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At first sight this may seem like a ridiculous match up, but the only thing that concerns me is when people talk about ssj4 Goku's feats, they always bring up the fact that he struggled to lift a building or how he had trouble getting unfrozen. Kenshiro on the other hand walked "through" a falling building as if it were butter. Take away Goku's fireball attacks and put him in a H2H match with Kenshiro, who walks away the victor? No BFR either.

SSJ4 Goku is too quick and powerful normally. Musou Tensei would cause him problems, since it's not speed based (though it does allow you to move at incredible speed) it creates an illusion you can't see through and thus you intangibly move to attack all around the opponent. He would need ki moves to stop it, and you can't sense the air or ki from it otherwise.

If you take away the weirdness of Musou Tensei, then SSJ4 Goku is clearly superior physically. Kenshiro can hit waaay above his weight because of pressure point strikes, but SSJ4 Goku is too much.

Now about his feats, you have to remember that DBZ has always had piss poor lifting feats compared to it's striking ones (which are above Ken's). Unless you count ki lifting, of course.

Even still, by the time you get to GT, Goku can lift more anyway, and he's been able to strike harder since early DBZ. SSJ4 Goku didn't struggle with the building. What was odd was that his base form wasn't sufficient, so he had to turn SSJ4 which easily lifted the building, and people also forget that he lifted the whole half of that city back into place after that. He could be lifting over a billion tonnes at that point, and at least many millions. Kenshiro is a thousand tonner in lifting.


Adult Dragonball - Early DBZ Goku would be more like a match.

Plus he took a full punch from Omega Shenron in the face with no discomfort, and he moved so fast even one of the top 4 most powerful evil guys in the DBZ universe couldn't keep up with him.

...sigh.once again Kenshiro is pitte againt some a billion times his power level...what is it with Kenshiro vs DBZ he cant win !!!!!

Originally posted by BradBalboa
...sigh.once again Kenshiro is pitte againt some a billion times his power level...what is it with Kenshiro vs DBZ he cant win !!!!!

Only against CERTAIN characters. Not all of them.

But I gotta say, SS4 Goku wins this one.

Originally posted by BradBalboa
...sigh.once again Kenshiro is pitte againt some a billion times his power level...what is it with Kenshiro vs DBZ he cant win !!!!!

CAN'T is a bit severe. If even a high level Goku makes a mistake, he's had it. Now, Goku is far MORE LIKELY to win after Dragonball series in physical attributes and he was even able to make Kamehameha as a kid which could kill Ken.

Maybe if it was a purely HtH fight Ken might have a chance

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Maybe if it was a purely HtH fight Ken might have a chance

Originally posted by six6six
take away Goku's fireball attacks and put him in a H2H match with Kenshiro

As fast as they throw blows in DBZ? They're arms and legs are blurs, and only stop when they block.

Well, going by the way Goku fights, he normally won't go all out at first. He likes to see what his opponents got and then unleashes when neccessary. If he were to do that and and give Kenshiro an opportunity, couldn't Ken just do his pressure point strikes and blow Goku's head up?

Originally posted by six6six
Well, going by the way Goku fights, he normally won't go all out at first. He likes to see what his opponents got and then unleashes when neccessary. If he were to do that and and give Kenshiro an opportunity, couldn't Ken just do his pressure point strikes and blow Goku's head up?


But if you want to have Goku in character, Ken has to be too. Ken doesn't use head pressure points against strong opponents. He respects them.

Ken also absorbs an opponent's fighting style first by witnessing their attacks, so he can read their moves.

Well if they were in character, you can always expect Goku to fight in hand-to-hand first, which would definitely give Kenshiro a chance.

Altough if Ken tried to use Hakto moves he would either break his hands on Gokus body, goku isnt human either so His preassure points will be different...

Actually, even though he's saiyan, there was nothing shown that his body was anatomically different from humans. It was certainly close enough for him to catch a heart disease. Although I will admit Goku's resistance to blunt force trauma, punches included, is legendary.

