Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

God of War II Kratos & Dante with all abilties(except Doppleganger & Bangle of Time) vs Kain-End of Defiance. Kain CANNOT use Inspire Hate. If the fight needs to be fair, Kain can have his Soul Reaver tooken away(that's up to everyone to decide).

By end of Defiance do you mean scion or before he absorbs Raziel?

If its typical Defiance Kain then perhaps they have a chance, although he is not likely to have a chance if you take away his sword....

Yes. End of Defiance. If he's too powerful, then he's allowed before he asorbs Raziel.

That's up for you to decide, if his sword gets tooken away.

I think he can have a good fight with them if its before he absorbs Raziel, allow him to keep the Soul reaver, but lets just assume Raziel did not allow the wraith blade to get absorbed into him.

Kain may take this one. He probably could take out Kratos easily, but he will have a little trouble with Dante.

kratos kills any form of kain including scion
dante kills ny form of kain including scion

whats so hard about this?

Originally posted by Gumachi
Kain may take this one. He probably could take out Kratos easily, but he will have a little trouble with Dante.

Agreed, Dante has the highest amount of speed and his time powers are a pain in the @ss although Kain can teleport to negate the speed and time powers to a degree. Kratos will be fairly useless imo, his strength and power mean little because he cant catch Kain teleporting and his long range weapons are limited.

dante can teleport too, with greater ease, over greater distances and instantaneously without mist.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
kratos kills any form of kain including scion
dante kills ny form of kain including scion

whats so hard about this?

Bullshit. He barely could kill the Gods, without help. Now he stands a chance against The DARK GOD, Kain? LOL, Kain rips out his soul. Hell, 1 sip of blood and he has Kratos' power, or he could just TK push him, and The Blade of Olympus will be in his hands. Dante could resist TK with his Devil Powers, but, Kratos is screwed.

He probably does, but with Sparda, Kain will have some trouble(I know he beats BO2 Kain).

Kain can teleport at great distances, also: @3:35-3:36KEQVULC9PwA&feature=related

KEQVULC9PwA&feature=related @0:15 shows he teleported at a great distance.

Gumachi you're a jackass.

"Dark God Kain?"

Lol.

Actually, he was a Dark God in SR2.

Yay for irrelevant titles.

And Kain's TK is enough to restrain weaklings. People hype TK like it is some sort of unbreakable bond. It is a physical force to restrain physical objects, nothing more, and you're an idiot if you think it will restrain someone as physically powerful as Kratos. As for TKing the Blade of Olympus into his hands, I'm sorry, but Kain is not prying the Blade from Kratos' hands, Kain's TK is weak.

Also, your vids did not show Kain teleporting anywhere.

As for ripping out his soul, you act like the Soul Reaver will ever get the chance to take Kratos' soul, Kratos shatters Kain into pieces with the Blade of Olympus.

He did it Mobieus Ares did it to Kratos(I even think Athena/Helios stopped Kratos from hitting the ground in CoO). And I said "TK push. "

Re-look at it.

Heh, all he needs to do is hit him.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Kain can only soul steal if he hits him with the Reaver, which would never happen.

That said, time slow ftw.

Kain is able to hit Alucard(time-slow), but he can't hit Kratos?

Originally posted by Gumachi
He did it Mobieus Ares did it to Kratos(I even think Athena/Helios stopped Kratos from hitting the ground in CoO). And I said "TK push. "

Re-look at it.

Heh, all he needs to do is hit him.



Kain is able to hit Alucard(time-slow), but he can't hit Kratos? 1. Moebius is a frail old man. And the difference between Ares' TK and Kratos' is gigantic.

2. No, how's about you do an adequate job of pointing out where he teleports?

3. Alucard was not a Time God last I checked.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. Moebius is a frail old man. And the difference between Ares' TK and Kratos' is gigantic.

2. No, how's about you do an adequate job of pointing out where he teleports?

3. Alucard was not a Time God last I checked.

1. Already broken this argument into bits

2. We all know Kain teleports in the hundreds of vids ive shown so how is it relevent...

3.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Yay for irrelevant titles.


I love it when I toss over your arguments with what you yourself have said, although in the same thread? lawlz

Altho your information is incorrect, Kratos WAS God of War.....thats the only God hes been...





Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Yay for irrelevant titles.

And Kain's TK is enough to restrain weaklings. People hype TK like it is some sort of unbreakable bond. It is a physical force to restrain physical objects, nothing more, and you're an idiot if you think it will restrain someone as physically powerful as Kratos. As for TKing the Blade of Olympus into his hands, I'm sorry, but Kain is not prying the Blade from Kratos' hands, Kain's TK is weak.

Also, your vids did not show Kain teleporting anywhere.

As for ripping out his soul, you act like the Soul Reaver will ever get the chance to take Kratos' soul, Kratos shatters Kain into pieces with the Blade of Olympus.

As I said in other threads, Kain doesnt have to TK Kratos' arms, hands, legs or chest, he could just grab him by the head, if you can prove Kratos can put as much strength through his head, neck etc as he has through his arms then you may actually have a point...

Bias crap, Kratos is by far the weakest in this thread and the most useless....

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. Moebius is a frail old man. And the difference between Ares' TK and Kratos' is gigantic.

2. No, how's about you do an adequate job of pointing out where he teleports?

3. Alucard was not a Time God last I checked.

1. Kratos used TK?

2. Oh, sorry. Wrong video. JM18zXwhEBc&feature=related @3:36-3:35. The "other" video I posted shows he teleported at a great distance(but that statement was to Leon).

3. Never said he was. As I said; If he can hit Al by slowing time, he can hit Kratos without slowing time.

Can't 'God of War' be a title?

Originally posted by Burning thought
1. Already broken this argument into bits

2. We all know Kain teleports in the hundreds of vids ive shown so how is it relevent...

3.



I love it when I toss over your arguments with what you yourself have said, although in the same thread? lawlz

Altho your information is incorrect, Kratos WAS God of War.....thats the only God hes been...







As I said in other threads, Kain doesnt have to TK Kratos' arms, hands, legs or chest, he could just grab him by the head, if you can prove Kratos can put as much strength through his head, neck etc as he has through his arms then you may actually have a point...

Bias crap, Kratos is by far the weakest in this thread and the most useless.... 1. If you think Ares' TK is less than Kain's then you are an idiot. Ares has TKed hundreds of Barbarian warriors into the air, popping their heads and whatnot.

2. Never said he didn't. But those vids did not show that.

3. Are you an idiot? Wanna know the difference? Kratos can actually travel through time, as seen when transporting the Titans to Mount Olympus. He has taken the power of the Sisters of Fate, did you even play the second game? Because for most of the game, that was Kratos' goal.

4. Let me try to explain this to you. Kratos would still have the strength of his legs. Which he can use to run, thus building motion. The TK around Kratos' neck would be broken because Kratos' legs would be able to move him through it. Try grabbing a grown man much stronger than you in his arms and legs by the neck(JUST the neck) and restrain him from moving. It's not going to work. And if you really think that for some reason Kratos' neck would be weaker than the rest of his body, lol.

5. Kratos is by far the strongest in this thread and if he fights Kain while Kain does not have the Reaver...Lol.

Originally posted by Gumachi
1. Kratos used TK?

2. Oh, sorry. Wrong video. JM18zXwhEBc&feature=related @3:36-3:35. The "other" video I posted shows he teleported at a great distance(but that statement was to Leon).

3. Never said he was. As I said; If he can hit Al by slowing time, he can hit Kratos without slowing time.

Can't 'God of War' be a title? 1. Obvious typo is obvious.

2. K. Never denied he could teleport.

3. How would he do that, considering Kratos has reacted to and has shown to be more agile than Kain?

It is.

3. So if anyone could take the control of the mirror, they have the power like the Fates?

3. Your the one who was babbling about him hitting Alucard by slowing down time. You act as if Kratos is faster than the speed of light. Kain zipped fast when he he stabbed Moebius. He wouldn't need to slow down time, he isn't that fast. And all I saying is, he wouldn't need to slow down time to hit Kratos. You said he needed time-slow to hit Al, but he wouldn't need to slow down time to hit Kratos. Kratos reaction is shitty. And if you were thinking for the little bolts Zeus throws, he hasn't done that outside of gameplay.

Kratos is the strongest physically, yeah.

Originally posted by Gumachi
3. So if anyone could take the control of the mirror, they have the power like the Fates?

3. Your the one who was babbling about him hitting Alucard by slowing down time. You act as if Kratos is faster than the speed of light. Kain zipped fast when he he stabbed Moebius. He wouldn't need to slow down time, he isn't that fast. And all I saying is, he wouldn't need to slow down time to hit Kratos. You said he needed time-slow to hit Al, but he wouldn't need to slow down time to hit Kratos. Kratos reaction is shitty. And if you were thinking for the little bolts Zeus throws, he hasn't done that outside of gameplay.

Kratos is the strongest physically, yeah. 1. Maybe, maybe not, never been tested. Impossible to determine.

2. Because Alucard has no reason to be immune to it.

The Moebius feat? If you think that was some incredible feat of speed, you are full of shit, he moved like five feet. Whoa.

Kratos' reaction is shitty? Is that why he deflected Zeus' lighting at the end of the fight, which was a completely unavoidable occurrence?

