Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

who wins?

Mohawk >>>>> horse face

Glads ftw.

bill packs more of a puch...brb ftw

Good fight, i think after a long battle Bill would smash Kal.

Gladiator > BRB (false skull god)

This is a good fight and both are as even as you can get. 5/5 split

Originally posted by carver9
This is a good fight and both are as even as you can get. 5/5 split

Can't agree more

beta ray bill ft kill

It depends.

Gladiator at one point can crush Stars, shatter planets, contain a Supernova etc. He is beyond most characters, but in another issue, he is stalemated by Colossus to an extent etc.

It really does depend on how he is written.

More often than not Beta Ray Bill wins, as Gladiator is more often written worse than he truly is.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It depends.

Gladiator at one point can crush Stars, shatter planets, contain a Supernova etc. He is beyond most characters, but in another issue, he is stalemated by Colossus to an extent etc.

It really does depend on how he is written.

More often than not Beta Ray Bill wins, as Gladiator is more often written worse than he truly is.

Colossus back then was demonstrated by marvel as being an immovable, unstoppable force. He was giving juggernaut a fight back then and withstood blast that even dropped the hulk.

Gladiator at his prime is a beast and everything that you said about him is true.

Originally posted by carver9
Colossus back then was demonstrated by marvel as being an immovable, unstoppable force. He was giving juggernaut a fight back then and withstood blast that even dropped the hulk.

Gladiator at his prime is a beast and everything that you said about him is true.

Colossus was weaker back then than he is know technically.

Either way someone like Gladiator should crush him. He was just hanging with someone like Juggernaut, and Juggernaut wasn't exactly the unstoppable force back then as he is know.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Colossus was weaker back then than he is know technically.

Either way someone like Gladiator should crush him. He was just hanging with someone like Juggernaut, and Juggernaut wasn't exactly the unstoppable force back then as he is know.

Colossus was weaker back then but the writers forgot about that when they were writing him, especially during secret wars. Juggernaut has better showings in the past then what he has up to date. You barely see juggernaut in a book these days, its hard to place him in a comic due to his durability and strength.

Originally posted by carver9
Colossus was weaker back then but the writers forgot about that when they were writing him, especially during secret wars. Juggernaut has better showings in the past then what he has up to date. You barely see juggernaut in a book these days, its hard to place him in a comic due to his durability and strength.

Juggernaut has horrible showings back then compared to his more recent ones. I've seen him burnt, hurt, kicked back by the likes of Cyclops etc.

Current Juggernaut, can match even the strongest top tiers in strength, is invulnerable and for most intents and purposes unstoppable.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Juggernaut has horrible showings back then compared to his more recent ones. I've seen him burnt, hurt, kicked back by the likes of Cyclops etc.

Current Juggernaut, can match even the strongest top tiers in strength, is invulnerable and for most intents and purposes unstoppable.

Everything you said, I agree with but his highest showings was shown in the past and everyone has low showings, even the almighty galactus have those.

Juggernaut has always been described as having unlimited strength, even back then.

BRB

Originally posted by carver9
Everything you said, I agree with but his highest showings was shown in the past and everyone has low showings, even the almighty galactus have those.

Juggernaut has always been described as having unlimited strength, even back then.

Galactus has a huge plot device in play, mainly being his hunger. Back in the day he was also written a lot worse than he is know but some of those were retconned.

Characters like Gladiator also have it. His confidence is a way to explain bad showings, as is the Sentry's mental stability.

Juggernaut has a lot more low showings in the past, while more recently he has been more consistent. In the last few decades, Juggernaut has been described and has been shown as unstoppable, invulnerable etc. for all his showings except a few occasions.

I don't recall Juggernaut being described as having unlimited strength. Especially not back in the day, when someone like Colossus has hung with him. It's not true either way.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Galactus has a huge plot device in play, mainly being his hunger. Back in the day he was also written a lot worse than he is know but some of those were retconned.

Characters like Gladiator also have it. His confidence is a way to explain bad showings, as is the Sentry's mental stability.

Juggernaut has a lot more low showings in the past, while more recently he has been more consistent. In the last few decades, Juggernaut has been described and has been shown as unstoppable, invulnerable etc. for all his showings except a few occasions.

I don't recall Juggernaut being described as having unlimited strength. Especially not back in the day, when someone like Colossus has hung with him. It's not true either way.

It was stated that he had unlimited strength when he went back to the cave to talk to cytorrak about granting him his powers and cytorrak was telling cain that the true person that was SUPPOSE to be the juggernaut was professor xavier. Thats not the only time it has been mentioned though.

