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Which tuffle creation is stronger?

Hello where are u people?

Well Hatachiyack is much cooler even though he doenst even have 1 line of dialouge haha but unfortunately Baby Vgeeta that fought sjj4 is more powerful.but technically Baby as he is is no match for a being like Hatachyack !!

Hatchiyak kicks Baby Vegeta's ass. SSj4 is weaker than SSj3 and so is everything in GT.

Oh wait, this isn't VG versus forum. Never knew this existed.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
SSj4 is weaker than SSj3
Um, what?

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Um, what?

I know you know this already, but....

They are newbz, dude.

Who the hell is Hatchiyak?

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Um, what?

He's a guy who thinks that if a game has a protagonist in red clothes, then it would be a clone of DMC.

Though I think he was joking about the SS4 thing. Or he just hates SS4.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I know you know this already, but....

They are newbz, dude.

It's n00b, fool 313.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Um, what?

GT is blasphemy.

Trunks becomes geeky and had trouble carrying bricks when DB Goku moved mountain-like boulders, Gohan's Mystic power up is missing, Frieza and Cell become jokes, GT Goku has trouble fighting robots that he could've wasted back in Dragon Ball, and SSj4 showed no advantage over SSj3.

Gogeta is supposed to be serious but becomes cocky in GT.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Who the hell is Hatchiyak?

Some anti-Saiyan Android that's supposed to be much stronger than Broli. It took the combined power of Vegeta, Trunks, Goku, and Gohan to destroy him.

He beats the crap out of everyone and managed to deflect a Final Flash by kicking it.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
GT is blasphemy.

Trunks becomes geeky and had trouble carrying bricks when DB Goku moved mountain-like boulders, Gohan's Mystic power up is missing, Frieza and Cell become jokes, GT Goku has trouble fighting robots that he could've wasted back in Dragon Ball, and SSj4 showed no advantage over SSj3.

Gogeta is supposed to be serious but becomes cocky in GT.

I understand your sentiments on GT perfectly, as does Ridley, but that doesn't mean that SS4 is stronger than SS3 .

Yeah, Gogeta rocked as a Super Saiyan, and bombed as a Super Saiyan 4. Though it probably was an act, his goofing around.



Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Some anti-Saiyan Android that's supposed to be much stronger than Broli. It took the combined power of Vegeta, Trunks, Goku, and Gohan to destroy him.

He beats the crap out of everyone and managed to deflect a Final Flash by kicking it.

Stronger than LSS?

~ Hatchiyak wins by virtue that Baby Vegeta isn't a Tuffle Creation per se.

Fixed.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Who the hell is Hatchiyak?
This guy.

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And yes, he is stronger than Broly. Goku himself even said it there.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I understand your sentiments on GT perfectly, as does Ridley, but that doesn't mean that SS4 is stronger than SS3 .
Yeah. If that were the case, Goku would've beaten Baby Vegeta as a SS3 the first time.

I agree that GT sucks for the reasons you posted Sin (especially the part about Gohan's Mystic power-up no longer being present and Cell being as weak as Frieza), but that's no reason to say SS3 is weaker than SS4 or that SS4 has no advantages over it when that's clearly not the case. I happened to like SS4 too (though not so much on Vegeta) because it made Goku an adult again and not a kid anymore , though SS3 was still a lot more epic as a transformation I'll admit, with the dramatic music, constant screaming when powering up, etc., whereas when Goku first became SS4 after he was done being that stupid Golden Oozaru, it got all quiet and shit. wtf

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yeah, Gogeta rocked as a Super Saiyan, and bombed as a Super Saiyan 4. Though it probably was an act, his goofing around.
Yeah, much like Gotenks's goofing, and Vegito's.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
Fixed.
I didn't even notice that typo of his at first. *shrug*

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
Fixed.
Hehe, thanks .

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
This guy.

And yes, he is stronger than Broly. Goku himself even said it there.

He said 'might' though, so we can't go by that itself. Imo, he seems to be somewhere between Cell's two perfect forms. I get the feeling that SS2 Gohan would have owned this guy.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Yeah. If that were the case, Goku would've beaten Baby Vegeta as a SS3 the first time.

