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No PIS.
No CIS.

No jobbering.

Tyrant still whoops their butts

SS, Gladiator, Morg, Terrax, BRB, Jack of Hearts, Ganymede
and then Thanos faced him one on one i think and barely ran away.


Hmm Without PIS/CIS hard to tell i'm guessing team, mostly because a CIS free Firestorm is uber nasty. 6-7/10.

Hal: Ring forcefield, detect weakness, replicate energy.

Theoretically, Hal could copy the energy of the sticks that Ganymede's race used.

Tyrant easy

Tyrant, especially with cis off. He was toying with the top tiers he fought.

Team.

Tyrant

Flash is a wild-card, IMO; could Tyrant even keep up with him?

Originally posted by Harbinger
Flash is a wild-card, IMO; could Tyrant even keep up with him?

Dont have to, he have other ways of stopping flash since he is about 1/3 of what galactus is.

Originally posted by carver9
Dont have to, he have other ways of stopping flash since he is about 1/3 of what galactus is.
NO He's not.

Originally posted by fangirl101
NO He's not.

Why cant he when he could actually just telekinetically lift flash up off the ground while flash is attacking him.

Originally posted by carver9
Dont have to, he have other ways of stopping flash since he is about 1/3 of what galactus is.

Proof.

Originally posted by carver9
Why cant he when he could actually just telekinetically lift flash up off the ground while flash is attacking him.

Telekinesis has to be directed.

Originally posted by Galan007
Team.

I think this team can win the majority

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Proof.



Telekinesis has to be directed.

Ummm, it is going to be directed. I'm pretty sure that with the cosmic power that tyrant has he could amp his speed.

Team

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Hal: Ring forcefield, detect weakness, replicate energy.

Theoretically, Hal could copy the energy of the sticks that Ganymede's race used. You happen to have a scan of post-Crisis GL replicating different energy by any chance?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You happen to have a scan of post-Crisis GL replicating different energy by any chance?

ahem? uhuh

Originally posted by Raoul
ahem? uhuh Do you have a scan?

The result would be exactly the same as when Surfer, BRB, Glads, etc faced him. No one on the team can do anything to Tyrant, Tyrant 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000/10

Originally posted by Doom and Gloom
The result would be exactly the same as when Surfer, BRB, Glads, etc faced him. No one on the team can do anything to Tyrant, Tyrant 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000/10


Yup, because the JLA can't do shit when real bad guys come to fight.

team wins

I'd say CIS free Flash is the key to winning here, but Ganymede was also insanely fast and did practically nothing to Tyrant.




I'd go with the team about 6/10 times. I don't see Firestorm, Wonder Woman or Hal doing much damage, though. JLA would definitely take casualties.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I'd say CIS free Flash is the key to winning here, but Ganymede was also insanely fast and did practically nothing to Tyrant.




I'd go with the team about 6/10 times. I don't see Firestorm, Wonder Woman or Hal doing much damage, though. JLA would definitely take casualties. except hal and fs r the two most powerful. And wondy has te best defense abd that pesky lasso.

Originally posted by fangirl101
except hal and fs r the two most powerful. And wondy has te best defense abd that pesky lasso.

Tyrant's strong enough to easily shatter any of Hal's constructs, and as far as FS goes I think Tyrant's vast PC would easily counter any matter manipulation of his. Wondy I don't see as a problem, except for, like you say - that pesky lasso.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I'd say CIS free Flash is the key to winning here, but Ganymede was also insanely fast and did practically nothing to Tyrant.




I'd go with the team about 6/10 times. I don't see Firestorm, Wonder Woman or Hal doing much damage, though. JLA would definitely take casualties. How are they going to Win?

Originally posted by kgkg
How are they going to Win?

Wally's IMP and J'onn's intangible-ness are the only things I think would really affect Tyrant.

You really think Flash has enough to put down Tyrant?

Supes solos this d-level villain.

Originally posted by shokosugi
Supes solos this d-level villain. I always thought you was backwards.

Team wins.

Without PIS, this combination of powers/abilities are enough to get the win.

Originally posted by Avlon
Team wins.

Without PIS, this combination of powers/abilities are enough to get the win.

While I disagree and think Tyrant wins I hope your not as bad as some people who say Superman could solo Tyrant.

Originally posted by Avlon
Team wins.

Without PIS, this combination of powers/abilities are enough to get the win.

Will without CIS it is.

Originally posted by shokosugi
Supes solos this d-level villain.






supes sundipped couldnt beat even a Dp tyrant and im taking nothing away from supes. Physical strength is not enough here. And tyrant is by no means a D-level villan.

Originally posted by Nihilist
I always thought you was backwards.

Completely topsy turvy...

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Completely topsy turvy... you've been gone quite awhile...

As powerful as the team is, Tyrant (As long as he has access to his power) is to much for them to put down in my opinion.

His powers would allow him to counter almost anything they can come up with.

He was toying around with a bunch of top tiers before, and Galactus had to come rescue them. Hell even depowered Galactus knew it would be best not to mess with Tyrant.

Either way I give this to Tyrant. Just too damn powerful. If he wanted to put them down, he would be able to accomplish it quick enough.

Although I could see the team winning with team work and so on.

The Justice League has constantly gone against the odds and put down super villains that seemed to have the upper hand when it came to power. There power sets are so versatile, and with beings like Flash, and Superman on the team, they certainly have no shortage of power.

Originally posted by Starscream M
you've been gone quite awhile...

I know I've been busy with school and work. Came on to Marvel Boards a few times etc.

Is there any way you can check you're post record to see what threads you've been on etc.?

I would like to see if I have any non replied posts. I've been gone a while and I bet a few people have replied to me.

I recall having a debate with you.

Did we finish that?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I know I've been busy with school and work. Came on to Marvel Boards a few times etc.

