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Seems pretty simple.

But I assume that I miss something here. Does Grievous have force powers that I do not know of?

Discuss.

Same reason they don't simply kill everyone else with the Force. It's a vicious and overly violent use of their powers. And they're all against that. But then you get Mace doing his thang, and he's always kewl.

Also, PIS.

Originally posted by Eminence
Also, PIS.

Beg your pardon, but no. PIS does not apply here.

Firstly, as Lord Lucien pointed out, Jedi are strongly against using the Force in such a violent way and besides, why should we assume it's so easy to "just kill Grievous with The Force?"

How exactly are they supposed to do that?

Mace Windu crushed his armour, but Mace is a very powerful, top-level Jedi. I highly doubt that the average Jedi could have done that even if they were willing to.

I remember that Grevious was able to resist a force push from Dooku...don't know how...

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Beg your pardon, but no. PIS does not apply here.PIS applies pretty much everywhere in SW, especially here. Obi-Wan could've started out his duel with Grievous by... not dueling him, and instead just chucking him into a wall like he did at the end. Rinse and repeat. Someone like Ki-Adi-Mundi, who was powerful enough to pull a barge out of the ground while battered and wounded, should have easily been able to simply levitate Grievous into the air and have someone else decapitate him.

If you watch the old cw cartoons there were times that the jedi tried to use tk on Grievous but he dodged them somehow.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is PIS?

Plot Induced Stupidity.

Jar Jar killing too many battle droids.

It's true, there's a lot of stuff that makes no sense when you think about it. I'm surprised they don't just destroy each other's weapons or disarm each other with well timed telekinesis, or just do stuff like what Dooku did in the battle between Obi-Wan and Anakin. Why not impale Obi-Wan on your lightsaber if you can just lift him into the air and choke him in the middle of a fight?

An annoying EU one is, if Jedi have cortosis daggers, why don't they use them as parrying daggers in lightsaber duels? Nevermind how inconsistently cortosis is portrayed.

Originally posted by Barringer
It's true, there's a lot of stuff that makes no sense when you think about it. I'm surprised they don't just destroy each other's weapons or disarm each other with well timed telekinesis, or just do stuff like what Dooku did in the battle between Obi-Wan and Anakin. Why not impale Obi-Wan on your lightsaber if you can just lift him into the air and choke him in the middle of a fight?

An annoying EU one is, if Jedi have cortosis daggers, why don't they use them as parrying daggers in lightsaber duels? Nevermind how inconsistently cortosis is portrayed.

Because it's hard to mine and for an extended analysis read Dart Ban:PoD first 50 or so pages have cortosis mentions in them. It's also a good read.

Originally posted by mattatom
Because it's hard to mine and for an extended analysis read Dart Ban:PoD first 50 or so pages have cortosis mentions in them. It's also a good read.

That's part of its inconsistent portrayal. In one of its first appearances in Vision of the Future, it is said of it:

"Aside from the lightsaber thing, the stuff's basically useless. It's too weak and crumbly to build with - a good blaster carbine bolt will shatter it."

Then in Path of Destruction says:

"Impervious to both heat and energy, cortosis was prized in the construction of armor and shielding by both commercial and military interests, especially with the galaxy at war. Highly resistant to blaster bolts, cortosis alloys supposedly could withstand even the blade of a lightsaber. Unfortunately, the very properties that made it so valuable also made it extremely difficult to mine. Plasma torches were virtually useless; it would take days to burn away even a small section of cortosis-laced rock. The only effective way to mine it was through the brute force of hydraulic jacks pounding relentlessly away at a vein, chipping the cortosis free bit by bit."

Originally posted by Barringer
That's part of its inconsistent portrayal. In one of its first appearances in Vision of the Future, it is said of it:

"Aside from the lightsaber thing, the stuff's basically useless. It's too weak and crumbly to build with - a good blaster carbine bolt will shatter it."