Yeh, But since he IS from Another Planet Kenshiros preassurepoints are likely to be ineffective, plus kenshiro if he hit Goku hard enough, his hand wh=oiuld just shatte gokus body is too hard and kenshiros own strength would work agaisnt him!

Originally posted by KingD19
Actually, even though he's saiyan, there was nothing shown that his body was anatomically different from humans. It was certainly close enough for him to catch a heart disease. Although I will admit Goku's resistance to blunt force trauma, punches included, is legendary. also i think (dont quote me on this) that goku was the only one on the planet that got it kind of like he was the only one that could have gotten it. but again dont quote me i dont even remember if they said how he got it

Originally posted by BradBalboa
Altough if Ken tried to use Hakto moves he would either break his hands on Gokus body, goku isnt human either so His preassure points will be different...

Kenshiro can hit animal pressure points. Goku is humanoid and pressure points follow the flow of the blood. Unless his heart is on the right side or something like that (and his vein locations are inverted), pressure points should be found.

I don't think Ken would break his hands on Goku's body. They would just launch Goku flying, rebound, or stop dead if anything. Ken is very strong against physical force. Goku can break Ken with attacks though.

I think Goku was the only Z-Fighter affected, like he was the only important person afflicted with the disease.

I think everyone should be in agreement that SSJ4 Goku is too much, but that there are levels of Goku, Ken can compete with.

Simply put the three most powerful warriors in the DBZ verse are:
1.SSJ4 Gogeta
2.SSJ4 Goku
3.SSJ4 Vegeta

Ken can't take SSJ4 Goku.

I think Goku will win. but if Goku really had a pressure points, he will experience a pain that he never imagined before.

He obviously does have pressure points.

Originally posted by KingD19
As fast as they throw blows in DBZ? They're arms and legs are blurs, and only stop when they block.

Same goes for HNK and they don't stop when they block.

Originally posted by KingD19
Simply put the three most powerful warriors in the DBZ verse are:
1.SSJ4 Gogeta
2.SSJ4 Goku
3.SSJ4 Vegeta

Ken can't take SSJ4 Goku.

None of those characters are from DBZ.

SSJ4 Goku busts the solar system with ease based on powerscaling.

When I say DBZ I mean Dragonball universe from start to finish. It's easier to say DBZ then DBGT, or just DB. I watched the dragonball z series first, so it's what I always use.

Originally posted by Urban Ninja
SSJ4 Goku busts the solar system with ease based on powerscaling.

There is no official power levels in DBGT and he has never showed the power to destroy a solar system. If he did then the planet would be destroyed along with said Solar System.

Well, considering he blocked a ball that was supposedly powerful enough to destroy a planet, I'd say he's at least on planet busting level. Probably higher, because if Frieza could do it, then SSJ4 Goku is far beyond.

It's just completely unknown. Hyperbole says Cell can destroy the solar system (AKA supernova power), but he charged for like five minutes.

As far as I can tell, GT Goku would still have to charge even though he can do a lot more (collapse a black hole after ten minutes of charging?)

Bah. GT's screwy anyway, but it's obvious that Ken has little chance. A city buster can be fired instantly and then it's bye-bye Kenshiro.

Originally posted by Broken Warrior
It's just completely unknown. Hyperbole says Cell can destroy the solar system (AKA supernova power), but he charged for like five minutes.

As far as I can tell, GT Goku would still have to charge even though he can do a lot more (collapse a black hole after ten minutes of charging?)

Bah. GT's screwy anyway, but it's obvious that Ken has little chance. A city buster can be fired instantly and then it's bye-bye Kenshiro.

...unless of course Goku is foolish enough to under estimate Ken and give him the first shot...

Being in character, Ken probably won't kill him either.

I see this ending in a non lethal KO or draw, with Goku having a new respect for Ken's pressure point techniques and fighting style, and Ken having respect for Goku's power and ki techniques.


Like I said on page one though, I see Adult Goku from Dragonball being beatable by Ken fairly. He's more consistently invisible speed, and he has way higher ki durability, but Ken's pressure points, Musou Tensei, and copying technique should even things out.

