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Gorgon has that crazy speed, but I think the Force out does him on this one. And even though he can read Windu's mind, he can't stop the Force from being used. Plus Windu can use Shatterpoints, he could touch Gorgon and seal away his powers, or something like that. It's a hard fight, but Windu takes it.

Shatterpoints just reveal an opponent's weakness. Similar to what Karnak can do.

Anywho, Windu FTW.

I make the besterest threads.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
I make the besterest threads.
lol, you know it's getting closed.

While they do reveal weakness, they go beyond that. Windu saw Palpatine as a Shatterpoint that would have ended the war. If he had killed him, the whole Trade Federation would have given up. They see weakness, and the quickest way to resolve, end fights, and situations. Jacen Solo couldn't beat a Mando soldier because of his Beskar, then he saw a Shatterpoint, tapped it, put some Force energy behind it, and the armor fell apart.

Well technically, Windu was a comic/book character before he was brought to the big screen.

Originally posted by Enyalus
lol, you know it's getting closed. NEIN!

Sure, King. But I didn't get what you meant by 'seal away his powers.' 'Cause Shatterpoint doesn't work like that. As you apparently know, lol.

Uh, well... I say that it's a stalemate until Mace runs out of stamina, then Gorgon guts him.

Or something.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Uh, well... I say that it's a stalemate until Mace runs out of stamina, then Gorgon guts him.
Against a bad guy like Gorgon, Mace isn't gonna run out of stamina.

Dude's strong enough to tear apart durasteel with his bare hands. And moves faster than the average human can see...like Gorgon does.

I was just using that as an example. It was nothing more than wishful thinking, but he could so something like tap Gorgon's eyes so his stone gaze isn't projected, he mess with his head so he can't use his TP, maybe even mess with one of his legs to reduce or outright stop his speed. Plus, he has a lightsaber and Force powers.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Against a bad guy like Gorgon, Mace isn't gonna run out of stamina.

Dude's strong enough to tear apart durasteel with his bare hands. And moves faster than the average human can see...like Gorgon does. Gorgon moves faster than the average human can think.

Plus he has the mind reading edge.

And stuff.

Mace isn't an average human, he has some crazy speed feats in the EU universe. Plus fighting Jedi and blocking blaster bolts take insane speed as well. And jedi can anticipate attacks in battle, for the most part. And Mace has Force Powers, and stuff.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Plus he has the mind reading edge.
"Jedi mind trick."

Samuel L. Jackson

His only weakness is sharks

Originally posted by Original Smurph
I make the besterest threads.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/700.gif

So Mace Windu started off in he comics before the movies?

Looked it up, I was mistaken, Windu was 1st introduce in Phantom Menace. Books came after.

Originally posted by Mindset
Samuel L. Jackson

His only weakness is sharks

and dinosaurs.

Originally posted by KingD19
Looked it up, I was mistaken, Windu was 1st introduce in Phantom Menace. Books came after.


So why is'nt this closed then Raoul?

Originally posted by Kazenji
So why is'nt this closed then Raoul? Because Raoul isn't senseless. This is a fine thread and nothing's gonna get answered if it's in the Star Wars forum.

It's just one thread.

Anyways, back on topic plz.

Mace Windu

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Mace Windu Gorgon

Originally posted by Mindset
Samuel L. Jackson

His only weakness is sharks
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/0f345a78d5/samuel-l-jackson-beer-from-greatestcommercialparodies

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Gorgon

Windu a beast, he can simply win by range attacks, or he can cut gorgon into little pieces

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Windu a beast, he can simply win by range attacks, or he can cut gorgon into little pieces Gorgon a beast, he can simply mindread to avoid all of windu's attacks, and he can heal from everything

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Gorgon a beast, he can simply mindread to avoid all of windu's attacks, and he can heal from everything His mind is protected by the force.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Gorgon a beast, he can simply mindread to avoid all of windu's attacks, and he can heal from everything

Not likly to work on a Jedi. There powers would block out telepathy. Not to mention Windu him self can senses all of Gorgons movements, as well as shatter points. Gorgon can heal froma shit load, hwoever cutting him into pieces is enough for a KO or crush his head.

