Ryu Hayabusa vs Link

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fascistcrusader
Who takes it and why?

FistOfThe North
L.L.*




*Link Loses.

Zack Fair
A little more detail would make this easier to gauge. Do they get standard equipment, magic, etc.

fascistcrusader
Ryu has the true dragon sword and Ninpo, Link gets the Master Sword and equipment like the boomerang, bow, and bombs.

Zack Fair
Then I'd say Hayabusa wins without difficulty.

Equally powerful sword. Faster. More durable/Stronger(though this depends on the version of Link we're using) But the ace in the hole is his TeleportationxNinpo.

ScreamPaste
Is that all the equipment you're giving Link? lol.

fascistcrusader
Bottles, slingshots, fairy dust, lanterns, etc aren't going to help Link here, so there's no reason to give them to him. Fully equipped Link would just get weighed down by all that junk.

In any case Ryu stomps him. He's far faster, far more agile, more skilled with a blade, and has durability leagues higher than Link.

Zack Fair
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Is that all the equipment you're giving Link? lol.

Agreed.

Tanks, Choppers, Heavy Turrets etc >>> Arrows and Bombs.

ScreamPaste
I'm reading this thread as "I'm upset that Dante lost so I'm taking away all of Link's items except his bow boomerang and sword and makign him fight someone better than Dante."

Alright, fair enough, I will debate this merrily once I check the other thread you made, lol. You're really upset Link beat Dante, it looks like.

fascistcrusader
No, champ, I just wanted to see how silly you'd let your fanboyish tendencies let you get. smile And Ryu < Dante, but not to the degree Link is.

Cyner
Hmm, i'm gonna have to think about this one, I've extensively played both Ninja Gaiden and LoZ series. BRB with a reply.

ScreamPaste
Ryu won the Ryu vs Dante thread...

fascistcrusader
No he didn't, the only person really arguing for Ryu was thunder. Do you ever pay attention?

ScreamPaste
And Thunder is a better debator alone than everyone allied against him, numbers don't win threads, debates do.

fascistcrusader
Yes, and even Thunder admitted that Ryu was outmatched and Dante probably won. All he said was that he didn't think it was as one sided as most others did. Once again, pay attention.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
And Thunder is a better debator alone than everyone allied against him, numbers don't win threads, debates do.

Oh the irony...

ScreamPaste
/Double check. Alright it appears you're correct, he sided with Dante, I'm gonna go argue with him.

fascistcrusader
Wow, you actually responded to facts and reason. That gives me new hope that one day you can be a sensible person.

ThunderGodEneru
A. Yay me.

B. Yeah, Dante beats Ryu Hayabusa, but I only argued against the notion that in swordplay Dante was ultimately superior.

C. Artificial Glory, what are you implying? mmm

ScreamPaste
I find it supremely ironic that Fascist crusader is accusing me of being a fanboy when my arguments against dante beatign Link produced two more threads, one in which Link gets almost zero gizmoes except the ones he rarely uses, and I've never seen the boomerang used in debate.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
C. Artificial Glory, what are you implying? mmm

Why use sockpuppets if he thinks that numbers don't win debates? :P

ScreamPaste
I don't. Ask a mod to check our IP's. I'll do it myself. Wanna meet Cyner in chat? I'll pm you the link. I have no idea who CC is though.

ThunderGodEneru
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Why use sockpuppets if he thinks that numbers don't win debates? :P mmm

ScreamPaste
I sent a PM to General Kaliero.

CosmicComet
So I suppose a 'sock' means something to the effect of an alternate account used in an attempt to aid in a debate? Lol.

A couple of you Dante apologists are just upset that you couldn't mount a single valid argument in that link/dante thread. All you kept spouting was incorrectly stating that a bullet would kill Link. Lmao. I'm not ScreamPaste, hell my first post on this forum was chastizing him for his debating style. lol

Cyner
Ok i thought about it and I'm ready to put forth my observations.

