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OK, Tommy Lee Jones's character in "The Fugitive" and "U.S. Marshall's" (Sam Gerard) is called upon to lead a nationwide manhunt. The fugitive in question is wanted (framed obviously), for assassinating the President while the President was giving a speech in a major city somewhere in the middle of America.

The fugitive must escaped the manhunt, then clear his name, using whatever methods they see fit. Here is the fugitive list:

1. Jason Bourne
2. James Bond (Pierce Brosnan version)
3. Bob Lee Swagger
4. John McClane
5. Leon (The Professional)
6. Snake Plissken
7. Boondock Saints
8. Dr. Richard Kimble (Why not? :lol
9. James Carter (Rush Hour)
10. The Jackal (Bruce Willis)

Who will make it and who won't? Feel free to add and discuss additional fugitive candidates, or someone besides Gerard to lead the manhunt.

Bond, McClane, Leon and Bourne, will know the SOP from most official organisations, and I think would make great fugitives.
Im not too clued up on the others so I'll reserve judgement til I can be fussed about finding out who they are.

Probably all except 7 & 9, the rest either have the intelligence, cunning and/or resources to make it to either Mexico or Canada.

This got dull fast, lets put a twist on it....


Let's say that they are ALL suspects at the same time and must all run at the same time. Who lasts the longest?

Oh, "Running Man" style...?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Nope I just cant see who would be the runner up after McClane.....



Ummmmmmmmmmm either Bond or Bourne, I'd say.

Man, I'm sick of McClaine being viewed as anywhere close to someone like Bond or Bourne. He is just a living peice of PIS.

Put him in a real world scenario, where he doesn't get luck like Domino and he'd just be a cop.

I'd say Bourne and Bond. I would say Leon, but i really don't know how he is going to clear his name, he doesnt even exist. Bourne and Bond will be the ones who will be able to go the distance the easiest.

I think all of the other candidates will be able to escape the manhunt easily, except for, Snake Pliskin, Carter and the Boondock Saints. I don't see these guys eluding the manhunt.

Originally posted by Placidity
Man, I'm sick of McClaine being viewed as anywhere close to someone like Bond or Bourne. He is just a living peice of PIS.

Put him in a real world scenario, where he doesn't get luck like Domino and he'd just be a cop.

That's his special ability, removing that is like taking away Superman's powers of invulnerability, flight and strength.

Craig Bond>Brosnan Bond

Originally posted by Placidity
Man, I'm sick of McClaine being viewed as anywhere close to someone like Bond or Bourne. He is just a living peice of PIS.

Put him in a real world scenario, where he doesn't get luck like Domino and he'd just be a cop. Well, McClane has a knack for stumbling through scenarios where most men would crumble. Sure, McClane wouldnt know what the hell he is doing here, but he seems to always find a way. Just look at his fight scenes, he is almost always outclassed, but he always wins.

Originally posted by Robtard
That's his special ability, removing that is like taking away Superman's powers of invulnerability, flight and strength.

His ability is right up there with those special abilities of phenomenal endurance and resourcefulness.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Craig Bond>Brosnan Bond

Originally posted by Placidity
Man, I'm sick of McClaine being viewed as anywhere close to someone like Bond or Bourne. He is just a living peice of PIS.

Put him in a real world scenario, where he doesn't get luck like Domino and he'd just be a cop.

I think you are just being grossly unfair.

If it was pure luck that McClane relied on, he would have just sat on that roof in DH1 and let the C-4 go off, put his fingers in his ears and hoped for luck, (which would have got him killed, of course.)
No, he survived in and up to that situation by his own hand, largely.
Every bit of 'Luck' that comes his way is actualised in part by sustained stealthy efforts at self preservation/taking out bad guys.

Ergo: To just say it is pure luck "is shallow and pedantic", as Peter Griffin would say.


Besides if he was THAT lucky, wouldnt Hans have tripped down the stairs and broke his neck just after the opening credits, eliminating the terrorist threat, and allowing John and Holly a happy xmas..?