Mace is a beast, I dont think Wolverine with his claws vs mace only going melee would even win. actaully I think mace might win every time

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Not likly to work on a Jedi. There powers would block out telepathy. Not to mention Windu him self can senses all of Gorgons movements, as well as shatter points. Gorgon can heal froma shit load, hwoever cutting him into pieces is enough for a KO or crush his head. Wolverine and Elektra's powers block out telepathy too. Gorgon was too powerful.

It's only enough for a KO if he gets knocked out.

Mace can't heal. Gorgon cuts him to pieces. Or stone stare.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Mace is a beast, I dont think Wolverine with his claws vs mace only going melee would even win. actaully I think mace might win every time Well, I think Gorgon would win every time while only going melee against Wolverine with his claws.

Originally posted by Mindset
His mind is protected by the force. Wolverine's mind was protected by Xavier's TP blocks.

Also, where has the force specifically blocked out telepathy?

Jedi mind powers are ridiculously inferior to Gorgon.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Wolverine and Elektra's powers block out telepathy too. Gorgon was too powerful.

It's only enough for a KO if he gets knocked out.

Mace can't heal. Gorgon cuts him to pieces. Or stone stare.

yes however there not as powerful as Mace. Mace is one of if not the strongest in the force. There no reason to assuem gorgon could enter his mind.

If you crushed his head or cut him into pieces he be KOed.

How gorgon gunna cut mace into pieces? when he can even get closes to him? stone star could work, however mace could simply closes his eyes or cut gorgon head off and force pushing it miles away.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Well, I think Gorgon would win every time while only going melee against Wolverine with his claws.
no I am saying with out any ways, gorgon would have to be h2h vs wolverine with claws.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Wolverine's mind was protected by Xavier's TP blocks.

Also, where has the force specifically blocked out telepathy?

Jedi mind powers are ridiculously inferior to Gorgon.

in the comics if not mistaken quite a bit. Jedi and forces user, along with certain races could uses TP as well as TP type attacks.

also I dont think wolverine had TP blocker at the time

Originally posted by Battlehammer
yes however there not as powerful as Mace. Mace is one of if not the strongest in the force. There no reason to assuem gorgon could enter his mind.

If you crushed his head or cut him into pieces he be KOed.

How gorgon gunna cut mace into pieces? when he can even get closes to him? stone star could work, however mace could simply closes his eyes or cut gorgon head off and force pushing it miles away. There's no reason to assume that Mace could block him out. Last I checked, they had nothing on marvel telepaths.

Good thing Mace wouldn't get that opportunity.

Mace prefers sword combat to long range. He wouldn't be simply sniping with force attacks.

Windu can't and won't do anything with telepathy to Gorgon. He does, however, have battle precognition. Which would help out greatly.

He's also got powerful TK.

That cartoon Windu was one bad@ss motherf*cker.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Wolverine's mind was protected by Xavier's TP blocks.

Weren't the psi-shields mentioned in Wolverine #46, which took place after EOTS and Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.?

Wolverine's mind is highly resistant to telepathy even without them, though. You do have a point. There is a psychic scar tissue, berserker rage and Xavier's mind-shielding training (which every X-Men received btw).

Originally posted by Battlehammer
also I dont think wolverine had TP blocker at the time mmm

Well, either way, Gorgon was tearing through his mind with ease. That's high level TP to do that.

Anyways, Gorgon stone stares him ftw. Mace doesn't see it coming. Well, until he does. Then he's dead. GET IT LOLZ?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
also I dont think wolverine had TP blocker at the time

Originally posted by Original Smurph
There's no reason to assume that Mace could block him out. Last I checked, they had nothing on marvel telepaths.

Good thing Mace wouldn't get that opportunity.

Mace prefers sword combat to long range. He wouldn't be simply sniping with force attacks.

assault perhaps, however every signle Jedi has immensely strong resistents to mind probbing. There no reason to assume gorgon could read maces mind.


sniping? he woudlent ened to snipe anything. Gorgon cant dodge his force attacls. He could litterally big gorgon up and crush him. uses force crush like he did with grevious.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
mmm

Well, either way, Gorgon was tearing through his mind with ease. That's high level TP to do that.