As far as sword skill I would put them on par with their respective sword styles. However European sword fighting is superior to Japanese sword fighting. Also a sword and shield will always beat just a sword if the users have similar combat skill.

The Dragon Sword and The Master Sword play a similar evil destroying role in their respective universes, however while the Dragon sword is just a destroyer of evil. The Master sword repels, destroys, and dispels evil.

Ryu can survive 2-3 tank shell near hits in his game but it does do about 1/3 of total health bar damage. Link on the other hand can survive massive explosions, dips in lava hits from castle destroying punches, with merely 1/20th of his life bar taken.

Ryu certainly has good tools at his disposal but since you mentioned Ninpo I'll start there. The Ninpo techniques are very powerful fire/lightning/wind/etc spells. Which when powered up usually result in an area of effect damage capability. With Din's Fire Link has a similar attack. If attacked by a Ninpo himself Ryu usually only has one course of action, and that's to dodge the attack. Link however can dodge magic, reflect magic with the Master Sword, or reflect magic with the Mirror Shield.

Ryu and Link both have a very nice assortment of other tools. Ryu can use shurikens, explosive shurikens, bow and arrow, etc. Link has the boomerang, bomb, bow and arrow, etc. The thing is Link has many many more tools at his disposal and while Ryu must work hard to always evade attacks from such things(omg stupid ninjas in NG2), Link has the option to evade or to block.

On strength, while Ryu has most certainly demonstrated above human feats of strength. He is NOWHERE near the amount of strength that Link has at his disposal. One punch from Link would most likely shatter Ryu's bones easily.

Link wins.

Gumachi
Originally posted by CosmicComet
All you kept spouting was incorrectly stating that a bullet would kill Link.

So a human can take a bullet to the head? That killed Argosax in 1 blast.

ThunderGodEneru
My God, there is so much wrong with your post I have no idea where to begin.

CosmicComet
Originally posted by Gumachi
So a human can take a bullet to the head? That killed Argosax in 1 blast.

*facepalm*

Link has tanked much worse than bullets...for the last god damn time...

Gumachi
Not the point.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by Gumachi
Not the point.

It really is. Link's durability is such that he can survive that. That is the point.

Cyner
no one for Ryu? No debate? come on i thought this would be a good one for debate.

WaffleZ
Stalemate.

Link has Nayru's Love, which grants him invulnerability to any and all threatening attacks.

Link has magic armor, which grants him invulnerability to any and all threatening attacks.

Link weilds the master sword, which grants him invulnerability to any strange magical effects.

But Ryu is too fast for Link to hit. So they're pretty much at a stalemate.

Well, maybe Link would win. Great Spin Attack DOES cover a lot of ground...

Yeah, I'd say Link wins. Spin attack and Din's Fire hits just about all around him, plus Ryu isn't the only one in the battle who's an expert at swordplay.

Zack Fair
Originally posted by Cyner
no one for Ryu? No debate? come on i thought this would be a good one for debate.

I won't start any serious discussion until a specific Link is used. People tend to make an amalgam of all different Link versions and it is quite annoying.

fascistcrusader
Lets say its LttP Link.

Zack Fair
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Lets say its LttP Link.

Interesting.

I will have to remember every single thing Link could do in that, but it won't take time since that is my favorite Zelda.

Ah shit I just remembered one single item that makes it spite in Link's favor.

Teh Capezorz 131

ScreamPaste
All hail the cape.

WaffleZ
Ew, LttP Link?
This isn't worth debating anymore.

*Leaves*


Link still wins, but I'll leave it to Cyner, ScreamPaste or someone else to explain why.

Cyner
LttP Link also has Ether, Bombos, Earthquake. If you played the games you will know these are screen annihilating spells. Cape makes him invisible and unhittable. The Master Sword retains it's magic repelling power. He has the Mirror shield. The Titan Mitts can provide the strength. Cane of Byrna creates protective barriers for Link. Ice Rod can freeze Ryu.

Thanks for making it easy by specifying.

