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Ulitmate Blade, Ultimate Captain America, Ultimate Wolverine



vs


Blade, Captain America and Wolverine


who wins no prep .

ultimate versions win. ultimate captain america and blade are stronger than their 616 counterparts I believe, and the wolverines are about equal.

Originally posted by Trackz
ultimate versions win. ultimate captain america and blade are stronger than their 616 counterparts I believe, and the wolverines are about equal.
what has ultimate blade done that makes him superior to the original.

I dont agree the ultimate capt better at all. he stronger however he not as skilled.

Ultimate Wolverine no were near as good as 616 Wolverine he get stomp on.

i think the Ult versions are stronger - in a lift more sort of way, but 616 have the mad pro skillz, especially with these 3 characters, well, Cap and Wolverine for sure, i don't know much on Ult Blade.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
what has ultimate blade done that makes him superior to the original.

I dont agree the ultimate capt better at all. he stronger however he not as skilled.

Ultimate Wolverine no were near as good as 616 Wolverine he get stomp on. he overpowered spiderman and almost killed him, thats like his only feat though, he jsut seemed a lot more intense.

he should be more skilled than current cap shouldn't he?

Originally posted by Trackz
he overpowered spiderman and almost killed him, thats like his only feat though, he jsut seemed a lot more intense.

he should be more skilled than current cap shouldn't he?
That doesent make him better man. 616 spidemrna would beta the ever living shit out of ultimate spiderman. You know he only a class 2. He also not as fast or as agile or as good at fighting as 616 spiderman.


I dont think so. Ultimate Capt pritty much U.S Agent

Originally posted by Battlehammer
That doesent make him better man. 616 spidemrna would beta the ever living shit out of ultimate spiderman. You know he only a class 2. He also not as fast or as agile or as good at fighting as 616 spiderman.


I dont think so. Ultimate Capt pritty much U.S Agent oh, I didnt know he was that weak, then 616 should win with blade and wolverine being better. But is this Buckey captain america we're talking about?

yea. To even it out.

does ult. logan have adamantium? and how is his hf?

616

Originally posted by Starscream M
does ult. logan have adamantium? and how is his hf?

Yes, he has... but it seems that not all of his bones are laced with metal (phalanges for example) and his joints are vulnerable. Very vulnerable. No molecular-lv bonds here, his skeleton doesn't work like an action figure.

616 Wolvie has much-much-much better healing feats.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yes, he has... but it seems that not all of his bones are laced with metal (phalanges for example) and his joints are vulnerable. Very vulnerable. No molecular-lv bonds here, his skeleton doesn't work like an action figure.

I'm aware of his joint vulnerabilities (as evidenced by his encounter with ult. hulk). but I don't think that weakness is exploitable in this scenario...no one really has the strength to rip him apart by the joints nor the propensity.

616 logan's hf has also been downgraded recently, so they may be closer.

I def think ult. cap beats bucky cap. and I think 616 logan beats ult. logan.

I think the decider will be the blade fight.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I'm aware of his joint vulnerabilities (as evidenced by his encounter with ult. hulk). but I don't think that weakness is exploitable in this scenario...no one really has the strength to rip him apart by the joints nor the propensity.

616 logan's hf has also been downgraded recently, so they may be closer.


Logan could easily exploit such a weakness not that he needs to.




Lol yea some much for down grade. He had his heart ripped out and healed from it amoung other things.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Logan could easily exploit such a weakness not that he needs to.
no he cannot.

Originally posted by Starscream M
616 logan's hf has also been downgraded recently, so they may be closer.

No, Guggenheim just wanted to give a perfect explanation for all the HF inconsistency which was undoubtedly about to come. I read some review about that.

Did you read Get Mystique? His healing feats from that story alone puts Ultimate to the shame. And it came right after Logan dies.

Originally posted by Starscream M
no he cannot.

He can cut his fingers off like he did to DP, for example...

Originally posted by Starscream M
no he cannot.
yes he can. for starters he easily storng enough to tear some on jionts off. he also could easily cut at the jionts not that he needs to.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
yes he can. for starters he easily storng enough to tear some on jionts off. he also could easily cut at the jionts not that he needs to. logan has never tore a meta's joints off nor cut someone's joints...that's not in character. so pointless to this discussion.

I think 616 logan will win, but not because ult. logan's joints are weaker.

Originally posted by Starscream M
logan has never tore a meta's joints off nor cut someone's joints...that's not in character. so pointless to this discussion.

I think 616 logan will win, but not because ult. logan's joints are weaker.
actaully he kicked a man head off before, and ulitmate wolverine does not to my knowledge have meta human durability. actaully logan has cut jionts off, limbos ect. just ask silver samuria

Logan just can't lose against his Ultimate counterpart. It's impossible. He's stronger, faster, more agile, more skilled, has better reflexes, heals much faster, his joints are not vulnerable, even 616 adamantium is much much more durable than Ultimate version.

Although I haven't read much of him, nobody seems to dispute that Ult. Blade is superior to 616 Blade, so I'll assume so also. But I'll also assume that it isn't easy.

Ult. Cap is much stronger than current Cap. He is also much, much, much more durable than current Cap. It's hard to say skill-wise, but I don't think it's enough to make a difference. I pick Ult. Cap over current Cap, but it's not easy.

616 Wolverine would take Ult. Wolverine. Though, there's no reason to think his joint seperable has anything to do with this. 616 Wolverine isn't going to know that his joints are separable and it seems highly unlikely that 616 Wolvie could get such a clean shot at any of his joints. But any victory is not easy for 616 Wolverine.

Team one 6/10. It's not easy.

I disagree. actaully the logical places to hit ulitmate wolverine would be the jionts , simply becuases there a weak spot in the body. I actaully dont see wolverine have any trouble beat ultimate wolverine at all. He superior in almost every way. He has way more experience and far more training. He also better trained and the better martial artist as well as fighter. Not to mention he more durable and has good deal bettter damage soak.

^ 616 Wolveirne would have no reason to think that he could cut him off at the joints. Especially if he sees Ult. Wolverine branish his adamantium claws. He'd probably think, "Crap, he's laced with it, just like me." Unless he lopped off a finger accidentally over the course of the fight would he logically discover such a vulnerability.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ 616 Wolveirne would have no reason to think that he could cut him off at the joints. Especially if he sees Ult. Wolverine branish his adamantium claws. He'd probably think, "Crap, he's laced with it, just like me." Unless he lopped off a finger accidentally over the course of the fight would he logically discover such a vulnerability.
which is actually pritty likely to happen lol or something of the sort. You also have ultimate wolverine think he could cut inbetween Logans jionts only to find out he can't.

anyone notices they look different, not much but a little. I also heard ultimate wolverine taller, but I could be wrong

Originally posted by Battlehammer
You also have ultimate wolverine think he could cut inbetween Logans jionts only to find out he can't.
no, ultimate logan won't try to cut 616 logan's joints as that's not a tactic he goes for.

Originally posted by Starscream M
no, ultimate logan won't try to cut 616 logan's joints as that's not a tactic he goes for.

he cuts off limbs ect. There no reason he would not aim for the jionts when he him self knows that the only weak point. That a logical targetting places.

also there no reason logan would assume ultmate wolverine jionts are covered in adamtium, when his clones were nor any of the other clones of his.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
also there no reason logan would assume ultmate wolverine jionts are covered in adamtium, when his clones were nor any of the other clones of his. when logan fights cap, dd, elektra, punisher, etc etc...has he ever gone for their joints?

Originally posted by Starscream M
when logan fights cap, dd, elektra, punisher, etc etc...has he ever gone for their joints?
No becauses he not trying to kill them. He aim for the jionts of sabertooth. also they dont have adamtium and his claws can cut right through them.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
No becauses he not trying to kill them. He aim for the jionts of sabertooth. also they dont have adamtium and his claws can cut right through them. you didn't state bloodlust...so in this fight, he's also not trying to kill.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
No becauses he not trying to kill them. He aim for the jionts of sabertooth. also they dont have adamtium and his claws can cut right through them. I don't recall him always aiming for joints against Sabretooth. I don't even recall him usually or even seldomly aiming for the joints against Sabretooth. They usually stabby-stab each other.

Originally posted by Starscream M
you didn't state bloodlust...so in this fight, he's also not trying to kill.
......wolverine will kill reguardless if he blood lusted or not

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I don't recall him always aiming for joints against Sabretooth. I don't even recall him usually or even seldomly aiming for the joints against Sabretooth. They usually stabby-stab each other.

Not always, but he has done so. In there first fight time line wises he did so with a sword cutting his arm off.

Originally posted by Starscream M
when logan fights cap, dd, elektra, punisher, etc etc...has he ever gone for their joints? Cap, DD, Elektra, Punisher do not possess joints that are the only weak spot on their body...

I'm not saying Capt is right, just saying that your comment/comparison is dumb.

I DO think that 616 wins though.