Goku versus Kenshiro?

What, is Goku's speed, strength and durability suddenly reduced to 0.0001% of his normal showings or something?

Goku wins with absolutely no difficulty whatsoever.

Originally posted by Tyrant
Goku versus Kenshiro?

What, is Goku's speed, strength and durability suddenly reduced to 0.0001% of his normal showings or something?

Goku wins with absolutely no difficulty whatsoever.

Goku better not give him the first hit.

Originally posted by Tyrant
Goku versus Kenshiro?

What, is Goku's speed, strength and durability suddenly reduced to 0.0001% of his normal showings or something?

Goku wins with absolutely no difficulty whatsoever.


You see, this is what I was thinking.


If an axe shattered on 8-year old Goku, then how can Kenshiro even come close to doing anything to Goku?



Also, SSJ4 Goku struggled with the building because he was using his mind to apply that pressure to the entire building instead of that one spot he was pushing.


PIS explained.


It's still PIS if Goku does that, though, as his SSJ4 form should be so powerful that he could pick up a planet with his mind. (If power scaling actually occured.)

Originally posted by dadudemon
You see, this is what I was thinking.


If an axe shattered on 8-year old Goku, then how can Kenshiro even come close to doing anything to Goku?



Also, SSJ4 Goku struggled with the building because he was using his mind to apply that pressure to the entire building instead of that one spot he was pushing.


PIS explained.


It's still PIS if Goku does that, though, as his SSJ4 form should be so powerful that he could pick up a planet with his mind. (If power scaling actually occured.)

Because Kenshiro doesn't defeat his opponents from the outside. He destroys the body from the inside. Pressure points are pressure points. 1 finger to the temple and he is dead in three seconds.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Because Kenshiro doesn't defeat his opponents from the outside. He destroys the body from the inside. Pressure points are pressure points. 1 finger to the temple and he is dead in three seconds.


The hits have to penetrate into the body in order to be of any use.


Goku is much stronger than a diamond...based on his "feats" of durability.

diamond is only hard, its not all that strong, but i agree with you completely im just pointing that out cuz it always bugs me

Originally posted by dadudemon
The hits have to penetrate into the body in order to be of any use.


Goku is much stronger than a diamond...based on his "feats" of durability.

No they don't. His attacks rarely penetrate the body's skin or anything. Kenshiro can crush diamonds with his hands. Destroyed a tank with his fists and lifts rocks at least over 500 tons. If you still think he has to do pierce the body then he could use Toki's move Hokuto Ujou Hagan Ken

GF3dUsE2R6k

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
No they don't. His attacks rarely penetrate the body's skin or anything. Kenshiro can crush diamonds with his hands. Destroyed a tank with his fists and lifts rocks at least over 500 tons. If you still think he has to do pierce the body then he could use Toki's move Hokuto Ujou Hagan Ken

GF3dUsE2R6k


Let's put it into perspective.


Goku flexes his Ki, just like he did for SSJ3. Since he's much stronger in SSJ4, he has much more Ki. Shaking the planet apart.

Hooray! Goku then uses IT to go to another planet.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Let's put it into perspective.


Goku flexes his Ki, just like he did for SSJ3. Since he's much stronger in SSJ4, he has much more Ki. Shaking the planet apart.

Hooray! Goku then uses IT to go to another planet.

Not really, that move prevents the body from moving. It is also a counter move so Goku would have to attack first. Thats just one way he could stop him without physically touching him even though physically touching him can work as well. Hell he'd just have to grab his wrist and he'll die.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Not really, that move prevents the body from moving. It is also a counter move so Goku would have to attack first. Thats just one way he could stop him without physically touching him even though physically touching him can work as well. Hell he'd just have to grab his wrist and he'll die.

So, Kenshiro can fly?

Originally posted by dadudemon
So, Kenshiro can fly?

