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Match Set and Go!

I assume Scathan can make a large green nail . . .

scathan doesn't approve of mandrakk.

(chuck norris then rips into the battle zone and brow beats mandrakk into cutting his wrists)

Yeah, I mean...Protege was pretty much the ultimate threat to the MU at that point, right? Scathan, basically, dealt with him.

I'd say it basically plays into his powerset to defeat Mandrakk.

Mandrakk gets a

The Approver

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I assume Scathan can make a large green nail . . .

Yes because that was the only thing used to beat Mandrakk...

Mandrakk.

Scathan wins.

Originally posted by Galan007
Mandrakk. Because clearly, Scathan does not have the heat vision of 50 Supermen, nor a giant GL stake.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I assume Scathan can make a large green nail . . .

Scathan goes down so hard. Mandrakk (Novu) never got staked that was Mandrakk (Ogama). Novu was more powerful, an evolving hyper story. The CA was built to defeat Novu, Ogama became Mandrakk by infection after being exiled in limbo, he wasn't the original.

Originally posted by Allankles
Scathan goes down so hard. Mandrakk (Novu) never got staked that was Mandrakk (Ogama). Novu was more powerful, an evolving hyper story. The CA was built to defeat Novu, Ogama became Mandrakk by infection after being exiled in limbo, he wasn't the original. How does he beat Scathan? LOL at you assuming he goes down hard.

Scathan Doesn't Approve of Mandrakk.

Mandrakk.

Scathan.

Mandrakk. Though, even his lesser aspect in Ogama was enough to crush Spectre/Radiant. And he still was going to destroy the concept of the multiverse..........

Mandrakk Mandrakk's him.

Originally posted by Galan007
Mandrakk.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Mandrakk. Though, even his lesser aspect in Ogama was enough to crush Spectre/Radiant. And he still was going to destroy the concept of the multiverse.......... How?

Energy Muzzle ftw.

imo scathan isn't more powerful than a normal celestial, his authority however is high enough to fill in for a stymied LT. if the LT deems something out of the grand design, it gets dealt with, but since nobody is allowed do interfere and the muzzle thing is kinda sketchy.....

mandrakk for the win.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
imo scathan isn't more powerful than a normal celestial, his authority however is high enough to fill in for a stymied LT. if the LT deems something out of the grand design, it gets dealt with, but since nobody is allowed do interfere and the muzzle thing is kinda sketchy.....

mandrakk for the win.

i actually agree with . . . ALL of that.

that whole gotg arc was just odd. STILL not sure how protege copied LT but didn't/couldn't copy scathan. just seemed weird to me too.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Because clearly, Scathan does not have the heat vision of 50 Supermen, nor a giant GL stake. And Mandrakk's power isn't entirely dependent on looking at someone (thus rendeing teh muzzle ineffective.)

biscuits

Err, there were two Mandrakks? Where was that stated?

I just assumed it was the same Mandrakk from Superman Beyond who came back for more punishment in FC 7?

Originally posted by Enyalus
Err, there were two Mandrakks? Where was that stated?

I just assumed it was the same Mandrakk from Superman Beyond who came back for more punishment in FC 7?

Novu fell into the ovoid, the source of creation (the mind of the monitor). Ogama took up the mantle after he'd been banished to limbo by his peers and he transformed Ultraman into his vampire superman.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
imo scathan isn't more powerful than a normal celestial, his authority however is high enough to fill in for a stymied LT. if the LT deems something out of the grand design, it gets dealt with, but since nobody is allowed do interfere and the muzzle thing is kinda sketchy.....

mandrakk for the win. How is he not more powerful when he energy muzzled someone powerful enough to scare the shit out of Eternity?


How does Mandrakk win?

Originally posted by quanchi112
How is he not more powerful when he energy muzzled someone powerful enough to scare the shit out of Eternity?


How does Mandrakk win? cause the lt will be presumable still functional and in full authority in his realm, so scathan is without whatever amp the oaa gave it (or whatever it did). scathan is going solo here under his own power.

didn't you think it was a bit odd that scathan came out of nowhere when the lt was stalemated in power? like what prompted it to act at that crucial moment and no other time ever before...like..during the ig saga?????

.........

i have an idea!... in the ig trilogy, the lt was never usurped or in danger, and since there IS NO BEING IN BETWEEN THE LT AND TOAA another had to act as the decision maker for the lt to act.

Lt probably can't judge a superior being, or one exactly like him, it creates a 404 error or something. someone else charged by the oaa has to tip the scale of justice..literally.

hmmm . . . prefer to say terrible writing. i mean the friggin HAWK GOD was in the complany of lt and scathan . . .