Then in Path of Destruction says:

"Impervious to both heat and energy, cortosis was prized in the construction of armor and shielding by both commercial and military interests, especially with the galaxy at war. Highly resistant to blaster bolts, cortosis alloys supposedly could withstand even the blade of a lightsaber. Unfortunately, the very properties that made it so valuable also made it extremely difficult to mine. Plasma torches were virtually useless; it would take days to burn away even a small section of cortosis-laced rock. The only effective way to mine it was through the brute force of hydraulic jacks pounding relentlessly away at a vein, chipping the cortosis free bit by bit."

Ahh never knew about Vision of the Future, sorry, damn these inconsistencies!

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Same reason they don't simply kill everyone else with the Force. It's a vicious and overly violent use of their powers. And they're all against that. But then you get Mace doing his thang, and he's always kewl.

Mace? That guy is a prancing soccer playing fairy, as you will know if you have even glanced at the EU. Even the movies show is whiny side - like when he burst into tears when he got cut. The guy is only fractionally more manly than Darth Vader.

Every Jedi should just Force throw Grievous until he is broken, or until he runs off.

Originally posted by Happy_Sith
Mace? That guy is a prancing soccer playing fairy, as you will know if you have even glanced at the EU. Even the movies show is whiny side - like when he burst into tears when he got cut. The guy is only fractionally more manly than Darth Vader.
Lolwut?
Originally posted by Happy_Sith

Every Jedi should just Force throw Grievous until he is broken, or until he runs off.

Yeah, it isn't as if they have to avoid aggressive feelings or misuse of this all powerful, poorly defined, omnipotent energy field or anything... OH SHI-!

Originally posted by Eminence
Also, PIS.

It would only be PIS if the Jedi killed most if not all of their enemies with the force.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis

Lolwut?


Yeah, it isn't as if they have to avoid aggressive feelings or misuse of this all powerful, poorly defined, omnipotent energy field or anything... OH SHI-!

I will not do the regular, 'quote by quote' system that encourages internet warriorism/foolishness/etc.

Thus, I will simply address your post.

First, this 'Lolwut' is, I presume, in agreement with my assessment of the Cry-Baby, sissy, Windu.

Second, the Jedi can force push when they feel like it. Pity they didn't feel like it when GG was on the attack, apparently causing maheem.

Originally posted by Happy_Sith
I will not do the regular, 'quote by quote' system that encourages internet warriorism/foolishness/etc.

Thus, I will simply address your post.

First, this 'Lolwut' is, I presume, in agreement with my assessment of the Cry-Baby, sissy, Windu.

Second, the Jedi can force push when they feel like it. Pity they didn't feel like it when GG was on the attack, apparently causing maheem.

Other than Windu sissy thing, most of what you say is true of the Jedi and GG. The inconsistencies are usually chalked up to the different power levels of Jedi. But the likes of Mundi and Obi should have been able to manipulate Grevious to a greater degree with TK.

On Hypori I think the Jedi were fatigued which allowed Grevious to outfight them. He does have enhanced speed and reflexes.

Warriorism?


'Lolwut' is traditionally used to indicate incredulity or disbelief at the content of a particular line or post. As such, 'agreement with assessment' is precisely the opposite of what I intended to convey. Whether this was an honest misunderstanding or an attempt to color the rest of the debate will be shown with your next post.

I find the label 'sissy' to be grossly misplaced if applied to Windu. His character in the films was clearly an attempt at the stereotypical 'strong, silent type' of warrior. His portrayal in the EU is not much different. Unless you are simply articulating a dislike for the character I would ask you to substantiate what you mean by 'cry-baby'. That certainly isn't how the character appeared to me.

The Jedi, according to Yoda 'must not use the Force for attack' or some such. His teachings, as passed on to Luke, were very clear on that fact. The offensive application of Telekinetic abilities appears to be the domain of the Dark Side. As it is a major moral imperative for the Jedi to avoid the Dark Side, using their Force Push to dispatch Grievous is not only out of character, it is contrary to their character.

Originally posted by Allankles
Other than Windu sissy thing,

Wat?

I have ****ed crossdressrs more heterosexual than Windu.

I'll read the rest of your post later.

Bye.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis


Thanks, that was a great send off.

Now, really, I must sleep.

This place is addictive.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
It would only be PIS if the Jedi killed most if not all of their enemies with the force. I meant simply overpowering him with the Force instead of engaging him in a duel and dying.

Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan defeated quite a few battle droids in TPM with the Force.

Originally posted by Barringer
Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan defeated quite a few battle droids in TPM with the Force.

Very true.

They can attack when they feel like it.

But against GG, they get the Flu.

Originally posted by Eminence
I meant simply overpowering him with the Force instead of engaging him in a duel and dying.

Oh, well now I don't know how to answer that. Thought you meant like ending him with the force.

I'm going to have to ask you to NOT make posts like that, Happy Sith. You started the debate, you can either concede or follow through. Belittling someone who disagrees you is not an option here.

As far as Jedi using telekinesis against Grievous...

At Hypori, the Jedi were fatigued and so Grievous was able to outfight them. They had already survived a crash-landing and then fought through many battle droids before retreating into the wreckage. But they tried to use telekinetic attacks against him and he evaded them.

At Boz Pity, during the fighting, Mace Windu used the Force to drop a discarded STAP on top of Grievous after he killed two Jedi Masters. Grievous survived the explosion and was repaired.

And then Windu's crushing attack on Grievous during the Battle of Coruscant.

In any case, Grievous did not get toppled by it all. I'm sure Dooku may have taught him methods of resisting telekinetic attacks.

Originally posted by Captain REX
I'm going to have to ask you to NOT make posts like that, Happy Sith. You started the debate, you can either concede or follow through. Belittling someone who disagrees you is not an option here.



What debate? This is a thread for everything. If someone wants to post a porn link or two, I would whack off to it.

I have nothing to concede.

Grevious is an armour plated robot with the brain of a warlord.

He's smart, though cowardly, which is how and why he avoids so many run ins with jedi...though when he has no other choice, he uses his armour design to much advantage: seperating his arms to wield four lightsabers; spinning his wrists to make an impenetrable shield; crouching low to avoid and strikes that might be made over the shield of spinning sabers; AND striking with one or two sabers at a time...

the main advantage he has in all of this is the armour, it conceals all of his vital organs...and most things seem to have trouble penetrating it

Originally posted by CadoAngelus
Grevious is an armour plated robot with the brain of a warlord.

He's smart, though cowardly, which is how and why he avoids so many run ins with jedi...though when he has no other choice, he uses his armour design to much advantage: seperating his arms to wield four lightsabers; spinning his wrists to make an impenetrable shield; crouching low to avoid and strikes that might be made over the shield of spinning sabers; AND striking with one or two sabers at a time...

the main advantage he has in all of this is the armour, it conceals all of his vital organs...and most things seem to have trouble penetrating it

If I was a Jedi I would never fight him with my sword. That is exactly what he wants.

I would just treat him like any other object and toss him around for a while. Maybe I would take him back to the Jedi temple with me. What is he going to do? He can't even use the Force!

Originally posted by Happy_Sith
If I was a Jedi I would never fight him with my sword. That is exactly what he wants.

I would just treat him like any other object and toss him around for a while. Maybe I would take him back to the Jedi temple with me. What is he going to do? He can't even use the Force!

Maybe, because of his foot claws, the jedi couldn't force push/pull/levatate him, maybe thats why they were so reluctant to use the force on grevious

Originally posted by CadoAngelus
Maybe, because of his foot claws, the jedi couldn't force push/pull/levatate him, maybe thats why they were so reluctant to use the force on grevious

I thought of that. I would just push him around making sure he could not come near me, and work the claws out. Once he has loses grip, just once, I have him, and I get to take him back to the temple with me.

Or maybe I would just steal his sabers.

It is time for my nap, but I will be back.

Originally posted by Happy_Sith
What debate? This is a thread for everything. If someone wants to post a porn link or two, I would whack off to it.

I have nothing to concede.

Dude if you are gonna keep this up, then GTFO.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Dude if you are gonna keep this up, then GTFO.

I'm bored with this thread.

You have it.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Warriorism?


'Lolwut' is traditionally used to indicate incredulity or disbelief at the content of a particular line or post. As such, 'agreement with assessment' is precisely the opposite of what I intended to convey. Whether this was an honest misunderstanding or an attempt to color the rest of the debate will be shown with your next post.