I dont think the fight would end with Logan cutting off ultimate Wolverine hand or anything, I think it end after a few good stabs

Originally posted by Starscream M
you didn't state bloodlust...so in this fight, he's also not trying to kill.
What wolverine is a killer, it's in his character to kill someone in afight unless he has a reason not to.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Not always, but he has done so. In there first fight time line wises he did so with a sword cutting his arm off. I'm pretty sure Wolverine cut his hand off at below the wrist. Do you have the scan of when it was lopped off?

Not on me, im pritty sure it was right at the wrist.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Cap, DD, Elektra, Punisher do not possess joints that are the only weak spot on their body...
ult. wolverine's joints are not his ONLY weak spot...his flesh, which accounts for majority of his being...as opposed to his joints which would be next to impossible targets, are a much bigger weak spot.

Originally posted by Starscream M
ult. wolverine's joints are not his ONLY weak spot...his flesh, which accounts for majority of his being...as opposed to his joints which would be next to impossible targets, are a much bigger weak spot.

true however aim to cut off your opponets weapons aka there hands is a far greater advantage

Originally posted by Starscream M
ult. wolverine's joints are not his ONLY weak spot...his flesh, which accounts for majority of his being...as opposed to his joints which would be next to impossible targets, are a much bigger weak spot. Let me reword:

"Cap, DD, Elektra, Punisher do not possess joints that are the only weak spot on their skeleton... "

Capt said that Ult. Logan would target 616's joints because he thinks that that's a similar weak spot as to what he possesses.

You said that because he didn't try this tactic on people like Elektra and Punisher, he wouldn't on 616 Wolverine.

Obviously the scenario is completely different, and your comparison is asinine. That's all I was pointing out.

Originally posted by Original Smurph

Capt said that Ult. Logan would target 616's joints because he thinks that that's a similar weak spot as to what he possesses.
Capt actually said 616 would target ult. logan's joints.

Originally posted by Original Smurph


Obviously the scenario is completely different, and your comparison is asinine. That's all I was pointing out. my point was that the fact that 616 would be fighting ult. logan, who happened to have adamantium bones, would not change 616's style at all. 616 has not broken capts, dd's, electra's etc bones, and none of them even have adamantium. So its not like ult. wolverine having adamantium makes a difference to 616.

Originally posted by Starscream M
my point was that the fact that 616 would be fighting ult. logan, who happened to have adamantium bones, would not change 616's style at all. 616 has not broken capts, dd's, electra's etc bones, and none of them even have adamantium. So its not like ult. wolverine having adamantium makes a difference to 616.

You mean cut off? yea that becuases he not trying to kill them. He ahve no reason to hold back killing ultmate wolverine, so he aim to cut limbs off.


oh and by the way he has cut opponets limbs of and broken there bodies

Originally posted by Starscream M
Capt actually said 616 would target ult. logan's joints. Oh yeah... mmm

Well, it's still a stupid comparison, but this time for a different reason.

My bad, Brucey. You're a different flavor of asinine.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
You mean cut off? yea that becuases he not trying to kill them.
bones can break without death occurring

Originally posted by Starscream M
bones can break without death occurring
true however Logan tends ot fight his his claws. So they loses there limbs if he did what your saying

Originally posted by Battlehammer
true however Logan tends ot fight his his claws. So they loses there limbs if he did what your saying so why would he be willing to kill ult. wolverine when he's not willing to kill capt, dd, etc?

ult. wolverine isn't a hand member ya know...

Originally posted by Original Smurph


My bad, Brucey. You're a different flavor of asinine. not sure why you're insulting me

Originally posted by Starscream M
so why would he be willing to kill ult. wolverine when he's not willing to kill capt, dd, etc?

ult. wolverine isn't a hand member ya know...

He could think the other team are skrulls. meh

Originally posted by Starscream M
so why would he be willing to kill ult. wolverine when he's not willing to kill capt, dd, etc?

ult. wolverine isn't a hand member ya know...
Becauses he knows he can kill ultimate wolverine with out killing him for good. or he simply doesent give a shit.

Originally posted by Starscream M
not sure why you're insulting me srug

It's my default.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
srug

It's my default. yeah, but only against me for some reason it seems

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I also heard ultimate wolverine taller, but I could be wrong

Yeah he's taller.

616 characters win 7-8/10.

On Cap vs U.Cap.

Cap has the superior speed feats and shield/skill feats. U.Cap strength feats are a bit better but not by too much to make the difference.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
On Cap vs U.Cap.

Cap has the superior speed feats and shield/skill feats. U.Cap strength feats are a bit better but not by too much to make the difference. Cap hasn't had as much time with the shield as Ultimate Cap has.

so how powerful is Ult. Blade...anyone know?

I think he's the decisive player in this fight

Originally posted by Starscream M
so how powerful is Ult. Blade...anyone know?

I think he's the decisive player in this fight he manhandled ultimate spiderman that's really his only feat.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
On Cap vs U.Cap.

Cap has the superior speed feats and shield/skill feats. U.Cap strength feats are a bit better but not by too much to make the difference. His strength feats are a lot better and his durability feats are insanely better.

Spidy lifted / pushed an SUV off himself effortlessly with one arm when he was in control of Ultimate Wolverine's body and Rogue regenerated an arm when she borrowed his powers.

Ultimate Wolverine is better when other people are Ultimate Wolverine...

^ Hmph. I wasn't aware of either of those instances. And I thought I read the switching bodies storyline...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
His strength feats are a lot better and his durability feats are insanely better.

His strength feats are not a lot better. His durability is more impressive then his strength.

His strength and durability feats are "extremely" better.

I've seen them. So color me unimpressed.

Are you serious?

He downed the Hulk temporarily with a few punches and kicks. Granted it was Ultimate Hulk, but still....

Look at what he did to Giant Man etc. He was going holding his own against that crazy Nazi alien shape shifting Super Soldier etc. who is seems to be incredibly strong.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Are you serious?

He downed the Hulk temporarily with a few punches and kicks. Granted it was Ultimate Hulk, but still....

Look at what he did to Giant Man etc. He was going holding his own against that crazy Nazi alien shape shifting Super Soldier etc. who is seems to be incredibly strong.


A hulk who was hurt from Ironman/calmed down by wasp/tank drop. Yes he put him down "briefly". Once the Hulk fought back U.Cap didn't stand a chance.

So?

Cap has downed The wrecking crew members as the Rhino. He even batted around King Thor with "circumstances" like U.Cap as well.

Giant Man you mean the one he beat with falling girders? Yeah thats impressive but 616 Cap's rival Taskmaster beat 3 Giant Men and much easier then U.Cap. 616 Cap has done well against Giant Man as well.

Cap has held his own against a Superhuman Scroll that was very durable and has held his own against many superhuman strong characters.

Don't get me wrong I think U.Cap is stronger but not by a lot.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
A hulk who was hurt from Ironman/calmed down by wasp/tank drop. Yes he put him down "briefly". Once the Hulk fought back U.Cap didn't stand a chance.

So?

Cap has downed The wrecking crew members as the Rhino. He even batted around King Thor with "circumstances" like U.Cap as well.

Giant Man you mean the one he beat with falling girders? Yeah thats impressive but 616 Cap's rival Taskmaster beat 3 Giant Men and much easier then U.Cap. 616 Cap has done well against Giant Man as well.

Cap has held his own against a Superhuman Scroll that was very durable and has held his own against many superhuman strong characters.

Don't get me wrong I think U.Cap is stronger but not by a lot. You're still going on about how Ult. Hulk was calmed down by Ult. Wasp? What makes you think a hornier Ult. Hulk is calmer? Certainly didn't show when he was screaming about how he wanted to do things to Betty the whole time he's raging through Manhattan. And calmed down by a tank dropping on him? Haha. Yeah... Ult. Hulk was so calm he was only strong enough to tear through the tank like it was a piece of paper. Yeah, real calm. Lulz.

Did you read Ultimates 3 when Ult. Cap was posing as Ult. Black Panther? Did you read when Ult. Cap blocked Zarda's axe swing without the benefit of a nifty force-absorbing shield? Do you continue to ignore all the strength feats he did have prior to all that? Never mind, the answer's quite obvious.

616

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You're still going on about how Ult. Hulk was calmed down by Ult. Wasp? What makes you think a hornier Ult. Hulk is calmer? Certainly didn't show when he was screaming about how he wanted to do things to Betty the whole time he's raging through Manhattan. And calmed down by a tank dropping on him? Haha. Yeah... Ult. Hulk was so calm he was only strong enough to tear through the tank like it was a piece of paper. Yeah, real calm. Lulz.

Did you read Ultimates 3 when Ult. Cap was posing as Ult. Black Panther? Did you read when Ult. Cap blocked Zarda's axe swing without the benefit of a nifty force-absorbing shield? Do you continue to ignore all the strength feats he did have prior to all that? Never mind, the answer's quite obvious.


