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No weapons. Hands-to-hands fight.

A tie?

Law probably wins, unless Liu is able to PIS his way to victory like he does with Shang Tsung and what not.

Meh, Liu beats Law since Liu's more chinese than Law will ever be.

Also, he was able to hold his own and beat back (not sure on that) Shao Khan

Again, PIS. He did the same to Shinnok as well.

Law's win against Baek was PIS uhuh

You also seem to be underestimating Liu a bit.

How so?

Err, attributing every significant victory of his as PIS ?

& his level of Chinese-ness uhuh

How is beating a shape-shifting sorceror who can use Liu's own attacks, an emperor of Outworld, and a ex-Elder God not PIS? I'm not saying Liu's a wimp compared to Law or anything, but still.

Game protagonist clause, where the protagonist somehow wins over the antagonist, that's not necessarily PIS though is it. Meh, it is, at least with respect to Khan and Shinnok.
Liu's been shown to be consistently better than Shang though

The Armageddon intro says otherwise. Tsung not only held his own, but knocked Liu off part of the pyramid. He had to use his little zombie chains to be able to do anything to him.

Meh, not sure about Armageddon, zombie Liu could be attributed as being weaker, or Shang having gotten stronger since then, either way, in their normal encounters, Liu's more than held his own every time.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Meh, not sure about Armageddon, zombie Liu could be attributed as being weaker, or Shang having gotten stronger since then
The thing about zombie Liu being weaker than usual is merely speculation, as it was never stated that he had gotten weaker.
And I doubt Shang had become stronger than normal at the time, seeing as how he (and Quan Chi) had recently got revived after Raiden did a self-destruct attack against Onaga in the Deception intro that destroyed them both.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
either way, in their normal encounters, Liu's more than held his own every time.
Then why couldn't Liu just do the same against him on that pyramid in the MKA intro?

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
The thing about zombie Liu being weaker than usual is merely speculation, as it was never stated that he had gotten weaker.
And I doubt Shang had become stronger than normal at the time, seeing as how he (and Quan Chi) had recently got revived after Raiden did a self-destruct attack against Onaga in the Deception intro that destroyed them both.


Then why couldn't Liu just do the same against him on that pyramid in the MKA intro?

Well, with regards to protagonists, most of them have that inner drive that motivates them to fight (crap I know, it still exists), zombie version had no such drive.

PIS

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Well, with regards to protagonists, most of them have that inner drive that motivates them to fight (crap I know, it still exists), zombie version had no such drive.
Or alternatively, the zombie version did have it, but Tsung just had an even greater drive to get to the top of the pyramid and fight Blaze, especially after having gotten past Khan and Quan Chi on his way up there, right before he fought Liu near the top. Shang's previous defeats also probably motivated him to do better against his enemy there, which he did.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
PIS
Plot induced strength, or plot induced stupidity?

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Or alternatively, the zombie version did have it, but Tsung just had an even greater drive to get to the top of the pyramid and fight Blaze, especially after having gotten past Khan and Quan Chi on his way up there, right before he fought Liu near the top. Shang's previous defeats also probably motivated him to do better against his enemy there, which he did.

Or alternatively, the Zombie version did not have it, but Tsung had what you described first. I'm guessing that Tsung viewed his murder of Liu Kang as retribution, and thus he didn't need that drive. imo, his drive seemed more like what you first stated.

Besides, the zombie version, imo, seemed a little slower than the Liu that appeared in Deadly Alliance's opening.
Also, Tsung merely kicked him off the temple after sparring for a bit, it's a defeat by knock out imo, but if it had been a level arena like the one they fought in in DA, the fight would have lasted much longer.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Plot induced strength, or plot induced stupidity?
Whatever it is that you were referring to when you said Liu's wins were PIS

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
CIS is more like it, not PIS, since Tsung never bothered to use his shape-shifting in their latest battle (Deadly Alliance, not Armageddon). By KMC rules (Comic Vs Forum, don't know if the same rules apply here), I agree, Tsung should win if he uses everything at his disposal wisely.
Ah, forgot about the CIS thing.

But yeah. Now we're on the same page, I guess.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Also, Tsung can only shape-shift into the people who's souls he has take iirc. The shifting into other MK fighters that he hasn't killed was just a gameplay feature.
Not necessarily. I mean, I used to think the same at first, but he actually did transform into other characters whose souls he hadn't taken at least once, in the Deadly Alliance and Armageddon intros. In the DA opening, he was shown morphed as Kung Lao just before he confronted Liu on the Wu Shi Academy grounds (as he was walking behind him), and in the Armageddon intro, he turned into Ermac and used one of his telekinetic attacks to toss Quan Chi all the way off the pyramid. Like all the other combatants, Ermac was fighting someone else before that part, implying Tsung hadn't taken his soul (needless to say, Ermac is actually a collection of souls, but I digress).

