Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Who wins?

Surfer loses

Wow, here's a thread that pits both contestants at their best. ;P

Surfer is good at H2h?

Originally posted by kevdude
Surfer is good at H2h? Surfer has shown surprisingly good h2h skill at times, but I don't think he's beating Orion. I see this as yet another instance of Surfer being too durable to be that seriously hurt on the one hand, yet not skilled enough against this type of opponent to be able to look good or score winning points on the other hand...

...this also assumes Surfer is not amping. With amping...too nebulous to comment. As a comic book confrontation (not forum fight), I'd probably still have Orion coming out on top, if only to give the guy his due and/or make the fight interesting.

Orion.

orion 9/10

Orion.

Orion.

Surfer ftw


He already beat orion down with EASE mainly using h2h in the Hunger, which is cannon according to people on this forum.iirc he one shotted him.

Orion takes the majority

Is Silver Surfer allowed to amp and keep on amping?

Yes,surfer is allowed to amp

Orion 9-10/10 without SS amping himself

Originally posted by skyfather
Surfer ftw


He already beat orion down with EASE mainly using h2h in the Hunger, which is cannon according to people on this forum.iirc he one shotted him.

Crossovers aren't used in debate as regards combat feats. its in the rules...

Originally posted by skyfather
Surfer ftw


He already beat orion down with EASE mainly using h2h in the Hunger, which is cannon according to people on this forum.iirc he one shotted him.

I wouldn't use that example. Orion was very young at the time and inexperienced. Since then, Orion has grown more powerful. Surfer has too, so I'm not discarding that.

Silver Surfer.

Orion wrecks shop. Though, it will be a pain to do so.

Silver Surfer has shown that he can amp to vast degrees in the past. He can continuously siphon of energy from something such as a Star, transform it into Power Cosmic and amp himself or just do it directly with energy (This method though probably can overload him if he absorbs to much.).

I can see Orion winning, but I give it to Norrin.

So, can Orion amp himself, too? If so, it would be about even then.

Well, in this fight only Silver Surfer can amp himself.

Well, a severly weakened, non-PC powered Surfer held his own against the Hulk and a few other ppl. He has shown surprisingly good H2H abilities. Couple this with his ability to amp and I can definately see him taking a few wins.

Orion still wins tho, but 6/10.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Silver Surfer.
Seconded. At least 7/10.

Orion.

Orion can amp, it's part of the AF.

It's funny how everything about Surfer is overrated on this forum. From his 'insane' combat speed to his 'he is allowed to amp !?!! ohhh, he definitley takes a majority'.

haermm

orion

Orion

Yes. H2H Silver Surfer does not have enough showing to say he could take on Orion.

Orion ftw

Originally posted by kgkg
This forum? It's almost universal as far as Comic Book forum goes. ie. Hero Chat , CBR etc.

If anything KMC is moderate in it's portrayal of Surfer compare to other Comic Book sites.

U hit the nail right on the head there.

Originally posted by kgkg
This forum? It's almost universal as far as Comic Book forum goes. ie. Hero Chat , CBR etc.

If anything KMC is moderate in it's portrayal of Surfer compare to other Comic Book sites.

Actually, from what I've seen, Herochat is far less biased for Surfer compared to KMC. Many of them give Black Adam a majority over him, and though the majority agrees he beats Superman, they agree it wouldn't be a one-sided fight. With a few exceptions, they aren't using even half of the idiotic arguments used here, and though they have their share of fanboys (Azula comes to mind), this forum isn't lower when it comes to those either. Can't comment on CBR though, but I've heard they are pretty insane.

Originally posted by carver9
But everything that is mentioned here, silver surfer is capable of doing. You just say what you say because you dont like the character and how he manhandles your heros/villians.

If anything, kmc is underrating surfer by a large gap.

Originally posted by Raoul


I miss messing with you raoul. Let the games begin.

Originally posted by carver9
I miss messing with you raoul. Let the games begin.

i'm actually just curious to see what Philosophia's response will be...

Originally posted by Raoul
i'm actually just curious to see what Philosophia's response will be...

Your reponse was pretty much my reaction..

Also, I noticed that Carver went from trying to control his fanboysm, to a full-membership fanboy again, since he didn't get enough attention that way. I'd put the post where he admits that high-end Superman beats Thanos in my sig just for the lulz, but then again, my signature contains too much awesomness to be changed. uhuh

Originally posted by cloud102
Yes, I've been on Herochat for years and they're not as biased as this site. You have an even split between DC and Marvel biased cases.

BTW, don'y use Azula to represent Herochat. You have far greater fanboys!