Yeah its quite obvious U.Cap got weaker LOL. Since its not that impressive his feats in Ultimates v3. Blocked Zarda's sword....so what. Yes Wasp did calm him down. Wow he broke through a tank. That speaks class 100 + for sure. Definitely on 616 Hulk level.

Your still going on about he's a lot stronger yet you fail to prove so every time.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yeah its quite obvious U.Cap got weaker LOL. Since its not that impressive his feats in Ultimates v3. Blocked Zarda's sword....so what. Yes Wasp did calm him down. Wow he broke through a tank. That speaks class 100 + for sure. Definitely on 616 Hulk level.

Your still going on about he's a lot stronger yet you fail to prove so every time.

Getting the last shot on Cytorrak-enhanced Ult. Juggernaut and blocking the axe of Zarda means Ult. Cap got weaker?! Wow. All kidding aside, I really don't know what to say to that other than you came out to the exact opposite conclusion that you should have. You're not even dismissing those feats or ignoring them. You're looking at them and suggesting that Ult. Cap is weaker. Both of those foes are well past 100+ class. Get a grip.

And your snide remarks about Ult. Hulk and the tank are pure straw-man argumentation. Ult. Hulk does not need to be 616 Hulk for Ult. Cap's feats to place him at a much higher strength level than 616 Cap. You've essentially relegated yourself to concocting and relying on busted myths. Get a clue.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0


Getting the last shot on Cytorrak-enhanced Ult. Juggernaut and blocking the axe of Zarda means Ult. Cap got weaker?! Wow. All kidding aside, I really don't know what to say to that other than you came out to the exact opposite conclusion that you should have. You're not even dismissing those feats or ignoring them. You're looking at them and suggesting that Ult. Cap is weaker. Both of those foes are well past 100+ class. Get a grip.

And your snide remarks about Ult. Hulk and the tank are pure straw-man argumentation. Ult. Hulk does not need to be 616 Hulk for Ult. Cap's feats to place him at a much higher strength level than 616 Cap. You've essentially relegated yourself to concocting and relying on busted myths. Get a clue.


Last shot wasn't that impressive on Cytorrak since he wasn't shown anywhere to be out plus since the room was filled with gas hence why U.Cap was wearing a gas mask. Plus I don't even think he had the Cytorrak power at the time like when he fought U.Collosus. Clearly even if U.Cap did that. Which he didn't even 616 Cap has a feat of KO ing Hulk which is a high end feat. 616 Cap putting down Thunder Ball and Rhino is just as impressive or then some.

Point is if U.Cap is a lot stronger his stories have failed to show it. Stronger yes......a lot stronger no. I don't even think the Handbooks support you on this. You claim he's at 10 tons like USAgent yet no were in the hand books say he's 10 tons. I think even one of them pegged him at 1 or 2 tons. Which isn't a lot compared to Cap's 800 lbs.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Last shot wasn't that impressive on Cytorrak since he wasn't shown anywhere to be out plus since the room was filled with gas hence why U.Cap was wearing a gas mask. Plus I don't even think he had the Cytorrak power at the time like when he fought U.Collosus. Clearly even if U.Cap did that. Which he didn't even 616 Cap has a feat of KO ing Hulk which is a high end feat. 616 Cap putting down Thunder Ball and Rhino is just as impressive or then some.

Point is if U.Cap is a lot stronger his stories have failed to show it. Stronger yes......a lot stronger no. I don't even think the Handbooks support you on this. You claim he's at 10 tons like USAgent yet no were in the hand books say he's 10 tons. I think even one of them pegged him at 1 or 2 tons. Which isn't a lot compared to Cap's 800 lbs. ... I'm talking about when Ult. Cap confronted Ult. Juggernaut in Ultimates 3.

Still lulz at your excuses regarding the former Ult. juggernaut incident and ultimately besides the point. Also, you don't address Ult. Cap defending against Zarda's attack without the benefit of a force-absorbing shield. But why would I expect you to?

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Last shot wasn't that impressive on Cytorrak since he wasn't shown anywhere to be out plus since the room was filled with gas hence why U.Cap was wearing a gas mask. Plus I don't even think he had the Cytorrak power at the time like when he fought U.Collosus. Clearly even if U.Cap did that. Which he didn't even 616 Cap has a feat of KO ing Hulk which is a high end feat. 616 Cap putting down Thunder Ball and Rhino is just as impressive or then some.

Point is if U.Cap is a lot stronger his stories have failed to show it. Stronger yes......a lot stronger no. I don't even think the Handbooks support you on this. You claim he's at 10 tons like USAgent yet no were in the hand books say he's 10 tons. I think even one of them pegged him at 1 or 2 tons. Which isn't a lot compared to Cap's 800 lbs.

616 cap hasn't ko'd hulk....

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yes Wasp did calm him down.

She distracted him, not calmed down.

Originally posted by Trackz
616 cap hasn't ko'd hulk....


Actually yes he did. He saved Spiderman from Hulk and even made Hulk bleed. Spiderman helped with one punch but Cap did most of the work.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
She distracted him, not calmed down.

He looked calm via not angry or yelling.

Are you sure Spiderman only helped with one punch?

Originally posted by Mindset
Are you sure Spiderman only helped with one punch?

On panel? Yeah, one punch.

I'm pretty sure Spidey did more than that, though. It must've happened off-panel. Hence Cap thanking Peter and saying: "I couldn't have defeated him without you" or something like that.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
... I'm talking about when Ult. Cap confronted Ult. Juggernaut in Ultimates 3.

Still lulz at your excuses regarding the former Ult. juggernaut incident and ultimately besides the point. Also, you don't address Ult. Cap defending against Zarda's attack without the benefit of a force-absorbing shield. But why would I expect you to?


Prove it cite issue number of there confrontation. No offense but since our last debate your credibility isn't that great. Of course you would laugh about it since it doesn't remotely help your case gas and no sign of him anywhere sheeesh. And that feat of him stopping a sword? So what Cap has wrestled with Lady Octopus arms and even tackled down Thor,Giantman, and Ironman when he woke up after being suspended in ice. He even tackled down Ironman recently in Avengers/Invaders, but I guess you wouldn't know that.

No were has it ever been stated U.Cap can press 10 tons. You saying he's as strong as U.S.Agent is not even remotely accurate.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
On panel? Yeah, one punch.

I'm pretty sure Spidey did more than that, though. It must've happened off-panel. Hence Cap thanking Peter and saying: "I couldn't have defeated him without you" or something like that.


Caps just being generous. And Off panel equals not provable.

Anyways that's a "high end" feat for 616 Cap not the norm. Problem is U.Cap really doesn't have a feat like that yet GO claims his first encounter with Juggs proves it, yet its never shown on panel. Plus since there's gas in that very room it makes it ambiguous at best.

Yet there are the many times U.Cap has failed to KO guys on U.Juggs level even if he did in there first encounter(which he didn't.)

This second time sounds new to me but I'll give U.Cap a chance for him to have his first "High End" feat like 616 Cap.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
He looked calm via not angry or yelling. Barring how ridiculous that sounds... he got angry again and was yelling after he had a tank dropped on his head. Pretty obvious if you simply read the panels where he rips through the tank to get to Ult. Cap.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Prove it cite issue number of there confrontation. No offense but since our last debate your credibility isn't that great. Of course you would laugh about it since it doesn't remotely help your case gas and no sign of him anywhere sheeesh. And that feat of him stopping a sword? So what Cap has wrestled with Lady Octopus arms and even tackled down Thor,Giantman, and Ironman when he woke up after being suspended in ice. He even tackled down Ironman recently in Avengers/Invaders, but I guess you wouldn't know that.

No were has it ever been stated U.Cap can press 10 tons. You saying he's as strong as U.S.Agent is not even remotely accurate. No sign of him anywhere? So you've been talking this whole time and you never even read Ultimates #3. facepalm

Lulz at you trying to downplay Ult. Cap blocking Zarda's axe-swing without a force-absorbing shield. Do you even know who Zarda is? The mess that Avengers/Invaders is has nothing to add to this. Especially when you cite to a fight where Cap pummels Ironman with his fists.

Please read the comics that have been published since our last debate before wasting space with your posts.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Barring how ridiculous that sounds... he got angry again and was yelling after he had a tank dropped on his head. Pretty obvious if you simply read the panels where he rips through the tank to get to Ult. Cap.

And thats my point he got angry again but since he was calm who knows how much the tank drop affected him. Attacks do hurt and affect Hulk making it a circumstantial for U.Cap downing him. Pretty obvious.






Yes no sign of him being downed by Cap with the room filled with gas. I've already debunked that one of your claimed feats. I was talking about that one.

Cite the issue number for this "other" one. Like I said can't trust your credibility. I notice you ignore 616 Cap feats. But applaud at U.Caps. uh huh.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Actually yes he did. He saved Spiderman from Hulk and even made Hulk bleed. Spiderman helped with one punch but Cap did most of the work. That's not current captain america.

