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Griffin (Jumper)


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VERSUS


Nightcrawler


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Fight takes place....well, everywhere haermm ...Griffin can jump to his lair at any time he wishes for weapons.....


TO THE DEATH

They both have TP, but Nightcrawler has his mutant enhanced speed and agility, plus a prehensile tail. That scene in the White House pretty much trumps anything the UK kid did.

NC is taking this.

Indeed, but you gotta remember Griffin has all those nifty weapons in his lair, AND he can jump buses and cars and shit. Plus, isn't NC's jumping range limited in X2?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Indeed, but you gotta remember Griffin has all those nifty weapons in his lair, AND he can jump buses and cars and shit. Plus, isn't NC's jumping range limited in X2? As the clip shows, Nightcrawler took out a small army of White House security personnel to get to the President, keeping himself safe from the guns of over a dozen people in an enclosed room at once. So I don't Griffin's guns are going to do much good.

Throw in Nightcrawler's enhanced strength, and I think he's coming out on top.

Nightcrawler

- Better stats
- more skilled

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Indeed, but you gotta remember Griffin has all those nifty weapons in his lair, AND he can jump buses and cars and shit. Plus, isn't NC's jumping range limited in X2?

Griffon is going to have a hard enough time shooting a guy who can not only TP away, but has enhanced speed and agility, let alone hitting him with a bus.

Yeah, I don't think NC can TP to different countries, but unless Griffon is trying to run away, it won't matter in this fight.

Yes, NC has the edge in speed and agility and h2h, this is why I gave Griffin his lair and all his weapons. He had a damn flamethrower haermm

Plus Griffin isn't exactly a pussy. There is a scene in Jumper where he is fighting Sam Jackson. They are a good distance apart. Griffin jumps multiple times, like FOOM FOOM FOOM FOOM FOOM and knocks Sam through a stone wall. Here, lookie, at 3:00

MDuvyX4HHYo&feature=related

And you gotta stand in awe that Griffin can grab a bus in Tokyo and jump it to Sweden if he wishes. Plus he can just drop NC with the sharks

Originally posted by Robtard
Griffon is going to have a hard enough time shooting a guy who can not only TP away, but has enhanced speed and agility, let alone hitting him with a bus.

Yeah, I don't think NC can TP to different countries, but unless Griffon is trying to run away, it won't matter in this fight. Griffin's abilities to TP whereever he wants in the world (As long as he has seen it) More than makes up for NC's edge in agility and speed.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Griffin's abilities to TP whereever he wants in the world (As long as he has seen it) More than makes up for NC's edge in agility and speed.

His weapons don't counter NC's speed, agility and skill, that White House scene proves that.

Not sure what benefit in winning Griffon's longer range jump gives him in this fight, as he can only jump to places he's been before, if he can't directly see the area. So he can bring back a bus or kitchen sink from England or Hawaii, that ins't going to win the fight

He can't win by running away.

Originally posted by Robtard
His weapons don't counter NC's speed, agility and skill, that White House scene proves that.

Not sure what benefit in winning Griffon's longer range jump gives him in this fight, as he can only jump to places he's been before, if he can't directly see the area. So he can bring back a bus or kitchen sink from England or Hawaii, that ins't going to win the fight He can jump behind NC, grab him, and drop him with the sharks.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
He can jump behind NC, grab him, and drop him with the sharks.

NC can jump behind Griffin, grab him, and teleport him head first inside a wall.

Originally posted by Placidity
NC can jump behind Griffin, grab him, and teleport him head first inside a wall. He very well could. But since Griffin has the edge in jumping ability, unlikely.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
He can jump behind NC, grab him, and drop him with the sharks.

And NC can TP out.

You're avoiding that they both have this ability to TP the other into places, so it'd come to to other aspects, which NC has in spades over the kid.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
He very well could. But since Griffin has the edge in jumping ability, unlikely.

In overall range yes, which won't matter much in this fight.

NC's fight in the White House shows his greater speed in quick/multi teleporting. Which is what I see happening, NC tping in close and landing blows, over and over until the kid is ko'd.

Originally posted by Robtard
And NC can TP out.

You're avoiding that they both have this ability to TP the other into places, so it'd come to to other aspects, which NC has in spades over the kid. You've never seen Jumper, have you?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
He very well could. But since Griffin has the edge in jumping ability, unlikely. How is it unlikely, because Griffin can teleport over a farther distance than NC?

Farther and faster. And he can Jump NC to places where NC would be killed.

Shark pit off the coast of Cuba FTW.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You've never seen Jumper, have you? Don't be an ass with that, as I obviously have.

The guys Griffon drops as shark feed were already dead, that is irrelevant though, if he jumps NC into the water, NC can teleport out, it's not like he's going to be able to jump him directly in a sharks mouth.

Griffon's ability to jump buses and cars is also not going to help him, NC avoids gun fire from multiple opponents, Secret Service agents to be exact, so avoiding a bus isn't going to be a problem.

When it comes to short range jumping or teleporting in regards to performing an attack, NC's White House scene was far more impressive than the Coliseum, cave lair or any other scene from Jumper.

Put Griffon in the White House scene; he's going to get shot in the Oval Office part. /the end

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Farther and faster. And he can Jump NC to places where NC would be killed.

Shark pit off the coast of Cuba FTW. Farther, yes, but where has he shown to be faster?

Griffin has seen many shark pits in Cuba, huh?

Originally posted by Robtard
Don't be an ass with that, as I obviously have.

The guys Griffon drops as shark feed were already dead, that is irrelevant though, if he jumps NC into the water, NC can teleport out, it's not like he's going to be able to jump him directly in a sharks mouth.

Griffon's ability to jump buses and cars is also not going to help him, NC avoids gun fire from multiple opponents, Secret Service agents to be exact, so avoiding a bus isn't going to be a problem.

