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Upon escaping Europe with Michael Corvin, Selene and Michael move to Haddonfield, Illinois. Unbeknownst to them, Nazi warrior Karl Ruprecht Kroenen has followed them. They also run into Laurie Strode, who (you guessed it) is once again trying to fight off her older, murderous brother. Selene and Laurie join forces to fight both Michael Myers and Karl.

(Fight description
Abandoned alley in downtown Haddonfield.

1. Selene with her twin Berettas and P99s.
2. Karl with his Razor Tonfas and a Luger.
3. Laurie with 3 army knives, 2 kitchen knives, a Revolver, and a Fire Axe.
4. Michael with 2 kitchen knives, and a Machete (stolen from Jason).

Michael makes short work of Laurie, while Karl cuts Selene a new.....well, thingie.

Laurie is just useless.

So its really just Selene vs Myers and Karl.

Selene would beat each of them individually, but both at once is too much.

I say Selene should get the axe from Laurie and decap Myers while Laurie distracts Karl for a few momemnts before she gets killed.

Karl would PWN Selene.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Karl would PWN Selene.

Yea, but the thing is, no.

Originally posted by Placidity
Yea, but the thing is, no.

No, RJ may be right.

Based on "movie feats", Karl may be much faster.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, RJ may be right.

Based on "movie feats", Karl may be much faster.

Burden of proof is on you, sir. Selene has hard evidence of superhuman speed. How does Karl show his equivalent?

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Burden of proof is on you, sir. Selene has hard evidence of superhuman speed. How does Karl show his equivalent?


I'll leave that up to RJ, sir.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, RJ may be right.

Based on "movie feats", Karl may be much faster.

Not really.

If you want to know how fast Selene can be just watch the start of this video (0:08 - 0:30).

Also take special notice of what she does at 0:17.

She did this BEFORE she took the blood from Alex Corvinus, making her the most powerful Vampire/Human Immortal hybrid.


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She also has a healing factor.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Burden of proof is on you, sir. Selene has hard evidence of superhuman speed. How does Karl show his equivalent? By blocking bullets with his blades?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
By blocking bullets with his blades?

Which was my original logic.


I still don't see anything the makes Selene as fast as Karl. Reflexes as well.


Unfortunately or Selene, she gets cut into itty bitty pieces. Karl also can do quite a bit of damage absorption with no problems.


Despite that, Selene is WAY cooler and waaaaaaaay the eff sexier.

Originally posted by dadudemon


I still don't see anything the makes Selene as fast as Karl. Reflexes as well.


0:12 - Selene was fighting behind the guard who turns around to see what it was. Next instant she appears right in front of him.

0:17 - Undeniable superspeed. I can't believe how you can say this isn't faster than Karl.

Originally posted by Placidity
0:12 - Selene was fighting behind the guard who turns around to see what it was. Next instant she appears right in front of him.

0:17 - Undeniable superspeed. I can't believe how you can say this isn't faster than Karl. She was shown that fast against a mortal man, she is never shown that fast when fighting immortals. It was probably filmed that way to show how much faster vamps are than humans.

Speed or no speed, how is she gonna kill Karl?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

Speed or no speed, how is she gonna kill Karl?

By ripping his arms offs, she has super-strength, he's a dried-up corpse.

Originally posted by Robtard
By ripping his arms offs, she has super-strength, he's a dried-up corpse. Mhm. Hellboy coulda ripped Karl apart then, according to that logic.

She also has an axe.

And Karl has two blades. Did Selene ever display that she could block bullets from two shooters? And you gotta remember that Karl is a wall crawler.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Did Selene ever display that she could block bullets from two shooters?

What kind of question is that? The fact that she hasn't doesn't prove anything. She's usually only uses firearms. However, I'm sure shes well trained in swordsmanship as thats what they used hundreds of years ago when she was turned.

I think the only time she used a sword was against Viktor.

How about I ask you an almost equally ridiculous question - has Karl ever killed a Lycan?

