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Iron Fist= current

VS

Richard Dragon- current

Who wins the Martial arts showdown?

* Cue Shaw Bros music*

Current IF can still amp his punches?
If he can, he clearly wins.

I would say Iron Fist.

Richard Dragon is at the absolute apex of martial arts capability ....any higher than him and you are heading into the 'woo-woo land' of martial arts (e.g. flaming fists, telepathy, fireballs, fighting Daxamites, etc). Him and (say) Shang Chi are at the absolute apex of martial arts capability.

RD has done some really crazy feats, such as matching Shiva (he would actually have won had it not been interrupted), and in my book he, Shiva, and Cassandra Cain are in the same level (let's ignore others like Draken and Mad Dog who should also be there).

However, Iron Fist is in the 'woo woo' category of martial arts. While RD can amp his chi, Danny amps it up in a manner that is beyond 'normal' (even for comics). There are also powers that empower his amp.

Which makes IF what RD would be if he was chanelling the life force of an entity that takes on the physical appearance of a Dragon with a flaming heart!

Iron Fist.

(However, Dragon would not feel humiliated by the loss, in much the same way that a top Formula 1 racer wouldn't feel bad being defeated in a race by another top Formula 1 racer .....who is instead flying a jetfighter).

Danny

Iron Fist isn't going all out against Dragon. Like he did with Daredevil, Dragon will have more success and I believe is a better all around Martial artist than Danny himself. I'm going with Dragon at classic levels here. Or an even split.

Didn't Richard dragon call Batman a really good amateur

Originally posted by Stryder Hiryu
Didn't Richard dragon call Batman a really good amateur

Don't get me wrong, Richard Dragon is tied for the number one spot in DC martial arts (that is, if we ignore folks like Karate Kid, Batman One million and WonderWoman, who are in totally different levels of existence ....as well as ignore probables like Draken and Mad Dog who could also be in the number one spot, as well as a whole list of other probables such as the Sensei, and a bunch of others that have appeared every now and then and been at ridiculously high levels of H2H combat) with Cassandra Cain and Shiva. While at times writers forget and put stupid stuff (like Batman knocking Shiva out, which can be excused by saying she was mind-controlled; or Shiva being knocked out with a chair, which is stupid considering she has killed masters while blindfolded), the fact still remains that the 3 are exceedingly good.

It is just that Danny is also ridiculously good as well, plus he has the 'woo woo' additions of being able to amp up chi. Sure, the others can also do the same (e.g. to the extent that Shiva was able to kill Cassie, and then bring her back) ....and they do have powerful blows, e.g. the Leopard blow that both Dragon and Shiva can do, where they drive their fingers through someone's skull.

however, that is not the same level as the chi amp that Danny uses, which is firmly into woo-woo territory.

No disrespect to Dragon, but this is Danny's to lose. They are the same character more or less, just that one was taken too deep into the mystical side of things (e.g. extra-temporal cities that exist in other dimensions, dragons with flaming hearts, and what is quite literally 'powers').

Dragon is just plain darn good ....Danny is also plain darn good, with crazy Chinese magic.

Originally posted by spetznaz
Richard Dragon is tied for the number one spot in DC martial arts with Cassandra Cain and Shiva.
IMO Deathstroke is up there too

Originally posted by cloud102
Iron Fist isn't going all out against Dragon. Like he did with Daredevil, Dragon will have more success and I believe is a better all around Martial artist than Danny himself. I'm going with Dragon at classic levels here. Or an even split. Danny doesn't have to go all out to beat RD, he barely used his powers against DD, and that was before his chi was doubled iirc.

RD is out of his weightclass here.

Originally posted by Mindset
Danny doesn't have to go all out to beat RD, he barely used his powers against DD, and that was before his chi was doubled iirc.

RD is out of his weightclass here.

Yes, he would, IMO. I don't see amped punches working, nor is Danny a better MA than him.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
IMO Deathstroke is up there too

Deathstroke isn't that great of a fighter. In terms of actual skill.

Originally posted by cloud102
Deathstroke isn't that great of a fighter. In terms of actual skill.

I'd agree. He's got enhanced durability, strength, and speed- in terms of actual fighting skill, I'd say Tim Drake is just as good as him.

Yeah, I'd agree with Spetznaz here. Dragon is insanely good- and my personal favorite of the DC "top tier" martial artists; however, Danny just has the advantage of basically having super-powers: healing, melting through iron, throwing fireballs, that kind of thing. Especially in this current series, where he's seriously learning what the iron fist power can do (like chi-amped weapons and stuff like that)-

Without the Iron Fist powers, on just "technique" (if you can call it that, when "martial artists" can regularly fight guys who run through buildings), I'd say Richard Dragon would take the win.

Originally posted by cloud102
Yes, he would, IMO. I don't see amped punches working, nor is Danny a better MA than him. And you've read the recent IF comics to be able to make an educated opinion?

Originally posted by Mindset
And you've read the recent IF comics to be able to make an educated opinion?

