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An article about non-white krptonians. I personally think its a good thing to have ethnic diverse alien races. I used to find its strange that most humanoid alien races where white. Like one of the actors in heroes stated it would be absurd to make all the heroes white and the characters should reflect the real world.

No doubt flaming will commence but this is not why I started this thread

Makes sense to me. Unless there's a very good reason that the aliens would all be one race they should show up in different colors. Even shapeshifting Martians ended up with different races.

It's fairly clear, however, that aliens in comics are not all white.

i honestly never even cared. the only kryptonians that matter are superman, supergirl, powergirl, prime, and kc superman, and i guess the deceased con-el also.

and guess what they are all white

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

It's fairly clear, however, that aliens in comics are not all white.

Not sure how this point is relevant. This is why I tried to emphasis humanoid aliens. Some aliens are green with pointy ears or have blue skin but when you have aliens that look like earthlings they tend to be white eg Krees have white and blue but no blacks.

For example when I was reading marvel universe they listed out all the alien races, there were loads of alien races that were white or had white ethnicity but there was only two alien races that had black ethnicity, Horusians and Contraxians.

does the ethinicty of a large number of races that we rearely see really bother you. and the fact that krees dont have blacks but have blues?

Originally posted by jalek moye
does the ethinicty of a large number of races that we rearely see really bother you. and the fact that krees dont have blacks but have blues?

Not now but it was when I was growing up......

Now I would welcome it but I wouldnt lose any sleep.

the only thing i've ever cared about was who they were as people and their powers and stuff.

the ethnicty never mattered to me since it never helped me relate in any way

Originally posted by jalek moye
the only thing i've ever cared about was who they were as people and their powers and stuff.

the ethnicty never mattered to me since it never helped me relate in any way

You might have grown up at a different time and had different experiences, it would matter less now. Anyway its never only been about ethnicity, ive never really liked Black Panther that much.

With the Kryptonians, it's never troubled me they were humanoid; they make it work for the origin story of Superman. Jor-El chose Earth because humans were very close to them genetically. The fact they were all Caucasian looking also didn't bother me - they have lived to an age where society was sterile & arrogant, which helped seal their doom when it came. Conformity was a very major part of their lives.

Originally posted by roughrider
With the Kryptonians, it's never troubled me they were humanoid; they make it work for the origin story of Superman. Jor-El chose Earth because humans were very close to them genetically. The fact they were all Caucasian looking also didn't bother me - they have lived to an age where society was sterile & arrogant, which helped seal their doom when it came. Conformity was a very major part of their lives.

Um why would Kyrptonians being humanoid and white bother you in the first place?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Um why would Kyrptonians being humanoid and white bother you in the first place?

Racism.

Krees are have two races, they are also a major racist race in the universe, the Badoon are sexist to the dome. I don't recall any other race related to extraterrestials, Eternals and Deviants have different races and they don't seem to have problems with that.

well my opinion is it really doesn't matter what color the race is as long as the story is entertaining....seriously be it alien or human or humanoid alien....the only time i have ever had a problem with the color of anything is if they change the color of someone who already is one race but only because that's not how it was...like superman for instance i can see him being another color in another dimension but not other wise....soo for the color of the humanoid aliens...i think it doesn't matter as long as the story is entertaining.

At least in DC, it's been mentioned before that one of the reasons Earth keeps on getting involved with Interstellar events is because it's one of the few planets in the Universe that has its level of genetic diversity.

I don't know if that's a round-about way of DC defending the fact that they once put all of the black Kryptonians on Vathlo Island, "The Home of a Highly Advanced Black Race."

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Um why would Kyrptonians being humanoid and white bother you in the first place?

It didn't. Hence the discussion in this thread. The need to show black kryptonians now - to address some sense of imbalance the writers perceive - strikes me as unnecessary.

The Kree, with their tangled history of blue & pink genetic lines, came along at a different time. Marvel was trying to parallel what they saw in the 1960's civil rights movement, put into a science fiction setting.

Originally posted by tjcoady
At least in DC, it's been mentioned before that one of the reasons Earth keeps on getting involved with Interstellar events is because it's one of the few planets in the Universe that has its level of genetic diversity.

I don't know if that's a round-about way of DC defending the fact that they once put all of the black Kryptonians on Vathlo Island, "The Home of a Highly Advanced Black Race." NOt just that but it is the most emotional diverse planet in the universe and the lynchpin of the multiverse.

Now I think I get it. Sparthoids and stuff like that right? As in races that look human and seem to be just white when they appear?

Is there anything to said about them?

Originally posted by roughrider
It didn't. Hence the discussion in this thread. The need to show black kryptonians now - to address some sense of imbalance the writers perceive - strikes me as unnecessary.

Well I dont know where you're from but to be quite honest with you if you were white you might not be that bothered eg I think its cool that Bishop is Aborginal but my main concern is with black characters.

I dont see whats wrong with somebody from a minority wanting to see more minority characters in a universe that is based on this one. However im not particularly bothered now there are enough black superheroes in the mainstream in DC for me not to be bothered that much.

Originally posted by roughrider

The Kree, with their tangled history of blue & pink genetic lines, came along at a different time. Marvel was trying to parallel what they saw in the 1960's civil rights movement, put into a science fiction setting.

Yeah I figured it had something to do with that.

Originally posted by Bentley
Now I think I get it. Sparthoids and stuff like that right? As in races that look human and seem to be just white when they appear?

Is there anything to said about them?