No but he can teleport. I don't think you understand the move though. Once Kenshiro does that move Goku can't move. He can't IT after failing the hit. THe aura he emits freezes your body. Like I said thats just one way. Ken has a nice arsenal of moves and knows many Nanto Seiken styles.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
No but he can teleport. I don't think you understand the move though. Once Kenshiro does that move Goku can't move. He can't IT after failing the hit. THe aura he emits freezes your body. Like I said thats just one way. Ken has a nice arsenal of moves and knows many Nanto Seiken styles.

You realize that Kid Goku was tanking bullets? And then he went and became stronger than Roshi, who obliterated the Moon in one shot. And then he tanked an island busting attack from Piccolo with no damage whatsoever. And then he went through King Kai's training and got at least a 20 fold increase in power. And then he went through 100 x gravity training and got jacked up at least 10 fold again? And then he got a massive near-death recovery and jacked up his power by at least 300 fold? And then got a 50 fold super saiyan multiplier? And this is all by the Frieza Saga. By the time GT rolls around, the guy is at least billions of times stronger.

The guy is so strong that at SSJ3 his ki is felt across the Galaxy. He powers up and the planet shakes... on a daily basis. He pulls earthquakes out of his ass just by screaming.

He's faster than Gotenks, a guy who flew around the planet approximately 8 times in one panel.

And you think there's anything that Kenshiro can do to beat Goku? Like is there really anything that's going to stop Goku from speedblitzing Ken in one picosecond?

Christ, Kenshiro is one of my favorite characters. So I don't appreciate him being put up against a tank like Goku.

Originally posted by Tyrant
You realize that Kid Goku was tanking bullets? And then he went and became stronger than Roshi, who obliterated the Moon in one shot. And then he tanked an island busting attack from Piccolo with no damage whatsoever. And then he went through King Kai's training and got at least a 20 fold increase in power. And then he went through 100 x gravity training and got jacked up at least 10 fold again? And then he got a massive near-death recovery and jacked up his power by at least 300 fold? And then got a 50 fold super saiyan multiplier? And this is all by the Frieza Saga. By the time GT rolls around, the guy is at least billions of times stronger.

The guy is so strong that at SSJ3 his ki is felt across the Galaxy. He powers up and the planet shakes... on a daily basis. He pulls earthquakes out of his ass just by screaming.

He's faster than Gotenks, a guy who flew around the planet approximately 8 times in one panel.

And you think there's anything that Kenshiro can do to beat Goku? Like is there really anything that's going to stop Goku from speedblitzing Ken in one picosecond?

Christ, Kenshiro is one of my favorite characters. So I don't appreciate him being put up against a tank like Goku.

If you know about Kenshiro than you should know that he could end this in one move. Like I said if Goku gives him the first hit then he is screwed. Ken has lifted rocks at least over 500 tons, has had rocks equally big or bigger break over his head and he is able to reinccarnate himself through Musou Tensei. How can you think HSK won't work on him when his body behaves like a normal persons outside of his strength and ki? Doesn't matter how many blasts he's taken he hasn't taken an attack that focuses on the inside of the body. Thats like saying lightning to his brain wouldn't hurt. IF a heart disease can affect him then so can HSK.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
If you know about Kenshiro than you should know that he could end this in one move. Like I said if Goku gives him the first hit then he is screwed. Ken has lifted rocks at least over 500 tons, has had rocks equally big or bigger break over his head and he is able to reinccarnate himself through Musou Tensei. How can you think HSK won't work on him when his body behaves like a normal persons outside of his strength and ki? Doesn't matter how many blasts he's taken he hasn't taken an attack that focuses on the inside of the body. Thats like saying lightning to his brain wouldn't hurt. IF a heart disease can affect him then so can HSK.

Goku's organs are likely just as strong as his exterior. If they weren't, he would die from his innards being crushed by the pressure of planet-busting attacks hitting his body.

And once again, this is all assuming that Goku doesn't end the fight with a mere kiai in the first few milliseconds.

Geez this is stupid, ken is strong but goku wins easily

Originally posted by Tyrant
Goku's organs are likely just as strong as his exterior. If they weren't, he would die from his innards being crushed by the pressure of planet-busting attacks hitting his body.

