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We dunno when we're ending. Last I checked, the judges were Psycho Gundam and Leo and another one pending.

Anyways, no outside interference plz. This is meant to be a one on one debate type shenanigan.

Uh... fight in some solar system? I have no preference really, just figured neutral territory would be best.

Cool with me. I've never done an official debate or battlezone, so you start it off.

Cool.

Black Bolt for the majority.

He holds a ridiculous edge in versatility here, and has maybe one loss in his entire career to a brick. Majestic's a tad more versatile compared to your average brick, but not by much. Black Bolt, on the other hand, can do a million and one things through electron control, including shields, amping his stats and using his voice.

He's also plenty ruthless right now, so he shouldn't have any CIS-related problems.

Mmkay. I'm taking Majestic for the clear majority.

He's much stronger, even when compared to the Hulks and Gladiators that BB has faced in the past. He's faster. He's got faster reaction time. Probably more durable. He's got planetary-scale molecular manipulation and energy manipulation abilities, and even reality-warping powers. To boot, his martial arts skills have been honed by more than four thousand years of near-constant warfare and were sufficient enough to easily defeat three pure-blooded Kheran Coda assassins at the same time.

He's got everything needed to take Black Bolt down.




EDIT: Is BB's voice sonic in nature or electron-manipulated? I've heard both.

It's electron manipulation, that's tied in to the speech portion of his brain. Whoever said it's sonic based is wrong.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It's electron manipulation, that's tied in to the speech portion of his brain. Whoever said it's sonic based is wrong.
Cool by me. I just happened to have a scan of him pretty much shrugging off a sonic attack. Ah well.

That would be because of his durability.

Anybody that's not me and Eny, out of the thread plz.

Anyways... Originally posted by Enyalus
Mmkay. I'm taking Majestic for the clear majority.

He's much stronger, even when compared to the Hulks and Gladiators that BB has faced in the past. He's faster. He's got faster reaction time. Probably more durable. He's got planetary-scale molecular manipulation and energy manipulation abilities, and even reality-warping powers. To boot, his martial arts skills have been honed by more than four thousand years of near-constant warfare and were sufficient enough to easily defeat three pure-blooded Kheran Coda assassins at the same time.

He's got everything needed to take Black Bolt down.




EDIT: Is BB's voice sonic in nature or electron-manipulated? I've heard both.

Black Bolt has Hulk-level strength when he's unamped.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g126/SpunkySmurph/Marvel/StrengthNamor.jpg

There he one-shots Namor into a hydro-electric dam...

And in that instance, he couldn't amp. His antenna was busted (iirc), and he couldn't use his electron-based powers.

Namor didn't show for the rest of the fight.

He regularly pulls off feats like those with no mention of amping, and yet we know he can amp his strength to ridiculous degrees. If need be, he can pour his entire electron supply into a single punch for the "master blow", and Black Bolt reportedly possesses a power supply sufficient to power Attilan, his super-advanced Inhuman city, for the next 10 millenia.

That's a lot of juice.

None of this matters, really, because there's no need for Majestic to get close to Blackagar. BB can throw up an electron shield, or even incase Majestros in such a field, as he's done to Hulk, and then just speak.

A whisper has KO'd Gladiator.
A whisper has KO'd Hulk.

Black Bolt can scream if he needs.

I haven't even really touched on all the other tricks he can pull off... mess with the electron flow in your brain/nerves, rearrange matter, create anti-matter...

Black Bolt's versatility wins this all day long.

I'll judge

Oops, didn't know this was the actually vs. thread.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Black Bolt has Hulk-level strength when he's unamped.
Are you using that Namor scan as proof of that, or is it stated/shown elsewhere?

Originally posted by Original Smurph
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g126/SpunkySmurph/Marvel/StrengthNamor.jpg

There he one-shots Namor into a hydro-electric dam...

And in that instance, he couldn't amp. His antenna was busted (iirc), and he couldn't use his electron-based powers.

Namor didn't show for the rest of the fight.

Nice scan. But, he gets rocked backwards from a punch by Thing. And Namor is nowhere near the Hulk's or Majestic's level.

Durability-wise, Maj has taken a shot directly to the face from Maul before, without so much as flinching:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Majestros_weapons2.jpg

And strengthwise, Namor/Hulk/Thing/etc. are no where close. How about moving all of the planets in the solar system, as well as catching and redirecting a comet, as well as casually moving around the largest asteroids in the asteroid belt (most of which are made purely of iron ore...meaning they're friggin' heavy.)

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Majestic_str_moon1.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Majestic_str_comet1.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Majestic_str_mercury1.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Majestic_str_asteroid_lv.jpg

And a more recent example has him explicitly moving the Earth back onto its axis, proving those earlier feats of his and his strength hasn't been retconned:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Majestic_Earthmoving.jpg

Originally posted by Original Smurph
None of this matters, really, because there's no need for Majestic to get close to Blackagar. BB can throw up an electron shield, or even incase Majestros in such a field, as he's done to Hulk, and then just speak.
That's assuming Majestic is standing still or that Black Bolt will be fast enough to track/react to encasing him in that field. Which he won't be.

