Episode 16: The Hidden Enemy

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



queeq
This is a weird episode... It is doing what I feared so long: interfering with the set realities of SW. So here we have a Clone traitor... how the heck is that possible? A clone desiring freedom...? That so goes against the very concept of these clones. Why would they do something like that?

Also, a very lame bit: how did the Jedi suddenly escape a huge Sep army? As if Ventress would let them go when they're ready to get killed.

A rather entertaining episode, but very conflicting with canon. And again: this series seems to be almost only about Anakin and OB1...

Hybris
Maybe some error in the whole obedience code in his genes? I think the writers just thought it would be a cool plot line, because all the clones look alike and it would be nearly impossible to find out who it was...

The only thing I really found it annoying was that in the entire series you suddenly have an episode that acts like a prequel to the clone wars movie...

As I've said before (I believe), it's lame that Ventress supposedly stands her ground for such a long time against both Skywalker and Kenobi, while it has been shown that Kenobi doesn't even have to fight seriously in order to beat her...

queeq
The more episodes we get, the screwier SW gets... damn.

Captain REX
I'm pretty sure the entire reason they made this episode was for the 'Oh no, a clone did this, how will we tell which one?!' section. Which was a neat idea and they pulled it off well... but it still makes it seem like it could happen with any clone, which the general idea is that it shouldn't. Ever.

queeq
Couldn't, in fact.

Nactous
Always in motion, the SW rules are.

queeq
Unfortunately.

Jaeh.is.Awesome
maybe there is just something wrong with the obedience code... maybe its defective...

does this mean too that there might be some clones who spared their jedi gen. in order 66?



i have to watch this. dang.... Clone wars in the philippines is so late... i went out to buy a pirated compilation (he,he,he) and its only up to ep. 15.

dang.

queeq
*cough*torrent*cough*

Jaeh.is.Awesome
Originally posted by queeq
*cough*torrent*cough*

but it'll take up too much of my laptop's memoy - its slow enough as it is...

Ordo
Episode 16: Hidden Enemy
Reaction:Neugative
Season 1 Record: 6-(9)

Summary: You'd think a clone episode would grab me for sure, but this one didn't.

Pros: Clones. Clones clones clones. This is also one of the first episodes where standard infantry troopers kill more droids than droids kill infantry. We still have a long way to go before Filoni realized that one droid does not equal one clone. (This gets to a fundamental flaw in the perspective of the series)

Camp. It was nice to see an active base.

The enemy....It was nice to see that Clones have brains and CAN make decisions against orders and that they have more concerns than "how cna I please the Jedi." The collecting droid fingers is a nice touch too, but its much harder to make a necklace out of them if you have 1,456 kills.

Cinematog. All in all this episode had some nice shots and sequences.

Clonesex. Did anyone else get turned on when Cody and Slick were wrestling?

Cons: A prequel? WTF. Overall the plot was totally irrelevant and didn't take us anywhere, except showing us why the Jedi were so dramatically under-armed in the movie. Still, it was pointless. Even the GENDY series was linear (or in parallel to a linear plotline).

Rationale. Still, the rationale for clones disobeying was weak. Slick almost seemed bitchy. Even weaker? Anakin's defense of the Jedi's treatment of clones (especially because he has shown sympathy about a total of 0 times in this series). This series refuses to admit that Jedi are fallible. If you are going to pretend they aren't, at least back it up.

All in all, the battle with Ventress was weak too. All it made me wonder is why she STILL wasn't on Christophsis in the movie.

Why did it take a Clone Marshall Commander and an Alpha ARC to bring down a squad leader? Clones are made differently ya know.

Nemesis X
A clone going against the Republic is rare but do they really have obediance genes in them? If they do then maybe the seperatists captured him and used surgical droids to remove the genes. Once the genes were removed, the clone wanted to free all his brothers. Makes sense.

queeq
If they don't have 'obedience genes', what purpose do they serve? You might as well recruit regular army, that's cheaper and quicker.

Ordo
Originally posted by Nemesis X
A clone going against the Republic is rare but do they really have obediance genes in them? If they do then maybe the seperatists captured him and used surgical droids to remove the genes. Once the genes were removed, the clone wanted to free all his brothers. Makes sense.

Makes sense only if you don't understand genetics.

Obedience "genes" dont exist. They are modified to be "less independent," this is different from obedient. Clones are conditioned to be loyal, but conditioning can be broken. If they were entirely obedient, they couldn't serve as a command structure. An officer would be no different from infantry in his ability to make decisions and lead.

Slick was a sergeant. He has some officer training, including the ability to make independent decisions. This ability could, as it did in his case, over-ride his conditioning.

Originally posted by queeq
If they don't have 'obedience genes', what purpose do they serve? You might as well recruit regular army, that's cheaper and quicker.

They're MORE obedient, conditioned in a way you could not condition beings born free and aware of a wider universe.

And you are correct, hence stormtroopers. But its very hard to keep an army secret for 9 years if you're actively recruiting and training them...

And as we saw...that regular army wasn't as good. Special forces exist for a reason...its not just the number of boots you have on the field. A smaller, quality force can be a great advantage.

queeq
Not "more", they follow EVERY command. That's obedient, period.

And it's not so much a secret army. After you've conquered the universe, a regular army will do.

WO Polaski
... hence stormtroopers.

Ordo
Originally posted by queeq
Not "more", they follow EVERY command. That's obedient, period.

Well, given the series canon (which is what we are discussing) that is not the case.

SW canon also states that clones are "creative." That quality in themselves is innately against the idea of total obedience. Basically this argument is never going to be solved because Lucas never took the time to sit down and think about what he was writing. He probably just viewed it as irrelevant.

Originally posted by queeq
And it's not so much a secret army. After you've conquered the universe, a regular army will do.

See above (and my last post)

queeq
Creativity can be within limits. If you're to take a city, you go and do everything to TAKE the city. Being creative or if need be you'd die. A clone does not go: oooh, too hard, let's not!!! It kinda goes against the very principle.

And yes, the series does contradict that which I find odd.

Ordo
Well, each trait has its limits. Laziness or apathy are not really emotions demonstrated. But a qualities like dedication, perserverence, and unending loyalty can be bent to alternate ends, as in the case of Slick.

Basically (as always) Lucas says [email protected] and presents a one sentence, poorly written dialogue sound byte. That ideology then fails to capture an issue adequately. We're left holding half an apple and half an orange and trying to fit them together.

Thus, I dont find the series contradicting an issue. It should contradict the films to some degree because it should be better...addressing more. Thats going to require stepping on Lucas' toes a bit. Personally, the series presents a differnt (likely better) image of clones than the films do. Tha trequires some reinterpretation of AOTC.

queeq
Yeah, maybe.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.