And once again, this is all assuming that Goku doesn't end the fight with a mere kiai in the first few milliseconds.

Really? Saiyans have super durable organs now? When has anyone's organs been as durable as their outside? No matter how strong a man is his heart is as vulnerable to damage as a baby's.

Not True, Saiyans have Evolved for the single purpose of beign Warriors, their insides will be very dense and as they get stornger as will their insdes just like the rets of them, plus goku might not even have the same preassure points anyways Kens fingers wud break if he tried sumthign like that on goku

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Really? Saiyans have super durable organs now? When has anyone's organs been as durable as their outside? No matter how strong a man is his heart is as vulnerable to damage as a baby's.

Gravity training.

Gravity affects the whole body, including the inside.

If guys like Goku and Vegeta's organs were as weak as a normal human they would get squashed by the pressure of hundreds of times Earth gravity, that they casually train in.

And this is just assuming that Goku doesn't automatically run up to Ken and kill him the second the fight starts.

Originally posted by Tyrant
Gravity training.

Gravity affects the whole body, including the inside.

If guys like Goku and Vegeta's organs were as weak as a normal human they would get squashed by the pressure of hundreds of times Earth gravity, that they casually train in.

And this is just assuming that Goku doesn't automatically run up to Ken and kill him the second the fight starts.

Gravity does nothing to pressure points. Goku's pressure points and organs are vulnerable.

Seriously though, intense gravity crushes everything if you're not strong enough to resist it. Put a regular person in a gravity chamber or g-force simulator and introduce to much, they will be pulp, because their body can't handle the pressure. Goku and Vegeta handled it countless times.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Gravity does nothing to pressure points. Goku's pressure points and organs are vulnerable.

Logically fallacies on multiple levels.

1. This assumes Goku will allow him to hit him. Wrong.

2. This assumes the pressure point techniques will even penetrate Goku's planet-exploding proof skin. Wrong.

3. This assumes Goku is susceptible to pressure points. (No where is it shown that anyone is susceptible to pressure points in the DB universe.) Wrong.

4. This also assumes Kenshiro is even anywhere close to Goku's speed. Wrong.



Also, if the internal organs have been hardened or are just simply amazing, as someone else pointed out, no, they would not be affected in anyway shape or form by pressure point manipulation as seen from Kenshiro. Even a slight change in pressure in arteries or veins causes them to rupture. In the 1 psi range. If Goku has withstood 400 G's, that puts his ability to resist head exploding techniques at 400 psi or more. That makes sense since the DBZ characters can tank attacks that can incinerate areas that are much much larger than a city....and even tank planet destroying attacks, such as the Death Ball SSJ4 absorbed.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Logically fallacies on multiple levels.

1. This assumes Goku will allow him to hit him. Wrong.

2. This assumes the pressure point techniques will even penetrate Goku's planet-exploding proof skin. Wrong.

3. This assumes Goku is susceptible to pressure points. (No where is it shown that anyone is susceptible to pressure points in the DB universe.) Wrong.

4. This also assumes Kenshiro is even anywhere close to Goku's speed. Wrong.



Also, if the internal organs have been hardened or are just simply amazing, as someone else pointed out, no, they would not be affected in anyway shape or form by pressure point manipulation as seen from Kenshiro. Even a slight change in pressure in arteries or veins causes them to rupture. In the 1 psi range. If Goku has withstood 400 G's, that puts his ability to resist head exploding techniques at 400 psi or more. That makes sense since the DBZ characters can tank attacks that can incinerate areas that are much much larger than a city....and even tank planet destroying attacks, such as the Death Ball SSJ4 absorbed.

Planet exploding proof skin? Ever planet busting attack that hit him killed him. Besides, Ken doesn't penetrate skin when he attacks. He grabbed a dude's wrist and he died later on. THe video I posted showed HSK working without even touching them. Goku is susceptible to human diseases so why wouldn't he have pressure points? His body acts like a humans.