Majestic's so fast he basically appears to be in four different places on Earth at the same time (1), sustained FTL speeds for four straight months without stopping (2-3), was so fast that he appeared to be everywhere at once (4), and has on-panel nanosecond H2H speed (5).

1. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Majestic_speed1.jpg
2. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Majestic_speed2.jpg
3. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Majestic_speed3.jpg
4. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Majestic_speed4.jpg
5. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Majestic_nanoreact.jpg

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Black Bolt can scream if he needs.
BB is so not screaming. A whisper, sure. Even when he was being tortured by skrulls and his family was in danger, he only let out a whisper. Not in his character to scream.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
I haven't even really touched on all the other tricks he can pull off... mess with the electron flow in your brain/nerves, rearrange matter, create anti-matter...
Kherans have a different nervous system makeup (I have scans if you want/need proof), which I'm sure would throw BB off. He's also resisted fairly high-end magical matter manipulation.

Since we're using current versions (I would guess), that would also mean that standard equipment is in play. And Majestic's standard equipment is Kheran warlord armor, creation engine blade (capable of slicing through anything, sharp enough to shave the rough edges off of an electron), and whatever the hell this electrical disruption mace thingy is (2):

1. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Majestros_weapons1.jpg
2. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Majestros_weapons3.jpg

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Black Bolt's versatility wins this all day long.

Nah. Majestros speedblitzes FTW:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Majestic_Kherawarlord1.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Majestic_Kherawarlord2.jpg

(Joking. Funny, right?)

I'll continue this tomorrow. Gotta catch some sleep now. We got off to a fairly slow start, so I reckon we should keep it going for a few days unless you're busy for all of them?

I'll be around. Rest up.

Originally posted by Enyalus

Are you using that Namor scan as proof of that, or is it stated/shown elsewhere?



Extremely close second to Hulk -
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g126/SpunkySmurph/Marvel/Strength1.jpg

H2H against Gladiator
http://img158.exs.cx/img158/3928/gladss0fq.jpg
http://img232.exs.cx/img232/7655/gladss25uv.jpg

He has a variety of other h2h feats against some top tiers. I know he's come to blows with Gladiator, Thor, Hulk and others a few times. I'm not trying to say that he's on Majestic's strength level, but when a much older version of him is an extremely close second with what I believe is Savage Hulk, and knowing that Black Bolt can amp his electron supply into his strength, it's undeniable that Majestic will be feeling his punches if he decides to trade fisticuffs temporarily. I really don't know why he would, but I'm just saying that he's far from outgunned.

A bit about his electron supply...

http://img285.imageshack.us/my.php?image=power21fb2ur.jpg

He can draw on enough power to supply Attilan for many millenia.

Just the thought of that much power is difficult to work your head around, knowing he can put as much as he likes to power up his punches, his speed and his numerous powers.

Proof that his speed is reliant as well...

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/4600/blackboltfeat44jj.th.gif
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2076/blackboltfeat57cr.th.gif

Maelstrom is top notch difficulty, and Black Bolt just faced him. Here, he doesn't catch up to the missile right away because he's so fatigued. It does seem to be a globe-spanning distance, considering I believe that's flying from the arctic (did I read that right?) to Attilan, in Tibet, in a few panels.

Note that Black Bolt's suffering from "mind-numbing" fatigue... no such difficulties here.

Finally, that was a very early Black Bolt, whose electron supply was nowhere near as massive as it is now.

Anyways... back to the strength feat re: Namor.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Nice scan. But, he gets rocked backwards from a punch by Thing. And Namor is nowhere near the Hulk's or Majestic's level. Gets rocked back by Thing in that fight? Meh, as I said, he had no access to his usual power set, had recently come from a fight with Thor (iirc, it was a fight with someone that had konked out his powers), and was facing the Inhumans, The F4 and Namor simultaneously. Getting hit by Thing isn't so bad.

Here's the result of maybe his first showing against Thing...

http://img182.exs.cx/img182/4141/vsthing34ff.jpg

Originally posted by Enyalus
And strengthwise, Namor/Hulk/Thing/etc. are no where close. How about moving all of the planets in the solar system, as well as catching and redirecting a comet, as well as casually moving around the largest asteroids in the asteroid belt (most of which are made purely of iron ore...meaning they're friggin' heavy.)Gladiator, who Black Bolt has matched in h2h combat, has destroyed planets with his punches.

And Majestic took years to accomplish all of that. We don't really have an idea of how long he needed to accomplish each of those things.