Originally posted by Trackz
That's not current captain america.


True current is Bucky but usually U.Cap is compared to Steve.

Although Bucky as Cap vs U.Cap is also a good fight. That bio-arm is no joke. It tore through Ironmans armor IIRC.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
True current is Bucky but usually U.Cap is compared to Steve.

Although Bucky as Cap vs U.Cap is also a good fight. That bio-arm is no joke. It tore through Ironmans armor IIRC. usually yes, but unless otherwise stated, Captain America is Bucky (this has ben confirmed by the OP)

Originally posted by Trackz
usually yes, but unless otherwise stated, Captain America is Bucky (this has ben confirmed by the OP)


Well I concede to that. Current Bucky it is, my mistake. I give it to U.Cap but not easy. Current Buck is no joke.

I'd still like to see this so called high end feat of U.Cap of his second fight with U.Juggs though. GO if you don't have the scans if you could cite the issue number I would appreciate it.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
And thats my point he got angry again but since he was calm who knows how much the tank drop affected him. Attacks do hurt and affect Hulk making it a circumstantial for U.Cap downing him. Pretty obvious.No. It sounds quite stupid actually. The same type of stupid when you actually argued that Ult. Cap was never really hit by Ult. Abomination back in the other thread and trying to downplay his durability then.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yes no sign of him being downed by Cap with the room filled with gas. I've already debunked that one of your claimed feats.Ha. Lemme guess, the gas weakened Ult. Juggernaut greatly. The gas didn't even knock out Hard-Drive or Vanisher. Good job. And gas isn't going to magically help Ult. Cap lift Ult. Juggernaut off the ground and send him crashing through the wall horizontally. Is this magical gas? Is that was it is? It magically sucks the power and durability away from Ult. Juggernaut and levitates him too? facepalm
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Cite the issue number for this other one. Like I said can't trust your credibility. I notice you ignore 616 Cap feats. But applaud at U.Caps. uh huh. Ultimates 3 #5. Lulz at credibility when you have actually stated that 616 Cap has one-shotted Korvac and Hulk. That was pretty epic. Still dodging the amount of strength necessary to block Zarda's attack without a force-absorbing shield, I see. Keep it up.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No. It sounds quite stupid actually. The same type of stupid when you actually argued that Ult. Cap was never really hit by Ult. Abomination back in the other thread and trying to downplay his durability then.

No just said it wasn't a full impact hit as his head or face are not under his massive fists and his legs are dangling out and he's moving back. Still impressive as I see you distort my words. Nice try though. It would have been real impressive if he was lying flat on his back and then the hammer fists came straight down on him. Other wise 616 Cap has feats that match that one.




Crashing through the wall doesn't mean he was shown out or KO'ed. Gas enough for U.Cap to wear. And was this a magical hit that it magically shows Jugg magically off panel in your magical world were we don't see Juggs out?








I retracted my Korvac statement still its impressive what he did since he hurt Korvac. You on the other hand don't and stick to Juggs was out in that encounter which you could never prove so. Good job.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
No just said it wasn't a full impact hit as his head or face being under the fists and his legs are dangling and he's moving back. Still impressive as I see you distort my words. Nice try though.Oh yea. I suppose Ult. Juggernaut pounding on Ult. Cap in Ultimates 3 wasn't full impact either. Oh wait. That's right, you didn't read it yet despite trying to argue about it for 2 pages. Originally posted by Daredevil1
Crashing through the wall doesn't mean he was shown out or KO'ed. Gas enough for U.Cap to wear. And and was this a magical hit that it magically shows Jugg magically off panel in your magical world were we don't see Juggs out? Yeah. The gas that didn't KO Hard-Drive, Toad or Vanisher KOed Ult. Juggernaut. That makes real sense. And Ult. Cap kicks Ult. Juggernaut ON-PANEL and sends him flying horizontally ON-PANEL. Do you have the memory capacity of a goldfish?Originally posted by Daredevil1
I retracted my Korvac statement still its impressive what he did since he hurt Korvac. You on the other hand don't and stick to Juggs was out in that encounter which you could never prove so. Good job. Retracting the epic phail that statement was, was the least you could do. Remember you saying that 616 Cap healed from a bullet to the head in a minute? Did you retract that yet? Good times. And I suppose this magical gas that only knocks out Ult. Juggs and/or random SHIELD agents subdued Ult. Juggernaut. Yeah, that makes a whole lot more sense.

And keep dodging Zarda. part of me wonders if you even know who she is without wiki.

LOL o my god. Just saw the fight with ultimate Cap vs Ultimate juggs.

You forgot to leave out that Logan rammed him with a dinosaur, a Triceratops and this dino's head was the size of Juggz to boot as Juggs was down and practically whipped. His armor was wrecked from it and U.Juggs was down and Logan is taunting him as he's not even able to do anything to Logan or anything about it. And then U.Cap asks Logan to let him have his turn.

LOL.

Seriously your crediblity is finished after that one.

At least in mine I stated Spiderman helped with a wimpy non confident punch. Again you fail to tell the circumstances. ha.

The more we disscuss U.Cap feats the less impressive they become.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
LOL o my god. Just saw the fight with ultimate Cap vs Ultimate juggs.

You forgot to leave out that Logan rammed him with a dinosaur, a Triceratops and this dino's head was the size of Juggz to boot as Juggs was down and practically whipped. His armor was wrecked from it and U.Juggs was down and Logan is taunting him as he's not even able to do anything to Logan or anything about it. And then U.Cap asks Logan to let him have his turn.

LOL.

Seriously your crediblity is finished after that one.

At least in mine I stated Spiderman helped with a wimpy non confident punch. Again you fail to tell the circumstances. ha.

The more we disscuss U.Cap feats the less impressive they become. As I said before, Ult. Cap got the last shot. Does the fact that he's even able to affect Cytorrak enhanced Ult. Juggernaut mean nothing to you?

Did you miss the part in the previous issue before Logan intercedes where Ult. Juggs is literally stomping on Ult. Cap? Do you still not understand what it means to block Zarda's axeblow?

why not just compare there feats. I remeber this debate before and onces the feats were compared with scans and comic numbers it was shown ultimate capt was not much stronger if at all if i recall correctly

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
As I said before, Ult. Cap got the last shot. Does the fact that he's even able to affect Cytorrak enhanced Ult. Juggernaut mean nothing to you?

Did you miss the part in the previous issue before Logan intercedes where Ult. Juggs is literally stomping on Ult. Cap? Do you still not understand what it means to block Zarda's axeblow?


Nope saw it. Yes its impressive that he can affect a badly hurt and down U.Juggs? But again the feat does not yell superiority to 616 Cap(steve) or Bucky with his super strong bio-arm.

Just saw the beat down he took from U.Juggs its impressive. But he is wearing a similar black suit could be vibraniam making it help.

Impressive but 616 Cap has also taken a legit beat downs from Ironman, Namoretc etc. So not a superior feat.

U.Juggs just seemed to job there as did 616 Hulk vs Cap. Doesn't surprise me since Loeb did "both" those books.

The Loeb 616 Hulk vs Cap is >>>>>> then the Loeb U.Juggs vs U.Cap.

My point remains the same........ a lot stronger doesn't seem to show.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
why not just compare there feats. I remeber this debate before and onces the feats were compared with scans and comic numbers it was shown ultimate capt was not much stronger if at all if i recall correctly


Exactly. I mean as you saw in this debate fans still site him downing Giant man as a reason why he's stronger.

But it doesn't even come close. GO claims he's as strong at USAGent yet he can't even cite him having 10 ton strength anywhere. I think a hand book the eariler one said like 2 or 5 tons can't remember. Maybe it was 4 tons but sheeeesh nothing like USAgent or 616 Spiderman like they try to make it sound.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Nope saw it. Yes its impressive that he can affect a badly hurt and down U.Juggs? But again the feat does not yell superiority to 616 Cap(steve) or Bucky with his super strong bio-arm.

Just saw the beat down he took from U.Juggs its impressive. But he is wearing a similar black suit could be vibraniam making it help.Well, we disagree.

Vibranium? Where did you get this? Ult. Cap has sparred with Ult. Black Panther before and beat him. If Ult. Black Panther had a vibranium suit, Ult. Cap wouldn't be able to hurt him at all. Your incredulity at him sustaining such a beating at Ult. Jugg's hands is dubious. Ult. Cap has taken a lot of beatings before and has only been knocked out once, when a Rocketman blitzed him from the sky after he had been shot full of tetrodotoxin.Originally posted by Daredevil1
Impressive but 616 Cap has also taken a legit beat downs from Ironman, Namoretc etc. So not a superior feat.

U.Juggs just seemed to job there as did 616 Hulk vs Cap. Doesn't surprise me since Loeb did "both" those books.