Originally posted by carver9
I'm not a fan of any character except wolverine and I have nothing against superman. I'm going to continue to say this until you understand and get it through that philosophia brain of yours. Everything that I have said about superman has also been said about wonderwoman, Sentry, hyperion, etc...

It just tend to shine more with superman because KMC is based majority off of superman. Hell the guy has his own page on kmc and the people that I argue with about him has post all over that page.

his own page? or his own forum?

Originally posted by Raoul




his own page? or his own forum?

I meant forum. How about you visit some of the people that i have mentioned in my post threads and see if I have said everything similar to what I have said about superman. I'm a huge ass sentry fan but just like I said about superman combat speed, I say the same thing about Sentry, space flight means jack.

I just dont overrate these characters like a lot of you all do, especially if a writer say different about what you all are trying to use mathematics on.

Originally posted by carver9
I meant forum. How about you visit some of the people that i have mentioned in my post threads and see if I have said everything similar to what I have said about superman. I'm a huge ass sentry fan but just like I said about superman combat speed, I say the same thing about Sentry, space flight means jack.

I just dont overrate these characters like a lot of you all do, especially if a writer say different about what you all are trying to use mathematics on.

he got the forum because of his popularity. he's a world wide icon. not comics, or anything to do with feats.

you underrate them, imo.

what writers are you referring to?

and an inaccurate wizard bio doesn't count.

Originally posted by cloud102
Yes, I've been on Herochat for years and they're not as biased as this site. You have an even split between DC and Marvel biased cases.

BTW, don'y use Azula to represent Herochat. You have far greater fanboys!

I was talking about Surfer's case soley, not about the forums in general. Herochat is far more (Marvel) biased than this forum.

and please, carver, don't lie about the space thing again. space speed is space speed. you go lightspeed in space, its still lightspeed.

299,792,458 m/s

Originally posted by Raoul
he got the forum because of his popularity. he's a world wide icon. not comics, or anything to do with feats.

you underrate them, imo.

what writers are you referring to?

and an inaccurate wizard bio doesn't count.

Mcduffie and I cant think of his name but brian azzarelo (something like that). Hell, almost every superman writer has said this.

Originally posted by Raoul
and please, carver, don't lie about the space thing again. space speed is space speed. you go lightspeed in space, its still lightspeed.

299,792,458 m/s

Not when the writer simply said that superman can only achieve light speed in space.

Originally posted by carver9
Mcduffie and I cant think of his name but brian azzarelo (something like that). Hell, almost every superman writer has said this.

mcduffie's a hack.

has said what?

Originally posted by carver9
Not when the writer simply said that superman can only achieve light speed in space.

when was it stated?

if he can accelerate to that speed in space, and is unaffected by gravity (hence flight), then he can do it in the atmosphere. its common logic.

Originally posted by Raoul
mcduffie's a hack.

has said what?



when was it stated?

if he can accelerate to that speed in space, and is unaffected by gravity (hence flight), then he can do it in the atmosphere. its common logic.

Its not comic book knowledge, especially when superman has said this himself, that space=flight. I guess you dont remember when doomsday was on the moon and superman was racing to the moon to get him. Superman stated that on the moon, with its gravity, doomsday could cover it with little effort (something along those lines.).

Originally posted by carver9
Its not comic book knowledge, especially when superman has said this himself, that space=flight. I guess you dont remember when doomsday was on the moon and superman was racing to the moon to get him. Superman stated that on the moon, with its gravity, doomsday could cover it with little effort (something along those lines.).

huh? what do you mean space=flight?

how does the moon having less gravity apply to superman's travel speed?

Originally posted by Raoul
huh? what do you mean space=flight?

how does the moon having less gravity apply to superman's travel speed?

My bad, space=speed, someone was talking to me.

Originally posted by carver9
My bad, space=speed, someone was talking to me.

space does nothing to help acceleration.

superman's flight means that he can negate gravity if he wants.

therefore, if he can fly at that speed in space, he can do it on earth.

Originally posted by Raoul
space does nothing to help acceleration.

superman's flight means that he can negate gravity if he wants.

therefore, if he can fly at that speed in space, he can do it on earth.

Superman said this himself, along with dc writers. you cant argue at me about something that has been said on panel and against something that has been said by the person who is writing the character.

Originally posted by carver9
Superman said this himself, along with dc writers. you cant argue at me about something that has been said on panel and against something that has been said by the person who is writing the character.

where? post a scan for me. name the writers. name the issue.

Originally posted by Raoul
where? post a scan for me. name the writers. name the issue.

I told you, just post the scan where superman is racing to them moon and say that he flies off so fast that he think he could have left light ray behind.