Goku usually welcomes the first blow to gauge his opponents. Kenshiro isn't evil...hell the dude is sinless tbh since neither are evil neither will try to kill each other. My point is that HSK can kill Goku.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Planet exploding proof skin? Ever planet busting attack that hit him killed him.

Then you obviously didn't pay attention to any of the shows or manga. I even gave you an example.


Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Besides, Ken doesn't penetrate skin when he attacks. He grabbed a dude's wrist and he died later on. THe video I posted showed HSK working without even touching them. Goku is susceptible to human diseases so why wouldn't he have pressure points? His body acts like a humans.

Yes, some of his attacks are employed specifically to penetrate the skin. Why would Goku stand still for 5 minutes while the guy very slowly sends an attack his direction?


Also...

Goku's SSJ4 form is so powerful that it is mightier than the magical wishes of the dragon balls.

SSJ4>the second most powerful form of magic seen in the DB universe. I would say that only the original namekian dragon is more powerful than Earth's reformed Dragon. They both can grant 3 wishes.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Goku usually welcomes the first blow to gauge his opponents. Kenshiro isn't evil...hell the dude is sinless tbh since neither are evil neither will try to kill each other. My point is that HSK can kill Goku.

Now, this would be a good point, if Goku was susceptible to pressure point manipulation. Since no one in the DB universe was ever shown to be, then Kenshiro does crap to Goku when he was a weeeeee laddie.


Also, like it's been pointed out, Goku's body leagues beyond what a normal body is. To even think that any sort of pressure point manipulation is even possible on Goku's body should be considered retarded.


I pointed out all of your logical fallacies already, though.



I would say that this thread is another stupid "My favorite, but obviously and ridiculously weaker character versus Goku".

You do realize that Kenshiro has struck pressure points on other not-so-normal people too, right? Just because Goku is far beyond regular humans, doesn't mean he can't be effected by pressure points.

Originally posted by SmashBro
You do realize that Kenshiro has struck pressure points on other not-so-normal people too, right? Just because Goku is far beyond regular humans, doesn't mean he can't be effected by pressure points.

Show me where any DB character was susceptible to pressure points and I'll believe you.


This is similar to Aizen being suscpeptible to Reiatsu, but Trunks not. Each universe has it's weaknesses and strengths.



However, that doesn't matter because Kenshiro won't get a hit on Goku, nor will he get some projection done, either.

Well, SSJ3, and SSJ4 Goku are the most serious incarnations, they don't play around, they don't give their opponents chances. They whoop ass from the get go. SSJ4 Goku would probably do a kamehameha and end the fight as soon as it starts.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Show me where any DB character was susceptible to pressure points and I'll believe you.


This is similar to Aizen being suscpeptible to Reiatsu, but Trunks not. Each universe has it's weaknesses and strengths.



However, that doesn't matter because Kenshiro won't get a hit on Goku, nor will he get some projection done, either.

Pressure points are areas on the body that effects someone when manipulated so unless Goku's insides are different (which is unlikely and never proven to be), he is vulnerable to pressure points.

Something important to consider is that SSJ4 is part Oozaru so it does not have entirely human physiology.

Yeah, the fur and tail are evidence, lol.

And most of Omega Shenron's attacks could be considered on the very least city buster. He took them.

it's useless.

Kenshiro can search his pressure point just like what he did with Souther. and if u count Raoh-den ten no haoh, Raoh can press the pressure point of a horse. Kenshiro must be able to do the same since they are HSK user.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
it's useless.

Kenshiro can search his pressure point just like what he did with Souther. and if u count Raoh-den ten no haoh, Raoh can press the pressure point of a horse. Kenshiro must be able to do the same since they are HSK user.

This assumes the Goku's body, which is many many times more durable than a diamond, can be effected in anyway by the effects of pressure point manipulation and the other types of nervous system affects Kenshiro has.


It has never proven to be useful on any DB character. Also, Goku's SSJ4 form is proven clearly to surpass even the magic of the mighty Shenron. Is Kenshiro>planet sized restoring magic? Can he even affect something on a planet scale? No? Well, why does this thread even exist?