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
TSUNG SUCKS IMO, KTHXBAI uhuh
Also, Liu's Flying Kick is not equal to somehow .
But... he's been lame since he came back as a zombie. It's not Liu Kang anymore. It's freakin' Liu Lame! uhuh

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Meh, sorry if you think I went over board with the opinion thing.
It's all right.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Ah, forgot about the CIS thing.

But yeah. Now we're on the same page, I guess.

Yeah...though in the games, it's pretty much Liu Kang > Shang

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime

Not necessarily. I mean, I used to think the same at first, but he actually did transform into other characters whose souls he hadn't taken at least once, in the Deadly Alliance and Armageddon intros. In the DA opening, he was shown morphed as Kung Lao just before he confronted Liu on the Wu Shi Academy grounds (as he was walking behind him), and in the Armageddon intro, he turned into Ermac and used one of his telekinetic attacks to toss Quan Chi all the way off the pyramid. Like all the other combatants, Ermac was fighting someone else before that part, implying Tsung hadn't taken his soul (needless to say, Ermac is actually a collection of souls, but I digress).

It's odd though, his powers/health is directly tied into his soul collecting ability...he shouldn't be able to transform into other characters, or copy them near perfectly, if not perfectly.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime

But... he's been lame since he came back as a zombie. It's not Liu Kang anymore. It's freakin' Liu Lame! uhuh

That's coz it's not really Liu Kang uhuh Shang's only cool now since he has Liu's soul

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yeah...though in the games, it's pretty much Liu Kang > Shang
You mean like gameplay-wise or story-wise?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
It's odd though, his powers/health is directly tied into his soul collecting ability...he shouldn't be able to transform into other characters, or copy them near perfectly, if not perfectly.
True. Perhaps he's just able to copy most characters' forms (and their attacks) near perfectly by looking at them/observing their fighting skills. It's all sorcery, so ya never know I guess.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
That's coz it's not really Liu Kang uhuh Shang's only cool now since he has Liu's soul
He actually lost it after Raiden suicided against Onaga, which destroyed him, Shang, and Quan (and in the process, freed all the other souls Shang captured before, but he was still brought back prior to Armageddon, like everyone else was). Liu wouldn't of come back as a zombie if Shang managed to keep his soul the entire time.

Tsung also took the soul of Liu's ancestor, the Great Kung Lao (the original version, not the modern day one that you see in the games). Another reason he's cool. uhuh

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
You mean like gameplay-wise or story-wise?


True. Perhaps he's just able to copy most characters' forms (and their attacks) near perfectly by looking at them/observing their fighting skills. It's all sorcery, so ya never know I guess.


He actually lost it after Raiden suicided against Onaga, which destroyed him, Shang, and Quan (and in the process, freed all the other souls Shang captured before, but he was still brought back prior to Armageddon, like everyone else was). Liu wouldn't of come back as a zombie if Shang managed to keep his soul the entire time.

Tsung also took the soul of Liu's ancestor, the Great Kung Lao (the original version, not the modern day one that you see in the games). Another reason he's cool. uhuh

The latter...don't play much with Liu Kang so can't compare the two gameplay-wise.

Shang has so many things wrong about him. Pity the writers nerf him in most of his fights Quan Chi beating him, that PIS in your opinion?

Raiden just reanimated it after he (Raiden) reformed in Deception, Liu's soul never was in it when he reanimated it.

He needed Goro to beat Kung Lao (I'm aware of who the Great KL is), another reason he's not cool biscuits

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
The latter...don't play much with Liu Kang so can't compare the two gameplay-wise.
Ah.
I find myself to be best with Tsung and Scorpion (in basically any games that they're in), so meh.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Shang has so many things wrong about him. Pity the writers nerf him in most of his fights Quan Chi beating him, that PIS in your opinion?
Pretty much, unless he has some kind of ability to morph into others and stuff too, but he didn't last I checked. For someone who was the first real MK villain, you'd think they'd do Tsung more justice than that.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Raiden just reanimated it after he (Raiden) reformed in Deception, Liu's soul never was in it when he reanimated it.
Oh..

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
He needed Goro to beat Kung Lao (I'm aware of who the Great KL is), another reason he's not cool biscuits
But even then, he's been said/known to be far more dangerous than Goro. uhuh If it were the opposite, I'm sure Goro would've overthrown him at some point and became grandmaster of the Mortal Kombat tournaments.


Come to think of it, I don't see why Shang didn't just morph into Goro (like he sometimes does in the very 1st MK game) against the Great Kung Lao.

So many inconsistencies with his powers...

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Ah.
I find myself to be best with Tsung and Scorpion (in basically any games that they're in), so meh.