Originally posted by psycho gundam
cause the lt will be presumable still functional and in full authority in his realm, so scathan is without whatever amp the oaa gave it (or whatever it did). scathan is going solo here under his own power.

didn't you think it was a bit odd that scathan came out of nowhere when the lt was stalemated in power? like what prompted it to act at that crucial moment and no other time ever before...like..during the ig saga????? Maybe scathan didn't exist than you do know that scathan is from the future. Also just because "said" abstracts don't show up to protect multiversal destruction does not mean they don't exist or are less powerful. Writer have chosen when to include them and when not to.

Like the M crystal for example

he was a crapily drawn celestial that appeared in one issue they could have slapped him there if they wanted to, or some other wtf? abstract of the week.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
cause the lt will be presumable still functional and in full authority in his realm, so scathan is without whatever amp the oaa gave it (or whatever it did). scathan is going solo here under his own power.

didn't you think it was a bit odd that scathan came out of nowhere when the lt was stalemated in power? like what prompted it to act at that crucial moment and no other time ever before...like..during the ig saga?????

.........

i have an idea!... in the ig trilogy, the lt was never usurped or in danger, and since there IS NO BEING IN BETWEEN THE LT AND TOAA another had to act as the decision maker for the lt to act.

Lt probably can't judge a superior being, or one exactly like him, it creates a 404 error or something. someone else charged by the oaa has to tip the scale of justice..literally. Who said he was amped? Where are you getting this from?


I know a lot of people have a problem with a Celestial being powerful enough to take on someone with Lt- like power, but it is what it is. We must all accept it.

Scathan FTW.

Scathan stomped the combined power of,

GOTG (meh, but still, it was all of them)
Mephisto & his daughter Malevolence (not a wow, but no pushovers either)
post-Beyonder (multi-Universal power)
Hawkgod (a Multiversal power below Eternity)
Eternity (all that ever was, is or will be)
... and TWO freakin Living Tribunals (need I say more?)

Scathan stomped all that power with a single simple gesture.


btw. Scathan is 100% canon,
as he appeared in an official Marvel arc, (not some dumbass cross-over)
was mentioned in a separate official Marvel arc, (not another dumbass crossover)
and was referenced in Two official Marvel Handbooks (LT's and Celestials')
and both bios basically confirm Scathan's feat mentioned above.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Scathan FTW.

Scathan stomped the combined power of,

GOTG (meh, but still, it was all of them)
Mephisto & his daughter Malevolence (not a wow, but no pushovers either)
post-Beyonder (multi-Universal power)
Hawkgod (a Multiversal power below Eternity)
Eternity (all that ever was, is or will be)
... and TWO freakin Living Tribunals (need I say more?)

Scathan stomped all that power with a single simple gesture.


btw. Scathan is 100% canon,
as he appeared in an official Marvel arc, (not some dumbass cross-over)
was mentioned in a separate official Marvel arc, (not another dumbass crossover)
and was referenced in Two official Marvel Handbooks (LT's and Celestials')
and both bios basically confirm Scathan's feat mentioned above.

nice...

Scathan with ridiculous ease.

The Approver takes it

Originally posted by Mr Master
Scathan FTW.

Scathan stomped the combined power of,

GOTG (meh, but still, it was all of them)
Mephisto & his daughter Malevolence (not a wow, but no pushovers either)
post-Beyonder (multi-Universal power)
Hawkgod (a Multiversal power below Eternity)
Eternity (all that ever was, is or will be)
... and TWO freakin Living Tribunals (need I say more?)

Scathan stomped all that power with a single simple gesture.


btw. Scathan is 100% canon,
as he appeared in an official Marvel arc, (not some dumbass cross-over)
was mentioned in a separate official Marvel arc, (not another dumbass crossover)
and was referenced in Two official Marvel Handbooks (LT's and Celestials')
and both bios basically confirm Scathan's feat mentioned above.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Scathan FTW.

Scathan stomped the combined power of,

GOTG (meh, but still, it was all of them)
Mephisto & his daughter Malevolence (not a wow, but no pushovers either)
post-Beyonder (multi-Universal power)
Hawkgod (a Multiversal power below Eternity)
Eternity (all that ever was, is or will be)
... and TWO freakin Living Tribunals (need I say more?)

Scathan stomped all that power with a single simple gesture.


btw. Scathan is 100% canon,
as he appeared in an official Marvel arc, (not some dumbass cross-over)
was mentioned in a separate official Marvel arc, (not another dumbass crossover)
and was referenced in Two official Marvel Handbooks (LT's and Celestials')
and both bios basically confirm Scathan's feat mentioned above.

So Scathan is above LT to you.

EDIT: Anyway Mandrakk is above the multiverse, he's a hyper evolving story that destroys other stories i.e. he makes himself stronger than whatever story opposesses him. He'll drink Scathan's story for breakfast.

Originally posted by Allankles
So Scathan is above LT to you.

