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all out gun battle. who takes this?

Preston can deduce where the bullets are going to be based on where the shooter(s) is standing, he probably can't deduce where curving bullets are going to go.

Gibson can't avoid bullets like Preston.

Probably comes down to who can shoot first, but I'd guess Gibson ftw.

I actually thought about this match up while watching wanted in theaters.

Although, I couldn't come to a conclusion.

wesley, he has been able to react to bullets already fired and counter with those of his own, he's pretty much better in every way (except maybe hand-to-hand)

So, depending if John can get close enough, he's screwed.


It would help if we knew where the fight took place.

Man this would be a good shootout. I think the outcome would depend on where the fight takes place. I'm inclined to say Preston just b/c i like equilibrium better

even if wesly gibson could get a shot of john would know where it was gonna come from. hes studied EVERY gun fight EVER.

No he wouldn't considering Wesley "curves" bullets.

BATTLEGROUND: pillared hallway like in Equilibrium & Matrix

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the beginning of this video should prove that preston will win, there are bullets flying at him the second he enters the room for a good 3 seconds, then he kills everyone inside. in a matter of seconds

Gibson.

I'm gonna go with Johnny Boy here and say Gibson

I argued for Preston against Gibson in another thread here (I swear this thread was done already), but Placidity opened my eyes to the fact that Gun Kata works only in Preston's universe, where the shooters are inept morons.

Well, I stated it, and he took it, ran with it, elaborated on it, and I was like "Damn..." haermm

Thread was already done.


It was conclude that Preston won, easily.


The furthest we got was Placidity falsely indicating that a bent bullet ends up in a significantly different location than a straight line bullet. I showed, quite clearly, that it ends up in almost the same exact point. The first time Gibson fires a bent bullet: it curves right around Jolie and hits the target where he'd been shooting it straight on, to begin with. The trajectory change does little for Gibson. What's worse: it take a bit to pick his arm up and fire: Preston can literally clear a room of a dozen highly training people before one person can bring their gun up from their side and fire. Wesley, while most likely faster on the draw, will have no chance to fire one curved bullet. Even if he did, Preston still moves into any position that is safe, regardless, because of the little to no difference at all of were the bullet ends up by the time it reaches the target.


Also, Gibson was seen shooting a bullet right out of the air: but that was one bullet. He can't do shit against multiple bullets and he easily goes down.



RJ: ignoring the abilities of a character, just for the sake of being philosphical, does nothing to contriube to the thread. You can ignore gun kata all you want on the grounds of it being "illogical" to comprehend. But you certainly can't ignore it in a MVF debate.

Personally, I am still waiting for a plausible presentation as to why HG can succeed gun fu.

All I hear is pompous, self imposed, speculation.

All previous quotes aside, that is.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Thread was already done.


It was conclude that Preston won, easily.


The furthest we got was Placidity falsely indicating that a bent bullet ends up in a significantly different location than a straight line bullet. I showed, quite clearly, that it ends up in almost the same exact point. The first time Gibson fires a bent bullet: it curves right around Jolie and hits the target where he'd been shooting it straight on, to begin with. The trajectory change does little for Gibson. What's worse: it take a bit to pick his arm up and fire: Preston can literally clear a room of a dozen highly training people before one person can bring their gun up from their side and fire. Wesley, while most likely faster on the draw, will have no chance to fire one curved bullet. Even if he did, Preston still moves into any position that is safe, regardless, because of the little to no difference at all of were the bullet ends up by the time it reaches the target.


Also, Gibson was seen shooting a bullet right out of the air: but that was one bullet. He can't do shit against multiple bullets and he easily goes down.



RJ: ignoring the abilities of a character, just for the sake of being philosphical, does nothing to contriube to the thread. You can ignore gun kata all you want on the grounds of it being "illogical" to comprehend. But you certainly can't ignore it in a MVF debate.

hw00thw00t

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I argued for Preston against Gibson in another thread here (I swear this thread was done already), but Placidity opened my eyes to the fact that Gun Kata works only in Preston's universe, where the shooters are inept morons.

Well, I stated it, and he took it, ran with it, elaborated on it, and I was like "Damn..." haermm

If you're going to ignore feats simply because they don't make sense, then on that same exact rational Hit-Girl can only dodge bullets that are fired from morons in her "universe", because she's just a little girl and dodging bullets is "illogical."

Another example: Superman lifting that island was completely illogical as he couldn't logically have done that feat, no matter if he had unlimited strength/flying-lift. All those millions, billions or trillions of tons of weight focused on the surface area of just his hands/back; he would have sunk into the earth and buried himself through. No lifting would have happened, not an inch.

Yet no one cries "illogical, it doesn't count as a movie-feat" in Superman threads. I'm certain there's many, many, many other movie-feats that are illogical throughout this forum.

Like I said before, it's fiction, we're dealing with fictional characters, it doesn't have to "logical."

Originally posted by Robtard
If you're going to ignore feats simply because they don't make sense, then on that same exact rational, Hit-Girl can only dodge bullets that are fired from morons in her "universe".

Another example: Superman lifting that island was completely illogical as he couldn't logically have done that feat, no matter if he had unlimited strength/flying-lift. All those billions (or trillions) of tons of weight focused on the surface area of just his hands/back; he would have sunk into the earth and buried himself through. No lifting would have happened, not an inch.

Yet no one cries "illogical, it doesn't count as a movie-feat" in Superman threads. I'm certain there's many, many, many other movie-feats that are illogical throughout this forum.

Like I said before, it's fiction, we're dealing with fictional characters, it doesn't have to "logical."

well said rob

Originally posted by Robtard
If you're going to ignore feats simply because they don't make sense, then on that same exact rational Hit-Girl can only dodge bullets that are fired from morons in her "universe", because she's just a little girl and dodging bullets is "illogical."