Anyways, Gorgon stone stares him ftw. Mace doesn't see it coming. Well, until he does. Then he's dead. GET IT LOLZ?

basic knowledge would allow mace to knwo of such an attack. Mace closes his eyes and they ripps gorgon apart with the force.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
mmm

Well, either way, Gorgon was tearing through his mind with ease. That's high level TP to do that.



it true it does take one. This is due to mental defenses Logan him self put up, it also has to do with the very nature of his powers, as well as the strength of his will.

Fighting blind is nothing new to Jedi btw. And Windu's Jedi Master.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Fighting blind is nothing new to Jedi btw. And Windu's Jedi Master.
who can amp his speed beyond the reaction times of even other jedi masters who are all superhuman in that area

Originally posted by Battlehammer
who can amp his speed beyond the reaction times of even other jedi masters who are all superhuman in that area
Not really. Yoda owns Windu in speed.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Fighting blind is nothing new to Jedi btw. And Windu's Jedi Master. Isn't a large portion of Jedi training done blind folded? I thought I read that in a comic somewhere.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Not really. Yoda owns Windu in speed.
not even closes. Mace is faster then Yoda. Hell his wn style he created hole purposes is to amp his speed to crazy levels.

and I know your messing with me but it a reflex lol

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Isn't a large portion of Jedi training done blind folded? I thought I read that in a comic somewhere.
yes and it was shown in the movies

Yoda is faster than Windu imo and more skilled with force and sabers.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Isn't a large portion of Jedi training done blind folded? I thought I read that in a comic somewhere.

Yes. It's stated in SW books, too.

Oh and there is always A New Hope example...

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Yoda is faster than Windu imo and more skilled with force and sabers.
your wrong he not.

Mace is actaully the most skilled light saber fighter. Yoda knows mroe about the force however he not more powerful. Also maces style which is the most powerful light saber style, his version of it greatly amps his speed.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Oh and there is always A New Hope example... Sh!t, I forgot about that. Wasn't Kenobi training Luke blind folded?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
your wrong he not.

Mace is actaully the most skilled light saber fighter. Yoda knows mroe about the force however he not more powerful. Also maces style which is the most powerful light saber style, his version of it greatly amps his speed. It says on the official web-site the only person to best Mace in a saber duel is Yoda and Dooku.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
not even closes. Mace is faster then Yoda. Hell his wn style he created hole purposes is to amp his speed to crazy levels.

No. Vaapad only works effectively if you're fighting a Dark Sider, and it reflects back whatever they're uber in the force at. Palaptine's speed was amazing, so that's what Mace was able to match. If he had been fighting Vader, he'd have gotten an incredible force-strength boost.

One on one, typically, Yoda's easily faster than Mace and anyone else save for Palpatine and (perhaps) Darth Bane.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
It says on the official web-site the only person to best Mace in a saber duel is Yoda and Dooku.
it was a sparing match, also prior to mace being jedi master. He was a young jedi at the time, it actaully more impressive that the only people able to beat him even at a young age were the two best jedi light saber fighters.


however after Mace developed the final form of light saber combat, he was consider unbeatable.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
assault perhaps, however every signle Jedi has immensely strong resistents to mind probbing. There no reason to assume gorgon could read maces mind.


sniping? he woudlent ened to snipe anything. Gorgon cant dodge his force attacls. He could litterally big gorgon up and crush him. uses force crush like he did with grevious. Every single Gorgon (Tomi Shishido) has immensely strong skill with mind probing. There no reason to assume gorgon couldn't read mace's mind.

Sniping? meh. Gorgon is too fast to let Mace focus from afar. Gorgon will make it an up close battle very quickly.

Besides, Mace prefers lightsaber combat. As soon as he tries to hit Gorgon, or hits Gorgon and Gorgon heals, Gorgon hits him back. And kills him.

Originally posted by Enyalus
No. Vaapad only works effectively if you're fighting a Dark Sider, and it reflects back whatever they're uber in the force at. Palaptine's speed was amazing, so that's what Mace was able to match. If he had been fighting Vader, he'd have gotten an incredible force-strength boost.

One on one, typically, Yoda's easily faster than Mace and anyone else save for Palpatine and (perhaps) Darth Bane.

No it doesent. Mace style does not gain power from who he fighting. It gains power form his own darknesses in him which is why he created the style. what your stating is a general misconception. Nor has what yoru saying every been stated.