Um...what?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well I dont know where you're from but to be quite honest with you if you were white you might not be that bothered eg I think its cool that Bishop is Aborginal but my main concern is with black characters.


well they have enough ones in comics now adays that people who complain they want more black chars probbly just dont know many so they assume there are none. Another problem is non comic readers complaining about it. While there is nothing wrong with adding minority ones its pointless to add unneeded chars that just happen to be one

Originally posted by jalek moye
well they have enough ones in comics now adays that people who complain they want more black chars probbly just dont know many so they assume there are none. Another problem is non comic readers complaining about it.


I dont have a problem with DC but it seems that Marvel seem to be lacking in this area. Im mainly talking about mainstream black characters, if you added all the black superheroes in the marvel universe it would be alot but it would still be alot less than white.

Originally posted by jalek moye

While there is nothing wrong with adding minority ones its pointless to add unneeded chars that just happen to be one

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I dont have a problem with DC but it seems that Marvel seem to be lacking in this area. Im mainly talking about mainstream black characters, if you added all the black superheroes in the marvel universe it would be alot but it would still be alot less than white.
well it should be alot less then white seeing as how most of their mainstream stories take place in the U.S. But they could use a little more mainstream or bump up some of the c listers. Aslong as they arnt copies of mainstream chars with different ethnicites

Thor is slavic

Originally posted by Bentley
Thor is slavic
Thor is asgardian

Originally posted by jalek moye
well it should be alot less then white seeing as how most of their mainstream stories take place in the U.S.

I actually worked out the number of black mutants to white and it came to something like 2%. Thats nowhere near representative of the US

Originally posted by jalek moye

But they could use a little more mainstream or bump up some of the c listers.

Yeah I think bringing back Black Goliath was stupid, that guy sucked. Thats precisly what were talking about. Hudlin brought him back simply because he was black. Instead of bringing back a character that sucked he could have created a better black superhero.

Im suprised Hudlin hasnt done this, its a perfect opportunity.

Originally posted by jalek moye

Aslong as they arnt copies of mainstream chars with different ethnicites


Agreed.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
.

Im suprised Hudlin hasnt done this, its a perfect opportunity.


because if he does the char will be way over the top, and end up with his blackpower being almighty or something silly

You know, I'm just talking about kryptonians here. It's not because I'm white, that I want to see white characters everywhere in comics. Because the world is more diverse than that.

And I don't think getting with the times meaning having to change everything, always. I wonder if the filmmakers behind The Lord Of The Rings, felt pressure to put in dark-skinned, non-white elves or hobbits, to counter the dark-skinned orc & goblin armies (along with their human allies, 'darker- skinned' men from the south.) But, they stuck to what Tolkien created, and there was few charges of a subconscious racial bias in showing good vs. evil.
Not like the charges of racism George Lucas got for Star Wars & The Empire Strikes Back ( Darth Vader is a black villian, they charged.) Lucas claims he got complaints about how they were no puerto ricans in SW, saying you can't win these things.

Originally posted by roughrider
You know, I'm just talking about kryptonians here. It's not because I'm white, that I want to see white characters everywhere in comics. Because the world is more diverse than that.

Kinda confused, I didnt say you wanted to see white characters everywhere im just stating if you are white you would be less concerned, not because you are racist but its just human nature.


Originally posted by roughrider

And I don't think getting with the times meaning having to change everything, always. I wonder if the filmmakers behind The Lord Of The Rings, felt pressure to put in dark-skinned, non-white elves or hobbits, to counter the dark-skinned orc & goblin armies (along with their human allies, 'darker- skinned' men from the south.) But, they stuck to what Tolkien created, and there was few charges of a subconscious racial bias in showing good vs. evil.

Middle-Earth was based alot on Norse Lore where there were hardly any black people so theres no need to add black characters in that setting.

I dont think it has anything to do with the time but just letting a reality based on our own reality be realistic in terms of ethnicity.

Originally posted by roughrider

Not like the charges of racism George Lucas got for Star Wars & The Empire Strikes Back ( Darth Vader is a black villian, they charged.) Lucas claims he got complaints about how they were no puerto ricans in SW, saying you can't win these things.

Anyway that sux I guess but still doesnt change the fact thats its good to have mimorities in a world based on our own. Like one oif the actors in Heroes said it would be absurd to make all the characters white because obvously if there was a superhuman gene it would affect all races.

Do you remember when they started to put in black vulcans in Star Trek, for the Voyager series?
Some might consider that addressing an imbalance. I think it was unnecessary (or maybe because that particular actor looked silly with the pointed ears.)

Originally posted by roughrider
Do you remember when they started to put in black vulcans in Star Trek, for the Voyager series?
Some might consider that addressing an imbalance. I think it was unnecessary (or maybe because that particular actor looked silly with the pointed ears.)


As a black person why on earth would I find it silly? You have white vulcans why cant you have black ones? Is alien DNA more llikely to become caucasian or something?

Its a similar thing to what the guy in heroes said eventhough its not based on earth you would expect their to be black aliens if there were white ones.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Its a similar thing to what the guy in heroes said eventhough its not based on earth you would expect their to be black aliens if there were white ones.

Considering they're aliens I can't see any reason we should expect that.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
As a black person why on earth would I find it silly? You have white vulcans why cant you have black ones? Is alien DNA more llikely to become caucasian or something?

Its a similar thing to what the guy in heroes said eventhough its not based on earth you would expect their to be black aliens if there were white ones.
i dont see why an alien race that devlops white looking people needs to develop black ones. the kree have white and blue but no black. The skrulls are just green. You don't have to have multiple ethnicites for aliens just human chars.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Considering they're aliens I can't see any reason we should expect that.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

Its a similar thing to what the guy in heroes said eventhough its not based on earth you would expect their to be black aliens if there were white ones.



Originally posted by jalek moye
i dont see why an alien race that devlops white looking people needs to develop black ones. the kree have white and blue but no black. The skrulls are just green. You don't have to have multiple ethnicites for aliens just human chars.

