me.

i will admit, though, that van sciver draws one of the best wally wests i've ever seen...

hoping it kicks off in issue 2.

Originally posted by Vally Doosh
That was the most boring comic I've read since last month's Green Lantern. Johns is awful. Well, it's tough to be as impressive as Chicago's offseason pickups.

Johns is awesome, btw.

Originally posted by tjcoady
No, I completey trust Johns. He's said some crazy things and then provided reasons for them in the past.... but, in combination with this and the most recent issue of JSA I feel like he is losing his touch.

Unless you are an utter Johns-fanboy (and there are plenty of them on these forums), then it's easy to recognize how much he's stolen from Morrison... and it's clear that he's stolen this recent idea from G-more without embelleshing on it.... I have full faith that he will provide an awesome story from here, I just don't see how he will do it.

I'll admit to say that the latest JSA was lacking, to say the least. Ever since Magog ended, the comic's been heading downhill. I still think it's good, but nothing more than just average good....

Let's hope this won't happen to Flash:Origins. Art is great.

I was definitely disapointed. I think the problem is the story is too forced. Wally returning, then barry, now bart and hes a kid again no less.

Originally posted by HueyFreeman
I was definitely disapointed. I think the problem is the story is too forced. Wally returning, then barry, now bart and hes a kid again no less.

To be honest, I never really liked Bart aging. He's too much of a contemporary of Robin, Wonder Girl, and Superboy, and has too much of a history with the Titans and Young Justice for me to like him older. It just feels like he loses his place.

The Titans aren't really kids anymore though. The core group of Robin, Wonder Girl, Bart and Superboy should be about 18 now. For comparison, Wally was around 19 when he replaced Barry.

Originally posted by Vally Doosh
The Titans aren't really kids anymore though. The core group of Robin, Wonder Girl, Bart and Superboy should be about 18 now. For comparison, Wally was around 19 when he replaced Barry.

Tim and Cassie are Juniors in High School.

Originally posted by tjcoady
Tim and Cassie are Juniors in High School.
Tim and Cassie were 17 last year. I remember it being said somewhere.

Oh well.

so, I read the title of the thread, and I knew it'd be filled with alot of val bitching. I got about half way down the second page when it was like, "who cares?" Oh, bee tee dub, Barry and Hal > Wally and Kyle.

Originally posted by Mindset
At least Bart is back, he's the greatest Flash.

Originally posted by Mindset
You're right, kyle is a fool and will always be one. uhuh I'm glad you agree.

After watching this:

-43pf1tWLuw

i'm not as worried as i used to be. still worried, but not nearly as much as i was...

It's looking good to me so far.

Barry is turning into the new black flash. Kind of predictable, but I still like it.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
It's looking good to me so far.

Barry is turning into the new black flash. Kind of predictable, but I still like it.

oh, so that's how it is. uhuh

Originally posted by Raoul
oh, so that's how it is. uhuh

You have the coolest sign ever, can we be friends??

i wont be surprised if theres gona be a batman rebirth.eveybodys been shat out of the womb lately and being rebirthed again and again.

Originally posted by Aztec123
You have the coolest sign ever, can we be friends??



Originally posted by dj slade
i wont be surprised if theres gona be a batman rebirth.eveybodys been shat out of the womb lately and being rebirthed again and again.

i think johns said this was it... though you never know with didio...

Any idea of what realy happend to batman? Awesome sign.

He was teleported into the past.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
He was teleported into the past.

Not necessarily. There's a strong possibility he's on Kamandi's world, or somewhere else within the Multiverse. When Darkseid Omega-Beamed Sunny Sumo, he got shot into the past, but others have been transported to different universes.

Originally posted by tjcoady
Not necessarily. There's a strong possibility he's on Kamandi's world, or somewhere else within the Multiverse. When Darkseid Omega-Beamed Sunny Sumo, he got shot into the past, but others have been transported to different universes.

Then what about Anthro?

i'm pretty sure it was our Earth. Why write symbols on the walls, then, if not to alert future heroes that he's still alive?

I always wanted Hal and Barry to return but now that Wally and Kyle are being put behind them again I...well I almost miss them being dead...almost.

I like that we have Hal around, though Kyle is the main character in several GLC arcs. Even now, his relationship with Natu is poised to become a big deal because of a) the new law in the book of Oa, and b) the revelation about her origin.

The person really getting screwed over, imo, is John Stewart. Johns seems to be intent on giving him more of a role closer to Blackest Night, but still...

Wally = Flash, though. At least for me.

I mean, Hal was dead since 1994, and came back in 2004. A decade. Barry'd been dead TWICE as long. Plus, Hal's a Green Lantern. You can get away with two or three GL comics every month side by side. You can't do that with Flash, imo. I wouldn't mind seeing them try, but i'd just wonder how difficult it would be to do successfully.

Thank God both Barry and Hal are back. I was sick of these 90s characters polluting the images of GL and Flash.

(okay, I will be nice...Wally was okay as Flash)

Now, if only DC could fix that mess of Aquaman....mmm

Originally posted by WhoopeeDee
Now, if only DC could fix that mess of Aquaman....mmm

You might wanna steer away from Blackest Night then...

I like teh 70s! I say Welcome Back! ( Kotter!)

Originally posted by Draco69
Kyle Rayner got kicked to the curb and demoted to being just one of thousands of Green Lanterns in the comic 'GLC Corps'.



Same thing thats going to happen to Guy.

Cos he sucks!

Originally posted by Geoff Johns
A Kyle Rayner devotee expressed displeasure with Hal Jordan coming back, specifically because the fan liked the artist aspect of Kyle. "For me, Green Lantern has always been about overcoming fear," Johns said. "I think we can all relate to fear better than drawing a big rocket ship."

I lol'd.