I told you the writers and everyone know of this quote that he said, I cant believe that you dont know about it and you're a superman fan.

Originally posted by carver9
I told you, just post the scan where superman is racing to them moon and say that he flies off so fast that he think he could have left light ray behind.

I told you the writers and everyone know of this quote that he said, I cant believe that you dont know about it and you're a superman fan.

why can't you post it? i don't know the issue number.

Originally posted by Raoul
why can't you post it? i don't know the issue number.

I'm at work. Just take my word for it.

Originally posted by carver9
I'm at work. Just take my word for it.

i would if you didn't contradict yourself...

Originally posted by Raoul
i would if you didn't contradict yourself...

Lol, I kind of do that sometimes huh. Thats one thing that I'm trying to change.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol, I kind of do that sometimes huh. Thats one thing that I'm trying to change.

well, keep at it, and you might get somewhere...

Originally posted by Raoul
mcduffie's a hack.

has said what?



when was it stated?

if he can accelerate to that speed in space, and is unaffected by gravity (hence flight), then he can do it in the atmosphere. its common logic. no it's not. even light slows down in an atmosphere, light is only "light speed" in a total vacuum. a solid mass like superman would create more drag than photons would.

Originally posted by Raoul
well, keep at it, and you might get somewhere...

LOL, you see, post like this is the reason why we will be debating AGAINST each other for a long time (unless I get banned )

Originally posted by carver9
LOL, you see, post like this is the reason why we will be debating AGAINST each other for a long time (unless I get banned )

lol.

if you get banned, it won't be because of me...

orion 4/10

^ obviously, that's why someone felt it necessary to put the fight in orion's "favor".

Originally posted by psycho gundam
no it's not. even light slows down in an atmosphere, light is only "light speed" in a total vacuum. a solid mass like superman would create more drag than photons would.

doesn't that mean supes creates a field around himself to negate his mass?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
^ obviously, that's why someone felt it necessary to put the fight in orion's "favor".

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

Originally posted by Allankles
doesn't that mean supes creates a field around himself to negate his mass? don't jump to conclusions.

He is serious.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
don't jump to conclusions.

If DC uses real world models for objects moving towards c, then you'd have all these ftl guys having to generate fields to negate their mass, allowing for FTL movement i.e. being in atmosphere wouldn't matter.

The Flash's have the speed force, Supes may generate his own aura that affects mass, based on his comments about his movement in atmosphere.

you do realize that you can't just say that and go with it right?

flash (and other manipulators of the speed force) are the exeptions concerning lightspeed being a wall for solid masses.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
you do realize that you can't just say that and go with it right?

This is hypothetical, and would be necessary if DC uses real world models for objects moving towards c. As far Supes comments go, he did say he willfully controls his speed in atmosphere, he never suggested that the atmosphere inhibits his speed.

Another theory in DC is that he controls gravitons, if this is the case, he could very well be creating a graviton field of soughts that would essentially allow him to make himself massless or otherwise accroding to what he wanted to accomplish when approaching C.

i'm just saying not to add powers to a guy to fill in the gaps.

writer error/not giving a crap is far more likely.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i'm just saying not to add powers to a guy to fill in the gaps.

writer error/not giving a crap is far more likely.

The graviton thing was speculation made in a story.

I do realize writers don't give a crap a lot of the time.

surfer can get his power cosmic he stiill loses then ORION kills galactus
speaking of galactus BRB will kill him

riiiiight.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
no it's not. even light slows down in an atmosphere, light is only "light speed" in a total vacuum. a solid mass like superman would create more drag than photons would.

not the point.

superman wouldn't slow down, as he's unaffected by gravity when he chooses not to be.

if he can accelerate to speed x in space, he can do it on earth, as he's unaffected by gravity.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i'm just saying not to add powers to a guy to fill in the gaps.

writer error/not giving a crap is far more likely.

it's differing opinion, actually. some writers show him having no effect, some choose to mention that he would have an effect and talk about him refusing to accelerate past certain speeds.

Originally posted by Raoul
not the point.

superman wouldn't slow down, as he's unaffected by gravity when he chooses not to be.

if he can accelerate to speed x in space, he can do it on earth, as he's unaffected by gravity.


I think that gundam is referring to the fact that space is a vacuum(near vacuum at least) an so their is less friction and drag slowing u down than in atmosphere.

Originally posted by Naija boy
I think that gundam is referring to the fact that space is a vacuum(near vacuum at least) an so their is less friction and drag slowing u down than in atmosphere.

yeah. i know. i'm just saying it doesn't apply to someone who wouldn't be affected by such forces...