That's assuming Majestic is standing still or that Black Bolt will be fast enough to track/react to encasing him in that field. Which he won't be.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Majestic's so fast he basically appears to be in four different places on Earth at the same time (1), sustained FTL speeds for four straight months without stopping (2-3), was so fast that he appeared to be everywhere at once (4), and has on-panel nanosecond H2H speed (5).

1. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Majestic_speed1.jpg
2. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Majestic_speed2.jpg
3. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Majestic_speed3.jpg
4. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Majestic_speed4.jpg
5. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Majestic_nanoreact.jpg 1. He's clearly not doing all of that at once... unless the people/planes/etc that he's holding in the scan are being disintegrated by the speeds that he's moving them at?

2. Yeah, which is an impressive endurance feat. Note that he's not actually doing all the mechanical work, as he's attached to a machine. It's unquantifiable at best.

4. Good, not really good enough. There, he moves faster than people can percieve. Here, he needs to move faster than Black Bolt can think to make an electron shield. Black Bolt, who possesses super speed of his own (though I won't claim it's at all on par- it doesn't need to be)

5. In this case, he was prepared to ambush Hadrian after he had gotten wrecked in their fight last time (iirc). It's not his usual fight reaction. Plus, I don't recall Spartan being nano-second fast, and he beat Majestros pretty bad in the scan that that fight leads in to.

There's only one actual combat feat there, it's only one punch (nothing Black Bolt couldn't easily recover from), and it gets directly contradicted in a later post.

Speed? meh.

Originally posted by Enyalus
BB is so not screaming. A whisper, sure. Even when he was being tortured by skrulls and his family was in danger, he only let out a whisper. Not in his character to scream. Yes, because screaming would either put his family/friends in danger, or would be used as a skrull weapon.

Recently he's decimated entire fleets of skrull warriors, ruthlessly. Majestic is just another alien trying to subjugate/kill him... Black Bolt would certainly use his voice. Perhaps not an initial voice attack, because royalty simply doesn't conduct that way, but it's happened in the past.

The fact is, while Black Bolt's been tortured and enslaved in the past, he's never really been put in a life or death situation where he could freely speak if he needed to without worrying about collateral damage.

Do you really think that if it looked at all like Black Bolt was going to lose, that he wouldn't do whatever it takes to live?

He'd speak or scream if necessary. We haven't seen it before, but that just makes it more ominous- if a whisper knocked out Hulk, and a whisper knocked out Gladiator, what is an attack that is unfathomably more powerful going to be capable of doing?

Black Bolt will do what he needs to for the sake of his people. That includes keeping himself alive, and that is all ingrained far more deeply in his character than any reservations about screaming.

Originally posted by Enyalus

Kherans have a different nervous system makeup (I have scans if you want/need proof), which I'm sure would throw BB off. He's also resisted fairly high-end magical matter manipulation. As long as their nervous system somehow involves the flow of ions and electrons, Black Bolt can disrupt it.

Black Bolt has disabled foreign technology with his electron powers with ease, and he's messed with Maximus' brain. Max would also have an altered nervous system due to his Inhuman heritage and his terrigen mist exposure.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Since we're using current versions (I would guess), that would also mean that standard equipment is in play. And Majestic's standard equipment is Kheran warlord armor, creation engine blade (capable of slicing through anything, sharp enough to shave the rough edges off of an electron), and whatever the hell this electrical disruption mace thingy is (2):

1. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Majestros_weapons1.jpg
2. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Majestros_weapons3.jpg
Interesting. I hadn't actually read any Majestic since his most recent solo series.

I hadn't thought that that was his regular equipment, which is what forum rules dictate. Like I said though, I'm not entirely up to date.

Doesn't look like any of that equipment is going to help him against a simply electron shield followed by a voice attack though.

Interesting to note that in those scans, despite him being apparently bloodlusted, and considering he's fighting against a high herald who's wrecked him in the past, he's definitely not fighting at nano-second speeds. Hell, his fights getting narrated by some street levels.

Seems to be that fighting at speeds superior to what Black Bolt can match is not at all the norm. Certainly not faster than Black Bolt can think "shield".

Originally posted by Enyalus
Nah. Majestros speedblitzes FTW:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Majestic_Kherawarlord1.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Majestic_Kherawarlord2.jpg

(Joking. Funny, right?) Joking? huh?

Anyways, those guys were out to kill Majestic's family, including his daughter. He's not gonna start off his fight against Black Bolt in the same fashion at all. He'll be his usual, calm, thoughtful self.

Even if he did attack at such speed, they were simply foot soldiers. They didn't possess any of Black Bolt's durability or BB's speed.

One would need to believe that Majestic is gonna be capable and ready to do that to Black Bolt 10 times before BB can get a single shield up.