When it comes to short range jumping or teleporting in regards to performing an attack, NC's White House scene was far more impressive than the Coliseum, cave lair or any other scene from Jumper.

Put Griffon in the White House scene; he's going to get shot in the Oval Office part. /the end And where is NC gonna teleport to? If he is in the damn ocean, far under the water, how is he gonna escape? NC has to see where he is jumping too.

And you can honestly say that NC jumps faster that Griffin?

How is Griffin faster?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And where is NC gonna teleport to? If he is in the damn ocean, far under the water, how is he gonna escape? NC has to see where he is jumping too.

And you can honestly say that NC jumps faster that Griffin?

He can teleport up and out. Sharks are not deep water hunters. He doesn't have to see, just not seeing he runs the risk of teleporting into something solid and dying.

Yes, that White House seen he did several teleports/attacks in just as many seconds, he definitely has the speed, agility and fighting skill advantage here. That WH scene was far more impressive than anything Griffon did.

Originally posted by Robtard
He can teleport up and out. Sharks are not deep water hunters. He doesn't have to see, just not seeing he runs the risk of teleporting into something solid and dying.

Yes, that White House seen he did several teleports/attacks in just as many seconds, he definitely has the speed, agility and fighting skill advantage here. That WH scene was far more impressive than anything Griffon did. OK answer this. How far did NC jump each time? Just guesstimate it.

His farthest jump was probably when he caught Rogue when she fell out of the X-jet, that should be sufficient.

And about how far was that?

400 miles

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
OK answer this. How far did NC jump each time? Just guesstimate it.

As Mindset said above, Rogue was sucked out of the jet, and by the time he jumped out to get her and jumped back in, that jet was probably several miles away, considering it was traveling at a high rate of speed.

That is going to be more than enough to TP close enough to Griffin multiple times and kick is ass. If Griffin wants to attack him, he's going to stay close too.

Edit: I'd have to watch the movie again, but I think NC can TP to anywhere he's been before/knows it's safe. Regardless, this fight is going to be them TPing close to each other and attacking, NC with his fist, feet and tail, Griffin with whatever he can get his hands on. NC would win with his superior skills.

Originally posted by Robtard


Edit: I'd have to watch the movie again, but I think NC can TP to anywhere he's been before/knows it's safe. Pretty sure he cant. Lemmee know when you find out.

Originally posted by Mindset
400 miles 400? Doubtful. Few miles maybe.

Well there you go, a few miles.

You already knew the answer

NC can also keep teleporting in the air to travel across something like the sea.

Totally irrelevant, but just wanted to point that out.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Pretty sure he cant. Lemmee know when you find out.

Not sure I'll watch that movie again/soon. But where was he hiding when Xavier found him with Cerebro? As it wasn't long after the attack on the President that that happened.

And Griffin cant?

Heres the deal, as they face off, they dont know where the other is jumping to. If Griffin jumps to his lair and comes back with a flamethrower, NC has no idea where Griffin will appear. Likewise, Griffin has no idea where NC will be upon his return. Seeing as Griffin is likely not gonna go h2h with NC, all he would have to do is keep jumping around until he has a clear shot. Hell, he could jump somewhere, grab a rifle, jump back and unload on NC. NC dodged pistols shots, not a full auto machine gun or a flame thrower.

Only way NC wins is if he is lucky enough to catch Griffin up close, and that aint gonna happen.

And again, Griffin knocked Sam Jackson through a frigging stone wall.

Griffin jumps faster, this is painfully obvious, youtube it. And he also can jump a FAR greater distance.

Originally posted by Robtard
Not sure I'll watch that movie again/soon. But where was he hiding when Xavier found him with Cerebro? As it wasn't long after the attack on the President that that happened. Not a good point, hours could have passed.

Another thing: NC had issues with jumping through a wall to save X, didnt he? Well, even Rice Bowl could jump through a wall.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Not a good point, hours could have passed.

Another thing: NC had issues with jumping through a wall to save X, didnt he? Well, even Rice Bowl could jump through a wall.

Why does he need to jump through a wall?

The only problem is he doesn't know whats on the other side. I'm sure Griffin wouldn't end well either if he teleported inside a wall .

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And Griffin cant?

Heres the deal, as they face off, they dont know where the other is jumping to. If Griffin jumps to his lair and comes back with a flamethrower, NC has no idea where Griffin will appear. Likewise, Griffin has no idea where NC will be upon his return. Seeing as Griffin is likely not gonna go h2h with NC, all he would have to do is keep jumping around until he has a clear shot. Hell, he could jump somewhere, grab a rifle, jump back and unload on NC. NC dodged pistols shots, not a full auto machine gun or a flame thrower.

Only way NC wins is if he is lucky enough to catch Griffin up close, and that aint gonna happen.

And again, Griffin knocked Sam Jackson through a frigging stone wall.

Griffin jumps faster, this is painfully obvious, youtube it. And he also can jump a FAR greater distance.

He can also tp/jump, that isn't the issue.

Flamethrower isn't going to tag NC if multiple guns couldn't, if anything, NC would TP out of the flames path and use that as an opportunity to attack Griffin while he's busy flaming away.

Why do you assume Griffin wouldn't attack up close with a bat, knife or other handheld weapon, as he did it many a time in the film?

Sam Jackson has nothing on NC. NC would have just tp'd out of Griffin's grasp before the wall slamming.

No, that White House scene is faster and more skillful than anything in Jumper. Watch it.

Originally posted by Placidity
Why does he need to jump through a wall?

The only problem is he doesn't know whats on the other side. I'm sure Griffin wouldn't end well either if he teleported inside a wall . I quote NC... "I have to see where I am going"

Just saying that is a weakness he has that Griffin doesnt.

