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Who would be the most deadly in a long range battle? Assume that they have to fight an entire battle being 1km apart from their opponent (they can never get closer to their opponent).

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Superman

Black Bolt

Thor

Silver Surfer

Hal Jordan

Firestorm

SS or Hal

Surfer or Hal.

Thor and the bolt have great power output, they're not as creative when it comes to using their ranged powers.

I'd think Superman has got to get some votes too

he has the best vision among them: distance and x-ray

he could see you no matter how far you are or what rock you're hiding under

and his heat vision (at high intensity) would be an almost instantaneous sniping kill

Originally posted by Starscream M
I'd think Superman has got to get some votes too

he has the best vision among them: distance and x-ray

he could see you no matter how far you are or what rock you're hiding under

and his heat vision (at high intensity) would be an almost instantaneous sniping kill

Silver Surfer could match Superman in every way.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I'd think Superman has got to get some votes too

he has the best vision among them: distance and x-ray

he could see you no matter how far you are or what rock you're hiding under

and his heat vision (at high intensity) would be an almost instantaneous sniping kill

Assuming they hit......

If we automatically assume that the attacks will land, then Thor takes this handily.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I'd think Superman has got to get some votes too

he has the best vision among them: distance and x-ray

he could see you no matter how far you are or what rock you're hiding under

and his heat vision (at high intensity) would be an almost instantaneous sniping kill

what would his HV do to surfer..i bet NOTHING

Originally posted by golem370
Silver Surfer could match Superman in every way.

I don't think he has ever done so.

Surfer he doesnt need to even see you to use his powers on you. Also Surfer can see just as far as superman( can see space dust from across the universe) and actually has a wider range of vision(he can even look into the past) and overall better senses.

He seen Thanos from a lightyear away. He can hear the whistle of an asteroid from another galaxy or something like that

Hal or SS, as people have already said.
They've got a much larger arsenal of ranged powers.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
what would his HV do to surfer..i bet NOTHING

The same things Surfer's blast would do to Superman.

I think Thor might have the edge out of thses guys 1K away is a hell of a distances at that range He could godblast away and Mjolnir would be able to block anything throw at him blast wise.

He this was longrange fighting but you get in closer says with a few feet then i would gil the GL or SS the win.

While most of these guys use their OWN energy, Thor seems to draw on an external source. There's a limit to the amount of energy Hal can spend, but I don't see Mjolnir running out of juice.

Long-range attacks are more/less what the Surfer does, it's his signature style; pretty much the same with Hal. It's virtually in the very nature of their primary weaponry.

On the other hand, Superman, Black Bolt and Thor (I really don't know much about Firestorm), tend to close in for h2h, pummeling, etc. They can strike long-range (especially Thor), but it's generally not their thing, just like Surfer or Hal can go h2h, but it's rarely done.

Hal/Surfer, Firestorm, Supes, Thor, BB.

Firestorm is being forgot about here.

SS

Originally posted by jrodslam
Hal/Surfer, Firestorm, Supes, Thor, BB. Is this in order?

How is Superman above Thor?

Originally posted by Mindset
Is this in order?

How is Superman above Thor?

Superman uses long range attacks more frequently than Thor, plus he normally shows more long range variety. Thor doesnt use long range attack as much as Supes imo.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Superman uses long range attacks more frequently than Thor, plus he normally shows more long range variety. Thor doesnt use long range attack as much as Supes imo. Supes shows more long range variety with his heat vision?

silver surfer, followed by superman.

firelord should be in this thread, he's capable of creating a steady beam of stellar fire for millions of miles with precise accuracy.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Superman uses long range attacks more frequently than Thor, plus he normally shows more long range variety. Thor doesnt use long range attack as much as Supes imo.
Isn't throwing his hammer a ranged attack? Because I'm pretty sure he does that more often than Supes uses HV.

Superman, obviously.

Hal Jordan is a GL. ALL of thier attacks are Long ranged. They don't mele.
Next would be Firestorm. Pretty much the same Thing as GL.
Then Surfer. He's mostly Long ranged with some strength and Energy Mele attacks.

Originally posted by Mindset
Supes shows more long range variety with his heat vision?

Heat vision and icy/super breath, yea.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Heat vision and icy/super breath, yea. Lightning, godblast, hammer throw

Originally posted by darthgoober
Isn't throwing his hammer a ranged attack? Because I'm pretty sure he does that more often than Supes uses HV.

I do agree with the hammer being a ranged attack. I didnt even consider that, so i concur. Now him using that more than supes using hv? No way.

Originally posted by Mindset
Lightning, godblast, hammer throw

Heat vision, heat vision, heat vision.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Hal Jordan is a GL. ALL of thier attacks are Long ranged. They don't mele.
False

Originally posted by Mindset
Lightning, godblast, hammer throw

Isnt a godblast, lightning? Cause if so, then i can say heat vision and super heat vision?

Originally posted by Mindset
Lightning, godblast, hammer throw
Godblast is meh. It's far too slow to be of any use on anything other than a plot enemy.

Anyway technically Superman has used,

X-Rays, HV, Modulating Whistles, Screams, Wind, Cold Breath, and T-VO which are all ranged attacks.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Isnt a godblast, lightning? Cause if so, then i can say heat vision and super heat vision? No, it's not.

Originally posted by Mindset
No, it's not.

What is it?

Look it up.

No, tell me. Please?

Originally posted by jrodslam
I do agree with the hammer being a ranged attack. I didnt even consider that, so i concur. Now him using that more than supes using hv? No way.
I'm pretty sure that Thor throws his hammer at least 3 or 4 times a fight on average(and likely more), I don't think Supes uses heatvision that often.

Originally posted by jrodslam
What is it?