As soon as Majestic's delayed for even a second, Black Bolt can speak. And when he speaks, the game is over.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
H2H against Gladiator
http://img158.exs.cx/img158/3928/gladss0fq.jpg
http://img232.exs.cx/img232/7655/gladss25uv.jpg

He has a variety of other h2h feats against some top tiers. I know he's come to blows with Gladiator, Thor, Hulk and others a few times. I'm not trying to say that he's on Majestic's strength level, but when a much older version of him is an extremely close second with what I believe is Savage Hulk, and knowing that Black Bolt can amp his electron supply into his strength, it's undeniable that Majestic will be feeling his punches if he decides to trade fisticuffs temporarily. I really don't know why he would, but I'm just saying that he's far from outgunned.

The Enraged Hulk feat is impressive. However, we've seen a more recent example of BlackBolt's H2H capabilities, and that was with (as you posted) Gladiator. And in that instance, the fight ended with Gladiator winning. And as much as I love the guy, he hasn't been at his world shattering, head-punching-off levels in more than a decade. Even holding back, Captain Atom admitted that Majestic's blows were almost as powerful as Superman's. So, unless BlackBolt pulls out the Master Blow (certainly an option, but isn't it only a one-time per fight use?) yes, BB is severely outgunned in a H2H match.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Proof that his speed is reliant as well...

Maelstrom is top notch difficulty, and Black Bolt just faced him. Here, he doesn't catch up to the missile right away because he's so fatigued. It does seem to be a globe-spanning distance, considering I believe that's flying from the arctic (did I read that right?) to Attilan, in Tibet, in a few panels.

Note that Black Bolt's suffering from "mind-numbing" fatigue... no such difficulties here.

Finally, that was a very early Black Bolt, whose electron supply was nowhere near as massive as it is now.

Looks like he's going some unquantifiable hypersonic speed there. Which is impression in and of itself, but nowhere near comparable to someone who can break lightspeed without trouble.

BTW, any more recent examples of his flight or combat speed?

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Getting hit by Thing isn't so bad.
True, true. But in Majestic you've got a guy who's taken Maul's blows without flinching, easily taken Spartan's fire (1), Captain Atom's punches (2), Eradicator's (3), etc. As well as him being strong enough to punch holes in an amped Spartan and tear other Kherans apart (4).

1.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_vs_CATS4.jpg
2.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_vs_CA_speed.jpg
3.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_vs_ConnerErads4.jpg
4.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_Spartans_battle20.jpg

Originally posted by Original Smurph
1.He's clearly not doing all of that at once... unless the people/planes/etc that he's holding in the scan are being disintegrated by the speeds that he's moving them at?

I don't know. I'm only saying that Superman and Flash have similar showings. Hell, Majestic's 'cruising' speed (if you want to call it that) is Mach 12 (scans ready if needed.)

Originally posted by Original Smurph
2. Yeah, which is an impressive endurance feat. Note that he's not actually doing all the mechanical work, as he's attached to a machine. It's unquantifiable at best.
Nah, it's basically a deep-space Kheran rig. As you can see, it has no engines. Its flight is powered by Majestic, which is why he's in the position he's in (a flight-type, horizontal position). He was using it to track the Worldship which kidnapped all the humans on Earth, which had...I think an 8 month head-start and was traveling at superluminal speeds itself.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
4. Good, not really good enough. There, he moves faster than people can percieve. Here, he needs to move faster than Black Bolt can think to make an electron shield. Black Bolt, who possesses super speed of his own (though I won't claim it's at all on par- it doesn't need to be)
Alright. I will point out that that is being narrated by the author, and not a certain character's POV, but I'll let that slide.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
5. In this case, he was prepared to ambush Hadrian after he had gotten wrecked in their fight last time (iirc). It's not his usual fight reaction. Plus, I don't recall Spartan being nano-second fast, and he beat Majestros pretty bad in the scan that that fight leads in to.

Mmkay, none of that was/is accurate. I'll explain it further though. First off, that was their first fight. And yes, Hadrian gets the better of him towards the end of it. Spartan actually has lightspeed or near-light speed reflexes. And all of the fight save for the final two pages will be posted. Let me start off by saying that Spartan and Majestros have fought 2-3 times after this, and Majestic's won in a landslide, no contest every single time. During this battle and time period, Spartan was being amped by the Void. Now then, the Void has enough power to literally destroy and recreate the WS universe (which she does in Captain Atom: Armageddon). Furthermore, the Spartan model sentient war machines are the most advanced powerful 'in existence':

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Spartan_deadly_WS.jpg

The above scan also shows off his reflexes. In it, he sees an object (Majestic's construct) which is going nearly superluminal (so, either light speed or just under). I forget exactly where they are at that moment, but its moving so fast there isn't time to send a signal to the other Spartan units. Yet, on the next page, Hadrian cuts it off in Houston. Anywho, I'm going to post the entirety of the Void-Hadrian/Majestros fight now, save for the final two pages. Keep in mind also the above scan, that late series Spartan models are extremely powerful and that Hadrian has near lightspeed reflexes during this arc:

