Mace vs Obi-Wan vs Anakin!!!!

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Lewis Kenobi
In Revenge of the Sith,

If Mace Windu, Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin all fought a huge lightsaber battle!

Who would come out on top????
I think it would be one of the biggest battles in the Galaxy at the time.

My guess would be that Obi-Wan would win just.
It would be very close but i think he was in his prime then.

What do you think?[

Jaeh.is.Awesome
I vote for Obi-Wan just because he's awesome. Haha.

But I think Mace would take all, but Anakin and Obi-Wan would put up a fight.


Wrong thread again mate, we have a Versus subforum in the Literature and Expanded universe forum...

tombo671
obi wan.

Paola
moving...

SIDIOUS 66
Mace of course... Like duh.

Slash_KMC
Edit: This user deleted his post because he had not read the original post properly.

Council#13
Mace!

DARTH POWER
Probably Mace. But Anakin has a chance(he is a level 9 saber duelist up there with Mace, Yoda and Sidious according to Nick Gillard). Obi Wan has no chance.

Elite Hunter
The "X factor" in this thread is if Obiwan and Anakin decide to team up on Mace given their bond with each other.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Probably Mace. But Anakin has a chance(he is a level 9 saber duelist up there with Mace, Yoda and Sidious according to Nick Gillard). Obi Wan has no chance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwy412nttI

Eminence
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwy412nttI Rofl, nice.

DARTH POWER
whoever posted me the link of the ROTS fight doesnt realise that Obiwan has no chance here because hes got no chance of defeating Mace, even if he does defeat Anakin. Anakin on the other hand has a shot at defeating ObiWan or Mace.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
whoever posted me the link of the ROTS fight doesnt realise that Obiwan has no chance here because hes got no chance of defeating Mace, even if he does defeat Anakin. Anakin on the other hand has a shot at defeating ObiWan or Mace. Mace's Vapaad is kinda moot going against Obi-Wan's Soresu.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
whoever posted me the link of the ROTS fight doesnt realise that Obiwan has no chance here because hes got no chance of defeating Mace, even if he does defeat Anakin. Anakin on the other hand has a shot at defeating ObiWan or Mace.

WTF????? How does Anakin have a shot at beating Mace when Obi Wan doesn't, even though Obi Wan beat Anakin so therefore if Anakin can do it then Obi Wan should to. Prove that Anakin has a chance at the man that beat Sidious, who VADER is only 80% of.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
WTF????? How does Anakin have a shot at beating Mace when Obi Wan doesn't, even though Obi Wan beat Anakin so therefore if Anakin can do it then Obi Wan should to. Prove that Anakin has a chance at the man that beat Sidious, who VADER is only 80% of. Stop using A>B>C. Obi-Wan beat Anakin due to circumstances, the same doesn't apply in a fight against Mace.

mattatom
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Stop using A>B>C. Obi-Wan beat Anakin due to circumstances, the same doesn't apply in a fight against Mace.
Unless Obi Wan cuts Mace's arm off then Anakin lightening's him through a window. Possible since he never specified the arena.

Elsewise I agree Obi Wan beat Anakin because of faults on Anakin's side and smarts on Obi Wan's side.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
WTF????? How does Anakin have a shot at beating Mace when Obi Wan doesn't, even though Obi Wan beat Anakin so therefore if Anakin can do it then Obi Wan should to. Prove that Anakin has a chance at the man that beat Sidious, who VADER is only 80% of.

have you forgotten Anakin beat Dooku when ObiWan had no chance against Dooku at all??!!!

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Mace's Vapaad is kinda moot going against Obi-Wan's Soresu.

I agree. In sabers mace would get frustrated trying to get thorew obiwans defences. But Mace seems to be more powerful with the force.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I agree. In sabers mace would get frustrated trying to get thorew obiwans defences. But Mace seems to be more powerful with the force.

What? Didn't you just say that Obi Wan stands no chance vs Mace?? Or are you being sarcastic...

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
have you forgotten Anakin beat Dooku when ObiWan had no chance against Dooku at all??!!!

He was "in teh zone"

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Stop using A>B>C. Obi-Wan beat Anakin due to circumstances, the same doesn't apply in a fight against Mace.

So Anakin stands a chance vs Mace but Obi Wan doesn't? Explain how.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
So Anakin stands a chance vs Mace but Obi Wan doesn't? Explain how. Woah. You interpreted what I said as a conclusion on this match? I was simply responding to your use of A>B>C logic and reminding you of the circumstances of the Mustafar duel. How did you draw "Anakin would beat Mace" from that?

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
What? Didn't you just say that Obi Wan stands no chance vs Mace?? Or are you being sarcastic...

im still saying that Obiwan has no chance against Mace because Mace is more powerful with the force. i just said Mace would have a hard time in "Sabers" getting past Obi1's soresu defences. theres no contradiction there if you READ!



Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
He was "in teh zone"

and why cant he be in the zone for this fight??



Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
So Anakin stands a chance vs Mace but Obi Wan doesn't? Explain how.

Because Anakin has the Power to Beat Mace. Obi1 doesnt. Same way Anakin beat Dooku, but Obi1 culd never! Not even on his best day! what do you not understand? Mace himself says Anakin is Arguably the MOST POWERFUL JEDI ALIVE!

Eminence
Mace wins.

Hewhoknowsall
@Darth Power

He beat Dooku because he was "in teh zone". He isn't "in teh zone" in EVERY fight, just like how he won't be as unfocused as he was vs Obi Wan in EVERY fight. If he were, then he'd still lose. Why? Mace uses vaapad, so he'd use Anakin's anger against him. So really, being "in teh zone" won't help him out that much.

Lord Lucien
Wait, which Anakin is this? Dark or Light?

Slash_KMC
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Wait, which Anakin is this? Dark or Light?

Dark side Anakin doesn't exist, he was renamed Darth Vader the moment he went to the Dark Side.

Lord Lucien
ToMAYto-ToMAHto.

Kodiak
Obi-Wan... cuz he's awesome

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
@Darth Power

He beat Dooku because he was "in teh zone". He isn't "in teh zone" in EVERY fight, just like how he won't be as unfocused as he was vs Obi Wan in EVERY fight. If he were, then he'd still lose. Why? Mace uses vaapad, so he'd use Anakin's anger against him. So really, being "in teh zone" won't help him out that much.

theres no evidence Vapaad would work on Light Side in the zone" Anakin. Since he wasnt a darksider. and even though he had a certain amount of rage fueling him, he was still a light sider and had a lot of goodness fuleing him as well.