It is Thor's lifeforce plus amped up by Mjolnir

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm pretty sure that Thor throws his hammer at least 3 or 4 times a fight on average(and likely more), I don't think Supes uses heatvision that often.

Vs bricks? Supes uses heat vision almost everytime.

Originally posted by DarkOdin
It is Thor's lifeforce plus amped up by Mjolnir

K. Thanks.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm pretty sure that Thor throws his hammer at least 3 or 4 times a fight on average(and likely more), I don't think Supes uses heatvision that often. but Superman is far more effective at long range

he could see you miles away with his telescopic vision

and he could see you anywhere no matter where you're hiding (except lead) with his Xray vision

and his heat vision would be instantaneous...there is no travel time as there is with a hammer throw

thus in conclusion, Superman would be far deadlier at far ranges

Thor can't even find you from far away if you were hiding

Surfer / Hal

John Stewart. 3 sectors. bedovian hasn't been seen since, iirc.

I can't believe that some people here actually think superman is better in long range than SS.

Superman may have some pretty nasty long range powers, but they're too limited. I mean, icy breath won't work on SS who survives the vacuum of space. Heat vision may have an effect, that is, if it isn't blocked. and all his other powers, if they're blocked... then what? He's gonna HV all day?

SS has an almost unlimited variety of long range attacks he can come up with the cosmic power. he can even rearrange molecules from a distance.

Next to SS would be either GL or Thor. GL has more variety, but thor has the ability to absorb energy... and at a 1km distance, thor will have a good amount of time to react to ranged attacks. oh, and he can call down a lightning storm on his opponents... that's gota be worth something.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
what would his HV do to surfer..i bet NOTHING

I hate to bring up a "low" showing, but Silver surfer was almost overloaded with energy when he absorbed some of a star's energy. He did blow up a battlestation/moon after that, but Thanos feared that he might overload himself with the energy from the sun.

IIRC Superman's heatvision has been stated to be "stronger" than that of a sun or something similar.

Originally posted by Rhinoceros
I hate to bring up a "low" showing, but Silver surfer was almost overloaded with energy when he absorbed some of a star's energy. He did blow up a battlestation/moon after that, but Thanos feared that he might overload himself with the energy from the sun.

IIRC Superman's heatvision has been stated to be "stronger" than that of a sun or something similar. Wasn't it hotter than the sun, that doesn't mean more energy than a sun.

It's powered planet moving engines while under a red sun, it's drilled through white dwarf stars, one-shotted Despero, etc.

Heat Vision is beastly.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
It's powered planet moving engines while under a red sun, it's drilled through white dwarf stars, one-shotted Despero, etc.

Heat Vision is beastly. despero is a punk though

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
It's powered planet moving engines while under a red sun, it's drilled through white dwarf stars, one-shotted Despero, etc.

Heat Vision is beastly. That doesn't really tell us if it has more energy than the sun.

Originally posted by Rhinoceros
I hate to bring up a "low" showing, but Silver surfer was almost overloaded with energy when he absorbed some of a star's energy. He did blow up a battlestation/moon after that, but Thanos feared that he might overload himself with the energy from the sun.

IIRC Superman's heatvision has been stated to be "stronger" than that of a sun or something similar.

Hotter than a sun is not the same as having more enrgy than a sun. Scientist can generate heat superior to that of the sun but certainly cant generate energy even close to the output of the sun . Supes heat vision cant come close to burning surfer at all

Originally posted by Naija boy
Supes heat vision cant come close to burning surfer at all

why?

Originally posted by Raoul
why?

I mean it wont damage his silvery glaze. It could cause him some pain(not much) but there wont be any lasting damage. Considering that surfer has taken the cosmic flame from the likes of Firelord and Nova as well as flies thru supernovas unscathed

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
It's powered planet moving engines while under a red sun, it's drilled through white dwarf stars, one-shotted Despero, etc.

Heat Vision is beastly.

We need to mention all the people Thor has taken out with his hammer?

Just the idea that people are trying to debate Superman's heat vision vs Mjolnir is just ****ing stupid.

Ignorance runs wild in this thread.

Originally posted by Naija boy
I mean it wont damage his silvery glaze. It could cause him some pain(not much) but there wont be any lasting damage. Considering that surfer has taken the cosmic flame from the likes of Firelord and Nova as well as flies thru supernovas without being damaged.

are we talking just heat, here, or force, or even both?

Originally posted by Raoul
are we talking just heat, here, or force, or even both?

Well doesnt supes heatvision pack most of its strength in its heat (and not concussive force)? hence the name?. Given that, its certainly not going to be burning of any of surfers silvery glaze.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
We need to mention all the people Thor has taken out with his hammer?

Just the idea that people are trying to debate Superman's heat vision vs Mjolnir is just ****ing stupid.

Ignorance runs wild in this thread. can Thor attack beings with Mjolnir out of the range of his vision?

if not, then his range is pretty limited

Originally posted by Starscream M
can Thor attack beings with Mjolnir out of the range of his vision?

if not, then his range is pretty limited

Superman can't attack anyone outside the range of his vision either......

Not that it matters at 1km distance.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Well doesnt supes heatvision pack most of its strength in its heat (and not concussive force)? hence the name?. Given that, its certainly not going to be burning of any of surfers silvery glaze.

it's a mixture of both. it's punched through some targets rather than burned them. it's also considered to be comparable with his strength in some instances...

Originally posted by Raoul
it's a mixture of both. it's punched through some targets rather than burned them. it's also considered to be comparable with his strength in some instances...

In what instance?

Even then, Superman's strength can't hold a candle to Mjolnir's capabilities.

Originally posted by Raoul
it's a mixture of both. it's punched through some targets rather than burned them. it's also considered to be comparable with his strength in some instances...

But arent his highest feats cases of it burning through things rather than it using concussive force to destroy them? Also what feats does it have that were comparable to his strength?