1.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_Spartans_battle1.jpg
2.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_Spartans_battle2.jpg
3.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_Spartans_battle3.jpg
4.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_Spartans_battle4.jpg
5.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_Spartans_battle5.jpg
6.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_Spartans_battle6.jpg
7.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_Spartans_battle7.jpg
8.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_Spartans_battle8.jpg
9.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_Spartans_battle9.jpg
10.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_Spartans_battle10.jpg
11.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_Spartans_battle11.jpg
12.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_Spartans_battle12.jpg
13.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_Spartans_battle13.jpg
14.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_Spartans_battle14.jpg
15.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_Spartans_battle15.jpg
16.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_Spartans_battle16.jpg
17.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_Spartans_battle17.jpg
18.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_Spartans_battle18.jpg
19.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_Spartans_battle19.jpg
20.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_Spartans_battle20.jpg

There are two more pages to the fight. Which are irrelevant because BlackBolt is not a machine, and cannot take the kind of damage an amped Hadrian took there. But anywho, it does show him overpowering around a dozen, perhaps more, late-series Spartan units, as well as dodging 3 punches from someone's whose reflexes are comparable to the speed of light, as well as nanosecond reaction time in combat, as well as the physical strength to punch through Hadrian who had been amped by the Void's power (universal level).






(Point continued in the following post)

Most recent fight between them occurred just last week (or thereabout). Keep in mind Hadrian can transfer his consciousness to other units, which is what happens after he self-destructs:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Maj_vs_Hadrian1.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Maj_vs_Hadrian2.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Maj_vs_Hadrian3.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Maj_vs_Hadrian4.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Maj_vs_Hadrian5.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Maj_vs_Hadrian6.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Maj_vs_Hadrian7.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Maj_vs_Hadrian8.jpg

No contest in favor of Majestic.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
As long as their nervous system somehow involves the flow of ions and electrons, Black Bolt can disrupt it.

Black Bolt has disabled foreign technology with his electron powers with ease, and he's messed with Maximus' brain. Max would also have an altered nervous system due to his Inhuman heritage and his terrigen mist exposure.

Regarding the thing with Maximus, etc, that's not the same. They're both Inhumans. They've both been exposed to the mists. Hell, they're brothers. Of course BB's going to know how their CNS (Central Nervous System) works and where he can affect and manipulate it at. Majestic, completely different physiology.

Also, like Superman, Majestic has an aura around him which protects him. Whether its "bioelectric" like Supes', I don't know. It hasn't been explained in detail. But its basically what grants Majestros his nigh-invulnerability.

1.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_bioaura2.jpg
2.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_bioaura.jpg
3.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Majestros_invulnerability1.jpg
4.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Maj_Nemesis_Zealot2.jpg

First scan shows that he has an aura. It gives him, at least partially, his durability (confirmed later in the issue.) Second scan shows him expanding his aura to shield a vampire and mortal in the absolute vacuum of space, literally a few days prior to total entropy (the end of the universe, 20 billion years in the future). Third and forth scan confirms that basically the only things capable of cutting him/bypassing that aura of his are blades forged from the Creation Engine itself.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
I hadn't thought that that was his regular equipment, which is what forum rules dictate. Like I said though, I'm not entirely up to date.

Doesn't look like any of that equipment is going to help him against a simply electron shield followed by a voice attack though.

Yeah, its became standard equip since the Armageddon arc...2 years ago? The only thing that I can see helping him there, though, is his sword. It would allow him to cut Blackbolt's electron shield apart, and *possibly* deflect Bolt's voice (considering it isn't sonic-based). Here is Zealot's sword, which again, is inferior to Nemesis' own Creation Engine forged blades, as well as Majestic's:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Kherubim_blades1.jpg

And Majestic deflecting Hadrian's blast with his blade:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Majestros_weapons2.jpg

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Interesting to note that in those scans, despite him being apparently bloodlusted, and considering he's fighting against a high herald who's wrecked him in the past, he's definitely not fighting at nano-second speeds. Hell, his fights getting narrated by some street levels.

1) He's not bloodlusted. In fact, he's holding back. He's always held back in every fight against the Wildcats - this includes the one time when a Void-amped Spartan beat him (which is what you're referring to).

2) As shown in my previous post, Spartan definitely did not 'wreck' him.

3) Shame on you. Nemesis and Zealot are both pure-bred Kheran Coda assassins (most elite in the universe), and Zealot's combat speed got the better of Captain Atom when they fought, even.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Seems to be that fighting at speeds superior to what Black Bolt can match is not at all the norm.
Not really true. He has a ton of recent bullrushing/blitzing feats, as well as using his speed in combat to overwhelm his opponents. I've already posted him bullrushing Maul before kicking Hadrian's ass recently, and doing the same to the Spartan models. How 'bout some Kheran Shaper Guild warriors:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Maj_bullrush.jpg

Cool image, right?