Red Nemesis

DARTH POWER
Precisely so the Super Conducting Loop would be Moot against Light Side "In the Zone" Anakin. Therfore UNLESS Mace finishes Anakin quickly he will get in trouble like Dooku did, as the ROTS Novel makes it clear that Anakin would just get more and more powerful as the fight goes on, thanks to his Unlimited Force Reserves.

Red Nemesis
Mace wouldn't need the 'loop. He is already faster, stronger and more skilled than Anakin. The loop only comes into play if he is weaker than his opponent. He isn't.

(I could also argue that 'in the zone' does tap the DS because Dooku notes that 'teh zone' is just the Sith technique of rage.)

DARTH POWER
How exactly was Mace Faster and Stronger than Anakin?? ROTS novel states Anakin to be the Strongest, the Fastest. Mace himself says Anakin was "Arguably the Most Powerful Jedi Alive, and still getting stronger!!"

Dark Rendezvous called Mace Dookus equal in Lightsaber combat.

And Dookus comment about Anakin was that he had "the Gift of Rage" and that he was "Half Sith already".. Only Half. But he was still on the Light Side. So at most you could make the argument that Anakin was a Neutral Force User.

Eminence
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
How exactly was Mace Faster and Stronger than Anakin?? ROTS novel states Anakin to be the Strongest, the Fastest."Of his generation." Generation = 25 years.

Don't get so excited. Sheesh.

Now I know you aren't going to use an ABC argument here.

... No.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Eminence
"Of his generation." Generation = 25 years.

No it was "The Most Powerful of his Generation... PERHAPS ANY GENERATION" then the Fastest. The Strongest.. were 2 seperate statements. Later Dooku descibed Anakin as a "Destroyer Droid with a Lightsaber. Impossibly Powerful." When was Mace ever described as being that Strong or Powerful?!

Originally posted by Eminence
Don't get so excited. Sheesh.

No ones getting excited. Of course Anakin really wasnt the most powerful jedi. Yoda was clearly. But that statement added to Ki-Adi-Mundi and Plo Koon saying Anakin is the Jedi with the best chance of surving an encounter with a Sith Lord, shows that youll have to actually bring some proof that Mace was faster and Stronger than Anakin.

Originally posted by Eminence
Now I know you aren't going to use an ABC argument here.

No ABC wont work. Especially since Dooku had a good chance of taking Anakin early in the fight, if not distracted by Obi1. But again its just adds to the fact that you will need to prove Mace is more Powerful.

Originally posted by Eminence
... No.

Great reasoning. Oh wait, you didnt give any reasoning. Its simple logic. Anakin hadnt embraced the Dark Side. Maybe Half embraced it at most. But he was still clearly a user of the Light Side as well. So Loop would be pretty moot against sum1 whose only Half embraced his Dark Side feelings. At most he was a Neutral Force User.

Eminence
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No it was "The Most Powerful of his Generation... PERHAPS ANY GENERATION" then the Fastest. The Strongest.. were 2 seperate statements."The strongest, the fastest" is tied to "the most powerful." So it would mean "the strongest , the fastest . Perhaps of any generation."

And FYI, the "perhaps" makes it rather clear that this isn't an omniscient narrator. Other members here have established that several parts of the book use a third-person limited perspective.

See below.

Hence the double exclamation points and question marks.

Then don't post statements indicating that he is as if they'll do something for your case.

In Shatterpoint, he lands six blows on Kar Vastor before the man can even blink; Vastor being someone who Mace believed to have raw power on the level of Yoda and Anakin. He also manages to keep up with Darth Sidious long enough for Vaapad to take effect; Sidious being someone who was able to blitz three of the greatest swordsman the Order had ever produced, one of whom took down General Grievous alone.

So, faster.

In the battle of Dantooine, he punches holes through armored super battle droids. A sequence in Shatterpoint showed that his grip was strong enough to snap bone. Another sequence, taking place in the aforementioned brawl with Vastor, has he and Kar charging and slamming into each other so hard and fast that a.) they're suspended in the air for several seconds, fighting on the way down, and b.) they sent lightning through the jungle.

So, stronger.

Mace was a master of Juyo, which requires a "high-level mastery" of other forms. Before TPM, he had created, perfected, and mastered his own deviation of Juyo, Vaapad. As of TPM, even his apprentice had learned and mastered it to the point that Mace believed she had surpassed him. This being before he turns forty.

So, more skilled.

And controlled use of Force-power? In the new CWC, he pushes an AT-TE off of a cliff. In Shatterpoint, he nudges a tipping steamcrawler back into place while stabilizing several hundred tons of loose earth. On his back.

So, more powerful .

See the above, although prior to this I'd never said Mace is more powerful.

Prove it, and for Christ's sake stop taking things so literally. "Half Sith" doesn't really mean "half Sith."

No. What you've either intentionally left out or somehow missed is that Dooku also noted that Anakin was holding himself back for fear of opening the "furnace" inside him; basically, for fear of succumbing to the dark side again, as he did with the Tuskens on Tatooine. When Anakin kills Dooku he is very clearly in the throes of the dark side, so assuming he manages to get there against Mace, Vaapad will kick into effect. And then it's game over.

DARTH POWER
All youve shown is that Mace has displayed better feats. Which he would have as Anakins power grew over time... It was only at its peak for a short time before he lost to Obi-Wan and lost a lot of his power.

It still doesnt negate the fact that Anakin as of ROTS, was described by Dooku(whose fought Mace in the past) as IMPOSSIBLY Powerful, a Destroyer Droid with a Lightsaber, and was astonished by Anakin's Pure Physical Strength on top of his Unlimited Force Reserves. He also displayed blindingly fast speed in that fight.

He was considered by MANY on the Jedi Council(including Mace) to be among the Most Powerful of Jedis, among those most able to survive an encounter with the Sith Lord. And youve already mentioned how Mace believed Anakin to have the same kind of Raw Power Yoda has. Clearly Above the Raw Power of Mace Windu.

And as for the Force in the ROTS game Anakin impressively levitates and throws a Huge Jedi Temple Statue. And even if we say Mace has better control and use of the Force, well that didnt help Dooku against Anakin once he got into the fight and was all over Dooku. And I dnt think anyone would argue that Dooku is AT LEAST as good with the Force as Mace, if not better.

Technical Skill- well I Vapaad is the deadliest of forms overall. and is the source of a lot of Mace's Power and Speed.
However Anakin competely Mastered Djem So which had Powerful Blows(perfect for Anakin) but specifically designed to apply these to SWORDPLAY. As for Mace being a master of multiple forms... by RODV Vader was trained in all forms of combat. As this wasnt long after ROTS Anakin must have been trained Most forms at least. He displayed good use of Ataro and Shien, not to mention he knew Obiwans Soresu moves inside out after all the sparring with him.


On top of all this we know Nick Gillard called Anakin by ROTS a level 9 swordsman up there with Mace, Yoda and Sidious.