Also, have you seen the GoW3 trailer? He clearly shows greater speed and agility than Kain in it.

2. Kratos isn't either.

Has Kratos "zipped" that fast?

You mean in gameplay? dur

If you look at the leaked God of War III gameplay, Kratos was the same speed as he was in the past God of Wars.

Originally posted by Gumachi
2. Kratos isn't either.

Has Kratos "zipped" that fast?

You mean in gameplay? dur

If you look at the leaked God of War III gameplay, Kratos was the same speed as he was in the past God of Wars. 1. What? Kratos has used the time powers.

2. Moved five feet in half a second? Yeah. Normal people have done that.

3. Are you an idiot? Answer this question. This scene is unavoidable, he blocks it on his own, you press no button, it always happens, thus making it not normal "gameplay."

4. Gameplay? Who the hell is talking about the gameplay? I am talking about the actual cutscenes in it.

Originally posted by Gumachi
2. Kratos isn't either.

Has Kratos "zipped" that fast?

You mean in gameplay? dur

If you look at the leaked God of War III gameplay, Kratos was the same speed as he was in the past God of Wars.
first part makes no sense.

heres the vid: http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=god+of+war+2+kratos+vs+zues+kratos+-site%3Ayoutube.com&emb=on&num=20# at exactly 5:38 he blocks the lightning, no button command initiates it.

and obviously you havent seen the trailer if you think dj is talking about gamplay.

1. That doesn't mean he can resist time-slowing. The Fates couldn't.

2. KEQVULC9PwA&feature=related @5:25-5:26. So a human could move that fast?

3. How could you react to that? It would be impossible to to do whatever. i_DE2Z0XYWY&feature=related@2:37

The God of War III trailer was actual gameplay(and I was talking about leaked, but still).

If you cant see that he reacted to the lighting, then your blind. I cant believe you just said that he never did it when i GAVE YOU ACTUAL PROOF RIGHT THERE. are you trying to make me flame??

Tricking zues has nothing to do with ANYTHING, so why did you even mention it?

Unless someone fighting kratos can move faster than 60 thousand miles a second, then there screwed. completely.

And who said kratos was resistant to time powers? if no one did, then why even mention that?

Anyone could have reacted to that. Besides, it wasn't real lighting to begin with. What? I'm supposted to be suprised because he "react" to that little crap?

Misread his posts.

Reaction speeds and "movement" speeds are entirely different. He couldn't react to the pillar. Someone could run circles around Kratos, and he wouldn't know WHAT to do.

Wasn't that was TGE talking about?


pNXuI9yHXc4 If your talking about that video, then it is actual gameplay.

no, hardly anybody can, it was real lightning, if anything stronger because it was coming from a god. And what do you mean little crap? Obviously your just denying it becuase you know its the truth.

I know they are, which is why absolutley no melee attacks can harm kratos becuase his reactions are outstanding.
again, what does the pillar have to do with anything?

I dont know what tge said, kratos is not reasistant to time powers, but he could use his own to cancel them out, so in a way he is.

Yes it was actual video, he was sprinting quite fast.

It wasn't real lighting.

No. They arn't. If he could react to lighting, why couldn't he react to the pillar? Yeah, it's pretty easy to hit Kratos(atleast from the way I see it).

They may or may not mean what he said, but it sounded like it. Nevertheless, he isn't resistnt. Yeah, if he finds a Fate's Statue.

True. But it really doesn't impress me by that much. He looked the same as he did in the past GoWs. And if i'm not being mistakened, he is wearing Hermes Boots.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. If you think Ares' TK is less than Kain's then you are an idiot. Ares has TKed hundreds of Barbarian warriors into the air, popping their heads and whatnot.

2. Never said he didn't. But those vids did not show that.

3. Are you an idiot? Wanna know the difference? Kratos can actually travel through time, as seen when transporting the Titans to Mount Olympus. He has taken the power of the Sisters of Fate, did you even play the second game? Because for most of the game, that was Kratos' goal.

4. Let me try to explain this to you. Kratos would still have the strength of his legs. Which he can use to run, thus building motion. The TK around Kratos' neck would be broken because Kratos' legs would be able to move him through it. Try grabbing a grown man much stronger than you in his arms and legs by the neck(JUST the neck) and restrain him from moving. It's not going to work. And if you really think that for some reason Kratos' neck would be weaker than the rest of his body, lol.

5. Kratos is by far the strongest in this thread and if he fights Kain while Kain does not have the Reaver...Lol.

1. How do you even know thats TK, altho that was not my point, my point was that once Kraots is grabbed with TK hes helpless as a child

3. When using another source to help him. And no, through the game it was Kratos' goal to reach the sisters and change his fate, not physically take their powers and he never succeeds in that.

4. And hes going to build motion while floating in the air? and his neck is weaker, you think muscles in your neck can give off teh same strength as your arms or legs? stupidity....

5. hes not going to fight Kain, hes not going to get anywhere near Dante as Kain as they fight because their either too fast or teleporting miles away from him, he has no chance in this battle....

jz6owc_SmDk&feature=related@1:24-26-Ares' TK

8XNFwiDG5MM&feature=channel_page @0:38-Ares' TK

Kain hits Kratos, Kratos' soul is in The Reaver, Kratos is no more.

BT I'll answer your post with my usual snide and condescending remarks tomorrow, but I am not answering Gumachi's. If he in such friggin denial as to say that was not real lightning he can go **** himself.

Fu_ck you too, ******. It's not real lighting, and i'm not admitting it lol.

Originally posted by Gumachi
Fu_ck you too, ******. It's not real lighting, and i'm not admitting it lol. Sir, did you just call me a n!gger?

What is your basis for claiming the lightning isn't real? Other than sheer stupidity I mean?

No. How can it be real? The only "real" lighting would probably be from Poseidon's Rage. It didn't seem like anything in the sky...or did it?

Originally posted by Gumachi
No. How can it be real? The only "real" lighting would probably be from Poseidon's Rage. It didn't seem like anything in the sky...or did it? Because it was fired by Zeus, who is the God of Lightning and rules the sky.

To say that Zeus cannot fire actual lightning is complete ignorance considering it is within his very nature to do so.

Yeahhhh, okayyyyyy. I thought he was the Thunder God? Well, both acted on lighting to begin with. Okayyyy, but that's me. But, yeahhhhh.

Originally posted by Gumachi
Yeahhhh, okayyyyyy. I thought he was the Thunder God? Well, both acted on lighting to begin with. Okayyyy, but that's me. But, yeahhhhh. Yes, because his powers clearly revolve around using sound waves in battle. Your basis for it not being real lightning is shoddy at best.

Both acted on lightning? What are you talking about?

You're not a very good troll.

Okayyyy, then.

Nevermind.

I wasn't trying to be one

InHjJ3cj0T8&feature=PlayList&p=9BAB1AA6EEAEC4C6&index=33&fmt=18 If you look closely(2nd bullet)Dante catches the bullet with his teeth.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Yes, because his powers clearly revolve around using sound waves in battle. Your basis for it not being real lightning is shoddy at best.

Both acted on lightning? What are you talking about?

You're not a very good troll.
quick question. i get everything your saying, but it extremely angers me the way gumachi posts back, acting as if he doesnt get it, and sentences like "The only "real" lighting would probably be from Poseidon's Rage" make me even madder because 1. he completely ignored your question, and 2. this sentence is no where near fact becuase he is just saying something that hes not proving. It even suprises me ive gone this far without getting an official warning for flaming/bashing. Do you think he gets what your saying but is blatantly ignoring it or do you think he actually doesnt get it? And do his replies anger/annoy you? Becuase the only thing that satisfies me from you two arguing is the fact that you can prove him wrong in a simple way that he has no other choice to concede, so that being said if someone stupid was to argue against him and was not smart enough to point out his obvious flaws would be one arguement i couldnt watch.

and the zues using sound waves in battle joke was pretty funny lol.

It's not like I wasn't the only person to say it wasn't real lighting. k1Lla441, if you have something to say to me--don't complain to TGE--say it to me, upfront. Please, don't criticize me.

Everything ive said to him i try to explain to you every single time i argue against you; i even get to the point where i have to italicize and cap all my letters just to get a point accross.

But what makes me mad is you have no bases as to why its not "real lighting". If you even had a small, crappy arguement that could easily be negated i wouldnt care, but you have not even one theory as to why its not lighting, you simply say that its not. Its not the fact that you say it wasnt lightning, its the fact that you have no basis for this assumption.

Well, my point was, if he could react to real lighting, why couldn't he react to anything else? Since I told you to be upfront, I admit his reactions arn't shitty. But still, why couldn't he react to the pillar?

I dont know, pis, he wasnt aware of it, he leg hurt, many things could have happened but actually see how good a category is of a certain fighter we have to take there best feat and use that. I dont care if he couldnt dodge a little girls slap, he still blocked lightning.

Well, if you think about it, he wouldn't be aware of the lighting. When Ares threw that pillar, he was wide in the open. Both has react on lighting, and if you give Dante the Royal Guard, he could do the same. Well, Dante caught a bullet with his teeth See, I wonder if he could react to "actual" lighting that comes from the sky(it's kinda hard to explain what I mean when I say actual, so don't get pissy).