He does have unlimited strength and invulnerability. Everyone that he has fought, he has overpowered, even hulk.

He doesn't have unlimited strength or invulnerability.

I've seen Hulk overpower him and swing around like a rag doll. He doesn't have unlimited strength and neither does the Hulk. The Hulk has potential for near unlimited strength.

Juggernaut is also immune to conventional forces and invulnerable to most types of attacks, but he doesn't posses unlimited invulnerability. No one is truly invulnerable, and that includes Juggernaut and Cytorrak.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He doesn't have unlimited strength or invulnerability.

I've seen Hulk overpower him and swing around like a rag doll. He doesn't have unlimited strength and neither does the Hulk. The Hulk has potential for near unlimited strength.

Juggernaut is also immune to conventional forces and invulnerable to most types of attacks, but he doesn't posses unlimited invulnerability. No one is truly invulnerable, and that includes Juggernaut and Cytorrak.

Show me hulk over powering him, it has never happened, unless you're talking about war hulk who was powered by celestial tek. He stopped juggernaut but never over powered him. The tek that apocalypse got from the celestial put hulk at the peak of his strength.

The only thing that can damage juggernaut is magic, nothing more. I dont know where you got that from.

Bill pounds his mohawk off.

Originally posted by Charmander
Bill pounds his mohawk off.

Not happening, if anything, they're equals. Both has demonstrated planet destroying abilities and both is as powerful as someone in there tier could get. If there was anyone else fighting these two that are in there tier, I would give them them the majority without a doubt.

Originally posted by carver9
Not happening, if anything, they're equals. Both has demonstrated planet destroying abilities and both is as powerful as someone in there tier could get. If there was anyone else fighting these two that are in there tier, I would give them them the majority without a doubt. Right...

Anyway, Bill wins.

Originally posted by carver9
Show me hulk over powering him, it has never happened, unless you're talking about war hulk who was powered by celestial tek. He stopped juggernaut but never over powered him. The tek that apocalypse got from the celestial put hulk at the peak of his strength.

The only thing that can damage juggernaut is magic, nothing more. I dont know where you got that from.

I've seen Hulk swing Juggernaut around and toss him around before and it wasn't War Hulk.

Juggernaut can be harmed by other things besides magic.

There are forces in the Universe greater than that what powers Juggernaut. He only posses a part of Cytorrak's power and has been harmed before by objects that are non mystical.

Let Galactus blast him, and all that will be left of Juggernaut is a stain on the carpet. There are plenty of forces that are non mystical that exceed that enchantment of Cytorrak that is empowered with only a part of his power.

I hate it when someone says Cain is immune to physical damage or some such. No one is truly immune to physical damage, unless you are some sort of Abstract etc.

Even the likes of Galactus has been harmed physically when sufficient force has been exerted.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I've seen Hulk swing Juggernaut around and toss him around before and it wasn't War Hulk.

Juggernaut can be harmed by other things besides magic.

There are forces in the Universe greater than that what powers Juggernaut. He only posses a part of Cytorrak's power and has been harmed before by objects that are non mystical.

Let Galactus blast him, and all that will be left of Juggernaut is a stain on the carpet. There are plenty of forces that are non mystical that exceed that enchantment of Cytorrak that is empowered with only a part of his power.

I hate it when someone says Cain is immune to physical damage or some such. No one is truly immune to physical damage, unless you are some sort of Abstract etc.

Even the likes of Galactus has been harmed physically when sufficient force has been exerted.

How about you show me juggernaut being hurt physically. I agree, I hate when people say it too but its the truth and it makes the character boring (even though hes the shit). The exemplers failed, thor had to get rid of juggernauts powers to even pose a threat to him. The entire xmen has failed and only resort to psy blasting him. Magic is the key of damaging juggernaut and that is only temporary due to his UNLIMITED healing factor.

I never said that hulk could lift the juggernaut, I said that he cant over power the juggernaut.

Bill ftw at least 7-8/10

Originally posted by carver9
How about you show me juggernaut being hurt physically. I agree, I hate when people say it too but its the truth and it makes the character boring (even though hes the shit). The exemplers failed, thor had to get rid of juggernauts powers to even pose a threat to him. The entire xmen has failed and only resort to psy blasting him. Magic is the key of damaging juggernaut and that is only temporary due to his UNLIMITED healing factor.

I never said that hulk could lift the juggernaut, I said that he cant over power the juggernaut.

Juggernaut is not immune to physical force and practically no one in comics is.

Do you realize that it doesn't even make a lick of sense?

According to that, all the Abstracts can pound on Juggernaut, and he wouldn't have a scratch. You could toss him in front of the Big Bang, and he wouldn't be hurt etc.

