Ganon vs Chaos Vincent

ScreamPaste

In terms of durability, without the triforce Ganon survives a blade through the head without his piece of the triforce, brings down an entire castle on himself by yelling at it while (sort of) near death and takes no damage, and tanks multiple hits from any version of Link who as far as I can tell could probably one shot Vincent based on raw strength.

In terms of raw physical strength Ganon is even stronger than Link, and can literally strike stone hard enoguh it disintegrates from his raw power, with a blade.

Ganon can TK vincent, seal him between dimensions, or possess him.

Voyeur

Ganon as in Ganondorf?

EDIT: I'll get some videos.

Terryc250

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
The video of him destroying Omega and making the planet "quake," which canonically did nothing to the planet, is due to Omega exploding.

And Ganon is physically stronger than OoT Link, who threw a gigantic piece of Black Granite like it was a basketball.
It didn't destroy the planet, but it did quake it and sent ripples down the entire planet

No, why would Omega explode? He's not a machine, he's a creature.

Link didn't throw any black granite and where does it state Ganon is physically stronger then him anyway.

From what I heard, Zant can only do it at a specific spot, and not anytime, whenever, wherever he wants.

XanatosForever

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
The video of him destroying Omega and making the planet "quake," which canonically did nothing to the planet, is due to Omega exploding.

It's not even that much, TGE. I already saw this happen in the Trance Kuja vs Link & Dante thread. It's a cinematic effect.

If the planet had truly quaked, basic physics would tell you that the surface of the world would have been forced into a ripple effect, because a planet's surface is solid only for a few miles deep, and a strike of that magnitude would send the crust of the planet off like when you punch a water bed.

That "quake" you saw was simply the cinematographer's fancy way of making the attack seem more powerful than it actually was.

Terryc250

A cinematic effect? Uhh, those ripples are real.

Nor do we even know what happened to the planet afterwards because thats the end of the game.

It took out Omega WEAPON who almost dwarfs Midgar

http://www.ffcompendium.com/chara/7doc-omega-o.jpg

The size of midgar is so big that it can be seen clearly from outer space looking down on the planet

ThunderGodEneru

Originally posted by Terryc250
It didn't destroy the planet, but it did quake it and sent ripples down the entire planet

No, why would Omega explode? He's not a machine, he's a creature.

Link didn't throw any black granite and where does it state Ganon is physically stronger then him anyway.

From what I heard, Zant can only do it at a specific spot, and not anytime, whenever, wherever he wants. 1. And did not harm anyone in Midgar, who were at Ground Zero.

2. Because a giant hole was ripped through it and Omega's entire purpose is transporting energy and ripping a hole in it could cause a chemical reaction that would blow it up?

3. Yeah, he did, that stone was clearly black granite. Ganon is physically stronger than every incarnation of Link with the exception of TP Link who is his equal.

4. Bullshit.

Voyeur

You say Ganondorf can have his Triforce of Power but can not be invulnerable or immortal, which are actually two traits he has because of the Triforce of Power. So it's sort of a contradiction.

rbcmNoWBedE
@ 00:00-1:50 and 5:16-End
Ganondorf is able to take the force and weight of an entire crumbling castle on his already 'weakened' state, summon flames and take 3 direct slashes to his face and a lunge, I assume penetrated his skull, from a the very sword that is his bane at its powered up state. And they didn't even kill him, they had to banish him to another dimension.

ELJaJi-1Q6s
This shows Ganondorf is able to disintegrate an entire being. Not to mention that he can take a weapon that is conjured out of the might of the sages, pull it out of himself, living, breathing, while that part of his body will for ever be banished out of existence. Unable to regenerate or even bleed from it, since that is what happens when matter or atoms and particles are taken out of the normal plane and brought to another dimension, he can't recover or even get a scar from that wound. He goes through out the rest of the game with it, unphased.

VDSPEfyrnwc
Ganondorf shows that he can become nothing more then pure, raw energy in the form of a sentient being that transcends the physical plane of existence. This scene also proves again as in from the Forest Temple boss in OoT that Ganondorf seems to have a knowledge of necromancy. In that he can summon spirits to fight under his cause, not to mention his raw power to bring down the entire (much larger) Hyrule Castle and also being able to conjur a steed to himself as well. And as for the form and power that Midna herself exerted is a magic that the Gods even banished from the grasp of anyone in the world of Hyrule, they deemed it to powerful and even with that, Ganondorf was able to trounce it.
Fused Shadow Video It talks about it in that clip.