Zack Fair
Originally posted by Cyner
LttP Link also has Ether, Bombos, Earthquake. If you played the games you will know these are screen annihilating spells. Cape makes him invisible and unhittable. The Master Sword retains it's magic repelling power. He has the Mirror shield. The Titan Mitts can provide the strength. Cane of Byrna creates protective barriers for Link. Ice Rod can freeze Ryu.

Not to mention the Master Sword can shoot magical energy blasts when you swing it.

Elemental Magic vs Elemantal Ninpo pretty much cancel each other out.

However the mirror shield nulls Hayabusa's Ninpo.

Hayabusa still has the speed/teleportation advantage.

I wonder if LttP Link could BFR someone with that flute, but then again he will probably get his head chopped off if he tried.

Hell even if we go by HighEndFeat wars Link wins. Having the Tri-Force grant you any wish >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Video Games Versus Forum.

ScreamPaste
Cape.

I am who I am
Hayabusa, he throws a ninja star at Link's head.

ScreamPaste
And achieves nothing because Link's durability is extremely high.

I am who I am
Show me that he can take a ninja star to the head. Don't talk about it wit no proof. Show me.

ScreamPaste
I've provided endless proof in the other threads, but I'll repeat it to be nice.

Link has withstood blows that can disintegrate stone, not just smash it, disintegrate it. A shuriken is nothing.

Zack Fair
When did he canonically survive these blows in LttP?

ScreamPaste
Ah, right, wrong Link, those were OoT. My bad, leme rethink this for a second, I'm used to debating OoT Link.

WaffleZ
Link has a cape from LttP that makes in invisible and unhittable.

Ryu can't find Link's head to throw a shuriken at, plus the shurkien makes contact with nothing but a wall.

Durability is irrelevant. Ryu won't hit Link.

fascistcrusader
But Ryu is a helluva lot faster than Link and more durable than most of his attacks, so its just a matter of waiting until Link runs out of magic. The cape drains it faster than anything in the game.

The three medallion attacks don;t work against high powered enemies like Aganhim or Ganon, besides which Ryu has shown time and time again to be able to avod and survive large AoE attacks.

Voyeur
edit; so yeah I mean when exactly does Ryu show this awsome durability? because in the games he seems easily hurt by falling plats in levels where as Link can through entire dungeon floors and mountains with out a scratch.

Link has mad reflex skills to by the way, and speed isn't always compensating for agility, they're two different things. Besides, pegasus boots? mhmm...thought so.

Cyner
haha, since when is Ryu a lot faster than Link? Yes he is fast, but so is Link. The only time Ryu moves TRULY quickly is when you charge his attack to the third lvl. then he zooms to the enemy and does quick slashes. Other than that he's not faster than Link.

fascistcrusader
Link gets hurt from jumping out of trees and falls don;t hurt Ryu....

Link doesn't have the refexes to block bullets, Ryu does. Ryu is also faster, can teleport, etc. This is just a game of Ryu relying on his other senses until Link's magic runs out, then he speedblitzes like none other. Heck, he'd most likely decapitate Link before the cape could be activated.

ScreamPaste
Eh, TGE mentioned Ryu dodging bullets at 1000+ metres per second? I haven't personalyl seen it/played that game so I dunno. If that's true Ryu is faster, but not unstoppable.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Link gets hurt from jumping out of trees and falls don;t hurt Ryu....

Link doesn't have the refexes to block bullets, Ryu does. Ryu is also faster, can teleport, etc. This is just a game of Ryu relying on his other senses until Link's magic runs out, then he speedblitzes like none other. Heck, he'd most likely decapitate Link before the cape could be activated.

Link could block bullets with his shield relatively easily.

Cyner
if we are talking about LttP Link, and we are, then no. he can drop hundreds of feet without a single scratch. When does Ryu teleport? I have played the Ninja Gaiden series extensively and I have yet to notice this teleport ability. Ryu most certainly has good reflexes, but he is not faster than Link. For LttP Link, i'd put them at very close speeds.