NIM7ndyA7bM

xFkpdpIHhtU @4:26/5:06(how can he survive all of that btw lol?)Now, Zeus' bolts came faster than the pillar did.

lightning travels at 60 thousand miles per second, while a bullet travels around 1000 miles an hour. hmm, dantes bullet catching feat does match up to kratos' feat. definitely. Dante could catch 100 bullets with his teeth all at the same time, its still not as good as blocking lightning.

As I said, if you give him the RG he could block lighting. Besides, I don't really see a big deal when Kratos blocked the 'lighting storm'(not reflecting). I mean, he had no choice(And it "had" to happen. Kinda hard to explain what I mean).

Kratos never touches lightning outside of gameplay, not that I remember, please show me him doing it.

Jesus BT not you too.

This "gameplay" occurrence is unavoidable, this context makes it usable in debate.

And Gumachi, that pillar was thrown from miles away, and Kratos was pre-occupied with moving Pandora's Box, he didn't see it coming, literally. So please STFU.

Who gives a damn? Anyway, how do we know that the lighting Zeus was throwing was going at 60,000 miles per second? If it's that fast, how can it be seen by the human eye(sorry if I sound stupid)?

NIM7ndyA7bM I don't seem him being busy with shit. Anyway, what does him blocking lighting prove?

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Jesus BT not you too.

This "gameplay" occurrence is unavoidable, this context makes it usable in debate.

And Gumachi, that pillar was thrown from miles away, and Kratos was pre-occupied with moving Pandora's Box, he didn't see it coming, literally. So please STFU.

no it puts it under the bar of "gameplay", its influenced by gameplay, influenced by what players can do, what they cant etc, just because Zeus shoots a lightning bolt and the player can choose to reflect it does not even make it canon, infact Ive played that, I dont think you actually "have" to fire lightning bolts back at him if your talking about when you use the fleece to project back his lightning. Zeus lives in a fantasy universe, one that has shown in cinematics that Zeus can throw slower balls of lightning or blasts rather than actual bolts the way they are from the sky.

You can assume just because Zeus is the lightning God and he throws a stormy bolt that its immedialtey going as quick as real natural lightning from the sky.

Originally posted by Gumachi
Who gives a damn? Anyway, how do we know that the lighting Zeus was throwing was going at 60,000 miles per second? If it's that fast, how can it be seen by the human eye(sorry if I sound stupid)?

NIM7ndyA7bM I don't seem him being busy with shit. Anyway, what does him blocking lighting prove? First of all, it is 60,000 meters per second, not miles. Second of all, we have actually seen IRL lightning with the human eye.

If you don't, you are:

A. In denial.

B. An idiot.

A or B. Your choice.

Blocking lightning prove? It proves that Kain won't come near hitting him.

Originally posted by Burning thought
no it puts it under the bar of "gameplay", its influenced by gameplay, influenced by what players can do, what they cant etc, just because Zeus shoots a lightning bolt and the player can choose to reflect it does not even make it canon, infact Ive played that, I dont think you actually "have" to fire lightning bolts back at him if your talking about when you use the fleece to project back his lightning. Zeus lives in a fantasy universe, one that has shown in cinematics that Zeus can throw slower balls of lightning or blasts rather than actual bolts the way they are from the sky.

You can assume just because Zeus is the lightning God and he throws a stormy bolt that its immedialtey going as quick as real natural lightning from the sky. It isn't optional. To complete the battle, it has to happen. You do not choose to fire back at him, you have to, and it is blocking. Zeus can throw balls of lightning that are clearly not bolts, those were bolts of lightning.

Why should we assume it is not? So Kain can be faster? Which he has never proven to be by the way.

Sure assuming

A: there was an actual canon feat of him blocking lightning that is without a doubt under the same laws of physics as real lightning and is real lightning

B: Kain actually had tactics of walking up to characters and swinging a sword and not slowing them in time or slowing them in other ways or stoppng them moving all together.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
It isn't optional. To complete the battle, it has to happen. You do not choose to fire back at him, you have to, and it is blocking. Zeus can throw balls of lightning that are clearly not bolts, those were bolts of lightning.

Why should we assume it is not? So Kain can be faster? Which he has never proven to be by the way.

No it doesnt.....you may have done it that way but tossing back lightning at Zeus is optional, its one of his attacks, blocking it with the fleece is an option the player can choose abliet the best option but still an option. You could just keep rolling to "dodge" the lightning.

We shouldnt assume anything tbh. The lightning Zeus fires is not the same as lightning from the sky, moving at incredible speeds. Stop reaching....

Originally posted by Burning thought
1. How do you even know thats TK, altho that was not my point, my point was that once Kraots is grabbed with TK hes helpless as a child

3. When using another source to help him. And no, through the game it was Kratos' goal to reach the sisters and change his fate, not physically take their powers and he never succeeds in that.

4. And hes going to build motion while floating in the air? and his neck is weaker, you think muscles in your neck can give off teh same strength as your arms or legs? stupidity....

5. hes not going to fight Kain, hes not going to get anywhere near Dante as Kain as they fight because their either too fast or teleporting miles away from him, he has no chance in this battle.... 1. How do I know that it is TK? I won't even dignify that question with a response. Once he is grabbed with TK he is helpless as a child? To actually lift him he would have to stop him, why would Kratos be standing still so Kain can grab him?

3. Another source? The Loom Chamber? Which he did not use to bring the Titans to Olympus? Nigga please.

4. Why assume he won't already be moving? Considering Kratos is primarily a melee fighter, he will be actively trying to close the distance. His neck is weaker overall, but for you to think it would not retain superhuman strength proportional to the rest of his body is complete stupidity, 1/10th of Kratos' strength feats would be sufficient to break Kain's TK, and by the way, the neck is far stronger than you think.

5. Kain too fast? For you to even compare Dante and Kain's speed like they are comparable at all is laughable. Kain is SLOOOOOOOW, slower than Kratos as the New Trailer clearly shows. Then again I am talking to the same guy who thought Kain impaling Moebius to a rock was greater speed than what Loz displayed lol. Teleporting miles away? Is Kain running away now?

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. How do I know that it is TK? I won't even dignify that question with a response. Once he is grabbed with TK he is helpless as a child? To actually lift him he would have to stop him, why would Kratos be standing still so Kain can grab him?

3. Another source? The Loom Chamber? Which he did not use to bring the Titans to Olympus? Nigga please.

4. Why assume he won't already be moving? Considering Kratos is primarily a melee fighter, he will be actively trying to close the distance. His neck is weaker overall, but for you to think it would not retain superhuman strength proportional to the rest of his body is complete stupidity, 1/10th of Kratos' strength feats would be sufficient to break Kain's TK, and by the way, the neck is far stronger than you think.

5. Kain too fast? For you to even compare Dante and Kain's speed like they are comparable at all is laughable. Kain is SLOOOOOOOW, slower than Kratos as the New Trailer clearly shows. Then again I am talking to the same guy who thought Kain impaling Moebius to a rock was greater speed than what Loz displayed lol. Teleporting miles away? Is Kain running away now?

1. So you dont know its TK...kool...and why would Kratos start off the match running.....not that it makes a diffrence on kain grabbing Kratos by the neck...

3. Ofcourse he used it to move the Titans, he changed his fate using the threads, do you think Kratos was using the threads and the loom chamber for a april fools joke or something and he had all these amazing time powers?

4. As I said, grab Kratos by the neck and he is doomed, he woud not be able to do anything at all, and running will not help him either.

5. The trailor shows nothing of the sort, and Dante will be constantly closing gaps, Kain will be eliminating every gap within an instant using teleportation....so okie, I was foolish at thking Dante is equel to Kains movement. Running away....no hes just taking the best options he can for eliminating both of these goofs as quickly as possible, he could just Repel shield and then take them out with a slash each from the reaver while their slowed in time.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
First of all, it is 60,000 meters per second, not miles. Second of all, we have actually seen IRL lightning with the human eye.

If you don't, you are:

A. In denial.

B. An idiot.

A or B. Your choice.

Blocking lightning prove? It proves that Kain won't come near hitting him.

What does blocking lighting, have to do with Kain hitting him? He could get hit by a slow Barbarian hammer, also. Kratos isn't all that fast, atleast as you make it seem(if he's fast at all).

BT, if Kain slows time, Dante will disable it with QS, not only that, but Dante is resisted to soul-sucking.

Originally posted by Gumachi
What does blocking lighting, have to do with Kain hitting him? He could get hit by a slow Barbarian hammer, also. Kratos isn't all that fast, atleast as you make it seem(if he's fast at all).

BT, if Kain slows time, Dante will disable it with QS, not only that, but Dante is resisted to soul-sucking.
It has to do with everything, unless kains movement is faster than lightning, then it will be blocked and repelled by the golden fleece.Originally posted by Burning thought
1. So you dont know its TK...kool...and why would Kratos start off the match running.....not that it makes a diffrence on kain grabbing Kratos by the neck...

3. Ofcourse he used it to move the Titans, he changed his fate using the threads, do you think Kratos was using the threads and the loom chamber for a april fools joke or something and he had all these amazing time powers?

4. As I said, grab Kratos by the neck and he is doomed, he woud not be able to do anything at all, and running will not help him either.

