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Favorite Game:
Best Story:
Best Music:
Best Hero:
Best Heroine:
Best Villain:
Best Gameplay:

Simple enough categories. I'm curious to see some of the answers.

Game: FFVI
Story: FFX
Music: FFVI
Hero: Vivi
Heroine: Tifa
Villain: Kefka
Gameplay: FFX

Favorite Game: V
Best Story: VI
Best Music: X
Best Hero: Cecil
Best Heroine: Terra
Best Villain: ExDeath
Best Gameplay: X

Also

Best World: Ivalice
Best Class: Mime
Best Race: Yukes
Best Moogles: FFVI

Favorite Game: FFVII/VIII pretty much tied
Best Story: FFX
Best Music: Undecided.
Best Hero: Squall Leonhart(Zack Fair if spinoffs are allowed)
Best Heroine: Yuna
Best Villain: Kuja
Best Gameplay: FFX

Favorite Game: FF VII
Best Story: FF X
Best Music: FF VII
Best Hero: Cloud
Best Heroine: Fran
Best Villain: Sephiroth
Best Gameplay: FF X

I don't think I'm even going to bother because it'd be completely and utterly predictable for me...

Originally posted by Peach
I don't think I'm even going to bother because it'd be completely and utterly predictable for me...
I'll help. All of Peach's answers would relate to FF X.

My favorites in games are subject to change somewhat often, but as of now its:

Favorite Game: VI or VII
Best Story: VI
Best Music: VII or VIII
Best Hero: Cloud
Best Heroine: Celes
Best Villain: Sephiroth
Best Gameplay: VII

I cried when Aeris died. Then didn't play for months.

...and now I'm thinking about that and don't feel like answering this thread.

cry

I don't want to prejudice anything but anyone who nominates VIII for best story gets a permanent ban.

Hey now.

It would be acceptable if said person had only played FFVIII and FFXII.

No it wouldn't. Someone only playing VIII and XII is, in itself, unacceptable.

Originally posted by BackFire
Hey now.

It would be acceptable if said person had only played FFVIII and FFXII.

Nah, I'd disagree there. At least FFXII's plot made sense (well, as much sense as an FF game ever does) and didn't have a completely shoe-horned in romance subplot that did not fit at all with the characters...

XII had the most forgettable plot of any FF game I've played. At least in VIII some things happened that stand out in my mind, XII is just a mishmash of bad dialogue, lousy characters, and a story that while easy to grasp, was just simple and boring and wholly uneventful.

It's funny you mention FFVIII's romance subplot, I remember that being the main selling point of the game, it was presented as the heart of the game, based on 'the theme of love', but in the end it felt forced and awkward.

I'll agree with what Kaliero said, though.

Favorite Game: FF7

Best Story: FF7

Best Music: FF7

Best Hero: Zack, he crushed the competition, IMO.

Best Heroine: Agrias Oaks. She is SOOOOO much better than all the others. I actually like her.

Best Villain: Sephiroth

Best Gameplay: FF8

Favorite Game: VI
Best Story: X
Best Music: III/VI
Best Hero: Vivi
Best Heroine: Terra
Best Villain: Kefka/Cefka
Best Gameplay: VI

Seriously?

FFVIII could not possibly get the gameplay award from me due to the obviously rubbish Draw system (which Square then dropped as quickly as possible and never used anyhting similar again) but much of its combat system was perfectly viable (even though I don't like mix and match characters), so it's not as ludicrous to nominate it for gameplay as it is for story.

As I am sure you will agree, Peach, its combat was better paced than IX's.

The draw system was extraordinarily tedious. And the last battle made it even stupider.

I think any FF had better-paced battle than IX, though.

IX owned! Vivi rules.

Slow battles though, they're slow.

Originally posted by Peach
Seriously? Absolutely...

Favorite Game: FFX
Best Story: FFX
Best Music: FFX
Best Hero: Squall
Best Heroine: Terra
Best Villain: Sephiroth
Best Gameplay: FFX (Love the sphere grid)

.

Favorite Game: Tactics
Best Story: Tactics
Best Music: VII I guess
Best Hero: Zidane
Best Heroine: Tifa and Yuna
Best Villain: Hm. Kuja and Seymour.
Best Gameplay: VIII. Yeah, bite me.

Spinoffs are allowed?

I think so. Anyways, here's mine:

Favorite Game: VI
Best Story: X
Best Music: X
Best Hero: Zack
Best Heroine: Garnet
Best Villain: Sephiroth
Best Gameplay: Crisis Core

Favorite Game: FFX
Best Story: FFX
Best Music: FFX
Best Hero: Cloud/Tidus/Your character in FFXI
Best Heroine: Ashe
Best Villain: Sephiroth and seymour
Best Gameplay: FFXII ,FFX and FFXI

EDIT

I mentioned FFXI because i actually played the game for a long time(got samurai to 75) but then of course i had to quit as i have greater priorities in life.

Favorite Game: FF VII (followed closely by IX)
Best Story: FF VII
Best Music: FF VII
Best Hero: Zidane
Best Heroine: Aerith
Best Villain: Sephiroth
Best Gameplay: FF XII

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Good Lord!

(close to speechless)

Hah, seconding this...

Originally posted by DorianYates
Favorite Game: FFX
Best Story: FFX
Best Music: FFX
Best Hero: Cloud/Tidus/Your character in FFXI
Best Heroine: Ashe
Best Villain: Sephiroth and seymour
Best Gameplay: FFXII ,FFX and FFXI

EDIT

I mentioned FFXI because i actually played the game for a long time(got samurai to 75) but then of course i had to quit as i have greater priorities in life.