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Superman can't attack anyone outside the range of his vision either......

Not that it matters at 1km distance. true, but Superman's range of vision is far greater than Thor's

also, the limit is that they won't fight any closer than 1km...but nothing stipulates that they can't move farther than that distance

Superman can just move to a distance where he can be sure Thor can't see him and blast him with hv all day

Originally posted by Starscream M
true, but Superman's range of vision is far greater than Thor's

also, the limit is that they won't fight any closer than 1km...but nothing stipulates that they can't move farther than that distance

Superman can just move to a distance where he can be sure Thor can't see him and blast him with hv all day

Doesn't say they're fighting eachother.

Doesn't matter though. Thor just has to absorb all the energy into Mjolnir which requires virtually nothing from him, and the heat won't affect him.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Doesn't say they're fighting eachother.

Doesn't matter though. Thor just has to absorb all the energy into Mjolnir which requires virtually nothing from him, and the heat won't affect him. he can't absorb the energy since he won't know where it's coming from since he can't see where superman is

and you don't think focused beams of hv will hurt thor?

Originally posted by Starscream M
true, but Superman's range of vision is far greater than Thor's

also, the limit is that they won't fight any closer than 1km...but nothing stipulates that they can't move farther than that distance

Superman can just move to a distance where he can be sure Thor can't see him and blast him with hv all day

Heh, thor once created a winds so powerful while in asgard that it actually caused damage on earth. That should count as very long range shouldnt it?

Originally posted by Starscream M
he can't absorb the energy since he won't know where it's coming from since he can't see where superman is

and you don't think focused beams of hv will hurt thor?

You obviously know nothing of Mjolnir.

Thor only has to lift Mjolnir and it will automatically absorb all the energy coming at him. He doesn't need to know where it's coming from, lmao.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Heh, thor once created a winds so powerful while in asgard that it actually caused damage on earth. That should count as very long range shouldnt it?

He's also created storms and such in every four corner of the earth.

Originally posted by Starscream M
he can't absorb the energy since he won't know where it's coming from since he can't see where superman is

and you don't think focused beams of hv will hurt thor?

Actually he can all he needs to do is draw the oncoming energy into mjolnir. He doesnt need to see superman.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Heh, thor once created a winds so powerful while in asgard that it actually caused damage on earth. That should count as very long range shouldnt it? it does, but you think that would be viable against beings with flight and super speed?

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
You obviously know nothing of Mjolnir.

Thor only has to lift Mjolnir and it will automatically absorb all the energy coming at him. He doesn't need to know where it's coming from, lmao.

didn't know that

that would mean no one can hit thor with energy blasts as long as he has his hammer then?

Originally posted by Starscream M
didn't know that

that would mean no one can hit thor with energy blasts as long as he has his hammer then?

As long as he absorbs it.

And he's absorbed energy from Thanos easily.

Originally posted by Starscream M
it does, but you think that would be viable against beings with flight and super speed?

I didnt know this was a fight with thor against superman. I thought it was just a question of who has the better long range attacks. But actually Thors winds have actually Held back Surtur and he has made them so powerful that he used them as forcefields so the certainly will be useful in battle.

Originally posted by Naija boy
I didnt know this was a fight with thor against superman. I thought it was just a question of who has the better long range attacks. But actually Thors winds have actually Held back Surtur and he has made them so powerful that he used them as forcefields so the certainly will be useful in battle. its not who has the best long range attacks...it is who would be the best long range FIGHTER...which assumes defense and offense capabilities at long range

I see Thor's lack of vision range a major hindrance to him being a superior range fighter than Superman

Originally posted by Starscream M
its not who has the best long range attacks...it is who would be the best long range FIGHTER...which assumes defense and offense capabilities at long range

I see Thor's lack of vision range a major hindrance to him being a superior range fighter than Superman

Which is the only advantage Superman has.

Where as Thor has tons of other advantages.

Even in the absolutely ridiculous scenario where Thor for some reason had to fight his opponent at a distance far greater than 1 km, could not use his teleportation ability and could not use mjolnir to fly Superman might be at an advantage....

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Which is the only advantage Superman has.

Where as Thor has tons of other advantages.

Even in the absolutely ridiculous scenario where Thor for some reason had to fight his opponent at a distance far greater than 1 km, could not use his teleportation ability and could not use mjolnir to fly Superman might be at an advantage.... how would he know where to teleport to or fly to if he can't see where superman is?

Originally posted by Starscream M
how would he know where to teleport to or fly to if he can't see where superman is?

well if someone is attacking him, he only has to trace that attack.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I'd think Superman has got to get some votes too

he has the best vision among them: distance and x-ray

he could see you no matter how far you are or what rock you're hiding under

and his heat vision (at high intensity) would be an almost instantaneous sniping kill

WHAT ?!?! Silver Surfer has far far better senses than Superman in every conceivable way.


Surfer or Hal takes this.

Originally posted by Starscream M
true, but Superman's range of vision is far greater than Thor's

also, the limit is that they won't fight any closer than 1km...but nothing stipulates that they can't move farther than that distance

Superman can just move to a distance where he can be sure Thor can't see him and blast him with hv all day It says in the OP that they have to fight 1k away from each other...

That indicates that they won't be moving back...

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
As long as he absorbs it.

And he's absorbed energy from Thanos easily.
Of course it would be easy for Thor, he did absorbed energy from Celestials..

Btw... when did Thor do this?

Originally posted by Priest
Of course it would be easy for Thor, he did absorbed energy from Celestials..

Btw... when did Thor do this?

Thor 524 when he fought the thanos who was later rectonned into a clone and WM thor against Thanos.

Diversity: Surfer/Hal

Raw Power: BB

Originally posted by golem370
He seen Thanos from a lightyear away. He can hear the whistle of an asteroid from another galaxy or something like that
But couldn't see himself from running into Thanos' fists?