Originally posted by psycho gundam
^ obviously, that's why someone felt it necessary to put the fight in orion's "favor".

Most of the time the fights are in Marvels favor, taking away most of DS powers then having him fight 5 Thor level beings or always making it PreRect Beyonder vs.

Orion

Originally posted by Raoul
yeah. i know. i'm just saying it doesn't apply to someone who wouldn't be affected by such forces...
Everyone is affected by gravity, Flash included.

That's why he can't randomly fly around and needs to run everywhere, instead.



Supes might subconsciously, psionically will his cellular structure to zero mass in order to achieve light speed and beyond. I remember MoS #30 him being surprised he could still breathe and talk in space after having the wind knocked out of him. He rationalized that the deep breath he took while in the atmosphere must have fully oxygenized his blood cells so that he didn't need another breath. And we already know how his cells process solar energy to give him his powers, nuclear-reactor style. And that he can become intangible (no mass?) via vibrating...*shrug*





Anywho, more on topic, Surfer KO's Orion to the domepiece.

the same surfer that cudnt go hand to hand against black panther?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the same surfer that cudnt go hand to hand against black panther?
No, the same Surfer that was physically stalemating an amped Champion, overpowering Hulk (on more than one occasion), and floored both Skaar and Ravenous with casual ease.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Everyone is affected by gravity, Flash included.

That's why he can't randomly fly around and needs to run everywhere, instead.

i was referring to Superman...

Originally posted by Enyalus
No, the same Surfer that was physically stalemating an amped Champion, overpowering Hulk (on more than one occasion), and floored both Skaar and Ravenous with casual ease.

so it isnt the same surfer who cudnt get out of a lock from black panther then?

it wud have been impressive if he cud have don sumthing against world war hulk

Originally posted by Raoul
i was referring to Superman...
I said everyone, Raoul. So yes, that includes Superman. Your fanboyism is getting out of hand now, excluding Kal from the inclusive pronoun 'everyone.' Sheesh.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I said everyone, Raoul. So yes, that includes Superman. Your fanboyism is getting out of hand now, excluding Kal from the inclusive pronoun 'everyone.' Sheesh.

weak.

he's unaffected by gravity when he flexes whatever muscle makes him fly...

Originally posted by Raoul
he's unaffected by gravity when he flexes whatever muscle makes him fly...
Nooo, he's strong enough to overcome the effects of gravity. Gravity still acts and pulls on him and thus slows him down, to whatever infinitesimal degree.

Gravity acts on everything. Right now, Raoul, you're being attracted to me. And I'm attracted to you. (Oooh.)

It just so happens that the Earth is more massive than either of us, and that overpowers our gravitational attraction to each other and acts on us instead.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the same surfer that cudnt go hand to hand against black panther? That falls under the PIS rule.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
so it isnt the same surfer who cudnt get out of a lock from black panther then?

it wud have been impressive if he cud have don sumthing against world war hulk

That's was PIS.

Did you not read the issue where a Silver Surfer, weaker than his ever been, cut off from the Power Cosmic, and only had the base strength and durability his silver coating provided, was beating the crap out of Hulk and his Warbound and would have killed them all if he came at them again as stated?

The only thing that saved them was the spear to the obedience disk, and then Hulk repeatedly pounded on Silver Surfer to no avail, as he got up without so much a scratch, removed the obedience disks and went on his way.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Seconded. At least 7/10.

We seem to be a part of the few who understand how powerful Norrin really is.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That's was PIS.

Did you not read the issue where a Silver Surfer, weaker than his ever been, cut off from the Power Cosmic, and only had the base strength and durability his silver coating provided, was beating the crap out of Hulk and his Warbound and would have killed them all if he came at them again as stated?

The only thing that saved them was the spear to the obedience disk, and then Hulk repeatedly pounded on Silver Surfer to no avail, as he got up without so much a scratch, removed the obedience disks and went on his way.

people just cant a joke these days can they?

having said that, orion STILL wins.

Orion wins.

orion

Originally posted by Enyalus
Nooo, he's strong enough to overcome the effects of gravity. Gravity still acts and pulls on him and thus slows him down, to whatever infinitesimal degree.

Gravity acts on everything. Right now, Raoul, you're being attracted to me. And I'm attracted to you. (Oooh.)

It just so happens that the Earth is more massive than either of us, and that overpowers our gravitational attraction to each other and acts on us instead.



even if you want to take it by that rationale, he has little if any trouble counteracting the effects of gravity, so i don't see a problem with him hitting that speed in the atmosphere if he wanted to.

there's a such thing as necessity, you know...

This is neither here nor there, but even light doesn't go lightspeed in the atmosphere. Only in a vacuum.