Is there any way you can check you're post record to see what threads you've been on etc.?

I would like to see if I have any non replied posts. I've been gone a while and I bet a few people have replied to me.

I recall having a debate with you.

Did we finish that? click your name on the left, and then you can click on the link that says 'find all posts'. but you will have to manually search for responses, which i don't recommend.

yes we did have a debate. you conceded defeat to me though.

Originally posted by Starscream M
click your name on the left, and then you can click on the link that says 'find all posts'. but you will have to manually search for responses, which i don't recommend.

Thank you.

Originally posted by Starscream M
yes we did have a debate. you conceded defeat to me though.

Did you so quickly forget what I told you about separating dreams from reality?

I never conceded anything to you.

You were trying to argue that Hulk would beat Thor by using the "VS DVD" of all things and held it above the comics themselves if I recall (I think it was because I posted all their fights and Thor clearly had the advantage in terms of wins while Hulk never beat him once in a fight.). You also tried to debate that Juggernaut is more durable than Galactus if I recall.

I didn't concede anything.

If it's a joke though. Then it's actually quite humorous.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Wally's IMP and J'onn's intangible-ness are the only things I think would really affect Tyrant. What about speed-steal from Wally?

And FS can go intangible as well, btw.

Originally posted by Galan007
What about speed-steal from Wally?

He couldn't do it to Zoom, who wasn't getting his speed from the Speed Force but Time itself. Well, Tyrant's not powered by the Speed Force either, but by the Power Cosmic. I'm going to say it either won't work or won't matter. Amazo got out of it pretty quick, and Tyrant's durability is insane.

Originally posted by Enyalus
He couldn't do it to Zoom, who wasn't getting his speed from the Speed Force but Time itself. Well, Tyrant's not powered by the Speed Force either, but by the Power Cosmic. I'm going to say it either won't work or won't matter. Amazo got out of it pretty quick, and Tyrant's durability is insane. Is it? Cuz Ganymede Hurt the shit out of him with that weak staff.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Is it? Cuz Ganymede Hurt the shit out of him with that weak staff.

By 'hurt the shit out of' I assume you mean him yelling, "AAHHH!" but otherwise not budging, turning around immediately to one-shot her? Plus the staff was specially designed to work against him.

Originally posted by Enyalus
By 'hurt the shit out of' I assume you mean him yelling, "AAHHH!" but otherwise not budging, turning around immediately to one-shot her? Plus the staff was specially designed to work against him. And superman and Hal have both specifically tuned thier energies to work against specific opponents.

Originally posted by fangirl101
And superman and Hal have both specifically tuned thier energies to work against specific opponents.

Sure. But that isn't common knowledge. And yes, Hal's ring might be able to scan for a weakness. But finding it? And the Spinsterhood and their staves had been dead and gone for millenium prior to Tyrant's reappearance. I seriously doubt the type of energy used against him could be replicated easily.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Sure. But that isn't common knowledge. And yes, Hal's ring might be able to scan for a weakness. But finding it? And the Spinsterhood and their staves had been dead and gone for millenium prior to Tyrant's reappearance. I seriously doubt the type of energy used against him could be replicated easily. No more easily than say krytonite being remade after a quick scan. not that it matters. They have more than enough combined power to win.

Originally posted by fangirl101
They have more than enough combined power to win.

Yup. That's why I gave the team the majority.

Originally posted by fangirl101
And superman and Hal have both specifically tuned thier energies to work against specific opponents. When has Superman ever tuned his energy to imitate a completely foreign type of radiation? When has any post-Crisis GL ever tuned their plasma energy to imitate a completely foreign type of radiation?

tyrant threads never go smoothly.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
When has any post-Crisis GL ever tuned their plasma energy to imitate a completely foreign type of radiation?

I'm pretty sure they all did it during InfiniteCrisis.

Tyrant

easily

Originally posted by fangirl101
And superman and Hal have both specifically tuned thier energies to work against specific opponents.

When has Clark ever used his abilities to tune into and emit a foreign type of energy, and when has any New Earth Green Lantern ever used their plasma energy to completely imitate and radiation a foreign type of energy?

I do not recall that ever happening.

Tyrant wins this fight. He can with his powers almost anything a member of the other team can do and rather easily at that (Ignoring all personalized gifts etc.).

As powerful as this team is, I just see even depowered Tyrant winning this and coming out not looking much worse than he did coming in.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I'm pretty sure they all did it during InfiniteCrisis. You might want to try rereading Infinite Crisis.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Do you have a scan?

why do you ask for a pre crisis one?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Tyrant wins this fight. He can with his powers almost anything a member of the other team can do and rather easily at that (Ignoring all personalized gifts etc.).

Then you need to bring scans of him doing it.

I saw little more than energy blasts.

Originally posted by Raoul
why do you ask for a pre crisis one? I asked for a post-Crisis one.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I asked for a post-Crisis one.

what difference does it make?

^ All the difference in the world since this is current Hal Jordan and not pre-Crisis Hal Jordan.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ All the difference in the world since this is current Hal Jordan and not pre-Crisis Hal Jordan.

that would matter if there was a difference, when there isn't.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
When has Superman ever tuned his energy to imitate a completely foreign type of radiation? When has any post-Crisis GL ever tuned their plasma energy to imitate a completely foreign type of radiation?

Can any one answer this question? Cuz i just started seriously reading Gl comics a few months ago but i assumed this was something they could do fairly easily(along with matter manipulation etc).

Although the Pre-Crisis comics are mostly canon to current Kal El nowadays, he still doesn't perform those feats like waving his hands to create anti-anything-vibrations and such.

He's probably done a similar feat post crisis to the one being asked, but I can't think of one offhand, but my brain isn't in comic mode right now anyways,r eally.