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
In what instance?

Even then, Superman's strength can't hold a candle to Mjolnir's capabilities.

i never said it could. i was replying to naija's statement about surfer's skin.

Originally posted by Naija boy
But arent his highest feats cases of it burning through things rather than it using concussive force to destroy them? Also what feats does it have that were comparable to his strength?

he's hv'd off limbs of the general, who was using the insanely durable shaggy man body. it was only the use of salamander regenerative dna that kept the general going, iirc.

he's melted major force's skin (more heat than power, granted)

he's put down j'onn, despero, and one-shotted more than one imperiex probe.

his hv has packed sufficient power to block omega beams.

those are off the top of my head. i can look for more later...


also, yeah, this isnt a vs thread people, lets not turn it in to one...

Hal or SS

Firestorm

Supes

Thor

BB

Originally posted by Starscream M
and his heat vision would be instantaneous...there is no travel time as there is with a hammer throw

thus in conclusion, Superman would be far deadlier at far ranges

Thor can't even find you from far away if you were hiding Thor's best hammer throws go far faster than the speed of light. Superman's heat vision does not exceed light speed. Hell, GL blasts can be willed faster than light. Mjolnir can also self-guide itself when thrown. None of the other combatants can boast that ability except for maybe GLs.

Thor can see people at 1 km away. Seriously, 1 km away is not that far. Also:
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
well if someone is attacking him, he only has to trace that attack. Mjolnir can guide Thor to pretty much any person, anywhere, anyti- ... well it used to be anytime before they got rid of Mjolnir's temporal abilities.

Thor also has the most effective defense amongst the group in that he can absorb, deflect and reamplify/return energy attacks with no harm coming to him at all. He also boasts the most versatility in attacks: storms out of nowhere, energy blasts, whirlwind vortexes, lightning strikes from above and godblasts.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Mjolnir can guide Thor to pretty much any person, anywhere, anyti- ... well it used to be anytime before they got rid of Mjolnir's temporal abilities.

Thor also has the most effective defense amongst the group in that he can absorb, deflect and reamplify/return energy attacks with no harm coming to him at all. He also boasts the most versatility in attacks: storms out of nowhere, energy blasts, whirlwind vortexes, lightning strikes from above and godblasts.

Yup.

There's also though anti-force blasts and a loooong list of bullshit attacks : DD

Not to mention the ability to drain someone's life force.

^ Thor's used super-breath before too. True story.



Seriously.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Thor's used super-breath before too. True story.



Seriously.

He's also fought an extended battle on the sun : D

Eat your heart out Superman.

Originally posted by Raoul
i never said it could. i was replying to naija's statement about surfer's skin.



he's hv'd off limbs of the general, who was using the insanely durable shaggy man body. it was only the use of salamander regenerative dna that kept the general going, iirc.

he's melted major force's skin (more heat than power, granted)

he's put down j'onn, despero, and one-shotted more than one imperiex probe.

his hv has packed sufficient power to block omega beams.

those are off the top of my head. i can look for more later...


also, yeah, this isnt a vs thread people, lets not turn it in to one...

The first feat while impressive doesnt mean its going to have the same effect on surfer as surfer has superior durability.

Same thing with major force. Surfer> Major force by quite a bit durability wise

surfer is superior to Jonn durability wise
The Despero he put down, wasnt that a weaker version or something? and also in OWAW he seemed to be putting down imperiex probes with fast combinations of strength,HV,freezebreath etc iirc. Did he ever actually put down impriex probes using soley his HV?

Still, all in all those feats are impressive but not certainly not enough to make me believe it can cause damage to surfers skin considering the shots he has taken without any visible physical damage,

Originally posted by Naija boy
The first feat while impressive doesnt mean its going to have the same effect on surfer as surfer has superior durability.

Same thing with major force. Surfer> Major force by quite a bit durability wise

surfer is superior to Jonn durability wise
The Despero he put down, wasnt that a weaker version or something? and also in OWAW he seemed to be putting down imperiex probes with fast combinations of strength,HV,freezebreath etc iirc. Did he ever actually put down impriex probes using soley his HV?

Still, all in all those feats are impressive but not certainly not enough to make me believe it can cause damage to surfers skin considering the shots he has taken without any visible physical damage, it it will be an actually painfull attack though, but no it wont crack it or anything

Originally posted by jalek moye
it it will be an actually painfull attack though, but no it wont crack it or anything

Exactly

Originally posted by Naija boy
The first feat while impressive doesnt mean its going to have the same effect on surfer as surfer has superior durability.

steel said shaggy man is "completely indestructible". not saying he's surfer's superior, but he'd have to be on a comparable level imo.



its what jalek moye said. i wasnt claiming he could penetrate the surfer's skin, i was just illustrating that it's a powerful attack all on its own.

also, imperiex probe:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/pr1983/th_AOS594-3.jpg

all i'm trying to do is dispel the myth that his heat vision isn't that impressive, given people (not you) in some cases seem to think superman has no other options bar strength and speed...

Superman Sucks.
But his HV is a *****. It's hotter than Stars. And has on panel matched a DS avatars Omega Beams. We are talking skyfather lvl Omega beams.

Originally posted by Raoul
steel said shaggy man is "completely indestructible". not saying he's surfer's superior, but he'd have to be on a comparable level imo.



its what jalek moye said. i wasnt claiming he could penetrate the surfer's skin, i was just illustrating that it's a powerful attack all on its own.

also, imperiex probe:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/pr1983/th_AOS594-3.jpg

all i'm trying to do is dispel the myth that his heat vision isn't that impressive, given people (not you) in some cases seem to think superman has no other options bar strength and speed...