No he not. Maces own style allows him to amp his speed greatly and is shown when he single handily defeats army with his bare hands

Originally posted by Battlehammer
it was a sparing match, also prior to mace being jedi master. He was a young jedi at the time, it actaully more impressive that the only people able to beat him even at a young age were the two best jedi light saber fighters.


however after Mace developed the final form of light saber combat, he was consider unbeatable. It was a full contact fight, but they were using tuned down lightsabers.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Sh!t, I forgot about that. Wasn't Kenobi training Luke blind folded?

Yeah. The seeker drone scene.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
It was a full contact fight, but they were using tuned down lightsabers.
it was a sparing match, it was when mace was young prior to being on the council or a master. Hell This is even proven by the fact Dooku scared shitless of mace and runs a number of times from him during the clone wars.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
it was a sparing match, it was when mace was young prior to being on the council or a master. Hell This is even proven by the fact Dooku scared shitless of mace and runs a number of times from him during the clone wars. Dooku scared sh!tless of Mace?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Dooku scared sh!tless of Mace?
yes Dooku was scared of mace. He dident want to fight Mace becuases he new he loses.

He ran from him on the train, He had the bounty hunter attack mace instead of fighting him himself and ran. oh and there a third time, but I cant remeber it

Mace would **** Dooku up.

Originally posted by Mindset
Mace would **** Dooku up.
It's not nice to beat up 83 year olds.

But seriously, Dooku's far more skilled in the force, and mastered/uses the 'ultimate refinement in lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat.'

even palp was never knee on fighting mace nor even the man who help mace create his style the legendary baqual or some shit.

Originally posted by Enyalus
It's not nice to beat up 83 year olds.

But seriously, Dooku's far more skilled in the force, and mastered/uses the 'ultimate refinement in lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat.'
No he not. Dooku never wanted to fight Mace. he get stompped on and he new it.

Anakin beat Dooku, raped him in fact.

Dooku isn't beating Mace, he may be superior in force techniques, but not dueling.

Originally posted by Mindset
Anakin beat Dooku, raped him in fact.

Dooku isn't beating Mace, he may be superior in force techniques, but not dueling.

he not superior in anything. Anakin did beat Dooku something that would never of happened to Mace.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
yes Dooku was scared of mace. He dident want to fight Mace becuases he new he loses.

He ran from him on the train, He had the bounty hunter attack mace instead of fighting him himself and ran. oh and there a third time, but I cant remeber it I didn't see those episodes.

It funny but it believed Mace could have ended the war had he not chosen to elave the caves inorder I believe ironically it was to save anakin, had he stayed he would have found palp.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I didn't see those episodes.

one was from the movie number 2 the other from a comic I believe.


you never say the new movies? then why are you discussing mace?

Mace would be balls deep in Dooku if they had ever fought.

Originally posted by Mindset
Mace would be balls deep in Dooku if they had ever fought.
lol it true.

If not mistaken Palp refferences Mace Windu as his biggest threat, also way after Maces death he made such a bold move against the jedi

Originally posted by Mindset
Anakin beat Dooku, raped him in fact.

Dooku isn't beating Mace, he may be superior in force techniques, but not dueling.
You're using that as evidence? Anakin was the chosen one. He'd have been twice as powerful as Sidious or Yoda at his full potential. When he beat Dooku, he was in somekind of 'crystal clarity' mode. Totally calm. Doesn't happen very often. The novel mentions Anakin struck with the force of a meteor strike, and was only getting stronger as the battle wore on, his stamina increasing. He basically has unlimited force reserves, while Dooku was forced to draw on more and more powerful just to parry Anakin's blows.

An 'in the zone' Anakin demolishes anyone in saber combat.

also another over looked thing is Maces ability in shatter points. He naterually powerful and skilled in them with cosnidering his training. Thats a huge davntage in any fight

Originally posted by Battlehammer
No it doesent. Mace style does not gain power from who he fighting. It gains power form his own darknesses in him which is why he created the style. what your stating is a general misconception. Nor has what yoru saying every been stated.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Vaapad1.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Vaapad2.jpg

Pay attention especially to the second scan. He not only uses the darkness within himself, but also in the other person. That's how he can reflect their abilities back at them. Everything I said was corrected and backed up. This is how Vaapad works.