That because its a fictional universe. In a fictional universe most superhumans in marvel come from the USA, like the actor in heros said it would be absurd for there to be only white superhumans because obvoulsy if there was a superhuman gene it wouldnt just make white superhumans. The same principle could be applied to aliens.

You are also growing up in less racist times so its fo less concern, but like I said im not particularly bothered now but in the past it did bother me.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
That because its a fictional universe. In a fictional universe most superhumans in marvel come from the USA, like the actor in heros said it would be absurd for there to be only white superhumans because obvoulsy if there was a superhuman gene it wouldnt just make white superhumans. The same principle could be applied to aliens.

but it shouldn't be. I'm fine not seeing a purple skrull or anything weird like that. and i think krees are fine without having blacks just white and blue. Some alien races might only be white becuase the area where their people come from develops that. I support multiracial human chars but not always aliens ones.

Originally posted by jalek moye
but it shouldn't be. I'm fine not seeing a purple skrull or anything weird like that. and i think krees are fine without having blacks just white and blue. Some alien races might only be white becuase the area where their people come from develops that. I support multiracial human chars but not always aliens ones.

I see what you're saying but I think you're missing the point. The same way we expect to see black superhumans we should expect to see black aliens.

Sure on some planets its possible for there to be only white aliens, but when you have loads of white aliens and no black aliens then it becomes strange.

You wouldnt expect the X-gene to affect only white people would you expect an alien gene to only create white humanoids?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I see what you're saying but I think you're missing the point. The same way we expect to see black superhumans we should expect to see black aliens.

Sure on some planets its possible for there to be only white aliens, but when you have loads of white aliens and no black aliens then it becomes strange.

You wouldnt expect the X-gene to affect only white people would you expect an alien gene to only create white humanoids?

i'm not saying only create white ones. but just dont add black ones to existing ones that havnt shown any

Originally posted by jalek moye
i'm not saying only create white ones. but just dont add black ones to existing ones that havnt shown any

You know something I think I agree.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I see what you're saying but I think you're missing the point. The same way we expect to see black superhumans we should expect to see black aliens.

Sure on some planets its possible for there to be only white aliens, but when you have loads of white aliens and no black aliens then it becomes strange.



Does this address the imbalance?

*shrug* Yeah it does but obvouldy back in the day those were far and few between.

Originally posted by roughrider
Does this address the imbalance?

isnt that the same guy that got shot up by a big white robot in terminator 2?

Originally posted by Raoul
isnt that the same guy that got shot up by a big white robot in terminator 2?

Oh, you mean Linda Hamilton?
Yeah, that's right.

Originally posted by roughrider
Oh, you mean Linda Hamilton?
Yeah, that's right.



close enough.

Kingons.

well you gotta take into consderation that the ppl just wanted to sell comics even if they themsleves had to sell out sort of....remember the the whole industry as we know it now was singlehandedly created by a bunch of jewish,(and other immigrants) 20 somethings literally like in thier parents basement...and they werent in any position to come outta the gate swinging for social cuases. thats why Jacob Kurtzberg, and Stanley Lieber among others had to change and/or shorten thier names...to combat the open and accepted racism of that time..

me personally, i dont give two shits either way, ive never wondered why there werent any black kryptonians cuz all i cared about was supes...but the thing i found hilarious was that there were aliens in comicdom of all colors and shades except black....unless it was literally the actual color "black"...black K-tonians showing up now is not a bad thing to me at all, but i dont think it should be made into a primary issue though...then it would just seem cheap and lame to me...and dont forget insulting

this is completely off topic but, I despise the power balance between minorities and white characters. they always seem to be oozing potential where as minorities are typically street level

Originally posted by manjaro
well you gotta take into consderation that the ppl just wanted to sell comics even if they themsleves had to sell out sort of....remember the the whole industry as we know it now was singlehandedly created by a bunch of jewish,(and other immigrants) 20 somethings literally like in thier parents basement...and they werent in any position to come outta the gate swinging for social cuases. thats why Jacob Kurtzberg, and Stanley Lieber among others had to change and/or shorten thier names...to combat the open and accepted racism of that time..


Yeah sure.

Originally posted by manjaro

me personally, i dont give two shits either way, ive never wondered why there werent any black kryptonians cuz all i cared about was supes...but the thing i found hilarious was that there were aliens in comicdom of all colors and shades except black....unless it was literally the actual color "black"...black K-tonians showing up now is not a bad thing to me at all, but i dont think it should be made into a primary issue though...then it would just seem cheap and lame to me...and dont forget insulting

Well yeah to be quite honest im not even a DC fan let alone Superman fan I just think its cool.


Originally posted by Sin I AM
this is completely off topic but, I despise the power balance between minorities and white characters. they always seem to be oozing potential where as minorities are typically street level

Maybe thats because people associate black as 'street'.

cute

Honestly I would think a super advanced civilization like the Kryptonians should be a uniform mix off all races without any sort of colour distinction left like I'm sure the human race will be somewhere down the line, but our buddy Clark Kent is about as white as you can get so I guess it makes sense.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
this is completely off topic but, I despise the power balance between minorities and white characters. they always seem to be oozing potential where as minorities are typically street level

umm, the spectre?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Kingons.

there's an 'l' in there somewhere...

Originally posted by Raoul
there's an 'l' in there somewhere...

Are you saying they're not kings?

Racist.

Perhaps Phantom Zone's point is - if there are humanoid alien races out there like Kryptonians or Vulcans, then they should be raised in an enviroment similar to Earth; so, there should be different coloured versions of them in the seperate corners of their planet. Just like Earth.
If that is his point, then I concede there's something to that.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
this is completely off topic but, I despise the power balance between minorities and white characters. they always seem to be oozing potential where as minorities are typically street level

Spawn
Spectre
Icon


. . .


