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First of all hi, I'm new to the community.

Aren't force powers more efficient than lightsaber combat? Why do Jedi/Sith decide to fight using lightsabers? In my opinion a jedi/sith using the force will defeat a jedi/sith using the lightsaber. As an example for my question, when Darth Sidious fights Mace and the other master he draws his lightsaber first to fight. Why doesn't he just use force lightning?

Originally posted by Darth N
First of all hi, I'm new to the community.

Aren't force powers more efficient than lightsaber combat? Why do Jedi/Sith decide to fight using lightsabers? In my opinion a jedi/sith using the force will defeat a jedi/sith using the lightsaber. As an example for my question, when Darth Sidious fights Mace and the other master he draws his lightsaber first to fight. Why doesn't he just use force lightning? As we have seen, lightsabers can block Force lightning, so... Not to mention, using a lightsaber allows you to utilize speed to kill an opponent using a weapon that can cut through almost anything. Also, lets see the average Jedi or Sith deflect 50 baster bolts.

Originally posted by Darth N
First of all hi, I'm new to the community.

Aren't force powers more efficient than lightsaber combat?

No. For example, when Bane fights the technobeasts he relies mostly on his lightsabre as he knows it's more energy-efficient.

Originally posted by Darth N
Why do Jedi/Sith decide to fight using lightsabers?

Because they can cut through nearly anything, they can deflect blaster fire etc.

Originally posted by Darth N
In my opinion a jedi/sith using the force will defeat a jedi/sith using the lightsaber.

So you have two Jedi/Sith, both with Force powers and you think the unarmed one will win?

Plus, in "Path of Destruction" Kas'im states that a more skilled lightsabre duellist is fully capable of beating someone more powerful in the Force.

Originally posted by Darth N
As an example for my question, when Darth Sidious fights Mace and the other master he draws his lightsaber first to fight. Why doesn't he just use force lightning?

Probably because they'd have just blocked it with their lightsabres.

Originally posted by Darth N
First of all hi, I'm new to the community.'ello.

With one exception in the EU (Roan Shryne, Rise of Darth Vader), yes.

PIS, and it looks cool.

Probably.

PIS, and it was supposed to look cool.

First off, welcome to kmc, this place can get heated at times so try not take anything personal.

As far as this thread goes, you also have to take into account the fact that jedi don't use too many offensive powers (aside from the basic tk) which means that they have limited arsenal of techniques vs the sith. I also believe that the average jedi and sith are fairly equal in terms of strength in the force so their ability to wield a lightsaber is what decides a fight but we have to keep in mind that a lot of characters (off hand im not sure how well that is represented in the movies) use the force when they are in lightsaber combat.

Aside from the many uses that lightsabers have when utilized against normal adversaries and troubling obstacles, I believe Count Dooku puts it best.



If two Force-wielders are evenly matched in terms of power, then it is possible that they could not overcome each other.

It also seems apparent that the Jedi and the Sith move to using the Force when it is more practical or achieves better results. For example, Dooku flinging Kenobi away, or Kenobi dropping a piece of scenery on many droids (both from Episode III).

Originally posted by Publius II
Why do Jedi/Sith decide to fight using lightsabers?

Because without lightsabres they'd get killed.

Originally posted by Publius II

Probably.

No, they would get slaughtered. Does the name 'Grievous' mean anything to you?

Originally posted by Publius II
PIS, and it was supposed to look cool.

What's PIS about the fact that lightening would have been useless as they'd have just blocked it?

He's just cranky.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Because without lightsabres they'd get killed.Misquote on your part.

And we've seen plenty of Jedi in the EU deflect entire swaths of blasterfire with the Force. Tott Doneeta, a random Jedi in the Exar Kun period, blocked fire from the guns of a starship with a wave of his hand.

Grievous isn't a Jedi or Sith, and he's far more capable than the overwhelming majority of Force-users; more skilled, faster, stronger, and a quicker study.

And so long as you're bringing Grievous up; Obi-Wan, after quickly besting him in a duel, sends him flying several dozen meters through the air with a Force-push when the two are separated by mere inches. Kit Fisto floors him with a similar attack, and Mace hurls him off of a train after a somewhat prolonged duel, again with a Force-push. Some of the only scenes in which he repeatedly dodges Force-attacks are in the last volume of the CWC - which is contradicted by LoE and therefore the G-canon RotS novel - are possibly N-canon, although there may be one in the first volume when he attacks the exhausted, terrified, and stunned Jedi on Hypori.