Originally posted by Enyalus


An 'in the zone' Anakin demolishes anyone in saber combat.

I compeltley disagree.

Originally posted by Enyalus
You're using that as evidence? Anakin was the chosen one. He'd have been twice as powerful as Sidious or Yoda at his full potential. When he beat Dooku, he was in somekind of 'crystal clarity' mode. Totally calm. Doesn't happen very often. The novel mentions Anakin struck with the force of a meteor strike, and was only getting stronger as the battle wore on, his stamina increasing. He basically has unlimited force reserves, while Dooku was forced to draw on more and more powerful just to parry Anakin's blows.

An 'in the zone' Anakin demolishes anyone in saber combat. Not really.

When he fought Dooku he wasn't at full potential, he never reaches full potential. Anakin was just simply better than Dooku, Dooku should have killed him when he had the chance.


What makes you think Anakin beats anyone in a saber fight?

Originally posted by Enyalus
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Vaapad1.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Vaapad2.jpg

Pay attention especially to the second scan. He not only uses the darkness within himself, but also in the other person. That's how he can reflect their abilities back at them. Everything I said was corrected and backed up. This is how Vaapad works.

Not seeing how this proves your point. it says nothing of gaining your opponets abilties. It says haft of the loop is your self the other is that of darknesses. Him transforming that darkness in ones self into power. It not him using his opponets powers, it him using his own powers.

also what book is that?

Originally posted by Mindset
What makes you think Anakin beats anyone in a saber fight?
Meh, I take it back. I'll pull a TP and say "SPEED KILLS." Yoda and Sidious both are faster, so...

List of people Mace would be balls deep in:
Anakin
Palpatine
Dooku
etc.
etc.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Not seeing how this proves your point. it says nothing of gaining your opponets abilties. It says haft of the loop is your self the other is that of darknesses. Him transforming that darkness in ones self into power. It not him using his opponets powers, it him using his own powers.

also what book is that?

Accepting and embracing the fury of the opponent. One half is his own Darkness. One half is the opponent. That's what completes the 'superconducting loop.'


It's Jedi vs. Sith, Essential Guide to the Force.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Accepting and embracing the fury of the opponent. One half is his own Darkness. One half is the opponent. That's what completes the 'superconducting loop.'


It's Jedi vs. Sith, Essential Guide to the Force.
yes and? that doesent mean he gains power from his opponets. also says the loop never touches him. He also stated before if not mistaken his version on the form give him incredable speed.

Not to mention he created the style sparing with another jedi. It not jsut effective vs sith, that a misconceptiuon of the style.

Originally posted by Enyalus
It's not nice to beat up 83 year olds.

But seriously, Dooku's far more skilled in the force, and mastered/uses the 'ultimate refinement in lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat.'

Dooku's style is too laid back and relaxed. Vaapaad has an advantage against it in my opinion. Mace has a lot of strength and a lot of power in his attacks.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
yes and? that doesent mean he gains power from his opponets. also says the loop never touches him. He also stated before if not mistaken his version on the form give him incredable speed.

Not to mention he created the style sparing with another jedi. It not jsut effective vs sith, that a misconceptiuon of the style.
If you read the ROTS novelization, you'd know otherwise. Because during his fight with Palpatine, its explained directly.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Dooku's style is too laid back and relaxed. Vaapaad has an advantage against it in my opinion. Mace has a lot of strength and a lot of power in his attacks.
Yeah, I agree 100%. Dooku had issues against Anakin because of his Djem So style, which are a lot of forceful, direct attacks. Juyo/Vaapad is even more aggressive and powerful.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Dooku's style is too laid back and relaxed. Vaapaad has an advantage against it in my opinion. Mace has a lot of strength and a lot of power in his attacks.
and speed which si the main atribute and why it called the Vaapaad, even to powerful jedi it seems as if he attacking with 6 different swords ect.

Originally posted by Enyalus
If you read the ROTS novelization, you'd know otherwise. Because during his fight with Palpatine, its explained directly.


Novel is not the end all be all either. also dont recall that at all and ive read that battle. He dident gain powers from palp it was already his existing powers.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Novel is not the end all be all either. also dont recall that at all and ive read that battle. He dident gain powers from palp it was already his existing powers.
The novel was edited by Lucas himself. Its still C-canon, but its as close as any C-canon can get to being G-canon. Here's part of the fight in question from the novel:

Within the public office of the Supreme Chancellor of the Galactic Republic, a last Jedi Master battled alone, blade-to-blade, against a living shadow.