But ill give in to you about the "LOOP" LOL! But the truth is theres not enough evidence to suggest how Vapaad's Loop would work on a Light Sider with a LOT of Rage.

Eminence
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
All youve shown is that Mace has displayed better feats.But of course, just because he's demonstrated superior strength, speed, skill, and power doesn't mean he has it.

Logic ftw.

And he still never demonstrated anything that would put him on Mace's level.

Yay.

And he doesn't have the control to regularly do anything useful with it. He couldn't even overpower Obi-Wan.

Oh, but it's just a feat. It doesn't mean anything.

Right?

Dooku didn't use the Force against Anakin. At all.

Plenty would.

Also, Dooku doesn't have Vaapad.

Where was it stated that he'd mastered it?

Anakin was still a master of one at best.

Do you read my posts?

...

A light sider with "a lot of rage" is using the dark side. Obi-Wan did it, Luke did it, Anakin made a hobby out of it.

This is my last post on the matter, because you're simply hopeless.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by DARTH POWER

But ill give in to you about the "LOOP" LOL! But the truth is theres not enough evidence to suggest how Vapaad's Loop would work on a Light Sider with a LOT of Rage. ..........Cuz you know, rage doesn't have anything to do with the Dark Side.

Elite Hunter
Originally posted by Eminence
Where was it stated that he'd mastered it?
'
Dooku noted that the boy (Anakin) was a Djem So stylist, and as fine a one as Dooku had ever seen

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
..........Cuz you know, rage doesn't have anything to do with the Dark Side.

Yes it does. But Anakin hadnt embraced the Dark Side yet. You cant tell me ALL his Powerf came from the Dark Side when he was still a light sider. Id call him a Neutral Force user personally. What % exactly of the Dark Side and Light Side he was using is anyone's guess. and is probably a pretty pointless argument. But I would say he was probably still using more of the Light Side, otherwise he would have already fallen to the Dark Side.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Eminence

And he still never demonstrated anything that would put him on Mace's level.

He only had one film to do so.. He was getting stronger throughout the clone wars, and was at his peak for a very short time.
And yet he still demonstrated IMMENSE POWER, SPEED AND PHYSICAL STRENGTH against Count Dooku, who was One of the Most Powerful Jedis in its 25000 year history, and an EVEN MORE POWERFUL Sith Lord.

Not to Mention how Agen Kolar, and Ki-Adi-Mundi and Mace Windu all uninamously agreed that Anakin was POSSIBLY already the Most Powerful Jedi, and the One Most Likely to survive a Fight with a Sith Lord.

Originally posted by Eminence
And he doesn't have the control to regularly do anything useful with it. He couldn't even overpower Obi-Wan.

he wasnt "In the Zone" then was he?? his mental state was totally screwed up. but he still matched Obi1 in a force push, and Obiwan has a MEAN Force Push.. Check out how he pushed General Greivous in ROTS and Destroyer Droids in the Animation.


Originally posted by Eminence
Dooku didn't use the Force against Anakin. At all.

Because he didnt get a chance with Anakin all Over Him.


Originally posted by Eminence
Anakin was still a master of one at best. .

The evidence points to the contrary. As he was trained in Juyo by RODV, for which you need to be a High Level Master of Multiple forms, as you yourself have poinnted out.


Originally posted by Eminence
This is my last post on the matter, because you're simply hopeless.

Whatever. Thats the usual response I expect from Mace fanboys. You just cant take it if you even suggest anyone else might be as powerful as him.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He only had one film to do so.. He was getting stronger throughout the clone wars, and was at his peak for a very short time.
And yet he still demonstrated IMMENSE POWER, SPEED AND PHYSICAL STRENGTH against Count Dooku, who was One of the Most Powerful Jedis in its 25000 year history, and an EVEN MORE POWERFUL Sith Lord. Lol, "one film to do so" doesn't cut it.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Not to Mention how Agen Kolar, and Ki-Adi-Mundi and Mace Windu all uninamously agreed that Anakin was POSSIBLY already the Most Powerful Jedi, and the One Most Likely to survive a Fight with a Sith Lord. Possibly.

Something rather negated by the fact that Mace survived Palaptine. Vapaad+Shatterpoint+Mace>Anakin using the Dark.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Lol, "one film to do so" doesn't cut it.

of course it does! Anakin was at his peak for a very short time. Dindt even last the whole movie considering how his mental state deteriorated throughout the film.
and yet his still demonstrated immense power over Dooku. Was Mace ever able to OverPower Dooku that badly? No.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Possibly.

Something rather negated by the fact that Mace survived Palaptine. Vapaad+Shatterpoint+Mace>Anakin using the Dark.

OK I can do that. Compeltey Mastered Djem So + Unlimited Force Reserves + Chosen One + Light Side Anakin > Mace

Look Anakin wasnt a Dark Sider when he was a Jedi, and Overpowered Count Dooku. Something Mace was never able to do. Anyone who can overpower Dooku that badly making his "mastery of swordplay irrelevant" and his "knowledge of the force a JOKE" is AT LEAST as Powerful as Mace Windu. But most probably More Powerful.

Slash_KMC
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
OK I can do that. Compeltey Mastered Djem So + Unlimited Force Reserves + Chosen One + Light Side Anakin > Mace

Look Anakin wasnt a Dark Sider when he was a Jedi, and Overpowered Count Dooku. Something Mace was never able to do. Anyone who can overpower Dooku that badly making his "mastery of swordplay irrelevant" and his "knowledge of the force a JOKE" is AT LEAST as Powerful as Mace Windu. But most probably More Powerful.

Ok I can do that.

Look Mace wasnt a Dark Sider when he was a Jedi, and Overpowered Darth Sidious. Something Anakin couldn't do ("You have to be either Mace or Yoda to compete with Sidious"wink. Anyone who can overpower Sidious that badly making his "Kills 3 Jedi Masters in seconds with lightsaber" and his "most powerful Sith Lord fact a JOKE" is AT LEAST as Powerful as Anakin Skywalker. But most probably More Powerful.

Oh, by the way, if you say that Mace had the best lightsaber form to fight Sidious (Vaapaad > Dark Side), then it can be said that Anakin had the best lightsaber form to fight Dooku. (Djem So > Makashi)

Eminence
eek!

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
of course it does! Anakin was at his peak for a very short time. Dindt even last the whole movie considering how his mental state deteriorated throughout the film.
and yet his still demonstrated immense power over Dooku. Was Mace ever able to OverPower Dooku that badly? No.