Scorpion as well here, Sub-Zero & Raiden.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime

Pretty much, unless he has some kind of ability to morph into others and stuff too, but he didn't last I checked. For someone who was the first real MK villain, you'd think they'd do Tsung more justice than that.


He could, given that he's around the same level, if not higher, when it comes to sorcery.

Meh, they did do some justice with the DA arc, though those three fighting together should have brought down Onaga...doesn't make sense, since Shunjiko brought him down later (don't remember how though)

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Oh..

Yah...hence why Liu wasn't cool then uhuh

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
But even then, he's been said/known to be far more dangerous than Goro. uhuh If it were the opposite, I'm sure Goro would've overthrown him at some point and became grandmaster of the Mortal Kombat tournaments.


Come to think of it, I don't see why Shang didn't just morph into Goro (like he sometimes does in the very 1st MK game) against the Great Kung Lao.

So many inconsistencies with his powers...

Goro was a Prince of the Shokan, I think loyalty went a long way in his book at that time. Besides, he got to beat up people and feel good about it

Too proud to have 4 arms uhuh...he also strikes me as the kind of person who's just happy enough if he gets the soul of a strong warrior, doesn't matter to him how that person was beaten.

True that.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Scorpion as well here, Sub-Zero & Raiden.
Nice.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
He could, given that he's around the same level, if not higher, when it comes to sorcery.
Perhaps, but Quan Chi's never been shown to do it before. Him and Tsung are like bipolar opposites when it comes to sorcery. Each has something the other lacks (Tsung has morphing & soul stealing powers, as well as some control over fire/fireballs, while Quan has... green skulls and other stuff Shang doesn't). Part of why they made such a good team when they were together, up until Onaga came.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Meh, they did do some justice with the DA arc, though those three fighting together should have brought down Onaga...doesn't make sense, since Shunjiko brought him down later (don't remember how though)
Extreme resistence against magic and projectiles is just one of Onaga's natural abilities (along with being able to bring back others from the dead. Hence the whole "undefeatable army" thing). The 6 Kamidogu Shujinko gathered though made Onaga's body even more durable, which I suppose was how he survived the onslaught of Raiden, Shang, and Quan with little to no damage (the Kamidogu were said to have actually made him invulnerable), but in Shujinko's ending, he shattered the Kamidogu, thus weakening Onaga long enough for him to make the killing strike (the dragon king was rescued by Shinnok at the last second anyway though, thus returning with the other villains in Armageddon).

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Goro was a Prince of the Shokan, I think loyalty went a long way in his book at that time. Besides, he got to beat up people and feel good about it
Yeah. Loyalty did go a long way in his book, but so did deception.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Too proud to have 4 arms uhuh...he also strikes me as the kind of person who's just happy enough if he gets the soul of a strong warrior, doesn't matter to him how that person was beaten.
Indeed.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Nice.

Merci...that's thank you if you don't understand French.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime

Perhaps, but Quan Chi's never been shown to do it before. Him and Tsung are like bipolar opposites when it comes to sorcery. Each has something the other lacks (Tsung has morphing & soul stealing powers, as well as some control over fire/fireballs, while Quan has... green skulls and other stuff Shang doesn't). Part of why they made such a good team when they were together, up until Onaga came.

I guess, though originally, Soul stealing wasn't part of Shang's repertoire, he was cursed iirc. Quan Chi also does seem to command a green fire of sorts. Pity they didn't stay as a team after they were brought back.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Extreme resistence against magic and projectiles is just one of Onaga's natural abilities (along with being able to bring back others from the dead. Hence the whole "undefeatable army" thing). The 6 Kamidogu Shujinko gathered though made Onaga's body even more durable, which I suppose was how he survived the onslaught of Raiden, Shang, and Quan with little to no damage (the Kamidogu were said to have actually made him invulnerable), but in Shujinko's ending, he shattered the Kamidogu, thus weakening Onaga long enough for him to make the killing strike (the dragon king was rescued by Shinnok at the last second anyway though, thus returning with the other villains in Armageddon).

Ahh, yeah, I had forgotten that detail. Still, being able to have the chance to strike a killing blow against a character like Onaga, depowered or not, is kind of PIS.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Yeah. Loyalty did go a long way in his book, but so did deception.

That was just once hmh...I think.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Merci...that's thank you if you don't understand French.
Ah, I don't. Only know some spanish as my alt language.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I guess, though originally, Soul stealing wasn't part of Shang's repertoire, he was cursed iirc. Quan Chi also does seem to command a green fire of sorts. Pity they didn't stay as a team after they were brought back.
The whole "curse" thing with Tsung never really made sense to me, but all right, I guess..
And yeah, I agree with the 2nd notion.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Ahh, yeah, I had forgotten that detail. Still, being able to have the chance to strike a killing blow against a character like Onaga, depowered or not, is kind of PIS.
Indeed, and so is poisoning him, which was what Shao Kahn did to take over as emperor of Outworld (he used to be Onaga's servant or something before that). Kahn could never beat the dragon king in a straight fight if he tried of course, so he had to do somethin' like that.
I kinda hope there comes a time when Onaga canonically gets his revenge against Khan for doing that (something along the lines of what he did to Kahn in his Armageddon ending ).