Indeed. One could argue that SS3 had that time limit crap while Goku was in Kid fom, but SS4 is more powerful, simply by virtue that higher numbered transformations have always been more powerful than lower ones (SS3 > SS2 > SS). Not to mention, the power of SS4 broke Red Shenron's spell.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
I agree that GT sucks for the reasons you posted Sin (especially the part about Gohan's Mystic power-up no longer being present and Cell being as weak as Frieza), but that's no reason to say SS3 is weaker than SS4 or that SS4 has no advantages over it when that's clearly not the case. I happened to like SS4 too (though not so much on Vegeta) because it made Goku an adult again and not a kid anymore , though SS3 was still a lot more epic as a transformation I'll admit, with the dramatic music, constant screaming when powering up, etc., whereas when Goku first became SS4 after he was done being that stupid Golden Oozaru, it got all quiet and shit. wtf

You with your need for music and stuff . I liked SS2 more than SS3 to be frank, the long hair and the lack of eye-brows was ghey imo. SS4 looked just plain awesome, though I wish the fur wasn't red or wasn't there.
As for music, I don't pay attention to that in DB(Z/GT), I prefer to watch the action

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Yeah, much like Gotenks's goofing, and Vegito's.

Vegito's mehbeh, but not Gotenks' nono

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
He said 'might' though, so we can't go by that itself. Imo, he seems to be somewhere between Cell's two perfect forms. I get the feeling that SS2 Gohan would have owned this guy.
But he kicked Vegeta's Final Flash out of the way. Kicked it.

I'm not sure Cell could do that, though he did take FF head-on, having only one of his arms and wings blown off, then regenerated.

Not sure if I think Hatchiyak is actually stronger than Broly now since you mentioned the "might" part (been awhile since I actually watched the video I posted ), but even if he's not, he's still somewhere around Broly's level IMO, being above SS2 Gohan.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Indeed. One could argue that SS3 had that time limit crap while Goku was in Kid fom, but SS4 is more powerful, simply by virtue that higher numbered transformations have always been more powerful than lower ones (SS3 > SS2 > SS). Not to mention, the power of SS4 broke Red Shenron's spell.
That it did. It would've driven me ape-shit (heh) crazy if there had been a SS4 kid Goku, fighting alongside an adult SS4 Vegeta against Omega Shenron... >_>

And yeah, I forgot about that time-limit stuff they had with SS3. No such limit was present in SS4, so I guess that is one advantage SS4 has over it, aside from just being stronger in general.
Plus, SS4 Goku had that Kamehameha x 10 move (basically a red Kamehameha Wave or somethin'), but I guess that only pertains to the games doesn't it?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
You with your need for music and stuff . I liked SS2 more than SS3 to be frank, the long hair and the lack of eye-brows was ghey imo. SS4 looked just plain awesome, though I wish the fur wasn't red or wasn't there.
As for music, I don't pay attention to that in DB(Z/GT), I prefer to watch the action
But you can't deny the epicness of the SS3 theme. 131

7vfkhDiSijs

I'll admit though that the lack of eyebrows was kind of a turnoff (which ironically, I didn't notice until one of my friends pointed it out when watching the SS3 Goku episode with fat Buu for the first time), but other than that, I thought it was pretty awesome.
I agree that SS4 looked way better overall in appearance though, but I can't imagine what it would've looked like without that red fur. >.> Then again, I might just be saying that out of personal bias because of red being my favorite color.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Vegito's mehbeh, but not Gotenks' nono
I'd say Gotenks was actually the worst fusion character in terms of cockiness. To me, he goofed around waaaaaay too much, and it bothered me as much as it did Piccolo... Though some of the parts I'm thinking of might be filler. Don't remember now.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
But he kicked Vegeta's Final Flash out of the way. Kicked it.

It doesn't look like he kicked it away. Or did Vegeta use another Final Flash?

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
I'm not sure Cell could do that, though he did take FF head-on, having only one of his arms and wings blown off, then regenerated.

Not only that, but that FF was waaaay more powerful.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Not sure if I think Hatchiyak is actually stronger than Broly now since you mentioned the "might" part (been awhile since I actually watched the video I posted ), but even if he's not, he's still somewhere around Broly's level IMO, being above SS2 Gohan.

I'd say below the Broly that fought SS2 Gohan and around the same as the Broly that fought Goku and the others. Though Broly could get stronger as time passed .

Also, wasn't Teen SS2 Gohan stronger than Adult SS2 Gohan? If not, TSS2 Gohan was definitely more badass.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
That it did. It would've driven me ape-shit (heh) crazy if there had been a SS4 kid Goku, fighting alongside an adult SS4 Vegeta against Omega Shenron... >_>

, that would have been funny. Though in that case, we wouldn't have had the 'walking' joke that was SS4 Gogeta; but all things considered, Gogeta's always been my favorite fusion, so I like that he was the most powerful DB character EVAR!