My point remains the same a lot stronger doesn't seem to show. No. 616 Cap has survived beatdowns. He has not sustained such beatdowns without nearly dying. So yes, they are superior feats. Don't even try to argue against Ult. Cap's superior durability. Please.

The only thing that remains is you still dodge Ult. Cap blocking Zarda's attack.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Well, we disagree.

Vibranium? Where did you get this? Ult. Cap has sparred with Ult. Black Panther before and beat him. If Ult. Black Panther had a vibranium suit, Ult. Cap wouldn't be able to hurt him at all. Your incredulity at him sustaining such a beating at Ult. Jugg's hands is dubious.

His durability does seem better but its bounces as well when he fights guys with much less or weaker strength then guys like Juggs. For example Nightowl, Russian Super Soildier, Black Panther, Tariq(however u spell his name). Now maybe if guys like them couldn't hurt U.Cap at all with strikes, you would have a point on "superior" durability. Maybe he just has a better ability of remaining conscious. The more he fights his street level characters the more they show him getting hurt from there singe strikes.




Even though his shield doesn't absorb impact it still offers protection otherwise he would use it. Sounds impressive but not superior.

Also a regular human who was using 616 Cap shield, died blocking Thunder ball's attack. Cap has withstood guys who are much stronger then him and did not come close to dying like Thor, Hulk and many more. Plus it just doesn't sound that impressive to me blocking a sword strike. 616 Cap still has the better higher end durability feats like his own shield crushing him with Wonderman unable to remove it. I see you dodge his feats as well.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
There are weakness on Vibranium on were to hit or the weave as seen from 616 BP so not necessarily.This is baseless speculation. You're inserting a very specific fact to explain away a durability feat that is consistent with all the ones that Ult. Cap has in spades simply because you don't want him to have, yet another one. Until you have proof that Ult. Panther's suit is vibranium, the theory is worthless.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
His durability does seem better but its bounces as well when he fights guys with much less or weaker strength then guys like Juggs. for example Nightowl, Russian Super Soildier, Black Panther, Tariq(however u spell his name). Now maybe if guys like them couldn't hurt U.Cap at all with strikes, you would have a point on superior durability. Maybe he just has a better ability of remaining conscious. The more he fights his a list street groups the more they show he getting hurt from them.Seem better? Lulz. Neither Ult. Nightowl, nor the Russian Super Soldier, nor Black Panther, nor Tariq subjected Ult. Cap to any punishment that approaches the high-end punishment he's taken. So don't argue that Ult. Cap's durability flip-flops. Ult. Cap does not need to be immune from people like these in order to have a level of durability that allows him to take beatings from Ult. Hulk, Herr Kleiser, Ult. Abom or Ult. Juggs.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Even though his shield doesn't absorb impact it still offers protection otherwise he would use it. Sounds impressive but not superior.

Also a regular human who was using 616 Cap shield, died blocking Thunder ball's attack. Cap has withstood guys who are much stronger then him and did not come close to dying like Thor, Hulk and many more. Plus it just doesn't sound that impressive to me blocking a sword strike. 616 Cap still has the better higher end durability feats like his own shield crushing him with Wonderman unable to remove it. I see you dodge his feats as well. facepalm

Yup. You didn't read Ultimate Hulk Annual either. I knew it, despite arguing over it for 2 pages. You don't even know who Zarda is without wiki, do you?

It doesn't sound impressive to you because apparently you have no idea how strong Zarda is. Or that when you have no force-absorbing shield, in order to stand your ground after blocking the attack of a 100+ class Zarda would require strength well over 616 Cap's. Have you seen 616 Cap when he tries to block a strong foe's attack without a force-absorbing shield? http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/2015/capiii08p15and16zq7.jpg Try again.

And how can I dodge a feat of 616 Cap's that you haven't mentioned up until now? Am I psychic? Can I see the future? Post the scan of the instance you're speaking of so I can see what you're talking about before projecting your baseless inanity.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
A hulk who was hurt from Ironman/calmed down by wasp/tank drop. Yes he put him down "briefly". Once the Hulk fought back U.Cap didn't stand a chance.

Calmed down?

How was he calmed down?

He was far from calm. He was hornier than ever after Janet flashed him.

Iron Man hurt him by using thought scramblers and all that did was slow him down for a few seconds.

Dropping a tank on him far from calmed him down. It made him angrier than ever.

Ultimate Captain America survived a beating from Ultimate Hulk with only a fractured/broken arm and some bleeding to show it. The same Ultimate Hulk, whom right after beating on Ultimate Captain America, downed Thor in one hit.

So?

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Cap has downed The wrecking crew members as the Rhino. He even batted around King Thor with "circumstances" like U.Cap as well.

Context is important.

All he did was throw himself and his shield in front of a single blow and was sent flying. A shock absorbing Vibranium composed shield. It still was severely dented from that one attack.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Giant Man you mean the one he beat with falling girders? Yeah thats impressive but 616 Cap's rival Taskmaster beat 3 Giant Men and much easier then U.Cap. 616 Cap has done well against Giant Man as well.

Context.

Ultimate Captain America, literally manhandled Giant Man.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/UltCapvsGiantMan1.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/UltCapvsGiantMan2.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/UltCapvsGiantMan3.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/UltCapvsGiantMan4.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/UltCapvsGiantMan5.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/UltCapvsGiantMan6.jpg

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Cap has held his own against a Superhuman Scroll that was very durable and has held his own against many superhuman strong characters.

eer

What the **** is a "Superhuman Scroll"?

Now I "know" you made that up.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Don't get me wrong I think U.Cap is stronger but not by a lot.

Whatever you say....

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Caps just being generous. And Off panel equals not provable.

I doubt it.

Absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

Originally posted by Mindset
I doubt it.

Absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

Thats what Wally West tells himself when he looks at where his Penis should be!

Originally posted by Juk3n
Thats what Wally West tells himself when he looks at where his Penis should be!

What do you have against Wally West?

that was pritty bad ass

Originally posted by Battlehammer
that was pritty bad ass

What was?

oh the scans of ultimate capt

Oh lol. Ultimate Captain America is pretty badass.

I loved Ultimate Marvel. It was incredible. Well, at least until Jeph Loeb got his hands on it.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
oh the scans of ultimate capt

There's a missing scan.

http://img312.imageshack.us/img312/7444/ultimates09p105tp.th.jpg
credit goes to ~The Wickerman~

has he ever display strength life that again?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
There's a missing scan.

http://img312.imageshack.us/img312/7444/ultimates09p105tp.th.jpg
credit goes to ~The Wickerman~



My bad. I thought I was missing a page. I was like this isn't right, but I was like whatever, lol.

Wait a minute!

I just checked my post. I'm not missing any scans.

Wait a minute!

Yes I am. The second last page of the fight.

What the ****?

I was so confused for like 5 minutes.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Calmed down?

How was he calmed down?

He was far from calm. He was hornier than ever after Janet flashed him.

Iron Man hurt him by using thought scramblers and all that did was slow him down for a few seconds.

Dropping a tank on him far from calmed him down. It made him angrier than ever.

Ultimate Captain America survived a beating from Ultimate Hulk with only a fractured/broken arm and some bleeding to show it. The same Ultimate Hulk, whom right after beating on Ultimate Captain America, downed Thor in one hit.

So?



Context is important.

All he did was throw himself and his shield in front of a single blow and was sent flying. A shock absorbing Vibranium composed shield. It still was severely dented from that one attack.



Context.

Ultimate Captain America, literally manhandled Giant Man.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/UltCapvsGiantMan1.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/UltCapvsGiantMan2.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/UltCapvsGiantMan3.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/UltCapvsGiantMan4.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/UltCapvsGiantMan5.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/UltCapvsGiantMan6.jpg



eer

What the **** is a "Superhuman Scroll"?

Now I "know" you made that up.



Whatever you say....

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
This is baseless speculation. You're inserting a very specific fact to explain away a durability feat that is consistent with all the ones that Ult. Cap has in spades simply because you don't want him to have, yet another one. Until you have proof that Ult. Panther's suit is vibranium, the theory is worthless.

Kind of like you baseless assertion that U.Cap is a lot stronger huh. Just playing your card, I learned from the best. Anyways fine you have him taking hits from U.Juggs. U.Juggs recently died from a poison dart in U X men 99......LOL. So not so far fetched for gas to ko him in U.Caps first encounter with him. Again as you asserted that U.Cap KO'ed him through the wall, yet it was never shown nor proven. Your teaching me to well with this baseless assertion logic.





Actually thats the epitomy of fip flopping if he can take hits from U.Juggs, U.Hulk, and U.Abom without be even close to death as you say he is from guys who can't even bench close to 800 lbs like nightowl who shouldn't even affect him. Not my fault he's become inconsistent.







Well lets see this, what issue did this feat happen in. Title and number or is that the book U.Hulk annual were U.Cap does this? I've already debunked U.Cap KOing U.Juggs as a better feat then 616 Cap. Might as well do the same for this one since you hype up his feat instead of what they really are.