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
That was just once hmh...I think.
mmm

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Ah, I don't. Only know some spanish as my alt language.

Pity. Gracias then.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime

The whole "curse" thing with Tsung never really made sense to me, but all right, I guess..
And yeah, I agree with the 2nd notion.

Remember it being mentioned in a game, so it must be true .
Speaking of which, the Scorpion that appears in Deception, has he been amped (he was given powers to beat Onaga iirc)?
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime

Indeed, and so is poisoning him, which was what Shao Kahn did to take over as emperor of Outworld (he used to be Onaga's servant or something before that). Kahn could never beat the dragon king in a straight fight if he tried of course, so he had to do somethin' like that.
I kinda hope there comes a time when Onaga canonically gets his revenge against Khan for doing that (something along the lines of what he did to Kahn in his Armageddon ending ).

Hehe, yeah Shao Kahn was to Onaga what Shang was to Kahn. Seems like Shang should have become emperor .
I thought they would do a 're-boot' of the series after Armageddon?

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime

mmm

There was more than one time shock?

Liu Was clearly allot shitter as a Zombie, I mean compare how well he moves between the two and there's your answer.

Liu wins.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Come to think of it, I don't see why Shang didn't just morph into Goro (like he sometimes does in the very 1st MK game) against the Great Kung Lao.

So many inconsistencies with his powers...

Well he didn't meet Goro at that time so that may be why.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
The thing with Scorpion having his powers amped by the Elder Gods (allowing him to beat Onaga) was just a non-canon ending in Deception.

Scorpion was amped by the Elder Gods. I think it was mentioned somewhere in Deception.

Originally posted by Kinkin
Liu Was clearly allot shitter as a Zombie, I mean compare how well he moves between the two and there's your answer.
It was never stated in his bios or anything that he had become weaker as a zombie, so it's all just speculation. By that same logic of yours, I can argue that Liu was actually greater as a zombie because of the fact he did twice the normal amount of damage against Onaga when using him in Deception.

Yeah. Liu gets some newfound strength out of nowhere against the final boss in that game.

Originally posted by Kinkin
Liu wins.
And how does he beat Law in an even fight?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Ahh, I thought he got amped in the beginning. Still, would have been nice if his amp was canon.
I guess, but then what of Shujinko?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
He gains power to combat the elder gods?
Onaga does in his unused ending, yeah (and beats them). There was also a 2nd pic of that ending where he's seen merging the Kamidogu/realms with himself, but I can't seem to find it anywhere anymore for some reason.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Heh, the game was alright, though Dark Khan was crap, powerful, but crap. I never knew they went bankrupt.
Indeed, sadly.

As for Dark Khan, yeah, but I don't even feel like going there again to be honest. Just be glad he's not a canon character. Why would he be?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Doesn't count uhuh

I remember that movie/cartoon :rofl:...the 3D sequences look really corny now.
Though it was well-done for its time (early 90's shit).

Originally posted by SmashBro
Well he didn't meet Goro at that time so that may be why.
Ah, true. I guess he has to see someone first before being able to mimic them to any extent.

Originally posted by SmashBro
Scorpion was amped by the Elder Gods. I think it was mentioned somewhere in Deception.
Yeah, but he still got beat by Shujinko. Then he got mad when the Elder Gods didn't revive his Shirai Ryu clan (some rival of the Lin Kuei) the way he wanted them to, and decided to betray them by attempting to kill Taven (and his brother presumably).

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
And how does he beat Law in an even fight?

Flying kick


















313

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime

I guess, but then what of Shujinko?

Are you referring to Shunjinko's victory over Scorpion (is that canon?) or what would happen to him if Scorpion beat Onaga?
If the latter...Scorpion was always more popular than Shunjinko, and Raiden can take care of him

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime

Onaga does in his unused ending, yeah (and beats them). There was also a 2nd pic of that ending where he's seen merging the Kamidogu/realms with himself, but I can't seem to find it anywhere anymore for some reason.

No matter. It'll probably be up on youtube or something.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime

Indeed, sadly.

As for Dark Khan, yeah, but I don't even feel like going there again to be honest. Just be glad he's not a canon character. Why would he be?



Won't force you to. Fact that his power probably makes Onaga look like a joke (if he really does have the power of Darkseid + Shao Kahn combined)...if it were a DBZ fusion that brought them together...wow.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Though it was well-done for its time (early 90's shit).