I can't believe some are saying Flash is going to do anything. I see Flash getting dealt with rather easily. Same with Firestorm and MM. The ones that would give him some issues would be supes, ww (defense) and Hal. However, Tyrant has the power cosmic and like surfer can read and analyze his opponent for a weakness. That means Supes gets dealt with and then Hal and WW follow. The team doesn't have enough to put him down. Put somebody down who was one shotting a bunch of top tiers, making thanos flee for fear of being killed (you never hear thanos say that), and then later took it to a well fed Galactus. Tyrant has more then enough power and durability to deal with this team.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I can't believe some are saying Flash is going to do anything. I see Flash getting dealt with rather easily. Same with Firestorm and MM. The ones that would give him some issues would be supes, ww (defense) and Hal. However, Tyrant has the power cosmic and like surfer can read and analyze his opponent for a weakness. That means Supes gets dealt with and then Hal and WW follow. The team doesn't have enough to put him down. Put somebody down who was one shotting a bunch of top tiers, making thanos flee for fear of being killed (you never hear thanos say that), and then later took it to a well fed Galactus. Tyrant has more then enough power and durability to deal with this team.

ALL of the heralds have the power cosmic, but unless they have feats of applying it in the same way as the Surfer, we can't credit them with his feats.

It's the exact same thing with Tyrant.

Originally posted by Raoul
that would matter if there was a difference, when there isn't. Big difference. The disparity in versatility and power should be plainly obvious between pre-Crisis and post-Crisis GLs. Even if you want to ignore the last 20+ years, arguing they were unaffected because they remembered the Crisis and didn't amalgamate with any parallel counterparts or undergo a specifically detailed retcon or reboot is completely disingenuous. Why?

Kal-L was a pre-Crisis Kryptonian. He, more than anybody in such an attenuated category, should not have changed at all. He remembered the Crisis. He didn't amalgamate. The universe didn't try to fit him in. But he obviously changed. Because he was as strong as current Kal-El when he came back in Infinite Crisis. Very simple. We've had this conversation before.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Can any one answer this question? Cuz i just started seriously reading Gl comics a few months ago but i assumed this was something they could do fairly easily(along with matter manipulation etc). No. It's not. Common myth. Matter manipulation capabilities are also all over the place post-Crisis. Just look at the most recent issue of Superman/Batman:

http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/1527741_Superman_Batman_056014.jpg

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
ALL of the heralds have the power cosmic, but unless they have feats of applying it in the same way as the Surfer, we can't credit them with his feats.

It's the exact same thing with Tyrant.

So, let me get the straight... Somebody who has more cosmic power couldn't do something that somebody with a fraction of the same power could do? Not to mention how has been around longer and thus obviously become better versed in said power. Just because somebody hasn't done it and not been in many comics doesn't mean we throw common sense out the window when clearly he's a lot more powerful then surfer with more power cosmic to boot.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No. It's not. Common myth. Matter manipulation capabilities are also all over the place post-Crisis. Just look at the most recent issue of Superman/Batman:

http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/1527741_Superman_Batman_056014.jpg

Didn't know that was canon.

Kyle and the wog could create life though, in Rann/Thag

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No. It's not. Common myth. Matter manipulation capabilities are also all over the place post-Crisis. Just look at the most recent issue of Superman/Batman:

http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/1527741_Superman_Batman_056014.jpg So I guess every other time GLs create themselves or others oxygen masks or bubbles in space now, just got retconned.


It's cool dude. Make up your own continuity as you go.

^ I didn't write the comic. DC did.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Didn't know that was canon.

Kyle and the wog could create life though, in Rann/Thag Of course it's canon.

I'm aware, which is why I said their matter manipulation feats are all over the place. If you were to try to reconcile the two, they actually only extract oxygen from the mostly oxygen-depleted atmosphere and compel accelerated mutation of indigineous organisms to produce oxygen. Which is more in line with the recent Superman/Batman scan. Inducing accelerated mutation for organisms to start producing oxygen is a very round-about way to restore an atmosphere. Which speaks to the conclusion that, Kyle and Kilowog couldn't simply transmute the atmosphere into an oxygen-rich atmosphere.

Since John Stewart is on the Moon, he has nothing to work with except moonrocks. He can't transmute oxygen from room rocks, there's no atmosphere to extract sufficient oxygen levels from and he can't make it out of thin air.

Still. Makes you wonder how they fly around in space though.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ I didn't write the comic. DC did.
Of course it's canon.

I'm aware, which is why I said their matter manipulation feats are all over the place. If you were to try to reconcile the two, they actually only extract oxygen from the mostly oxygen-depleted atmosphere and compel accelerated mutation of indigineous organisms to produce oxygen. Which is more in line with the recent Superman/Batman scan. Inducing accelerated mutation for organisms to start producing oxygen is a very round-about way to restore an atmosphere. Which speaks to the conclusion that, Kyle and Kilowog couldn't simply transmute the atmosphere into oxygen.

Since John Stewart is on the Moon, he has nothing to work with except moonrocks. He can't transmute oxygen from room rocks, there's no atmosphere to extract sufficient oxygen levels from and he can't make it out of thin air.

Still. Makes you wonder how they fly around in space though. http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/5712/su1lr5.jpg Or how they fly tons of people through space?
Firestorm must be in there making oxygen.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So, let me get the straight... Somebody who has more cosmic power couldn't do something that somebody with a fraction of the same power could do? Not to mention how has been around longer and thus obviously become better versed in said power. Just because somebody hasn't done it and not been in many comics doesn't mean we throw common sense out the window when clearly he's a lot more powerful then surfer with more power cosmic to boot.

Is this really how people think.. Surfer could do something like scan with the PC and tyrant couldn't? That is just silly

Originally posted by Juntai
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/5712/su1lr5.jpg Or how they fly tons of people through space?
Firestorm must be in there making oxygen. You could reasonably assert that they made the bubbles around the people while on Earth, which captures sufficient air before they fly off. Either way, it still does makes you facepalm.