But no. McClane has the misfortune to have to crawl around in vents being shot at, getting shot, having his feet gashed to ribbons by glass, sustaining heavy bloodloss, then still having to fight the FBI and the head bad guys off.

Some might that that was very UNlucky.
Especially when Xmas eve three years later bad guys ruin xmas AGAIN. And I didnt see him winning any lottery wins.

Mhm....Helicopter killed by Crown Vic, indo story.

He aimed that car.... If he drove it in the opposite direction and it STILL hit the helicoptor, then yeah that would have been phenomenally lucky.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Mhm....Helicopter killed by Crown Vic, indo story.

And?

I know he aimed it, man. I am speaking of his resourcefulness, that's all. He had the presence of mind to use the car, it shows that he adapts to most given situations.

Ahhhh I see. Then I agree.

Han Solo

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Ahhhh I see. Then I agree. With the exception of fighting a trained martial artist h2h.

He killed that ninjabeech without any of that mandatory assistance from a partner like Riggs needed against Jet Li.

Like Riggs needed against the South Africans.

Like Riggs would have needed if he countinued sparring that basic, rookie boxer who owned him.






And its clear from whats happening in the movie at that point, that McClane wanted to take her out in the quickest time possible, as she was forcing the kid to do her evil deeds on the computer that would have screwed up the country more.

The FALL killed her, McClane had nothing to do with it.

From what I remember, Riggs took on the South Africans alone. Murtaugh was on the other side of the boat.

If that fight with the boxer had been a street fight Riggs would have pwned.

I seem to remember that Riggs got his ass kicked by the mean south African, so he cheated by dropping a shipping container on his ass.
Then after Riggs had been shot to shit Roger comes in and calls for assistance/saves Rigg's life again.

So you dont remember "Youve just been de-Kafanated"..?
And who did the deKafanating...?

Watch that sparring scene again. The point of it was to show that regardless of any chosen, fighting form, Riggs was getting too old. And wasnt shit anymore.

Dude Riggs had a frigging bayonet in the leg, and he still won h2h.

So Murtaugh killed a decrepit old man, and?

Yeah he wasn't shit, that's why he had Jet Li's character on the ropes.

So...? Was never a problem for McClane.
Riggs was sloppy enough to get a bayonet in the leg in the first place: Not good, by McClanian standards, really.

He didnt..though, did he.

Even with a piece of metal through him, Li was still too much for Riggs and good old Rodge had ta come a running one more time.

And the fall killed Ninjachick like the bullets killed Rigg's enemies instead of Riggs.

Like the NLSA (National lift shafts association) says:
"Shafts dont kill people.. being in one because a car has rammed them into one kills people."

Sloppy enough? Dude at least Riggs kept his shoes on. Talk about sloppy.

No he didnt.

That was to show how badass Jet Li's character was. He dodged bullets, man.

That was an ambush.
If he had warning, he'd have been prepared, naturally.
Not like the sloppiness displayed by Riggs when =Riggs was ambushed in LW2. The chick died as result. Hell even Sam nearly got his ass shot off.


Allowing your wife, and your girlfriend to be murdered by the same crew...? Sloppy.

If Riggs had got em back when he was doing his investigating, he'd have got em before they killed the wife(and wouldnt be in a postion to kill the GF). He instead of shooting people performs three stoogages routine wheere he could easily be shot in the face.
His work in the case of the childshooter, the roof jumper and the drugbust was sloppy. The pool guy dying: Rigg's sloppiness.

Look at his apartment/trailer!!!!

Sloppy.

The mullet.
Sloppy.

His getting caught by McCallister in the desert and botching the rescue...?
Sloppy.

I could go on.....

Dude Riggs had just gotten sone S African poon, anyone would be caught off guard then, yes, even McClane.

And sure, Riggs ALLOWED all that. Just like McClane ALLOWED the coke sniffer to be killed, and ALLOWED the Jap boss to be killed, and ALLOWED all the other innocents to be killed.

Wanna talk sloppy? McClane is as sloppy as he is lucky.

McClane and Riggs should be banned from now on. It has an uncanny ability to sneak into topics to become the God-forbidden "McClane vs Riggs".