Sinking into Vaapad, Mace Windu fought for his life.

More than his life: each whirl of blade and whipcrack of lightning was a strike in defense of democracy, of justice and peace, of the rights of ordinary beings to live their own lives in their own ways.

He was fighting for the Republic that he loved.

Vaapad, the seventh form of lightsaber combat, takes its name from a notoriously dangerous predator native to the moons of Sarapin: a vaapad attacks its prey with whipping strikes of its blindingly fast tentacles. Most have at least seven. It is not uncommon for them to have as many as twelve; the largest ever killed had twenty-three. With a vaapad, one never knew how many tentacles it had until it was dead: they move too fast to count. Almost too fast to see. So did Mace's blade.

Vaapad is as aggressive and powerful as its namesake, but its power comes at great risk: immersion in Vaapad opens the gates that restrain one's inner darkness. To use Vaapad, a Jedi must allow himself to enjoy the fight; he must give himself over to the thrill of battle. The rush of winning. Vaapad is a path that leads through the penumbra of the dark side.

Mace Windu created this style, and he was its only living master.

This was Vaapad's ultimate test.

Anakin blinked and rubbed his eyes again. Maybe he was still a bit flash-blind-the Korun Master seemed to be fading in and out of existence, half swallowed by a thickening black haze in which danced a meter-long bar of sunfire. Mace pressed back the darkness with a relentless straight-ahead march; his own blade, that distinctive amethyst blaze that had been the final sight of so many evil beings across the galaxy, made a haze of its own: an oblate sphere of purple fire within which there seemed to be dozens of swords slashing in all directions at once.

The shadow he fought, that blur of speed-could that be Palpatine?

Their blades flared and flashed, crashing together with bursts of fire, weaving nets of killing energy in exchanges so fast that Anakin could not truly see them-But he could feel them in the Force.

The Force itself roiled and burst and crashed around them, boiling with power and lightspeed ricochets of lethal intent.

And it was darkening.

Anakin could feel how the Force fed upon the shadow's murderous exaltation; he could feel fury spray into the Force though some poisonous abscess had crested in both their hearts.

There was no Jedi restraint here.

Mace Windu was cutting loose.

Mace was deep in it now: submerged in Vaapad, swallowed by it, he no longer truly existed as an independent being.

Vaapad is a channel for darkness, and that darkness flowed both ways. He accepted the furious speed of the Sith Lord, drew the shadow's rage and power into his inmost center-And let it fountain out again.

He reflected the fury upon its source as a lightsaber redirects a blaster bolt.

There was a time when Mace Windu had feared the power of the dark; there was a time when he had feared the darkness in himself. But the Clone Wars had given him a gift of understanding: on a world called Haruun Kal, he had faced his darkness and had learned that the power of darkness is not to be feared.

He had learned that it is fear that gives the darkness power.

He was not afraid. The darkness had no power over him. But-Neither did he have power over it.

Vaapad made him an open channel, half of a superconducting loop completed by the shadow; they became a standing wave of battle that expanded into every cubic centimeter of the Chancellor's office. There was no scrap of carpet nor shred of chair that might not at any second disintegrate in flares of red or purple; lampstands became brief shields, sliced into segments that whirled through the air; couches became terrain to be climbed for advantage or overleapt in retreat. But there was still only the cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue.

Impasse.

Which might have gone on forever, if Vaapad were Mace's only gift.



The only reason Mace was able to stand against Palpatine's absurd speed (speed enough to fight Yoda as an equal) was because he was using Palpatine's own speed against him...which resulted in an impasse, as the novel points out. That is, until Mace uses his shatterpoint.

Mace would be balls deep in Lucas.

Originally posted by Mindset
Mace would be balls deep in Lucas.
Snakes on a spaceship > Mace.

Originally posted by Enyalus
The novel was edited by Lucas himself. Its still C-canon, but its as close as any C-canon can get to being G-canon. Here's part of the fight in question from the novel:

Within the public office of the Supreme Chancellor of the Galactic Republic, a last Jedi Master battled alone, blade-to-blade, against a living shadow.