Bx0Yfg6EasQ
this shows that Ganondorf also later has the ability to trap off and bring the power of the Twilight realm under his control at will. So he could merely trap Vincent in to something of this effect, seeing as Vincent does not have the Master Sword to ward off additional magintude from Ganondorf's abilities. Ganondorf can also posess people who are not protected by greater magics that cut off his own, e.g. Puppet Zelda with out her Triforce of Wisdom in TP.

ScreamPaste

Terry, we already had the argument over the rock type it pretty much has to be black granite, lol.

And I don't think TP Link is stronger than Ganondorf, tbh, at that point he'd already done three rounds of combat with Link and one of the master sword's confirmed effcts is that it cancels out his power, which is the only reason he even goes enert at the end. Naturally Link could over power him by then. I also happen to think OoT Link is stronger than TP Link though.

Terryc250

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. And did not harm anyone in Midgar, who were at Ground Zero.

2. Because a giant hole was ripped through it and Omega's entire purpose is transporting energy and ripping a hole in it could cause a chemical reaction that would blow it up?

3. Yeah, he did, that stone was clearly black granite. Ganon is physically stronger than every incarnation of Link with the exception of TP Link who is his equal.

4. Bullshit.

1) We don't even know what damage it could've caused because the game ends right there

Either way if Omega couldn't take it, Ganon wouldn't take it either.

2) No.. it's not fuel, gas or even really energy, Omega's purpose was to transport the Lifestream, and he was just made up of lifestream. Take Bahamut Sin for example, when he got cut through he just faded and dissapeared, he didn't blow up.

3) No, that wasn't black granite, it was never stated as black granite, the only way it resembles black granite is if you zoom up to black granite with a microscope, if you view black granite from a distance it looks nothing like that.

4) Then show me Zant doing that outside of the Twilight Realm..

Terryc250

Originally posted by Voyeur
You say Ganondorf can have his Triforce of Power but can not be invulnerable or immortal, which are actually two traits he has because of the Triforce of Power. So it's sort of a contradiction.

rbcmNoWBedE
@ 00:00-1:50 and 5:16-End
Ganondorf is able to take the force and weight of an entire crumbling castle on his already 'weakened' state, summon flames and take 3 direct slashes to his face and a lunge, I assume penetrated his skull, from a the very sword that is his bane at its powered up state. And they didn't even kill him, they had to banish him to another dimension.

ELJaJi-1Q6s
This shows Ganondorf is able to disintegrate an entire being. Not to mention that he can take a weapon that is conjured out of the might of the sages, pull it out of himself, living, breathing, while that part of his body will for ever be banished out of existence. Unable to regenerate or even bleed from it, since that is what happens when matter or atoms and particles are taken out of the normal plane and brought to another dimension, he can't recover or even get a scar from that wound. He goes through out the rest of the game with it, unphased.

VDSPEfyrnwc
Ganondorf shows that he can become nothing more then pure, raw energy in the form of a sentient being that transcends the physical plane of existence. This scene also proves again as in from the Forest Temple boss in OoT that Ganondorf seems to have a knowledge of necromancy. In that he can summon spirits to fight under his cause, not to mention his raw power to bring down the entire (much larger) Hyrule Castle and also being able to conjur a steed to himself as well. And as for the form and power that Midna herself exerted is a magic that the Gods even banished from the grasp of anyone in the world of Hyrule, they deemed it to powerful and even with that, Ganondorf was able to trounce it.
Fused Shadow Video It talks about it in that clip.

Bx0Yfg6EasQ
this shows that Ganondorf also later has the ability to trap off and bring the power of the Twilight realm under his control at will. So he could merely trap Vincent in to something of this effect, seeing as Vincent does not have the Master Sword to ward off additional magintude from Ganondorf's abilities. Ganondorf can also posess people who are not protected by greater magics that cut off his own, e.g. Puppet Zelda with out her Triforce of Wisdom in TP.