The way you write makes it seem as though a single sword blow would have the strength to cut Link at all. Ryu doesn't have the power behind his attacks for that sort of thing. His strength is certainly above human, but nowhere close to the enemies Link fights regularly.

fascistcrusader
Link loses a heart anytime he falls down a shaft in LttP, falls still hurt him, they don;t damage Ryu.

He teleports during certain attacks where he goes blue, disappears and reappears somewhere else to slash again.

And this is ridiculous, Link has no more speed than a normal human. Give me one single feat to suggest that Link has even half the speed of Ryu or you cannot make this silly claim.

ScreamPaste
Well in aLttP specificly he can out run arrows with the pegasus boots, reflect energy with his sword, ect. Link's uber.

and he only takes 1 heart of damage falling into bottomlesspits, if there's a floor below he takes none.

fascistcrusader
He still takes damages from fals. And that's not a speed feat, thats an old games graphics. The normal enemies can step out of the way of arrows but they aren't as fast as Ryu. I'm talking something in canon, from any Zelda game, that shows him pulling off speed anywhere close to what Ryu does throughout his entire game. Until we have a cutscene or something showing him using superspeed like Ryu does, he is nowhere near as fast.

Zack Fair
Respect Ryu Hayabusa

ScreamPaste
Zelda doesn't use cut senes for combat, it makes you fight it yourself, this is a game not a movie.

the graphics were good enogh to show Link move faster than the arrows. an arrow moving ---------> and Link moving -------> Link gets to the target destination first. If you can use bottomless pits doign 1 eart of damage as canon, I can use him out running arrows, keke. Falls that let him land on ground did no damage at all.

fascistcrusader
No, champ. The normal enemies can out step arrows too in LttP. This is just poor graphics.

There are a few Zelda games with better graphics and even cutscenes, and in none of these cutscenes does Link begin to suggest he has superspeed. Until you can prove otherwise, he is no faster than an ordinary human.

ScreamPaste
Except the ordinary enemies cannot out run an arrow, only side step out of the way. so you're wrong.

The pegasus boots are specificly an item to boost speed and the graphics are good enogh to show this.

Zelda games never have Link fight in cut scenes. You, the player, do the combat.

Edit: further more, in the 16 bit era aLttP's graphics were amazing.

More edit: You still owe me and the others an apology. D:<

Cyner
The pegasus boots grant "incredible speed". If the graphics and gameplay were improved to todays standards, and the pegasus boots existed while maintaining their properties, Link would out run arrows. In order to use this speed like he does, it would also require him to have super reflexes.


The cutscenes in LoZ only ever show story elements and never involve combat.

EDIT: Screampaste stop being faster than me

fascistcrusader
Link can't even change directions using the pegasus boots, they're pretty much useless in combat. Even if they did let him outrun arrows canonically, barely moves faster than them, and certainly isn't moving bullet fast. They don't even allow him any speed other than running speed, so they don't help him defend against Ryu's onslaught one bit.

Once again, no scenes in Zelda involve Link using superspeed, ergo he doesn't have it. Link was never intended to be anything more than a mortal with some nat weapons.

And I'm not apologizing to a silly sock puppeteer. Sorry. sad

ScreamPaste
I have proof he has it, you have none he doesn't, ergo, he does. Given the thigns Link achieves it's a bit absurd to say he was only ever intended to be a human with neat weapons?

And I'm no sock puppeteer. Apologise plx. Or I'm telling D:<!

Cyner
the charging in one direction is merely a gameplay mechanic, the boots automatically grant the speed. If you want to see what the manual says about the boots.

http://zs.ffshrine.org/album/link-to-the-past/inst-us/z3manual-23-24.jpg

Also he wouldn't need to move faster than bullets to fight Ryu, because Ryu himself is not that uber fast.