Black Panther?

Originally posted by roughrider
Perhaps Phantom Zone's point is -

That actually sounds quite patronsing when my point was quite simple, you also make it sound like nobody got my point.

Originally posted by roughrider

if there are humanoid alien races out there like Kryptonians or Vulcans, then they should be raised in an enviroment similar to Earth; so, there should be different coloured versions of them in the seperate corners of their planet. Just like Earth.
If that is his point, then I concede there's something to that.

It doesnt neccesarily have to be a similar evinronment but having a similar evinronment helps.

Even if the envinronment was drastically different but created white aliens by default it should also be able to create black aliens to.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Are you saying they're not kings?

Racist.

cry

This thread reminds me of that one GL issue where a black guy tells Hal how he heard about him helping the blue skinned people, orange skinned people, etc. but he never did anything for the black skinned people

Does anyone have that scan?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
This thread reminds me of that one GL issue where a black guy tells Hal how he heard about him helping the blue skinned people, orange skinned people, etc. but he never did anything for the black skinned people

Does anyone have that scan?

it should be on wiki, iirc.

just in case...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6f/GLGA76BS.jpg

lol

question. in the case of the kree their is white and blue. thats ethnic. i mean why does ethnic need to mean 'black' ? im puerto rican and am bummed out not to have any real cool hispanic heroes but i always figured when it cames to aliens the kree where the only with any diversity other than earth. yet i see ppl complaing about the kree.

kree are pink or blue.. what i want to see are black Shi'ar.

i see the need to ask why, why are the majority of the aliens shown just white, or just...uhh..skrully lol. id love to see a planet of peaceful but powerful black ppl. it would be badass. i think alien spieces that share our looks and have similar biology should have some sort of Ethnicity.
be it black, blue or green =D just not all white/pink.

Icon is a black alien. enjoy him until more come.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
im puerto rican and am bummed out not to have any real cool hispanic heroes vibe comes to mind...... nevermind, he's not cool.

I'm a bit confused. Why the hell would you expect any kind of alien species to have similar skin colors or be multi-racial ala Earth if they're FREAKING ALIENS?

Darkseid is grey. Stone grey. So is Thanos. Adam Warlock is yellow goldish. Surfer is chrome. Ronan the Accuser is light blue. So are the Guardians. Sinestro is ****ing pink. Mysa Nall of the LSH is solid white.

And these are just the bipedal humanoid races. There are countless races that have no human shape to begin with.

Expecting a black skin color just to conform to some vague HUMAN idea of ethnicity is idiotic. Do you need them to conform to human standards of behavior and morality too?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I'm a bit confused. Why the hell would you expect any kind of alien species to have similar skin colors or be multi-racial ala Earth if they're FREAKING ALIENS?

Darkseid is grey. Stone grey. So is Thanos. Adam Warlock is yellow goldish. Surfer is chrome. Ronan the Accuser is light blue. So are the Guardians. Sinestro is ****ing pink. Mysa Nall of the LSH is solid white.

And these are just the bipedal humanoid races. There are countless races that have no human shape to begin with.

Expecting a black skin color just to conform to some vague HUMAN idea of ethnicity is idiotic. Do you need them to conform to human standards of behavior and morality too?

If you're going to be a dick about it like you usually are in dbates.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I see what you're saying but I think you're missing the point. The same way we expect to see black superhumans we should expect to see black aliens.

Sure on some planets its possible for there to be only white aliens, but when you have loads of white aliens and no black aliens then it becomes strange.

You wouldnt expect the X-gene to affect only white people would you expect an alien gene to only create white humanoids?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

An article about non-white krptonians. I personally think its a good thing to have ethnic diverse alien races. I used to find its strange that most humanoid alien races where white. Like one of the actors in heroes stated it would be absurd to make all the heroes white and the characters should reflect the real world.



In a nutshell with regards to alien races? Most established comicbook characters/franchises/groups etc were created over 40 years ago. Ethnic minorities then were either absent,rare or poorly portrayed in all forms of media.It is just how things were. Ergo most alien races would be shown as white, just as most characters would be white.*shrugs*

Guess that's why a lot of newer characters are more diverse.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
If you're going to be a dick about it like you usually are in dbates.
he has a point those other colors are ethnic too.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I'm a bit confused. Why the hell would you expect any kind of alien species to have similar skin colors or be multi-racial ala Earth if they're FREAKING ALIENS?

Darkseid is grey. Stone grey. So is Thanos. Adam Warlock is yellow goldish. Surfer is chrome. Ronan the Accuser is light blue. So are the Guardians. Sinestro is ****ing pink. Mysa Nall of the LSH is solid white.

And these are just the bipedal humanoid races. There are countless races that have no human shape to begin with.

Expecting a black skin color just to conform to some vague HUMAN idea of ethnicity is idiotic. Do you need them to conform to human standards of behavior and morality too?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
http://www.birkoph.com/owned/owned_help.jpg

Trick just LAID DOWN THE LAW

Originally posted by jalek moye
he has a point those other colors are ethnic too.

No he doesnt. Lets takes this for example

I'm a bit confused. Why the hell would you expect any kind of alien species to have similar skin colors or be multi-racial ala Earth if they're FREAKING ALIENS?

The point is they do. I dont expect aliens to resemble humans but if they resemble white people I would expect aliens to resemble black people.

This part of his post was really moronic.

Expecting a black skin color just to conform to some vague HUMAN idea of ethnicity is idiotic. Do you need them to conform to human standards of behavior and morality too?