No one is truly immune to physical force. Someone like Juggernaut isn't even close to that. His master isn't even all powerful and all uses a portion of his power to enchant him.

I have not seen one instance where it says Cain is immune to physical force. He is invulnerable, to conventional forces etc. Invulnerable than most top tiers true, but saying his immune to physical force etc. or something along those lines is stupid.

How can you even proof that Juggernaut is immune to physical force?

It doesn't make a lick of sense. Anyone who says that, should take a step back, and look at how stupid it sounds.

I've seen Juggernaut hurt physically before. You want scans?

Just ask.

I can think of 3 events just off the top of my head, when non mystical forces were in play.

Thor had to cut of the Juggernaut's power to even pose a threat to him?

Lol!

Did you miss the part where a severely weakened Thor stopped him?

It is harder to damage physically than it is with magic but it isn't impossible. Someone like Galactus would easily turn Cain into a smear.

Plenty of beings can damage Cain through non mystical means. Any being superior to Cytorrak and in turn the enchantment that only has a portion of his power (Even Thor has overcome it.), should pulverize Cain through non mystical methods.

What would you describe the Hulk doing when he swings Cain around and tosses him around?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Juggernaut is not immune to physical force and practically no one in comics is.

Do you realize that it doesn't even make a lick of sense?

According to that, all the Abstracts can pound on Juggernaut, and he wouldn't have a scratch. You could toss him in front of the Big Bang, and he wouldn't be hurt etc.

No one is truly immune to physical force. Someone like Juggernaut isn't even close to that. His master isn't even all powerful and all uses a portion of his power to enchant him.

I have not seen one instance where it says Cain is immune to physical force. He is invulnerable, to conventional forces etc. Invulnerable than most top tiers true, but saying his immune to physical force etc. or something along those lines is stupid.

How can you even proof that Juggernaut is immune to physical force?

It doesn't make a lick of sense. Anyone who says that, should take a step back, and look at how stupid it sounds.

I've seen Juggernaut hurt physically before. You want scans?

Just ask.

I can think of 3 events just off the top of my head, when non mystical forces were in play.

Thor had to cut of the Juggernaut's power to even pose a threat to him?

Lol!

Did you miss the part where a severely weakened Thor stopped him?

It is harder to damage physically than it is with magic but it isn't impossible. Someone like Galactus would easily turn Cain into a smear.

Plenty of beings can damage Cain through non mystical means. Any being superior to Cytorrak and in turn the enchantment that only has a portion of his power (Even Thor has overcome it.), should pulverize Cain through non mystical methods.

What would you describe the Hulk doing when he swings Cain around and tosses him around?

Do you know the reason why cytorrak was placed inside the gem. There was no force that could truly get past his invulnerability. They had to ambush him, he ruled over all and they imprisoned him for it. Its not cytorraks power that gave him ruling it was his strength and durability. Look at Trion, he was so strong, he was punching through dimensions.

You wont find a scan of juggernaut being hurt without magic because it never happened. Cytorrak didnt have a cap on his strength, so 1% of his strength to the juggernaut should easily put him in thors, hulk range of strength.

lol

Originally posted by Charmander
lol

That was funny huh

not anymore

Originally posted by Charmander
not anymore

LOL

Originally posted by carver9
Do you know the reason why cytorrak was placed inside the gem. There was no force that could truly get past his invulnerability. They had to ambush him, he ruled over all and they imprisoned him for it. Its not cytorraks power that gave him ruling it was his strength and durability. Look at Trion, he was so strong, he was punching through dimensions.

There was no force that could get past his ability and he ruled over all?



You mean to say he rules in his own dimension and was in control over Earth for a period of itme, and the Earth bound beings of that time could not harm him.

The way you phrase it, neither Galactus, Living Tribunal, or TOAA could get past his invulnerability.

It's not that no force could get past his invulnerability, it's just that no force powerful enough ever bothered to try.

Here is one instance of Juggernaut being hurt, physically. He says it himself. I find this instance the most amusing out of the others. I can probably think of 2 other instances off the top of my head.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/th_HurtJuggernaut.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
You wont find a scan of juggernaut being hurt without magic because it never happened. Cytorrak didnt have a cap on his strength, so 1% of his strength to the juggernaut should easily put him in thors, hulk range of strength.

I'm not disputing the fact that Juggernaut can hang with the likes of Thor, Superman, Hulk which he can, I'm disputing the fact that you said, he has unlimited strength, which Juggernaut obviously does not have.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
There was no force that could get past his ability and he ruled over all?