Yeah well then i definitely agree with that.( the part about it being really powerful, not the part about surfer durability being comparable to shaggy man )

Originally posted by fangirl101
Superman Sucks.
But his HV is a *****. It's hotter than Stars. And has on panel matched a DS avatars Omega Beams. We are talking skyfather lvl Omega beams.

Clearly.

Heat vision = Skyfather level energy beams.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Superman Sucks.
But his HV is a *****. It's hotter than Stars. And has on panel matched a DS avatars Omega Beams. We are talking skyfather lvl Omega beams.

ehem, Two blasts colliding with each other does not put them on the same level or even close.

^ Barring context or any further developments where one blast is clearly more potent than the other, I'd say it does at least illustrate that the two blasts are comparable.

Originally posted by Naija boy
ehem, Two blasts colliding with each other does not put them on the same level or even close. when it's convenient. But when arguing against DS, people would bring those HV beams up constantly.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Barring context or any further developments where one blast is clearly more potent than the other, I'd say it does at least illustrate that the two blasts are comparable.

By further developments do u mean feats which occur outside said environment? Cuz id think that DS Omega beams have supermans HV beaten in that department. There also the nature of blasts that will be called into question. Some blasts which pack less concussive force might be "lose" or at least make the power gap between the two beams look closer than it actually is in that sort of beam collison but be more effective when it comes to battle and actually affecting opponents.

Originally posted by Naija boy
By further developments do u mean feats which occur outside said environment? Cuz id think that DS Omega beams have supermans HV beaten in that department. There also the nature of blasts that will be called into question. Some blasts which pack less concussive force might be "lose" in that sort of beam collison but be more effective when it comes to battle and actually affecting opponents. No, I mean like in the next panel, one beam is shown overtaking the other. The latter can be true, but as I said before, all things considered equal a stalemating of beams strongly implies same level or close to same level.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Yeah well then i definitely agree with that.( the part about it being really powerful, not the part about surfer durability being comparable to shaggy man )



works for me...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No, I mean like in the next panel, one beam is shown overtaking the other. The latter can be true, but as I said before, all things considered equal a stalemating of beams strongly implies same level or close to same level.

Well i think that depends on the time period in which they stalemate. A prolonged stalemating of beams given that both operate in somewhat the same ways does suggest that they may be comparable. However what im referring to is a brief collision of beams (similar to Tyrant and Gladiators). In such instances people at times falsely believe that the power of such beams are equal.

also beams might match just because of the intensity, but the types of energy would have different effects on a person

Just compare the effect omega beams had on Doomsday, to the effect heat vision had on him.

Isn't one of Surfer's powers energy redirection?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Thor's best hammer throws go far faster than the speed of light. Superman's heat vision does not exceed light speed. Hell, GL blasts can be willed faster than light. Mjolnir can also self-guide itself when thrown. None of the other combatants can boast that ability except for maybe GLs.

Thor can see people at 1 km away. Seriously, 1 km away is not that far. Also:
Mjolnir can guide Thor to pretty much any person, anywhere, anyti- ... well it used to be anytime before they got rid of Mjolnir's temporal abilities.

Thor also has the most effective defense amongst the group in that he can absorb, deflect and reamplify/return energy attacks with no harm coming to him at all. He also boasts the most versatility in attacks: storms out of nowhere, energy blasts, whirlwind vortexes, lightning strikes from above and godblasts.

Thor can indeed throw the hammer Light speed (can swing it 2x light speed). But know that it takes him a lot of time to build up momentum to achieve this speed. In combat against someone fast he wont have enough time to do this. Thor has shown versatility but requires time to achieve them.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thor can indeed throw the hammer Light speed (can swing it 2x light speed). But know that it takes him a lot of time to build up momentum to achieve this speed. In combat against someone fast he wont have enough time to do this. Thor has shown versatility but requires time to achieve them.
I'm not arguing with what you're saying, but Thor can throw his hammer at least 3x lightspeed.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thor can indeed throw the hammer Light speed (can swing it 2x light speed). But know that it takes him a lot of time to build up momentum to achieve this speed. In combat against someone fast he wont have enough time to do this. Thor has shown versatility but requires time to achieve them. 2 seconds, as it has been stated in certain feats, may seem like an eternity to you, but considering he can use those 2 seconds and have an impenetrable field from which to block long range attacks before he chucks his hammer... I fail to see how you've done nothing but point out how superior Thor is in this particular contest with these particular rules?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
2 seconds, as it has been stated in certain feats, may seem like an eternity to you, but considering he can use those 2 seconds and have an impenetrable field from which to block long range attacks before he chucks his hammer... I fail to see how you've done nothing but point out how superior Thor is in this particular contest with these particular rules?

I said against someone fast. That means someone who can attack in a fraction of a second.

Originally posted by h1a8
I said against someone fast. That means someone who can attack in a fraction of a second. Funny, Thor can defend in a fraction of a second and turn the attack of someone fast right back on them.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Funny, Thor can defend in a fraction of a second and turn the attack of someone fast right back on them.

True.
So can Captain America.
There are different levels of speed.
And Thor is not in the top echelon of that category.

Supermans HV is no where near the power of surfer, thors hammer or a lanterns ring. He should not be even mentioned in the same sentence with them when it comes to long range fighters. Up close hes good. There are plenty of fighters with hotter than the sun HV or something similar. Thor and surfer can maul a planet with their long range attack. Supes HV cannot and plenty of people have took it close range and struck back at him.

Originally posted by james2099
Supermans HV is no where near the power of surfer, thors hammer or a lanterns ring. He should not be even mentioned in the same sentence with them when it comes to long range fighters. Up close hes good. There are plenty of fighters with hotter than the sun HV or something similar. Thor and surfer can maul a planet with their long range attack. Supes HV cannot and plenty of people have took it close range and struck back at him.