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
And yeah, I forgot about that time-limit stuff they had with SS3. No such limit was present in SS4, so I guess that is one advantage SS4 has over it, aside from just being stronger in general.
Plus, SS4 Goku had that Kamehameha x 10 move (basically a red Kamehameha Wave or somethin'), but I guess that only pertains to the games doesn't it?

True say.

No. I'm pretty sure he used it in the anime. It was a kick-ass move, with an after-effect. The best version of Kamehameha that Goku had.

I'll admit, a lot of those ki moves look a heck of a lot better in BT3. I loved the way Final Kamehameha/Flash was animated (with the electricity around and everything). Big Bang Kamehameha and BBK x100 were pure WIN.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
But you can't deny the epicness of the SS3 theme. 131

7vfkhDiSijs

True. I can't deny its epicness. You win this round sir .

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
I'll admit though that the lack of eyebrows was kind of a turnoff (which ironically, I didn't notice until one of my friends pointed it out when watching the SS3 Goku episode with fat Buu for the first time), but other than that, I thought it was pretty awesome.
I agree that SS4 looked way better overall in appearance though, but I can't imagine what it would've looked like without that red fur. >.> Then again, I might just be saying that out of personal bias because of red being my favorite color.

The hair should have been shorter imo. Around shoulder length at best. SS3 reminds me of Raditz, and I hated that fool.

Like SS4 Gogeta ?

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
I'd say Gotenks was actually the worst fusion character in terms of cockiness. To me, he goofed around waaaaaay too much, and it bothered me as much as it did Piccolo... Though some of the parts I'm thinking of might be filler. Don't remember now.

Agreed. Though Gotenks was the first one to use SS3 313
Gogeta (SS) was the best fusion period. Took down his target without so much as a scratch, and in seconds to boot. I wish he had appeared in DBZ instead of Gotenks.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
It doesn't look like he kicked it away. Or did Vegeta use another Final Flash?
I forget. Like I said, it's been awhile since I actually watched the video, but I do remember Hatchiyak kicking away the Final Flash like it was nothing.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Not only that, but that FF was waaaay more powerful.
Why? Because it took Vegeta longer to charge that one up? It was the first time he had ever used Final Flash (on screen) to be fair. Once he got stronger later on, it took him less time to power up to use it. Much like with Piccolo and the Special Beam Cannon.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I'd say below the Broly that fought SS2 Gohan and around the same as the Broly that fought Goku and the others. Though Broly could get stronger as time passed .
Which was ghey IMO.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Also, wasn't Teen SS2 Gohan stronger than Adult SS2 Gohan? If not, TSS2 Gohan was definitely more badass.
Yeah, he was more powerful. Mystic Gohan is the only version more powerful than his SS2 teen form.
And I agree that he's more badass than his SS2 adult form, definitely...

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
, that would have been funny. Though in that case, we wouldn't have had the 'walking' joke that was SS4 Gogeta; but all things considered, Gogeta's always been my favorite fusion, so I like that he was the most powerful DB character EVAR!
Eh.. I guess I'm all right with that too, even if he wasn't exactly my favorite, but it still makes sense.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
True say.

No. I'm pretty sure he used it in the anime. It was a kick-ass move, with an after-effect. The best version of Kamehameha that Goku had.

I'll admit, a lot of those ki moves look a heck of a lot better in BT3. I loved the way Final Kamehameha/Flash was animated (with the electricity around and everything). Big Bang Kamehameha and BBK x100 were pure WIN.
I concur... on all of that. Couldn't agree more.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
The hair should have been shorter imo. Around shoulder length at best. SS3 reminds me of Raditz, and I hated that fool.

Like SS4 Gogeta ?
Agreed once again, and yeah. I guess so.

Heh. SS3 Goku reminded me of Raditz too, who I also disliked. He was Goku's brother though, so I guess it would make sense for one of Goku's transformations to resemble him to some extent. Or that may have just been coincidence.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Agreed. Though Gotenks was the first one to use SS3 313
Gogeta (SS) was the best fusion period. Took down his target without so much as a scratch, and in seconds to boot. I wish he had appeared in DBZ instead of Gotenks.
I wish that had happened too... and that he actually killed Buu without goofing off like he did Janemba. That would've rocked, more-so than that Spirit Bomb shit, though I admit the Super Spirit Bomb was a pretty cool attack in general (game-wise).

SSJ4 had ****ing EYE-LINER.

How can you say he looks better than SSJ3!?