Originally posted by Robtard
He can also tp/jump, that isn't the issue.

Flamethrower isn't going to tag NC if multiple guns couldn't, if anything, NC would TP out of the flames path and use that as an opportunity to attack Griffin while he's busy flaming away.

Why do you assume Griffin wouldn't attack up close with a bat, knife or other handheld weapon, as he did it many a time in the film?

Sam Jackson has nothing on NC. NC would have just tp'd out of Griffin's grasp before the wall slamming.

No, that White House scene is faster and more skillful than anything in Jumper. Watch it.

And Griffin can TP around like a madman taking the flamethrower with him.

Griffin isn't gonna attack NC with a bat or a knife, he isn't stupid, he'd realize he is outclassed h2h and use other tactics.

The white house scene was more skillful h2h, yes. But this fight wouldnt be h2h, unless NC gets extremely lucky and gets in close on Griffin. And if he does, or if Griffin decides to go h2h, he will see in a few seconds his mistake, jump away, and return with a bus or some shit to throw at NC. And if NC dodges, big deal, Griffin jumps away, FAR away, farther than NC can dream of, and returns with something else. Eventually NC would get hit, HARD.

Griffin can jump farther and faster, I keep saying this, the proof is in the movies. And the scene where Griffin tosses Sam through a stone wall shows he is as strong if not stronger than NC.

Any argument saying NC is a faster jumper than Rice Bowl and Griffin is futile, the jumpers in Jumper are on another level.

Originally posted by Mindset
How is Griffin faster?

And how is a single guy shooting an automatic or a flamethrower going to hit someone who can dodge shots from over a dozen trained security personnel at once in an enclosed room, at least three of whom were carrying SMGs?

knowing griffin, he'd run away and keep running away


NC wins

Originally posted by Eminence
And how is a single guy shooting an automatic or a flamethrower going to hit someone who can dodge shots from over a dozen trained security personnel at once in an enclosed room, at least three of whom were carrying SMGs? The difference is that Griffin can TP around shooting the whole time, whereas the security personnel were stationary. NC will never know where the shots are coming from.

The more I think about this, this will come down to luck. NC is gonna be damn lucky to get close enough to go h2h on Griffin, and Griffin is gonna be damn lucky to get a clean shot at NC.

Nightcrawler said he couldn't see where he was going, it was a long shot, but he did it. You notice that the Jumpers all had pictures of where they were going, they're in the same boat Kurt is. And Xavier said he was jumping all over the place too fast for him to track, so as far as we know, he could teleport across the country if he wanted to. They never showed him porting that far, but nothing says he can't in the movie. Plus Kurt has the whole sticking to walls thing, and enhanced durability, fighting skills, etc...

But we dont SEE him TPing countries away at a time. NC's fighting prowess only comes in handy of he gets within arms reach of Griffin, you think Griffin is gonna stand by and allow that?

Never mind whats implied, what do we SEE? If Xavier actually said "Dude just jumped from Japan to Sweden", that'd be different.

Jumpers having pics of where they are going is a no brainer, how is someone, anyone with TP powers gonna jump if they dont know where they are going? My whole point about NC saying "I have to see where I am going" relates to him having to physically see it, like right there in person, a picture wont cut it. Yes, NC overcame this weakness, but I am just saying that Griffin has been doing it for years, fighting the whole time, while it's all new to NC.

He teleported out of a falling jet to save Rogue, despite the fact that he clearly couldn't see her at the time.

Exactly, he overcame this weakness, as I stated. At first he couldnt do that, he had to physically eye where he was going, think line of sight. Griffin has never known such a weakness, so yeah, advantage Griffin.

Obviously Kurt didn't need a line of sight. He teleported all throughout the white house, and into the oval office with no visual line of sight. He's just like Griffin, a picture will more than likely suffice.

How do you figure that? He TP'd down hallways, and the oval office door opened before he TP'd in.

Here, same vid as before:

XR2hEnjSqp0

Show me one scene where NC doesnt have line of sight as to where he jumps.

I'll say this, if NC gets in close on Griffin, Griffin will die quickly. BUT, what are the odds on him getting that close? About the same as NC presenting himself as a target for Griffin while Griffin is armed with whatever weapon he chooses.

I'll say now this is evenly matched. NC is a better h2h fighter, Griffin is a better jumper and has access to a shitload of weaponry.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Exactly, he overcame this weakness, as I stated. At first he couldnt do that, he had to physically eye where he was going, think line of sight. Griffin has never known such a weakness, so yeah, advantage Griffin. That makes no sense. Kurt at one point in his past had a "weakness" that Griffin never had, so despite the fact that he no longer has that weakness Griffin still has some sort of advantage in a versus scenario?

When he gets past the 1st guard, he turns right down the hallway, then ports to another hallway he hadn't been down or seen.

And hand to hand, Kurt wins, even his tail was strong enough to flip a man several feet in passing.

And Eminence, Griffin, and every Jumper has the same weakness. They can't easily jump to a place they've never been to or seen. Well, Nightcrawler can, but no Jumper was ever shown doing it.

Originally posted by Eminence
That makes no sense. Kurt at one point in his past had a "weakness" that Griffin never had, so despite the fact that he no longer has that weakness Griffin still has some sort of advantage in a versus scenario? It makes Griffin a more experienced Jumper, which might make all the difference in this battle. Griffin has been battling Paladins for years, he is hunted 24/7 by a highly financed orginization, how long has NC been jumping around fighting?

Well apparently, Kurt had been hunted for years and fighting as well, he was captured by Weapon X after all. And since Xavier never found him from the circus, that meant he'd been fighting at least since his teens.