OK I can do that. Compeltey Mastered Djem So + Unlimited Force Reserves + Chosen One + Light Side Anakin > Mace

Look Anakin wasnt a Dark Sider when he was a Jedi, and Overpowered Count Dooku. Something Mace was never able to do. Anyone who can overpower Dooku that badly making his "mastery of swordplay irrelevant" and his "knowledge of the force a JOKE" is AT LEAST as Powerful as Mace Windu. But most probably More Powerful. What Slash said.


"Mastered Djem So"----cool.
"Unlimited Force Reserves"---won't mean much when Mace whoops his ass.
"Chosen One"---who cares?
"Light Side Anakin"---going down.

LS Anakin is NOT a god. Coulda--woulda--shoulda--ain't.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
"Kills 3 Jedi Masters in seconds with lightsaber"

Which Mace had NO POWER to stop, didnt even have the reflexes to react in time. Clear evidence that if the other 3 Jedis wernt there and Sidious went straight for Mace first he could have Killed Mace quite early on, before Mace even had a chance to Sink into Vapaad.

and his "most powerful Sith Lord fact a JOKE"

Hardly made a joke out of him. They were dead equal(once Mace had sunk into Vapaad) according to the novel until Mace gained a tactical advantage. Thats why he says to Sidious "You fight like a jedi, but your no jedi.." Anakin on the other hand Was A Jedi and just had 3 years experience constantly fighting in the Clone Wars.


Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Oh, by the way, if you say that Mace had the best lightsaber form to fight Sidious (Vaapaad > Dark Side), then it can be said that Anakin had the best lightsaber form to fight Dooku. (Djem So > Makashi)

Totally different things. and you know it. Vapaad used its Metaphysical properties to equal Sidious in Power and Speed. Without which Mace would not have stood a chance. Hardly comparable to a clash of techniques as Djem So and Makashi.

Besides just because Makashi doesnt generate enough Kinetic energy to take on Makshi Head On, doesnt mean anything. The Makashi user can still deflect and parry which is what its designed for. Read the novel, Dooku gave Anakin a taunt and then was parrying off Anakins(Djem So) attacks off comftorbly.

The Novel makes it very clear that the reason Dooku was losing SO BADLY (in the end) the reason Anakin made his Mastery of Swordplay "Irrelevant", and his Knowledge of the Force "A JOKE" was Anakin simply had WAYYYYY too much Raw Power + Unlimited Force Reserves. And actually kept getting Stronger.. Probably more RAW power than even Yoda.

Thats why Mace says himself "Skywalker is ARGUABLY the Most Powerful Jedi Alive"...
Even though we are told later that Yoda was the "Most Devastatingly Powerful"..... Anakin still may well have had More RAW Power at his disposal.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Lord Lucien


"Unlimited Force Reserves"---won't mean much when Mace whoops his ass.

Really? The fact that he has wayyy more Raw Power at his Disposal+Unlimited Reserves wnt mean much when hes fighting Mace??

Originally posted by Lord Lucien

"Light Side Anakin"---going down.

Doubt it. How Much More Powerul than Dooku do you think Mace is exactly???

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
LS Anakin is NOT a god.

Neither is Mace. But Only Anakin has been even suggested to be the Most Powerful Jedi in any respect. And Possibly the Strongest and Fastest. Not Mace.

Borbarad
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Which Mace had NO POWER to stop

How should he have stopped Sidious? By walking straight through Fisto in order to stop the Sith Lords onslaught? I'd love to know how you imagine Mace could have acted...



A statement that contradicts the movie which shows that Mace is the only Jedi in Sidious office that shows any reaction to the Sith Lord that comes flying at the team. The other three didn't move, apparently because not having any time to do that.



a) This is nothing but speculation.
b) Considering the fact that Mace did survive, even when not completely sunken into Vaapad, shows, that he is very well able to do the job on his own. Notice how the RotS novel elaborates on this and pretty much states that, once sunken into Vaapad, Mace was free to take action against Sidious force wise since he didn't have to focus on the lightsaber action any longer, which worked based on nothing but automatism.

So your argument is trash.




How does any of that matter for a hypothetical confrontation between Mace and Anakin? Mace overpowered (Lucas own word) Darth Sidious. A feat that Anakin couldn't even dream to archive. What has Anakin done to put him on an equal level? Let's see: He killed Count Dooku, while residing in a completely unique metaphysical state-of-being ("the zone"wink and while confronting an enemy who was (once more according to the RotS novel) told to let Anakin win the fight.

If that is the only measure of Anakin's supposed uber duelling capacities, we can just say that you have no proof that Anakin is anywhere close to the saber greats (Sidious, Yoda, Mace, Dooku) in terms of dueling skill under regular circumstances.




There was no "clash of techniques". Did Anakin defeat Dooku through technique? No. He overpowered him with brute force and not finesse. And to nail it onto your forehead once again: He did overcome an opponent that was comanded to lose to him, which hardly is a noteworthy feat.
And for the "metaphysical properties" of Vapaad, you might want to read "Shatterpoint". You will eventually stumble upon the fact that Mace is never fighting without that certain technique which greatly boosts his (already formidable) combat abilities.



First: The story makes it pretty clear that because of Dooku's taunt Anakin allowed his emotions - that he supressed before - to take over. That unleashed a nice part of his - otherwise unrealized - potential which then allowed him to defeat Dooku. The point is that you can't assume this will happen in any fight Anakin participates in. Notice how even Dooku himself kicked Anakin's sorry ass across the place just seconds before he taunted him and - in turn - was defeated.



Which doesn't matter because Anakin is clearly not able to use this power in a controlled fashion. This is evident, given that he's not able to overpower Kenobi. Yet you want to tell us that he's somehow able to overcome somebody more skilled then Kenobi in terms of raw lightsaber abilities and more powerful when it comes to force mastery?

So yes. Lucien is quite right: Anakin having access (via a plot-device) to more raw force powers doesn't matter because he can't control it. He can't beat Kenobi in a force contest. He can't beat Kenobi in a saber-contest. Bottom line: Given that he can't do that, how would he be able to do it to somebody more powerful and more skilled then Kenobi? I'd love to see your explanation - maybe one that isn't built around a plot-device which is just there to get rid of Dooku.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Borbarad

How does any of that matter for a hypothetical confrontation between Mace and Anakin? Mace overpowered (Lucas own word) Darth Sidious. A feat that Anakin couldn't even dream to archive.

Completely irrelevant as Mace would never be as strong or as fast against Anakin as he was against Sidious.

Otherwise by your completely irrelevant A>B>C argument Mace is more powerful than Yoda as Yoda culdnt overpower Sidious but Mace did.

Originally posted by Borbarad
What has Anakin done to put him on an equal level? Let's see: He killed Count Dooku, while residing in a completely unique metaphysical state-of-being ("the zone"wink and while confronting an enemy who was (once more according to the RotS novel) told to let Anakin win the fight..