McClane was listed as a factor in this thread from the get-go.

BTW, that 'McClane Vs. Riggs' thread empirically proved that McClane would win in such a scenario.

Horseshit. Get McClanes knob out of your mouth.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dude Riggs had just gotten sone S African poon, anyone would be caught off guard then, yes, even McClane.

And sure, Riggs ALLOWED all that. Just like McClane ALLOWED the coke sniffer to be killed, and ALLOWED the Jap boss to be killed, and ALLOWED all the other innocents to be killed.

Wanna talk sloppy? McClane is as sloppy as he is lucky.

Not in the first coupla movies.

DH3 McClane had the appearance of a sloppy man, but he was effecient and smooth in his killing all the way through even hung over, the man was not sloppy.

Thats the nearest he got to sloppiness in actuality.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Not in the first coupla movies.

DH3 McClane had the appearance of a sloppy man, but he was effecient and smooth in his killing all the way through even hung over, the man was not sloppy.

Thats the nearest he got to sloppiness in actuality. Right, McClane causes ZERO collateral damage

Originally posted by Placidity
McClane and Riggs should be banned from now on. It has an uncanny ability to sneak into topics to become the God-forbidden "McClane vs Riggs".

YOU should be banned.

You are a troll who seems to do nothing other than attack members,
and maybe you could get a sense of humour, whilst you're at it.
Its a forum, dude. But thanks for the repression of free speech rally.

Have a nice day.

Also, Placidity..
Originally posted by Robtard
McClane was listed as a factor in this thread from the get-go.

BTW, that 'McClane Vs. Riggs' thread empirically proved that McClane would win in such a scenario.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Right, McClane causes ZERO collateral damage

Like thats a mark of sloppiness in an action movie...

Besides, dont make me mention "Roger....Grab the cat...!!!".

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Like thats a mark of sloppiness in an action movie... Um, actually, when a cop is at fault for the death of an innocent, it's slopiness.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Horseshit. Get McClanes knob out of your mouth.

Again with the fellating male action stars, with you...

Im not one to judge.
Each to their own I guess.
I mean these are open minded times we live in.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Um, actually, when a cop is at fault for the death of an innocent, it's slopiness.

Im sorry, but when did that happen...?

If you mean Ellis, then see the "Was it McClane's fault thread" i believe it was an overwhelming "NO" vote.

By the way. Your misspelling of of "sloppiness" was just....well............sloppy.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Again with the fellating male action stars, with you...

Im not one to judge.
Each to their own I guess.
I mean these are open minded times we live in. Hey, I call it as I see it.

That what I mean..... the world is a big mirror, as they say.

That works both ways, you know. It's not limited to a sole individual.

Indeed, but you always go to same sex fellatio.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Um, actually, when a cop is at fault for the death of an innocent, it's slopiness.

You've got the nerve, Ellis was not his fault, McClane did his best to save him. It was empirically proven in a thread that McClane is innocent of that charge.

Here, RJ. Look at your own post 3 posts from the top:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f2/t500458.html

It's sarcasm, you dolts. It's the same as the two of you saying Riggs wife dying was his fault.

Dolts....lolz

Things is thats a painfully ironically funny accusative, when used by dolts.

Difference is: I wasnt being sarcastic.

Victoria was killed because Riggs was investigating some folk who thought they'd bump him off, the put the hit out on him and his "not having put them behind bars" allowed to them be free to do it..
And to kill Pasty Kensit's character a few years later.

http://forums.premiere.com/showthread.php?p=40087
Was the 1st post you...? Of course it was. Dont deny it.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Dolts....lolz

Things is thats a painfully ironically funny accusative, when used by dolts.

Difference is: I wasnt being sarcastic.

Victoria was killed because Riggs was investigating some folk who thought they'd bump him off, the put the hit out on him and his "not having put them behind bars" allowed to them be free to do it..

http://forums.premiere.com/showthread.php?p=40087
Was the 1st post you...? Of course it was. Dont deny it.