Lol @ Firestorm making oxygen. I missed that joke.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Then you need to bring scans of him doing it.

I saw little more than energy blasts.

Tyrant, is Tyrant.

As short as his appearances were, he was the first herald(In a way.).

Anything Silver Surfer etc. can do, he should be able to do effortlessly.

Tyrant has been around much longer than any other herald, is much more experienced than any other herald, and has much more power than them.

It's just common sense in my opinion.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Tyrant, is Tyrant.

As short as his appearances were, he was the first herald(In a way.).

Anything Silver Surfer etc. can do, he should be able to do effortlessly.

Tyrant has been around much longer than any other herald, is much more experienced than any other herald, and has much more power than them.

It's just common sense in my opinion.

QFT.

It's just stupid to think Surfer could scan for weakness and Tyrant couldn't just because he didn't do it during his limited showings.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You could reasonably assert that they made the bubbles around the people while on Earth, which captures sufficient air before they fly off. Either way, it still does makes you facepalm.

Lol @ Firestorm making oxygen. I missed that joke. Here's a brain wracker for real though.
In the LEGION OF SUPERHEROS, it lists the specific powers of the Flight ring. One of the powers is that it protects them in all envirements from the effects of weather, radiation, etc. So they can survive in any atmosphere. Yet, Superman wears his all the time invisibly and Kryptonite and Red Sun radiation still affect him, despite that he often shrugs it off, it simply shouldn't happen.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Tyrant, is Tyrant.

As short as his appearances were, he was the first herald(In a way.).

Anything Silver Surfer etc. can do, he should be able to do effortlessly.

Tyrant has been around much longer than any other herald, is much more experienced than any other herald, and has much more power than them.

It's just common sense in my opinion. However, still a character trait that he NEVER HAS.
Not even once in '65, like half of Thor's feats.

Originally posted by Juntai
Firestorm must be in there making oxygen. Yep, because we already know GL's are incapable of that feat.

Originally posted by Juntai
However, still a character trait that he NEVER HAS.
Not even once in '65, like half of Thor's feats.

Ummm....what?

Maybe it's just me, but that post made no sense to me.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
QFT.

It's just stupid to think Surfer could scan for weakness and Tyrant couldn't just because he didn't do it during his limited showings.

I know.

This dude was made in Galactus' image and even when depowered Galan showed him a great deal of respect for a reason.

It's silly to think that Silver Surfer could do anything that Tyrant couldn't accomplish.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Ummm....what?

Maybe it's just me, but that post made no sense to me. When you operate on a higher level of thought, its tough to print them two dimensionally.

Originally posted by Juntai
Here's a brain wracker for real though.
In the LEGION OF SUPERHEROS, it lists the specific powers of the Flight ring. One of the powers is that it protects them in all envirements from the effects of weather, radiation, etc. So they can survive in any atmosphere. Yet, Superman wears his all the time invisibly and Kryptonite and Red Sun radiation still affect him, despite that he often shrugs it off, it simply shouldn't happen. My guess is that the flight rings only protect you from stuff that would be lethal to a normal human. Red sunlight is harmless to normal humans as is kryptonite radiation. Lead is also harmless. But all of those things have, in fact, affected Legion flight-ring bearers.

This team has no chance against the mighty Tyrant.

the two teams he faced before were easily put down, and even after a amped thanos was beating and blasting on him, which had no lasting effects.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
My guess is that the flight rings only protect you from stuff that would be lethal to a normal human. Red sunlight is harmless to normal humans as is kryptonite radiation. Lead is also harmless. But all of those things have, in fact, affected Legion flight-ring bearers. Fair enough, but when regular humans make up very little of your actual team? lol.

Brainy might be a 12th level intelligence, but Batman would have thought of this.

Originally posted by Juntai
Fair enough, but when humans make up very little of your actual team? lol.

Brainy might be a 12th level intelligence, but Batman would have thought of this. Even though the Legion is based on Earth, I agree that it is very Earth-centric. Which is actually part of the plot in the Superman and the Legion of Super-Heroes storyline.

Batman = Nth level intelligence. He's so smart, he can actually think and take away powers from GL continuity. Bat-kick is nothing.

I don't think people are giving the JLA their due. Fighting as individuals, Tyrant would likely walk over them, barring a miraculous Superman moment, but the JLA would be a much tougher TEAM than the one faced previously. The JLA handled situations as such often enough to show they don't simply get mopped up.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Even though the Legion is based on Earth, I agree that it is very Earth-centric. Which is actually part of the plot in the Superman and the Legion of Super-Heroes storyline.

Batman = Nth level intelligence. He's so smart, he can actually think and take away powers from GL continuity. Bat-kick is nothing. Well, he was also blended with Superman for that story.

Originally posted by Juntai
When you operate on a higher level of thought, its tough to print them two dimensionally.

It made no sense.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It made no sense. Sure it did, in context of the discussion.

Originally posted by Juntai
Well, he was also blended with Superman for that story. Superman can rewrite GL continuity. Superbat proved it so. On. Panel. Call the Superman-fanboys, this is better than super-whistle or t-vo. dur

Tyrant hasn't shown the ability to find weaknesses in opponents he can't do it here

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Superman can rewrite GL continuity. Superbat proved it so. On. Panel. Call the Superman-fanboys, this is better than super-whistle or t-vo. dur What about the time he rubbed his hands together to close a hole in the space/time continuum that was going to possibly annihilate existance, unchecked?

Originally posted by iceman24567
Tyrant hasn't shown the ability to find weaknesses in opponents he can't do it here he doesnt need to, seeing as no one the team can put him down.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Tyrant, is Tyrant.

As short as his appearances were, he was the first herald(In a way.).