No cut scenes involve Ryu teleporting or blocking bullets, ergo he can't do it!

see that? it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Voyeur
lets also point out that Link is Hylian. Not human by our standards, who's to say what they aren't capable of beyond status, in otherwise terms of racial attributes they posess.

tl;dr: Link isn't Human, like we or Ryu is human.

fascistcrusader
Ryu is that uberfast, we see him blocking bullets throughout the game, sorry sport. sad

And if you'd read it you'd see that the manual agrees with me. They let him run fast, that's it. He can't swing a sword or shield any faster with them.

Link has no superspeed, this is a canon fact. Watch link in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pGDBVYHEF8

That's pretty slow.

Now Ryu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0JeWFUFsEU

Notice how he's pulling off 5+ hits in the time it takes Link to swing a sword?

Link is horribly outmatched in speed. If you can't even see the truth in that you're beyond hope, and there's no point in continuing here. sad

ScreamPaste
firstly, that's the wrong Link, that's TP Link without pegasus boots. Secondly, that fight is against an enemy that requires specificly timed hits, and yeah, he's not attackins as often as he can. Thirdly, Ryu really isn't that much faster in your vid and whiel more acrobatic is not beyond what Link can handle. furthermore, Link easily dodged that thrown sword which was as fast as most of the attacks agaisnt Ryu in that video with a casual side step, and that's one of the slowest Links, who is also already proven to have super human reaction time.

You just helped me.

Voyeur

Cyner
No, that's about the same speed as Ryu swings his sword. The only thing that was faster was his swing speed in the air, which was also guided by the fact that he was doing a somersault while holding out the weapon. Also like i mentioned before, Ryu can only be faster when he does the charge, otherwise it'd be an even speed contest. Anyway we were discussing LttP Link not TP.


Edit: Ok you guys discuss, cause i gtg
Edit2: but fascist... I just saw a vid of Link doing a dodge just as fast as Ryu's dodge... that makes it true right?

fascistcrusader
Once again, you can't say Link is as fast as Ryu when all the evidence points to the contrary. The sword that guy throw took miore time to reach Link than Doku's takes to get to Ryu and back. Link has never, ever shown agility or speed like Ryu has. End of story.

Acknowledge this or you and your puppets can join my ignore list. sad

ScreamPaste
Sigh, I have no puppets. Peach proved it in the Link vs Dante thread. I'm reporting you unless I get an apology.

Voyeur
acknowledge simple physics first and relativity.

Idk about puppetry and I actually argue with Link fans a lot, kek.

You need to study definition of words before you start sticking them in (X) and (Y) situations.

fascistcrusader
Simple physics says that something that attacks five times in the amount of time it takes another to attack once is 5 times faster.

And since you've done nothing but ignore the facts, scream, you and your alter egos have to go on ignore now. Maybe someday you'll learn to properly debate. sad

CosmicComet
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Maybe someday you'll learn to properly debate. sad

Ohhh the irony.

ScreamPaste
Lol, my alter egos. If I had that many people in my head I'd be typing from a padded cell.

Gumachi
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
It really is. Link's durability is such that he can survive that. That is the point.

Why do you keep talking as if these are NORMAL BULLETS?

ScreamPaste
Link has been struck with things MUCH stronger than that and barely taken damage Gumachi, move on, please.. Or atleast post in the right thread?

Gumachi
So?

CosmicComet
Originally posted by Gumachi
Why do you keep talking as if these are NORMAL BULLETS?

And those 'demon energy infused' bullets have no destructive feats on par with Ganon using his weapon in beast form. Actually, they really have no feats at all.

The demon energy you speak of is supposed to be the deal breaker according to you, but Link is protected against such qualities anyway. The bullets will basically have typical physical properties against Link and that isn't good enough to hurt him.

Gumachi
And?

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by Gumachi
And?

And that means they = squat.

I am who I am
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I've provided endless proof in the other threads, but I'll repeat it to be nice.

Link has withstood blows that can disintegrate stone, not just smash it, disintegrate it. A shuriken is nothing. When the hell was this? Show me or at least tell me what game it's in so I can check myself.