Mhm, and how is this Riggs fault? How is it his fault when someone decides to kill him but mistakenly kill his wife? Thats like saying its Eric Dravens fault that Shelly was raped and killed.

And OK.

Its his fault for not nicking them all before they could put the hit out on him/his wife by proxy.

McClane was always a lot better at this and managed to apprehend/kill the people his is investigating before they can kill him/his family.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Mhm, and how is this Riggs fault? How is it his fault when someone decides to kill him but mistakenly kill his wife? Thats like saying its Eric Dravens fault that Shelly was raped and killed.

And OK.

No. Its not. It would have been, if Draven was a cop assigned to bring in the Gang, and as a result of that, then they'd killed Draven's missus.

Then it'd be the same.

Ah, OK. Well, prolly he didnt know for sure who they were yet. Remember when dude said "You were getting too close?" All those times McClane did what you said he did, he knew who the guys were, and where they were.

Well Riggs didnt know who he was investigating...?

Mmmmmmm. Usually, cops know who is is who they are investigating.

They'd be sloppy assed cops otherwise.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Well Riggs didnt know who he was investigating...?

Mmmmmmm. Usually, cops know who is is who they are investigating.

They'd be sloppy assed cops otherwise. They were a secretive organization obviously, and he was beginning to close in on who they were. Its called "Detecting."

A rank that McClane made. Detective.

Was Riggs ever ranked detective...?

Not sure, but he did his fair share of detecting and kicked ass at it. I believe he was a detective in 4.

Not as good or fast at it as McClane though: If he hadn't been so slow, Victoria and Kensit chick'd still be alive, like Holly and Lucy are.

So to conclude: Like you said earlier You think a cop responsible for the death of innocents: Is sloppy, by your earlier statements.

Therefore:

Riggs= Sloppy
Mcclane=Not sloppy.

haermm WOW.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Not as good or fast at it as McClane though: If he hadn't been so slow, Victoria and Kensit chick'd still be alive, like Holly and Lucy are.

So to conclude: Like you said earlier You think a cop responsible for the death of innocents: Is sloppy, by your earlier statements.

Therefore:

Riggs= Sloppy
Mcclane=Not sloppy.

Please stop swinging from my nuts.

- John McClane

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
A rank that McClane made. Detective.

Was Riggs ever ranked detective...?

He was a Captain.

Originally posted by Ahsoka Tano
He was a Captain.

Stop swinging from Rigg's nuts.

Originally posted by Robtard
Stop swinging from Rigg's nuts.

Wasn't, just stating fact.

Originally posted by Ahsoka Tano
Please stop swinging from my nuts.

- John McClane You kidding me? You've seen the last die hard movie... his little "sidekick".

McClane wants everyone swinging on his nuts.

Originally posted by Mairuzu
You kidding me? You've seen the last die hard movie... his little "sidekick".

McClane wants everyone swinging on his nuts.

lol the Dell guy ****ed his daughter.

Mac you fool

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Not as good or fast at it as McClane though: If he hadn't been so slow, Victoria and Kensit chick'd still be alive, like Holly and Lucy are.

So to conclude: Like you said earlier You think a cop responsible for the death of innocents: Is sloppy, by your earlier statements.

Therefore:

Riggs= Sloppy
Mcclane=Not sloppy. Lucy and Holly being compared to Victoria and the S African chick is crazy.

Lucy and Holly were being held by terrorists who aimed to keep them alive for a certain period of time, giving McClane a window of oppurtunity to save them.

Victoria and the S African nipple chick, well, they were killed by accident (Victoria) and for their betrayal (S African chick.)

Riggs had no chance to save them. If he had had the chance McClane did, they'd still be alive. If Riggs KNEW that they were in danger (As McClane KNEW Lucy and Holly were, and NO he didn't figure this out on his own, it was shown to him), they would never have died.

Again, McClane relied on his LUCK here more than his SKILL. Riggs has more SKILL as a police officer and a h2h combatant. McClane, without his luck, is nothing more than a beat cop who can take a beating.

Originally posted by Ahsoka Tano
Please stop swinging from my nuts.