Anything Silver Surfer etc. can do, he should be able to do effortlessly.

Tyrant has been around much longer than any other herald, is much more experienced than any other herald, and has much more power than them.

It's just common sense in my opinion.

Weak/Speculation.

It's illogical in my opinion to assume that Tyrant cannot scan a being and discover their weakness when Silver Surfer can.

Besides, OneDumb, I think SBP showed us retcons are in the powerset.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It's illogical in my opinion to assume that Tyrant cannot scan a being and discover their weakness when Silver Surfer can.

It's not illogical, he's never done it before.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It's illogical in my opinion to assume that Tyrant cannot scan a being and discover their weakness when Silver Surfer can. Originally posted by Juntai
However, still a character trait that he NEVER HAS.
Not even once in '65, like half of Thor's feats.

Wow, precognition.Originally posted by Juntai
When you operate on a higher level of thought, its tough to print them two dimensionally.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Weak/Speculation.

It's not weak speculation, it's just common sense.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It's illogical in my opinion to assume that Tyrant cannot scan a being and discover their weakness when Silver Surfer can. So we are to assume he can do something he has never done because Surfer can? Not on here that's just not logical.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It's not weak speculation, it's just common sense.

I guess I'll have to pull a moderator in here to tell you just how ridiculously stupid it is.

It should be trivial for one such as him. He was created in Galactus' image and then was depowered and even still Galactus gave up his herald just to avoid a fight with him.

I have to go, we will finish this later.

Nah its basically finished now since you can't prove he can do it even if you had all the comics ever made

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It should be trivial for one such as him. He was created in Galactus' image and then was depowered and even still Galactus gave up his herald just to avoid a fight with him.

I have to go, we will finish this later. Read the post at the top of this page.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I guess I'll have to pull a moderator in here to tell you just how ridiculously stupid it is.

Yes please get a moderator so he can clarify this. It's seems Illogical that Tyrant couldn't do something surfer could do considering he's older, with more experience iwth the PC and more of it. So, please get a moderator to explain the rules on this. Tyrant has limited appearances far far far fewer then surfer which explain to me why this wasn't seen.

Team.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Yes please get a moderator so he can clarify this. It's seems Illogical that Tyrant couldn't do something surfer could do considering he's older, with more experience iwth the PC and more of it. So, please get a moderator to explain the rules on this. Tyrant has limited appearances far far far fewer then surfer which explain to me why this wasn't seen.

I think that in the long run look at the heralds...they are not all the same...they dont all share the same feats,we should not give feats that a character has never done.....i do understand where your coming from though...but its not an option here on the vs boards...and i dont think it should be.

FYI if this helps anyone, Tyrant is like Power Cosmic incarnate. Other heralds after him were people imbued with the PC. I believe Tyrant is Power cosmic given bodily form.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
FYI if this helps anyone, Tyrant is like Power Cosmic incarnate. Other heralds after him were people imbued with the PC. I believe Tyrant is Power cosmic given bodily form. If this were so then whey does he need to constantly feed on the energies of others in the form of orbs hmmm?

Originally posted by fangirl101
If this were so then whey does he need to constantly feed on the energies of others in the form of orbs hmmm? The same reason Galactus needs to eat planets?

Originally posted by Mindset
The same reason Galactus needs to eat planets?
becuz neither are energy incarnate. Not this infinite PC that people would think. they draw upon the power cosmic as do the heralds. just to a much larger degree. and Galactus eats planets becuz he must. To maintain balance.

Originally posted by fangirl101
becuz neither are energy incarnate. Not this infinite PC that people would think. they draw upon the power cosmic as do the heralds. just to a much larger degree. and Galactus eats planets becuz he must. To maintain balance.
Galactus and Tyrant could be PC incarnate and still need to feed.

Idk about Tyrant, but Galactus is really an energy being.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Big difference. The disparity in versatility and power should be plainly obvious between pre-Crisis and post-Crisis GLs. Even if you want to ignore the last 20+ years, arguing they were unaffected because they remembered the Crisis and didn't amalgamate with any parallel counterparts or undergo a specifically detailed retcon or reboot is completely disingenuous. Why?

Kal-L was a pre-Crisis Kryptonian. He, more than anybody in such an attenuated category, should not have changed at all. He remembered the Crisis. He didn't amalgamate. The universe didn't try to fit him in. But he obviously changed. Because he was as strong as current Kal-El when he came back in Infinite Crisis. Very simple. We've had this conversation before.

superman is the exception, not the rule.

also, there isn't a huge disparity between pre 86 gl's and post 86 gl's for several years. it's really only up to hal going off the deep end. after that, things died down. and even then, kyle has some really nice feats.

and there is the fact that tons of other characters are written less stupidly than they were back before the crisis.

there's no DEFINITIVE evidence to suggest the gl's were changed. unless you can get definitive proof, then s'far as im concerned, the comics stand.



also, as far as the tyrant thing goes. unless he has superior cosmic awareness feats or matter/energy manipulation, then no, he can't have surfer's feats.

Originally posted by Raoul
superman is the exception, not the rule.

also, there isn't a huge disparity between pre 86 gl's and post 86 gl's for several years. it's really only up to hal going off the deep end. after that, things died down. and even then, kyle has some really nice feats.

and there is the fact that tons of other characters are written less stupidly than they were back before the crisis.

there's no DEFINITIVE evidence to suggest the gl's were changed. unless you can get definitive proof, then s'far as im concerned, the comics stand.



also, as far as the tyrant thing goes. unless he has superior cosmic awareness feats or matter/energy manipulation, then no, he can't have surfer's feats.

I didn't say he should have his feats I'm saying logic should be used.