FFXI is terrible.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Good Lord!

(close to speechless) He's better than Tidus or Cloud.

That's true...

Meh. I add Ramza Beoulve to the Best Hero category.

Ramza was cool, kinda androgynous tho, imo.

Originally posted by Peach
Hah, seconding this...



FFXI is terrible. Its terrible because you don't know the full aspects of the game and barely even know the tip of the tip of the iceberg .


To really enjoy FFXI, it takes a pretty long time and i can't say i blame you for not liking it.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
He's better than Tidus or Cloud.

No. No he's not.

Originally posted by DorianYates
Its terrible because you don't know the full aspects of the game and barely even know the tip of the tip of the iceberg .


To really enjoy FFXI, it takes a pretty long time and i can't say i blame you for not liking it.

It's a game that's flawed from the very start. It's difficult to get into a game when it takes a week to go up five levels. And if there's an actual plot to that game, I'm not aware of it. Games should grab you from the start. If it takes a long time to get into a game, then there's a problem with the game.

Also, might want to watch the attitude there. It's not called for.

Originally posted by Peach
No. No he's not. Yes, yes he is.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Yes, yes he is.

Squall is just annoying, obnoxious, and whiny, and he has absolutely no excuse for it. By the end of the game, I thought I was going to punch my TV if I saw "...whatever." one more time.

Tidus is annoying and whiny, yes, but at least there is a very good reason for it, and he actually shows development over the course of the game. It makes sense. He's annoying, but it works.

Originally posted by Peach
Squall is just annoying, obnoxious, and whiny, and he has absolutely no excuse for it. By the end of the game, I thought I was going to punch my TV if I saw "...whatever." one more time.

Tidus is annoying and whiny, yes, but at least there is a very good reason for it, and he actually shows development over the course of the game. It makes sense. He's annoying, but it works. ...A very good reason?

Tidus b!tches and moans about his low to mild daddy issues and cries like a fvcking little girl about them, Jecht stole his mom's attention? Big fvcking WHOOPTY DOO! Who gives a flying shit if mommy did not whip her t!t out so you can supple it whenever daddy was around, and that his dad was kind of a dick who teased him for crying, the fact that he actually carried over this bitter emo resentment for so long proves he is pathetic.

You have claimed Squall never showed any development in the game. There is no other way to say this other than you're wrong, and I am not speaking of this particular claim as an opinion, it is a FACT.

Squall did not have a reason? His introverted nature is an obvious trait he gained from past abandonment, or at least what he perceived as it. He grew up in an orphanage, bullied by Seifer, cause you know, he's a dick, and his only joy was Ellone, who he saw as his big sister, until she left, he was never told why, and assumed she abandoned him.

Squall is not "whiny," he is introverted and brooding, sure, but he is not a crybaby whining b!tch like Tidus was. And his problems make Tidus' slight daddy issues look like shit.

And Squall continually throughout the game grew increasingly less introverted, he began talking more, he began to open up, and by the end of the game he bore his heart to Rinoa and smiled for what was the first time. THAT is development.

Don't get me wrong, FFX is a superior game to FFVIII by a long-shot, mostly because the second half of the game was shit due to a rushed and scrambled plot, but in terms of character, Squall crushes Tidus.

EDIT: And Cloud is worse than both combined.

Originally posted by Peach



It's a game that's flawed from the very start. It's difficult to get into a game when it takes a week to go up five levels. And if there's an actual plot to that game, I'm not aware of it. Games should grab you from the start. If it takes a long time to get into a game, then there's a problem with the game.
A week to go up five levels? It only took me less than an hour.

And its an MMORPG, the plots kicks in when you actually do something with NPC's rather than grinding and believe me, i actually completed most of the storyline missions in FFXI and the expansion sets storylines are close to being epic.

This alone just shows that you played extremely little of the game and is already coming up with judgement riddled with bias.
Originally posted by Peach

Also, might want to watch the attitude there. It's not called for. What attitude? The fact that i disagreed with you is uncalled for?
I merely typed the fact that you have yet to seriously even finish the tip of the iceberg and that yet you are already coming up with assertions that this game is terrible.

If you think it is terrible then fine, its your personal opinion and i respect that but don't try to convince me that the game is just because i disagree with you and don't even attempt to call me out because im not showing attitude, im not breaking the rules, respect my opinions and i'll respect yours.

Booyaka!
You got SERVED!

Don't make unhelpful posts like that, occult.


Squall is by far the least identifiable main character and displays most strongly off-putting emo/angst traits throughout the game- sorry, but Tidus and Cloud do not even begin to compare. He is an absolutely horrendous abortive mess of a main character in probably the lwast convincing video game romance I've ever seen.

Opinions are opinions, but nominating and/or liking Squall simply shows an appalling lack of taste in characterisation and highlights a sorry problem where people can get away with that sort fo crap without beeling called otu on it (luckily, it seems far more people agree with me than do not). Go check out my VIII review for more detail as I say there all that needs to be said. This remains an area I have an extremely strong viewpoint about.

Squall didn't **** Quistis, for that alone he fails and sucks on levels beyond mere human comprehension. He was also a flat boring undeveloped character, and he still didn't **** Quistis. Squall's lousiness was just one of many problems with the game, however. The rest of the cast wasn't much better.