A state he may be able to replicate in a hypothetical fight against Mace. However Mace culd never replicate the Speed and Power he had against Sidious (due to the Superconducting loop in that fight), in a fight against Anakin.
And Dooku changed his mind about losing to Anakin once he realised how dangerous he was, and that it was him controlling the fight not Dooku. He had decided to kill Anakin.

Originally posted by Borbarad
If that is the only measure of Anakin's supposed uber duelling capacities, we can just say that you have no proof that Anakin is anywhere close to the saber greats (Sidious, Yoda, Mace, Dooku) in terms of dueling skill under regular circumstances.]..

Anakin beat Dooku fair and Square. Deal with it. And Nick Gillard has already put Anakins duelling skills up there with Sidious, Yoda and Mace. So I dnt knw where your getting your information from.




Originally posted by Borbarad
First: The story makes it pretty clear that because of Dooku's taunt Anakin allowed his emotions - that he supressed before - to take over. That unleashed a nice part of his - otherwise unrealized - potential which then allowed him to defeat Dooku. The point is that you can't assume this will happen in any fight Anakin participates in.].]..

and theres nothing to suggest he culdnt replicate that feat again.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Notice how even Dooku himself kicked Anakin's sorry ass across the place just seconds before he taunted him and - in turn - was defeated..].]..

That shows Dooku was winning.. it doesnt show he already won! And iv already admitted that Both Dooku and Mace would have a decent chance of defeating Anakin early in a fight, as Anakin gets stronger as the fight goes on.



Originally posted by Borbarad
Which doesn't matter because Anakin is clearly not able to use this power in a controlled fashion. This is evident, given that he's not able to overpower Kenobi. Yet you want to tell us that he's somehow able to overcome somebody more skilled then Kenobi in terms of raw lightsaber abilities and more powerful when it comes to force mastery?

He used his power in a controlled fashion against Count Dooku in ROTS, and in the animated movie.

And your comparing the Kenobi fight??!! thats a HUGE BLUNDER in your argument! and the worst application of the A>B>C argument.

Anakin and Kenobi knew each others moves inside out. They knew each other "more intimately than lovers" and fought like "two halves of the same warrior"
Mace doesnt know Anakins moves inside out, nor does Anakin know his. Hence a completely different fight. Plus your picking the fight in which Anakin had the LEAST focus and control over his power. Very Poor Argument.

Originally posted by Borbarad
maybe one that isn't built around a plot-device which is just there to get rid of Dooku.

And Mace beating Sidious was a plot device as Anakins turning to the Dark Side.. so what?? It HAPPENED!! Very Poor Arguments from someone claiming that im talking trash. Very Weak.

Eminence
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Completely irrelevant as Mace would never be as strong or as fast against Anakin as he was against Sidious.He doesn't need to be that fast to be faster than Anakin.

lolwut

1.) You were the one arguing that just because Anakin beat Dooku he could beat Mace, because Dooku's Force powers were greater than Mace's. Hypocrite.

2.) You've also been arguing that Anakin had a chance against Sidious, which is addressed directly above. So whether Nai is aware of it or not, it is relevant.

If Mace kidnaps and apparently terrifies one of the closest men to him in the galaxy, brutally knocks out the other man closest to him in the galaxy, had led a galaxy-wide violent separatist movement responsible for the deaths of countless billions, had cut off his arm three years earlier, and decided in the midst of their fight to try and piss Anakin off as much as possible so that he went dark side.

Yeah. Maybe.

See the above.

Again, assuming that Anakin in his moment of clarity is faster than Mace - he's certainly stronger - Mace will gain that speed and strength, too.

And stop saying "power" so much.

No he hadn't.

The point is that when Anakin got angry, Dooku had no say in the matter.

1.) Now you're just deliberately witholding information. The courts are investigating the prosecutors of Ted Stevens for that, y'know.

Gillard said that Anakin was a "9" with the advantage afforded to him by the dark side. Again, that's when Mace would proceed to kick his ass in traditional form.

2.) Nick Gillard isn't a reputable canon source.

See the above.

And I don't understand why you repeatedly ignore what I've been telling you. In "the zone," Anakin is using the dark side. Any boosts in strength or speed he gains, Mace would gain too, courtesy of Vaapad. Shatterpoint would take care of the rest.

When he got pissed off. He still didn't do anything overt with his actual powers (telekinesis, etc.), which is what Nai is referring to.

And did... what, exactly?

You're terrible at this.

Borbarad

Lord Lucien
Pwned.


I think the RoTS novelization spoke of Anakin getting stronger the longer the fight went on. When he was fighting Kenobi. When he was immersed in the Dark Side. When he's getting tooled by Vapaad.

Slash_KMC
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Pwned.


Totally

Red Nemesis
nah. DP is obviously winning.

Eminence
I win.

Red Nemesis
Nevar

Eminence
Raven!

Red Nemesis
Never

Gaevus Mesias
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2yv8aT0UFc

funny as all hell

Lord Lucien
Ah I love that one. I take credit for inspiring you to post that link.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Eminence
1.) You were the one arguing that just because Anakin beat Dooku he could beat Mace, because Dooku's Force powers were greater than Mace's. Hypocrite.

no i was arguing that Mace's superior control of the force wuldnt come into play, just like Dooku's Knowledge of the Force had become "a joke"..

on individual aspects like that you can use A>B>C

Originally posted by Eminence
If Mace kidnaps and apparently terrifies one of the closest men to him in the galaxy, brutally knocks out the other man closest to him in the galaxy, had led a galaxy-wide violent separatist movement responsible for the deaths of countless billions, had cut off his arm three years earlier, and decided in the midst of their fight to try and piss Anakin off as much as possible so that he went dark side..

Ok so your argument is that "In the Zone" Anakin was a one off thing, and wuld never happen again. Fine fair enough. As long as your not denying the strength Anakin had in that fight. (not saying power because you dnt like it)


Originally posted by Eminence
Again, assuming that Anakin in his moment of clarity is faster than Mace - he's certainly stronger - Mace will gain that speed and strength, too. ..

Possibly. Assuming the "Loop" would work on a Jedi, whose driven by rage, but at the same time is thinking clearly and remains a Jedi. Maybe it would. I dnt knw. However say Mace has the same strength as "In the Zone" Anakin, then would that not be a good fight??



Originally posted by Eminence
The point is that when Anakin got angry, Dooku had no say in the matter.
..

Exactly. It was all over for Dooku, once Anakin had that clear mindset and Decided to win.

Originally posted by Eminence
Gillard said that Anakin was a "9" with the advantage afforded to him by the dark side. Again, that's when Mace would proceed to kick his ass in traditional form. ..

