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http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/thumb/3/35/Dissidia-Ultimecia.jpg/200px-Dissidia-Ultimecia.jpg

VS

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/thumb/c/c2/Dissidia_Kuja.JPG/200px-Dissidia_Kuja.JPG


This is base form, non TC Ultimecia against normal Kuja. Both have some pretty incredible feats. Ultimecia rules the world pretty much unopposed as she has destroyed nearly every nation on the planet and has the power of every sorceress who ever existed. Kuja controlled Bahamut, tanked one of the aforementioned beasts attacks, and has access to powerful magic.

Who takes it?

Ultimecia doesn't have the power of every sorceress ever.
Scan of her regular form:
"A sorceress trying to change the world by compressing time and taking power from all sorceresses.

Try again.

Kuja wins by the way.

As she is the last sorceress of her time she has all of the sorceress power there ever was. She was taking power from all the other sorceresses because she had the entire sorceress half of the great hyne and manipulated the other sorceresses to change time and cause time compression. It doesn't say she was trying to take their power, it says she already had it and was trying to change time.

And how does Kuja win? This is a close match, please provide details on your opinion.

I don't see how your interpretation makes no sense.

First part:
A sorceress trying to change the world by compressing time


^ establishes she's trying to do something ie. it's not done yet and she has to accomplish it.

AND

^ establishes a link. There is another thing she hasn't done yet and is trying to do.

aking power from all sorceresses.

^ there you go. If your interpretation was right and she had it already it would not say very clearly that she was trying to take power from all soreresses.

And how does Kuja win Well for one Ultimecia has almost no feats in her regular form. The best you can guess at is she can do whatever Edea did and more but that's about it. And blocking bullets and chucking ice isn't comparable to smiling off Bahamut's attacks.

Go play FF VIII again. As the last sorceress she has all of the great hyne, all of the sorceress powers, this is fact. The fact that she is taking power from all other sorceresses means she has all their power.

And as for no feats, she wiped out nearly all her opposition in the future by here self. Wiping countries off the map is pretty impressive if you ask me.

Kuja can win this, but it won't be easy for him.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Go play FF VIII again. As the last sorceress she has all of the great hyne, all of the sorceress powers, this is fact. The fact that she is taking power from all other sorceresses means she has all their power.

And as for no feats, she wiped out nearly all her opposition in the future by here self. Wiping countries off the map is pretty impressive if you ask me.

Kuja can win this, but it won't be easy for him. 1. Fraid not. She has half of the Great Hyne, the weaker half which is compared to dead skin. Hyne himself contains the bulk of his power(which makes you really wonder how strong he is).

Never destroyed a country as far as we know.

I meant to say all of the sorceress part of the great hyne....

And yes she has. Anything opposing her in the future was crushed. There are no nations left to stand in her way because she wiped them out. Se even says when speaking through Edea that she was "the cold blooded tyrant who slaughtered countless men and destroyed many nations."

But has she actually busted a country?

Which makes no sense because she gave her powers to Edea. Are you saying Edea thus had all the power of every sorceress? She can't have as there were other sorceresses alive.



She's not speaking literally. She's simply insulting the crowed for their prejudice view of the sorceresses in general.
Or were the people of Galbadia condemming Ultimecia for generations...?


"Hailing the very one you have condemned for generations. Have you no shame? What happened to the evil, ruthless sorceress from your fantasies? The cold-blooded tyrant that slaughtered countless men and destroyed many nations? Where is she now? She stands before your very eyes to become your new ruler. HAHAHAHAHA."

All she's saying is she is one of those monsters they have such a narrow-minded view of. Nothing more.

In the future nothing opposes her. She is hated by humanity and is persecuted by them, in retaliation she destroyed their nations and slaughtered their troops. Every word she breathed was true.

Edea existed simultaneously with Adel, Ultimecia couldn't give her all of the sorceress power because that would have lead to a paradox. Pyron, the simple fact that she is the only one left means she has all of it, this is a fact. I know from previous thread s you don't know much about FF lore, so please stop trying to argue with the game.

How childish... I'm well versed in FF lore which is why i'm using it to support my position.
But I can admit if I'm wrong. I probably am actually. Just provide a source saying she has all the power of every sorceress. Until then, the official Scan of her says she doesn't.

The official scan of her says she's using it, how would she take the power from all the sorceresses yet not have it?

Also:



Lol

and:



LOL

Um...what are you talking about?
I repeat:




oh fascist, when will you just give up? You will always be my inferior in every way. I know more than you ever could.

She does already have it. Go do five minutes worth of research and you'll see that because she is the last of the sorceresses and the only one in her time, all of the sorceress half of the great hyne is hers. She already has all of the sorceress power, this is fact.

She also destroyed nations in the future. Because her actions were know long before her actual birth and becoming a sorceress, she was persecuted and hated by all humanity for generations. Because she was hated many nations and armies tried to kill her, and she defeated all of them. This is why there are bodies littering the beach outside of her castle.



Is that why I've dominated you and nearly everyone has agreed with me in our FF debates?

I did do five minutes of research...I did about 60 hours actually if I remember my las tplay time right.

But whatever. . I don't even believe my position anymore.
I just provided a quote which to me pretty muchh flatly stated she didn't have the power of every sorceress but that does disagree with the idea of sorceress succession.
I just wish there was a translation of the FF8 Ultimania. I have it in the original japanese on my comp but I can't read it.

First off, appeal to the majority is a fallacy.
Second, I don't remember many people agreeing with you in the Xenosaga vs. FF debate.
And that's the only other FF debate I recall us having.

I also wish there were translations of the FF VIII Ultimania. They are working on translating the IX Ultimania right now though, so we should soon have two Ultimanias translated.

