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Can it be that be true? That Nature is God?

I was thinking about this. And as we know Nature: "the element" is responsible for everything that's ever happened or has ever been created, ever. From the particles inside sub-atoms in the smallest grain of beach sand there is, to outer-space and beyond our galaxy and even the whole universe, and past that too, including time. All of everything that ever was, is, and will be was created, in essence by a natural force: Nature.

And to further explain, people will say God created Nature, that Mother Nature or "Gaia" is Nature but I think I believe that this Nature thing is what we humans refer to as God. Here's why I think so..

I believe people may call it God to put a name on it just to have some kind of controlled understanding of it cause of course not "knowing" breeds either madness or fear in a human's nature naturally, and we can't live like that.

Nature is the creator. And God is our name we gave it.

If you kinda look at it. You can replace the word God in the Bible with the word Nature for every time He's mentioned and it would perfectly be relevant and sensible to the whole story still..

That's my take.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
If you kinda look at it. You can replace the word God in the Bible with the word Nature for every time He's mentioned and it would perfectly be relevant and sensible to the whole story still..

For Nature so loved the world, Nature gave his only begotten son.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
For Nature so loved the world, Nature gave his only begotten son.

Yes. But instead of "His" say "it." And that's even if Jesus was conceived that way. From what we know now, it is impossible to naturally create a human being with one human without another humans cells.

The only reason it might not make sense is because it's saying that Nature, which it can't, can have a single special human being above all that's meant to come from the clouds one unknown day and save us all from unproven evil doom if we listen to what he's said and follow his rules as best and as sincerely as we can according to some writer in the middle-east with a toga and sandals probably pissed as fcuk at epic-brutal Roman oppression.

There wasn't an only begotten Son cause it's not natural or even logical or scientifically possible to have a person that way.

If Jesus existed, he was a (natural) human being with flesh, bones, and blood: Fact. And Nature is God. That's why "His" name (that we gave it) could be sensibly replaced.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
There wasn't an only begotten Son cause it's not natural or even logical or scientifically possible to have a person that way.

If Jesus existed, he was a (natural) human being with flesh, bones, and blood: Fact. And Nature is God. That's why "His" name (that we gave it) could be sensibly replaced.

I have the distinct impression you don't know what "only begotten means".

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I have the distinct impression you don't know what "only begotten means".

Then your instincts have failed you profoundly. Surely I know what "Only begotten Son" means. It still doesn't make it physically possible be conceived in that way, no matter what you feel.

What, just cause someone long ago wrote so? C'mon man..

Nature is God. They are one in the same save the fables human imagination untruthfully but understandably adds to it either verbally via preaching and/or in writing via the bible. All just to make the scheme seem more purposeful and important to us.

Nature is behind it all. Everything. All of it.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Then your instincts have failed you profoundly. Surely I know what "Only begotten Son" means. It still doesn't make it physically possible be conceived in that way, no matter what you feel.

Please, tell me what "only begotten son" means and explain why it is impossible.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Nature is God. They are one in the same save the fables human imagination untruthfully but understandably adds to it either verbally via preaching and/or in writing via the bible. All just to make the scheme seem more purposeful and important to us.

Nature is behind it all. Everything. All of it.

That's certainly a way of looking at it.

natures not God. God's doesn't exist....nature does.

zing!

More like the universe is alive.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Can it be that be true? That Nature is God?
"Pantheism" equates nature with God. But this only accounts for God's immanence, not God's transcendence.

Originally posted by Mindship
"Pantheism" equates nature with God. But this only accounts for God's immanence, not God's transcendence.

Does Shinto cover both? Everything contains a spirit.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Please, tell me what "only begotten son" means and explain why it is impossible.

When someone is "Begotten" it means that they were procreated, the thing is, is that it is impossible to be born the way Jesus was said and written to be born because it just phisically is. No human can be ccreated outta basically "thin air". But the Bible doesn't seen to mean that. They mean it literally.

It practically reads that some non-evidentiary spook in the sky magically put a "special" fetus in another humans stomach. lol!?