He survived the top of his castle falling on him, Vincent can dish out faaar more power then that.

He didn't disintegrate anything even close to Vincents level or even a human being, for all we know when those things die, they fade out. Vincent can deal out faar more damage then just being stabbed.

I'm not going to watch all of those videos unless you give me a time frame.

XanatosForever

Originally posted by Terryc250
A cinematic effect? Uhh, those ripples are real.
erm

You mean that blue shock wave that traverses the sky of the planet? The one that looks nothing like blue ocean waves swarming and brown solid crust shuddering under a massive impact?

Admittedly, I got a little snarky there, so I'll stop. My argument still stands, though, and I still believe the shaking camera was a simple cinematic effect. Or who knows, maybe the shaking camera was from a shock wave of Omega's defeat? Though that would have be one fast as hell wave.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Nor do we even know what happened to the planet afterwards because thats the end of the game.
Considering that Omega was clearly shown being destroyed above the world's surface, I would estimate that, at best, the air temperature directly above Midgar reached astoundingly high degrees, which could have harmed the people below. Like you said, though, we can't really know since it's the end of the game.

Originally posted by Terryc250
It took out Omega WEAPON who almost dwarfs Midgar

This is where we're in agreement. Any of the Weapons are unbelievably powerful, and to take one down single-handedly definitely shows great power. Not power of planet-scale threat, but still great power nonetheless

Originally posted by Terryc250
http://www.ffcompendium.com/chara/7doc-omega-o.jpg

The size of midgar is so big that it can be seen clearly from outer space looking down on the planet

Not unlike some of the major cities in the United States. Maybe our sky scrapers don't have as great a magnitude, but we're certainly visible from the black. So that's...not really all that impressive to me. erm

Great picture, by the way.

ThunderGodEneru

Originally posted by Terryc250
1) We don't even know what damage it could've caused because the game ends right there

Either way if Omega couldn't take it, Ganon wouldn't take it either.

2) No.. it's not fuel, gas or even really energy, Omega's purpose was to transport the Lifestream, and he was just made up of lifestream. Take Bahamut Sin for example, when he got cut through he just faded and dissapeared, he didn't blow up.

3) No, that wasn't black granite, it was never stated as black granite, the only way it resembles black granite is if you zoom up to black granite with a microscope, if you view black granite from a distance it looks nothing like that.

4) Then show me Zant doing that outside of the Twilight Realm.. 1. Do you pride yourself on bullshit?

jyqGQmgws48

We clearly see Cloud and friends were perfectly fine, and they were at ground zero. And Omega was weakened when he was hit by hit, not to mention Ganon>Omega.

2. The Lifestream is energy, and we can clearly see it is full of energy when Vincent goes through it, and it is only when he hits its core as we plainly see that it explodes.

3. This is black granite.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd6/mikeem310/graphics/granitebackgroundblack.jpg

Looks pretty similar to what Link threw ey? No other rock I am aware of looks like what Link threw.

Oh, and the Golden Gauntlets are stated in the description to give the wielder the strength to lift a mountain I believe.

4. ?

They can merge regions with the Twilight realm, which has that effect.

Have you ever played Twilight Princess?

ScreamPaste

Lol, it's so relaxing to sit back and just let TGE and Voy win this without having to do much. I checked, it pretty much -has- to be black granite. TGE checked, and he agrees,and as far as I can tell TGE thinks I'm bearshit. laughing

But yeah, Ganon has shown the ability to overcome extreme sources of power and simply turn their holders into puppets, including pieces of the triforce itself, Vincent gets puppeted, possessed, whatever you wanna call it.

ScreamPaste

.. oops wtf. o_o /edit

Terryc250

Originally posted by XanatosForever
erm

You mean that blue shock wave that traverses the sky of the planet? The one that looks nothing like blue ocean waves swarming and brown solid crust shuddering under a massive impact?

Admittedly, I got a little snarky there, so I'll stop. My argument still stands, though, and I still believe the shaking camera was a simple cinematic effect. Or who knows, maybe the shaking camera was from a shock wave of Omega's defeat? Though that would have be one fast as hell wave

Considering that Omega was clearly shown being destroyed above the world's surface, I would estimate that, at best, the air temperature directly above Midgar reached astoundingly high degrees, which could have harmed the people below. Like you said, though, we can't really know since it's the end of the game.
Above? Watch the video again, Chaos ripped right THROUGH Omega, you can see Chaos flying through Omega as you see lifestream and him reaching the end of it at the ground. Camera's zooms out and it shows ripples sent down the planet because of the power.