Originally posted by KingD19
When he gets past the 1st guard, he turns right down the hallway, then ports to another hallway he hadn't been down or seen.

And hand to hand, Kurt wins, even his tail was strong enough to flip a man several feet in passing.

And Eminence, Griffin, and every Jumper has the same weakness. They can't easily jump to a place they've never been to or seen. Well, Nightcrawler can, but no Jumper was ever shown doing it. You talking about at :23? NC pwns the asian guy, then runs down the hall, makes a right, then runs past the other agent. He makes another right, then a split second later we see him running past the same guard, who says "Multiple subjects." He backtracked, he had already been there.

Tell me, why didnt NC just TP to the oval office dircetly? Why fight his way, instead of taking a more direct route? If it were Griffin, you can bet your ass he would have went directlyto the oval office with a bomb.

Yes h2h Kurt pwns, but it wont be h2h. Not likely anyway.

Originally posted by KingD19
Well apparently, Kurt had been hunted for years and fighting as well, he was captured by Weapon X after all. And since Xavier never found him from the circus, that meant he'd been fighting at least since his teens. Is this stayed in X2? Is it shown?

Griffin "I've been hunting them for years."

I don't think he backtracked, if you look at the hallways, he took a different one.

It doesn't have to be shown, in the comics, Xavier found him as a teen, in the movies, he was never found until the White House scene, where he was clearly well into adult hood. Weapon X found him, and I can guarantee you it wasn't instantly. If they couldn't keep track of Wolverine, how hard do you think it would of been for them to keep up with Kurt, even if he was blue?

Originally posted by KingD19
I don't think he backtracked, if you look at the hallways, he took a different one.

It doesn't have to be shown, in the comics, Xavier found him as a teen, in the movies, he was never found until the White House scene, where he was clearly well into adult hood. Weapon X found him, and I can guarantee you it wasn't instantly. If they couldn't keep track of Wolverine, how hard do you think it would of been for them to keep up with Kurt, even if he was blue? All those hallways connect, he came from where he had previously been, a blind man can see it.

Comics have no bearing here.

This fight is pointless until you set some sort of boundary, like the fight takes place in the Cathedral or something.

Originally posted by Placidity
This fight is pointless until you set some sort of boundary, like the fight takes place in the Cathedral or something. Keeping their jumping boundaries limitless is what makes it such a good matchup.

Kurt could always jump where he couldn't see, he was hesitant to do it because he could teleport into an object, it's not like he discovered something new about his powers when he teleported past the wall.


Anyway, Kurt keeps teleporting around until his smoke covers the area, and while Griffin is blindly shooting Kurt snaps his neck.

And Griffin is gonna sit in one area, obscured by smoke, blindly shooting, Sure, why not.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Here, same vid as before:

XR2hEnjSqp0

Show me one scene where NC doesnt have line of sight as to where he jumps.

I'll say this, if NC gets in close on Griffin, Griffin will die quickly. BUT, what are the odds on him getting that close? About the same as NC presenting himself as a target for Griffin while Griffin is armed with whatever weapon he chooses.

I'll say now this is evenly matched. NC is a better h2h fighter, Griffin is a better jumper and has access to a shitload of weaponry.


uh from 19 seconds - 21 seconds ermm

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And Griffin is gonna sit in one area, obscured by smoke, blindly shooting, Sure, why not. If you say so I guess I'll agree.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Keeping their jumping boundaries limitless is what makes it such a good matchup.

Not really. Cause then you're using the fact that Griffin can teleport to other countries even though it has no bearing on this fight.

Actually it does. He can TP away and jump a bus or a tank or a cruise ship at NC.

Yeah, he has to jump something moving already, and as soon as he jumps it at NC, NC can port out of the way, that's really a non factor.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Actually it does. He can TP away and jump a bus or a tank or a cruise ship at NC.

And how is a bus, tank or cruise ship going to hit NC, when he can tp himself and was fast enough to not get hit by multiple bullets?

Also, there's a limit to how much they can bring with them, so that cruiser is probably a no-go.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Actually it does. He can TP away and jump a bus or a tank or a cruise ship at NC. This has been covered at least twice already.

Originally posted by Robtard
And how is a bus, tank or cruise ship going to hit NC, when he can tp himself and was fast enough to not get hit by multiple bullets?

Also, there's a limit to how much they can bring with them, so that cruiser is probably a no-go. Griffin states "If it moves I can jump it."

Lets face it, dude, with both guys able to TP around like madmen, this will come down to luck.

Yeah, but a city bus(between 10 and 20 tons), moving at 40+ mph down the highway is a lot easier to jump than a cruise ship(200+ tons) moving extremely slowly through the water. Plus the biggest he jumped was the bus, there's nothing to prove it wasn't just him trying to sound macho, or using hyperbole. Plus in a battle when they can both port around like madmen, Kurt takes it. Because he's a better fighter, and can port and fight at the same time.

Originally posted by KingD19
Yeah, but a city bus(between 10 and 20 tons), moving at 40+ mph down the highway is a lot easier to jump than a cruise ship(200+ tons) moving extremely slowly through the water. Plus the biggest he jumped was the bus, there's nothing to prove it wasn't just him trying to sound macho, or using hyperbole. Plus in a battle when they can both port around like madmen, Kurt takes it. Because he's a better fighter, and can port and fight at the same time. The cruise ship was a bit of an exaggeration.

Griffin can jump anywhere in the world, and has whatever weapon/s he chooses, that goes a long way in evening the odds.

Not saying it doesn't, but if you look at Kurt's fight scenes, a single unrestrained hit from him is enough to knock an average man(AKA Griffin) unconscious. And he certainly mixes his fighting and porting well enough to get several hits in the span of a few seconds.