You mean to say he rules in his own dimension and was in control over Earth for a period of itme, and the Earth bound beings of that time could not harm him.

The way you phrase it, neither Galactus, Living Tribunal, or TOAA could get past his invulnerability.

It's not that no force could get past his invulnerability, it's just that no force powerful enough ever bothered to try.

Here is one instance of Juggernaut being hurt, physically. He says it himself. I find this instance the most amusing out of the others. I can probably think of 2 other instances off the top of my head.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/th_HurtJuggernaut.jpg



I'm not disputing the fact that Juggernaut can hang with the likes of Thor, Superman, Hulk which he can, I'm disputing the fact that you said, he has unlimited strength, which Juggernaut obviously does not have.

Bad scan and I didnt see any physical damage. I knew you was going to use that lame scan. you might as well put up the scan where beast took his helmet off and he depowered. LOL.

You fail to realize that juggernaut doesnt have a cap on his strength and he can dip into cytorrak strength reserves anytime he wants.

Originally posted by carver9
Bad scan and I didnt see any physical damage. I knew you was going to use that lame scan. you might as well put up the scan where beast took his helmet off and he depowered. LOL.

You fail to realize that juggernaut doesnt have a cap on his strength and he can dip into cytorrak strength reserves anytime he wants.

You didn't see any physical damage?

That's because he was covering his face with hands from the pain.

Can you not read?

He clearly says and I quote "Curse you Goblin. You've hurt me."

Black Tom even confirms it by saying "That he has".

Juggernaut can dip into Cytorrak's strength reserve anytime he wants?



When has this happened?

I see this fight going down like the Gladiator/Masterson Thor fight went down, without the PIS Living Lightning.



Glads more often than not.

Gladiator.

While they are comparable in strength/durability, and Bill debatabley has the high offensive output, I'd say the superior speed would give Gladiator the win.

Well Beta Ray Bill can create Force Fields, and his reaction time should be impressive as he does posses some of the power of Thor.

Gladiator.

Magic hammers >>> chest letters

Originally posted by Scoobless
Magic hammers >>> chest letters
But razor sharp mohawks > magic hammers.

Originally posted by Enyalus
But razor sharp mohawks > magic hammers.
Touche ........ But you forgot that Horse teeth >>>>>>> Purple skin!

Check and mate my good sir.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Touche ........ But you forgot that Horse teeth >>>>>>> Purple skin!

Check and mate my good sir.
You're failing to account for the fact that blue penis (Dr. Manhattan reference) >> TOAA. And that the color purple > the color blue. So by the transitive property, purple penis (Gladiator) >>> TOAA, and thus Gladiator >>>>> BRB.

Eny are u saying that Masterson Thor is equal to brb?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Eny are u saying that Masterson Thor is equal to brb?
According to the issue I was refering to, Masterson Thor had exactly the same power/strength as Thor. Just less experienced.

I'm saying their fight would break down the same way. Gladiator owned Masterson with both strength and speed until the Living Lightning deal. Same thing would happen here without PIS.

Originally posted by Enyalus
According to the issue I was refering to, Masterson Thor had exactly the same power/strength as Thor. Just less experienced.

I'm saying their fight would break down the same way. Gladiator owned Masterson with both strength and speed until the Living Lightning deal. Same thing would happen here without PIS.

I disagree with this, Bill doesnt hold back ANYTHING and he's going for the kill immediately. Both are ruthless and both are comparable in power. 5/5 split.

Originally posted by carver9
I disagree with this, Bill doesnt hold back ANYTHING and he's going for the kill immediately.
Why's he going for the kill immediately? Did you read the SI: BRB Aftermath one-shot? He straight up says its wrong to kill and that he only does so to protect others. And even admits that that's an imperfect decision on his part.

Gladiator, on the other hand, usually has no issues with kicking someone's ass and taking names later.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Why's he going for the kill immediately? Did you read the SI: BRB Aftermath one-shot? He straight up says its wrong to kill and that he only does so to protect others. And even admits that that's an imperfect decision on his part.

Gladiator, on the other hand, usually has no issues with kicking someone's ass and taking names later.

But he destroyed two planets that he didnt even know had life on it or not. On panel proof shows that he doesnt hold back, no matter what he said on panel.

Originally posted by carver9
On panel proof shows that he doesnt hold back, no matter what he said on panel.
^ This confuses me greatly. Furthermore, it should also confound you.

Originally posted by Enyalus
^ This confuses me greatly. Furthermore, it should also confound you.

He has taken a planet full of life twice.

Originally posted by Enyalus
^ This confuses me greatly. Furthermore, it should also confound you.

hysterical