LOL dont comic creators base alien characters on humans? So basically hes implying that its idiotic for aliens to conform to human standards of behiaviour when aliens actually do and somehow think that backs up his point about ethncity, the guys a moron.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No he doesnt. Lets takes this for example

I'm a bit confused. Why the hell would you expect any kind of alien species to have similar skin colors or be multi-racial ala Earth if they're FREAKING ALIENS?

The point is they do. I dont expect aliens to resemble humans but if they resemble white people I would expect aliens to resemble black people.

This part of his post was really moronic.

Expecting a black skin color just to conform to some vague HUMAN idea of ethnicity is idiotic. Do you need them to conform to human standards of behavior and morality too?

LOL dont comic creators base alien characters on humans? So basically hes implying that its idiotic for aliens to conform to human standards of behiaviour when aliens actually do and somehow think that backs up his point about ethncity, the guys a moron.
i was talking about his point with humaniod ones that are grey and all other kinds of crazy colors

Originally posted by jalek moye
i was talking about his point with humaniod ones that are grey and all other kinds of crazy colors

...and what point does that prove? The whole point of his post was to somehow prove what I was saying was idiotic, the guy even in his own post even provided reasons as to why you should have black aliens and he didnt even notice.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
...and what point does that prove? The whole point of his post was to somehow prove what I was saying was idiotic, the guy even in his own post even provided reasons as to why you should have black aliens and he didnt even notice.
that just becasue they are human like does mean they have to have the same ethnicities. even though his post for more of a bash against you that statement was actually good.

Originally posted by jalek moye
that just becasue they are human like does mean they have to have the same ethnicities. even though his post for more of a bash against you that statement was actually good.

The statement itself was good but his whole argument was complete and utter fail. I wouldnt expect aliens to resemble humans at all but if I kept meeting white aliens I would find it strange for there to be no black ones. If no aliens in comics looked nothing like human beings then he would have a point.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
LOL dont comic creators base alien characters on humans?

nowadays, not really, actually.

Originally posted by Raoul
nowadays, not really, actually.

Please elaborate because that seems to be impossible. Human beings cant help using humanity as a basis.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Please elaborate because that seems to be impossible. Human beings cant help using humanity as a basis.
then you havnt seen how weird things in outspace in DC comics

Originally posted by jalek moye
then you havnt seen how weird things in outspace in DC comics

I was mainly concerned with human behaviour in that quote.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Please elaborate because that seems to be impossible. Human beings cant help using humanity as a basis.

yes, a basis that they make their aliens as different from as possible. look at kryb, or the orange lanterns, or the annihilation wave. they don't just look different, they act different.

Originally posted by Raoul
yes, a basis that they make their aliens as different from as possible. look at kryb, or the orange lanterns, or the annihilation wave. they don't just look different, they act different.


....so what happened to all the human looking and acting aliens in the A-Wave? So because there are lots of non human looking and acting aliens, means that nowhere days they dont base aliens on humans, despite the fact there are loads of examples of human looking and acting aliens?

It could be argued the reason why the A-wavw was non-human looking was because they were supposed to be scary and even then Annihilus does actually resemble a human being like Hitler.

What about the Blue Lanterns and Atrocitus and The Red lanterns? Remember where not just talking about appearance but behaviour.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
....so what happened to all the human looking and acting aliens in the A-Wave? So because there are lots of non human looking and acting aliens, means that nowhere days they dont base aliens on humans, despite the fact there are loads of examples of human looking and acting aliens?

It could be argued the reason why the A-wavw was non-human looking was because they were supposed to be scary and even then Annihilus does actually resemble a human being like Hitler.

What about the Blue Lanterns and Atrocitus and The Red lanterns? Remember where not just talking about appearance but behaviour.

human acting and looking aliens? like the kree, who've been around for donkeys years?

i'm talking about brand new aliens, say, in the last decade. for every single one that may act even remotely human, there's always two or three that are different.

Atrocitus and the Red Lanterns are nothing like humans. The lanterns themselves are driven purely by an instinctual hate. they don't have rationality or compassion or anything else. atrocitus is an evil bastard, even if he is a little rational. even the most evil of humans loves something.

i think people also have to consider that, when it comes to people like saint walker and the blue lanterns, that them being white isn't a social or racial thing. they aren't being made caucasion (and i really need to stress the difference here). they're being made WHITE. a colour which doesn't exist among human kind, bar albinos, who are social outcasts. irony ftw.

people that we would call "white" are really bright shades of brown or pink.

in the case of the kryptonians, sure, diversity is nice. any race without asian women is losing out, imo. as regards the kree and so on? nah...

Also, Paul, remember that rational is pretty relative.

What may seem like rational choices to us, might not be to them.

Originally posted by Raoul
human acting and looking aliens? like the kree,

You spoke about making aliens look as different as possible and gave the A-Wave as an example alot of the A-Wave looked like insects including Annihilus. So obvoulsy on the other side of the spectrum in not just talking about aliens with blue skin like the Kree but that includes aliens with green skin pointy ears and other weird features that look strange but still have simliarities to humans and act human eg Thanos's small companion (who basically looked like a fairy) ...and there are many more examples.




Originally posted by Raoul

i'm talking about brand new aliens, say, in the last decade. for every single one that may act even remotely human, there's always two or three that are different.

Again its going to be another case of me having to take your word for it while the facts I know dont support your argument. Thanos had a limited series and in that series there were loads of new aliens. Even some of the A-Wave looked human such as The Centurions.

Originally posted by Raoul

Atrocitus and the Red Lanterns are nothing like humans. The lanterns themselves are driven purely by an instinctual hate. they don't have rationality or compassion or anything else. atrocitus is an evil bastard, even if he is a little rational. even the most evil of humans loves something.