Originally posted by KingD19
Not saying it doesn't, but if you look at Kurt's fight scenes, a single unrestrained hit from him is enough to knock an average man(AKA Griffin) unconscious. And he certainly mixes his fighting and porting well enough to get several hits in the span of a few seconds. Yes I know, and I have already said Kurt pwns h2h. But he is gonna be damn lucky to get close enough for h2h, just like Griffin is gonna be damn lucky to get a clear shot at him.

Didn't Sam Jackson get close enough for hand to hand? As did several other agents?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Griffin states "If it moves I can jump it."

Lets face it, dude, with both guys able to TP around like madmen, this will come down to luck.

If we're going to use "luck" as the end all factor, then McClane can defeat anyone.

Griffin went in close on Sam. Also, those agents used those electrical stick thingies, NC doesnt have one.

Nightcrawler can also port around extremely fast in a small area, landing hits on Griffin before he can react. Griffin may be able to do that in theory, but he's shown nothing like it.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Griffin went in close on Sam. Also, those agents used those electrical stick thingies, NC doesnt have one.

More proof that NC is far faster in teleporting than the kid, those electrical grappling hooks travelled a lot slower than bullets, yet they tagged the jumpers.

Say it, "I just pwned myself."

^QFT

Originally posted by Robtard
More proof that NC is far faster in teleporting than the kid, those electrical grappling hooks travelled a lot slower than bullets, yet they tagged the jumpers.

Say it, "I just pwned myself." And those grappling hooks never catch Griffin, they catch Rice Bowl, thats it.

They caught every jumper they were used on. Including the ones in the beginning of the movie, and Hayden Christiansan.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And those grappling hooks never catch Griffin, they catch Rice Bowl, thats it.

I believe Griffin said he was caught once by Jackson, yet managed to escape, though received scar.

NC would have destroyed Jackson in a matter of seconds, considering the White House scene.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And those grappling hooks never catch Griffin, they catch Rice Bowl, thats it. So then Sam closed the distance without any additional assistance?

Say it again.

Got a scene number where one catches Griffin?

No, he says he got captured before, proving that Sam or another agent tagged him with one of the hooks. Saying otherwise is just ignorance and unwillingness to believe that Kurt would take him down. Besides, Kurt easily disarmed a few of those guards, what's to stop him from doing that against Griffin?

Originally posted by KingD19
No, he says he got captured before, proving that Sam or another agent tagged him with one of the hooks. Saying otherwise is just ignorance and unwillingness to believe that Kurt would take him down. Besides, Kurt easily disarmed a few of those guards, what's to stop him from doing that against Griffin? Those grappling hooks were new, remember when they were fighting in the Coliseum? Dude pulls one out and Griffin says "Thats new."

Originally posted by Eminence
So then Sam closed the distance without any additional assistance?

Well apparently that was a mistake, since the game(which chronicles events before the movie) has Griffin going up against Roland and other agents with shock sticks and the hooks before he even meets David in the coliseum.

Originally posted by Robtard
I believe Griffin said he was caught once by Jackson, yet managed to escape, though received scar.

NC would have destroyed Jackson in a matter of seconds, considering the White House scene. And Griffins forte is not h2h, is it?

Originally posted by KingD19
No, he says he got captured before, proving that Sam or another agent tagged him with one of the hooks. Saying otherwise is just ignorance and unwillingness to believe that Kurt would take him down. Besides, Kurt easily disarmed a few of those guards, what's to stop him from doing that against Griffin? Dude the hooks were NEW. They captured him some other way.

You didn't see the other post I made. Griffin's Story, or whatever the game was called. Has several scenes that take place before he even meets David in the coliseum, and he's fighting Paladins with hooks.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dude the hooks were NEW. They captured him some other way.

Unless it was faster than a bullet, it still doesn't bode well for Griffin here.

Point, NC would have destroyed any and all of Jackson's men, easily and without a scratch. See: White House scene.

Originally posted by Robtard
Unless it was faster than a bullet, it still doesn't bode well for Griffin here.

Point: NC would have destroyed any and all of Jackson's men, easily and without a scratch. And? Can they TP?

Originally posted by KingD19
You didn't see the other post I made. Griffin's Story, or whatever the game was called. Has several scenes that take place before he even meets David in the coliseum, and he's fighting Paladins with hooks. Movies only dude.

Third time now:Originally posted by Eminence
So then Sam closed the distance without any additional assistance?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And? Can they TP?

No.

That doesn't help Griffin now, does it, since he was tagged in the past by them.

Originally posted by Eminence
Third time now: Refresh my memory dude, sorry, I am doing like ten things at once.

Originally posted by Robtard
No.

That doesn't help Griffin now, does it, since he was tagged in the past by them. Does NC have these hooks? Can NC keep Griffin from jumping?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Refresh my memory dude, sorry, I am doing like ten things at once.

Does NC have these hooks? Can NC keep Griffin from jumping?

He's faster than Griffin and his teleporting/attack is faster than those hooks. I believe is the point.

Any way you slice it, NC has the advantage in this fight, only thing Griffin can do is jump further and bring back shit. Though in truth, NC can also teleport people/objects. So Griffin is only really better at escaping, as he can go from Canada to Thailand, in one jump.

Now if we say who wins a race across the world, or a running away contest, Griffin takes it.

Originally posted by Robtard
He's faster than Griffin and his teleporting/attack is faster than those hooks. I believe is the point.

Any way you slice it, NC has the advantage in this fight, only thing Griffin can do is jump further and bring back shit. Though in truth, NC can also teleport people/objects. So Griffin is only really better at escaping, as he can go from Canada to Thailand, in one jump. Griffin is faster than the hooks to, durh. And Griffin is a faster better jumper, show me a scene where NC jumps faster than Griffin.

And NC is shown TPing people, not objects, if I remember correctly.