Man please. Mary got spermed. Either that or the story was completely made up for the reasons I've already listed up above. (on my other post)

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Does Shinto cover both? Everything contains a spirit. I don't think Shinto covers the transcendent part. Also, strictly speaking, everything in nature containing a spirit is not the same as everything in nature all containing One Big Spirit.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North


Begotten means born/procreated, as you said. The phrase "only begotten son" describes nothing impossible, though immaculate conception is impossible as far as we know. Many people are the "only begotten son" of their families.

Originally posted by LDHZenkai
natures not God. God's doesn't exist....nature does.

zing!

God the word (or being) is made up by the human imagination to be used as a symbol to represent Nature.

Which is really odd considering that "nature" is the word we made up to describe nature.

Originally posted by Mindship
"Pantheism" equates nature with God. But this only accounts for God's immanence, not God's transcendence.

I've never even heard of the word "Pantheism". It's meaning sounds interesting to me though, and i'll read further on it. But one thing. I'm not really equating Nature and God, if that's how i came across, my bad. I mean that Nature is Nature and God is the human given name given to Nature to make it all more "inspiring"..if you may.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Begotten means born/procreated, as you said. The phrase "only begotten son" describes nothing impossible, though immaculate conception is impossible as far as we know. Many people are the "only begotten son" of their families.

But the Bible means "immaculate conception" when it refers to God's only "Begotten" Son.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Which is really odd considering that "nature" is the word we made up to describe nature.

Well, imagination and/or the human mind can be odd sometimes.

And ever heard of synonyms?

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Well, imagination and/or the human mind can be odd sometimes.

And ever heard of synonyms?

I have indeed. But most synonyms emerge from the combination of languages within a single culture or words with distinct (if subtle) differences that are slowly lost.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I have indeed. But most synonyms emerge from the combination of languages within a single culture or words with distinct (if subtle) differences that are slowly lost.

Which is what the meaning and the words Nature and "God" are, in essence, in the human mind, at least. But Nature is the true part of it, that's what i'm trying to explain.

There is a bigger God than Nature and that is Universe. It is unlimited, vast, brought us into existance and can destroy us without ever knowing (or caring) it did it.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
I've never even heard of the word "Pantheism". It's meaning sounds interesting to me though, and i'll read further on it. But one thing. I'm not really equating Nature and God, if that's how i came across, my bad. I mean that Nature is Nature and God is the human given name given to Nature to make it all more "inspiring"..if you may. You should absolutly look into Pantheism, especially Naturalistic Pantheism because what you're saying is very similar to that; its also pretty much what Bitchiness is talking about in the post above me. I'm pretty sure Carl Sagan was a proponent of it, though I might be wrong in that thought.

no, thats like saying all fish are like salmon

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
I've never even heard of the word "Pantheism". It's meaning sounds interesting to me though, and i'll read further on it. But one thing. I'm not really equating Nature and God, if that's how i came across, my bad. I mean that Nature is Nature and God is the human given name given to Nature to make it all more "inspiring"..if you may. Understood. The complexity and elegance of Nature is indeed awesome, and it's not hard to see why--for many throughout history and across cultures--it brings God to mind. But to see God as Nature or call Nature "God" (and by "Nature" I mean the whole of the physical universe, not just trees, streams and animals on Earth) and nothing more makes, IMO, a small God. Again, it says nothing of "His" transcendence, that aspect of God which exists prior to and independent of "His" physical creation.

The mystical literature on any of the main religions tends to cover this Immanence-Transcendence thing fairly well.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
There is a bigger God than Nature and that is Universe. It is unlimited, vast, brought us into existance and can destroy us without ever knowing (or caring) it did it.

I disagree. The theoretical "Big Bang" that created the universe was a natural event caused by Nature, or what we call "God".

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Can it be that be true? That Nature is God?

I was thinking about this. And as we know Nature: "the element" is responsible for everything that's ever happened or has ever been created, ever. From the particles inside sub-atoms in the smallest grain of beach sand there is, to outer-space and beyond our galaxy and even the whole universe, and past that too, including time. All of everything that ever was, is, and will be was created, in essence by a natural force: Nature.

And to further explain, people will say God created Nature, that Mother Nature or "Gaia" is Nature but I think I believe that this Nature thing is what we humans refer to as God. Here's why I think so..