Palpatine was overwhelming Mace Windu with his lightning while feigning weakness, and considering he managed to kill two of the Masters in one stroke apiece despite the first strike landing a good three or four seconds after he leapt from his desk, there's no way they would have been able to defend against his Force-attacks; a flick of the wrist or a wave of the hand are all that would be needed to dispose of them.

And most Jedi never even encounter a Sith, so unless they're particularly weak with the Force - in which case they're probably not comparatively good with a lightsaber either (see Johun Othone) - they realistically should be able to do just fine without a weapon.

So again, lightsabers exist to make the movies look cool. It's that simple. Most Jedi and Sith - especially the latter, whom Sidious notes would only use a lightsaber to "humiliate" the Jedi - should have no need for one.

Caedus and Vader deflected blaster bolts with their hands, but you can't block a lightsaber blade with your hand unless you're wearing a Mando guantlet.

Publius, even the two greatest Jedi Masters Luke and Yoda used lightsabers. Sith used lightsabers - the greats like Kun, Bane and Sidious used lightsabers because they were symbols of power. Jedi used them for symbols of hope.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Caedus and Vader deflected blaster bolts with their hands, but you can't block a lightsaber blade with your hand unless you're wearing a Mando guantlet.Vader blocked a lightsaber strike with the back of his hand in RoDV.

Don't forget the body armor Publius that kept Vader alive. That was armor tough.

It clearly wasn't lightsaber resistant. Several other blows inflicted notable damage, yet the one he consciously chose to block didn't go through; there was simply a wisp of smoke.

A strong Force shield could prevent the damage and Vader certainly had the power to throw up that kind of shield.

So there you go.

on a side note I would love to see someone strong in the force like Luke I guess fight some dark jedi or sith or whom ever and use the dissipate energy force power with his hand all the way down a lightsaber and grab the attackers hilt. that would be sweet. IMO.

Originally posted by Publius II
It clearly wasn't lightsaber resistant. Several other blows inflicted notable damage, yet the one he consciously chose to block didn't go through; there was simply a wisp of smoke. Didn't Vader have cortosis in his armor? I've heard that somewhere.

Well the armor did also take a strike from Luke that would have taken his arm and his neck off.

On his shoulder, not the back of his hand. And if it was cortosis, it would have simply shut the lightsaber off.

Not all cortosis has that affect.

What cortosis doesn't? There might be a weave or something, but even then it wouldn't be on his glove. He's had that hand struck or cut off at the wrist at least twice.

Originally posted by Publius II
What cortosis doesn't? There might be a weave or something, but even then it wouldn't be on his glove. He's had that hand struck or cut off at the wrist at least twice. Well to get all semantical: Luke's blade hit the leather bound wrist, not the actual glove. I think cortosis went something like: purer, unrefined cortosis made for poor armor but against a lightsaber it intercepted the loop of energy that forms the blade, short circuiting it temporarily. When manufactured into alloyed armor or swords it became capable of blocking a saber, but not shutting down.

I've never heard that before. I know the MagnaGuards' electrostaffs are made of some alloy that isn't cortosis and that Mandalorians have their own brand of iron, but that's about it as far as lightsaber deflection goes (to my knowledge).

the magna guards had phrik in their stave's and mandalorion iron is called beskar

Originally posted by Publius II
I've never heard that before. I know the MagnaGuards' electrostaffs are made of some alloy that isn't cortosis and that Mandalorians have their own brand of iron, but that's about it as far as lightsaber deflection goes (to my knowledge).

Kar Vastor and his Akk Guards were armed with shields made of a superconducting alloy that could block lightsabres as the blade's energy was instantly conducted away (Shatterpoint).

As stated above, electrostaffs are made of phrik.

Originally posted by Publius II
Misquote on your part.

And we've seen plenty of Jedi in the EU deflect entire swaths of blasterfire with the Force.

And we've seen plenty of Jedi who can't.