Hence why I said 'looks corny NOW'

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Are you referring to Shunjinko's victory over Scorpion (is that canon?) or what would happen to him if Scorpion beat Onaga?
The first one.

And yeah, it was canon.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
If the latter...Scorpion was always more popular than Shunjinko
Yeah, but to be fair, he's only been in 2 games thus far, though I do like Scorpion better as well, but Shujinko's still probably my favorite good guy in the series. Scorpion's more of an anti-hero.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
and Raiden can take care of him
Only if he lets him. In Raiden's MKD ending, Shujinko didn't even attack him (or was hesitant) because he thought they were still on the same side, unaware of the recent corruption that tainted the Thunder God's soul after his suicide against Onaga.
If Shujinko hadn't hesitated, he would've easily defended himself against Raiden since he has the ability to absorb the combat essence of any fighter he encounters (Raiden's no exception. Shujinko even gets to use some of Raiden's special attacks as his own when playing as him, either by unlocking those said moves in the Krypt in Deception, or just selecting Shujinko off the bat in Armageddon).

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Won't force you to. Fact that his power probably makes Onaga look like a joke
His power makes anyone in Mortal Kombat (and most DC characters) look like a joke, but even that didn't make him a likable villain. Dark Khan basically had no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Just hearing his voice and terrible lines made me want to turn off the game.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
(if he really does have the power of Darkseid + Shao Kahn combined)... if it were a DBZ fusion that brought them together...wow.
Not sure if he had the power of both characters combined or not, but Shao Kahn isn't that powerful at all compared to Darkseid technically (no one in MK is in a league with Darkseid), so the result of the fusion shouldn't of been as powerful as it turned out to be. Realistically, I imagine Darkseid fusing with Kahn would be comparable to Goku fusing with Hercule (or somethin' like that), not a Gotenks or Vegito-like fusion with 2 equally strong fighters forming together. The gap/difference between Darkseid's and Shao Kahn's strength is so big it's not even funny.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
The first one.

And yeah, it was canon.

Huh, my respect for Shunjinko just went up.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Yeah, but to be fair, he's only been in 2 games thus far, though I do like Scorpion better as well, but Shujinko's still probably my favorite good guy in the series. Scorpion's more of an anti-hero.

True, but even if he had been in the same number of games as Scorpion, he probably wouldn't be as popular. These days, older teens tend to prefer anti-heroic characters to good characters that have some sort of flaw or have made a mistake. (Shadow's popularity vs. Knuckles' being a good example. His gullibility has thrown off so many people. Pity)

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Only if he lets him. In Raiden's MKD ending, Shujinko didn't even attack him (or was hesitant) because he thought they were still on the same side, unaware of the recent corruption that tainted the Thunder God's soul after his suicide against Onaga.
If Shujinko hadn't hesitated, he would've easily defended himself against Raiden since he has the ability to absorb the combat essence of any fighter he encounters (Raiden's no exception. Shujinko even gets to use some of Raiden's special attacks as his own when playing as him, either by unlocking those said moves in the Krypt in Deception, or just selecting Shujinko off the bat in Armageddon).

Was a joke ...so...much...wasted...time. Pity .

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
His power makes anyone in Mortal Kombat (and most DC characters) look like a joke, but even that didn't make him a likable villain. Dark Khan basically had no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Just hearing his voice and terrible lines made me want to turn off the game.

For me, twas his design, doesn't resemble Kahn in the least, and not so much Darkseid either.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Not sure if he had the power of both characters combined or not, but Shao Kahn isn't that powerful at all compared to Darkseid technically (no one in MK is in a league with Darkseid), so the result of the fusion shouldn't of been as powerful as it turned out to be. Realistically, I imagine Darkseid fusing with Kahn would be comparable to Goku fusing with Hercule (or somethin' like that), not a Gotenks or Vegito-like fusion with 2 equally strong fighters forming together. The gap/difference between Darkseid's and Shao Kahn's strength is so big it's not even funny.

True, but wasn't Darkseid powered down though in that game? Or at least, wouldn't he have been powered down? If he was, it would make his power equal somewhat to Kahn's, and that fusion would be more powerful.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
True, but even if he had been in the same number of games as Scorpion, he probably wouldn't be as popular. These days, older teens tend to prefer anti-heroic characters to good characters that have some sort of flaw or have made a mistake. (Shadow's popularity vs. Knuckles' being a good example. His gullibility has thrown off so many people. Pity)
True that. I guess Shujinko wouldn't really out-popular Scorpion then, but I'm sure he would've been more liked than Liu Kang and Kung Lao at least, had he been in the same number of games for the most part. Not like there's anyone Liu and Lao have beaten that Shujinko can't.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Was a joke ...so...much...wasted...time. Pity .
It hardly sounded like a joke to me with the way you said it, but whatever. Then again, I have seen at least a couple users say what you said about Raiden and Shujinko and were serious about it (Shujinko is really underestimated for some reason).