I believe people may call it God to put a name on it just to have some kind of controlled understanding of it cause of course not "knowing" breeds either madness or fear in a human's nature naturally, and we can't live like that.

Nature is the creator. And God is our name we gave it.

If you kinda look at it. You can replace the word God in the Bible with the word Nature for every time He's mentioned and it would perfectly be relevant and sensible to the whole story still..

That's my take.

Nature is the result of God's hand, but it is not God. Everything happends in a natural way but that is because of the organization and process that God put it in.

Originally posted by Tonks
Nature is the result of God's hand, but it is not God. Everything happends in a natural way but that is because of the organization and process that God put it in.

Ok now that's a good explanation. The best i've heard yet. But i still think that Nature's responsible for it all.

Ok. Let's take a Quasar. As we all know quasars are galaxies that are almost a billion light years away. (that's unimaginably far) with active centers that have super massive black holes which currently swallows suns 1000x's the size of our Sun at the rate of about 1000 suns a day. It's the most powerful known force in the universe. Lets say the quasar explodes. Ok, is that an act of nature? Yes.

The thing is, is that the event was purely random, it affected mankind in no way, we didn't even see it happen. It's as if it never happened. But you think it happened because of the organization and process that God put into it? Why would God make something like that far away for no reason?

Why would God make this Quasar explode if it will have no impact on us, positive or negative, when God, from what i understand, only and always does everything He does or what He needs to do only for his children, a.k.a. us, right?

God didn't make that quasar burst, neither did the organization and process He put into it. God doesn't do things senselessly. He's perfect right?


So i'm afraid you're incorrect. Nature made that quasar burst. Not a huge ghost that lives in the sky and sits on a throne on top of clouds.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
I disagree. The theoretical "Big Bang" that created the universe was a natural event caused by Nature, or what we call "God".

Really? Because exact causes of Big Bang are yet to be determined. Call Hawkins ASAP and tell him you have discovered the cause of Big Bang! And its ''nature''.

http://www.qsmithwmu.com/did_the_big_bang_have_a_cause.htm
The universe started without a reason.
I prefer this theory myself:
http://www.tellmehowto.net/howto/explain_the_big_bang_850
So a very intriguing documentary about it on the Science channel.

Originally posted by LDHZenkai
http://www.qsmithwmu.com/did_the_big_bang_have_a_cause.htm
The universe started without a reason.

Assuming spacetime curves in just the right way

Originally posted by LDHZenkai
I prefer this theory myself:
http://www.tellmehowto.net/howto/explain_the_big_bang_850
So a very intriguing documentary about it on the Science channel.

I do love it when legitimate science becomes indistinguishable from the ravings of smelly people that live under park benches.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
I disagree. The theoretical "Big Bang" that created the universe was a natural event caused by Nature, or what we call "God". So you're basically saying that God is Nature and Nature is God, because if you're not, then you should revise the above statement.

Nature is apart of the Universe, so what Bitchiness is saying is that Nature is just a facet of the Universe itself, sort of like an Angel or perhaps another part of the trinity like the Son or the Spirit is a better analogy.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Assuming spacetime curves in just the right way



I do love it when legitimate science becomes indistinguishable from the ravings of smelly people that live under park benches.
lol yea it's pretty crazy stuff.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Really? Because exact causes of Big Bang are yet to be determined. Call Hawkins ASAP and tell him you have discovered the cause of Big Bang! And its ''nature''.

Um, I know that.. Why do you think I wrote the "Theoretical" Big Bang. As in theory? As in it's yet t.b.d.? How do we know there even was a "Big Bang"? 'S not what I'm saying. Whether it was a Big Bang or not, whether God did it or not, it was 100% a natural event that occurred at that moment. Which means Nature's responsible.

So you call Mr. Hawkins and tell him what I just wrote so that he can tell you that i'm correct. Post haste.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North

The thing is, is that the event was purely random, it affected mankind in no way, we didn't even see it happen. It's as if it never happened. But you think it happened because of the organization and process that God put into it? Why would God make something like that far away for no reason?

Why would God make this Quasar explode if it will have no impact on us, positive or negative, when God, from what i understand, only and always does everything He does or what He needs to do only for his children, a.k.a. us, right?