Omega Weapon IS a planet-scale threat, its sole purpose is the wipe out the entire planet, so that it all returns to the lifestream, then absorbs it all flying to a different planet.

Umm Midgar is far far faaar bigger then any city on Earth.

XanatosForever

Originally posted by Terryc250
Above? Watch the video again, Chaos ripped right THROUGH Omega, you can see Chaos flying through Omega as you see lifestream and him reaching the end of it at the ground. Camera's zooms out and it shows ripples sent down the planet because of the power.

Maybe I missed something. I'll watch it again to make sure, though I already viewed it at least three times. From what I've seen so far, nothing convinces me that Chaos displayed the planet quaking feat you insist on.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Omega Weapon IS a planet-scale threat, its sole purpose is the wipe out the entire planet, so that it all returns to the lifestream, then absorbs it all flying to a different planet.

I'll concede this because I don't have nearly as much experience with the FF7 universe.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Umm Midgar is far far faaar bigger then any city on Earth.

And yet some of our cities are still visible from on a space station and the like. Would you mind giving me the size of the city (how many miles across, population, etc.) so I can better debate this point? I feel at odds when I don't know exactly what I'm supposed to be arguing against.

Terryc250

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. Do you pride yourself on bullshit?

jyqGQmgws48

We clearly see Cloud and friends were perfectly fine, and they were at ground zero. And Omega was weakened when he was hit by hit, not to mention Ganon>Omega.
We don't see Cloud and friends being exactly where Chaos struck, they all viewed from a distance

http://www.ffwa.org/ff7/images/script-shots/111.jpg
http://www.ffwa.org/ff7/images/script-shots/112.jpg

You can't deny that the power sent ripples down the entire planet, it's right infront of you.

And no Ganon is not > Omega weapon. What can Ganon do to even get passed his barrier? Omega weapon has the power to wipe out everything on the planet turning it into a baron wasteland, survive the vacuums of space. Just Omega stepping on him would be like a city ontop of him.

Lifestream is a SOURCE of energy, just as its a source of life, and magic. It doesn't explode, it never has, it's not flamable, it has no reason to explode. If it was an "explosion", Cloud and friends would be dead.

Once again that picture posted is a ZOOMED UP picture, viewing black granite at the same distance as the zelda picture they would look absolutely NOTHING like eachother

It has to land anyway, and unlike the people Zant used it on, Chaos wouldn't be standing there doing absolutely nothing, since well he can move faster then the eye can see.

Phanteros

ganon is > omega because the creator said that seph is the superior and that means Ganon> sephiroth(base on feats).... see how i use fanboy quotes against them.

ganon was shown merging dimensions and such that will make whatever sephiroth done look like a joke. and since seph is surperrior to omega and a person that ganon will cream there is no point in this thread.

overall GANON>>>>>> all of final fantasy 7

Burning thought

The only way Sephiorth is>Omega is because of the negative lifestream, obviously in a real battle without it, Sephiroth would likely end up destroyed, thing with the lifestream is that its super effective against the beings in FF, its likely that if used against beings not of FF, it would not be nearly as effecitve.

Voyeur

Until Terry educates himself on the opponents he wants to face, these debates are null and void. I don't feel like running around in circles all day with a person who will not watch simple videos to learn the low down on what is. I mean, we're sitting at a computer wasting time, might as well kill it. I did state time frames btw, the other videos that I did not means you must watch all of it. Except the last one, where Ganondorf just shows right off the bat of the match he can enclose things in twilight realm.

SOCKS?
Final judgment! We're not socks. We are all different people. have & share different views on things. And I met them through Super Smash Bros. Xat and was told about this and just started having fun.

Voyeur
http://allisbrawl.com/profile/Voyeur.ai
http://www.myspace.com/v0yeur
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=218458

ScreamPaste
http://allisbrawl.com/profile/ShinTwistScreamPaste.ai

XanatosForever
http://allisbrawl.com/profile/Xanatos.ai

Cyner
http://allisbrawl.com/profile/Cyner.ai

Lootic
http://allisbrawl.com/profile/lootic.ai

and CosmicComet is some random guy I guess on here who isn't a Smasher.