Griffin can jump further, but NC ports faster, watch the White House scene, they slowed it down because in real time it would have been over in moments. The fastest Griffin ever jumped was in his base where he kept jumping a few feet in front of himself to build up momentum, then hit Jackson hard enough to knock him through the wall. And if NC can teleport a person, he can teleport at least a person sized object.

And the coliseum scene?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Griffin is faster than the hooks to, durh. And Griffin is a faster better jumper, show me a scene where NC jumps faster than Griffin.

And NC is shown TPing people, not objects, if I remember correctly.

But not a bullet, which NC can handle, ergo he's faster. Watch the White House scene, that trumps anything in Jumper. Why are we still disputing this, NC is clearly faster.

Well, clothes in an "object", not that he'd need to teleport in a gun or bat to take down Griffin, his fist, feet and tail would be enough.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And the coliseum scene?

Not more impressive than the White House scene.

There where more Secret Service agents/Security Guards than Paladins and they were all armed with guns, not silly little electrical hooks.

Originally posted by Robtard
But not a bullet, which NC can handle, ergo he's faster. Watch the White House scene, that trumps anything in Jumper. Why are we still disputing this, NC is clearly faster.

Well, clothes in an "object", not that he'd need to teleport in a gun or bat to take down Griffin, his fist, feet and tail would be enough. More of the "NC would take Griffin down h2h" I see. Yes, he would, IF he got close enough.

And no, he AINT faster than Griffin. Griffin is a far better jumper. Why didnt NC jump directly to the oval office?

Because he didn't know what the Oval office looked like, plus he was under mind control at the time. Unless Griffin had a pic, he probably wouldn't try to jump directly inside the office either.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And no, he AINT faster than Griffin. Griffin is a far better jumper. Why didnt NC jump directly to the oval office? What does that have to do with speed? At all?

Originally posted by KingD19
Because he didn't know what the Oval office looked like, plus he was under mind control at the time. Unless Griffin had a pic, he probably wouldn't try to jump directly inside the office either. And how hard would it have been for NC to get a pic of the oval office? You telling me he decided to NOT google it or find a pic in a magazine, and decided to take the harder route? Come on. NC didnt jump to the oval office cuz he is an inferior jumper, case closed.

What part of, Mind Controlled didn't you get? His instructions were simple, and he carried them out simply. If he were in control of his mind, he probably could have teleported directly inside the oval office.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Come on. NC didnt jump to the oval office cuz he is an inferior jumper, case closed.

Nightcrawler isn't a Jumper.

If anything, Jumpers are overpowered, boot leg teleporters.

Originally posted by KingD19
What part of, Mind Controlled didn't you get? His instructions were simple, and he carried them out simply. If he were in control of his mind, he probably could have teleported directly inside the oval office. Probably doesnt cut it. He didnt, therefore he cant.

Originally posted by Placidity
Nightcrawler isn't a Jumper. Jumping IS teleporting.

Let's use the since it didn't happen, it can't happen logic. Griffin didn't teleport faster than Nightcrawler, so he can't.

Griffin didn't teleport anywhere he hadn't seen before, so he can't.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi


Nightcrawler


XR2hEnjSqp0



I just notice from 1:34 to whenever you want to stop it...

its in slow motion, if it was sped up to normal speed he'd be teleporting
fast as ****... WHILE KICKING EVERYONE IN THE FACE!!!!!!!

Originally posted by KingD19
Let's use the since it didn't happen, it can't happen logic. Griffin didn't teleport faster than Nightcrawler, so he can't.

Griffin didn't teleport anywhere he hadn't seen before, so he can't. Griffin can TP anywhere he has seen in real life or in a pic. He can jump pretty much anywhere in the world.

NC cant.

Originally posted by Robtard
If we're going to use "luck" as the end all factor, then McClane can defeat anyone. crylaugh

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Probably doesnt cut it. He didnt, therefore he cant. You've already been shown two scenes in which Nightcrawler teleports to places he can't see. The first was in the halls of the White House, the second was when he zips out of the jet to save Rogue, who is falling through the air miles away.

Without slowing it down, I say all of that happened in under 7 seconds.
He also ported Rogue inside the pseudo-Cerebro room.

And Nightcrawler said he has to see where he's going, or have a clear picture, like he's been there before. If he can remember it, he can port there, simply put, if he can memorize a pic, he can port there.

Originally posted by Eminence
You've already been shown two scenes in which Nightcrawler teleports to places he can't see. The first was in the halls of the White House, the second was when he zips out of the jet to save Rogue, who is falling through the air miles away. Dude I know this, and again my point is being overlooked. Griffin has been jumping like that for YEARS, he is a more experienced, more skilled jumper.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dude I know this, and again my point is being overlooked. Griffin has been jumping like that for YEARS, he is a more experienced, more skilled jumper. When did night crawler get his abilities?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dude I know this, and again my point is being overlooked. Griffin has been jumping like that for YEARS, he is a more experienced, more skilled jumper. His only advantage is distance, for all his purported experience and skill.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dude I know this, and again my point is being overlooked. Griffin has been jumping like that for YEARS, he is a more experienced, more skilled jumper.

So you assume NC just started teleporting that very day in X2? He was born a mutant, dude.

Besides, Mairuzu just posted the White House clip, as I said 6+ times in here since the first page, NC is faster in every aspect. I'd watch it if I were you.

Originally posted by Eminence
His only advantage is distance, for all his purported experience and skill. Distance, speed, and weaponry.



Originally posted by Robtard
So you assume NC just started teleporting that very day in X2? He was born a mutant, dude.

Besides, Mairuzu just posted the White House clip, as I said 6+ times in here since the first page, NC is faster in every aspect. I'd watch it if I were you. And Griffin was jumping at age five. point?