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
For me, twas his design, doesn't resemble Kahn in the least, and not so much Darkseid either.
Actually, it does resemble them if you observe close enough. His skeleton-like face is from Shao Kahn's mask, the skin color obviously came from Darkseid. The glowing from Dark Kahn's body is from Darkseid as well (because when you fight Darkseid, some damage will be shown on him by having a small chunk of skin missing and under that skin, there's an orange glow), and the spikes on the back are probably from the spikes Shao Kahn had on his shoulder and knee pads or whatever.
(only noticed all that because I had been beating the arcade mode with everyone, and saw Dark Khan a lot as a result)

Still, I agree that the design was pretty bad, or bland rather. Even looked like a Blaze knockoff (had the same body build as Blaze in Armageddon and what not).

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
True, but wasn't Darkseid powered down though in that game?
The whole thing with certain characters' powers increasing and decreasing was because of Dark Khan merging the 2 universes together. Darkseid was never "powered down" so to speak because he wasn't there at all until he and Kahn (as well as the 2 universes) became separate again.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Or at least, wouldn't he have been powered down?
I guess... I dunno. MKvsDC was just so full of plot holes and inconsistencies that you couldn't make sense out of most of it, as opposed to other MK games that had at least some form of rationality.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
True that. I guess Shujinko wouldn't really out-popular Scorpion then, but I'm sure he would've been more liked than Liu Kang and Kung Lao at least, had he been in the same number of games for the most part. Not like there's anyone Liu and Lao have beaten that Shujinko can't.



Not arguing that Shunjiko could beat Liu, and especially Lao, since he could have taken out Onaga, even if he was depowered.
Liu's shouts did get on people's nerves though, I guess that's something that gets on people's nerves.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime

It hardly sounded like a joke to me with the way you said it, but whatever. Then again, I have seen at least a couple users say what you said about Raiden and Shujinko and were serious about it (Shujinko is really underestimated for some reason).



Said it?
Perhaps using the 313 would have helped to convey my intentions with that particular statement. I apologize for the relative ambiguity.

(Does somewhat lack canon feats, when compared to other characters like Tsung & Raiden)

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime

Actually, it does resemble them if you observe close enough. His skeleton-like face is from Shao Kahn's mask, the skin color obviously came from Darkseid. The glowing from Dark Kahn's body is from Darkseid as well (because when you fight Darkseid, some damage will be shown on him by having a small chunk of skin missing and under that skin, there's an orange glow), and the spikes on the back are probably from the spikes Shao Kahn had on his shoulder and knee pads or whatever.
(only noticed all that because I had been beating the arcade mode with everyone, and saw Dark Khan a lot as a result)

Still, I agree that the design was pretty bad, or bland rather. Even looked like a Blaze knockoff (had the same body build as Blaze in Armageddon and what not).



True, but I'm doubtful most people will move their faces close enough to properly observe his features.

True, hopefully they won't revive him as a character again, however unlikely. Seeing him again (provided they used the same design and features etc.) would piss most fans off.

Wonder what the result would have been if it were Onaga & Darkseid, they seem like equals (not according to power, merely standing, like Raiden & Superman)
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime

The whole thing with certain characters' powers increasing and decreasing was because of Dark Khan merging the 2 universes together. Darkseid was never "powered down" so to speak because he wasn't there at all until he and Kahn (as well as the 2 universes) became separate again.



Noted.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime

I guess... I dunno. MKvsDC was just so full of plot holes and inconsistencies that you couldn't make sense out of most of it, as opposed to other MK games that had at least some form of rationality.

I guess they tried to imitate the idea of a game & comic universe, like the Street Fighter & Marvel cross-overs.


(We should probably have an MK Discussion thread. This has gone waaaaay off-topic)

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Not arguing that Shunjiko could beat Liu, and especially Lao, since he could have taken out Onaga, even if he was depowered.
Liu's shouts did get on people's nerves though, I guess that's something that gets on people's nerves.
Including mine, especially when a Liu player spams the bicycle kick or the flying side kick to kingdom come.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Said it?
Perhaps using the 313 would have helped to convey my intentions with that particular statement. I apologize for the relative ambiguity.