- John McClane Indeed.

Originally posted by Ahsoka Tano
Wasn't, just stating fact.

Sure, nutswinger.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Lucy and Holly being compared to Victoria and the S African chick is crazy.

Lucy and Holly were being held by terrorists who aimed to keep them alive for a certain period of time, giving McClane a window of oppurtunity to save them.

Victoria and the S African nipple chick, well, they were killed by accident (Victoria) and for their betrayal (S African chick.)

Riggs had no chance to save them. If he had had the chance McClane did, they'd still be alive. If Riggs KNEW that they were in danger (As McClane KNEW Lucy and Holly were, and NO he didn't figure this out on his own, it was shown to him), they would never have died.

Again, McClane relied on his LUCK here more than his SKILL. Riggs has more SKILL as a police officer and a h2h combatant. McClane, without his luck, is nothing more than a beat cop who can take a beating.

Pure, unrestrained nutswingery.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Pure, unrestrained nutswingery. Hardly, I just put it in perspective in a totally objective fashion.

And for the record, I'd rather be a Riggs nutswinger than a McClane knob jobber.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Um, actually, when a cop is at fault for the death of an innocent, it's slopiness.


Sorry, homie. I hate to butt in on this brilliant discussion but i just cant be contained. That's Bullshit, nigga!!!! You know as well as everyone else that McClane is about as smooth as they come. Don't be hatin on McClane when dumb mother fukers do shit they're not supposed to. Remember, McClane never once had to do anything in the first place. By putting himself in harms way...,WAY beyond the realms of his obligation he saves dozens and hundreds of lives at a time. Yeah, some buildings get fuked up, but shiit, He wasn't even supposed to be there that day

The two knuckle heads in lethal weapon stay wreckin shiit, on and off the job

Seriously, i didn't mean to step in on the conversation just to shit on you but you were takin low blows, man...,admit it.

Feel free puke all over my face next time i'm in the middle of a cineBattle, here.

Nah its cool. I was actually LOLing when the argument of sloppiness came up. As if that makes any difference here. Hell, I could argue that McClane was sloppy for not being a better father to Holly, but how dumb an argument is that?

Dumb Scale of 1-10, it's about an 11.

Exactly.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Hardly, I just put it in perspective in a totally objective fashion.

And for the record, I'd rather be a Riggs nutswinger than a McClane knob jobber.

Unfortunate for you then: You're both.

By the way objective means unbiased. And since you conveniantly overlook that fact that the only reason Kensit got bumped off, is for SOMETHING THAT RIGGS DID. IE Shagging her, that makes your assessment blindly biased.

So either way, it would be utter Riggs' nut-swingery and ass harrassment of the lowest order to deny that Rigg's actions lead to both their deaths..

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Nah its cool. I was actually LOLing when the argument of sloppiness came up. As if that makes any difference here. Hell, I could argue that McClane was sloppy for not being a better father to Holly, but how dumb an argument is that?

Go for it: Argue it. It'd be true to your form.

Especially with Holly being his WIFE and all, yes.

I wouldnt say this one is better but I like him that would be Castor Troy in Face/Off....

Face off was a cool movie.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Unfortunate for you then: You're both.

By the way objective means unbiased. And since you conveniantly overlook that fact that the only reason Kensit got bumped off, is for SOMETHING THAT RIGGS DID. IE Shagging her, that makes your assessment blindly biased.

So either way, it would be utter Riggs' nut-swingery and ass harrassment of the lowest order to deny that Rigg's actions lead to both their deaths.. Both? How you figure? haermm I'd love to hear this.

She chose to sleep with Riggs, it takes two to tango, you know. She knew the guys she worked for and that the LAPD was investigating them. She rolled the dice and lost. Even if Riggs hadn't told her not to go back to work there, she wouldn't have gone. Either way, she would have ended up dead. Even if she and Riggs had never hooked up in the supermarket, she would have gone to the LAPD eventually. And at that point she would have ended up dead.

I guess her boss had a different idea about what version of the Tango rule was in force....