Originally posted by dadudemon
This assumes the Goku's body, which is many many times more durable than a diamond, can be effected in anyway by the effects of pressure point manipulation and the other types of nervous system affects Kenshiro has.


It has never proven to be useful on any DB character. Also, Goku's SSJ4 form is proven clearly to surpass even the magic of the mighty Shenron. Is Kenshiro>planet sized restoring magic? Can he even affect something on a planet scale? No? Well, why does this thread even exist?

1. In which it most likely can. HSK kills people from the inside and since it's pressure points that he's hitting, brute force doesn't necessarily have to be applied (this does NOT mean Kenshiro never uses strength when does it, as he does at times).

2. There are no DB character that have ever used pressure points in the first place so that doesn't mean anything. Also, Omega Shenron's feats doesn't apply to SSJ4 Goku's, as he doesn't use magic.

The whole thing is, since Pressure Points were never used in the Dragonball universe, and especially since they weren't used specifically on SSJ4, unless Akira Toriyama does a press conference and states, pressure point attacks work on all of my characters, even SSJ4 Goku and up, then saying he's affected by them is not a valid argument, since there is no proof. You'd have to go by Ken's strength and speed to help him in this fight. And going by that, Goku wins, he's stronger, faster, and you can believe that his energy attacks(force+heat) will work on Ken.

Roshi used pressure points on the Man-Wolf...

So simply because Toriyama haven't said such a thing, we just assume that they won't effect Goku? That's a really flawed argument as we can use that for a lot of things.

Saying that nobody in the DB universe have pressure points is almost like saying they have not heart or no ribs or no insides at all or something. All the humans obviously have pressure points and Goku's body is similar to that of a human so he obviously have pressure points too.

I'm not saying every single character have pressure points but the humans and human-like people obviously does.

You didn't get what I meant. SInce no one made an attack on SSJ4 that effected pressure points, saying he can be affect by Pressure point attacks is speculation at best. I didn't say no one could be effected, I was just making an example. And while Saiyans are extremely similar to humans, they are obviously naturally tougher, stronger, etc... And they may have different organs or body chemistry that make a big difference. Also, SSJ4 is at least percentage Oozaru, considering he has red fur everywhere except his abdomen , hands, and probably his feet. Plus a really long tail.

Originally posted by KingD19
You didn't get what I meant. SInce no one made an attack on SSJ4 that effected pressure points, saying he can be affect by Pressure point attacks is speculation at best. I didn't say no one could be effected, I was just making an example. And while Saiyans are extremely similar to humans, they are obviously naturally tougher, stronger, etc... And they may have different organs or body chemistry that make a big difference. Also, SSJ4 is at least percentage Oozaru, considering he has red fur everywhere except his abdomen , hands, and probably his feet. Plus a really long tail.

If pressure points worked, then you'd see them used as they would be very effective.


Since they weren't used at the World's martial art tournies, we have to assume that once you reach a certain strength, it's useless to use pressure points.


Since Goky and company can tank blasts that are much more powerful than a nuke, and Goku himself, in SSJ4 form absorbed the Death Ball attack that was more than powerful enough to destroy the earth many times over, why would something minscule and insignificant like a pressure point user even come remotely close to affecting any of the characters?


You do know that Goku has been hit so hard that he smashed through several mountains. The G-Forces of that alone would be in the thousands to millions. That'd create great havoc to a person whose organs were the same on the inside. Since it's retarded to assume the "internal organs" can be considered anything but insanely durable, why would pressure point techniques work on Goku again?

As someone else pointed out, the SSj4 form is his grumpiest form. He doesn't play around.


This is what happens. They start .5 KM apart, .000002 seconds later, Kenshiro has a hole punched through his head. The end.

I'm the one who said SSJ4 was grumpy. You wanted to say that to SmashBro, these were things I knew and understood already.

Originally posted by KingD19
I'm the one who said SSJ4 was grumpy. You wanted to say that to SmashBro, these were things I knew and understood already.