Originally posted by Placidity
What kind of question is that? The fact that she hasn't doesn't prove anything. She's usually only uses firearms. However, I'm sure shes well trained in swordsmanship as thats what they used hundreds of years ago when she was turned.

I think the only time she used a sword was against Viktor.

How about I ask you an almost equally ridiculous question - has Karl ever killed a Lycan? Point is that she is never seen displaying any real swordsmanship skills. All she does is bisect Viktor's head while Viktor was fighting Michael. One swipe with a sword proves nothing. You can assume she is a well trained in sword all you want, but unless w see it onscreen, it has no bearing here.

Therefore, going up against Karl's blades would be suicide for her.

As for her firearms, they will have zero effect on Karl.

Has Karl ever killed a lycan? Nope, but he would make short work of a lycan if the occasion arose.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Point is that she is never seen displaying any real swordsmanship skills. All she does is bisect Viktor's head while Viktor was fighting Michael. One swipe with a sword proves nothing. You can assume she is a well trained in sword all you want, but unless w see it onscreen, it has no bearing here.


Do you know what a Death Dealer is? They hunt and kill Lycans. What weapons do you think they used in medieval times?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And you gotta remember that Karl is a wall crawler.

I don't remember where he does that. But its not really an advantage in this fight unless he can do it like Spider-man. BTW, Vampires can wallcrawl too...

Originally posted by Placidity
Do you know what a Death Dealer is? They hunt and kill Lycans. What weapons do you think they used in medieval times? Yes, I know what a Death Dealer is. For all we know she used a crossbow, or a mace, she is never shown using a sword impressively, get it?

Think about this. In Underworld, she passed out form blood loss after Lucian stabbed her in the shoulder. What do you think she is gonna do when Karl unleashes on her? She is gonna get cut, bleed, and then be killed. Karl does not bleed, man, all Selene will do is piss him off.

And if she unloads with Berettas, Karl will simply redirect the bullets back at her. Yes, he did this in the musuem scene in Hellboy, against TWO shooters. AND he shrugged off gunfire from 5 to 6 more, then pwned them.

Face it, Selene is WAY outclassed here.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

Think about this. In Underworld, she passed out form blood loss after Lucian stabbed her in the shoulder. What do you think she is gonna do when Karl unleashes on her? She is gonna get cut, bleed, and then be killed.


That was a low-showing.

Selene has since been shot point-blank in the abdomen by a shotgun with NO EFFECT.

She has also been impaled by Markus several times through the movie and she recovers quickly. This is due to her healing factor.

Also during the last fight, she gets impaled through the chest but goes on to fight back. In the start of the movie, Karl gets similarly impaled through the chest and he was out of the game for some time.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

And if she unloads with Berettas, Karl will simply redirect the bullets back at her. Yes, he did this in the musuem scene in Hellboy, against TWO shooters. AND he shrugged off gunfire from 5 to 6 more, then pwned them.


If she just uses pistols, she won't get a win, I would agree with that.

But she has a choice of using an axe as well, and as pointed out in the video I posted, she has enough superspeed to blitz Karl. Karl actually doesn't have any superspeed at all, however, he does have amazing reflexes. If an opportunity arises, Selene can also simply just punch him and then man-handle him with her vastly superior strength.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

Face it, Selene is WAY outclassed here.

Sure, except she killed Markus Corvinus, which without a doubt would slaughter Karl.

Originally posted by Placidity
That was a low-showing.

Selene has since been shot point-blank in the abdomen by a shotgun with NO EFFECT.

She has also been impaled by Markus several times through the movie and she recovers quickly. This is due to her healing factor.

Also during the last fight, she gets impaled through the chest but goes on to fight back. In the start of the movie, Karl gets similarly impaled through the chest and he was out of the game for some time. Point is she bleeds, Karl doesnt. She can be killed with a quick slice to the jugular.



Yeah too bad we never SEE her with an axe, innit?

Sure, Selene is superfast, and you just admitted Karl has amazing reflexes, more enough to block whatever she comes at him with and counter.

Punch him? Man handle him? Hellboy punched him and manhandled him, and Karl was still fighting. You saying Selene is stronger than Hellboy?