As you know im mainly a marvel man so I really cant comment on DC, however marvel does not support your case.

Originally posted by Raoul

i think people also have to consider that, when it comes to people like saint walker and the blue lanterns, that them being white isn't a social or racial thing. they aren't being made caucasion (and i really need to stress the difference here). they're being made WHITE. a colour which doesn't exist among human kind, bar albinos, who are social outcasts. irony ftw.

You seem to be saying two thing:

1. The Blue lanterns behave like humans, which doesnt support your argument.
2. Them not being white isnt racial. I never said it was, but maybe you are adding your 2cents.

Eternals are based off of humans, because they behave like them.

Eternals came before humans, but whatevas. Acting like human beings clearly mean you were based off of them.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Eternals are based off of humans, because they behave like them.

Eternals came before humans, but whatevas. Acting like human beings clearly mean you were based off of them.

Eternals arent aliens unless they rectconned that shit.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Eternals arent aliens unless they rectconned that shit.

Once again, there's the definition of alien.

You think that because humans have displayed compassion or kindness, the blue lanterns are somehow based off of humans, simply because they display those traits.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Once again, there's the definition of alien.

Eternals are from earth so there no point in bringing them up.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze

You think that because humans have displayed compassion or kindness, the blue lanterns are somehow based off of humans, simply because they display those traits.

No I dont. Humans tend to create thing based on what they know, hell even back in the day when people worshipped pagans gods they tend to give them human characteristics. You have paintings of God and angels with human features and writers tend to base characters on aspects of their personality and people they know, so obvoulsy its an assumption that the Blue lanterns are based on humans. Yeah I see what you're saying.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Also, Paul, remember that rational is pretty relative.

What may seem like rational choices to us, might not be to them.

of course.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You spoke about making aliens look as different as possible and gave the A-Wave as an example alot of the A-Wave looked like insects including Annihilus. So obvoulsy on the other side of the spectrum in not just talking about aliens with blue skin like the Kree but that includes aliens with green skin pointy ears and other weird features that look strange but still have simliarities to humans and act human eg Thanos's small companion (who basically looked like a fairy) ...and there are many more examples.

so what, you want more diversity within those races?



i didn't say none, i said they were outnumbered, which they tend to be.



in several cases it does. look at the race that vulcan fought recently, the insectlike people. some of hulk's warbound, etc.



1. How?
2. I don't follow.

Guys to end this debate without having read any of the thread........

..........it shouldn't matter if you are or aren't Black, White, Yellow, Green, Red, Blue or any other colour's, visible or invisible......


Except the Purpley ones. We should round all them up at once chair

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Trick just LAID DOWN THE LAW even though i think this topic is kinda lame, i have to point out why trick in this case is not completely right.

anyone who watched the original star trek knows that almost all the actors were played by caucasians, even the alien characters. but even though they were wearing makeup and prosthetic, it was plain as day that the "alien" was very much a caucasian humanoid with like blue skin and brow ridges, that's the weird thing. comic aliens from the golden age are almost exactly the same, apart from uxas, kalibak, and black racer, all apocaliptians and new genesians (if that's what they're called) are caucasian.

--------------------------------------------------------



but to derail this thread, marvel and dc imitated a lot from star trek when it comes to off world ideas and races. so it's natural that they too fallow that trend. also, when the majority of the legendary comic characters were being created and established, it was the freakin 60's! blackspliotation was in full effect, the world socially was changing, and the civil rights movement was just under way, that's why in the late 60's we got the new characters like black panther and in the 70's the new squad of x-men consisting of a russian, an african woman (though born in america), a german, an irishman, a canadian, and native american in a major now legendary comic. basically the civil rights movement helped every race/gender/nationality get "panel time" so, i guess blame it on the times man.

it's 2009 and american just elected their first non-caucasian president and a woman could have easily been elected also, things aren't totally dire in that department.

Originally posted by Raoul

so what, you want more diversity within those races?


The point is you stated that aliens these days are nothing like humans or are extremely different eg A-Wave. Im merely pointing out to you that if we have lots of aliens that look like Skrulls for example that is an example of aliens that dont fit into your category. Alot of the aliens in the Thanos series were like that they looked different from humans but were cleary based and acted like humans.

Originally posted by Raoul

i didn't say none,

LOL I know you didnt you missed the point.

Originally posted by Raoul

i said they were outnumbered, which they tend to be.

Again are you going to stop stating something like its fact without proving it? The whole point I was making is that hardly (or none) any of the aliens in the Thanos series fit your category of extremely different aliens. You have extremely different aliens in the A-wave but again all this means is that those type of aliens outnumbered the other types in that particular crossover not for the marvel universe in general.


Originally posted by Raoul

in several cases it does. look at the race that vulcan fought recently, the insectlike people. some of hulk's warbound, etc.

Your not helping yourself by bringing up the warbound. Some of the invasion force mainly included insect like aliens but characters like Hiriom and Korg are members of species that possibly include millions of people like them. You could argue that the invasion force consisted of more strange looking creatrures that were vastly different from humans but back on Skar im not so sure.

Also in the infinite abyss series we see human looking and acting aliens. So theres nothing conclusive that writers nowhere days are creating more (If I dont highlight this you'll probably repeat the same thing and tell me I dont get the point) extremely weird looking and acting aliens.