FFXI wasn't bad. It's barely comparable to other FF games and probably shouldn't have had a numeric behind it and even less should be compared to the other games in the series, but it was a decent MMO that I was into for some time.

I believe I also stressed the 'WHY NOT QUISITIS!!?' point in my review.

I've rcently been watching a funny (and extremely elongated) video review of FFVIII, which points out Sewifer must be gay. Why? because he escapes the Garden's 'Disciplinary rooms', and as the reviewer points out, any heterosexual stuck in a disciplinary room with Quisits is going to stay.

As it is, by the end of the game she has lost all of her authority and personality and is just cheerleading Squall on. Cut that out, girl- if you had been a half decent teacher you would have stopped Squall being such a mopey emo prick in the first place.

Introverted people make bad action game characters. Tidus and Cloud might also be whiny but they were outgoing and exuberant (and with more believable romance plots- and they weren't all that, so that is a comment on how godawful VIII's romance was). Squall has the worst of all worlds- broody, emotional, miserable, moany and boring on-screen. Just like Harry Potter in book 5, almost no-one liked him and they've never tried anything liker him again.

Squall's awesome. He's actually the only FF protagonist that i've connected with and respected. Personally I like emo people like him though, becuase it's realistically how people should be in that situation. Tidus? Laughs while slicing people and things up with his sword. Clearly has problems.

Zidane's cool though.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Introverted people make bad action game characters
What's wrong with introverted people?
It seems this issue far extends that of the realm of video games. It seems you dislike 'introverted people' in general.
What have they ever done to you? Maybe it's you who has a problem.

Me? I could care less about the attitude of the protagonist.
But I would do well with a quiet-type yet manly hero than with a whiny, girly-looking hero(ine).

Now you are just babbling nonsense, occult. Trying to make out that it is some real life personality thing is akin to flaming- cut that out as well or you will be warned.

Introverted people have never made good action heroes, it is a basic axiom of drama. For a start, they are just not interesting on-screen- in a book, you can get away with it, but in anything visual then exuberance pays dividends, doubly so with a lead. Secondly, Squall's introversion combind with angst and decidedly unfriendly attitude in general is simply alienating to the majority of players. Like I say, it is like the Potter book 5 phenomenon- MASSIVE criticism over how unlikeable Harry had become for much the same reasons. Squall, meanwhile, is not even vaguely manly, either in looks or personality.

Meanwhile, trying to bring 'realism' of personality into a. any action genre and b. a Final Fantasy game is a mistake. Most of Tidus' issues in FFX are down to culture shock at his sudden transportation (he's a sports star after all, where Squall is meant to be a trained special ops guy), but at least he still has confidence.

Originally posted by BackFire


FFXI wasn't bad. It's barely comparable to other FF games and probably shouldn't have had a numeric behind it and even less should be compared to the other games in the series, but it was a decent MMO that I was into for some time. Hmm just out of curiosity... What job/race/level were you in ffxi and how far were you in the game?

3 words for you: The. Goddamn. Batman.

http://wiw.org/~jess/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/lol5.jpg

You fail.

Oh great, compare someome COMPLETELY different- Bruce Wayne is a bon viveur socialite for God's sake! Batman may be ansgty but he is not even REMOTELY introverted. He's actively the opposite, he's expressing his 'dark' side constantly.

Advice- think things through

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
...A very good reason?

Tidus b!tches and moans about his low to mild daddy issues and cries like a fvcking little girl about them, Jecht stole his mom's attention? Big fvcking WHOOPTY DOO! Who gives a flying shit if mommy did not whip her t!t out so you can supple it whenever daddy was around, and that his dad was kind of a dick who teased him for crying, the fact that he actually carried over this bitter emo resentment for so long proves he is pathetic.

You have claimed Squall never showed any development in the game. There is no other way to say this other than you're wrong, and I am not speaking of this particular claim as an opinion, it is a FACT.

Squall did not have a reason? His introverted nature is an obvious trait he gained from past abandonment, or at least what he perceived as it. He grew up in an orphanage, bullied by Seifer, cause you know, he's a dick, and his only joy was Ellone, who he saw as his big sister, until she left, he was never told why, and assumed she abandoned him.

Squall is not "whiny," he is introverted and brooding, sure, but he is not a crybaby whining b!tch like Tidus was. And his problems make Tidus' slight daddy issues look like shit.

And Squall continually throughout the game grew increasingly less introverted, he began talking more, he began to open up, and by the end of the game he bore his heart to Rinoa and smiled for what was the first time. THAT is development.

Don't get me wrong, FFX is a superior game to FFVIII by a long-shot, mostly because the second half of the game was shit due to a rushed and scrambled plot, but in terms of character, Squall crushes Tidus.

EDIT: And Cloud is worse than both combined.

I <3 u.

Originally posted by DorianYates
Hmm just out of curiosity... What job/race/level were you in ffxi and how far were you in the game?

Just a Red Mage to 35. Then started messing around with the new classes. Got a Dark Knight to like 18. I would have gotten further but I got into the WoW beta and that pretty much took over.

Pfftt, he is so introverted.

Bruce Wayne isn't the real person, it's just a cover. The real person is the emo dressed in black leather, leering in the shadows, saying 2 words of dialogue and then throwing a hissy fit all over the joker's face. If the Batman isn't introverted, no-one is. He's about as brooding as it comes.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
...A very good reason?