1. Tyrant has a lot less showings then Surfer and I thought there was a rule that just because somebody has displayed a feat/power doesn't mean he can't do it. Now character to character with totally different powers it's reasonable that Konvict can't clone himself like MM. They aren't close to the same. However, when you have somebody with WAY more PC then another character who is able to perform a feat with the PC thus it logical he should. It's not like they are drawing from different power sources. They are drawing from the same source it's just that some have adapted and perfected and gained more awareness then others. Tyrant has been around longer and thus just by that alone has more practice and more awareness of his powers one would have to assume and he has more of it to begin with.

2. Surfer has been in way more comics. So, isn't it also logical that because that is the case it's also could stand to reason that Tyrant could display a scanning for weakness awareness had he been in more comics. How can the lack of showings and the above not factor into things?

Lastly, does somebody have scans or know of a time when Galactus scanned a enemy to find out their weakness and then used that to defeat an enemy. I'm looking for examples of when this has happened. I can't think of any of the top of my head so maybe somebody has them. If he hasn't then that further proves my point. Now were going to say Galactus can't do what SS can do....that is just silly

Originally posted by Raoul
superman is the exception, not the rule.

also, there isn't a huge disparity between pre 86 gl's and post 86 gl's for several years. it's really only up to hal going off the deep end. after that, things died down. and even then, kyle has some really nice feats.

and there is the fact that tons of other characters are written less stupidly than they were back before the crisis.

there's no DEFINITIVE evidence to suggest the gl's were changed. unless you can get definitive proof, then s'far as im concerned, the comics stand.You've got it backwards. The general rule is that the Crisis changed DC characters, mostly to the extent of erasing, resetting or simply depowering their more silly feats/histories. You're trying to argue that the GLs are the exception to this general rule simply because they remember the Crisis and weren't specifically retconned/rebooted.

First, even if we gave you a pass on this suspect reasoning, it doesn't work. All things considered equal, your reasoning is both logical and possible. But it's completely contradicted by the depowering of Kal-L. He, like the GLs, remembered the Crisis and was not directly retconned/rebooted. There is no positive evidence that there was a specific depowerment or retcon/reboot of Kal-L. He, more than anybody, is exactly the same character that he was when he entered the Crisis and came back from the Crisis. Just one glaring problem: When he reappeared in Infinite Crisis, he was pretty much Kal-El's equal, a severe depowering from PC-Kryptonian levels.

You're trying to argue that Kal-L is the exception to the exception to the general rule. And that doesn't wash because you haven't distinguished the so-called "attributes" that make GLs "special."

The only people who would fit into your exception to the rule would be the Green Lanterns, and empirically speaking, they don't even conform. There's nothing post-1986 that comes close to the zaniness of pre-Crisis absurdity. Kyle has always been a special case for reasons of specific plot, i.e. special ring, Ion energies, etc.

I don't need DEFINITIVE evidence. I shouldn't be forced to prove a negative, even though I have. The fact remains: current GLs are nowhere near as powerful as they were pre-Crisis. The Crisis had that effect on everyone. The last 20+ years of current continuity is evidence of this. There is no reason to treat GLs as an exception. This is especially true because any attenuated rationalization based on them "being above/outside the Crisis and not specifically rebooted/retconned," is outright contradicted by Kal-L's situation.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You've got it backwards. The general rule is that the Crisis changed DC characters, mostly to the extent of erasing, resetting or simply depowering their more silly feats/histories. You're trying to argue that the GLs are the exception to this general rule simply because they remember the Crisis and weren't specifically retconned/rebooted.

First, even if we gave you a pass on this suspect reasoning, it doesn't work. All things considered equal, your reasoning is both logical and possible. But it's completely contradicted by the depowering of Kal-L. He, like the GLs, remembered the Crisis and was not directly retconned/rebooted. There is no positive evidence that there was a specific depowerment or retcon/reboot of Kal-L. He, more than anybody, is exactly the same character that he was when he entered the Crisis and came back from the Crisis. Just one glaring problem: When he reappeared in Infinite Crisis, he was pretty much Kal-El's equal, a severe depowering from PC-Kryptonian levels.

You're trying to argue that Kal-L is the exception to the exception to the general rule. And that doesn't wash because you haven't distinguished the so-called "attributes" that make GLs "special."

The only people who would fit into your exception to the rule would be the Green Lanterns, and empirically speaking, they don't even conform. There's nothing post-1986 that comes close to the zaniness of pre-Crisis absurdity. Kyle has always been a special case for reasons of specific plot, i.e. special ring, Ion energies, etc.

I don't need DEFINITIVE evidence. I shouldn't be forced to prove a negative, even though I have. The fact remains: current GLs are nowhere near as powerful as they were pre-Crisis. The Crisis had that effect on everyone. The last 20+ years of current continuity is evidence of this. There is no reason to treat GLs as an exception. This is especially true because any attenuated rationalization based on them "being above/outside the Crisis and not specifically rebooted/retconned," is outright contradicted by Kal-L's situation. However the point of Infinite Crisis, is that it undid what COIE did.

Similarly, current Kal El, and even Batman's, and pretty much the rest of the DC heros stories, now involve their pre-crisis issues.

And Superman's reboot no longer applies as his origin.

However, I must say I'm still mostly against using 1960s and 70s scans as evidence, as it was wholly a different era in both of the big two.

Originally posted by Juntai
However, I must say I'm still mostly against using 1960s and 70s scans as evidence, as it was wholly a different era in both of the big two. agreed, more weight should be given to more recent evidence

Originally posted by Juntai
However the point of Infinite Crisis, is that it undid what COIE did.

Similarly, current Kal El, and even Batman's, and pretty much the rest of the DC heros stories, now involve their pre-crisis issues.