Sinking into Vaapad, Mace Windu fought for his life.

More than his life: each whirl of blade and whipcrack of lightning was a strike in defense of democracy, of justice and peace, of the rights of ordinary beings to live their own lives in their own ways.

He was fighting for the Republic that he loved.

Vaapad, the seventh form of lightsaber combat, takes its name from a notoriously dangerous predator native to the moons of Sarapin: a vaapad attacks its prey with whipping strikes of its blindingly fast tentacles. Most have at least seven. It is not uncommon for them to have as many as twelve; the largest ever killed had twenty-three. With a vaapad, one never knew how many tentacles it had until it was dead: they move too fast to count. Almost too fast to see. So did Mace's blade.

Vaapad is as aggressive and powerful as its namesake, but its power comes at great risk: immersion in Vaapad opens the gates that restrain one's inner darkness. To use Vaapad, a Jedi must allow himself to enjoy the fight; he must give himself over to the thrill of battle. The rush of winning. Vaapad is a path that leads through the penumbra of the dark side.

Mace Windu created this style, and he was its only living master.

This was Vaapad's ultimate test.

Anakin blinked and rubbed his eyes again. Maybe he was still a bit flash-blind-the Korun Master seemed to be fading in and out of existence, half swallowed by a thickening black haze in which danced a meter-long bar of sunfire. Mace pressed back the darkness with a relentless straight-ahead march; his own blade, that distinctive amethyst blaze that had been the final sight of so many evil beings across the galaxy, made a haze of its own: an oblate sphere of purple fire within which there seemed to be dozens of swords slashing in all directions at once.

The shadow he fought, that blur of speed-could that be Palpatine?

Their blades flared and flashed, crashing together with bursts of fire, weaving nets of killing energy in exchanges so fast that Anakin could not truly see them-But he could feel them in the Force.

The Force itself roiled and burst and crashed around them, boiling with power and lightspeed ricochets of lethal intent.

And it was darkening.

Anakin could feel how the Force fed upon the shadow's murderous exaltation; he could feel fury spray into the Force though some poisonous abscess had crested in both their hearts.

There was no Jedi restraint here.

Mace Windu was cutting loose.

Mace was deep in it now: submerged in Vaapad, swallowed by it, he no longer truly existed as an independent being.

Vaapad is a channel for darkness, and that darkness flowed both ways. He accepted the furious speed of the Sith Lord, drew the shadow's rage and power into his inmost center-And let it fountain out again.

He reflected the fury upon its source as a lightsaber redirects a blaster bolt.

There was a time when Mace Windu had feared the power of the dark; there was a time when he had feared the darkness in himself. But the Clone Wars had given him a gift of understanding: on a world called Haruun Kal, he had faced his darkness and had learned that the power of darkness is not to be feared.

He had learned that it is fear that gives the darkness power.

He was not afraid. The darkness had no power over him. But-Neither did he have power over it.

Vaapad made him an open channel, half of a superconducting loop completed by the shadow; they became a standing wave of battle that expanded into every cubic centimeter of the Chancellor's office. There was no scrap of carpet nor shred of chair that might not at any second disintegrate in flares of red or purple; lampstands became brief shields, sliced into segments that whirled through the air; couches became terrain to be climbed for advantage or overleapt in retreat. But there was still only the cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue.

Impasse.

Which might have gone on forever, if Vaapad were Mace's only gift.



The only reason Mace was able to stand against Palpatine's absurd speed (speed enough to fight Yoda as an equal) was because he was using Palpatine's own speed against him...which resulted in an impasse, as the novel points out. That is, until Mace uses his shatterpoint.


That extremely ambiguous.

nothing from that indicates he not as fast as Yoda.

also were was it ever stated be personally editted by Lucas?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
also were was it ever stated be personally editted by Lucas?
Matt Stover's (the author's) personal blog.

Not editted. Looked over. To make sure the movie script fit into the novel's script. The novel was released before the movie.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Matt Stover's (the author's) personal blog.