Tidus b!tches and moans about his low to mild daddy issues and cries like a fvcking little girl about them, Jecht stole his mom's attention? Big fvcking WHOOPTY DOO! Who gives a flying shit if mommy did not whip her t!t out so you can supple it whenever daddy was around, and that his dad was kind of a dick who teased him for crying, the fact that he actually carried over this bitter emo resentment for so long proves he is pathetic.

You have claimed Squall never showed any development in the game. There is no other way to say this other than you're wrong, and I am not speaking of this particular claim as an opinion, it is a FACT.

Squall did not have a reason? His introverted nature is an obvious trait he gained from past abandonment, or at least what he perceived as it. He grew up in an orphanage, bullied by Seifer, cause you know, he's a dick, and his only joy was Ellone, who he saw as his big sister, until she left, he was never told why, and assumed she abandoned him.

Squall is not "whiny," he is introverted and brooding, sure, but he is not a crybaby whining b!tch like Tidus was. And his problems make Tidus' slight daddy issues look like shit.

And Squall continually throughout the game grew increasingly less introverted, he began talking more, he began to open up, and by the end of the game he bore his heart to Rinoa and smiled for what was the first time. THAT is development.

Don't get me wrong, FFX is a superior game to FFVIII by a long-shot, mostly because the second half of the game was shit due to a rushed and scrambled plot, but in terms of character, Squall crushes Tidus.

EDIT: And Cloud is worse than both combined.

Man, you're so off it's nearly laughable.

Okay, so Squall was orphaned and was abandoned in the past. That's great. So was Tidus. He already had issues with the fact that Jecht was a self-absorbed ass. Who then vanished. And then his mom dies. If Squall's allowed to be whiny because he was orphaned, then why does Tidus, having a similar background, have less of an excuse?

Then let's get into the whole Sin attack. You know, I'd say that being swept into another world entirely, where you don't know anyone or anything and your home is destroyed, is certainly more of a reason to be aggravating than anything that Squall deals with in the game. Yes, he's annoying and complains about stuff. But most of the annoyingness is due to sheer ignorance of the situation he's been dumped into. It's not something he could exactly help.

Oh, and let's not forget discovering that his dad is the main enemy. That's a bit of a blow. Or discovering exactly what happens to a Summoner that manages to defeat Sin. Or discovering that he isn't actually real. And yet he still manages to become a less annoying and more selfless person.

I'm no fan of Tidus, I'll make that clear. But I have to severely wonder about anyone who thinks that Squall's a superior character.



Well, I was playing a Black Mage. My friends that were playing all did melee classes. I think it was just the class I chose. However, that's still a big problem, and "too much damn grind" isn't exactly an uncommon complaint with that game.

And funny. One of the games I play the most right now is an MMO. It starts you out with the plot immediately. THAT is how a game should be.

A week was enough of that game. Not worth paying for, not at all.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Pfftt, he is so introverted.

Bruce Wayne isn't the real person, it's just a cover. The real person is the emo dressed in black leather, leering in the shadows, saying 2 words of dialogue and then throwing a hissy fit all over the joker's face. If the Batman isn't introverted, no-one is. He's about as brooding as it comes.

I think you need to re-assess your understanding of the term 'introverted'. Batman it ain't, not by an exceptiobnally long shot. It most definitely is not a synonym for 'brooding'.

Try again.

'Introversion is "the state of or tendency toward being wholly or predominantly concerned with and interested in one's own mental life".'



Rorschach.
Punisher.
Squall.
Link.
Cloud.
Master Chief.
Leon (movie)
Balian (Kindom of Heaven)
Aragorn.
Jason Bourne.
Russel Crow from Gladiator.
Auron.
Loads of Villians (Vader, Sephiroth etc)
Rambo?
Craig's Bond?
Batman.

Some may not be introvert's, but a good number are.

Originally posted by Peach
Man, you're so off it's nearly laughable.

Okay, so Squall was orphaned and was abandoned in the past. That's great. So was Tidus. He already had issues with the fact that Jecht was a self-absorbed ass. Who then vanished. And then his mom dies. If Squall's allowed to be whiny because he was orphaned, then why does Tidus, having a similar background, have less of an excuse?

Then let's get into the whole Sin attack. You know, I'd say that being swept into another world entirely, where you don't know anyone or anything and your home is destroyed, is certainly more of a reason to be aggravating than anything that Squall deals with in the game. Yes, he's annoying and complains about stuff. But most of the annoyingness is due to sheer ignorance of the situation he's been dumped into. It's not something he could exactly help.

Oh, and let's not forget discovering that his dad is the main enemy. That's a bit of a blow. Or discovering exactly what happens to a Summoner that manages to defeat Sin. Or discovering that he isn't actually real. And yet he still manages to become a less annoying and more selfless person.

I'm no fan of Tidus, I'll make that clear. But I have to severely wonder about anyone who thinks that Squall's a superior character. 1. That's funny, that is how I feel about the vast majority of your posts.

2. You would have a point. But you have one flaw. THAT IS NOT WHY TIDUS WAS A PERPETUAL WHINER. By his own admission, the reason for his emo-hate for his dad is because mommy didn't show him attention when daddy was around. Tidus is a selfish brat. Tidus cries and whines, Squall does not, he just keeps to himself, yet he's the whiny emo protagonist? Squall is not whiny, you do not know it's definition if you think he is, he is introverted, and something of a cold dick. Tidus was a whiny prick.

3. That's not why I find him annoying at all. Why would anyone dislike him just because he is ignorant of Spira? He just got there, and that is not why he is whiny, so that is irrelevant.