Originally posted by Original Smurph
As soon as Majestic's delayed for even a second, Black Bolt can speak. And when he speaks, the game is over.
I don't agree. Not only does Majestic have nanosecond reaction/combat speed, but he can literally process multiple billions of scenarios per second (1). Reacting to BlackBolt would be incredibly easy. Especially considering that, per basic knowledge, Majestic will already be wary of BB's voice. Certainly he'd have time enough to raise his sword to block.

1. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Majestic_lv_erads3.jpg

hmm . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
hmm . . . I don't think we're done yet, if that's what you're wondering.

Or was it something else?

Feel free to PM me if that'd be more appropriate.

Originally posted by Enyalus


The Enraged Hulk feat is impressive. However, we've seen a more recent example of BlackBolt's H2H capabilities, and that was with (as you posted) Gladiator. Yes, we have. He traded blows with Gladiator way back when, with no edge to either side, and he's taken Gladiator by surprise recently, where he was only defeated when Glads got help.

All of this isn't to show that Black Bolt would win in a hand to hand fight, that would be ludicrous. As long as Black Bolt can withstand a single punch, however, he can make an electron shield. Even if Majestros needed to pull out his sword to try to cut through it, or while Majestros is trying to cut through it and counter Black Bolt's ridiculous electron control, then Black Bolt has time to speak.

What this means is that unless Majestic can and would take Black Bolt out in a single punch every single match, Black Bolt wins. He put Majestic in an electron field so that Majestic can't move, he can shield himself and just recreate shields as Majestros cuts through them- this is a guy with enough electron control to easily turn a boulder into anti-matter. I'll try to find the scan.

Black Bolt has solidified water in the air into bridges, turned men to stone, redirected neural pathways and reduced the air in the atmosphere. All of this puts no strain on his electron control. I have little doubt that he can repair his shield as rapidly as it's cut- it would be second nature to him.

As I'll look at later, Blackagar's voice is a OHKO in this match. This means that if he isn't taken out right away, he can and would take the enemy out.

If people don't believe he's truly that ruthless, just take a look at his latest comics.

Taken from the respect thread, since Bran already uploaded this stuff.

Originally posted by Charmander

Anyway...

These show the Skrull view of BB being pissed off, and how fast the 'ship' is going.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/SIWarofKings01pg05.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/SIWarofKings01pg06.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/SIWarofKings01pg07.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/SIWarofKings01pg08.jpg

BB powers an entire city to move at way faster than light with his voice, and takes out the Skrulls.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/SIWarofKings01pg18.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/SIWarofKings01pg19.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/SIWarofKings01pg20.jpg


So, anyways, Black Bolt rips through the skrulls fleet. Easily. No hesitation, no holding back.

What do you think would happen when Majestic comes along, yet another alien wanting to kill Black Bolt?

Also, these scans nicely correlate with the next bit...

Originally posted by Enyalus
Looks like he's going some unquantifiable hypersonic speed there. Which is impression in and of itself, but nowhere near comparable to someone who can break lightspeed without trouble.


There Black Bolt shows that he can use his powers to provide enough energy to easily break C.

In the scans prior, he was going hypersonic while unimaginably tired. It stands to reason that while freshly fueled he should be considerably faster. Especially considering the amps that his electron supply has gotten.

Anyways, none of the points about fisticuffs and Black Bolt's speed are incredibly relevant. Majestic has a couple nice feats where he makes one quick strike, but he rarely, if ever, speedblitzes. I use speedblitz in the sense of striking multiple times before the opponent can react. As we've seen from Majestic, he'll either start the fight with a quick punch or bullrush if he thinks it's necessary, then will basically spar with his opponents.

He's also only bullrushed the people he can take out in one hit- presumably because doing so against someone of any decent durability would leave his back exposed to them as he hurtles away.

Black Bolt has taken punches from top tiers and gotten right back up. It's clear that his blunt force durability is easily good enough to take one punch. After that point, as long as he makes a shield and then matter manips, speaks, messes with the brain or CNS of his opponent or any of his other tricks, he can win.