Nope I disagree: Its played out like Riggs was the instigating factor in her descision.

This is evidenced by the fact that she was still working for them when she met Riggs. But anyways, its all speculation.
So once again we a re forced to go by what is on screen, and that was "she was killed for going with Riggs".

Well the only reason that the dutch chick got killed was that Riggs failed to catch the guys he was after before they attempted to kill him, successfully killing Victoria. His sloppiness in not concluding that investigation lead to them later killing the Dutch chick after she went off with/shagged Riggs.

"There are many things I dont like about my boss, but I like my job very much."

Guess that line is open for interpretation, but to me it says "I am looking for a way out." Riggs just happened to be that way, if it hadnt been him, another way would have presented itself, and they would have killed her just the same.

I know I have Die Hard on my profile. I have told you several times I like McClane as a character more than I like Riggs. But just because I like a character more doesnt mean I am gonna say he wins in a lopsided battle.

Well you have! With Riggs. Havent you...?!!

When all logic goes against you, you just close your eyes and think warm thoughts about old Riggsy until the those nasty wasty truth teller people with their usages of logic on their side go away to leave you in peace in Riggs world..

OK then. Ask yourself this: In h2h battles, which if the two tends to be sloppier?

Ahhhhh thats a tricky question: Both display sloppinesses within their own forms..

So Im gonna deffer to who kills the most people in that scenario and give them the win: that person is McClane.

So it's back to the "more kills makes a better h2h combatant" tact?

A more prolific and reliable one. Yeah.

And on hiring day, Im gonna take that guy on, rather than the one who tries to be flash, but fails.

Your problem is, that you equate big flashy ballet shit that relies heavily on complaince for the opponent (movie fighting) with fighting.
And you are fooled by the asthetics.

Without a choreographer, in a real world fight, Riggs'd get raped to death by someone of McClane's power delivering the more basic stuff.. therefore, in the realms of H2H fighting, I'd pick McClane.

(And thats without mentioning McClane's superior Endurance, Stamina, Mercilessness (most of the time except where he let Ninja chick live and almost sufffered consequences as a result) and luck etc. that make him even more )

Riggs was dominated with some very basic boxing.
Riggs martial arts guards'd have no answer for the blows being rained down by McClane. Whereas McClanes endurance and chin will see him through easily against what Riggs would have to offer.

Nah, I am going with who has a better record in battles that start and finish h2h. That is, if I am looking to hire the superior h2h combatant.

And that'd still be McClane.

(Especially as we'd have to discount any that Murtaugh played a part in.)

Really now? McClane has more knowledge and is better trained at h2h combat?

As evidenced by his wins, practically speaking.


It depends what YOU mean by "Better trained" and "Martial arts".

And since we saw that Riggs was unable to beat even a basic bit of boxing, that shows you what all that flashy stuff really is.

And NO WAY could old man Riggs (even way back in the in the LW4) could have been agile enough to deliver his flashier (longer to perform, prone to failure in RL) techniques before McClane would be on him.

And given these few facts:

1) Rigg's "Martial arts" defense cannot cope faced with boxing shots.
2) Riggs'll be to slow to get anything significant in on McClane
3) DH 4.0 McClane'll be smashing the f**k out of old man Riggs (who is around 60ish now)

Its shit-street for the pensioner, Riggs.
And its a good job he'll have false teeth by now as it'd save McClane having to remove them with his left. But the meagre cop pension that Riggs'll have to live on might not cover the trip to the hospital/morgue that Riggs'd need though.

LW4 Riggs, you gotta admit, his fighting style was very similar to McClane's.

Remember the world is full of champion trained shooters who are great on the range, yet fall apart when trying to kill live targets.

Bags dont hit back etc.
Once compliance is removed from the equation, most MA is useless.

So your training at the best of times, is not a guarantee against a bad motherf**ka.

Agreed on that, I have seen it in real life. I knew a guy once who fought golden gloves, but when he got into a street fight, he froze.

There ya go.

Good/lucky for his opponent.
If the guy was a champion, he could have killed a untrained guy in a street fight.