4. I know, character development. But in your bias, you somehow believe that Squall had none. Which is a factually un-true statement. I did not say that Tidus had no character development at all, you're the only person who made such a claim.

5. Because he is not a whiny crybaby?

EDIT: Batman is one of the most selfish, emo, pathetic, and overrated piece of shit characters there are.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Don't make unhelpful posts like that, occult.


Squall is by far the least identifiable main character and displays most strongly off-putting emo/angst traits throughout the game- sorry, but Tidus and Cloud do not even begin to compare. He is an absolutely horrendous abortive mess of a main character in probably the lwast convincing video game romance I've ever seen.

Opinions are opinions, but nominating and/or liking Squall simply shows an appalling lack of taste in characterisation and highlights a sorry problem where people can get away with that sort fo crap without beeling called otu on it (luckily, it seems far more people agree with me than do not). Go check out my VIII review for more detail as I say there all that needs to be said. This remains an area I have an extremely strong viewpoint about. 1. Cloud after supposedly getting over Aeris' death and accepting his companions spent the next 2-3 years moping about Aeris and alienated his companions.

Cloud is by far the worst.

But yeah the FFVIII romance did suck.

2. Right, because you are the one who sets the standard for bad taste correct?

Originally posted by Nephthys
'Introversion is "the state of or tendency toward being wholly or predominantly concerned with and interested in one's own mental life".'



Rorschach.
Punisher.
Squall.
Link.
Cloud.
Master Chief.
Leon (movie)
Balian (Kindom of Heaven)
Aragorn.
Jason Bourne.
Russel Crow from Gladiator.
Auron.
Loads of Villians (Vader, Sephiroth etc)
Rambo?
Craig's Bond?
Batman.

Some may not be introvert's, but a good number are.

Oh, so that's just a random list of people, some of who may be introverts, eh? How pointless.

Honestly, you are going nowhere here. Once more- Batman is not an introvert of any sort.

-

Thunder- I dunno if you are talking about post VII there, but I certainly see none of what you see in the game. And I am happy to bank on the respect I get around here for things like my review threads when it comes to statements on such things, yes.

It was in Advent Children, which is canon to the game.

So because of what some random internet people say about your review threads, your opinion>Most other people's?

Humorous.

Oh man. Teh Thundar Gawd is fired up!

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
It was in Advent Children, which is canon to the game.

So because of what some random internet people say about your review threads, your opinion>Most other people's?

Humorous.

'Canon to the game' is a nonsense statement. This is all about the games only, as is the argument- all about how Square constructec characters inside their games. So forget entirely about Advent Children.

And I'll simply put it like this- I am absolutely certain that in this matter that my opinion is worth more than yours, and certainly that it will be respected more by intelligent people here, yup. Just how it is.

I'd disagree with your second statement Ush, no offense.

That's ok, I don't regard your opinion on it as important.

Well that's good to know. Here I was being actually worried about what you of all people might think about my opinion. That's a load off.

Well if you don't care what I think there really wasn't much point you making a comment directed straight to me at all, was there? So I don't really believe that either; you wanted that comment to bug me.

Sorry, but the fact is that I do ghave a certain pull around here, and when I spend too long without making a review regulars here do start asking me for more, which doens't happen with anyone else. Call it 'random people' if you want, but the fact is it is the regular patrons here and around here that is what counts. So my opinion on things is certainly regarded more than that of random posters, and even more so as reagrds to posters who have a cetain negative/troublesome reputation. Which is not to say it is in any way universal or overriding but it IS a point of significance.

However, as in any case it is well known that those who like Squall are in the minority it is all faintly irrelevant anyway. I am just providing the reasons why he alienated people.

I didn't say I didn't care about what you think. I just said I wasn't worried about it. I'm not sitting in this chair frothing at the mouth and fiending over wither you're going to find my opinion acceptable or not.

And, perhaps those people who egg on your reviews are just idiots and what they say shouldn't influence anything? That's not what I'm stating as a fact, I'm just making an example, of why that's a fallacious line of thinking. "More people agree with me so I'm probably right", is a poor way of thinking. You know that.

It holds no significance at all unless this is a popularity contest.

Well if you want to call the forum regulars around here idiots (including the mods) then that is your business but I don't see it as a rational or sensible method of thinking.

If it is coming to a comparison of value of opinions, it's the only measure we've got. I also know from general posting here for many. many years that my opinion is well regarded with interest in many areas of the forums. The simple fact is that my opinions do carry more weight and significance than, for example, several of those disagreeing with me in this thread. Again- that's just how it is.

You can disagree if you want but you can think the Moon is made of cheese if you want as well; the evidence for my view is plain to see if you go look. That's my last word on this matter.

Squall being shitty doesn't really have to do with who has the more worthy opinion, it just has to do with him being a disaster of a main character, which is apparent to just about everyone who plays the damn game past disc 2.

He is a walking cliche, he's shown as being 'brooding' by standing quietly against a wall with his arms crossed looking down all the time, and not responding to people when they speak to him. That's the kind of thing you'd see portrayed in 6th grade fiction, not a full blown quality game.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well if you want to call the forum regulars around here idiots (including the mods) then that is your business but I don't see it as a rational or sensible method of thinking.

Read.




No it's not.



Irrelevant.



Irrelevant.



I accept your concession on the matter. Good on you to take the mans way out. That automatically makes you a better character than most.