Back on subject:

It doesn't even really matter if she has all of it or not, the fact is that she wiped out armies and nations that persecuted her, and that this fight isn't one sided either way.

Also, there was the debate we had about Exdeath vs Kuja in which not even UltimaKuja, fangirl extraordinaire, agreed with you that Kuja would win.

Fascist is right, as the last sorceress Ultimecia logically would hold the totality of the Sorceress power's, where else would it go, Mars?The nature of the powers (more precisely how they are passed on) makes this a logical fact.

Also, didn't Ultimecia create the castle at the end and all the monster's within, or was that TC Ultimecia?

I already said I was probably wrong. I don't care enough about 8 anyway to continue this.

The Castle and everything was created by Ultimecia before she began to compress time. She used it as her base of operations to begin her plans, and from here she defended herself against White SeeD attacks with ease and destroyed the nation and armies opposing her. As for the monsters some of them were probably created, but the sorceresses she only pulled in after time compression when she could summon things from other times. We also know that she can create her own GFs from someone's thoughts before she begins to absorb the universe.

Ultimecia sucks in Kuja, the end.

Pay attention please.
Read the OP.

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
Ultimecia sucks in Kuja, the end. Hot.

This isn't Time Compression Ultimecia...



Something tells me Kuja would rather be sucked in by Seifer.

kuja

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Ultimecia has almost no feats in her regular form.

No offense, but your knowledge about Final Fantasy VIII is lame.

I'll begin naming some of her feats and abilities, sorry if I miss something.

Ultimecia can: Read minds, stop bullets, teleport herself (perform Teleportation), cast every Magical Spell she wants (including Maelstrom), walk through walls, she can stop Time, she can create and manipulate whatever creature she wants, extract horrible things from your subconscious, she can make your worst nightmare a reality, she enslaved powerful entities like Omega Weapon who was entirely at her disposal as well as many powerful creatures at her castle, she rules the world in the future, she created the most powerful GF just by taking it from Squall's mind.

I can add more but I think is enough.

Ultimecia wins, 'NUFF SAID.

Ultimecia at base could not even harm Kuja.

She has never shown the power Bahamut did.

That said, we know absolutely nothing about his other powers that I can remember.

Originally posted by NemeBro
She has never shown the power Bahamut did.

What does Bahamut have to do with Kuja?

Bahamut attacked Kuja and Kuja took it with a smile. He only got a small cut.

Huh? Kuja escaped from the attack with his Dragon, Bahamut hardly touched him. Aside of that, what does Bahamut have to do with Ultimecia? Ultimecia is weak as Bahamut is? What feats kuja have? Oh yeah, he can create Black Mages.

He escaped nothing, he was standing on the shoreline.

Ultimecia is nowhere near as powerful in terms of destruction as Bahamut is. Therefore, we can use that as evidence that Ultimecia can barely harm Kuja with her magics.

Of course he did, it wasn't even a direct hit.

So by your logic because Bahamut can destroy 'more' Kuja is more powerful than Ultimecia? How that follows? That doesn't make sense at all.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Of course he did, it wasn't even a direct hit.

So by your logic because Bahamut can destroy 'more' Kuja is more powerful than Ultimecia? How that follows? That doesn't make sense at all. ...Yes it was.

You're clearly illiterate. I said Ultimecia cannot harm Kuja to any real extent because Bahamut could not.

Sorry, it wasn't. Bahamut was throwing his Mega Flare attack randomly damaging all around the place, he hardly touched Kuja, then Kuja took his Dragon.

Because he hardly touched him. So you're implying that Ultimecia's Magic power is weaker than Bahamut's? What makes you think that Ultimecia could be weak as Bahamut considering all of her feats? Because it is not a big attack doesn't mean isn't powerful.

Kuja actually stood there to take Bahamut's hit first to test his power and after the hit he laughed at the sight of his own blood and complemented Bahamut.

Bahamut HARDLY touched Kuja with his Mega Flare, I can clearly see how he took his Dragon and then fly. Hell, Kuja had to call the Invincible to be able to control him, Ultimecia doesn't need such tricks, she already showed to be far more powerful than that creating and enslaving entities far more powerful than Bahamut. Kuja tested his powers? For what? He was about to enslaving him anyway. What if Kuja is smiling? That makes him a 'tough guy'? Lol?

He tested him to see if he was worth using. Lets just say that was a giant moogle, I don't think Kuja would want to use that unless it was actually hitting as hard as bahamut.

I don't think that Kuja would beat Bahamut.

Guess that would be up for debate, you don't really see much of normal Kuja at all.

Dude, Kuja doesn't have any advantages over Ultimecia, it's useless to argue that Kuja would defeat Ultimecia by himself. Bahamut was destroyed by Alexander so Bahamut means nothing in this argument and in a fight purely between Ultimecia and Kuja. Bahamut wouldn't come to help him either, and even if he does, Ultimecia would smoke Bahamut in seconds or make one of her minions to destroy him.

Trance Kuja would stand a chance against her, not normal Kuja.

Bahamut's attack serves as a test of Kuja's durability.
We have no such feats of durability for Ulty.

That's all that's being said. no one is saying Bahamut is a factor in this actual fight.

Wait, Kuja can't KOSMOS, yet people think he can beat Ultimecia?

You don't need to see Ultimecia's 'durability', I doubt Bahamut's attack would do something to her.

The people who thinks Kuja can beat Ultimecia by himself needs a reality check.

So your argument is "she wins because I say so. Screw the facts"?
Nice.

Wrong. I've already named some of her abilities so far, Kuja is indeed in a unfair disadvantage of power here. Although I admit that Trance Kuja would win.