Unless the untrained guy was just a bad mother****er.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Bags dont hit back etc.
Once compliance is removed from the equation, most MA is useless.

So your training at the best of times, is not a guarantee against a bad motherf**ka.

Exactly, those MMA guys are tough in the ring, but surprise then with a thumb in their eye and a grab-twist-yank job on the goody-bag, then what happens.

(probably still get my ass kicked, but you get the point)

Absolutely.

Once McClane has removed what remains of old decrepid Riggs' happy sack with a brutal low uppercut or hook, catching Riggs as tries some airy fairy kick stuff but at old man speed, and without a choreographer telling McClane to stay there and wait for Riggs to connect with a kick, the fight would be over.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Unless the untrained guy was just a bad mother****er.

Yes my logic would suggest so.

But in McClane's case, that would have to be SOME untrained bad motherf***er.

Satan...?

LOST's "Jughead" maybe...?

Sorry, are you implying that Riggs hasnt a clue how to fight dirty or with street tactics?

Nope.

If anything, we were more saying its that kinda thing that saves your ass on the street, more than some gh-h-h-ey Van damme splits manuever or elaborate flashy form based kick..

But now you mention it, if he fights dirty, we dont see it on film.

But trying to take McClane with such tactics, would be like trying to out-wet the Atlantic ocean in a "fight of most liquidy to the death".

Riggs would be better off running away.

























(But he wouldnt be able to do that at his age.)

Not really dirty, but Riggs does fight......questionably? In some scenes.

Questionably indeed.

Why am I thinking you are using that phrase differently than I?

Multiple enemies at once....Riggs pwns.

Yet he couldnt beat Jet Li without Roger.

Riggs is too old now anyway to beat a bus load of old ladies, let alone take down a room of the hardcore dudes that McClane fights.

Seriously. Cheoreographed nonsense, also.

Watch what happens with one against 15 in real life.
In movies, usually the other guys hang back and fight the hero one or two at a time and a more realistic situation, they all pile in and fu*k Rigg's shit up good.

And McClane wouldnt have beaten Jet Li.

In the movie, Riggs rushed into a room unarmed and took out quite a few ARMED mercs.

So...? McClane does that on his way to collect the paper from the porch every morning.

When. What movie.

Oh you want to discuss only what is in movies...? Not speculation...? Ah well then it comes back to the death counts again.

And you know that upsets you.

"Im too old for this shit" -Martin Riggs

Yeah that's what I thought.

Thats what I thought too.

I thought that you'd think that.

That McClane has never done anything like Riggs did in LW1? Correct.

Only more impressive stuff.

The lift scene in DH3 was kickass, as well as taking out a building full of terrorists single handedly, taking out two whole platoons of Riggs-level-trained mercs in 2. Zippo carnage.

Riggs cant do McClane's stuff.
Hell he cant even do his own stuff without Roger half the time.

Anyways we aint talking about LW1 Riggs. Its current Riggs.

Yeah but when he goes one in one h2h he gets pwned.

SO...? He wins in the end. Thats all that matters.

Fights where the guy walks it are boring as f**k to watch.

This is part of why McClane rules.

Riggs is just a highly generic (even if its because Riggs partly defined a genre) Karate Cop.

Doesnt make him a better h2h combatant though.

He would have beat that cop boxer that whipped Rigg's ass, dude.
Id say the fact that he is brutal and kills people H2H is all he needs.

Talk all the shit you want, but theres no avoiding it.

Woulda shoulda coulda. DIDNT.

Maybe Riggs shoulda coulda woulda saved his women.....but didnt/couldnt.

Again, that has no bearing on who is the better h2h combatant.

Martin Riggs aint shit right now dude. Hes most likely in an old folks home in the ward where they put the ones who dribble and eat dog biscuits.

Oh, forgive me, I thought we were talking about Riggs, the fictional character in the movies, and how he performed in said movies.

lol

You know, the Riggs that would hand McClane's own ass to him, h2h.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You know, the Riggs that would hand McClane's own ass to him, h2h.