Ha! That's simple spamming and trolling that you just did there, from your clearly nonsensical portraying of those very valid parts of it as 'irrelevant' to your passive-aggressive last line,. I'm sorry you are aggrieved that I have earned a certain respected reputation around here, but rather than trolling me your efforts would be better put towards earning one of your own.

Meanwhile- troll me like that again and you'll get a warning.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
'Canon to the game' is a nonsense statement. This is all about the games only, as is the argument- all about how Square constructec characters inside their games. So forget entirely about Advent Children.

And I'll simply put it like this- I am absolutely certain that in this matter that my opinion is worth more than yours, and certainly that it will be respected more by intelligent people here, yup. Just how it is. 1. Ignorant statement. Advent Children is part of his ACTUAL CHARACTER, so it is relevant, and if you disagree, you are simply wrong.

2. More intelligent people? What are you implying my good sir?

And fun fact, most of this forum, and the videogame forums, are idiots(And before you say I am bashing, I did not name a name on this forum, so no, you cannot say I am). So what they think about your reviews really has no meaning to me at all.

Don't get me wrong, Squall is by no means some sort of great character, better than Tidus and Cloud though? In my opinion yes.

Thunder- fact is this is the Video Game forum, this is a thread about the games only and the comparisons being made are purely about the games, not ANY form of spin-off material. Again, that is just how it is. If you want to say that Cloud in Advent Chilsren became mroe annoying, fine. But in a comparison between VII and VIII, what he was like in AC is of no relevance at all, and that's what we are talking about here. That's the rules of the game. Feel free to ask the mods about it. If you want to discuss AC related things, do it in the apprporiate forum area.

Take the implication any way you will. What I say above covers the rest. But I really wouldn't recommend mass labelling most the people that use this place idiots- that really isn't going to do you any good.

Okay, just to make it clear.

We're talking about video games here. No one gives a damn about Advent Children. I don't care how Cloud acted in that. We are talking solely about the games here. AC is irrelevant to this discussion, and no foot-stamping will change that.

Also, I'm not going to tolerate the insinuations that the long-time regulars of this forum are idiots. That IS flaming; I don't care if no names were named. It's not going to stand and it's not going to happen.

And I'm going to be very skeptical of someone's opinion if they believe that the only reason a character has issues is because of what said character said their problem is. That shows a severe lack of understanding about how people and their minds work - and don't try to argue that point with me. You'll fail, hard. Trust me.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Thunder- fact is this is the Video Game forum, this is a thread about the games only and the comparisons being made are purely about the games, not ANY form of spin-off material. Again, that is just how it is. If you want to say that Cloud in Advent Chilsren became mroe annoying, fine. But in a comparison between VII and VIII, what he was like in AC is of no relevance at all, and that's what we are talking about here. That's the rules of the game. Feel free to ask the mods about it. If tyou want to discuss AC related things, do it in the approriate forum area.

Take the implication any way you will. What I say above covers the rest. But I really wouldn't recommend mass labelling most the people that use this place idiots- that really isn't going to do you any good. 1. I am sorry sir, but that is something I refuse to accept. Cloud in AC and the game are the same person in storyline, so why should I consider them separate?

2. I couldn't care less about how anyone in this forum views me as, I've been told I am not a very nice guy, but I don't care about forum rep as much as some people.

1. Well, because the mod in here just defined the subject of the thread as so.

2. Well then I hope you don't care too much when you eventually get booted out of here for all the isuses you keep having with these people you don't care about (i.e. everyone), because we sure as heck don't want people like that around here. I'll be keeping a careful watch.

Originally posted by Peach
Okay, just to make it clear.

We're talking about video games here. No one gives a damn about Advent Children. I don't care how Cloud acted in that. We are talking solely about the games here. AC is irrelevant to this discussion, and no foot-stamping will change that.

Also, I'm not going to tolerate the insinuations that the long-time regulars of this forum are idiots. That IS flaming; I don't care if no names were named. It's not going to stand and it's not going to happen.

And I'm going to be very skeptical of someone's opinion if they believe that the only reason a character has issues is because of what said character said their problem is. That shows a severe lack of understanding about how people and their minds work - and don't try to argue that point with me. You'll fail, hard. Trust me. 1. Foot-stamping? No, I am pointing out how logically, you are incorrect in the purest sense of the word. No mod-status can change that.

2. Long-standing members? Never insinuated such a thing, I was speaking in general. But fine, I won't bring it up again.

3. Way to take what I said out of context. Granted, I am wrong about Tidus not having suffered some emotional trauma due to his father's disappearance and death looking back at it, I can admit I am wrong unlike some people.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
1. Well, because the mod in here just defined the subject of the thread as so.

2. Well then I hope you don't care too much when you eventually get booted out of here for all the isuses you keep having with these people you don't care about (i.e. everyone), because we sure as heck don't want people like that around here. I'll be keeping a careful watch. 1. Being a mod does not make you correct.

2. Having a poor disposition is not breaking a rule. But I like how you nigh-outright stated that you are going to look for any excuse to ban me.

Logically it would make sense to reference the characters only from their appearances in games when discussing purely their videogame personifcation. Adding canon that was thrown together a decade later to try and decry their quality from the game is sloppy at best.

The discussion is purely about the games, not the canon. Simple concept, really.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. Foot-stamping? No, I am pointing out how logically, you are incorrect in the purest sense of the word. No mod-status can change that.

2. Long-standing members? Never insinuated such a thing, I was speaking in general. But fine, I won't bring it up again.

3. Way to take what I said out of context. Granted, I am wrong about Tidus not having suffered some emotional trauma due to his father's disappearance and death looking back at it, I can admit I am wrong unlike some people.