Hatchiyak was around Cell level, and Bebi Vegeta was able to knock down SSj3 Goku, and Goku even said that Bebi Vegeta had ki much greater then any force he has seen. I say Bebi Vegeta takes this.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
I forget. Like I said, it's been awhile since I actually watched the video, but I do remember Hatchiyak kicking away the Final Flash like it was nothing.

All I saw was Hatch's leg on his side and then the Final Flash hits. I couldn't make out if he kicked it away or not. Though I did see Hatch in the same pose after the smoke cleared.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Why? Because it took Vegeta longer to charge that one up? It was the first time he had ever used Final Flash (on screen) to be fair. Once he got stronger later on, it took him less time to power up to use it. Much like with Piccolo and the Special Beam Cannon.

Or he just put in less power in this one. Besides, he was in Super Saiyan form in this fight. He used the ASS form () for that Final Flash against Perfect Cell.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Which was ghey IMO.

Well, he did have a limit, he had to release some of the energy out iirc. So it's not all that bad .

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Yeah, he was more powerful. Mystic Gohan is the only version more powerful than his SS2 teen form.
And I agree that he's more badass than his SS2 adult form, definitely...

Great. So then I still think that Teen SS2 Gohan would beat this Hatchiyack dude.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Eh.. I guess I'm all right with that too, even if he wasn't exactly my favorite, but it still makes sense.

Well, SS4 Gogeta had a different personality and all (or at least he acted that way), but he's still Gogeta, who is badass. Though tbh, I do prefer the SS form.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Heh. SS3 Goku reminded me of Raditz too, who I also disliked. He was Goku's brother though, so I guess it would make sense for one of Goku's transformations to resemble him to some extent. Or that may have just been coincidence.

Probably just coincidence. Though if Raditz had turned into a Super Saiyan, I wonder whether it would have looked like SS3 or not (barring the lack of eyebrows). Would SS3 have increased his hair length even more ?

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
I wish that had happened too... and that he actually killed Buu without goofing off like he did Janemba. That would've rocked, more-so than that Spirit Bomb shit, though I admit the Super Spirit Bomb was a pretty cool attack in general (game-wise).

True. Super Buu would have been toast if Gogeta had arrived.
Though Vegito needed to get everyone back and all, and that acid thing was just a stupid plot device to get back Vegeta and Goku. So his goofing off is justified. Had Gogeta been in that situation, he would have tried to get everyone back, though I don't know if he would have goofed off.

Potara fusion shouldn't have been permanent imo. It shouldn't have had a time limit either, so it could be defused at will.

I agree about the Super Spirit Bomb.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Or he just put in less power in this one.
That just seems like a baseless assumption.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Besides, he was in Super Saiyan form in this fight. He used the ASS form () for that Final Flash against Perfect Cell.
How do you know he wasn't in ascended Super Saiyan form? Teen Gohan was already a SSJ when they fought Hatchiyak, so Vegeta would be able to go ASSJ at that point, and he's definitely not the type that would hold back.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Well, he did have a limit, he had to release some of the energy out iirc. So it's not all that bad .
Meh, I guess.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Great. So then I still think that Teen SS2 Gohan would beat this Hatchiyack dude.
It took the combined energy of Goku, Gohan, Trunks, Vegeta, and whoever else I didn't mention for them to beat Hatchiyak, just as it did Broly in his first movie.

So I guess SS2 teen Gohan would beat Broly too right?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Well, SS4 Gogeta had a different personality and all (or at least he acted that way), but he's still Gogeta, who is badass. Though tbh, I do prefer the SS form.
Same. I prefer the quick and persistent SS Gogeta over that goofy red-head version any day of the week.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Probably just coincidence. Though if Raditz had turned into a Super Saiyan, I wonder whether it would have looked like SS3 or not (barring the lack of eyebrows). Would SS3 have increased his hair length even more ?
Heh, maybe. If it was just regular Super Saiyan though, I doubt he would've lost the eyebrows.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
True. Super Buu would have been toast if Gogeta had arrived.
Though Vegito needed to get everyone back and all, and that acid thing was just a stupid plot device to get back Vegeta and Goku. So his goofing off is justified. Had Gogeta been in that situation, he would have tried to get everyone back, though I don't know if he would have goofed off.
Yep, it depends I guess.

And yeah, the acid thing that caused Vegito to split apart was ghey... Wish they had shown him fight Kid Buu canonically, and beat the snot out of the annoying pink kid.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Potara fusion shouldn't have been permanent imo. It shouldn't have had a time limit either, so it could be defused at will.
Assuming you could use the same earrings to fuse again if you wanted?