Oh, lookie lookie:

Originally posted by Rogue_Agent
Upon escaping Europe with Michael Corvin, Selene and Michael move to Haddonfield, Illinois. Unbeknownst to them, Nazi warrior Karl Ruprecht Kroenen has followed them. They also run into Laurie Strode, who (you guessed it) is once again trying to fight off her older, murderous brother. Selene and Laurie join forces to fight both Michael Myers and Karl.

(Fight description
Abandoned alley in downtown Haddonfield.

1. Selene with her twin Berettas and P99s.
2. Karl with his Razor Tonfas and a Luger.
3. Laurie with 3 army knives, 2 kitchen knives, a Revolver, and a Fire Axe.
4. Michael with 2 kitchen knives, and a Machete (stolen from Jason). No mention of an axe.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

Oh, lookie lookie:

No mention of an axe.

If you're going to engage me in debate, try to keep up with my posts.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Point is she bleeds, Karl doesnt. She can be killed with a quick slice to the jugular.


No point is, she wouldn't die. She has a healing factor that you're yet to acknowledge.


Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

Yeah too bad we never SEE her with an axe, innit?


Yea ok

If it was Selene vs Karl with an axe then he would lose right - cause unfortuntately for you we never SEE him with an axe, innit?

Originally posted by Placidity
If you're going to engage me in debate, try to keep up with my posts. I was quoting the conditions of the thread, its not up to you to change them, is it? If RA comes in here and declares that now she has an axe, so be it, but until then, stick with what he posted. "I say Selene gets an axe" is OK if YOU started the thread.




Originally posted by Placidity
No point is, she wouldn't die. She has a healing factor that you're yet to acknowledge. And how fast does her healing factor work? Seconds? Minutes? How long will it take her stomach to heal after Karl guts her?




Who mentioned KARL with an axe? You are the one giving Selene an axe, changing the conditions of the thread, not me.

Originally posted by Placidity
I don't remember where he does that. But its not really an advantage in this fight unless he can do it like Spider-man. BTW, Vampires can wallcrawl too... Musuem scene. And Selene is never shown wall crawling, is she?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Musuem scene. And Selene is never shown wall crawling, is she?

Can you explain why some vampires can and Selene can't? That is whay you're saying.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I was quoting the conditions of the thread, its not up to you to change them, is it? If RA comes in here and declares that now she has an axe, so be it, but until then, stick with what he posted. "I say Selene gets an axe" is OK if YOU started the thread.


So Selene can't pick up her fallen ally's weapon?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

And how fast does her healing factor work? Seconds? Minutes? How long will it take her stomach to heal after Karl guts her?


Not shown clearly. Not more than a few minutes.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

Who mentioned KARL with an axe? You are the one giving Selene an axe, changing the conditions of the thread, not me.

No, you were saying Selene would not win with an axe cause she wasn't seen in the movie using one. Along the same BS you used earlier to say Selene wouldn't be skilled with a sword.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Mhm. Hellboy coulda ripped Karl apart then, according to that logic.

Probably could have, he never really got that close though, he's very slow compared to Selene.

If you're going to cry about it though, her guns were able to cut a hole in the floor, so she cuts off Karl's arms with her bullets, shouldn't take nearly as many, Karl was rather thin.

Originally posted by Robtard
Probably could have, he never really got that close though, he's very slow compared to Selene.

If you're going to cry about it though, her guns were able to cut a hole in the floor, so she cuts off Karl's arms with her bullets, shouldn't take nearly as many, Karl was rather thin.

Good thinking. +1 to all that is not RJ

Originally posted by Robtard
Probably could have, he never really got that close though, he's very slow compared to Selene.

If you're going to cry about it though, her guns were able to cut a hole in the floor, so she cuts off Karl's arms with her bullets, shouldn't take nearly as many, Karl was rather thin. Never get close enough? Whats Selene gonna do, attack with a 20 foot sword? She'll HAVE to go in close to engage him, and that's when he cuts her to ribbons.