I mentioned it in a past post above sherlock. Now who has the memory of a gold fish. What were you not criticizing me for not knowing U.Caps feats in vol 3. Do I have to hold your hand like a kid and show the pages for you. Its Avengers v1 158.

Graviton crushes Cap with his own shield. Wonderman try's to get it off him but cant! And Wonderman is considered close in strength to Thor. How's that for a crazy high durability feat.

Also you might want to check out the feat were the Asgardian executioner put pressure on Cap thats stated to be 100 times earths gravity. In the old Avengers vol 1. When it comes to high end durability feats 616 Cap insanely high end feats and exceeds U.Cap.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Calmed down?

How was he calmed down?

He was far from calm. He was hornier than ever after Janet flashed him.


Hornier but not angrier. Look at his face expression and eyes yeah. He didn't look angry in the least.






Yeah he hurt him all right. U.Hulk was like puking his guts out vomiting. Then he did a last ditch strike out of a building.





Yes it did. Point is he was still hurt from Ironman and Tank drop. Besides U.Cap put him down briefly is all which is impressive. Nothing that exceeds 616 Cap. Shoot in U.Cap's next fight with U.Thor they were concerned for U.Cap and U.Cap had to use a flame thrower against U.Thor. U.Cap stood no chance against U.Hulk outside from the circumstances that occurred.








Sure he did.
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/8486/page018.th.jpg

Now there was circumstances like the U.Cap vs U.Hulk but you get the idea.







And? He outsmarted clumsy Pym and then had lots of construction girders fall on him. Good fight but again how the heck does that even prove he's a lot stronger then Captain America. LOL

Look.
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/884/018gm3.th.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/6404/019rp7.th.jpg


Context is important you say. Taskmaster manhandled 3 Giant Men and curb stomps all over U.Cap vs U.Hank Pym. Doesn't mean he's as strong as 616 Cap though.


Look besides the above of Cap affecting King Thor. Cap has even downed Thunder Ball as Thunder Ball even spouted blood and was seeing stars from Cap's punch. IIRC Cap even defeated the Wrecker. Context is important so as you say.







I was just making sure you understood that the Scroll that Cap KO'ed was at a superhuman level. Since it possible that not all Scrolls are super strong. Wrong use of terms.







Rolling eyes has always been good evidence for U.Cap being "a lot stronger" then 616 Cap. shrugs.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Kind of like you baseless assertion that U.Cap is a lot stronger huh. Just playing your card, I learned from the best. Anyways fine you have him taking hits from U.Juggs. U.Juggs recently died from a poison dart in U X men 99......LOL. So not so far fetched for gas to ko him in U.Caps first encounter with him. Again as you asserted that U.Cap KO'ed him through the wall, yet it was never shown nor proven. Your teaching me to well with this baseless assertion logic.There's a difference between being shot directly in the eye by Stryker's Sentinel-enhanced posse and being knocked out by a gas. A gas that didn't even knock out Hard-Drive, Rogue, Toad or Vanisher. So yes, it's VERY far-fetched. Unless you want to argue that this is magic gas that only affects Ult. Juggernaut. Your desperate need to reach beyond the plain presentation of what occurs continues to astound me.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Actually thats the epitomy of fip flopping if he can take hits from U.Juggs, U.Hulk, and U.Abom without be even close to death as you say he is from guys who can't even bench close to 800 lbs like nightowl who shouldn't even affect him. Not my fault he's become inconsistent.That is not inconsistent. Batman can affect Wonderwoman with nerve strikes. And all of those characters, save for Nightowl are much stronger than Batman is. And Ult. Captain America is nowhere near as durable as Wonderwoman is. So no. It is not flip-flopping. Being durable enough to sustain punishment from U. Juggs, U. Hulk and U. Abom without dying does not presuppose that you are completely immune to attacks by weaker foes. Think about it.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Well lets see this, what issue did this feat happen in. Title and number or is that the book U.Hulk annual were U.Cap does this? I've already debunked U.Cap KOing U.Juggs as a better feat then 616 Cap. Might as well do the same for this one since you hype up his feat instead of what they really are.I gave you the issue, it's Ultimate Hulk Annual. There's only one issue. You didn't debunk anything because he did in fact knock out U. Juggs with the last shot.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
I mentioned it in a past post above sherlock. Now who has the memory of a gold fish. What were you not criticizing me for not knowing U.Caps feats in vol 3. Do I have to hold your hand like a kid and show the pages for you. Its Avengers v1 158.You only mentioned it once this entire thread. In the very same post you accused me of dodging the feat.

This is rich. This is even funnier than the time you posted a scan where Cap healed from a bullet in 12 minutes and you swore up and down it was 1 minute. Your own scan! You're just too precious...

hysterical

I hope you guys will forgive the fact that I haven't read much of this thread so I apologise if there is repetition in my post.

Why is there a debate over Cap vs Ultimate Cap's strength? I would have thought it glaringly obvious that Ultimate Cap is far superior, physically to 616 Cap, especially in strength and endurance. Whilst Ultimate Cap is much more limited in the number of feats, due to being a far more recent character, pretty much every feat of strength and endurance he as performed has outperformed 616 Cap's abilities.

A brilliant example of this occurs within the first few pages of the first issue of Ultimates when it's stated by Bucky that Cap doesn't even wear a parachute before a jump. Granted we don't get to see this (instead we are treated to him crashing an entire plan through very strong walls) but surviving the (presumably nuclear) blast from the rocket and previously the heat from it's propulsion surely does more than back up Bucky's statement.

By comparison 616 Cap cannot endure a few bullets.

Originally posted by willRules
I hope you guys will forgive the fact that I haven't read much of this thread so I apologise if there is repetition in my post.

Why is there a debate over Cap vs Ultimate Cap's strength? I would have thought it glaringly obvious that Ultimate Cap is far superior, physically to 616 Cap, especially in strength and endurance. Whilst Ultimate Cap is much more limited in the number of feats, due to being a far more recent character, pretty much every feat of strength and endurance he as performed has outperformed 616 Cap's abilities.

A brilliant example of this occurs within the first few pages of the first issue of Ultimates when it's stated by Bucky that Cap doesn't even wear a parachute before a jump. Granted we don't get to see this (instead we are treated to him crashing an entire plan through very strong walls) but surviving the (presumably nuclear) blast from the rocket and previously the heat from it's propulsion surely does more than back up Bucky's statement.

By comparison 616 Cap cannot endure a few bullets. You're fine to participate. And you're absolutely right.

In addition to what you've listed:

Strength-wise, off the top of my head: U. Cap held up a huge tree from crushing soldiers, beat on U. Hulk briefly, kicked U. Juggs and sent him flying horizontally through a wall, grappled evenly with U. Spiderman, blocked Zarda's axe-swing without being moved, etc.

Durability-wise: U. Cap got pummeled by U. Hulk and U. Abom, got outright thrashed by U. Juggs, and fought through being poisoned by tetrodotoxin, etc.

It's plain. And it's clear.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You're fine to participate. And you're absolutely right.

In addition to what you've listed:

Strength-wise, off the top of my head: U. Cap held up a huge tree from crushing soldiers, beat on U. Hulk briefly, kicked U. Juggs and sent him flying horizontally through a wall, grappled evenly with U. Spiderman, blocked Zarda's axe-swing without being moved, etc.

Durability-wise: U. Cap got pummeled by U. Hulk and U. Abom, got outright thrashed by U. Juggs, and fought through being poisoned by tetrodotoxin, etc.

It's plain. And it's clear.

Not to mention with the tetrodotoxin feat he was sleep deprived, lacking his shield and was subsequently pummeled into gravestones by numerous soldiers and Iron-man inspired rocket men

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
There's a difference between being shot directly in the eye by Stryker's Sentinel-enhanced posse and being knocked out by a gas. A gas that didn't even knock out Hard-Drive, Rogue, Toad or Vanisher. So yes, it's VERY far-fetched. Unless you want to argue that this is magic gas that only affects Ult. Juggernaut. Your desperate need to reach beyond the plain presentation of what occurs continues to astound me.

Enhanced gas vs enhanced poison dart LOL. Anyways its no different then your presentation of U.Juggs being KO'ed there since he's not shown "anywhere" KO'ed for that matter. I guess in your magical off panel world imagination he's shown some where.





And yet there are the times Batman can't affect high end bricks like Superman and such. So yes it is inconsistent. Heck why didn't U.Cap ko Nightowl in one shot since you say he can KO U.Juggs. If you can't see a inconsistency then that's your ignorance.