Here's some electron shield examples
http://img155.exs.cx/img155/3350/fcont7fr.jpg
http://img27.exs.cx/img27/7936/vhulk37dh.jpg

Manipulating the electrons in a person's brain
http://img227.exs.cx/img227/623/ment9bn.jpg
http://img222.exs.cx/img222/2914/mind2fu.jpg

Turns a boulder into anti-matter
http://img45.exs.cx/img45/9417/matt4cy.jpg

Causes a large enough explosion to counter a solar flare
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/2357/thing114qh6zi.jpg

Vs. Sphinx, who fought Galactus

http://img67.exs.cx/img67/5563/vssphinx19mx.jpg
http://img63.exs.cx/img63/9550/vssphinx25qz.jpg
http://img171.exs.cx/img171/9885/vssphinx31pn.jpg

You say he won't be able to affect Majestic's CNS because it's foreign, but here Black Bolt completely cuts off the power from Mandarin's rings- which is very alien technology.
http://img228.exs.cx/img228/8079/mannn3gk.jpg

Not to mention, he can affect the electron's in your body

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/6082/silentwar003010ef1.th.jpghttp://img238.imageshack.us/img238/5360/silentwar003011wk2.th.jpg

It doesn't need to be in a blast form, it doesn't need to be anything Majestros could avoid or deflect. Much like how Black Bolt affected Mandarin's rings, it can be unavoidable while Black Bolt shields himself. He can simply turn Majestros to anti-matter or stone.

Majestic has no counter to any of these. The only possibility that Eny has raised is the idea that he could cut through Black Bolt's voice with his sword- but BB's voice is not like an energy blast that can be cut through.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/darthphere/sonofm110067bt.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/darthphere/sonofm120067fz.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/darthphere/sonofm13140063hl.jpg

It's just pure, undetectable, unblockable destruction. Everything in the vicinity explodes, gets wrecked, atomizes.

Oh, and while I'm rambling, I had another interesting point to raise. If Majestros gets too close, Blackagar can simply blast him away.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/InhumansVol2-11-15.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/InhumansVol2-11-16.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/InhumansVol2-11-17.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/InhumansVol2-11-18.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/InhumansVol2-11-19.jpg

Like a jedi using force blasts, only ridiculously more potent.

Again, he can draw on enough power to fuel Attilan for the next ten millenia.

Mind you, say Black Bolt allows himself to grunt in pain when he gets hit, like a defense mechanism.

Majestic would be blown back anyways.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/Inhumans_TGR_001_51.jpg

But, regardless of the fact that the sword wouldn't work, it's also questionable whether he even has it- hasn't Majestic only had, like, 3 appearances with that sword? Punisher recently appeared with what looked like Ant-Man's helmet. I'm not going to claim that's standard equipment for him.

Anyways, the last point I'd like to drive home is the implication on just how powerful his voice is.

I'll rattle off some feats, and post what I have scans for.

Black Bolt's voice, concentrated by Reed's device designed to optimize power output, overloaded Dr. Doom when he had the power of a Watcher.

Black Bolt's voice powered Reed's machine to rip open time/space, in order to tear a whole in every dimension of 616 reality.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Blackbolts voice can rip a hole in Reality:
*I particularly like the way Reed used the word "SPEAK" as opposed to "SHOUT/SCREAM"*
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/4928/newavengersilluminati00br2.th.jpghttp://img248.imageshack.us/img248/4299/newavengersilluminati00ol6.th.jpg

Black Bolt's whisper has KO'd Gladiator and Hulk. Hulk, twice, I believe.

Black Bolt's voice WTFpwned a barrier that Skrull nukes couldn't scratch.

Medusa fears that Black Bolt speaking would obliterate half the planet- meanwhile, Black Bolt utters something into the planet that shakes continents and sets off volcanoes on the other side.

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/148/bb1sr9.jpg

A single syllable sets an entire city free from its foundations

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/FF240-16.jpg

This one I love- the threat of Black Bolt speaking garners the attention of an abstract.

http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?image=power44mi2sh.jpg

Imagine the raw power that it has to take for someone that collects galaxies to notice you simply because you prepare to speak.

Anyways, there are a handful of other things that I could toss your way, but the point is made. If Black Bolt ever speaks throughout the entire match, it's over. If Black Bolt survives the first punch, it's over. If Black Bolt makes a shield and Majestic decides not to use the very first possible nano-second to attack, it's over. If Majestic does decide to do that, it just takes another nano-second for Black Bolt to speak.

You get the idea, I'm sure.

----------------------------------------------

Eny, this was fun. Feel free to make a final post if you want, but I think I'm done.

I'll make 1-2 more final posts. Hopefully get them up later tonight. Midnightish, Eastern Standard time.

Yeah, it was fun. for the idea.

i assume this is done. anyway, nice job by both. i knew most of what bolt could do and that's why i thought this would be a good battle. i THOUGHT i knew enough about majestros, but kudos to enyalus on a great job of showcasing many feats i'd never seen before and for putting together some really strong and convincing posts. i was very impressed.

i started off thinking majestros takes about 7/10. after seeing some of his feats, i might go higher even. the scream is ALWAYS a possibilty but it seems to me that might be the ONLY chance. i agree with eny that a whisper might do damage but i don't think it would take out majestros, just like it didn't completely take out glads at uber-close range. given basic knowledge of each other, majestros is clearly smart enough NOT to get in too close. his vision powers are FAR greater than i thought they were, and his speed advantage is far too great as well. bb might get a shield up, but if he does, can he use his voice through it? his shield is about the only thing that seems like it might keep him alive from either the sword, the vision OR just being pummelled at nano-second speed.

i think it is fair to say bb might manipulate the electrons in majestros, but i'm not sure he'd be able to do so fully or completely right from the start given majestros's alien biology.

smurph did a great job of showcasing his boy, but i think in this debate bb was simply outgunned by someone who, frankly, is a lot more powerful than i had thought he was. thanks for the entertainment gents. that was a nice demonstration of what a kmc debate SHOULD look like.