Why would it he kick his ass?? would it not be Clash of the Titans, if Mace and Anakin both had the same strength?? Were Sidious and Mace not dead equal in the ROTS novel until Mace "physically" overpowered him?? It would be Much more difficult to "Physically" overpwer Anakin.


Originally posted by Eminence
And I don't understand why you repeatedly ignore what I've been telling you. In "the zone," Anakin is using the dark side. Any boosts in strength or speed he gains, Mace would gain too, courtesy of Vaapad. Shatterpoint would take care of the rest.

Since when was shatterpoint any kind of Gurantee for a Victory in a Lightsaber duel?? an oppurtunity has to arrive to take advantage of that.

Originally posted by Eminence
When he got pissed off. He still didn't do anything overt with his actual powers (telekinesis, etc.), which is what Nai is referring to.

Your actually debating. Nai's just talking rubbish. Saying stuff like Mace knows Anakins moves better Obi1. compelete Bull and completely against Cannon sources.

Originally posted by Eminence
You're terrible at this.

terrible at what?? debating hypothetical star wars fights?? Lol!

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Borbarad
You base that statement on what exactly? Mace didn't boost his own speed or strength using Vaapad. Not even according to the novel. He used the "superconducting loop" to irritate the Sith Lord (reflecting Sidious fear back on him), which made Sidious lose speed and lower his defense. Then Mace disarmed him. .

No! The "Loop" gave Mace Sidious's speed as that was Sidious's main adavantage over Mace.

Originally posted by Borbarad
That doesn't change the fact that Mace is equal to Sidious in terms of speed once fully emerged into Vaapad.

Only when fighting Sidious cleva clogs!! he wuldnt be anywhere near that fast when fighting Anakin. Your the only one who doesnt understand this.


Originally posted by Borbarad
Coming from the guy that attempts to use an A>B>C argument? Pretty hilarious. And where couldn't Yoda overpower Sidious? Notice that Mace and Sidious were fighting on equal ground, while the duel between Yoda and Sidious happens in situations in which the Sith Lord always has a position of advantage. They aren't compareable..

Yoda's fight started on equal gorund. But Sidious was able to turn it around. He culdnt turn it around against Mace. Yoda tried his best to overpower Sidious. He culdnt do it. He admits it himself in the Novel.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Where was Kenobi's position of advantage during his fight with Anakin (with the exception of the last scene, in which he assumed the higher ground)? Where was Kenobi's advantage in their force contest?
..

The only time he gained the position of advantage was when he won, and was the only way for him to win. Otherwise Kenobi wuld have been dead, as he was exhausted, and Anakin looked like hed just been for a stroll. And when did I say Anakin was better at using the Force??




Originally posted by Borbarad
Why would Mace even need to replicate that speed and power. That would only make sense if you want to assume that Anakin is equal to Sidious in terms of force mastery...

Who sed anything about Force Mastery?? Do nyou even know wat on earth your talking about?? Anakin had Huge amounts of Force Reserves which gave him Great Strength to OverPower Dooku. He completley Owned him at that point. Dooku's Mastery of Swordplay became "Irrelevant".. Anakin is Fully capable of using those Force Resveres in a Saber Fight. Its got nothing to do with Force mastery!! wat are u on??

Originally posted by Borbarad
I hope you don't even want to try that kind of argument. Because then I would have to rip you into so many little pieces, that even my grandma, who can do a 1000-piece-puzzle in one hour, will never be able to finish putting you back together again - even if she would go back in time to when her vision was perfect....

You mean kind of like the way im tearing your arguments up bit by bit right now?? smile
Theres no logic behind any of your arguments, nor are they backed up by any king of cannon source. Your basically just making up your own crap, and presenting it as an Argument! LOL!!!


Originally posted by Borbarad
How comes that people like you and Gideon never get the point? If I follow a command to lose a fight, I'm not giving all I can from the beginning on. How often could Dooku have killed Anakin, if he had tried it? The situation in which he floored Kenobi and Anakin at the same time and then spent several seconds to crush the - already knocked out - Jedi Knight. That would have been a nice opportunity to get rid of Skywalker, right?....

For the umpteenth time IV ALREADY ADMITTED THAT EITHER DOOKU OR MACE WOULD HAVE A DECENT CHANCE OF TAKING OUT ANAKIN EARLY IN THE FIGHT!! ARE YOU UNDERSTANDING THIS YET??!! The reason is Anakin gets stronger as the fight goes on, and needs to fight for a while before he really starts to let LOSE.
Oh but by the way in the animated movie Dooku also chucked Anakin to the gorund a couple of times, but Anakin just got right back up. So even though Ill admit Dooku was Winning, and COULD HAVE Won, theres no Guarantee of that.


Originally posted by Borbarad
Oh really?
I didn't see Nick Gillard handing out any numbers for Sidious, Yoda or Mace. Gosh. So how could he put Anakin on one level with them - without defining a level for them. That clearly doesn't make sense. And, as much as I hate to say it, but Lucas word is gospel. And his word is: You have to be Yoda or Mace to sucessfully challenge Sidious. Conclusion: Anakin is not on one level with Yoda, Mace and Sidious. End of debate.?....

You really do like making up crap dnt you?! He gave them all Level 9's, and specifically said theyre all up there with Sidious. Your right though. End of Debate, becuase your just making up your own cannon.


Originally posted by Borbarad
You mean with the exception of the fact that he never did it before or after? Not to mention that he didn't even archieve it on his own but had Dooku taunt him into the zone? Sorry. If there was any hint that Anakin could somehow get into that state at will (or with some work) I'd agree with you. Here you simply don't have a point and also contradict Lucas (note: the only absolute canon existing in the SW Universe) in order to come to your conclusion. In short: YOU FAIL. .?....

"In the zone" (which seems a made up term to me) Was Anakin at his Peak. Becuase he was getting stronger every day. So Iv bin arguing about the Strength of Anakin at his Peak. After that he got weaker.

If you want to argue how Mace or Dooku whoop an Anakin in his weakest Mental state(like he was against Kenobi) then fine go ahead, but I dnt see the point. In short I fail nothing, U just want to Ignore Anakin at his Peak Whooping Dooku's ASS!!! HAHAHAHA!!!



Originally posted by Borbarad
He doesn't automatically get stronger the longer the fight lasts. Where did you get that from? If anything, then the opponent would tired more then Anakin over time. That helps him how exactly against opponents clearly above his own level?.?....

I got that from the ROTS novel, the Fabulous Anakin whoops Dooku fight. Dooku himself notices it. And of course that would help him against opponents better than him!!! If hes getting stronger, and his opponent gets weaker(exactly what happend between Anakin and Dooku) then what do you think is going to be the result of that?!?!!!