And McClane doing what McClane always does, would use said ass to kill Riggs with it.

Sure he would.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Oh, forgive me, I thought we were talking about Riggs, the fictional character in the movies, and how he performed in said movies.

Yeah and he was a decrepid old man back in LW4.
So if LW5 gets made hes gonna be what.....21....? No. Closer to 60-70.

Its funny then that you bring that up though.
As McClane beats Riggs at reality too.

(Die Hard 2 shows Holly brushing past an advert for LW2 in a magazine.
There no reference to Die Hard as a being a movie in the LW universe however.)

Originally posted by Robtard
And McClane doing what McClane always does, would use said ass to kill Riggs with it.

lolz
For real.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You know, the Riggs that would hand McClane's own ass to him, h2h.

Not alone he wouldn't.

He couldnt even lift it, without Roger's help, let alone handing hit back to McClane.

Besides..... the only was Riggs is gonna be allowed to get anywhere near McClane's ass, is when he rightly kisses it. Then he may hand it back to his superior, McClane.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Yeah and he was a decrepid old man back in LW4.
So if LW5 gets made hes gonna be what.....21....? No. Closer to 60-70.

Its funny then that you bring that up though.
As McClane beats Riggs at reality too.

(Die Hard 2 shows Holly brushing past an advert for LW2 in a magazine.
There no reference to Die Hard as a being a movie in the LW universe however.) Riggs did better against Jet Li in LW4 than McClane in DH4 would have done.

FACT.

Wanna talk reality? You do realize that Jet fuel, in liquid state, is hard to light, dont you?

kung fu chick>mclane, without much of a fight
kung fu GOD>riggs but not without a fight

they both got their asses kicked but riggs ass is harder than macclane's nypd palooka keister.

Originally posted by Sado22
kung fu chick>mclane, without much of a fight
kung fu GOD>riggs but not without a fight

they both got their asses kicked but riggs ass is harder than macclane's nypd palooka keister.

The only time Riggs gets harder than McClane, is when looking longingly at Murtaugh.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Riggs did better against Jet Li in LW4 than McClane in DH4 would have done.

FACT.

Wanna talk reality? You do realize that Jet fuel, in liquid state, is hard to light, dont you?

Fanboy speculation.



Not for McClane, it isnt.
(It must have been the vapour then.)

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Fanboy speculation.



Not for McClane, it isnt.
(It must have been the vapour then.)

No, fact. The jet left a trail of fuel and McClane ignited it as if it were gasoline.

And the bad people died.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Oh, forgive me, I thought we were talking about Riggs, the fictional character in the movies, and how he performed in said movies.

Alternate and equally true answer:

"Yes. Thats correct. And the trajectory that LW 1-4 had was clear in showing that Riggs'd be a dried up old pissflap breezing in the wind by the time of Die hard 4.0."

Mel Gibson even declined on making LW5.

Fact.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
And the bad people died. In a totally unrealistic fashion, in a way that would never happen in the real world.

So there have never been any explosions caused by jet fuel meeting naked flame before in history...?





GTFOOH!!!!!!

Not that easily.

Well thats how good McClane is, isnt it...?

Its a whole lot more realistic a prospect of reality than that truck being sent in to burn down like a whole housing estate in LW3 for example.
Bullets rarely ignite petrol too.
Including shooting their fuel tanks.

No, really? Dude, they are equal in terms of being unrealistic.

Don't try to drag McClane down to Riggs' level of unreality....

Same river.

Riggs is in far deeper water though, in that regard.

Which means it takes more effort to get OUT of the deeper water.

Cant twist the obvious meaning of the deep water analogy, dude.

Its too pure and don't play that shit.

POV baby.

Yes and Riggs' point of view in the deep water analogy is poor.
Every time he goes in the water its bad.

Danish chick = Dead
And Riggs is shitbeaten and left in a straitjacket.

Pain, near death and Jet Li (more near death) in LW4.

McClane is nowhere near as sloppy in or out of water.

Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view...



Obi Wan Kenobi. Great man, struck down by a Sith Lord, very sad.