And forget the guns, the bullets would never reach Karl. But you already know that. Even if they did, they would simply bounce off him, but you also know that.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Never get close enough? Whats Selene gonna do, attack with a 20 foot sword? She'll HAVE to go in close to engage him, and that's when he cuts her to ribbons.

And forget the guns, the bullets would never reach Karl. But you already know that. Even if they did, they would simply bounce off him, but you also know that.

That's when her vampire speed comes in, Karl is quick, he isn't that fast though.

Karl was shown blocking bullets fired from prone humans, not someone who can move around and fire at Selene's vampire speed. Bullets bounce the armored bits of Karl, he isn't armored all around, particularly his thin arms.

If you're still going to rant about Karl's presumed uberness, then Selene bites the other *****, turning her into a vampire, takes the axe and quickly decaps Myers, then turns her attention on Karl. If Selene can't do it alone(which she could), then surely two vampires can.

Originally posted by Robtard
That's when her vampire speed comes in, Karl is quick, he isn't that fast though.

Karl was shown blocking bullets fired from prone humans, not someone who can move around and fire at Selene's vampire speed. Bullets bounce the armored bits of Karl, he isn't armored all around, particularly his thin arms. Dude, using 9mm handguns to blow someones arms off is a lot different than shooting holes in the floor. Karl survived a point blank grenade blast and a piece of metal that pinned him to a pillar, severing his spine. And those musuem guards, you trying to say that during that barrage of gunfire, not one bullet struck Karl's arms?

He's durable, not arguing he isn't, but Selene is way faster than anything he's faced.

Assumed it broke his spine.

He can block bullets, Selene isn't just some museum night guard with a gun though. She's a tad faster and skilled. Also, see "takes axe".

Originally posted by Robtard
He's durable, not arguing he isn't, but Selene is way faster than anything he's faced.

Assumed it broke his spine.

He can block bullets, Selene isn't just some museum night guard with a gun though. She's a tad faster and skilled. Also, see "takes axe". No axe, dude. Get over the axe.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No axe, dude. Get over the axe.

Why not? Her partner has it, why couldn't Selene 'think outside the box'? It's not like I'm saying 'she just finds an axe'.

Not that she'd really need the axe, guns that cut holes in floors is enough to cut a super-corpse into pieces.

Originally posted by Robtard
Why not? Her partner has it, why couldn't Selene 'think outside the box'? It's not like I'm saying 'she just finds an axe'.

Not that she'd really need the axe, guns that cut holes in floors is enough to cut a super-corpse into pieces. Selene is never shown using an axe. We dont know how good she is with an axe. Am I arguing that Karl can disarm her and use her pistols against her? Nope. Why? Cuz Karl is never shown using Berettas.

Dude, wood splinters and her weight (110ish) made the wood fall with ease. An arm is not blown off by a 9 mm that easy, it will take several shots.

Originally posted by Placidity
0:12 - Selene was fighting behind the guard who turns around to see what it was. Next instant she appears right in front of him.

0:17 - Undeniable superspeed. I can't believe how you can say this isn't faster than Karl.
Sorry, man, doesn't work. Still too slow. She just ran fast. Doesn't help her with Karl in any way...except when she's running away from him.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Selene is never shown using an axe. We dont know how good she is with an axe. Am I arguing that Karl can disarm her and use her pistols against her? Nope. Why? Cuz Karl is never shown using Berettas.

Dude, wood splinters and her weight (110ish) made the wood fall with ease. An arm is not blown off by a 9 mm that easy, it will take several shots.

Because we all know swinging an axe is mentally taxing in the highest of orders.

Karl probably couldn't disarm her, she's too fast for him.

That was a full on floor in an apartment building, not just some 1/2 sheet of plywood. So those 9mm's weren't just ordinary 9mm's, going by movie feats. She can do several shots, rather quickly too. Pops goes Karl's elbows, poor Karl.

Originally posted by Robtard
Because we all know swinging an axe is mentally taxing in the highest of orders.

Karl probably couldn't disarm her, she's too fast for him.