I find the label 'sissy' to be grossly misplaced if applied to Windu. His character in the films was clearly an attempt at the stereotypical 'strong, silent type' of warrior. His portrayal in the EU is not much different. Unless you are simply articulating a dislike for the character I would ask you to substantiate what you mean by 'cry-baby'. That certainly isn't how the character appeared to me.

The Jedi, according to Yoda 'must not use the Force for attack' or some such. His teachings, as passed on to Luke, were very clear on that fact. The offensive application of Telekinetic abilities appears to be the domain of the Dark Side. As it is a major moral imperative for the Jedi to avoid the Dark Side, using their Force Push to dispatch Grievous is not only out of character, it is contrary to their character.

RN, don't bother arguing with an individual that has a single digit IQ and a cauliflower growing on his dick, arguing with him will only make it enlarge further thus causing more pain.

Originally posted by Happy_Sith
Once he has loses grip, just once, I have him, and I get to take him back to the temple with me.

Originally posted by Happy_Sith
Thanks, that was a great send off.

Now, really, I must sleep.

This place is addictive.

So, what you're saying... is that I win.

Originally posted by Happy_Sith
What debate? This is a thread for everything. If someone wants to post a porn link or two, I would whack off to it.

I have nothing to concede.

Keep that up and I think you'll find you won't be welcome here. Please stay on topic.

-

Yeah, I was thinking that Grievous' claws (which can be magnetized?) keeps him from just being flung around like its nothing.

Just ban him already rex.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Keep that up and I think you'll find you won't be welcome here. Please stay on topic.

-

Yeah, I was thinking that Grievous' claws (which can be magnetized?) keeps him from just being flung around like its nothing. That's not nearly good enough. At they very least, a Jedi could still hold him immobile or something.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Yeah, I was thinking that Grievous' claws (which can be magnetized?) keeps him from just being flung around like its nothing.

I don't think they're magnatised, it's more a case of, they can grip and so he can climb much like a cat climbs a tree...with it's claws digging into whatever surface they're attached to

Originally posted by CadoAngelus
I don't think they're magnatised, it's more a case of, they can grip and so he can climb much like a cat climbs a tree...with it's claws digging into whatever surface they're attached to

In Labyrinth of Evil, it is said they're magnetized when he uses them to fight Mace Windu atop a moving maglev train.

I was just watching the duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan, and at one point they're crossing some thin pipes attacking each other while trying to maintain balance. A well time Force push would have been handy there, I think.

I think pretty much every Force power is typically forgotten when it most makes sense to use them (Obi-Wan using Force speed to catch up with Qui-Gon and Maul), and then they are used when necessary for plot advancement (Maul pushing Obi-Wan into the pit).

In one of the Clone Wars episodes, three jedi, including Shaak Ti, attempt to push Greivous but he dodges all of their attempts.

I thought I read somewhere that Kenobi used Force Speed when trying to catch up with Maul and Jinn.

Originally posted by Barringer
In Labyrinth of Evil, it is said they're magnetized when he uses them to fight Mace Windu atop a moving maglev train.

I was just watching the duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan, and at one point they're crossing some thin pipes attacking each other while trying to maintain balance. A well time Force push would have been handy there, I think.

I think pretty much every Force power is typically forgotten when it most makes sense to use them (Obi-Wan using Force speed to catch up with Qui-Gon and Maul), and then they are used when necessary for plot advancement (Maul pushing Obi-Wan into the pit).

Ok, thn i guess they're magnatised. I've not read Labyrinth of Evil...not thought about buying the book yet

Actually quite enjoyable.

Another thought... using the Force usually requires concentration. What if they do not have the time to create enough power to hold Grievous still?

Surely they would prepare themselves for Grievous.

They have no hesitation in attack - especially with sabers.

I am still unsure as to why one does not use the force to kill him, without engaging in saber combat.

I've put it down to the average Jedi not having the ability to. That and they'd be hesitant to use such lethal and destructive power for fear of the Dark Side.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I've put it down to the average Jedi not having the ability to.


OK


That and they'd be hesitant to use such lethal and destructive power for fear of the Dark Side.