Originally posted by Publius II
Grievous isn't a Jedi or Sith, and he's far more capable than the overwhelming majority of Force-users; more skilled, faster, stronger, and a quicker study.

And so long as you're bringing Grievous up; Obi-Wan, after quickly besting him in a duel, sends him flying several dozen meters through the air with a Force-push when the two are separated by mere inches. Kit Fisto floors him with a similar attack, and Mace hurls him off of a train after a somewhat prolonged duel, again with a Force-push. Some of the only scenes in which he repeatedly dodges Force-attacks are in the last volume of the CWC - which is contradicted by LoE and therefore the G-canon RotS novel - are possibly N-canon, although there may be one in the first volume when he attacks the exhausted, terrified, and stunned Jedi on Hypori.

That's three guys, all of whom are at the top of the ladder. Now look at the numerous Jedi Grievous killed. Plus, if those three guys hadn't had their lightsabres they would have never survived long enough to do those pushes.

Originally posted by Publius II
Palpatine was overwhelming Mace Windu with his lightning while feigning weakness,

I'm sure the fact that said lightning was fired at point blank range had nothing to do with that.

Plus you'll notice that he was still blocking that lightning, seeing as he wasn't killed instantly. Do you honestly think Mace would have faired better bare-handed in that encounter?

Originally posted by Publius II
So again, lightsabers exist to make the movies look cool. It's that simple. Most Jedi and Sith - especially the latter, whom Sidious notes would only use a lightsaber to "humiliate" the Jedi - should have no need for one.

No lightsabres exist because the vast majority of Jedi/Sith need them and would be killed very quickly without them. It's that simple.

In short, if two Jedi/Sith fight, one has a lightsabre and the other doesn't, most of the time the armed one will win.

Plus, as Darth Truculent pointed out they have great power as symbols.

Okay, so let's say both sith/jedi have lightsabers, and one is very skilled in the force but not so good in swordsmanship, and the other one is very good with the lightsaber, but not so good with the force. Who is more likely to win? (A more general question would be which factor has a bigger impact on the result of a duel: skill in swordsmanship or skill in the force?)

The one strong in the force, s/he can block his/her opponents precognitive power and f*ck up their whole fighting style. They'd also be faster, stronger and look cooler.

Not to mention that they could just crush they're opponent by overwhelming their Force-defences before they even got within striking distance (see pretty much all of ROT Bane's fights)

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Kar Vastor and his Akk Guards were armed with shields made of a superconducting alloy that could block lightsabres as the blade's energy was instantly conducted away (Shatterpoint).That had as much to do with the fact that it was a vibroshield as it did the nature of the alloy itself, which is believed to have been scavenged from starship hulls. If a lightsaber was held against the shield, it would have melted.

I'm not sure you understand that I'm looking at this from an OOU perspective.Originally posted by chilled monkey
And we've seen plenty of Jedi who can't.We've never seen a Jedi fail to block blasterfire with the Force while attempting to, we've seen Jedi simply not try to block blasterfire with the Force. Hence, PIS, because all they would need to would be erect some sort of semisolid or at least tangible telekinetic barrier several feet outwards. The blaster bolt would "collide" with the barrier, and the energy would dissipate before hitting the Jedi provided they'd given themselves enough distance.

If the average Jedi on Geonosis could throw a solid-metal battle droid through the air with a wave of his hand, he could easily managed to erect a field with at least the necessary density to break a blaster bolt. If skin, flesh, and clothing break them, a weak forcefield could, too.

Obi-Wan and Kit Fisto are nowhere near the top of the ladder when it comes to power in the Force. Both are impressive, but there are many individuals in even their own era who appear to outclass them.

And count how many of them used the Force against him.

That's assuming they were retarded and ran at him with their bare hands instead of, y'know, just starting the fight by telekinetically tearing his lightsabers out of his hands.

Feigning weakness.

And please don't gloss over my points. Palpatine killed the first two Jedi Masters with one stroke apiece before Mace or Kit could intervene despite there being three or four seconds between the moment he leapt from his desk and the first stroke. That's a hell of a lot more body movement than a flick of the wrist, which is all it would take to kill at least two of the masters immediately. If three or four seconds isn't enough time for them to properly set up against Palpatine, they definitely won't be able to muster anything up in under one second.