5. The trailor shows nothing of the sort, and Dante will be constantly closing gaps, Kain will be eliminating every gap within an instant using teleportation....so okie, I was foolish at thking Dante is equel to Kains movement. Running away....no hes just taking the best options he can for eliminating both of these goofs as quickly as possible, he could just Repel shield and then take them out with a slash each from the reaver while their slowed in time.

like jaxx said, his tk is not nearly strong enough to stop a moving kratos. not even close.

Originally posted by k1Lla441
It has to do with everything, unless kains movement is faster than lightning, then it will be blocked and repelled by the golden fleece.

like jaxx said, his tk is not nearly strong enough to stop a moving kratos. not even close.

Yeah, right. So your saying just because he reacted he automatcially is fast? Kratos is not all that fast, it would be easy to hit him(if he's fast at all). He shure moved pretty slow when Ares was about to hit him. If i'm not mistaken; He is wearing Hermes' boots(if he is, he must not be that fast).

Originally posted by Gumachi
What does blocking lighting, have to do with Kain hitting him? He could get hit by a slow Barbarian hammer, also. Kratos isn't all that fast, atleast as you make it seem(if he's fast at all).

BT, if Kain slows time, Dante will disable it with QS, not only that, but Dante is resisted to soul-sucking.

Their just reaching, their taking one gameplay happening and stringing together real life physicis on bolts from a fictional character who has shown to be able to make slower bolts in the first place, furthermore the one in the gameplay is not only optional but also not even a real beam of thunder from the real world, its just like an orb of thunder....so their beating a dead horse and that much I can say with certainty because Ive played it.

Youve also got to take into account the rest of the ENTIRE f*cking game, I mean holy sh*t Kratos doesnt beam around the place at lighting speeds and he doesnt move his arms in a flash grabbing arrows and energy left and right...theres dozens and dozens of scripted sequences when Kratos fights the bosses where its obvious hes not moving at lightning speed, he moves no quicker than most normal men if not with perhaps more stamina but still...not much quicker than a man.

Which is why hes useless in this fight

Dante cant disable it if hes used his power/energy for DT earlier on or if hes already frozen. Kain wont suck Dantes soul, he will rip it out which is diffrent and what are you talking about? if you mean the little orb, the orb gives him tonnes of extra power he wouldnt normally have.


Originally posted by k1Lla441
It has to do with everything, unless kains movement is faster than lightning, then it will be blocked and repelled by the golden fleece.

like jaxx said, his tk is not nearly strong enough to stop a moving kratos. not even close.

The Golden fleece has only blocked and repelled physical powers furthermore, as I said kain has a vast array of time slowing powers.

How could you possibly know the weight, mass etc of Kratos' neck when he is running?

All Kain would have to do is stop him moving, he has a vast number of spells for that, and Kratos is not quick in the least so why you claim Kain could never stop him just beacuse hes moving is ridiculous. One TK push on Kratos' foot and he will trick over and be easy game for another TK grab.

Kain can TK the BoO out of Kratos' hand, his strength can't stop the weapon from being TKed.

Now, don't get me wrong, Kratos is cute, but he was nonething until Ares gave him power, and he still wasn't nonething because Ares stripped his ass of his power, now he became stripped again by Zeus(and was stupid enough to put his power into the blade)he then became Gaia's lackey b!tch. Eventually the Titans will get tired of healing Kratos, that's when Kain will strip his ass down, and bleed him dry, or still his soul Oh, Kain can freeze Kratos. Probably could mind-control him too.

@BT: He won't. Soon as he is lifted up, he can DT. No I am not talking about a orb. True, but that would probably leave his Devil Form, and i'm shure he (possibly) can resist.

And even Persephone managed to knock down Kratos with her TK, and she's featless(her TK isn't even big).

IMO, the only reason Kratos gets credit is because of his super-strength, him being the son of Zeus, and him killing weak Greek Gods(who arn't the same in the myths, and if I recall correctly, they were the weakest). Odin would destroy Zeus(Norse Gods>Greek Gods?).

Originally posted by Gumachi

Now, don't get me wrong, Kratos is cute, but he was nonething until Ares gave him power, and he still wasn't nonething because Ares stripped his ass of his power, now he became stripped again by Zeus(and was stupid enough to put his power into the blade)he then became Gaia's lackey b!tch. Eventually the Titans will get tired of healing Kratos, that's when Kain will strip his ass down, and bleed him dry, or still his soul Oh, Kain can freeze Kratos. Probably could mind-control him too.

Kratos was never 'stripped' of anything until GoWII (what Ares did was re-kill Kratos' family after stripping him of the Blades of Chaos), where like the case in CoO, he did it himself in the first place. Kratos by nature is a demigod, so at the very least his physical skills are also, by nature, his own, if just not realized prior to becoming Ares' ward. If the end of GoWII says anything, it's that he's the one with the Titans at the reins given that he has that which defeated them in the first place, among other things. Shoe-horning plot-based character flaws for the sake of weakening him doesn't work like you think it would when in the long run, the character in subject is in a league of his own in comparison to his teammate. Reason enough to nerf him in the first place I suppose, but that's besides both your point and mine.

Also, aside from the fact that the Kratos that Persephone TK'd was one that relinquished every ounce of power he had prior to the scene, Persephone showed little effort in performing it beyond moving her hand.

Play God of War, Ares stripped him to nonething, he took all his magic away (and even The Blades of Chaos). Kratos had to get The Blade of The Gods. Ares gave him power, just because he is the son of Zeus, that doesn't mean he has extrodinary abilities, Ares said all his strength came from him. If he was already a Demigod, what point would it be to give him power? The rest--I don't know WTF your talking about lol. Canoncially, he wasn't the son of Zeus. If it wasn't for Athena giving Kratos her Blades, most likely, he wouldn't have anything(unless he would have had a sword created when he became a God).

Hpaxz3kVbqw&feature=related Ares stripped him(and I find it odd that Ares can take God-given abilities from Kratos).


The fact is she knocked him down, and her TK isn't big.

Lack of usable magic meant more to PIS than actual inability to use it. If Ares stripped him completely of his powers, chances are he'd've been brought back human sized. Kratos is decsribed as being "trained by a God" suggesting a little more to things than just being given his physical skills, aside from the fact that Kratos was never even AWARE of being a Demigod until God of War II. Him not being the son of Zeus canonically is an outright lie, unless I'm missing something to what you said. I also really doubt Kratos as a God would've had problems with weapons seeing as Ares was capable of materializing different ones throughout the entire fight with Kratos.

That's only one fact to a string of facts that brought about the scene. There would be little need in the first place to use extensive TK on a Kratos that lost all his powers beforehand.

I didn't mean "strip" him in that term. But still, you see my point. Well, like I said, canoncially, he wasn't the son of Zeus, until the end of God of War II. Bascially that was just a video in God of War. He was just a normal human...=\

No, what's spoken canonically in the sequels applies directly to its predecessor unless said otherwise by officials. Kratos being Zeus' son is no different. It had been at least potentially established even with GoWI. The only thing changed is HOW Kratos discovered he was the son of Zeus. Canonically, it just wasn't REVEALED that Kratos was Zeus' son until GoW2, in the same sence with Vader/Leia and Luke in Star Wars, to name one example.

So it was stated official? Because it was just a video in GOWI. And aparently they chose the 'Zeus' Son' route.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The Golden fleece has only blocked and repelled physical powers furthermore, as I said kain has a vast array of time slowing powers.

How could you possibly know the weight, mass etc of Kratos' neck when he is running?

All Kain would have to do is stop him moving, he has a vast number of spells for that, and Kratos is not quick in the least so why you claim Kain could never stop him just beacuse hes moving is ridiculous. One TK push on Kratos' foot and he will trick over and be easy game for another TK grab.

I never said that it did, gumachi was talking about a hammer, which was what i was referring to.

Its not necassarily weight, its strength. Trying to "choke" or "stop" something with enough strength to do what kratos has done is ridiculous, especially from someone many, many times weaker than him.

Like dj said, tk is an invisible force, something that can be broken, its not impenetrable. Its almost like invisible hands that kratos cant see or touch, but it still applies force to him. So if this force is no where near enough of an amount of force to stop kratos, he could easily run right through it. I could sit there and hide around a corner, and if kratos comes running around and i stick my foot out he'll run right through my foot, it not even phasing him. I cant compare my strength to kains tk, but it would be the same thing, kratos strength plus the momentum of him moving would be like trying to stop a tank, except stonger and faster.

I never said kratos was quick, stop putting words in my mouth. Im simply saying that if kratos were jogging, that would be enough force to get past kains tk.

Your 2nd statement: Are you saying that Kain is weak?

Originally posted by k1Lla441
I never said that it did, gumachi was talking about a hammer, which was what i was referring to.

Its not necassarily weight, its strength. Trying to "choke" or "stop" something with enough strength to do what kratos has done is ridiculous, especially from someone many, many times weaker than him.

Like dj said, tk is an invisible force, something that can be broken, its not impenetrable. Its almost like invisible hands that kratos cant see or touch, but it still applies force to him. So if this force is no where near enough of an amount of force to stop kratos, he could easily run right through it. I could sit there and hide around a corner, and if kratos comes running around and i stick my foot out he'll run right through my foot, it not even phasing him. I cant compare my strength to kains tk, but it would be the same thing, kratos strength plus the momentum of him moving would be like trying to stop a tank, except stonger and faster.

I never said kratos was quick, stop putting words in my mouth. Im simply saying that if kratos were jogging, that would be enough force to get past kains tk.