(Does somewhat lack canon feats, when compared to other characters like Tsung & Raiden)
True.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
True, hopefully they won't revive him as a character again, however unlikely. Seeing him again (provided they used the same design and features etc.) would piss most fans off.
Yep, especially if he were to come back in an unexplained manner like most of the characters did when it came to Armageddon (they were just there for the sake of having every fighter from the previous games in one single roster), not that it would be possible for Dark Khan to come back anyway since the two that formed him were separated and imprisoned.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Wonder what the result would have been if it were Onaga & Darkseid, they seem like equals (not according to power, merely standing, like Raiden & Superman)
Yeah, I randomly had that thought awhile back ironically. I guess even it would be a better fusion than Dark Khan, though I'm not sure how it would be named exactly. heh

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I guess they tried to imitate the idea of a game & comic universe, like the Street Fighter & Marvel cross-overs.

(We should probably have an MK Discussion thread. This has gone waaaaay off-topic)
Yeah, it was obvious they were going for a game of that kind of success.
I don't mind the existence/idea of a crossover being applied to MK. It's just the story and main villain of MKvsDC had so much wrong with it, I'd prefer the whole thing/script be scrapped and redone, if anything.

As for that last part... sure?

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Including mine, especially when a Liu player spams the bicycle kick or the flying side kick to kingdom come.

Yep. Perhaps he'll flying kick-spam cry his way to victory against Law 313

He still takes this though

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Yep, especially if he were to come back in an unexplained manner like most of the characters did when it came to Armageddon (they were just there for the sake of having every fighter from the previous games in one single roster), not that it would be possible for Dark Khan to come back anyway since the two that formed him were separated and imprisoned.

Yep. Perhaps if a sequel were made, they'll be just two separate characters with no 'fusion.'
A DC vs. fighting game should be made though, Flash should be a dream to control.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime

Yeah, I randomly had that thought awhile back ironically. I guess even it would be a better fusion than Dark Khan, though I'm not sure how it would be named exactly. heh

Onaseid? Daraga? Donagaseid?

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime

Yeah, it was obvious they were going for a game of that kind of success.
I don't mind the existence/idea of a crossover being applied to MK. It's just the story and main villain of MKvsDC had so much wrong with it, I'd prefer the whole thing/script be scrapped and redone, if anything.

As for that last part... sure?

For some reason though, the control of the characters isn't as fine as it is in Tekken imo, it's more clunky like the Soul Series.

Meh, would probably just be me & you discussing at first, and that would soon end anyway. I guess not, unless there are other MK fans here.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yep. Perhaps he'll flying kick-spam cry his way to victory against Law 313

He still takes this though
What an honerable way to win.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yep. Perhaps if a sequel were made, they'll be just two separate characters with no 'fusion.'
A DC vs. fighting game should be made though, Flash should be a dream to control.
I was fine with the Flash in MKvsDC, except when fighting him online sometimes, but nothing Scorpion's Self Immolate and Hellfire Punch couldn't handle for the most part, though I wish he still had the fiery backflip kick in that game. Still pleased with him in MKvsDC otherwise as far as gameplay goes, like with Shang Tsung, except when it came to his toned down fatalities, which made the soul steal finisher look like a joke, as oppsed to the Deadly Alliance version of it.

But lol @ Flash's fatalities.
Sorry, heroic brutalities.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Onaseid? Daraga? Donagaseid?
Any of those sound better than Dark Khan, but I guess I'll go with the first one.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
For some reason though, the control of the characters isn't as fine as it is in Tekken imo, it's more clunky like the Soul Series.
True.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Meh, would probably just be me & you discussing at first, and that would soon end anyway. I guess not, unless there are other MK fans here.
There are, but some don't post as much anymore.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
What an honerable way to win.


Would still win though, if Law finds it as annoying as most people do >.<...forfeit.

PS: It's honorable.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime

I was fine with the Flash in MKvsDC, except when fighting him online sometimes, but nothing Scorpion's Self Immolate and Hellfire Punch couldn't handle for the most part, though I wish he still had the fiery backflip kick in that game. Still pleased with him in MKvsDC otherwise as far as gameplay goes, like with Shang Tsung, except when it came to his toned down fatalities, which made the soul steal finisher look like a joke, as oppsed to the Deadly Alliance version of it.

But lol @ Flash's fatalities.
Sorry, heroic brutalities.

True, but if he were akin to how he is in comics, as in too fast for virtually anyone to touch, pretty much a winner there
Didn't they tone down a lot of fatalities?

Especially Superman's, he freezes them, then smashes them, but it isn't a fatality?
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime

Any of those sound better than Dark Khan, but I guess I'll go with the first one.

Dark Kahn sounds okay imo, be glad it wasn't Shaoseid >.<.
You can come up with names too 131

True.

Speaking of which, have you played Tekken 6?

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
There are, but some don't post as much anymore.

That blows. Ahh well perhaps in due time, there will be more posters.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Would still win though, if Law finds it as annoying as most people do >.<...forfeit.

PS: It's honorable.
That's assuming Law's dumb enough to get beaten by someone at Liu's level who uses only one single move, or two.