And I don't care if you think I'm incorrect. This is about the games. Just like how we don't consider AC canon in the Vs forum. Games matter only.

I only admit that I'm wrong when I actually am. I will happily state that I have a much better understanding of why people act the way they do and the way the mind works than you do, and thus I can more accurately analyze a character.

Now, what I said isn't really up for debate, so I'd leave it were I you.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. Being a mod does not make you correct.

2. Having a poor disposition is not breaking a rule. But I like how you nigh-outright stated that you are going to look for any excuse to ban me.

When it comes to stating the rules, it does.

And I wouldn't even need to look for reasons to ban you - I will flat out state right now that it's only because I err on the side of leniency that you're still on KMC at all.

So drop it.

Your 'poor disposition' has caused a string of disciplinary problems from you that are against the rules, and your effective stated contempt here for other posters is definitely enough for me to consider you a problem once more. It won't be an 'excuse'- it will be a solid reason if you keep up that attitude.

And being the mod DOES mean she can set the terms of the argument around here. And the argument here is about the computer games only. That rules out any possibility of AC being relevant; you can squawk about being correct all you like but that's just a logic failure.

Now, the mod decision has been made. I can give you a warning now if you want to keep arguing it.

Fine, I'll stop posting.

Originally posted by Peach

I only admit that I'm wrong when I actually am. I will happily state that I have a much better understanding of why people act the way they do and the way the mind works than you do, and thus I can more accurately analyze a character.


Did you study psychology or something?

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Did you study psychology or something?

Studying. But yes. Aiming for a career in it, in fact.

Nice. How many years left? If its all right to know.

Oh, a lot. Since I'm aiming for a doctorate (I want to be a psychologist, research instead of counseling, though). I'm not going to be done with schooling anytime soon.

So no spinoff dicussion eh? To hell with Zack and Ramza then I say.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I think you need to re-assess your understanding of the term 'introverted'. Batman it ain't, not by an exceptiobnally long shot. It most definitely is not a synonym for 'brooding'.

Try again.


Batman is an introvert.
Always was, always has been.

He alienates most of his partners like Robin and Batgirl.
He treats them like shit.

He likes to work alone most of the time. In other words, he's a loner.
Heck, even the Justice League members dislike him. They only work with him out of fear and respect.

Despite that, he's one of the greatest superheroes ever created.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer


Batman is an introvert.
Always was, always has been.

He alienates most of his partners like Robin and Batgirl.
He treats them like shit.

He likes to work alone most of the time. In other words, he's a loner.
Heck, even the Justice League members dislike him. They only work with him out of fear and respect.

Despite that, he's one of the greatest superheroes ever created.
Batman is brooding, yes, but hardly introverted to the same level as Squall. In the comics his thoughts are displayed for the reader to see; in the animated universe he quite often explains his thoughts to Alfred, or any allies or even opponents that might be nearby.

Batman is relatable, because you do in fact get a window into his mind.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
In the comics his thoughts are displayed for the reader to see ......That doesn't make him any less introverted, that just means he has the ability for thought like any human, introverted or not, does.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
......That doesn't make him any less introverted, that just means he has the ability for thought like any human, introverted or not, does.
It's a valid route in the comic medium, is what I'm saying. He is, in effect, speaking to the reader.

That is true.

But the same can be said about pretty much every comic character, no matter how introverted they are.

Granted I do not care less whether Batman is introverted or not, since I generally abhor the character.

Originally posted by BackFire
Just a Red Mage to 35. Then started messing around with the new classes. Got a Dark Knight to like 18. I would have gotten further but I got into the WoW beta and that pretty much took over. Ah ok, well everyone has their own opinions but personally i feel FFXI is a pretty good game as i have played much of it for a long time.

Yeah I enjoyed it. I have some fond memories.

I remember those little goblins chasing people across the entire zone in that desert area, then the person would zone out and the goblin would aggro some afker sitting near the entrance and kill them.

And I remember that big Ram in Konchstant Highlands one shotting careless people as they went into the desert area.

How long ago have you played it though? I'll admit while i really liked that game, there were a few flaws which made me a little unhappy.

Lmao i still remember in that jungle you pt at lv 25+(in the old days before the updates), one person would aggro a goblin and then cause it to kill so many other parties after he zoned it.

Sigh so many fond memories, had to quit though as real life as greater priorities.

I tried WOW after that but couldn't get into it like i did in XI.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer


Batman is an introvert.
Always was, always has been.

He alienates most of his partners like Robin and Batgirl.
He treats them like shit.

He likes to work alone most of the time. In other words, he's a loner.
Heck, even the Justice League members dislike him. They only work with him out of fear and respect.

Not one bit of which makes him an introvert.

Whereas, as I say, the fact that he is a socialite who is continually expressing himself openly (every bloody night) makes him the opposite.

I am surprised how clueless people are about introversion. Being a loner is not the same thing, and that's a doubtful label to it Batman with anyway seeing that in public consciousness he is generally associated with being with someone else.

One of the few actually introverted people in the list given above is Auron. He's a good character but he would have been an awful main character.

Rorscharch, in comparison, is laughable on such a list- he expresses himself to everyone and his mother, whether they want to hear it or not. He's got mental issues with is personality but that sure as ehck is not introversion.