Kratos has mostly strength feats with his arms and hands, very few are with his legs and none are with his neck, head, and its logical comapred ot real life that his strength would be next to no resistance to TK at his neck, so what he has shown is useless unless you find me a vid of him breaking rocks and monsters with his throat. Kain lifting Kratos in the air from the beginning which is fair game is a fine strategy, him being strong in his arms gives him no protection, the only way running will help him is if he was a very fast character which unfortunaltey for him, he is not.

Its an invisible force and an almost inangible force, its just mental energy, sure it makes physical effect but you cant grab it with your hands or punch your way out of it, its as simple as that. If Kain grabs Kratos by the neck, toe, head etc hes stuffed because he can do nothing...just wiggle like a worm on the end of a rod, he cant bring any strength, momentum to the table to break such a hold.

No its not lol, and no its not faster either, a modern tank can go over 60 mph and weighs 60+ tonnes, Kratos has neither values, all he has is higher strength shown by feats in his arms and legs, and tbh his more impressive strength feats were when he had half of his godly powers before Zeus had him drain them into BoO.

No it wouldnt, how would it? he would have no momentum when jogging at all so now your being ridiculous, I think your trying to reach out and give Kratos high strength in places hes never shown nor would likely have, infact the heavier you are up top like Kratos' build the easier it is to trip, Kratos would fall like a rock if he was running and then be dragged into the air like a toy with Kains TK, where he can do nothing.

If Kain TKs Kratos, wouldn't that mean he STILL can TK him? What I mean is, Kratos won't just "break" TK instantly. So, possibly, Kain still has some time to do whatever. Because he isn't going to instantly break TK as soon as he is grabbed.

What they mean is that Kain wont be able to Tk kratos because Kratos is stronger than what Kain can TK, they dont realise that his strength is worthless if he is in the air, or on certain vulerable parts of his body where he could not excert any strength to get rid of any TK.

That's why I said he could TK the BoO out of his hands. I thought he could only TK his body? Why didn't he just "break" Ares' TK? It's not like it was 1000s of times better.

Originally posted by Burning thought
What they mean is that Kain wont be able to Tk kratos because Kratos is stronger than what Kain can TK, they dont realise that his strength is worthless if he is in the air, or on certain vulerable parts of his body where he could not excert any strength to get rid of any TK. Kain only tk the mobius who was a frail old man

Originally posted by Gumachi
That's why I said he could TK the BoO out of his hands. I thought he could only TK his body? Why didn't he just "break" Ares' TK? It's not like it was 1000s of times better. like anyone from dmc had any better TK

Originally posted by Phanteros
Kain only tk the mobius who was a frail old man

Who has the same amout of strength feats from his neck as Kratos, zero. Much like any being

Originally posted by Phanteros
like anyone from dmc had any better TK

Never said anyone did have better TK.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kratos has mostly strength feats with his arms and hands, very few are with his legs and none are with his neck, head, and its logical comapred ot real life that his strength would be next to no resistance to TK at his neck, so what he has shown is useless unless you find me a vid of him breaking rocks and monsters with his throat. Kain lifting Kratos in the air from the beginning which is fair game is a fine strategy, him being strong in his arms gives him no protection, the only way running will help him is if he was a very fast character which unfortunaltey for him, he is not.

Its an invisible force and an almost inangible force, its just mental energy, sure it makes physical effect but you cant grab it with your hands or punch your way out of it, its as simple as that. If Kain grabs Kratos by the neck, toe, head etc hes stuffed because he can do nothing...just wiggle like a worm on the end of a rod, he cant bring any strength, momentum to the table to break such a hold.

No its not lol, and no its not faster either, a modern tank can go over 60 mph and weighs 60+ tonnes, Kratos has neither values, all he has is higher strength shown by feats in his arms and legs, and tbh his more impressive strength feats were when he had half of his godly powers before Zeus had him drain them into BoO.

No it wouldnt, how would it? he would have no momentum when jogging at all so now your being ridiculous, I think your trying to reach out and give Kratos high strength in places hes never shown nor would likely have, infact the heavier you are up top like Kratos' build the easier it is to trip, Kratos would fall like a rock if he was running and then be dragged into the air like a toy with Kains TK, where he can do nothing.

Most of kratos' feats are with his arms legs, lets get that straight now. Most of the time he is pushing something from his upper body using his arms and pushing of something with his legs.

I read what you said a couple posts ago, i never said that kain wont be able to tk kratos, just that his tk wont do much against his neck since he can still move, and its not like kratos' neck is just as strong as some old mans, i dont recall kratos busting something with his back, head, chest, or finger, but it would be silly to assume those as just as strong as a normal old man, kratos is already a demigod and to assume his neck is already that weak is absurd.

Now, what do you think would happen if kain tked kratos? he will fling him in the air and kill him? Its almost as if invisible hands are trying to strangle him, its not like it stops the rest of his body. kratos could just use the BoO and hit him a couple of times, which would let go of the tk. Or he could just use typhons bane to make him stop, which would give kratos enough time to get up to a sprint, and a full moving kratos, even when hit/grabbed at the neck, will not stop him. By the way, what is the best strength feat kain shows with his tk?

And lol @ kain taking the BoO from kratos, now THAT sir is something i know for a fact he cant do.

If Kratos is TKed, he will be paralyzed. Kain could just probably freeze Kratos. And why would Kratos just run at Kain? Couldn't Kain just teleport behind him?

he will not be paralyzed, like dj said tk has its amount of force, and its not enough to stop kratos. Kain teleporting behind kratos is suicide, in a milisecond he could turn around and decapitate him.

Originally posted by k1Lla441
Most of kratos' feats are with his arms legs, lets get that straight now. Most of the time he is pushing something from his upper body using his arms and pushing of something with his legs.

I read what you said a couple posts ago, i never said that kain wont be able to tk kratos, just that his tk wont do much against his neck since he can still move, and its not like kratos' neck is just as strong as some old mans, i dont recall kratos busting something with his back, head, chest, or finger, but it would be silly to assume those as just as strong as a normal old man, kratos is already a demigod and to assume his neck is already that weak is absurd.

Now, what do you think would happen if kain tked kratos? he will fling him in the air and kill him? Its almost as if invisible hands are trying to strangle him, its not like it stops the rest of his body. kratos could just use the BoO and hit him a couple of times, which would let go of the tk. Or he could just use typhons bane to make him stop, which would give kratos enough time to get up to a sprint, and a full moving kratos, even when hit/grabbed at the neck, will not stop him. By the way, what is the best strength feat kain shows with his tk?

And lol @ kain taking the BoO from kratos, now THAT sir is something i know for a fact he cant do.

Which is why grabbing Kratos my somewhere that does not include his arms, or legs is what Kain will do, like his neck, his head, etc, he cant do anything then.

No he cant, how cna Kratos sitll move when being held in the air by his neck? the most he could possibly get is a wiggle, which is worthless, he wont be able to build momentum or excert strength...so hes useless. His neck would have no more feats than Moebius', its simple fact you cant excert strength in your neck especially not for breaking any TK thats for sure.

No he would just hold him up there until Dante is dead, and to answer the rest TK Shackles could bond kratos arms or items, infact Kain could steal all the items that Kratos was not holding at the time and toss them around the battlefield. Its not like Kratos is going to be able to do much at all with Kain and Dante ending up miles away from him. Kains best TK strength feat is prob breaking a few weak rocks and teleporting knights in full armour with ease.

How so? what possible diffrence could Kratos running have on the weight and mass of his neck? you assume to much if you think Kratos will have full strength from all the feats he has shown just because hes running quickly.



Originally posted by k1Lla441
he will not be paralyzed, like dj said tk has its amount of force, and its not enough to stop kratos. Kain teleporting behind kratos is suicide, in a milisecond he could turn around and decapitate him.

Ofcourse it is, when hes floating in the air and held by his throat, or what if Kain puts Kratos' arms in a low strength position like bent behind his back where he can excert any strength? he will be hopeless.

Kratos is not that quick, certainly not as quick as Kain.

Originally posted by k1Lla441
he will not be paralyzed, like dj said tk has its amount of force, and its not enough to stop kratos. Kain teleporting behind kratos is suicide, in a milisecond he could turn around and decapitate him.


Okay, how can he TK him, but he CAN'T be paralyzed? Bullshit, he never has done it, nor will he ever do that.

sigh.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
kratos kills any form of kain including scion
dante kills ny form of kain including scion

whats so hard about this?

Maybe K.O.?

^not by kain surely

Heh, lol. I mean, wouldn't he reform? Or atleast would be hard to K.O. him(probably).

Canoncially/realistically they wouldn't beat able to be him...I think.

canonically and realistically, either one can destroy kain. kain cant reform if hes dead, if your referring to the mist thing.

Originally posted by Gumachi
Canoncially/realistically they wouldn't beat able to be him...I think. you have low self esteem

Originally posted by leonheartmm
canonically and realistically, either one can destroy kain. kain cant reform if hes dead, if your referring to the mist thing.

No. And because of his "fate" he can't die or whatever(and Raz's wraith blade).

Plot device invincibility is off, remember Gumachi?

Oh...yeah.