And Superman's reboot no longer applies as his origin. It didn't specifically undo what COIE did. It did split the DC Universe into a 52 Multiverse. It did reintroduce some history as Alexandor Luthor states on-panel, e.g. Wonderwoman was a founding member. But that doesn't necessarily reintroduce PC powerlevels. In terms of a reversion to PC continuity as you suggest, Powergirl was specifically reverted to be that same Earth-2 PC Powergirl she always was. She definitely isn't at PC levels now.

...

You're just trying to get PC-Superman's feats into current Superman's resume now, aren't you? uhuh

Some pre-Crisis continuity was reincorporated back into several of DC's characters. But that has been progressively happening for a while and has happened more in issues of Superman and Justice League more than anything. But every adventure we specifically see retold in those storylines, showcases levels of power that are much more aligned with current continuity rather than PC continuity. I think that much is clear.

Originally posted by Juntai
However, I must say I'm still mostly against using 1960s and 70s scans as evidence, as it was wholly a different era in both of the big two. As I've read more classic Marvel, their 1960's and 1970's are just fine. Especially when the more suspect aspects have been consistently reinforced decade after decade. For example:
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
XII. DOOM'S INVENTIONS

To better showcase Doom's genius, I've catalogued nearly all of Doom's inventions from his appearances. Some appear to be quite far-fetched, but I paid special attention to the more outlandish inventions to see if they made more than one appearance to give them credibility and weight. For instance, in Doom's second appearance in Fantastic Four #6, he creates a Magnetic Grabber to propel the entire Baxter Building into outer space:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Inventions/DoomDevice01-MagneticGrabber6.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Inventions/DoomDevice02-MagneticGrabber6.jpg

And if you think that's just silly Silver Age stuff, well... the Magnetic Grabber makes another appearance decades later in Fantastic Four #278:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Inventions/DoomDevice29-MagneticGrabber278.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Inventions/DoomDevice30-MagneticGrabber278.jpg

Another of Doom's seemingly more outlandish inventions is the Molecule Expander. It emits intensified molecules which expand to the size of boulders, as first seen in Marvel Superheroes #20. Don't worry, you'll see it again:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Inventions/DoomDevice12b-MoleculeExpanderMarve.jpg
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
XV. DOOM'S ARMOR (cont'd)

Doom's armor is outfitted with a plethora of offensive gadgets. Here is a catalogue of built-in armaments that you would expect Doom to have. Again, any of the more zany ones, I've paid attention to whether or not there have been repeat appearances. Surprisingly, there are...

And remember that goofy Molecular Expander? Yeah... he built it into his armor by Astonishing Tales #3:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Inventions/DoomArmor04-FieldNullifierMolecular.jpg

And uses the Molecular Expander against Iron Man in Iron Man #149:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Inventions/DoomArmor32-MoleculeExpanderIronMan.jpg

And uses the Molecular Expander again in Amazing Spiderman #350:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Inventions/DoomArmor39-MoleculeExpander350.jpgI've got lots of examples from lots of Marvel characters, Doom just being an obvious one.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
As I've read more classic Marvel, their 1960's and 1970's are just fine. Especially when the more suspect aspects have been consistently reinforced decade after decade. For example:. Got any examples of current Hulk clapping any or multiple universes to dust in one shot in there?

Again, powerlevels now and then, are different, in both companies, despite being in continuity, in both companies.

One isn't more viable in the other, just because you say so, bro.

Originally posted by Juntai
Got any examples of current Hulk clapping any universes to dust in there?

Again, powerlevels now and then, are different, in both companies, despite being in continuity, in both companies. IIRC, that happened in the early 80's and I think it was a dimension, not a universe. I can definitely show you stuff for Thor that I think you might find surprising later tonight when I get access to my scans.

Agreed. But powerlevels for current GLs and pre-Crisis GLs are different and the reasoning that they are in continuity is extremely disputable. If they show Hal in a flashback turning someone into a bird or turning an atomic blast into confetti, by all means, use it. Til then, I'll not give them the benefit of the doubt when they had a company-wide event which specifically retconned out that exact type of Silver Age nonsense.

Without PIS, or CIS Team wins. Flashes steals all his speed while the others batter him to death

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I guess I'll have to pull a moderator in here to tell you just how ridiculously stupid it is.

Please do. I would love to see a moderator explain this to me.

They both draw power from the same source, but Tyrant is much more experienced, much more adept and much more powerful.

It's not as if he gets his powers from the Sun. They are both Power Cosmic empowered beings but Tyrant was the first and was the one with the greatest reserves of power.

Different beings empowered by the Power Cosmic have different awareness, different levels of experience and different levels of power.

Silver Surfer and Nova etc.

Tyrant draws his power from the same source, but has had much more time to learn, adapt etc. to his powers, and is so much more powerful than Silver Surfer.

Nothing Norrin can do should be beyond his abilities. It's really simple.

It's just common sense.


Originally posted by iceman24567 Nah its basically finished now since you can't prove he can do it even if you had all the comics ever made



True enough.

Seriously though, it's just common sense in this situation to understand that Tyrant can do what any other Power Cosmic Herald can do.

Have we ever seen Galactus drain Gamma Energy from a being, or scan an enemy for weaknesses?

I don't believe we have but it doesn't mean he can't.

We are not comparing beings with two completely different power sources.

One is just more experienced, more powerful, more adept etc. than the other.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Without PIS, or CIS Team wins. Flashes steals all his speed while the others batter him to death

That ain't likely in my opinion.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Please do. I would love to see a moderator explain this to me.

I did.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That ain't likely in my opinion.
Why not? At this point Flash steals his speed since CIS is off and gives more speed to others. GL and FS will be exploiting weaknesses while others batter him to death. Don't forget he is a statue once flash uses his power

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That ain't likely in my opinion. But Tyrant analyzing Superman with the Power Cosmic and finding his weakness is likely? The Flash scenario is obviously more likely since it has happened on panel if you ask me just common sense actually.