That was a full on floor in an apartment building, not just some 1/2 sheet of plywood. So those 9mm's weren't just ordinary 9mm's, going by movie feats. She can do several shots, rather quickly too. Pops goes Karl's elbows, poor Karl. Mh, and Karl is just gonna stand there and not evade as she unloads on him. Going by movie feats, Selene just points and sprays hoping to hit the target. She needs McClane and Riggs to take her to the range.









































And then rape her like a jungle animal.

She hits her targets enough.

She's hot.

Karl's penis is dry and shriveled.

Originally posted by Robtard
She's hot.

Karl's penis is dry and shriveled.

AHA!

This logic is impeccable. I have NO rebuttals for this.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Sorry, man, doesn't work. Still too slow. She just ran fast. Doesn't help her with Karl in any way...except when she's running away from him.

It was nice to actually get a look at her speed's effect as it looks to humans, but to say she can't match Karl in reflexes is pushing it. Her entire vamphood was centered on hunting down lycanthropes, which were canonically shown to be more powerful than the vampires. Spending your life fighting opponents stronger than you (especially in her case, since she's still a "young" vampiress) and you'll develop good reflexes.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
It was nice to actually get a look at her speed's effect as it looks to humans, but to say she can't match Karl in reflexes is pushing it. Her entire vamphood was centered on hunting down lycanthropes, No it's not. For teh humanz.


Originally posted by XanatosForever
which were canonically shown to be more powerful than the vampires.

Really?

Where?

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Spending your life fighting opponents stronger than you (especially in her case, since she's still a "young" vampiress) and you'll develop good reflexes.

Uh, no dude. Being a vampire alone gives you the strength and reflexes. And the older you get, the stronger you get, in the Underworld universe.

Originally posted by Robtard
She hits her targets enough.

She's hot.

Karl's penis is dry and shriveled. Actually, Karl surgically removed it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No it's not. For teh humanz.

The humanz in Hellboy could see everything Karl did...that makes them sooper humanz? >.>



Originally posted by dadudemon
Really?

Where?

Pretty much every encounter? In the first encounter in Underworld, the lycan took down at least two vamps before going after Selene.


Originally posted by dadudemon
Uh, no dude. Being a vampire alone gives you the strength and reflexes. And the older you get, the stronger you get, in the Underworld universe.

You get stronger, but in what context? I took it as an overall enhancing of their abilities, which makes sense, ya? So she would not only get stronger, she would get faster (i.e. catching up to a speeding truck like Markus), her reaction time would get better (going toe-to-toe with a hybrid ), et cetera. This is all assuming we're not using Selene at the end of Evolution, when she was evolved even past the power of hybrids.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
The humanz in Hellboy could see everything Karl did...that makes them sooper humanz? >.>

Umm...that in no way relates to the point you are quoting.





Originally posted by XanatosForever
Pretty much every encounter? In the first encounter in Underworld, the lycan took down at least two vamps before going after Selene.

Uh. No. I want you to do us all a favor and count the number of Lycans Selene kills. Since she is so young (by vampire standards), it should get the point across.




Originally posted by XanatosForever
You get stronger, but in what context? I took it as an overall enhancing of their abilities, which makes sense, ya? So she would not only get stronger, she would get faster (i.e. catching up to a speeding truck like Markus), her reaction time would get better (going toe-to-toe with a hybrid ), et cetera. This is all assuming we're not using Selene at the end of Evolution, when she was evolved even past the power of hybrids.


K.

You're using "hybrids" wrong. Hybrids is the combinations of Lycan and Vampire...at least in the movie.

Well, if we use the Selene at the end of Evolution, then...that could be different. Are there speed feats for her at the end of Evolution?

Originally posted by dadudemon

Since she is so young (by vampire standards), it should get the point across.


Actually she isn't that young at all. Markus converted Viktor so he would help control William. As soon as William was captured, Selene's father was commissioned to build the prison, and Selene was turned soon after that.

Originally posted by dadudemon

You're using "hybrids" wrong. Hybrids is the combinations of Lycan and Vampire...at least in the movie.


Actually he isn't wrong... Markus is a Vampire dominant Hybrid.