Originally posted by Raoul

1. How?
2. I don't follow.

Nevermind. Oh yeah the red lanterns as aliens themselves seem to be still based on humans, what makes them act differently isnt becaue they are aleins but their red power rings. Liara didnt act like that until she got her power ring.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
The point is you stated that aliens these days are nothing like humans or are extremely different eg A-Wave. Im merely pointing out to you that if we have lots of aliens that look like Skrulls for example that is an example of aliens that dont fit into your category. Alot of the aliens in the Thanos series were like that they looked different from humans but were cleary based and acted like humans.

i didn't say that at all. i said that aliens created within the last decade or so, as in, new alien races, tend to more often than not be as different from humans as possible. i'm not saying there are none like humans, i'm just saying that nowadays artists like to flex their creative muscles and come up with new, unique looking aliens.



you should make it clear then, seriously.



everything i state. let me repeat that. EVERYTHING. everything i state is my own opinion. to some people i'm notorious for putting too many imo's in my posts.



i used the warbound to illustrate that there are plenty of non human looking aliens, thats all. so yes, it does actually help me illustrate my point.



again, read what i wrote.



no shit. i know who laira is. i was talking about the group as a collective, not individuals. all the corps have human looking aliens, all the corps also have aliens who don't.

you're not listening to what i'm saying. i'm not denying that there are human looking races. what i'm saying is that nowadays, when an artist is tasked with creating a new alien race, more often than not they will go to town on making their aliens as funky looking as possible.

look at the sinestro corps. there are human looking members, but several artists had to come up with new, scary alien races, which they did.

they only tend to anthropomorphise aliens when the main characters need someone to interact with on any deep level. soranik natu needed to have a nice rack to make kyle rayner attracted to her, and the hulk was never going to marry a chick that looked like the brood queen (yet another marvel race that is as unhuman as it gets. not to mention the phalanx).

to go back to the first post:

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/010906-Supermen-Color.html

An article about non-white krptonians. I personally think its a good thing to have ethnic diverse alien races. I used to find its strange that most humanoid alien races where white. Like one of the actors in heroes stated it would be absurd to make all the heroes white and the characters should reflect the real world.

No doubt flaming will commence but this is not why I started this thread

you seem to be operating under the assumption that "white" is an equivalent of caucasion. caucasion kryptonians? ok, granted, so lets give them black kyrptonians. they're obviously based on humanity to a large extent, even when it comes down to skin tone (something tells me the population of earth wouldnt have taken superman to their hearts if he had three arms and lilac skin), it fits.

when it comes to other races? there seems to be a kind of reverse racism going on in your post. there seems to be the assumption that being a blue kree, a white (as in, white, not caucasion) member of saint walker's race, a grey member of Caiera's race, etc etc, is some galactic equivalent of being caucasian. it isn't. at all. some alien races have one colour, some have two, but the entire point of making alien characters is to make new, exciting characters that are not human. that means being different. if they make CAUCASIAN aliens, then sure, you could go and make black, asian, latino and puerto rican members of said race. if they aren't caucasian, then no, i don't see a reason to bring in different coloured aliens.

earth is generally considered (in both companies) to be the most diverse planet in the universe. thats something i will never have a problem with.

Originally posted by Raoul
i didn't say that at all. i said that aliens created within the last decade or so, as in, new alien races, tend to more often than not be as different from humans as POSSIBLE. i'm not saying there are none like humans, i'm just saying that nowadays artists like to flex their creative muscles and come up with new, unique looking aliens.


You know what that sounds like? Its like I explained what you said and then you repeated it back to me and said I didnt understand it, Jesus Christ Roaul.

Making aliens as different as possible? Is it me but doesnt that mean they make them look as different from humans as possible? You know isnt making them look as different from humans as possible mean the same thing as extremely different, or similar?

Again I didnt say you said none, I said you said most I even highlighted the word more. Also look at this quote below

Originally posted by Raoul
yes, a basis that they make their aliens as different from as possible. look at kryb, or the orange lanterns, or the annihilation wave. they don't just look different, they act different.

You've seen the A-Wave werent alot of those aliens just like insects? Dont you think that alien that looks like an insect is extremely different from humans and dont you think this quote implies this you are refering to aliens that are extremely different?


Originally posted by Raoul
everything i state. let me repeat that. EVERYTHING. everything i state is my own opinion. to some people i'm notorious for putting too many imo's in my posts.

No you dont, you dictate.

Originally posted by Raoul

i used the warbound to illustrate that there are plenty of non human looking aliens, thats all. so yes, it does actually help me illustrate my point.

....your overall point is that the MAJORITY of aliens are more crazy looking, it doesnt prove your point because those are just specific circumstance but not overall.

Originally posted by Raoul

again, read what i wrote.



Originally posted by Raoul

what i'm saying is that nowadays, when an artist is tasked with creating a new alien race, more often than not they will go to town on making their aliens as funky looking as possible.

I said you said that already!

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So theres nothing conclusive that writers nowhere days are creating more (If I dont highlight this you'll probably repeat the same thing and tell me I dont get the point) extremely weird looking and acting aliens.


*sigh* I knew you'd say that.


Originally posted by Raoul

look at the sinestro corps. there are human looking members, but several artists had to come up with new, scary alien races, which they did.

I already said you might be right about Dc I was just adding my 2 cents about the Red lanterns.

Originally posted by Raoul

they only tend to anthropomorphise aliens when the main characters need someone to interact with on any deep level. soranik natu needed to have a nice rack to make kyle rayner attracted to her, and the hulk was never going to marry a chick that looked like the brood queen (yet another marvel race that is as unhuman as it gets. not to mention the phalanx).

You havnet proven anything in terms of marvel. You keep repeating the same shit over and over again its Incredible.



Originally posted by Raoul

you seem to be operating under the assumption that "white" is an equivalent of caucasion.

It depends. I dont think Skrulls or Rigelllians are 'white', but yeah I consider blue skin kree to be 'white'.