Being a good long range fighter implies good speed of the attack as well as good effectiveness of the attack. Superman's attack may or may not be as effective as some others but it sure is faster than most.

Note: Speed of the attack doesn't just mean how fast the attack can go but also how fast can one unleash it (instantaneously).

Originally posted by h1a8
Being a good long range fighter implies good speed of the attack as well as good effectiveness of the attack. Superman's attack may or may not be as effective as some others but it sure is faster than most.

Note: Speed of the attack doesn't just mean how fast the attack can go but also how fast can one unleash it (instantaneously). So... Surfer?

Originally posted by Slaanesh
what would his HV do to surfer..i bet NOTHING

We aren't debating who can hurt who from where.

Originally posted by h1a8
Being a good long range fighter implies good speed of the attack as well as good effectiveness of the attack. Superman's attack may or may not be as effective as some others but it sure is faster than most.

Note: Speed of the attack doesn't just mean how fast the attack can go but also how fast can one unleash it (instantaneously).

Surfer, thor, and GL all have long range attacks that they can unleash instantaneously. As of yet there has been no proof that superman's HV is faster than the attacks of the other contenders... unless someone can produce scans of both superman's HV and the others' long range attacks that can clearly show that sm's HV is faster.

Besides, we have no idea how effective superman's HV will be against the others. It may knock them out... but what if it doesn't? What if his HV doesn't proove as effective as he intended? What's he gona do?

At least for the others, just incase one attack doesn't work, they still have a variety of attacks to try out.

Let's just face it. Superman is good, almost unbeatable when taken as a whole... but he's just not cut out for pure long distance fighting. He has the capabilities, but he doesn't hold a candle to the other 3 mentioned above.

IMO, the criteria for "Best Long Range Fighter" needs to be defined. But even without definition, Surfer has all of them beat in Speed, Variety, Nature and Intensity of Long Range Attacks. Cept mebbe for the sheer intensity of Thor's Godblast.

^ Thor has Surfer beat on defense.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
IMO, the criteria for "Best Long Range Fighter" needs to be defined. But even without definition, Surfer has all of them beat in Speed, Variety, Nature and Intensity of Long Range Attacks. Cept mebbe for the sheer intensity of Thor's Godblast.

True. and the fact that mjolnir can absorb energy. But still, the power cosmic is too flexible. I mean, surfer can rearrange molecules and matter composition!!!! How do you defend against that?

I know that a Green Lantern can take HV. Hal took Cyborg Supes HV with no damage to himself due to his aura shield

Originally posted by FrothByte
Surfer, thor, and GL all have long range attacks that they can unleash instantaneously. As of yet there has been no proof that superman's HV is faster than the attacks of the other contenders... unless someone can produce scans of both superman's HV and the others' long range attacks that can clearly show that sm's HV is faster.

Besides, we have no idea how effective superman's HV will be against the others. It may knock them out... but what if it doesn't? What if his HV doesn't proove as effective as he intended? What's he gona do?

At least for the others, just incase one attack doesn't work, they still have a variety of attacks to try out.

Let's just face it. Superman is good, almost unbeatable when taken as a whole... but he's just not cut out for pure long distance fighting. He has the capabilities, but he doesn't hold a candle to the other 3 mentioned above.

Thor and GL have no instantaneously attacks. Superman's HV comes out instantly at the speed of light. Silver Surfer possibly has very fast blasts as well in which he may be fast enough to unleash them almost instantaneously too. Superman's HV can range to a soothing warmth to something that seemingly can burn through any substance. Remember Clark holds back a lot and that's why his HV sometimes sucks. Superman can also blow you away with his breath.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thor and GL have no instantaneously attacks. Superman's HV comes out instantly at the speed of light. Silver Surfer possibly has very fast blasts as well in which he may be fast enough to unleash them almost instantaneously too. Superman's HV can range to a soothing warmth to something that seemingly can burn through any substance. Remember Clark holds back a lot and that's why his HV sometimes sucks. Superman can also blow you away with his breath.

How do you define instantaneous? coz as far as i've seen, thor can shoot power blasts from his hammer as soon as he points it at a target (we're not talking about lightning or god force here). it's not like he points at a target, charges his hammer, then releases the shot. he points and shoots. correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't that instantaneous? Surfer and GL do the same thing, point and shoot. i've seen gl, surfer, and thor at times charge first (gather their energy) before shooting which looks like it makes their shots stronger... but i've also seen them just discharge shots at will (can anyone provide scans of the thor vs. surfer comics).

the only advantage that supes has is he doesn't need to point his hands or anything, he just looks and shoots... but considering the speed movement of these guys, pointing your hand (or ring or hammer) won't be that far behind pointing your eyes.

but then isn't thor capable of utilizing radial attacks? (power flows out from him in a circle). I'm not sure about it, but incase he can (and I'm pretty sure that surfer can do it too) then they don't even need to point before shooting.

P.S. ... how strong is superman's breath? Is it enough to affect the intergalactic beings who travel through the vacuum of time and space (yup, that's surfer, thor, and gl)?

bullseye?

Supes, Blackbolt

In a H2H beatdown, Supes is king, but this is a debate about the best Long Ranged Fighter, Supes -doesn't- fight long ranged as a standard way of attack, he's a H2H guy. He CAN fight long ranged and he does it well (kicks ass at it actually), but when compared against people who regularly ONLY fight at ranged like the SS and GL does, is he even a factor here (yes, they can fight H2H, too but only as often as supes fights at ranged)?