God didn't make that quasar burst, neither did the organization and process He put into it. God doesn't do things senselessly. He's perfect right?


So i'm afraid you're incorrect. Nature made that quasar burst. Not a huge ghost that lives in the sky and sits on a throne on top of clouds.

Yeah it did have an impact on us. If the Big Bang was correct, then it created this Earth for his children to reside on for a small portion of time. It benefitted us.

Originally posted by Tonks
Yeah it did have an impact on us. If the Big Bang was correct, then it created this Earth for his children to reside on for a small portion of time. It benefitted us.

The "Natural" phenomenon that was the "theoretical" "Big Bang" had an impact on us, yes, that that exploding Quasar, that i wrote about, in which you are currently referring to, that's currently billions and billions of light years away didn't impact us.

And the "Big Bang" didn't create Earth. Earth was born of a process of probably a collection of asteroids collisions that came together over multiple millions of years and "gravity" and heat and other asteroids and comets that carried steam water and more.

I wasn't just "Bang!" The the Earth shows up.

The Big Bang was the creation of the universe though. Which contains the billions of galaxies we have.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Earth was born of a process of probably a collection of asteroids collisions that came together over multiple millions of years and "gravity" and heat and other asteroids and comets that carried steam water and more. Um, that's not how it happened.

Shhhh!

I honestly don't think that science is ever going to know how the Earth was created.

Originally posted by Tonks
I honestly don't think that science is ever going to know how the Earth was created.

what hope does that give religion then?

Originally posted by Tonks
I honestly don't think that science is ever going to know how the Earth was created.

We've got a few ideas. But without a time machine, it's impossible to be certain. Then again without a time machine it's impossible to be sure what happened before the invention of the camera.

Originally posted by inimalist
what hope does that give religion then?

I hear they've got records written by a dude who was there.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I hear they've got records written by a dude who was there.

really, though, how trustworthy is eye-witness evidence?

All we need is corroborating evidence. To the Vishnu-mobile!

that got very surreal very quickly...

Originally posted by Tonks
I honestly don't think that science is ever going to know how the Earth was created. Unless some prophet can come up with another way that the Earth was created and somehow discredits the nebular hypothesis and accretion then I think its only a matter of time until the hypothesis is proven as accurate by scientists.

I dont think that it will be. For one I believe that human kind can attain Godhood, and that we will be able to create our own worlds. I believe that the creation of the Earth is known to Gods alone... And Science wont be able to explain it.

Originally posted by Tonks
I dont think that it will be. For one I believe that human kind can attain Godhood, and that we will be able to create our own worlds. I believe that the creation of the Earth is known to Gods alone... And Science wont be able to explain it. But if human kind can attain godhood, as you so believe, then who's to say that those scientists in the future won't be gods themselves and be able to explain the creation of Earth, ergo potentially proving the Nebular Hypothesis correct.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
To the Vishnu-mobile!

I believe that trumps a cosmic surfboard.

Originally posted by Tonks
I dont think that it will be. For one I believe that human kind can attain Godhood, and that we will be able to create our own worlds. I believe that the creation of the Earth is known to Gods alone... And Science wont be able to explain it.

im sorry, i was under the impression that science cud ALREADY explain the HOW in the creation of EARTH and also of the solar system/the galaxy/the greater megallanic cloud and with some probability the universe itself.

also, are you a scientologist? because from the things ur saying, u sound like u beleive in many of their basic teachings.

Originally posted by Darth Macabre
But if human kind can attain godhood, as you so believe, then who's to say that those scientists in the future won't be gods themselves and be able to explain the creation of Earth, ergo potentially proving the Nebular Hypothesis correct.

okay then they can rejoice in the life to come that they were right. I am saying in this life-time I dont think that they will know.



Nope I'm not.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
More like the universe is alive. And we are part of it.

Yes we are!

Originally posted by Tonks
Yes we are!

Then we cannot be separated from God.

lol what do ya mean?

Nature's nature. Not God or anything else. Pretty cut and dry.

Originally posted by SnakeEyes
Nature's nature. Not God or anything else. Pretty cut and dry.

What he is saying is that what we call nature is really God.