So there you have it, stop using such a petty thing like calling ScreamPaste a sock by using proxies or anything else to try and gain some edge in arguments that we're winning. If our facts and posts are to hard for you to debunk and counter, then that means Link must win, right? Is it that hard to see there are separate people debating in his favor now and you can't take the bum rush of intelligent, scientific posts? Well to bad. Deal! And not just Link but anyone I or the others may be debating for. We have posted in other threads -.-

Phanteros

Originally posted by Burning thought
The only way Sephiorth is>Omega is because of the negative lifestream, obviously in a real battle without it, Sephiroth would likely end up destroyed, thing with the lifestream is that its super effective against the beings in FF, its likely that if used against beings not of FF, it would not be nearly as effecitve. well that's because the beings of ff VII are connected to the life stream so it makes since why its so effective on them and not beings from other universe.

Voyeur

Originally posted by Phanteros
well that's because the beings of ff VII are connected to the life stream so it makes since why its so effective on them and not beings from other universe.
Awesome. So the lifestream is restricted to the life and spirit energy of Final Fantasy Seven characters, well then that is very nice to know. It wouldn't hold an effect over beings such as Ganondorf. Who can already rip through dimensions and avoid the laws of other things that will no longer apply to him.

Burning thought

ThunderGodEneru

Originally posted by Terryc250
We don't see Cloud and friends being exactly where Chaos struck, they all viewed from a distance

http://www.ffwa.org/ff7/images/script-shots/111.jpg
http://www.ffwa.org/ff7/images/script-shots/112.jpg

You can't deny that the power sent ripples down the entire planet, it's right infront of you.

And no Ganon is not > Omega weapon. What can Ganon do to even get passed his barrier? Omega weapon has the power to wipe out everything on the planet turning it into a baron wasteland, survive the vacuums of space. Just Omega stepping on him would be like a city ontop of him.

Lifestream is a SOURCE of energy, just as its a source of life, and magic. It doesn't explode, it never has, it's not flamable, it has no reason to explode. If it was an "explosion", Cloud and friends would be dead.

Once again that picture posted is a ZOOMED UP picture, viewing black granite at the same distance as the zelda picture they would look absolutely NOTHING like eachother

It has to land anyway, and unlike the people Zant used it on, Chaos wouldn't be standing there doing absolutely nothing, since well he can move faster then the eye can see. 1. They were in Midgar when Omega flew up. Omega flew directly up from Midgar. That flash of light, which is all it was, engulfed the planet.

How's about you stfu and prove that little light show was anything other than a lightshow?

By teleporting on the other side, or using the power he used to warp the entire Sacred Realm(a planet) maybe?

2. Oh so you admit it was just a light-show?

3. Then post your proof of this claim.

4. It affects an entire region or city in an instant. And the effect is instant. Vincent is not that fast.

Terryc250

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. They were in Midgar when Omega flew up. Omega flew directly up from Midgar. That flash of light, which is all it was, engulfed the planet.

How's about you stfu and prove that little light show was anything other than a lightshow?
The light and the ripples down the planet are 2 different things. The ripples sent down the planet is due to the impact of Chaos. (Omega does NOT explode). The "light" had no destruction, but clearly the power of Chaos which sent ripples down the planet did, since it killed Omega who basically dwarfs a metropolis city.

Actually show me these abilities?

Again the light, and the ripples are 2 different things.

Ok, here's black granite viewed from not nearly as far as the one in the zelda picture
http://www.cinajus.com/images/stoneblock/Black-Granite-StoneBlock-Side-View.jpg

Now imagine that it was even further zoomed out as the picture of Link, and then imagine if the room was dark. Clearly they would look nothing alike. Far far not enough proof to claim Link lifted Black Granite.

Hell you can zoom up to many types of stones and find that pattern, its so common.

As for the actual Link picture, I googled some random LOW DENSITY stone called Asbestos, and it is FAR more similar then black granite

http://epa.gov/region09/toxic/noa/asbestosimg4.jpg

Show me him instantly doing it on an entire village.