ScreamPaste
it was OoT, wrong game, lol. We're debatign aLttP, my bad.

but yeah, in the boss fight vs Ganon.

Voyeur
Earlier a certain some one wanted an example of Link's speed, even with out Pegasus boots.
(yes I know we're technically discussing ALtTP Link)
But you all seem to combing the titles in which your character comes from so here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejU1sntyJQo

Voyeur
double post* one needed for all "Link" versus' lets fight? <3

LINK's abilities:
Link is the hero of time with many abilities.

Link is an exceptional swordsman. His skill with various weapons and items allows him to easily adapt and master each new tool he acquires and employ them in battles. Link shows himself to be an excellent marksman. Including but not restricted to with a Bow and Arrow, Boomerang, Slingshot, HookShot, ClawShot etc. etc.

Link is also very agile, proven as he is able to perform back-flips and somersaults with ease to dodge his enemies' attacks at the very start of his adventures.

Additionally, Link has proven to be very strong physically, as he is usually able to move heavy objects and overpower larger enemies rather easily. Along the fact his power to ride a giant Boar, and his horseback riding skills are impeccable.

In the "Oracle of Seasons", Link is shown to have at least some skills in hand-to-hand combat with the boxing mini-game and in Twilight Princess, he is taught the art of sumo wrestling by the mayor of Ordon Village; proving Link isn't completely defenseless without a weapon.

Link even uses magic in the form of spells. On several occasions he has even been able to shape shift into another form including a fairy, bunny, wolf, Deku, Goron, Zora, a Giant, and a Deity.

Finally, he is endowed with the powers of the Triforce of Courage.

The Legend of Zelda
-Sword Beams: able to fire energy blasts from Sword
-Spin Attack: Charged or otherwise, with or with out magical energy released from it, this attack is a circular based one with critical consequence.
(side note: these attacks are also translated and relate to the other titles in which they appear. Same goes for Sword Plant, Rocket Stab, Lunge and so on)

Legend of Zelda 2: The Adventure of Link
-Shield: (buff) reduces all damage taken by half
-Jump: (buff) Link's jumping abilities are greatly increased
-Life: (buff) Regenerates Health
-Fairy: (buff) Transforms Link into a Fairy
-Fire: (ranged) A ranged fire attack from the Sword
-Reflect: (buff) Nullifies and reflects all attacks
-Spell: (aoe) Transforms all Enemies into a Bot
-Thunder: (aoe) destroys all Enemies.

The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Bombos: (aoe) creates a giant explosion
Ether: (aoe) immobilize all enemies
Quake: (aoe) creates an earthquake

The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
Excluded since it's a dream, other wise this Link would be unbeatable.

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Din's Fire: (aoe) Creates a dome of intense Fire to disintegrate
Farore's Wind: (buff) Create a Warp Point to teleport at any time
Nayru's Love (buff) Create a protective barrier to reduce damage

The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
Deku Link: can hover and shoot poison bubbles
Goron Link: lolwut strong & can spin around at extreme velocity
Zora Link: Energy Shield, ranged fins, & unlimited breath under water
Giant Link: need I say more?
Fierce Deity Link: Deity means a god, so yeah =3

The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
The Hidden Skills: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLg5beoBbAU
-Ending Blow
-Shield Attack
-Back Slice
-Helm Splitter
-Mortal Draw
-Jump Strike
-Great Spin

Super Smahs Bros. Series
Final Smash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65pkTJHljSI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Gn1d_qn0vw

The move hits multiple enemies.

SSE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_m5AsTPaPw

(side note: being able to side step and dodge Fox's laser is proof he could dodge a bullet. Lets also state that by official translation of Nintendo that Farore's wind can be used as a quick teleportation)

SoulCalibur 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaDSWnA-27Q

Illusion Stab Combo, also in Super Smash Bros. Melee.

for the sake of length I have not gone to deeply into each specific Link by assuming all the basics are kept through out each one.

tl;dr: "Link" combined by all titles is extremely over powered.

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