I'll check out the issue hopefully your not hyping it up like you did both instances the U.Juggs fight. Debunk I destroyed your hyped up feat. Yeah it was cool he got the last shot, but you sure did left out U.Juggs state at the time. At least this time it did demonstrate a KO unlike the first time but with circumstances. A tip of the hat to you. I see you still didn't comment on 616 Cap durability feats that I posted above.....way to dodge again.






eh,.......616 Cap healing from a bullet to the head and pronounced dead by the Doc and healing in 12 minutes is still impressive after wards he went to take on the Navy Super Soilder. Who are you kidding your self. Thanks for thinking I'm precious. That is a good feat and thanks for bringing it up.

Originally posted by willRules


By comparison 616 Cap cannot endure a few bullets.


Way to leave out the fact that Cap had strength dampers on at the time.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Enhanced gas vs enhanced poison dart LOL. Anyways its no different then your presentation of U.Juggs being KO'ed there since he's not shown "anywhere" KO'ed for that matter. I guess in your magical off panel world imagination he's shown some where.You've never proven that this gas was enhanced. I've already proven the gas' knock-out ability is literally non-existent because it didn't even knock out Hard-Drive, Rogue, Toad or Vanisher.Originally posted by Daredevil1
And yet there are the times Batman can't affect high end bricks like Superman and such. So yes it is inconsistent. Heck why didn't U.Cap ko Nightowl in one shot since you say he can KO U.Juggs. If you can't see a inconsistency then that's your ignorance.Your comparison is ridiculous. U. Cap does not have Superman durability. Nowhere close. Why would U. Cap benefit from Superman-level virtual immunity to street-leveler attacks? Get a grip.Originally posted by Daredevil1
I'll check out the issue hopefully your not hyping it up like you did both instances the U.Juggs fight. Debunk I destroyed your hyped up feat. Yeah it was cool he got the last shot, but you sure did left out U.Juggs state at the time. At least this time it did demonstrate a KO unlike the first time but with circumstances. A tip of the hat to you. I see you still didn't comment on 616 Cap durability feats that I posted above.....way to dodge again.Go for it. I didn't hype anything up. I said U. Cap got the last shot in on a Cytorrak enhanced U. Juggernaut. Don't project intentions into what I say.

I also see you unwilling to admit how unbelievably foolish and obnoxiously wrong you were when you accused me of dodging a feat that was never presented to me in the first place. Keep it up, precious.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You're fine to participate. And you're absolutely right.

In addition to what you've listed:

Strength-wise, off the top of my head: U. Cap held up a huge tree from crushing soldiers, beat on U. Hulk briefly, kicked U. Juggs and sent him flying horizontally through a wall, grappled evenly with U. Spiderman, blocked Zarda's axe-swing without being moved, etc.

Durability-wise: U. Cap got pummeled by U. Hulk and U. Abom, got outright thrashed by U. Juggs, and fought through being poisoned by tetrodotoxin, etc.

It's plain. And it's clear.


For 616 Cap off the top of my head: Cap caught a huge flying torpedo, did a ICBM shield throw, a Helicopter shield throw, held up a lot of amount of debris, beat on the real 616 Hulk, batted around King Thor, brought down Thunder Ball and made him spout out blood, brought down Wrecker, POWNED a Namor Clone(clone defeated real Namor and Original Human torch) grappled with the arms of Lady Octopus to even superhuman 50's Cap.

Durability: Cap got pummeled by Ironman and Namor, survived a 100 mph crash on Ben Grim(Reed tried to stop him but couldn't), survived in a Nuclear furnace. Not to mention the other two durability feats from above.

Its plain and clear if U.Cap if he's stronger it isn't by "a lot". You haven't even proven he's as strong as USAgent as you claim he is. Don't see any handbook support he's 10 tons.

Originally posted by Mindset
I doubt it.

Absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.


Doesn't apply since evidence of absence as that evidence could be anything until shown.


You made the claim Spiderman helped off panel. Its up to you to prove it.

Cap's statement proved it.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Way to leave out the fact that Cap had strength dampers on at the time.

Well how about the issue before where he took on a platoon of Hydra soldiers and then confronted SHIELD Capekillers and claimed he was too tired to fight them. He wasn't shot, nor did he have any strength dampeners on then.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
For 616 Cap off the top of my head: Cap caught a huge flying torpedo, did a ICBM shield throw, a Helicopter shield throw, held up a lot of amount of debris, beat on the real 616 Hulk, batted around King Thor, brought down Thunder Ball and made him spout out blood, brought down Wrecker, POWNED a Namor Clone(clone defeated real Namor and Original Human torch) grappled with the arms of Lady Octopus to even superhuman 50's Cap.1) Don't recall the huge flying torpedo. 2) ICBM shield throw only needed him to throw his shield 100+ mph. 3) The shield has a sharp edge and has demonstrated sheering ability, again 100+ mph probably all that's needed. 4) He held up a lot of debris with a vibranium-matrix shield that absorbs force. 5) He beat on 616 Hulk off-panel with Spiderman's help. 6) He batted a near-dead, depowered King Thor in an alternate future, so non-canon. 7) He knocked Thunderball to the ground, who promptly got up and nearly killed him in the next few panels. 8) Don't recall which instance you're speaking of. 9) He pwned a Namor clone off-panel, it's ridiculous to assume he overpowered him with strength. 10) You're last part doesn't make sense, clarify the sentence structure.Originally posted by Daredevil1
Durability: Cap got pummeled by Ironman and Namor, survived a 100 mph crash on Ben Grim(Reed tried to stop him but couldn't), survived in a Nuclear furnace. Not to mention the other two durability feats from above.1) Cap was beaten to a bloody unconscious pulp by Ironman who didn't want to hurt him anymore. 2) Don't recall which specific instance you're speaking of. 3) Don't know what instance you're speaking of, Cap's gotten his ass handed to him by Namor before and Namor didn't want to hurt him. 4) Survived a nuclear furnance with his vibranium-matrix shield that defelected and spread the heat outward.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Its plain and clear if U.Cap if he's stronger it isn't by "a lot". You haven't even proven he's as strong as USAgent as you claim he is. Don't see any handbook support he's 10 tons. Lulz at using absence of evidence in a handbook as evidence of absence.

Originally posted by Mindset
Cap's statement proved it.


Your right that he helped with "1 strike" which is what was shown. Nothing on this off panel helping that you eluded to.

Cap said he couldn't have done it w/o Spiderman, unless Spiderman's 1 punch was so substantial that it hurt Hulk enough for Cap to beat Hulk, then it's a pretty sure beat he did some fighting off-panel.

Although, I'll go with him only needing one punch to help Cap take Hulk down, that's more impressive.

Or we could go with it PIS, that'll work too.

Originally posted by willRules
Well how about the issue before where he took on a platoon of Hydra soldiers and then confronted SHIELD Capekillers and claimed he was too tired to fight them. He wasn't shot, nor did he have any strength dampeners on then.


I could be remembering wrong but I don't recall him saying he was too tired to face them. I do remember them asserting to put his hands up and they know he's hurt. From fighting them and that huge explosion that he survived but still hurt him.

U.Cap was also unsure and was worried he could get killed in that room full of soldiers as well.

Originally posted by Mindset
Cap said he couldn't have done it w/o Spiderman, unless Spiderman's 1 punch was so substantial that it hurt Hulk enough for Cap to beat Hulk, then it's a pretty sure beat he did some fighting off-panel.

Although, I'll go with him only needing one punch to help Cap take Hulk down, that's more impressive.

Or we could go with it PIS, that'll work too.



PIS will work too for him KO'ing U.Juggs just as easily. shruggs.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
PIS will work too for him KO'ing U.Juggs just as easily. shruggs. Except it didn't happen off-panel. And Cap said Spiderman helped him. And we actually see the strikes that U. Cap used on U. Juggs. To steal a line from another poster: "Slight difference, slick."

This just shows your ignorance. How could Cap beat Hulk off panel since it was "shown" on panel of what he did.................LOL.

Do you even read 616 Cap books. Actually look at the comic. Spiderman only helped with 1 punch that didn't even really affect him that much. Cap shown strikes had Hulk bleeding and was batting him around.

This shows you don't know Cap feats. Some of your other one's are off as well. Plus again Iroman was blood lusted in the annual that he was beating down on Cap. Not Civil war.

Ha. You don't even know the feats. It was in a Cap annual look it up.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
PIS will work too for him KO'ing U.Juggs just as easily. shruggs. If I was actually making an argument for Ult. Cap to win I might care, but I'm not. srug

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Except it didn't happen off-panel. And Cap said Spiderman helped him. And we actually see the strikes that U. Cap used on U. Juggs. To steal a line from another poster: "Slight difference, slick."


Cap's didn't happen off panel. That poster said he believe Spiderman helped "off panel". Not that Cap beat him off panel. Read or actually look at the book ace.

And to show U.Cap is not "a lot" stronger or even remotely on USAgents strenght level as OneDumbGO once claimed.

Here's U.Cap work out. Non USagent level

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2907/26406202kt8.th.jpg


Compared to USAGents work out.

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1443/capamericav135822roughe.th.jpg



Yeah when U.Cap starts doing that then it can be claim he's a lot stronger then Cap. But Cap himself could do U.Caps workout from above.