Thanks, Leonidas.

I'm bumping this. Whoever else was supposed to judge....I think its safe to say its over now. lol

before i give my verdict, is this bout cis free or not?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
before i give my verdict, is this bout cis free or not?

in these type of debates they always are.

Great debate guys!

Originally posted by leonidas
in these type of debates they always are. i had to ask, can't really judge with conviction if some rules aren't established.

and yeah, definitely a sick match, both debators brought heat.




ok, going with eny/mr. majestic here.

blackbolt is a very enigmatic character with holding back as the root of his character, the downside of that is there aren't a lot of balls-to-the-walls feats for smurph to choose from to beat a guy like majestros without looking like he's making shit up.

the scream is an asset that most likely MUST happen to give this to bb, but the effect of that event is still an unknown. for all we know it might shake loose the electrons from all the atoms in the solar system. or just the proportionate level of damage by using the sonic difference between a one syllable word and a full man yell. we do know a whisper can rock a us battle cruiser, and a word can take out a mountain(s) who can say you know? *

blackbolt has the offense to possibly win (electron manip, etc) but, it just seems that majestic will be on bb quickly, giving him hell before he can get fancy on his ass.

(* this all might very well change after "war of kings" concludes)

cool, cool.

no need to get a third judge then.

tbh, I'm not surprised. I knew back when I picked Black Bolt that I wouldn't back him up in an actual vs. match, but I wanted to challenge myself, and defs wasn't dissapointed. i liked that the match was fairly casual too, without usual tourney match tenseness or bickering on either side.

thanks for the match eny. I'd gladly rematch you at any point.

frankly, it was a miss match of characters, not the debaters.

smurph almost convinced me with the shield.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
thanks for the match eny. I'd gladly rematch you at any point.
You, too, man. Class act.

I don't like the drama either. Next time we'll do SS vs. Genis-Vell or something.

Originally posted by Enyalus

Are you using that Namor scan as proof of that, or is it stated/shown elsewhere?



Nice scan. But, he gets rocked backwards from a punch by Thing. And Namor is nowhere near the Hulk's or Majestic's level.

Durability-wise, Maj has taken a shot directly to the face from Maul before, without so much as flinching:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Majestros_weapons2.jpg

And strengthwise, Namor/Hulk/Thing/etc. are no where close. How about moving all of the planets in the solar system, as well as catching and redirecting a comet, as well as casually moving around the largest asteroids in the asteroid belt (most of which are made purely of iron ore...meaning they're friggin' heavy.)

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Majestic_str_moon1.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Majestic_str_comet1.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Majestic_str_mercury1.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Majestic_str_asteroid_lv.jpg

And a more recent example has him explicitly moving the Earth back onto its axis, proving those earlier feats of his and his strength hasn't been retconned:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Majestic_Earthmoving.jpg


That's assuming Majestic is standing still or that Black Bolt will be fast enough to track/react to encasing him in that field. Which he won't be.

Majestic's so fast he basically appears to be in four different places on Earth at the same time (1), sustained FTL speeds for four straight months without stopping (2-3), was so fast that he appeared to be everywhere at once (4), and has on-panel nanosecond H2H speed (5).

1. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Majestic_speed1.jpg
2. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Majestic_speed2.jpg
3. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Majestic_speed3.jpg
4. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Majestic_speed4.jpg
5. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Majestic_nanoreact.jpg


BB is so not screaming. A whisper, sure. Even when he was being tortured by skrulls and his family was in danger, he only let out a whisper. Not in his character to scream.


Kherans have a different nervous system makeup (I have scans if you want/need proof), which I'm sure would throw BB off. He's also resisted fairly high-end magical matter manipulation.

Since we're using current versions (I would guess), that would also mean that standard equipment is in play. And Majestic's standard equipment is Kheran warlord armor, creation engine blade (capable of slicing through anything, sharp enough to shave the rough edges off of an electron), and whatever the hell this electrical disruption mace thingy is (2):

1. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Majestros_weapons1.jpg
2. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Majestros_weapons3.jpg



Nah. Majestros speedblitzes FTW:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Majestic_Kherawarlord1.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Majestic_Kherawarlord2.jpg

(Joking. Funny, right?)


That not Majestic that Lord Imperator another Kherubim warlord.