Again, feigning weakness to stall for Anakin. The alternatives include throwing Mace out the window or snapping his neck.

No, but that's entirely situational; I never said that Jedi should never use a lightsaber. But in this case, it's like carrying around an RPG just in case a helicopter comes after you. PIS aside, the overwhelming majority of Jedi should be fully able to survive most situations Jedi tend to find themselves in, and they should be able to do so without a lightsaber. Dramatic necessity and aesthetics naturally demand otherwise.

Thanks to PIS, and that alone.

Again, you're apparently not understanding that I'm looking at this from an outside perspective, treating it as what it is. I'm not arguing the in-universe details much.

The average Sith would probably slaughter the average Jedi regardless of armament.

Sorry for reposting this but apparently not many people observed it.

Okay, so let's say both sith/jedi have lightsabers, and one is very skilled in the force but not so good in swordsmanship, and the other one is very good with the lightsaber, but not so good with the force. Who is more likely to win? (A more general question would be which factor has a bigger impact on the result of a duel: skill in swordsmanship or skill in the force?) Thanks for answers/opinions.

Originally posted by Darth N
Sorry for reposting this but apparently not many people observed it.

Okay, so let's say both sith/jedi have lightsabers, and one is very skilled in the force but not so good in swordsmanship, and the other one is very good with the lightsaber, but not so good with the force. Who is more likely to win? (A more general question would be which factor has a bigger impact on the result of a duel: skill in swordsmanship or skill in the force?) Thanks for answers/opinions. Usually the Force; a Jedi with less Force connection/training is a Jedi with less skill with a saber. If the Force-savvy opponent uses telekinesis or Force Lightning against the swordsman, then... the swordsman's chances of survival are poor. Existent, but poor.

I am going to say that the Jedi with the lightsaber will win if he manages to get up close. The Force requires focus to use, even for the most powerful of Jedi. If Jedi and Sith could just fling each other about all the time, they would do it.

I like this thread question because I am a noob myself. I am enjoying the discussion, but I must say that General Grievous still irritates me. The laws of the GFFA apparently permit him to contend with the Jedi very well, but it is hard to shut off the 'common sense' button sometimes.

A Jedi would surely wish to use the force to scrap him.

Actually its interesting on how the lightsaber is a uber of power. So many jedi and sith attach themselves to a tiny thing of light. A lightaber any weapon only achieves its worth from the user.

But a lightsaber is "special" because the jedi controls the force and binds it the lightsaber,it is what makes it function. The beam is the force itself and reflects the jedi's energy.

I like to say that they dont need one to have power or respect,but there are times that the force cant be used and only a lightsaber can save them in a battle. But just gainst a dark jedi or jed,yeah why would they need a lightsaber to fight? I say they can use the force and kill efficiently.

But truley there is no weapon that can compare to the powerf othe force,the force is life. Its god and devil,its in everything even in machines,its the particles coming from the universe or dark matter. It emanates from stars planets and is channeled from higher dimensions . The more power a jedi weilds the less he she is restricted to natural laws, they even can pass through solid objects or leave this plane and come back.

To me the lightsaber is a conduit to enhance or heip channe lthe force,yet it still is very limited.

...yeah, I don't think that that is canonically true about needing the Force to power a lightsaber. The Jedi become attached to the thing because it is part of their training and they are never without them if they can help it.

Originally posted by Alkaselzer
...yeah, I don't think that that is canonically true about needing the Force to power a lightsaber. The Jedi become attached to the thing because it is part of their training and they are never without them if they can help it.

Thank you. I didn't have the heart to tell him he is wrong.

I like to see it like this. The Force is the mastermind, while the lightsabers are the minions. The mastermind controls the minions, but you cannot win a war without them.

Although in the first scripts of Star Wars everyone was supposed to have a lightsaber ... And I'm glad they changed that. Imagine all the stormtroopers in A New Hope running around with lightsabers, that'd just ruin the 'amazing' battle between Obi and Vader.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Thank you. I didn't have the heart to tell him he is wrong.

Liar.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Thank you. I didn't have the heart to tell him he is wrong. He means well.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
He means well.

That's exactly why. It is harder to be a jerk to someone who doesn't know that they are wrong that manages to retain that earnestness inherent in one's first 15 posts.