So don't go labelling every angst-character an introvert. Meanwhile, as I say, genuine introverts are rubbish action heroes. The only time Final Fantasy did that, they got one of their least popular leads ever.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer


Batman is an introvert.
Always was, always has been.

He alienates most of his partners like Robin and Batgirl.
He treats them like shit.

He likes to work alone most of the time. In other words, he's a loner.
Heck, even the Justice League members dislike him. They only work with him out of fear and respect.

Despite that, he's one of the greatest superheroes ever created.

Him alienating and treating his partners like shit makes him an ass that treats people like shit, not introverted.

Angst != introversion. Brooding != introversion. Mental issues != introversion.

(also, since I feel someone's going to make the claim that Batman's antisocial - go read up on what that word actually means, first, because 99% of people who use it do so the wrong way)

Originally posted by Peach
Angst != introversion. Brooding != introversion. Mental issues != introversion.

Wow, that's a verbal bitchslap to introverts everywhere.

*Cries in corner*

Originally posted by Peach

Angst != introversion. Brooding != introversion. Mental issues != introversion.
Actually, all 3 of those equate to introversion

Originally posted by Kero_Co
Wow, that's a verbal bitchslap to introverts everywhere.

Umm, how? Do you know what '!=' means? It stands for "does not equal".

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Actually, all 3 of those equate to introversion

No, they don't. Someone can be introverted and have one (or two, or all) of those traits, but they do not automatically equate to being introverted. Someone can be an extrovert with those same traits, as well.

Vincent is pretty cool.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Fine, I'll stop posting.

Looks like you don't have much of a choice there buddy mmm

Originally posted by Peach
Studying. But yes. Aiming for a career in it, in fact.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/fun%20pics/1218125557387.jpg

Just a note to the thing i said ages ago, Squall is only my favourite hero because of his facial scar and weapon... The character himself pales in comparison to the actual 3 dimensional lead characters.

Never seen it before, my apologies Ms. Peach.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Favorite Game:
Best Story:
Best Music:
Best Hero:
Best Heroine:
Best Villain:
Best Gameplay:

Simple enough categories. I'm curious to see some of the answers.

Favorite Game: VII
Best Story: VII
Best Music: VII in general (VIII has plenty of highs, but some awful lows)
Best Hero: Barrett/Vivi
Best Heroine: Tifa, i guess. Very few others really impressed me.
Best Villain: Sephiroth
Best Gameplay: VII/XII

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I am surprised how clueless people are about introversion. Being a loner is not the same thing, and that's a doubtful label to it Batman with anyway seeing that in public consciousness he is generally associated with being with someone else.

Batman is an introvert. Bruce Wayne isn't. The difference? The Bruce Wayne thing is an act. It isn't who he is. The guy in the cape and cowl is who he is. to the people that know him (and remember, not many people know batman) he is considered what we would define as an introvert. this includes alfred, dick grayson and superman.



i disagree. characters being introverted has been a stable of the superhero genre since the 60s. and i'm not talking about random team member #4 or anything, i'm talking about central characters. cyclops for example, from the x-men. a nice guy? no. a well liked guy? no. a confident guy? no. he actually fills all the criteria of an introvert.

as an action hero, though? he kicks. ass.

anyways, as far as FF goes, Squall might not have been the most likeable of characters, but he was more of a hero than Tidus, imo. Squall did plenty of action oriented stuff, and even though Rinoa REALLY wasn't worth the trouble, he caused hell just to get her back. also, maybe he didn't develop THAT much, and that's fine, imo. I don't see why he has to shift that dramatically. he started off as a bit of an outcast, and became a leader.

is he a great character? no. of course not. but is he a hero? damn straight.

and quistis? seriously? why on earth...

Why does it always boil down to Tidus vs Squall anyways? They're both shitty, just so happens Tidus is in the superior game.

Introversion:


http://www.mypersonality.info/personality-types/extraverted-introverted/

http://psychology.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_introvert

All of these descriptions could be applied to Batman:

Batman is prep-time: in versus matches Batman "with prep" is considered pretty much unbeatable (from what little I've seen online)
Batman tends to have a plan: in TDK he carefully and methodically searches for the Joker with a system
Batman is not particularly vocal (in universe)
Batman keeps to the shadows and is not the center of attention. While Bruce Wayne may hold that place, the consensus (that was not challenged by the dissenting voices even in this thread) is that Batman is the actual personality while Wayne is a front, an act
Batman's motivations (vengeance) are focused within himself- the urge to find revenge and the conflict between that need and the need for justice beyond revenge are definitely 'within own world'.

He seems to fit the criteria- omniscient narration does not nullify his behavior, no matter how much is revealed to the reader.

Originally posted by BackFire
Why does it always boil down to Tidus vs Squall anyways? They're both shitty, just so happens Tidus is in the superior game.

ugh. how dare you... uhuh

1. Final Fantasy VII.
2. Final Fantasy IX.
3. Final Fantasy IV.
4. Final Fantasy VI.
5. Final Fantasy III (DS).

I honestly don't get all the love for X, easily one of my least favorite FFs.

Favorite Game: FFX
Best Story:FFX
Best Music:FFX
Best Hero:Auron
Best Heroine:Yuna
Best Villain: Seymour
Best Gameplay:FFX

Favorite Game: Final Fantasy IX.
Best Story: Undecided.
Best Music: FFVII/FFVIII/FFIX.
Best Hero: Squall Leonhart.
Best Heroine: Yuna.
Best Villain: Kefka.
Best Gameplay: Final Fantasy X.