Watch GO try to twist and turn that scan from above. It so hilarious better then comedy central on TV.....LOL

^ Prove that an old Brooklyn gym has weights that would measure in the 10 tons level. Then prove that U. Cap was working out to his max capacity. Is this argument going to flow like your magic enhanced gas argument that doesn't affect hard-Drive, Rogue, Toad or Vanisher but knocks out Juggernaut?
Originally posted by Daredevil1
This just shows your ignorance. How could Cap beat Hulk off panel since it was "shown" on panel of what he did.................LOL.

Do you even read 616 Cap books. Actually look at the comic. Spiderman only helped with 1 punch that didn't even really affect him that much. Cap shown strikes had Hulk bleeding and was batting him around.

This shows you don't know Cap feats. Some of your other one's are off as well. Plus again Iroman was blood lusted in the annual that he was beating down on Cap. Not Civil war.

Ha. You don't even know the feats. It was in a Cap annual look it up. When you see only two snippets of a fight, that is an off-panel fight. Lulz, indeed.

I have been collecting comics for over a decade. In fact, the number of Cap comics I have exceed that of any other single title in my entire collection.

This just shows how obnoxious and wrong you are:Originally posted by Daredevil1
I mentioned it in a past post above sherlock. Now who has the memory of a gold fish. What were you not criticizing me for not knowing U.Caps feats in vol 3. Do I have to hold your hand like a kid and show the pages for you. Its Avengers v1 158.Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You only mentioned it once this entire thread. In the very same post you accused me of dodging the feat. Classic. Just classic.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Watch GO try to twist and turn that scan from above. It so hilarious better then comedy central on TV.....LOL What about Comedy Central on the internet?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Prove that an old Brooklyn gym has weights that would measure in the 10 tons level. Then prove that U. Cap was working out to his max capacity.



I knew it. Gold mine like landing on the moon. Go proving he's a lot stronger then Cap and proving he's at 10 ton class is gold.

I told ya'll that it was hilarious.

Originally posted by Mindset
What about Comedy Central on the internet?


uh ok I guess.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
I knew it. Gold mine like landing on the moon. Go proving he's a lot stronger then Cap and proving he's at 10 ton class is gold.

I told ya'll that it was hilarious. In your delusional mind it's hilarious. Considering I've been debating with someone who's stated that Cap one-shots Korvac, who accuses me of dodging a feat that he never bothers to mention, or reads 12 minutes to be 1 minute, I'm sure a lot of people are laughing. And let me assure you, you are the butt of the joke.

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/2691/untitled5154zw.th.jpg

Your flood of posts does not diminish the inanity of many of your comments. Your prodigious use of ad hominem, projection and double-standards does nothing to inflate your arguments with substance. Your constant dodging and meandering around U. Cap's feats is nothing short of ignorance. And the fact that everybody is arguing with you should give you a clue. But considering how much you failed to do much of anything except make a fool of yourself, that would be hoping for too much.

To be fair, 616 Cap has lifted and tossed away a tree, too. Can't find the scan right now, but it should be somewhere in his respect thread.

I'm thinking about that one with narrator's comment: (...) But what a man can do, Captain America will do!

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He didn't look angry in the least?

Dude, he was a ranging brute before. Now he was a raging brute with a hard on. He looked extremely horny for one panel, and in the next, he is a pissed off brute as Ultimate Captain America drops a tank.

The Hulk gets stronger, the angrier he gets, and he looked extremely pissed when off, when Ultimate Captain America dropped a tank on him from god knows what height.

Any amount that Janet calmed him down, went out the window the moment, Captain America attacked him.

Since we are going by facial expressions alone, did you see how pissed off he looked when he was fighting Ultimate Captain America?


Of course he looked pissed but those prior circumstances helped softened him up for U.Cap. U.Ironman making him puke his guts out and knocking him out of a building. Wasp calming him down then a tank drop.
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/633/ult05p10ig5.th.jpg

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/7617/ult05p11qj6.th.jpg

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/6949/ult05p12ll6.th.jpg

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2784/ult05p13xo1.th.jpg


Then U.Cap downed him briefly.

Once U.Hulk really fought back U.Cap stood no chance whatsoever and treated him like a gnat besides U.Thor saving him the other time.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4951/ult05p21zf3.th.jpg






Yet he didn't break out of the tank instantly. Notice they even noticed small movement taking place after the tank crash. Accumulation adds up. Yes U.Cap's durability is impressive doesn't change the fact of the circumstances prior to his fight with U.Cap.





Sure its clear as crystal. He brought down the U.Hulk briefly via prior circumstances only to show he was literally "no" match for U.Hulk at all as U.Thor had to save him. Impressive durability but lets not pretend on whats not going on. Bringing down U.Hulk breifly with prior circumstances is impressive. Don't get me wrong but this is a more impressive.

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/662/17340095.th.jpg

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/8343/61492907.th.jpg





Not demeaning. Its just what it is. They were concerned for U.Cap as they should be since he really doesn't stand a chance against those bricks other then certain circumstances aiding him.







Its not even debatable that it was on his own. There was no own. Yeah I'm sure King Thor was selling those strikes and let himself get batted around like a punching bag to even when he gets dropped to even put his hand on his head to look even more miserable. Maybe he Thor should have gone the Wonderman route and go Hollywood if thats the case.

Manhandle Pym into a ditch. Do you even look at the scans. Pym is over a ledge. Notice Ult Cap doesn't leap out for a tackle at his stomach but jumps out at his face for leverage and vulnerability and brings him down. Now thats skill not manhandle. You want manhandle watch U.Hulk vs U.Pym to get an idea.






Taskmaster did it with his shield and skillful strikes. Ult Cap did it through tactically outsmarting clumsy Pym. Now who's fooling himself. HA! Ult Cap even had to use girders. Anyone can see thats no manhandle but Ult Cap using his tactical genius and environment for his aid. Taskmaster having the disadvantage against Deadpool is supposed to be bad. So what U.Cap was barely beating Nightowl a regular human and barely at that. Taskmaster has even had Spiderman on the ropes before.






He KO'ed the Wrecker by via skillfull shield strikes. But this is the Wrecker after all.
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/3885/wreckerbl2.jpg
http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/856/wrecker2xs9.jpg





True but Thunder Ball KO'ing Cap doesn't change the fact that Cap brought him down briefly made him bleed and see stars from just 1 punch to the face. All this and no fancy Ironman fighting him or a tank drop at that. Context is important shoot a page or two before Cap fought Thunderball. Hawkeye even warns Cap that Thunderball has taken hits from Thor himself. So the context is there.






Not sure what Quill your reffering to. The Scroll I'm talking about got owned by Cap. And this Scroll in particular could even take a punch from the ever loving blue eye'd Thing and get back up.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
To be fair, 616 Cap has lifted and tossed away a tree, too. Can't find the scan right now, but it should be somewhere in his respect thread.

I'm thinking about that one with narrator's comment: (...) But what a man can do, Captain America will do!

616 Cap's tree feat wasn't that impressive IMO. But here's Cap breaking out of cryogenic freeze from the inside. You might like this one better.

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/4712/captainamerica444p22uk1.jpg
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1307/captainamerica44503zw3.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/3151/captainamerica4450405al5.jpg

He also has some insane ones like his ICBM shield throw. CBR deems it SvsFL because he would literally have to have Spiderman level strength to throw his shield at a in flight ICBM missile.

Gotta go with 616 versions.

Ult Cap seems stronger that his regular counterpart but 616 has far more experience.
There's been like 1 appearance from Blade so it's hard to judge how powerful he is. And due to his limited appearances we have to go with 616 Blade as he has the feats and experience.
616 Wolverine is far better than Ult Wolverine, no question.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
616 Cap's tree feat wasn't that impressive IMO. But here's Cap breaking out of cryogenic freeze from the inside. You might like this one better.

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/4712/captainamerica444p22uk1.jpg
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1307/captainamerica44503zw3.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/3151/captainamerica4450405al5.jpg

He also has some insane ones like his ICBM shield throw. CBR deems it SvsFL because he would literally have to have Spiderman level strength to throw his shield at a in flight ICBM missile. For your information, Sharon had the Red Skull technicians initiate the unfreezing process before Cap begins to break out.

The missile was not a traditional ICBM. Most ICBMS are incredibly large. This was a much smaller rocket and immediately after lift-off may only have accelerated to 100 mph. Cap, with his relative super-strength, throwing his aerodynamic shield at 200 mph or even just 150 mph means that the shield hit Falcon's restraints at 100 mph or 50 mph. With it's slicing edge, those speeds are more than sufficient. And considering that baseball pitchers with well-below peak-human strength can throw baseballs at over 100 mph, it's not a stretch to think that someone with over peak-human strength can throw an aerodynamic shield at twice that speed or even 1.5X that speed. It's not PIS.