Originally posted by FrothByte
How do you define instantaneous? coz as far as i've seen, thor can shoot power blasts from his hammer as soon as he points it at a target (we're not talking about lightning or god force here). it's not like he points at a target, charges his hammer, then releases the shot. he points and shoots. correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't that instantaneous? Surfer and GL do the same thing, point and shoot. i've seen gl, surfer, and thor at times charge first (gather their energy) before shooting which looks like it makes their shots stronger... but i've also seen them just discharge shots at will (can anyone provide scans of the thor vs. surfer comics).

the only advantage that supes has is he doesn't need to point his hands or anything, he just looks and shoots... but considering the speed movement of these guys, pointing your hand (or ring or hammer) won't be that far behind pointing your eyes.

but then isn't thor capable of utilizing radial attacks? (power flows out from him in a circle). I'm not sure about it, but incase he can (and I'm pretty sure that surfer can do it too) then they don't even need to point before shooting.

P.S. ... how strong is superman's breath? Is it enough to affect the intergalactic beings who travel through the vacuum of time and space (yup, that's surfer, thor, and gl)?

Pointing and shooting is not instantaneous.
SS can almost be instantaneous due to his speed.
Superman's HV comes out astronomically times faster than Thor could even think to move his arms to point. GL may even be slower.

Thor, SS, and GL can be knocked back by mere 100 ton force. Superman's breath is stronger than that.

Originally posted by h1a8

Thor, SS, and GL can be knocked back by mere 100 ton force. Superman's breath is stronger than that. scans?

Originally posted by h1a8
Thor, SS, and GL can be knocked back by mere 100 ton force. Superman's breath is stronger than that.

This debate isn't about Superman's poor dental hygiene...

Originally posted by h1a8
Pointing and shooting is not instantaneous.
SS can almost be instantaneous due to his speed.
Superman's HV comes out astronomically times faster than Thor could even think to move his arms to point. GL may even be slower.

Thor, SS, and GL can be knocked back by mere 100 ton force. Superman's breath is stronger than that.

Ok i concede that pointing and shooting is not as fast as shooting from the eyes... it's about a few milliseconds slower.

He'd just better make sure that it's enough to at least knock down his opponents (considering that his HV actually does penetrate the opponent's defense) otherwise he'll be hit by long range attacks stronger than his HV.

as for the breath thing... sorry, but until i see it happen, i just can't picture supes blowing ss away when ss has the power to travel through black holes. I also can't seem to imagine supes blowing thor away when thor is powerful enough to trade blows with superman (unless supes breath is stronger than his physical strength... which i doubt).

SS owned God Cable with an eye blast...

Originally posted by FrothByte
Ok i concede that pointing and shooting is not as fast as shooting from the eyes... it's about a few milliseconds slower.

He'd just better make sure that it's enough to at least knock down his opponents (considering that his HV actually does penetrate the opponent's defense) otherwise he'll be hit by long range attacks stronger than his HV.

it will knock them away if not down, its force is up there with his strength

Originally posted by h1a8


Thor, SS, and GL can be knocked back by mere 100 ton force. Superman's breath is stronger than that.

Where r u getting this nonsense from? Supes breath would be a big joke to SS or thor. Heck thor has winds far far far far superior to supes "super breath"

Originally posted by Naija boy
Where r u getting this nonsense from? Supes breath would be a big joke to SS or thor. Heck thor has winds far far far far superior to supes "super breath"
i have no idea what he's saying, the heat vision i can see knocking them down but a hell no to the breath

Originally posted by jalek moye
i have no idea what he's saying, the heat vision i can see knocking them down but a hell no to the breath

Agreed. That guy however seems to think that superbreath will probably be a very effective tool.lol

He must think super breath travels FTL.

Surfer, Thor, GL, and I believe Firestorm have one major advantage over Superman...Forcefields.

However, Superman has better reaction times than the rest.

On the other hand, Surfer, Firestorm, and Thor can use indirect attacks/defenses that can't be seen coming (from a straight line) such as matter manipulation, transmutation, energy absorbtion, and Godblast.

Surfer has one other attribute that gives him an enormous advantage in long range fighting, and that is cosmic awareness.

IMO, Surfer is the best long range fighter.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Ok i concede that pointing and shooting is not as fast as shooting from the eyes... it's about a few milliseconds slower.

He'd just better make sure that it's enough to at least knock down his opponents (considering that his HV actually does penetrate the opponent's defense) otherwise he'll be hit by long range attacks stronger than his HV.

as for the breath thing... sorry, but until i see it happen, i just can't picture supes blowing ss away when ss has the power to travel through black holes. I also can't seem to imagine supes blowing thor away when thor is powerful enough to trade blows with superman (unless supes breath is stronger than his physical strength... which i doubt).

I'm not saying that both Thor and SS can't resist the breath. I'm just saying that initially they can be knocked back by it. They can indeed fight to get back.

I'm not saying that Superman is the best long range fighter either.
I'm just saying that his long rang fighter abillity doesn't suck as some people are making it out to be.

If cis is off and bloodlust is on then Superman is at least as good as the other two. If cis is on then Superman is probably not as good as SS and maybe some others in long range fighting. But his super vision and reflexes do help in that area.

Originally posted by h1a8
I'm not saying that both Thor and SS can't resist the breath. I'm just saying that initially they can be knocked back by it. They can indeed fight to get back.

I'm not saying that Superman is the best long range fighter either.
I'm just saying that his long rang fighter abillity doesn't suck as some people are making it out to be.

If cis is off and bloodlust is on then Superman is at least as good as the other two. If cis is on then Superman is probably not as good as SS and maybe some others in long range fighting. But his super vision and reflexes do help in that area.

How can superman be as a good a long range fighter as SS if CIS is off?

Originally posted by Naija boy
How can superman be as a good a long range fighter as SS if CIS is off?

his HV comes out faster than any of SS attacks and it can go through almost anything if the mental blocks are off.
SS is almost as fast but is more versatile. I say about a tie.