But the sabers they use can cut through pretty much anything. This is surely as lethal and destructive as many of the Force moves.

Originally posted by Happy_Sith
OK



But the sabers they use can cut through pretty much anything. This is surely as lethal and destructive as many of the Force moves. The saber just takes a movement of the limbs. To summon the Force to kill someone takes the proper mentality. The Jedi would need to want to kill them, which as we all know is very un-Jedily and lead to the Dark Side.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The saber just takes a movement of the limbs. To summon the Force to kill someone takes the proper mentality. The Jedi would need to want to kill them, which as we all know is very un-Jedily and lead to the Dark Side.

What about this:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Electric_Judgment

?

Yeah I was thinking of that when I was writing. Such a gay plot device. Guess it turns out that Plo Koon's a dick.

Mace could force crush him?

Also, if Grevious coughs, doesn't that mean he can be choked? Or at least have his mechanical breathing tube crumpled?

Originally posted by The Ground
Mace could force crush him?

Also, if Grevious coughs, doesn't that mean he can be choked? Or at least have his mechanical breathing tube crumpled?

Yes.

I wish that Lucas had at least made him Force capable.

Or at least Force-resistant.

Didn't Grevious have Master Sifo Dyas blood running through his veins? I wonder what that was about? He had midichlorians in his blood stream iirc.

Originally posted by Allankles
Didn't Grevious have Master Sifo Dyas blood running through his veins? I wonder what that was about? He had midichlorians in his blood stream iirc.

I think they tried to make him Force Sensitive but it failed.

Though I recall some speculation that it perhaps helped keep him alive (or heal faster?).

Meh.

Originally posted by Happy_Sith
I thought of that. I would just push him around making sure he could not come near me, and work the claws out. Once he has loses grip, just once, I have him, and I get to take him back to the temple with me.

Or maybe I would just steal his sabers.

If they are powerful enough, they could simply rip him out of the ground, cement chunks and all that..

then bang him around the walls, ceiling or w/e was there. or crush him. Actually I think sith would be pleased dealing with GG because they get to have some fun.

Originally posted by kotorfan
If they are powerful enough, they could simply rip him out of the ground, cement chunks and all that..

then bang him around the walls, ceiling or w/e was there. or crush him. Actually I think sith would be pleased dealing with GG because they get to have some fun.

Ya!

That's what I thought.

He would be a Sidious play toy!

The word "PIS" is used way too often. I guess that the reason Jedi doesnt kill him with the force, is because they would find it to be a missuse of the gift given them. Or they are worried that taking the life of another through the force might lead to them exploring more simple ways to clear situations up in the future, ending up with more and more killing in the name of the Jedi order and what they define as right.

They kill with a lightsaber also, and they have no problem with that. And they use the force to guide their saber through enemies. Is that misusing the force?

Not as far as I know. Jedimaster Yarael Poof opposed violence for a fact. I'm more than definate that so did extremely many other Jedi. In a war, people die. A Jedi, while not wanting to kill, might be obliged to do so when he is charged by a dozen stormtroopers.

You don't have to kill just because you can. I'm quite certain a decent few Jedi would agree with me. And there's quite the difference between using the Force with purpose of killing, and using it with purpose of keeping yourself alive on hostile ground.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Actually quite enjoyable.

Another thought... using the Force usually requires concentration. What if they do not have the time to create enough power to hold Grievous still?

That seems to be a valid assessment.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Not as far as I know. Jedimaster Yarael Poof opposed violence for a fact. I'm more than definate that so did extremely many other Jedi. In a war, people die. A Jedi, while not wanting to kill, might be obliged to do so when he is charged by a dozen stormtroopers.

You don't have to kill just because you can. I'm quite certain a decent few Jedi would agree with me. And there's quite the difference between using the Force with purpose of killing, and using it with purpose of keeping yourself alive on hostile ground. Eloquence. Right here.

I have no idea what that means

Still don't get it. Should I be flattered or offended?

flattered,,, hes sayin that your good engrish.

That's very much a compliment They don't teach english in my school, so my knowledge is all dad, movies and rented education books Thank you.