You're right. I quoted the wrong bloke.


You're right, obviously, about your points.

Yaay.^_^

Originally posted by KingD19
You didn't get what I meant. SInce no one made an attack on SSJ4 that effected pressure points, saying he can be affect by Pressure point attacks is speculation at best. I didn't say no one could be effected, I was just making an example. And while Saiyans are extremely similar to humans, they are obviously naturally tougher, stronger, etc... And they may have different organs or body chemistry that make a big difference. Also, SSJ4 is at least percentage Oozaru, considering he has red fur everywhere except his abdomen , hands, and probably his feet. Plus a really long tail.

Then why mentioned Toriyama?

Again, I don't recall anyone in the DB using pressure points to beat their opponent because none of them trained in that kind of style. If they have the type of body parts a normal human does, then they have pressure points. And seeing that Goku has a heart that happens to be in same area normal humans have, then it should work.

Originally posted by dadudemon
If pressure points worked, then you'd see them used as they would be very effective.


Since they weren't used at the World's martial art tournies, we have to assume that once you reach a certain strength, it's useless to use pressure points.


Since Goky and company can tank blasts that are much more powerful than a nuke, and Goku himself, in SSJ4 form absorbed the Death Ball attack that was more than powerful enough to destroy the earth many times over, why would something minscule and insignificant like a pressure point user even come remotely close to affecting any of the characters?


You do know that Goku has been hit so hard that he smashed through several mountains. The G-Forces of that alone would be in the thousands to millions. That'd create great havoc to a person whose organs were the same on the inside. Since it's retarded to assume the "internal organs" can be considered anything but insanely durable, why would pressure point techniques work on Goku again?

As someone else pointed out, the SSj4 form is his grumpiest form. He doesn't play around.


This is what happens. They start .5 KM apart, .000002 seconds later, Kenshiro has a hole punched through his head. The end.

1. Just because they are effective, doesn't mean a random fighter would try to use it. Heck, not everybody even in the HNK world use it (most noticeably the Nanto Seiken users).

2. How can we assume that it won't work when nobody even used them? If it actually proved to be useless, then we might can think that but it's not.

3. That's if you're using an outside force and not something that can kill from within your body. If I take a chair and hit you in the face with it and it doesn't hurt you, that doesn't mean your insides are strong. It means your outward, physical body is strong enough to take it.

Originally posted by KingD19
Simply put the three most powerful warriors in the DBZ verse are:
1.SSJ4 Gogeta
2.SSJ4 Goku
3.SSJ4 Vegeta

Ken can't take SSJ4 Goku.

you forgot ssj vegito, although ssj4 gogeta is far more powerful than regular ssj vegito.. but vegito is a better fusion though.

dude ppls.. pressure points don't work, or else, someone would have already poked goku on a pressure point. basically, he has been punched on every inch of his body, and someone would by chance hit a pressure point. He didn't seem to be affected by any pressure points of any sort. unless you can prove that kenshiro can kill gorrillas with pressure points.. like i mean huge skyscraper size gorrillas that are alot wider than houses..

sry for double post but can't edit in less than 15 min.

i mean more than 15 min

Originally posted by kotorfan
dude ppls.. pressure points don't work, or else, someone would have already poked goku on a pressure point.

Horrible argument. No one in DBU has demonstrated that kind of martial art. Even in-universe only Hokuto Shinken users can really understand it, other people who use different styles are completely surprised.



That's not the way it works. There is a specific spiritual and precise physical component. Kenshiro's uncle was training to the point where he could put his finger through both sides of a drinking glass without breaking it, that kind of control and precise knowledge is needed. Just hitting someone in the place where the pressure point happens to be won't do a thing unless you know what you are doing.



He actually has killed beings several stories high

But anyway he loses due to flight + AoE spam

Goku has too, Golden Great Ape Baby, Hirudagarn, etc....

Did I say Goku would lose?

I was just pointing out the fallacious understanding of how pressure points work in HnK