Again it come down to what's probable and possible. yes it's possible he can't do this as he never displayed it. However, it's probable that he could do that very thing. i choose to side with what's probable.

Nah it comes down to what has happened and what hasn't. We don't assume he can do something he has never done and use it on here i don't think KMC works like that and it shouldn't.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Why not? At this point Flash steals his speed since CIS is off and gives more speed to others. GL and FS will be exploiting weaknesses while others batter him to death. Don't forget he is a statue once flash uses his power

My favorite character is Wally West and I love him as much as anyone could, but I find it unlikely that would work on someone like Tyrant.

I'm not saying it can't as he has done it to Inertia, and PIS free Flash who doesn't get toned down can beat the crap out of most people but haven't other beings resisted this ability before?

Ones who aren't connected to the Speed Force?

I could be wrong though as it's been a while since I try to keep anything Flash related out of mind nowadays. His book has been horrible lately.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Again it come down to what's probable and possible. yes it's possible he can't do this as he never displayed it. However, it's probable that he could do that very thing. i choose to side with what's probable.

thumbsup

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
My favorite character is Wally West and I love him as much as anyone could, but I find it unlikely that would work on someone like Tyrant.

I'm not saying it can't as he has done it to Inertia, and PIS free Flash who doesn't get toned down can beat the crap out of most people but haven't other beings resisted this ability before?

Ones who aren't connected to the Speed Force?

I could be wrong though as it's been a while since I try to keep anything Flash related out of mind nowadays. His book has been horrible lately.

Originally posted by Raoul
superman is the exception, not the rule.

also, there isn't a huge disparity between pre 86 gl's and post 86 gl's for several years. it's really only up to hal going off the deep end. after that, things died down. and even then, kyle has some really nice feats.

and there is the fact that tons of other characters are written less stupidly than they were back before the crisis.

there's no DEFINITIVE evidence to suggest the gl's were changed. unless you can get definitive proof, then s'far as im concerned, the comics stand.



also, as far as the tyrant thing goes. unless he has superior cosmic awareness feats or matter/energy manipulation, then no, he can't have surfer's feats.

Okay, thank you. The bottom sentence reflects some light on this situation.

Still, I find it odd that people cannot except Tyrant being able to do something as simple as scan beings for weaknesses when he is a bigger, badder, more experienced Power Cosmic wielding being than Silver Surfer.

So if we go by that logic directly, if Galactus hasn't shown the ability to scan a being for weakness, we have to assume he cannot?

bangin

Originally posted by Juntai
Read the post at the top of this page.

LOL!



Now it makes sense.

Team wins about 4 out of 10

After discarding completely useless or obsolete characters it'll be Superman and Hal Jordan vs Tyrant. (I am assuming that this is standard FS).

They alone can't beat him.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Okay, thank you. The bottom sentence reflects some light on this situation.

Still, I find it odd that people cannot except Tyrant being able to do something as simple as scan beings for weaknesses when he is a bigger, badder, more experienced Power Cosmic wielding being than Silver Surfer.

So if we go by that logic directly, if Galactus hasn't shown the ability to scan a being for weakness, we have to assume he cannot?

bangin

What's even more strange is your inability to understand that Galactus =/= Tyrant.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
What's even more strange is your inability to understand that Galactus =/= Tyrant.

I'm not saying he is Galactus (Although he was made in his image.) but by using that logic, we are assuming Galactus can't scan a being for weaknesses because he hasn't shown the ability.

Tyrant like Galactus (Not saying he is on Galan's level etc.) is much more powerful, much more adept, much more experienced, has access to much more levels of Power Cosmic compared to the heralds.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'm not saying he is Galactus (Although he was made in his image.) but by using that logic, we are assuming Galactus can't scan a being for weaknesses because he hasn't shown the ability.

Galactus has on many occasion displayed great cosmic awareness and his consciousness exist on a different plane the Surfer's, and evidently, Tyrant's. And you don't know how Tyrant spent his thousands of years, just like we don't know how the rest of the heralds spend their time. We can't automatically assume that they're as proficient as the surfer.

Maybe if he did something beyond using energy blasts, we could.

Nor is it logical that he would try to use odd tactics when he's more powerful than every single member. He was incapable of taking down Thanos, but still kept on trying to overpower him

^ even if he does indeed possess CA, tyrant looks like he doesn't resort to using it.

Tyrant takes the fight to space, only FS can make oxygen.

punching them to death is faster.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Galactus has on many occasion displayed great cosmic awareness and his consciousness exist on a different plane the Surfer's, and evidently, Tyrant's. And you don't know how Tyrant spent his thousands of years, just like we don't know how the rest of the heralds spend their time. We can't automatically assume that they're as proficient as the surfer.

Maybe if he did something beyond using energy blasts, we could.

Nor is it logical that he would try to use odd tactics when he's more powerful than every single member. He was incapable of taking down Thanos, but still kept on trying to overpower him

Oy. This is going no where.

Tyrant isn't likely to scan an enemy for a weakness as he is more powerful than any member here individually like you said buts it's rally rather pointless to assume that Tyrant cannot scan a being for his weakness.

Tyrant has always wanted to acquire power, and to be proficient with you're power you would need mastery over it.

Again, going by this logic, because Galactus has never shown the direct ability to scan a being and learn their weaknesses it means he can't.

Either way, I tire of this.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Tyrant isn't likely to scan an enemy for a weakness as he is more powerful than any member here individually like you said buts it's rally rather pointless to assume that Tyrant cannot scan a being for his weakness.

For the record, in this fight he would scan for weaknesses.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
For the record, in this fight he would scan for weaknesses.

Why? He'd KO Superman in a maximum of three strikes. That's being generous.

And fire's pretty easily produced for J'onn, even by dumb luck.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
For the record, in this fight he would scan for weaknesses.

Tyrant wouldn't need to.