Originally posted by Gumachi
No. And because of his "fate" he can't die or whatever(and Raz's wraith blade).


and? because of his FATE solid snake cant die in the duration of mgs1, does it go to reason then that sephiroth cant kill mgs1 snake???? plot devices which are true in the media UNIVERSE have no place in vs discussions. SPECIALLY seeing that the entire cycle of death is controlled by a giant octopus on a single planet.

"Giant octopus" Lol.

He cannot be an Octopus, they only have 8 tentacles hence the "Oct" wheras the EG has thousands.

^sigh a squid then

Squid, octopus, either way he's pathetic

I wouldnt call being able to wipe out the whole GOW and DMC universe with ease while not being damaged at all, touched, attacked or even seen pathetic....but w/e

He can't be seen, but yet, he didn't wipe out Kain, before being purified. What are tentacles going to do ?, especially to a Titan.

Originally posted by Gumachi
He can't be seen, but yet, he didn't wipe out Kain, before being purified. What are tentacles going to do ?, especially to a Titan.

No because Kain is greater.......Kain has the perfect weapons to defeat the EG, besides Kain would do the same only faster.

Tentacles the size of the Elder Gods? the Elder God who is bigger than all of the titans put together would completly and utterly destroy them.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No because Kain is greater.......Kain has the perfect weapons to defeat the EG, besides Kain would do the same only faster.

Tentacles the size of the Elder Gods? the Elder God who is bigger than all of the titans put together would completly and utterly destroy them. you mean the ones that touch the sky and hold up a continent?

Indeed, because the Elder God would BE that continent

Originally posted by Phanteros
you mean the ones that touch the sky and hold up a continent?

clouds=/= sky

and they dont hold up a continent

and even if they did, its got nuthing on dante/kratos let alone the entire worlds of said characters.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No because Kain is greater.......Kain has the perfect weapons to defeat the EG, besides Kain would do the same only faster.

Tentacles the size of the Elder Gods? the Elder God who is bigger than all of the titans put together would completly and utterly destroy them.

Faster to who? Dante? Nah. Kratos? It won't end so quickly...I think.

Elder God is nonething but tentacles and eyes. But thanks for proving my point.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Indeed, because the Elder God would BE that continent

Which would be part of the planet that's been held up by just one Titan.

Originally posted by Gumachi
Faster to who? Dante? Nah. Kratos? It won't end so quickly...I think.

Elder God is nonething but tentacles and eyes. But thanks for proving my point.

What i meant was that Kain will destroy the GOW and DMC universes quicker than the Elder God would.

So your point was that the Elder God would destroy all the Titans? hmm.....well curious, you should make your points clearer next time, i did not gather that.

Originally posted by First_Tsurugi06
Which would be part of the planet that's been held up by just one Titan.

The planet is not held up by Atlas in God of War

Maybe in real mythology but in GOW? no....

Originally posted by Burning thought
What i meant was that Kain will destroy the GOW and DMC universes quicker than the Elder God would.

So your point was that the Elder God would destroy all the Titans? hmm.....well curious, you should make your points clearer next time, i did not gather that.



The planet is not held up by Atlas in God of War

Maybe in real mythology but in GOW? no....

Bullshit 1 Titan could crush him. Even if they can't kill him, they still could beat his ass(then again, Hades could take his soul).

No, how pathetic EG is.

ln-mq59QfaM&feature=PlayList&p=0BA0123A6E2DDEB2&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=18

He is holding up the planet(in greek myth it was the sky/heavens).

Originally posted by Burning thought
What i meant was that Kain will destroy the GOW and DMC universes quicker than the Elder God would.

So your point was that the Elder God would destroy all the Titans? hmm.....well curious, you should make your points clearer next time, i did not gather that.



The planet is not held up by Atlas in God of War

Maybe in real mythology but in GOW? no....

Aside from CoO's narration blatantly stating that Atlas was to hold the world on his shoulders, in actually mytholgy he holds up at what is essentially all BUT the earth.

How did they get him to hold up the skys in the myths?

Originally posted by First_Tsurugi06
Aside from CoO's narration blatantly stating that Atlas was to hold the world on his shoulders, in actually mytholgy he holds up at what is essentially all BUT the earth.

"was to" obvioulsy hes holding up the Earths crust, an unkown portion might I add, theres nothing showing or factually stating that he is holding the whole of the Earth and furthermore weve been shown the limit of his size and strength in the Titan vs Olmypian war and it was not planetary strength or even close. And ofcourse, the fact Atlas was standing in magma and lava and not floating in space or w/e....

Originally posted by Gumachi
Bullshit 1 Titan could crush him. Even if they can't kill him, they still could beat his ass(then again, Hades could take his soul).

No, how pathetic EG is.

ln-mq59QfaM&feature=PlayList&p=0BA0123A6E2DDEB2&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=18

He is holding up the planet(in greek myth it was the sky/heavens).

Ok ill come back when you want to debate, and thats not holding up any planet at all, its holding up an unkown portion of the crust....

BT, if you think he wasn't holding up the Earth, your stupid. If he's so-called holding up the earth's crust, then what will it look like if he's holding up the Earth?

Yeh right, hes holding up a planet while standing in lava, hes holding up a planet when all we can see is the roof of a mantle, he has the strength of planetary holding when hes been douched and pulled about by hades. Hes got the strength to hold the Earth when his slamming on the ground merely smashed up some of the soil....

The only ones who are truly thick in this thread are A: the ones who think Dante and Kratos win this and B: the ones who think Atlas actually lifts the Earth in GOW.......

Originally posted by Gumachi
If he's so-called holding up the earth's crust, then what will it look like if he's holding up the earth?

Lava has nonething to do with him holding up the Earth. Being "beat" has nonething to do with holding up the Earth, nor does falling in soil. We never even saw his strength in the Titan/Olympian war, besides, you left out the fact on how his soul was RIPPED OUT.

Originally posted by Burning thought
"was to" obvioulsy hes holding up the Earths crust, an unkown portion might I add, theres nothing showing or factually stating that he is holding the whole of the Earth and furthermore weve been shown the limit of his size and strength in the Titan vs Olmypian war and it was not planetary strength or even close. And ofcourse, the fact Atlas was standing in magma and lava and not floating in space or w/e....



Ok ill come back when you want to debate, and thats not holding up any planet at all, its holding up an unkown portion of the crust....

"Was to" in the past tense, not "was intended to". Atlas was standing at the top of what was left of the pillar that held up the earth (located in the underworld, not in magma), which Atlas was in the midst destroying. What was shown during the Titan war were just attacks directed at Hades only, and even then, everything he did was striking power in proportion to his size. Crust or not, that claim would only hold a grain of salt if there was some sort of explanation for it not being connected to the earth, of which there is none.

As far as being in space is concerned, well no offense but if you're gonna argue such a semblance real-world logic for an alternative Greek Mythological setting, where the "scape of the mortal world" was "forged" THROUGH the war, then you're wasting about as much of your own time as everyone in that Link vs Sephiroth thread wasted theirs.

Originally posted by First_Tsurugi06
"Was to" in the past tense, not "was intended to". Atlas was standing at the top of what was left of the pillar that held up the earth (located in the underworld, not in magma), which Atlas was in the midst destroying. What was shown during the Titan war were just attacks directed at Hades only, and even then, everything he did was striking power in proportion to his size. Crust or not, that claim would only hold a grain of salt if there was some sort of explanation for it not being connected to the earth, of which there is none.

As far as being in space is concerned, well no offense but if you're gonna argue such a semblance real-world logic for an alternative Greek Mythological setting, where the "scape of the mortal world" was "forged" THROUGH the war, then you're wasting about as much of your own time as everyone in that Link vs Sephiroth thread wasted theirs.

No, what was shown in the Titan were was a variety of attacks, a lot of them hitting the ground with enormous force, he was even overpowered by Hades chains. Whats the crust being connected to the Earth got to do with anything? you cant lift the Earth while standing on top of it....And prove he was atop a pillar in the underworld holding the world up please. Fact is, hes not shown much like all the Titans strength even close to holding up the planet, that was in mythology only, not GOW which is a diffrent ficiton.

No offence but if you think a represenation of holding up the world is Atlas sitting in lava (which is coincidently beneath the Earths crust, thus likely why hes holding up landmass, not the planet) despite other evidence being against him then it shows your not looking at the evidence at all.

Originally posted by Gumachi
Lava has nonething to do with him holding up the Earth. Being "beat" has nonething to do with holding up the Earth, nor does falling in soil. We never even saw his strength in the Titan/Olympian war, besides, you left out the fact on how his soul was RIPPED OUT.

ofcourse it does, you dont have lava in space, and you cant hold up the Earth unless you were in space or in anotherm mythological sense such as Sky, but he is not, hes in lava, where is lava? beneath the Earths CRUST not the Earth itself. Yes it does, hades who is featless along with most of the olmypions in the way of strength (although it can be gauged) actually pulled Atlas down before ripping out his soul. And he didnt fall in soil, he smashed it with his arms, the most it did was knock Hades chains off Chronos, so no hes not strong enough to lift the Earth.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No, what was shown in the Titan were was a variety of attacks, a lot of them hitting the ground with enormous force, he was even overpowered by Hades chains. Whats the crust being connected to the Earth got to do with anything? you cant lift the Earth while standing on top of it....And prove he was atop a pillar in the underworld holding the world up please. Fact is, hes not shown much like all the Titans strength even close to holding up the planet, that was in mythology only, not GOW which is a diffrent ficiton.