Originally posted by Raoul

caucasion kryptonians? ok, granted, so lets give them black kyrptonians. they're obviously based on humanity to a large extent, even when it comes down to skin tone (something tells me the population of earth wouldnt have taken superman to their hearts if he had three arms and lilac skin), it fits.

There you go.


Originally posted by Raoul


when it comes to other races? there seems to be a kind of reverse racism going on in your post. there seems to be the assumption that being a blue kree, a white (as in, white, not caucasion) member of saint walker's race, a grey member of Caiera's race, etc etc, is some galactic equivalent of being caucasian. it isn't. at all. some alien races have one colour, some have two, but the entire point of making alien characters is to make new, exciting characters that are not human. that means being different.

LOL the whole point was that Caira people were human looking I didnt say anything about caucasian. Hell even if you thought that was implied you missed the point entirely. For evey crazy looking alien there are as many normal looking ones.

Like I said I dont think Skrulls, Rigallieans etc are white. This is just some stuff you're trying to focus on. Obvoulsy blue skin kree are based on caucasians they dont have narrow eyes or curly hair....c'mon now.

Originally posted by Raoul

if they make CAUCASIAN aliens, then sure, you could go and make black, asian, latino and puerto rican members of said race. if they aren't caucasian, then no, i don't see a reason to bring in different coloured aliens.



Which is one of my whole bloody points in the first place.

oh for crying out loud. try and deflect some more, will you?

don't tell lies about me. seriously, don't bloody do it. you don't know a damn thing about me, and don't you dare think that you are in any position to condescend to me.

Originally posted by Raoul
don't tell lies about me. seriously, don't bloody do it. you don't know a damn thing about me, and don't you dare think that you are in any position to condescend to me.

No I'll carry on doing the same thing I felt my post was appropriate.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No I'll carry on doing the same thing I felt my post was appropriate.

i'm not the one with the issues. you think you're somehow qualified to make judgements about people you barely know.

you told actual lies about me in that post, and i'm not going to let it stand. you don't get away with that.

personal attacks i.e. bashing aren't allowed on the forum.

oh, an edit, wonderful.

Originally posted by Raoul
i'm not the one with the issues. you think you're somehow qualified to make judgements about people you barely know you told actual lies about me in that post, and i'm not going to let it stand. you don't get away with that.

I dont think I did, I was thinking of closing the thread. If you want you can respond to it. As far as im concerned you stink.

You dont get it. I usually wouldnt give people like you the time of day. I dont need to lie about somebody like you im just pissed off that I have to take crap from somebody who think hes knows its all. As far as im concerened you're ****ing with me so im ****ing with you.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I dont think I did, I was thinking of closing the thread. If you want you can respond to it. As far as im concerned you stink.

You dont get it. I usually wouldnt give people like you the time of day. I dont need to lie about somebody like you im just pissed off that I have to take crap from somebody who think hes knows its all. As far as im concerened you're ****ing with me so im ****ing with you.

you're out of line.

you don't know me, yet you think you can talk about me and "people like me."

you are lying about me. you're making statements that are factually incorrect. thats lying.

Originally posted by Raoul
you're out of line.

you don't know me, yet you think you can talk about me and "people like me."

I could be wrong but at the end of the day I aplogised and you insulted me aftewards. Im sick of your shit.

Originally posted by Raoul

you are lying about me. you're making statements that are factually incorrect. thats lying.

I dont think I am

Originally posted by Raoul


personal attacks i.e. bashing aren't allowed on the forum.



Didnt you make personal attacks about me? I see wanna have your cake and eat it. Typical.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I could be wrong but at the end of the day I aplogised and you insulted me aftewards. Im sick of your shit.

you are wrong.



you are.



amazing, how you started, yet claim i did. nice.



i'm allowed to defend myself, which i did. thats all.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

It depends. I dont think Skrulls or Rigelllians are 'white', but yeah I consider blue skin kree to be 'white'.

wow so blue isn't not white to you now

Originally posted by Raoul
you are wrong.


See what i mean lies. Posting that thread wasnt insulting...you kill me.


Originally posted by Raoul

you are.


You just dont get it. I wouldnt do something like that unpurpose. If I did that I would be acting like you and I hate your guts.


Originally posted by Raoul

amazing, how you started, yet claim i did. nice.



i'm allowed to defend myself, which i did. thats all.

Ermm again like I said I apologised and then you insulted me, pay attention. To be quite honst you insulted me first but that could be considered to be a matter of opinion, obvoulsy you think it was justified eventhiugh you were coming out with crap.

Originally posted by jalek moye
wow so blue isn't not white to you now

um blue krees are obvoulsy based on caucasians. Skrulls arent.

so i'm guessing you want some green kree with purple short coil like curly hair, wider noses and thicker lips?

Originally posted by jalek moye
so i'm guessing you want some green kree with purple short coil like curly hair, wider noses and thicker lips?


.....serioulsy man whats the problem here? All I said was that blue krees are based on caucasians, you telling me there not?

We both said we want to see more ethnic aliens lets leave it at that. I dont have a hard-on for the Kree race.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
.....serioulsy man whats the problem here? All I said was that blue krees are based on caucasians, you telling me there not?

We both said we want to see more ethnic aliens lets leave it at that. I dont have a hard-on for the Kree race.
more thnic human like aliens. i'd actually prefer the aliens look nothing like humans. or atleast be different like the skrulls are. i'm just saying what do you honestly want another kree ethnicty for

Originally posted by jalek moye
i'm just saying what do you honestly want another kree ethnicty for

Nahhhh. Leave them as they are, sorry im in a bit of a bad mood.

Closed for immaturity. Any further concerns will be dealt with by me via PM with those I deem necessary.