Originally posted by h1a8
his HV comes out faster than any of SS attacks and it can go through almost anything if the mental blocks are off.
SS is almost as fast but is more versatile. I say about a tie.

Proof of the HVs speed? And it can go thru almost anything?lol, while the HV is powerful SS blasts are considerably more powerful than it not only that SS has numerous array to choose from. Further SS doesnt even have to blast in order to affect things from far away so i dont know how u see them as being equal.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Proof of the HVs speed? And it can go thru almost anything?lol, while the HV is powerful SS blasts are considerably more powerful than it not only that SS has numerous array to choose from. Further SS doesnt even have to blast in order to affect things from far away so i dont know how u see them as being equal.

Its light speed.

I agree with everything you said. I just believe Superman can blast SS before SS can blast him.

Now energy can appear invisible (like gamma rays). This alone makes it seem that SS is affecting things far away without blasting at them.

I now agree with you though. SS is the better long range figther than Superman is. I was only applying Superman to a one on one situation. Where SS is clearly much better at a one on many situation.

Originally posted by h1a8
his HV comes out faster than any of SS attacks and it can go through almost anything if the mental blocks are off.
SS is almost as fast but is more versatile. I say about a tie.

How can HV be faster than SS attacks just because he can shoot it thru his eyes? SS can shoot thru his eyes too, he pwnd God cable that way. Also, he's not almost as fast. He's faster.

Originally posted by h1a8
Its light speed.

I agree with everything you said. I just believe Superman can blast SS before SS can blast him.

Now energy can appear invisible (like gamma rays). This alone makes it seem that SS is affecting things far away without blasting at them.

I now agree with you though. SS is the better long range figther than Superman is. I was only applying Superman to a one on one situation. Where SS is clearly much better at a one on many situation.


Yeah ive heard its lightspeed but i was just wondering if there was any examples of it in which it was verified to be moving at lightspeed.

Also i wasnt talking about SS using his energy powers, i was referring to his matter manip which he has shown he can use from very long distances without even needing to see his target.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Yeah ive heard its lightspeed but i was just wondering if there was any examples of it in which it was verified to be moving at lightspeed.

Also i wasnt talking about SS using his energy powers, i was referring to his matter manip which he has shown he can use from very long distances without even needing to see his target.

There is a comic showing Superman shooting HV at the moon from Earth. The beam took a matter of a few seconds to get there. I don't know if this is near light speed (I didn't calculate it or don't know how far the moon is away). I'm basically just going on how fast the comics seem to show it (it seems like a laser beam).

If SS can do that (affect matter from very far away) then he is top dog at long range fighting. See, I have no problem agreeing when someone is right. I would like to see him do that eventually. Not necessarily right now though.

SS can use eye blasts just as well as Supes can. SS power cosmic has a FAR greater variety of effects than Supes' heat vision or Super breath or w/e can. SS main attack is ranged making him the more skilled ranged figther. SS can fly and move just as fast or faster that Superman.

Higher intensity
Higher variety
Similar speed
Higher skill

On a ranged attack comparison, Supes isn't even a concern for the SS, I'd say GL is but Surfer prolly has him beat in sheer reaction speed and slightly beat in sheer power.

Originally posted by h1a8
There is a comic showing Superman shooting HV at the moon from Earth. The beam took a matter of a few seconds to get there. I don't know if this is near light speed (I didn't calculate it or don't know how far the moon is away). I'm basically just going on how fast the comics seem to show it (it seems like a laser beam).

If SS can do that (affect matter from very far away) then he is top dog at long range fighting. See, I have no problem agreeing when someone is right. I would like to see him do that eventually. Not necessarily right now though.

Well SS blasted the Lord enslavers ship,(which was much larger than earth and was which was "parked" behind the moon) from earth. His blast also seemingly reached there in a few seconds. this can be confirmed because he was actually in a battle with the Lord enslaver, Mrungo Mu at the time and immediately Mrungo is cut off from his power near instantly. So even then saying supes HV is faster isnt really accurate. See below,

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/th_SSlongrangeblast.jpg

And also yes SS has used his Matter manip abilities from long distances

http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0016og0.jpg
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0017av4.jpg
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0018lv5.jpg

Here he protects the drivetechs of a whole population full of ships from electromagnetic distortion on the planet orbucen just by blinking. Said ships are in an entirely different location.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Well SS blasted the Lord enslavers ship,(which was much larger than earth and was which was "parked" behind the moon) from earth. His blast also seemingly reached there in a few seconds. this can be confirmed because he was actually in a battle with the Lord enslaver, Mrungo Mu at the time and immediately Mrungo is cut off from his power near instantly. So even then saying supes HV is faster isnt really accurate. See below,

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/th_SSlongrangeblast.jpg

And also yes SS has used his Matter manip abilities from long distances

http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0016og0.jpg
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0017av4.jpg
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0018lv5.jpg

Here he protects the drivetechs of a whole population full of ships from electromagnetic distortion on the planet orbucen just by blinking. Said ships are in an entirely different location.

Impressive.
What comic is that from?

Originally posted by h1a8
Impressive.
What comic is that from?

the first is from SS enslavers graphic novel. And the second set of scans are from nova 14

so are we all agreed that ss is currently #1 in the list of long range fighters? so... now who's #2?

I'm personally going with thor. I put him above GL since he has non-linear attacks (storms, winds, lightning...) and because he has that damn energy absorption ability of mjolnir. plus GFB.

^ Thor better in a long range fight IMHO.

Originally posted by FrothByte
so are we all agreed that ss is currently #1 in the list of long range fighters? Yup

Thor or GL tossup at #2. GL imo.

My arrangement would be as follows:

Silver Surfer

Hal Jordan

Thor

Superman

Firestorm

Black Bolt

BB has an uber ranged attack but loses in speed and versatility.