No offence but if you think a represenation of holding up the world is Atlas sitting in lava (which is coincidently beneath the Earths crust, thus likely why hes holding up landmass, not the planet) despite other evidence being against him then it shows your not looking at the evidence at all.



ofcourse it does, you dont have lava in space, and you cant hold up the Earth unless you were in space or in anotherm mythological sense such as Sky, but he is not, hes in lava, where is lava? beneath the Earths CRUST not the Earth itself. Yes it does, hades who is featless along with most of the olmypions in the way of strength (although it can be gauged) actually pulled Atlas down before ripping out his soul. And he didnt fall in soil, he smashed it with his arms, the most it did was knock Hades chains off Chronos, so no hes not strong enough to lift the Earth. hades is the god of the underworld. what you expected? and Kain didn't even fought the whole continent.

Originally posted by Burning thought
ofcourse it does, you dont have lava in space, and you cant hold up the Earth unless you were in space or in anotherm mythological sense such as Sky, but he is not, hes in lava, where is lava? beneath the Earths CRUST not the Earth itself. Yes it does, hades who is featless along with most of the olmypions in the way of strength (although it can be gauged) actually pulled Atlas down before ripping out his soul. And he didnt fall in soil, he smashed it with his arms, the most it did was knock Hades chains off Chronos, so no hes not strong enough to lift the Earth.

Space has nonething to do with this. Space might not even exist in God of W ar. Your not making sence, that has nonething to do with lifting up the Earth. The lifted up the Earth. End of story.

Originally posted by Gumachi
Space has nonething to do with this. Space might not even exist in God of W ar. Your not making sence, that has nonething to do with lifting up the Earth. The lifted up the Earth. End of story.

NO feats suggest it, only oppose it, as I said, ill come back when you have evidence since ime just wasting my time if I just sit here with you constantly stating without evidence bullshit when everything goes against you.

Originally posted by Phanteros
hades is the god of the underworld. what you expected? and Kain didn't even fought the whole continent.

Expected what? none of the Gods have near to Earth defeating feats, so I dont know what your getting at, by the conclusion that Atlas has Earth lifting strength, his slam on the ground should have smashed it wide open or cracked the whole world in two, or at least slaughtered Hades, not even Zeus has close to world lifting strength so assuming Hades does is absurd, he overpowered Atlas AND then ripped out his soul, therefore Atlas has no Earth lifting feats.

How would you know he didnt? and furthermore thats unimportant, he defeated the EG which consistsof that.

Originally posted by Burning thought
NO feats suggest it, only oppose it, as I said, ill come back when you have evidence since ime just wasting my time if I just sit here with you constantly stating without evidence bullshit when everything goes against you.

You mean the pathetic ass squid with no feats? Lifting up the Earth has nonething to do with feats. Get the **** outta here, man. Aparently you don't have evidence, either. Dumbass.

Knock it off with the namecalling. You've been told this before. Consider that a warning.

Originally posted by Burning thought
NO feats suggest it, only oppose it, as I said, ill come back when you have evidence since ime just wasting my time if I just sit here with you constantly stating without evidence bullshit when everything goes against you.



Expected what? none of the Gods have near to Earth defeating feats, so I dont know what your getting at, by the conclusion that Atlas has Earth lifting strength, his slam on the ground should have smashed it wide open or cracked the whole world in two, or at least slaughtered Hades, not even Zeus has close to world lifting strength so assuming Hades does is absurd, he overpowered Atlas AND then ripped out his soul, therefore Atlas has no Earth lifting feats.

How would you know he didnt? and furthermore thats unimportant, he defeated the EG which consistsof that. Hades is the god of the underworld master of souls he doesn't need strength to out brute Atlas. Skill sets we didn't even seen the whole fight. and judging by how everything is ravaged it must be a hell of a fight. Plus zeus threw a mountain on a giant. you know the level where you have to find prometeus. and before you say that there is no feat to suggest that the mountain was thrown by zeus, typhon, the name of the giant, was created by gaia to kill zeus in mythology and when Zeus returned from edgpt he gain strength to throw the mountain on him. the characters are are based on their mythic counter parts just eviler.

Dante and Kratos have something that Kain doesn't... Battle speed. Kratos may be slow as Kain but he has a faster battle speed with the blades. Dante is agile enough to avoid the reaver. Raziel is the ONLY reason why Kain was able to even get to the Elder God. without him Kain will be clueless as hell.

Originally posted by Phanteros
Hades is the god of the underworld master of souls he doesn't need strength to out brute Atlas. Skill sets we didn't even seen the whole fight. and judging by how everything is ravaged it must be a hell of a fight. Plus zeus threw a mountain on a giant. you know the level where you have to find prometeus. and before you say that there is no feat to suggest that the mountain was thrown by zeus, typhon, the name of the giant, was created by gaia to kill zeus in mythology and when Zeus returned from edgpt he gain strength to throw the mountain on him. the characters are are based on their mythic counter parts just eviler.

Yes he does, he defeated Atlas and pulled him to the ground, that requires strength, having power over souls means nothing with pulling someone to the ground otherwise Kain by your logic could physically overpower Kratos.

As i said, the world would be split in two, weve seen Atlas smash the ground in the battle, if he had the strength to lift the planet that ground would have shattered the world, it did hardly anything but cause a small wave of destruction.

Their based on but their a completly diffrent fiction altogether, you cannot take one feat and combine it with another, just because a being is based on something does not mean it gains all the respective powers of that element that its based on.

Originally posted by Phanteros
Dante and Kratos have something that Kain doesn't... Battle speed. Kratos may be slow as Kain but he has a faster battle speed with the blades. Dante is agile enough to avoid the reaver. Raziel is the ONLY reason why Kain was able to even get to the Elder God. without him Kain will be clueless as hell.

Not true if Kain has one of his time slowing powers up and Kains teleportation powers, especially the dimentional variant is more than enough.

No, the Balance guardians combined power that Raziel purified Kains sight with allowed him to see and hit Elder.

dante has time slowing powers as well as dimensional teleportation powers along with dimensional licing powers to cut physical things................

His time slowing powers are far more limited because they use the same energy that powers his DT, thus he can only choose and once hes run out of power he cant even DT or use those powers. Show me his dimentional teleportation and slicing powers......

same with kain, he cant keep up time slowing indefinately, and those limitations, like the limitaions on devil trigger are gameplay and in super mode, he can do it indefinately.

air trick- a move in dmc3 and 4 makes you teleport behind the enemy in whichever way you choose.

yamato cuts through dimensions with each slice aending a dimensional ditortion in the direction of the slice as well as two moves called slash dimensions. game database descrition - create a vortex of dimensional cuts.

i gave videos in quite afew other threads. i cud look them up if you really want them.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
same with kain, he cant keep up time slowing indefinately, and those limitations, like the limitaions on devil trigger are gameplay and in super mode, he can do it indefinately.

air trick- a move in dmc3 and 4 makes you teleport behind the enemy in whichever way you choose.

yamato cuts through dimensions with each slice aending a dimensional ditortion in the direction of the slice as well as two moves called slash dimensions. game database descrition - create a vortex of dimensional cuts.

i gave videos in quite afew other threads. i cud look them up if you really want them.

He could just start the time powers again so technically he can. Their not just gameplay, Dante states quite clearly in DMC 3 that he has a power supply on DT, regardless, you cant assume he can stay in DT for long because he has never done so.

Thats not dimentional teleport, thats just a typical teleporting move and its extremely short ranged and low scale.

News flash, Dante does not have Yamato

He stayed long when he fought Mundus. QS can't be limited, why would it be?

He also teleports in DMC4, if I remember correctly. Dante losing "devil power" when he QSs is (a) gameplay (mechanic). Chrono's Heart, Bangle of Time, or QS

BT: If the player uses a weapon, canoncially, then they're allowed to use it. Dante used Yamato, canoncially, so he can use it in debates(Terry already said something about this).

How would you know? you dont even have a cinematic of how long he took to fight Mundus in canon, we simply know that his DT was gone after the first fight. QS cant be limited? explain why.....its a power like all his others, and all his others have certain limts.

As I said, Dante has outlined that DT has power source when in DMC 3 he touches that soul orb and it gives him great power which is represented by infnite DT. But I dont even have to debate that point, the fact Dante has never stayed in his DT mode for a long duration means it is limited anyway.

QS lasts extremely short time as well.

Caonically Dante no longer has Yamato, the blade itself is passed on to Nero at the end of DMC 4, meaning Dante canonically does not have that weapon at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3-a4wGE2po&feature=related

3:34 slash dimension yamato


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vtkm3SSK38

dante yamato dimensional cut cutscene

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhwUWTRTlJQ&feature=related

the guy in the video uses air trick{teleportation } a bunch of times if you can see it, and no it isnt just a gameplay move as it is specifically a part of the development and mentioned in the in game database as teleportation.

It took his soul away, and that has nonething to do with infinite DT. Explain him staying in infinite DT when he fought Mundus. As said by Charlotte, that was too much power. Your still not proving how it isn't infinite(when it was).

I'd say it lasts for 10-15 secs(even though it is infinite). I mean, the game would be too easy if it was infinite(minus the Super Dante).