Not editted. Looked over. To make sure the movie script fit into the novel's script. The novel was released before the movie.


so was the comic doesent mean Lucas looked at it. also isent the comic C-Cannon?


also in the movie anakin does not even show up untill palp defeated.......which was the entire point on why he cut windu arm off, it looked as if windu had palp an old man defeated upon the ground

Originally posted by Battlehammer
so was the comic doesent mean Lucas looked at it. also isent the comic C-Cannon?
I didn't realize there was an ROTS comic.

Yes, both the comic and novel are C-canon. But as you can see, the novel just adds more detail to the movie. Doesn't contradict anything.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I didn't realize there was an ROTS comic.

Yes, both the comic and novel are C-canon. But as you can see, the novel just adds more detail to the movie. Doesn't contradict anything.

yes it does, it has anakin there when he wasent which is dirrectly controdiction to the movie

Originally posted by Battlehammer
yes it does, it has anakin there when he wasent which is dirrectly controdiction to the movie
...Anakin was there for the tail end of the battle in the movie...

Originally posted by Enyalus
...Anakin was there for the tail end of the battle in the movie...
Anakin dident walk in untill right when mace disarmed palp

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Anakin dident walk in untill right when mace disarmed palp
So, what, exactly is being contradicted? Slight edit, no big deal. As I said, the novel was released first. Reviewed personally by Lucas.

I've also given you two different sources explaining what Vaapad does. Is Mace fast? Hell yeah. Is he faster than Yoda or Sidious on his own? No way in hell. Those two have more force power than anyone besides Anakin. More force = more force to amp speed with, and deeper reserves to sustain it with.

Obi Wan > Sidious

Originally posted by Mindset
Obi Wan > Sidious
Not according to Yoda, who said he wasn't powerful enough to take on the Dark Lord.

Originally posted by Enyalus
So, what, exactly is being contradicted? Slight edit, no big deal. As I said, the novel was released first. Reviewed personally by Lucas.

I've also given you two different sources explaining what Vaapad does. Is Mace fast? Hell yeah. Is he faster than Yoda or Sidious on his own? No way in hell. Those two have more force power than anyone besides Anakin. More force = more force to amp speed with, and deeper reserves to sustain it with.

were was it stated that it was reviewed personally by Lucas? Also it straight up controdicts the movie. Movie is the end all be all.

No they don't. For one Mace had the most whatever they had counts, untill arrival of anakin if not mistaken. He also uses his Vaapad to directly increases his speed which is why it name the Vaapad in the first place.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Not according to Yoda, who said he wasn't powerful enough to take on the Dark Lord. Yoda doesn't know anything tbh.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
were was it stated that it was reviewed personally by Lucas? Also it straight up controdicts the movie. Movie is the end all be all.

No they don't. For one Mace had the most whatever they had counts, untill arrival of anakin if not mistaken. He also uses his Vaapad to directly increases his speed which is why it name the Vaapad in the first place.
I already told you.


No. Yoda had the highest midichlorian count prior to Anakin. That's referenced by Qui-Gon in TPM.


Originally posted by Mindset
Yoda doesn't know anything tbh.
True.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I already told you.


No. Yoda had the highest midichlorian count prior to Anakin. That's referenced by Qui-Gon in TPM.



yea the author blog........that impossiable to look up to see if it true or not.



In the movie? Becuases I dont recall that at all.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
yea the author blog........that impossiable to look up to see if it true or not.
I already went out of my way to provide you with two pieces of evidence. I'm not digging through his blog to provide you another piece that you'll ignore or explain away.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
In the movie? Becuases I dont recall that at all.
Yes. When Qui-Gon checks Anakin's blood and uploads the results to Obi-Wan on the Queen's spacecraft while they're stranded on Tatooine. Don't tell me you don't recall the "Over 20,00, that's higher than Master Yoda's" comment?

Originally posted by Enyalus


Yes. When Qui-Gon checks Anakin's blood and uploads the results to Obi-Wan on the Queen's spacecraft while they're stranded on Tatooine. Don't tell me you don't recall the "Over 20,00, that's higher than Master Yoda's" comment?
No not really, nor does that statement indicate that Yoda had the highest count.

Bottom line is that Mace did not have the highest midichlorian count in the Jedi Order at the time, nor will you ever find a source saying he did. If you want to try to prove it, be my guest.

Yoda's was highest. He was the most skilled/powerful in the Force. That's why he was Grandmaster of the Jedi Order for 400 years.