Another example: Superman lifting that island was completely illogical as he couldn't logically have done that feat, no matter if he had unlimited strength/flying-lift. All those millions, billions or trillions of tons of weight focused on the surface area of just his hands/back; he would have sunk into the earth and buried himself through. No lifting would have happened, not an inch.

Yet no one cries "illogical, it doesn't count as a movie-feat" in Superman threads. I'm certain there's many, many, many other movie-feats that are illogical throughout this forum.

Like I said before, it's fiction, we're dealing with fictional characters, it doesn't have to "logical." I am amazed that you still do NOT get it.

I acknowledge all movie feats, logical and illogical.

Question: How competent did Prestons opponents seem? You know, the ones who stood still shooting at him?

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
well said rob


oEcOowwdxCM

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I am amazed that you still do NOT get it.

I acknowledge all movie feats, logical and illogical.

Question: How competent did Prestons opponents seem? You know, the ones who stood still shooting at him?
I'm amazed that you're still trying to evade being a hypocrite.

What should they have done? Back-flips while shooting sideways? Turned invisible? Cast protection spells? Relied on their invulnerabilty? What in your mind?

They had guns; they fired them and they had the advantage of numbers, so they did what they should have done. He was just too good for them, as portrayed in the film.

Originally posted by Robtard
I'm amazed that you're still trying to evade being a hypocrite.

What should they have done? Back-flips while shooting sideways? Turned invisible? Cast protection spells? Relied on their invulnerabilty? What in your mind?

They had guns; they fired them and they had the advantage of numbers, so they did what they should have done. He was just too good for them, as portrayed in the film.

Walking forward and taking bullets willingly, standing in one spot shooting KNOWING that this is what gun kata relies on= epic stupidity. Ineptness. Idiocy. Take your pick.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Walking forward and taking bullets willingly, standing in one spot shooting KNOWING that this is what gun kata relies on= epic stupidity. Ineptness. Idiocy. Take your pick.

If your angle is: "Preston isn't that good, his opponents are just beyond pathetic." Then that can be applied to Hit-Girl, as many of her opponents did similar. Also, keep clinging to your failed "gunkata only works when people stand still." Stands to reason that if countless gun fights were studied in the making of the art, they all wouldn't be old-west style duels.

Or, what I said and was implied/shown in the film, he's just the best at his particular skill and no one could beat him. They tried to shoot him; they couldn't.

Originally posted by Robtard
If your angle is: "Preston isn't that good, his opponents are just beyond pathetic." Then that can be applied to Hit-Girl, as many of her opponents did similar. Also, keep clinging to your failed "gunkata only works when people stand still." Stands to reason that if countless gun fights were studied in the making of the art, they all wouldn't be old-west style duels.

Or, what I said and was implied/shown in the film, he's just the best at his particular skill and no one could beat him. They tried to shoot him; they couldn't.


OK, let's take this one thing at a time.

Prestons efficiency with gun kata relies greatly on two things:

1. Him being able to predict where and when his opponents will fire.

2. The target being in that same spot when he returns fire.


This really is indisputable. Do you agree?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
OK, let's take this one thing at a time.

Prestons efficiency with gun kata relies greatly on two things:

1. Him being able to predict where and when his opponents will fire.

2. The target being in that same spot when he returns fire.


This really is indisputable. Do you agree?

If you're going to copy and paste, I will too(sorry Imp) this one time, but I'm done.

Originally posted by Robtard
No.

Post the gun kata wiki again if you like, no where does it say that opponents must stand still and it stands to reason that a moving opponent's position can be calculated and factored. Considering not all gun fights (the countless ones studied in making gun kata) consist of olden style duels where two prone opponents face off.

Feeling like a broken record, not sure I want to rehash this again, as it's been said in multiple threads now.

Originally posted by Robtard
If you're going to copy and paste, I will too(sorry Imp) this one time, but I'm done.

Gun Kata is a fictional gun-fighting martial art discipline that is a significant part of the film. It is based upon the premise that, given the positions of the participants in a gun battle, the trajectories of fire are statistically predictable. By pure memorization of the positions, one can fire at the most likely location of an enemy without aiming at him in the traditional sense of pointing a gun at a specific target. By the same token, the trajectories of incoming fire are also statistically predictable, so by assuming the appropriate stance, one can keep one's body clear of the most likely way of enemy bullets.


Now, if someone moves from the position/s that Preston has memorized, the trajectory of their incoming fire has changed.



Did you see that?

I fail to see where "positions" dictates your BS angle of "gunkata is nullified if someone moves and repositions themselves".


Did you see that?

Yeah. And if someone repositions themselves over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over ad fast as HG can. Preston has zero chance of memorizing her position. It's like trying to get a lock on a much smaller, much faster Jet.

No memorization of positioning>No prediction of trajectories. But this thread is about Wesley and Preston, so I digress.

If she had superhuman speed, sure, I'd see that. She doesn't; don't keep making her out to be more than she is.

This is also the Preston vs. Wesley thread, so you should take your epic Hit-Girl masturbation over to that thread.

Originally posted by Robtard
If she had superhuman speed, sure, I'd see that. She doesn't; don't keep making her out to be more than she is.

This is also the Preston V Wesley, so you should take your epic Hit-Girl masturbation over to that thread.


OK. Wesley kills Preston. Quickly and easily. Moving on.

Wesley doesn't dodge bullets...,he just anticipates them

And shoots them out of the air

nah, he's not really shooting them out of the air.

O'Rly? Elaborate on that?