Voyeur

Originally posted by Voyeur

And I have a quote here from my official Nintendo Player Guide. (not licensed by, but official)
"Gold Gauntlets, which only lift giant granite pillars." -ONPG

I hope that helps clear up and put an end to useless bickering of the strength feat proven many times over of what Link throws. As in Rock, As in volume, height, mass, and so on. I'm sorry, but with those items Link is very strong, 1000+ tons.

EDIT: I know you're going to ***** about the official guide quote so when I have time I'll try to get scans.

and once again Terry, that isn't the point of the feat of strength. it can be ANY TYPE OF ROCK the fact that the pillar is a certain volume, weight, mass, density. THOSE are the things that matter to the math, to even get those numbers.

Simple Jr Highschool Math. And this is about Ganondorf vs Vincent, not Link, so you're going off track and derailing from the subject.

And also running something into the ground, going in circles and so forth. Because you're having a hard time being shown how powerful Link is with those gauntlets. It's granite hon. Deal <3

Burning thought

I think Terry is just grasping for anything to argue with, its obviously quite irrelvent what stone it is, the size of the thing alone makes it impressive enough for a feat.

ScreamPaste

Voyeur has the Official Nintendo Guide for OoT, apparently it uses the word granite, HAH. I'm gonna go try to find a scan. :]

ThunderGodEneru

I'll wait til you do because I'm too lazy to post it myself.

ScreamPaste

I can't find a scan of the entire guide anywhere ._. Maybe Voy can scan his later, BUT, I did notice something, look at Terry's pic of the granite blocks.

http://www.cinajus.com/images/stoneblock/Black-Granite-StoneBlock-Side-View.jpg

Note the external texture/pattern looks ALOT like the granite pillar in OoT? In a dark room they'd be near identical, o: If the granite was a darker colour, like say, black granite... Heeeheee.

I'll keep looking for the scans, but I still want the Seph vs Ganon thread.

Ganon>FF7

Terryc250

No in a dark room you wouldnt even beable to see the texture/patterns.

Even looking from this distance everything just looks like specs/dots, zoomed even further out, and in a dark room you wouldn't make out any pattern at all.

And incorrect, Ganon is not > FF7.

Ganon never fought anyone near as powerful, fast as Chaos Vincent

Voyeur

Originally posted by Terryc250

Ganon never fought anyone near as powerful, fast as Chaos Vincent

thats game play, thats game mechanics. So, null and void.

ScreamPaste

This thread is kind of one sided in Ganon's favour, lol.

And Terry will dispute this forever, lol. Voy, get a scan, plx.

Voyeur

when I get a scanner or some thing but for the time being, why is a Link strength feat even being argued in a Ganon vs vincent thread?

any who.
Originally posted by Terryc250
LoZ Ganon vs Chaos Vincent

Ganon gets his triforce, but it doesn't grant him invulnerability/immortality.

Ganon gets the Triforce and it can not grant him invulnerability or immortality, no where did it say Ganon can not use the Triforce to wish Vincent out of existence.

And you said Triforce, not even Triforce of power.

Terryc250

I mean the triforce that he normally has in his possession which is the triforce of power..

Voyeur

Originally posted by Terryc250
I mean the triforce that he normally has in his possession which is the triforce of power.. learn 2 specific.

in fact, learn about the Legend of Zelda.
http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Zeldapedia

Terryc250

Who cares. It's not like i said "the" triforce, I said HIS triforce, which is the one that is always in his possesion.

Voyeur

actually Ganon has the full and entire Triforce in a Link to the past. So, nah, see you gotta be specific. Triforce of Power and his Triforce are different things. Because ganon even in OoT had possession to be in the sacred realm and have the whole Triforce.

you can actually use things I said in another thread to debunk this.

so I'll help you out, lol. Ganondorf/Ganon can not use the Triforce to wish for things because he is not pure of heart. Even in ALtTP him coming in contact with it turned Hyrule into a wicked realm and world, he didn't actually wish for that to happen. It happened due to result of his wicked heart coming in contact with it. In the game I think things are lost in translation to say he wished for it, even the little tree guy tells you so, but meh. It's a contradiction with other Triforce lore.