Yes, probably my favorite Marvel book out. Not counting the new writer, but when has Danny taken down someone on RD's level? Remember Dragon took down a meta that easily disposed of Turner, who later took down Batman with a couple of moves, IIRC. Dragon is probably top spot in the DCU.

Originally posted by cloud102
Yes, probably my favorite Marvel book out. Not counting the new writer, but when has Danny taken down someone on RD's level? Remember Dragon took down a meta that easily disposed of Turner, who later took down Batman with a couple of moves, IIRC. Dragon is probably top spot in the DCU. Well you must have forgotten everything Danny has done.

In a couple hours, more like 12, when I get up, I'll post scans.

Originally posted by Mindset
Well you must have forgotten everything Danny has done.

In a couple hours, more like 12, when I get up, I'll post scans.

Yeah, I haven't read the first few trades in a while, but I remember some impressive destruction attacks that destroyed a train and whatnot.

But what I'm looking for is him using the Chi on an opponent like Dragon, who also has chi abilities. Someone who is as SKILLED. Because I don't remember him going all out on skilled opponents.

Like when Steel Serpent right out and ****ed up that Beautiful Daughter. Danny doesn't seem to do that from what I recall. But you can prove me wrong tomorrow. Now get some sleep!

Originally posted by tjcoady
I'd agree. He's got enhanced durability, strength, and speed- in terms of actual fighting skill, I'd say Tim Drake is just as good as him.



Skillwise, Drake shits on Deathstroke.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Skillwise, Drake shits on Deathstroke.
And why is that?

Deathstroke uses 90% of the brain; most of us use only 10%.
He can read moves before they are even thrown, like 8-9 moves before.
And he has a healing factor and probably immortal.

Skillwise? He's taken down the entire Teen Titans on his own numerous times.
Nuff said.

Iron Fist

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Deathstroke uses 90% of the brain; most of us use only 10%.

*sigh*

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
And why is that?

Deathstroke uses 90% of the brain; most of us use only 10%.
He can read moves before they are even thrown, like 8-9 moves before.
And he has a healing factor and probably immortal.

Skillwise? He's taken down the entire Teen Titans on his own numerous times.
Nuff said.

That's not accurate scientifically, and that's not accurate comics-wise.

And, anyways, regarding all of those problems, we were talking about Deathstroke without his various enhancements- just martial arts skills.

Originally posted by cloud102
Yeah, I haven't read the first few trades in a while, but I remember some impressive destruction attacks that destroyed a train and whatnot.

But what I'm looking for is him using the Chi on an opponent like Dragon, who also has chi abilities. Someone who is as SKILLED. Because I don't remember him going all out on skilled opponents.

Like when Steel Serpent right out and ****ed up that Beautiful Daughter. Danny doesn't seem to do that from what I recall. But you can prove me wrong tomorrow. Now get some sleep! Hmm, well I forgot about this thread and bsg is coming on, sooooooooo

Tomorrow, I'll post scans

If this thread is bumped.

Originally posted by Mindset
Hmm, well I forgot about this thread and bsg is coming on, sooooooooo

Tomorrow, I'll post scans

If this thread is bumped.

A bump for the purpose of scans.

Originally posted by tjcoady
That's not accurate scientifically, and that's not accurate comics-wise.

And, anyways, regarding all of those problems, we were talking about Deathstroke without his various enhancements- just martial arts skills.
It may not be accurate scientifically, but how is it not accurate comics wise?
Hell, it's a freakin comic! If it says he uses 90% of his brain, he does.

His enhancements provide little to no upgrade of his innate abilities whatsoever.

And he's soloed the Teen Titans. A team that's full of metahuman and herald-levelers.
IF or RD will be like a walk in the park for him.

Iron Fist, even without amping, would still be getting the majority on Richard Dragon, people tend to forget just how good he is without all that amping, hes still a EXTREMELY good MA

Heh, I never posted scans.

Originally posted by Ironic
Iron Fist, even without amping, would still be getting the majority on Richard Dragon, people tend to forget just how good he is without all that amping, hes still a EXTREMELY good MA So Richard bloody Dragon isn't good

Originally posted by iceman24567
So Richard bloody Dragon isn't good

Where did i say that? or even imply that....

Originally posted by Ironic
Where did i say that? or even imply that.... You made it seem like Iron Fist is definitely better than Richard Dragon without chi amping

Originally posted by iceman24567
You made it seem like Iron Fist is definitely better than Richard Dragon without chi amping

Oh, i see. I meant that Danny would probably get 6-7/10, not much better....

Originally posted by Ironic
Oh, i see. I meant that Danny would probably get 6-7/10, not much better.... When has Danny ever demonstrated h2h skill on the level of Dragon without chi amps?

Danny's supa powas win this for him.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
When has Danny ever demonstrated h2h skill on the level of Dragon without chi amps?

Danny's supa powas win this for him. This is what i agree with.

Originally posted by Mindset
Heh, I never posted scans.

Is there a penalty for failing to scan when promised?

Penalty is you get modded.