I allowed Dante to have all abilities. Saying that would be like saying Kain can't use his abilities in BO.

all teleportation is dimensional. turning intangible and appearing sumwhere else isnt true teleportation.

the orbs are gameplay, dante when enraged has remained in devil trigger canonically indefinately as seen in his fight against mundus in devil may cry 1. and he can also stay in that mode indefinately in super dante mode as well as indefinate time slow powers.

kain can not use it without pause repeatedly.

dante has all the weapons he had, whether he chooses to use them or not is upto him. amd yamato is stored in hammer space and appears whenever its called on, he doesnt have to have it on his body to use it.

Originally posted by Gumachi
It took his soul away, and that has nonething to do with infinite DT. Explain him staying in infinite DT when he fought Mundus.

I'd say it lasts for 10-15 secs(even though it is infinite). I mean, the game would be too easy if it was infinite(minus the Super Dante).

No it slowly drained his soul, in replace for power and obviously youve not played the level then because that gives you infnite DT. He didnt stay in infnite DT at all, his Mundus fight had an unkown time strapped onto it.

It doesnt last that long, prob 8 seconds at max.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3-a4wGE2po&feature=related

3:34 slash dimension yamato


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vtkm3SSK38

dante yamato dimensional cut cutscene

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhwUWTRTlJQ&feature=related

the guy in the video uses air trick{teleportation } a bunch of times if you can see it, and no it isnt just a gameplay move as it is specifically a part of the development and mentioned in the in game database as teleportation.

As I said, Dante does not even canonically have that weapon anymore.

That video does not actually prove anything, apart from the fact Dantes only teleport is probably slower than his usual speed....

all non intagibilit based teleportation is dimensional. to argue this is useless.

he has the weapon as it is always in hammer space and can come whenever called upon unless sum1 else worthy fforcibly keeps it in their posession. to argue that he doesnt have use of it in this fight, is to show obvious bias to weaken to opposition as no1 sane wud say that dante doesnt have access to yamato in a vs.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No it slowly drained his soul, in replace for power and obviously youve not played the level then because that gives you infnite DT. He didnt stay in infnite DT at all, his Mundus fight had an unkown time strapped onto it.

It doesnt last that long, prob 8 seconds at max.

Mission 12. In exchange for his soul, it gives him power(this was Dante's weakest incarnation btw), just because he was in DT, doesn't mean he didn't actually get power. Play DMC, he stay in infinite DT, until you defeat Mundus.

It does; I timed it.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
all teleportation is dimensional. turning intangible and appearing sumwhere else isnt true teleportation.

the orbs are gameplay, dante when enraged has remained in devil trigger canonically indefinately as seen in his fight against mundus in devil may cry 1. and he can also stay in that mode indefinately in super dante mode as well as indefinate time slow powers.

kain can not use it without pause repeatedly.

dante has all the weapons he had, whether he chooses to use them or not is upto him. amd yamato is stored in hammer space and appears whenever its called on, he doesnt have to have it on his body to use it.

Moving through dimension teleporting is a diffrent type than displacing your molecules/particles.

The orb in DMC 3 is a cinematic cutscene where he holds a small green orb and Jester explains how it sucks souls in replace for power, this gives him infnite DT. Mundus fight shows no infnite DT at all, he doesnt even have it in the next part of the fight.

It prob takes about a split second to activate, its not even worth mentioning such a limit on its usage.

As i said, Dante in canon does not have it, he gives it to Nero at the end of DMC 4, he no longer has the sword.

Originally posted by Gumachi
Mission 12. In exchange for his soul, it gives him power(this was Dante's weakest incarnation btw), just because he was in DT, doesn't mean he didn't actually get power. Play DMC, he stay in infinite DT, until you defeat Mundus.

It does; I timed it.

Wtf are you talking about, you just proved my point, he requires extra power from items such as that little orb to have infnite DT, thus....obvioulsy he doesnt have infnite DT by default. So? thats what gameplay is, its funny how you claim how the time you can stay in DT is gameplay, then you use gameplay to claim its infnite...ridiculous, and I can defeat Mundus in a few minutes, so obvioulsy thats not infnite DT...

No canon showing has Dante with unlimited DT usage.

Obviously he does. It's in one of the cutscenes in DMC. That's not proving it's infinite. That doesn't prove anything, infact if you were to take his soul away, it would leave his DT. Obviously his stronger form is his devil side.

Play DMC. Why wouldn't it be infinite? Even Nelo-Angelo stayed in his "devil trigger" form when you encountered him.

Originally posted by Gumachi
Obviously he does. It's in one of the cutscenes in DMC. That's not proving it's infinite. That doesn't prove anything, infact if you were to take his soul away, it would leave his DT. Obviously his stronger form is his devil side.

Play DMC. Why wouldn't it be infinite? Even Nelo-Angelo stayed in his "devil trigger" form when you encountered him.

It proves he does not have infnite DT

That looks nothing like his DT form and furthermore he is empowered by Mundus, he is Mundus' servant at that point.

Vergils DT:

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa71/deyvimaycry/devilmaycry3se/Vergildt.jpg

Nelo:

http://www.freewebs.com/pokemonblack15/NeloAngeloDMC1DT.jpg

Whatever, man. You don't like to listen.

Play DMC3. Vergil is in human form, and when you devil trigger, it's Nelo-Angelo. I probably could post a vid.

http://imagecache.allposters.com/images/pic/CAPPOD/DMC008~Devil-May-Cry-Vergil-Posters.jpg <Vergil stayed in that form in DMC, but the above you posted is his DT, he even was out of his DT form when you encountered him the last time.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Moving through dimension teleporting is a diffrent type than displacing your molecules/particles.

The orb in DMC 3 is a cinematic cutscene where he holds a small green orb and Jester explains how it sucks souls in replace for power, this gives him infnite DT. Mundus fight shows no infnite DT at all, he doesnt even have it in the next part of the fight.

It prob takes about a split second to activate, its not even worth mentioning such a limit on its usage.

As i said, Dante in canon does not have it, he gives it to Nero at the end of DMC 4, he no longer has the sword.

WRONG. TELEPORTION is the INSTANEOUS movement of matter/energy from one place to another WITHOUT COVERING THE DISTANCE IN BETWEEN. molecular dispersion is NOT teleportation. what dante does is teleport, not molecular dispersion as molecular dispersion has progrssion while dante BEEPS OUT.

he has it in the first and without it, he cudnt FLY through the dimensional battle field. nough said, no more debate on this.

but that FACT of its deactivation is evidence enough.

this is a pathetic argument which is a very transparent attempt at trying to tip the battle against dante just a little bit more. and as i said, yamato exists in hammer space and can be called on by its user instantaneously.

Originally posted by Burning thought
It proves he does not have infnite DT

That looks nothing like his DT form and furthermore he is empowered by Mundus, he is Mundus' servant at that point.

Vergils DT:

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa71/deyvimaycry/devilmaycry3se/Vergildt.jpg

Nelo:

http://www.freewebs.com/pokemonblack15/NeloAngeloDMC1DT.jpg

actually, nelo angelo is the SPECIAL devil trigger of vergil in the extended version where he truly acheives the peak of his power. they look IDENTICAL.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
WRONG. TELEPORTION is the INSTANEOUS movement of matter/energy from one place to another WITHOUT COVERING THE DISTANCE IN BETWEEN. molecular dispersion is NOT teleportation. what dante does is teleport, not molecular dispersion as molecular dispersion has progrssion while dante BEEPS OUT.

he has it in the first and without it, he cudnt FLY through the dimensional battle field. nough said, no more debate on this.

but that FACT of its deactivation is evidence enough.

this is a pathetic argument which is a very transparent attempt at trying to tip the battle against dante just a little bit more. and as i said, yamato exists in hammer space and can be called on by its user instantaneously.

Thats what transporting molecules is, the matter/energy, although the intantaneous nature is set back by the fact Dantes is fairly slow unfortunaltey, thats nothing to do with traveling dimentions.

Show me "infnite" DT, theres nothing proving it at all, just fanfiction.

hammer space? your inventing things, your prob taking things from uncanon mangas and animes or something, this "hammer" space is not mentioned in the DMC series and Yamato certainly is not part of it, simple ,we dont debate Kain with his BO 1 armour and swords, because he does not canonically have them, neither does Dante canonically have Yamato naymore.

Originally posted by Gumachi
Whatever, man. You don't like to listen.

Play DMC3. Vergil is in human form, and when you devil trigger, it's Nelo-Angelo. I probably could post a vid.

I just posted the two images that prove you wrong so dont bother.

Relook at my comments. So I just proved YOU wrong.

As for the Yamato thing, unless a mod comes in here and says Dante can't use it, then he can.

Youve proven nothing, Ive shown an image of his DT in DMC 3, and Nelo Angelo, their completly diffrent, you posting a picture of Sparda changes nothing.

And if you want to give Dante uncanon elements that he wouldnt have a in real battle then w/e its your thread

Play DMC3, it's Vergil. Sparda & Vergil look entirely different. J-ieRmmwxY8&feature=related in DMC3 you can stay in his human form.

Whatever.

zzydMLP4Fjw&feature=related And that "aura" around Dante should be proof that he has infinite DT. Charlotte Debel: "That aura that he gets when he first transforms into the form close to his father's (and which you also get with costumes that give you unlimited DT- proving that the stuff is canonical and the aura appears in relgular DMC storyline also)"