I know. Wasn't paying enough attention to the spelling until it was too late for me to edit.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
True, but if he were akin to how he is in comics, as in too fast for virtually anyone to touch, pretty much a winner there
Well, of course. They had to tone him down for the game. They'd have to tone down the Flash for pretty much any game actually, with as fast as he is.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Didn't they tone down a lot of fatalities?
Yep. Pretty much all of them... They're lametalities now.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Especially Superman's, he freezes them, then smashes them, but it isn't a fatality?
I believe there was one finishing move of his that involved his freeze breath, but it was done in a less violent way than what you described. I forget.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Speaking of which, have you played Tekken 6?

That blows. Ahh well perhaps in due time, there will be more posters.
Not yet I haven't, though I do like that one Egyptian-like creature that resembles Ogre from the previous games (Onaga basically looks like a fusion of all of Ogre's forms put together, but that's probably just coincidence).

As for the second part, yeah. Maybe.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
That's assuming Law's dumb enough to get beaten by someone at Liu's level who uses only one single move, or two.

He'd win if he spammed Bicycle kick (from sheer annoyance)...he doesn't spam it though

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
I know. Wasn't paying enough attention to the spelling until it was too late for me to edit.

Was just a jibe.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Well, of course. They had to tone him down for the game. They'd have to tone down the Flash for pretty much any game actually, with as fast as he is.

I know, that's what sucks. I wish they'd make a game where you could control the Flash in all his glory. Won't work in a fighting game of course, but a sandbox style would.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Yep. Pretty much all of them... They're lametalities now.

Indeed, perhaps as a way to lower the rating.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
I believe there was one finishing move of his that involved his freeze breath, but it was done in a less violent way than what you described. I forget.

Still, smashing frozen person = fatality. Which makes me wonder how Sub-Zero can't win so easily in-game >.< Perhaps he just freezes the air around them and not the actual person.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Not yet I haven't, though I do like that one Egyptian-like creature that resembles Ogre from the previous games (Onaga basically looks like a fusion of all of Ogre's forms put together, but that's probably just coincidence).

Azazel? Yeah, he looked better in Tekken 6 than he did in T6:BR imo. Devil Jin's also been somewhat overpowered. Who are you best with in that series?

Not that last form that appeared in Devil Within though (Was hard to make out its details, so I may be wrong, also I'm assuming you were referring to Tekken)

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
He'd win if he spammed Bicycle kick (from sheer annoyance)...he doesn't spam it though
And that's the thing.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I know, that's what sucks. I wish they'd make a game where you could control the Flash in all his glory. Won't work in a fighting game of course, but a sandbox style would.
Yeah, that's true.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Indeed, perhaps as a way to lower the rating.
Which was unnecessary within itself. MK has always been rated M beforehand, and DC comics have had some pretty gruesome stuff too, like with the Joker. Warner Brothers just got their panties all tied in a bunch.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Still, smashing frozen person = fatality. Which makes me wonder how Sub-Zero can't win so easily in-game >.< Perhaps he just freezes the air around them and not the actual person.
Perhaps...

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Azazel? Yeah, he looked better in Tekken 6 than he did in T6:BR imo. Devil Jin's also been somewhat overpowered. Who are you best with in that series?

Not that last form that appeared in Devil Within though (Was hard to make out its details, so I may be wrong, also I'm assuming you were referring to Tekken)
Azazel. Yep, that's the one. Just forgot his name at first.

As for the last part, yeah. Of course I was referring to that.

And I'm probably best with Yoshimitsu and Nina Williams. Something along the lines of them.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
And that's the thing.

Haha, got your point.
Law still lacks feats though

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime

Which was unnecessary within itself. MK has always been rated M beforehand, and DC comics have had some pretty gruesome stuff too, like with the Joker. Warner Brothers just got their panties all tied in a bunch.

True, Joker's card fatality is pretty brutal itself. Under Rage, even the heroes should have committed fatalities I guess.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime

Perhaps...

Inconsistencies >.<

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime

Azazel. Yep, that's the one. Just forgot his name at first.

As for the last part, yeah. Of course I was referring to that.

And I'm probably best with Yoshimitsu and Nina Williams. Something along the lines of them.

No matter.

Thought so, wasn't sure at first since there might be other characters called Ogre

Nice, they're pretty complex to master properly. King's grapples, while powerful, are complicated, and his initial grapples are also reversible >.<...somewhat applies to Nina as well iirc.

Mine are Paul, Kazuya & Jin...in that order, but pretty proficient will all three...pretty weird considering their DP colors in 4 are all shades of red, but that's just a stupid coincidence.
Heihachi's EWGF is harder to pull off, one reason why I'm not as proficient with him.
Hwoarang's got the best mix-up game, pity I haven't mastered him yet >.<