Man your arguments are terrible! Are you even thinking as your typing or are you just out to argue with the first dumb thing that comes to mind.



Originally posted by Borbarad
It's getting better and better.]?.?.

Oh yes it is. Especially this next part.


Originally posted by Borbarad
So Mace Windu who mastered the form Anakin is using in order to create Vaapad doesn't have a clue about Anakin's movement patterns? That's hilarious. I'd say he knows that form far better than Kenobi does, who just observed it but did never study it.
And you call it a "poor argument" when I use this fight?

HAHAHA!!! OH pleaseeeeeee!!!! Mace Windu knows Anakins moves better than Kenobi just because he knows Djem So!!?? Mace Windu knows **** about Anakins moves!!! Read the novel! After having spent thousands of Hourse sparring each other they knew each others moves more intimately than lovers!! Nick Gillard calls this fight "toe-to-toe" because they know each other moves inside out, so cant get past each others defences. Also Read the novel. Despite this, Kenobi was making moves of desperation... anything just to Slow Anakin down.

Nai/Borbarad or whatever your name is... your just talking crap.. your completely ignoring things we know as cannon(according to the ROTS novel AND Accordign to Nick Gillard who choreographed the fights) and just making up your own theories, and miserably trying to present them as cannon. The others are actually debating with decent points, But You are just making up your own garbage. Very Poor Points. Made up facts. And overall Pathetic Debating.



Originally posted by Borbarad
Even the worst debators around here have to bow down in order to spit on your head. So how about a nice cup of STFU before you embaress yourself further?

Your by far the worst Debator on these boards. Youve backed up nothing with facts. Just specualtion, that "Oh Anakin can Never be In the zone again" and Made up Bull like "Oh Mace Knows Anakins moves better than his Lifetime teacher and sparring partner because im pretty sure he knows Djem So" and "Oh Nick didnt give Yoda, and Mace and Sidious Ratings, because i didnt see him do that.."

You wana go spit on someone, then go spit on yourself. You Sad Old MAN. I am assuming your an Old Frustrated Man talking about spitting on me. I culdnt Possibly embarras myslef in front of a Sad Old Man like you. Get A life. Or debate properly by finding out the Facts about the ratings Nick Gillard gave, or about how Anakin and Obi-Wan knew each others moves, instead of making up your own crap and saying people should spit on me YOU FRUSTRATED OLD FART!

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Pwned.


Oh please. Borboard owned me??! Yeah owned me in "Who can Pull more Crap out of their Arse" hes chatting absolute crap.

as for the rest of you, yes well done 4 of you can jump one. Congrats.

But iv still answered all your points. And shown Anakin can be a Threat to Mace under the RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCES. (But also admitted if Mace goes all out from the beginning Anakin could go down quickly. And if Anakin was in the same mental state as when he fought Obi-Wan, then of course hed lose to Mace.) Deal with it Mace fans.

Borbarad
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No! The "Loop" gave Mace Sidious's speed as that was Sidious's main adavantage over Mace.


Oh really?


Mace was deep in it now: submerged in Vaapad, swallowed by it, he no longer truly existed as an independent being. Vaapad is a channel for darkness, and that darkness flowed both ways.
He accepted the furious speed of the Sith Lord, drew the shadow's rage and power into his inmost center - And let it fountain out again.

He reflected the fury upon its source as a lightsaber redirects a
blaster bolt. There was a time when Mace Windu had feared the power of the dark; there was a time when he had feared the darkness in himself. But the Clone Wars had given him a gift of understanding: on a world called Haruun Kal, he had faced his darkness and had learned that the power of darkness is not to
be feared.

He had learned that it is fear that gives the darkness power.
He was not afraid. The darkness had no power over him. But-

Neither did he have power over it.

Vaapad made him an open channel, half of a superconducting loop completed by the shadow; they became a standing wave of battle that expanded into every cubic centimeter of the Chancellor's office. There was no scrap of carpet nor shred of chair that might not at any second disintegrate in flares of red or purple; lampstands became brief shields, sliced into segments that whirled through the air; couches became terrain to be climbed
for advantage or overleapt in retreat. But there was still only the cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue.

Impasse.


I don't find anything there that suggest the "superconducting loop" equipped Mace with "additional speed". The passage just mentions that he accepted the speed of the Sith Lord and the superconducting loop is just mentinoned as a "cycle of power" where non of the participants could gain an advantage.

That doesn't mean that Mace did benefit from Vaapad in taking a part of Sidious dark side power to speed himself up. In fact the passage from the novel contradicts that thought as the power remains inside the "loop".



Oh my f*cking god.
So Mace, through Vaapad, is capable of adopting the speed of any opponent (at least Dark Side opponent) he is facing. Do you want to tell us that. Then I have bad news for you: You assume that Anakin is using the Dark Side (which is = the zone) in this fight, which means that Mace would fight a Dark Sider. Result: Anakin loses. If you want to assume the regular shape Anakin, Mace wins again, because Anakin outside of the zone is not even close to Mace in terms of lightsaber skill. Your choice.



Sidious couldn't turn it around against Mace because there was no superior position to assume for him. You did notice that Sidious tried to run away from Yoda and exclusively fought him from positions of advantages (read: the higher ground)?



Excuse me, dumbass. You started this discussion by assuming that Anakin VS Mace would be exactly the same as Anakin VS Dooku. I might quote your last posting again:



QFO (Quoted for ownage). You assume that Anakin would automatically dwell in the metaphysically state he was in, when he defeated Dooku. Apparently you think he will get there via magic somehow. But not enough with that epic fail of an argument. No. You also assume that Anakin can somehow remain a "light side" character while residing in the state that can only be reached by him using his dark side emotions. You call that an argument?



See above. You don't know what you're talking about, yet still attempt to discuss the issue. Anakin is not able to touch that reserves since the connection to that reserves was only established by Dooku taunting him to unleash his fury against him. That means that "force reserves" are only available for Anakin in that very situation or a similar situation. Do you really want to tell us that Mace is going to taunt Anakin into using the Dark Side?



Nope. I mean kind of like the way you pressed the last functioning brain cells out of your ears when trying to shove your head right into Anakin's rectum, fanboy.



Since you couldn't find logic, even if it ran up to you to club you to death, I can't thrust your access to the situation.



What the hell. English, idiot - can you read it?
The point is that Anakin just managed to get the upper hand because of DOOKUS ACTIONS IN THE RESPECTIVE CONFRONTATIONS. Without taunting, no boarder-line dark side Anakin. Without boarder-line dark side Anakin, no Anakin getting stronger. That means if he isn't taunted to use the Dark Side, he loses. And if you want to assume that this is a Dark Side Anakin, he still loses because of Vaapad. Your stance is hopeless, pal.