I have watched it, and despite your insistence that NC is faster, I see Griffin as being faster. Face it, we are gonna disagree on that to the grave.

Whe NC was TPing around the oval office attack, when he was jumping jumping jumping, whats the farthest he TP'd, more or less?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

And Griffin was jumping at age five. point?

I have watched it, and despite your insistence that NC is faster, I see Griffin as being faster. Face it, we are gonna disagree on that to the grave.

Whe NC was TPing around the oval office attack, when he was jumping jumping jumping, whats the farthest he TP'd, more or less?

Dude, NC is clearly faster in that scene, you'd have to have zero objectivity to say otherwise.

We've already covered that Griffin can TP further, but repeat, not sure what his jumping to France and back will do in this fight, unless he's trying to run away.

Originally posted by Robtard
Dude, NC is clearly faster in that scene, you'd have to have zero objectivity to say otherwise.

We've already covered that Griffin can TP further, but repeat, not sure what his jumping to France and back will do in this fight, unless he's trying to run away.

Sure, why not.

And yes Griffin can TP further. In the Coliseum scene, when Griffin was jumping all over, how far roughly was he jumping? Trust me, I am going somewhere with this.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

And yes Griffin can TP further. In the Coliseum scene, when Griffin was jumping all over, how far roughly was he jumping? Trust me, I am going somewhere with this.

I think people have repeatedly agreed that Griffin can teleport further. If you're "going somewhere" with it, now is the time...

Originally posted by Placidity
I think people have repeatedly agreed that Griffin can teleport further. If you're "going somewhere" with it, now is the time... You have to answer my question first.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Sure, why not.

And yes Griffin can TP further. In the Coliseum scene, when Griffin was jumping all over, how far roughly was he jumping? Trust me, I am going somewhere with this.

Well, the scenes can be seen and one is clearly faster, NC being the one.

Don't recall exactly, but probably a few hundred feet. Not counting any cross continental jumps, if he did. Go!

Originally posted by Robtard
Well, the scenes can be seen and one is clearly faster, NC being the one. No. Watch closer. When NC TP's, there is at least a half a second to a full second before he reappears, whereas Griffin's jumps are so fast one can hardly follow them, they are almost instantaneous. Especially the scene where he TP's at Roland and knocks him through the wall, NC NEVER displays that kind of speed.

Good guess, that's about what I had. OK.....Same question regarding NC, when he was TPing around the oval office, when he was jumping jumping jumping.

When they slowed it down, the real speed of that fight would have been a couple seconds long. And correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Nightcrawler teleporting and fighting so fast they couldn't follow him at all?

Originally posted by KingD19
When they slowed it down, the real speed of that fight would have been a couple seconds long. And correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Nightcrawler teleporting and fighting so fast they couldn't follow him at all? I am talking about the fight in the halls, BEFORE the slowed down oval office fight. He TP's, and there is a short delay in him getting tto where he is going. And yeah, the STATIONARY agents could not follow him.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No. Watch closer. When NC TP's, there is at least a half a second to a full second before he reappears, whereas Griffin's jumps are so fast one can hardly follow them, they are almost instantaneous. Especially the scene where he TP's at Roland and knocks him through the wall, NC NEVER displays that kind of speed.

Good guess, that's about what I had. OK.....Same question regarding NC, when he was TPing around the oval office, when he was jumping jumping jumping.

Dude, seriosuly. As Mairuzu said, watch form 1:34 on, he's TPing and attacking so fast that all you see is his smoke leftovers, then the camera slows down so you can see how he's attacking. That means he can TP and attack in less than a second.JUST WATCH FROM 1:34 and don't be an ass.

Not sure, probably less than Griffin during the Coliseum fight. If you're going to say "ah, Griffin can TP further", we know. Though NC can easily TP further than what he showed in that one scene, as he's shown doing further in the movie; you know this.

XR2hEnjSqp0

Originally posted by Robtard
Dude, seriosuly. As Mairuzu said, watch form 1:34 on, he's TPing and attacking so fast that all you see is his smoke leftovers, then the camera slows down so you can see how he's attacking. That means he can TP and attack in less than a second.JUST WATCH FROM 1:34 and don't be an ass.

Not sure, probably less than Griffin during the Coliseum fight. If you're going to say "ah, Griffin can TP further", we know. Though NC can easily TP further than what he showed in that one scene, as he's shown doing further in the movie; you know this.

XR2hEnjSqp0 How am I being an ass for watching and observing, and seeing that there is a delay in NC getting where he TP's to? I am talking about NC jumping from point A to point B, and how long it TAKES him to get from point A to point B, NOT how long it takes him to say "I am gonna jump over there", then execute.

Griffin is all over the place in a near instantaneous fashion, in microseconds.

If Griffin and NC are standing side by side and decide to have a race, like a 100 yard TPing dash, and they have to TP five times each, then Griffin is gonna win, simple as that.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
How am I being an ass for watching and observing, and seeing that there is a delay in NC getting where he TP's to? I am talking about NC jumping from point A to point B, and how long it TAKES him to get from point A to point B, NOT how long it takes him to say "I am gonna jump over there", then execute.

Griffin is all over the place in a near instantaneous fashion, in microseconds.

If Griffin and NC are standing side by side and decide to have a race, like a 100 yard TPing dash, and they have to TP five times each, then Griffin is gonna win, simple as that.

Because he teleports and attacks so fast you don't actually see him. How is that not faster?

Originally posted by Robtard
Because he teleports and attacks so fast you don't actually see him. How is that not faster? Sorry dude, but that is BS. I am watching the vid right now, as I type. He poofs, a cloud of smoke appears where he was, and then there is a delay, then he reappears in a cloud of smoke. I see what you are getting at, why you are thinking what you are thinking, and here's why: When he is jumping all over the oval office, in the confined space, and the black clouds of smoke are everywhere, it is a bit hard to follow him. It appears that he is moving faster than he actually is. He is actually moving at the same speed as he is in the hallways outside the oval office, at a rate slower than Griffin.

And I still havent been given a legit answer as to why NC didnt just port directly to the oval office. If it had been Griffin, he'd have jumped right into the office with a bomb, BOOM, end of story. Why? Because he is a better jumper.

Hand to hand: Advantage NC

Weapons: Advantage Griffin

Jumping ability: Griffin by far

He's not a better jumper, he can jump farther, that's it. And I gave you an answer, you just ignored it. Nightcrawler was mind controlled by the cerebral fluid of Stryker's son. He had no higher thoughts than infiltrate, kill, escape. If he was in full command of his mind, and he had a picture of the oval office, he would have ported right in.

I saw that answer, not a legit one.

Stryker is a tactician, he is a military man, surely he wanted the job done right, dont you agree? If he wanted the job done right, dont you think he would have had NC port directly to the oval office?

"infiltrate, kill, escape.............." I agree. What better way to do this than to port to the oval office directly? Why didnt NC do this? Oh yeah, cuz he CANT.

I just proved Griffin is a bettter jumper. He can jump farther, and FASTER. Its right there in the vids.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

And I still havent been given a legit answer as to why NC didnt just port directly to the oval office. If it had been Griffin, he'd have jumped right into the office with a bomb, BOOM, end of story. Why? Because he is a better jumper.


No, because they wanted to show NC kick ass at the start of the movie. That should be obvious.

I'll just say this. If NC was up against Roland and those fools, he wouldn't get tagged once even if those weapons could work on NC. Griffin was making a big deal of David's house having a MASSIVE group of 5 Paladin noobs. The paladins shoot those little chargy things that move so slow compared to bullets. NC on the other hand, took out all those agents that were shooting much faster objects at him.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I saw that answer, not a legit one.

Stryker is a tactician, he is a military man, surely he wanted the job done right, dont you agree? If he wanted the job done right, dont you think he would have had NC port directly to the oval office?

"infiltrate, kill, escape.............." I agree. What better way to do this than to port to the oval office directly? Why didnt NC do this? Oh yeah, cuz he CANT.



Er, no.

1. It was obviously done to give visual orgasms.

2. It would have been pointless if the President's assassin was anonymous. The point was to show that a mutant had killed the President.

You never posted a Griffin vid. No one did as far as I saw. And saying he couldn't port directly into the oval office, is like saying he couldn't port directly into the fake Cerebro room. But he did do that didn't he???

Originally posted by Placidity
No, because they wanted to show NC kick ass at the start of the movie. That should be obvious. Ah, I see. Doesnt matter WHY they filmed it that way, what matters is that they DID film it that way.

Griffin was making a big deal because Roland was there, he was obviously a high ranking Paladin. It wasnt the number of Paladins, it was Rolands presence, thats all.






Originally posted by Placidity
Er, no.

1. It was obviously done to give visual orgasms.

2. It would have been pointless if the President's assassin was anonymous. The point was to show that a mutant had killed the President. Dude, there are other ways to claim responsibility for an assassination, much easier ways, ways that Stryker, intelligent as he is, would know of. But I did have several visual orgasms watching it.

Originally posted by KingD19
You never posted a Griffin vid. No one did as far as I saw. And saying he couldn't port directly into the oval office, is like saying he couldn't port directly into the fake Cerebro room. But he did do that didn't he??? How many times now has my point been missed on this?

My point is that Griffin never had such a weakness, that NC just had gotten over it, that Griffin therefore is more experienced.

He never had such a weakness? Where was it stated the Jumpers could actively port places they'd never been to or seen before? When kids do their 1st port, it's to a place they've seen before. I guarantee you if Griffin tried to jump into the oval office without seeing it, he would have the same 50/50 chance as Nightcrawler the 1st time he did. He would either end up inside something, or be okay.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

Dude, there are other ways to claim responsibility for an assassination, much easier ways, ways that Stryker, intelligent as he is, would know of.

There are other ways, sure. But you didn't really make a point. Saying he could have used a bomb or this or that doesn't prove anything.

Stryker did it his way and it worked.

...

Again, back to my previous point. If it was NC facing Roland and his pals, he would've pwned them in 10 seconds flat.

- Paladins use stupid electric charge shooters which are slow.
- Jumpers always get shot by these slow projectiles
- NC gets shot at by waaay more people at the same time with real bullets, yet he never gets shot.

Originally posted by KingD19
He never had such a weakness? Where was it stated the Jumpers could actively port places they'd never been to or seen before? When kids do their 1st port, it's to a place they've seen before. I guarantee you if Griffin tried to jump into the oval office without seeing it, he would have the same 50/50 chance as Nightcrawler the 1st time he did. He would either end up inside something, or be okay. I meant on screen, my bad.

What happens to griffin if he tries to teleport when NC has him in that smoke that he pulled th secret service agent into?

Originally posted by Placidity
There are other ways, sure. But you didn't really make a point. Saying he could have used a bomb or this or that doesn't prove anything.

Stryker did it his way and it worked.

...

Again, back to my previous point. If it was NC facing Roland and his pals, he would've pwned them in 10 seconds flat.

- Paladins use stupid electric charge shooters which are slow.
- Jumpers always get shot by these slow projectiles
- NC gets shot at by waaay more people at the same time with real bullets, yet he never gets shot. Stryker did it his way and it worked? What was Stryker's plan, his reason for sending NC to the white house?

Griffin is never HIT by those electrical charges, remember? He avoids them at ease.

I never questioned NC's agility.