Borbarad
Oh he did? Where, pal? The only source I know where Gillard talks about "levels" and defines them is his comment on the fight between Anakin and Obi-Wan in RotS. He calls Obi-Wan a level 8 duellist and then mentions that Anakin is a level 9, only because of his Dark Side abilities. The only other level 9 implied is Dooku. You want to put Dooku on one level with Yoda despite the fact that Yoda handed Dooku ass to him twice?



Holy crap. You don't get it, right? Anakin "at his peak" when linking that "peak" to the second in which he defeated Dooku is nothing that Anakin could reach at will or on his own. Hence it's completely irrelevant for a VS fight. Unless you want to assume that one of his opponets taunts him into using the Dark Side, which would - because Mace is the opponent - still end with Anakin getting beaten.



Read above. You've still not been able to grasp the point. And considering the way you try to insult people, the nice teachers at elementary school might be willing to help you to get a grip on logic and company.



First read, then reply. I already said that he was getting stronger, which was still an result of Dooku taunting him and not about his natural strength. And gosh. It comes from the perspective of Dooku. Didn't people tell you that the personal perspective of some characters is fallible?



Yes. I'm arguing with the first dumb thing that comes...to this forum. Good characterization of yourself. The stone bridge can be found 1 mile to the north. I've heard trolls have much fun there.



Watch the movie. The novel is just an interpretation of events shown in the film. Does Kenobi look desperate in the movie? I don't think so. In fact the movie depicts those two as equals, hence their fight continuing for what...15 minutes?

And you have, of course, taken Mace's Shatterpoint ability into consideration that would automatically reveal any weak-point on his opponent to him, correct? So that Obi-Wan couldn't piece Anakin's defenses doesn't mean that Mace wouldn't be able to do the job.

And LMAO by the way: Sparring with somebody that practices a certain style of fighting gives you a better inside into the style then studying it yourself? So people watching Bruce Lee movies know more about Kung Fu than Martial Artists? Great line of thought there.



I'm afraid. You still not get the point. According to George Lucas himself there is one league of duellists including Sidious, Yoda and Mace Windu - and the rest of the characters alive at the end of RotS is below them. This includes Anakin. End of story. You lose.



You can't even type, and much less think. Go bother somebody that cares about your oppinion. I don't. Neither does anybody here. Bye.



Excuse me. The kindergarten has called. They're missing you and hope that you will return soon. *Yawn*

kotorfan
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
ToMAYto-ToMAHto.

whats with this seriously?? I've seen this on like every thread I read.

lolz this is funny as hell..




at first I thought it said Djem So > Kakashi (like the guy from naruto)


EDIT: sry about the messed up quote..

mattatom
Originally posted by kotorfan
at first I thought it said Djem So > Kakashi (like the guy from naruto)


Kakashi would probably win he'd go Water Dragon Jitsu on Djem So's Ass.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by kotorfan
whats with this seriously?? I've seen this on like every thread I read.
Proof of my omnipresence.

Hawtsauce
RotS Obi-Wan would beat RotS Anakin, regardless where the hell they fight.

Then, Obi-Wan goes and fights Mace and gets beat. Mace clearly is the better duelist with sabers and more powerful in the force. And then Shatterpoint is the icing on the cake. He'd find a way through Obi-Wan's Soresu.

SIDIOUS 66
Originally posted by Hawtsauce
RotS Obi-Wan would beat RotS Anakin, regardless where the hell they fight.

How so?

Lord Lucien
Yeah I'm interested in hearing the reason behind that too.

Higilo
Obi Wan Kenobi would die pretty much immeadiately without any environmental factors, because the only way he wins fights is by finding an intelligent use of his surroundings. Anakin and Mace Windu would fight and Mace Windu would Anakin would win if he got angry, otherwise Mace would win.

mattatom
Originally posted by Higilo
Obi Wan Kenobi would die pretty much immeadiately without any environmental factors, because the only way he wins fights is by finding an intelligent use of his surroundings. Anakin and Mace Windu would fight and Mace Windu would Anakin would win if he got angry, otherwise Mace would win.

Some faults here.

1) You forget Obi Wan is a master of Soresu. He won't die immediately. Who said they'd both attack Obi Wan first if anything i'd of thought Obi Wan would of outlasted Anakin.
2) Evn if Anakin and Mace fought Mace is a better swordsman, and has Vapaad if Anakin got Angry, Mace would become a deadlier opponent via the superconducting loop.

Hawtsauce
Why? Because Obi-wan was a master of Soresu. Anakin COULD be a master of Djem So but it was never really stated. Anyway, Obi-wan would just hold Anakin off until he would be able to exploit an opening in Anakin's defense, like he did on Mustafar. And if you want to say that the duel on Mustafar was a disadvantage to Anakin, don't you think it would be a big disadvantage to Obi-wan too?

"The road is long, but it is worth the journey, for a true master of Form Three is invincible."
―Luminara Unduli on Form Three

Janus Marius
I doubt someone who's spent three years learning Djem So is a master in any sense of the word. He's barely old enough to buy liquor. Don't give him too much credit.



Ultimately, this assumes that there will be a weakness to exploit. Not that Anakin "I'm all balls" Skywalker isn't notorious for leaving himself open while hammering away at his opponent, but this is a pretty big if. In a level arena, Obi-Wan could last a long time. But Anakin is noticeably stronger physically, and one fatal mistake could undo him.

Lightsnake
Originally posted by Janus Marius
I doubt someone who's spent three years learning Djem So is a master in any sense of the word. He's barely old enough to buy liquor. Don't give him too much credit.

Exar Kun spent six months studying the Dark Side and look what happened to him. Bane spent three years learning Djem So and loo what he became.

Dooku's own thoughts convey Anakin as a fine a Djem So master as any he's ever seen...Anakin himself demonstrates how good he's become by taking Dooku on and holding his own. Likewise with Asajj Ventress and Durge. He's described as the best Jedi of his generation in the opening of the ROTS novel.

Anakin's age is not a demerit to ability. He was the same age as Bane when Bane was the most powerful man in the galaxy and the best swordsman. He might even be older than Exar Kun was when Exar mastered the double blade. In essence: Anakin was definitely a saber master, age not withstanding.




Anakin's actually a pretty smart fighter when he's keeping a level head.

Raptor22
could anakin beat sideous if anakin was in the zone

mattatom
Originally posted by Raptor22
could anakin beat sideous if anakin was in the zone
No. *Waits for the Mace/Yoda quote.*

Janus Marius
Mace was blacker then Yoda, ergo he wins by decision.

mattatom
Originally posted by Janus Marius
Mace was blacker then Yoda, ergo he wins by decision.
Lies!

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