EDIT: Anyway Mandrakk is above the multiverse, he's a hyper evolving story that destroys other stories i.e. he makes himself stronger than whatever story opposesses him. He'll drink Scathan's story for breakfast. He failed to make himself stronger than Superman so I fail to see your point. Scathan has dealt with bigger fish.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He failed to make himself stronger than Superman so I fail to see your point. Scathan has dealt with bigger fish.

If you have an argument let's hear it, this doesn't qualify.

CA Supes was the embodiment of a story created to be unstoppable and indestructable. Novu's final gift, a living weapon capable adapting instantly to counter any threat. A sentinel suit designed for a single purpose. To protect all of existence against the ultimate enemy.

All Mandrakk has to do is drink Scathan's story dry until there's no memory of him.

Originally posted by Allankles
If you have an argument let's hear it, this doesn't qualify.

CA Supes was the embodiment of a story created to be unstoppable and indestructable. Novu's final gift, a living weapon capable adapting instantly to counter any threat. Lt is above any plot device basically though. This is still something that can be countered and Lt is arguably more powerful than the ig which was capable of anything.

Scathan rivaled the Lt in power and defeated a being who copied the Lt's powers. It's a stomp.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Lt is above any plot device basically though. This is still something that can be countered and Lt is arguably more powerful than the ig which was capable of anything.

Scathan rivaled the Lt in power and defeated a being who copied the Lt's powers. It's a stomp.

I don't think Scathan is on Lt's level but you're welcome to that idea (naturally).

It's not something that can be countered by some energy damping celestial, Novu is a super adapting story, that's what he is.

He feeds on story, the dramas, their very reality, that's what Monitors do and Novu was the greatest of Monitors, he created the Cosmic Armor before he became an outcast after all.

The only thing that affected the Monitor's was story, the overaching sagas that affect living things, this is what made them the indivduals they are now. Novu was the part of the Prime Monitor that felt contaminated by this 'story', hence the reason he wanted to devour all reality until there was nothing left but Mandrakk.

Also, LT is immune to plot devices? HOTU.

Originally posted by Allankles
I don't think Scathan is on Lt's level but you're welcome to that idea (naturally).

It's not something that can be countered by some energy damping celestial, Novu is a super adapting story, that's what he is.

He feeds on story, the dramas, their very reality, that's what Monitors do and Novu was the greatest of Monitors, he created the Cosmic Armor before he became an outcast after all.

The only thing that affected the Monitor's was story, the overaching sagas that affect living things, this is what made them the indivduals they are now. Novu was the part of the Prime Monitor that felt contaminated by this 'story', hence the reason he wanted to devour all reality until there was nothing left but Mandrakk. Protege had become powerful enough to be a threat to the entire mulitverse and even at copying Lt's powers it still wasn't enough to resist the mighty muzzle.

Imo the muzzle is all that is required.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Also, LT is immune to plot devices? HOTU. Good point. This is the only plot device out there that I can think of at the moment that can defeat him. The hotu has the best feats out of any comic I have ever read and displayed a power level that would easily defeat Mandrakk.

I for one really don't believe Scathan was above the LT at all. He never faced protege one v one. Protege was dealing with the LT and was attacked from behind and muzzled so he couldn't see and then that gave the LT time to do what he did. To me it clearly seemed like Scathan was sent there by the TOAA to do exactly what he did. LT's power had been duplicated and thus he wasn't the one authority anymore and thus Scathan was needed to preserve his role as such. Again though imo Scathan isn't above the LT.

Opinions this, opinions that ...

when the bottom Marvel fact line is ...

....

Originally posted by Mr Master

Scathan FTW.

Scathan stomped the combined power of,

GOTG (meh, but still, it was all of them)
Mephisto & his daughter Malevolence (not a wow, but no pushovers either)
post-Beyonder (multi-Universal power)
Hawkgod (a Multiversal power below Eternity)
Eternity (all that ever was, is or will be)
... and TWO freakin Living Tribunals (need I say more?)

Scathan stomped all that power with a single simple gesture.


btw. Scathan is 100% canon,
as he appeared in an official Marvel arc, (not some dumbass cross-over)
was mentioned in a separate official Marvel arc, (not another dumbass crossover)
and was referenced in Two official Marvel Handbooks (LT's and Celestials')
and both bios basically confirm Scathan's feat mentioned above.
Scathan didn't muzzle Protege from behind,
Protege was about to erase the LT, Eternity. Hawkgod and the rest,
when Scathan stomped Protege with orange flaring energy
that proceeded from Scathan as he disapproved of Protege.

The muzzle was an after affect of Scathan's decision.

Now, seriously, whoever doesn't enjoy this truth,
can just email Marvel and complain,
but please yall.
let's stop speculating with unsupported opinions over Marvel on panel,
confirmed in Marvel HandbookS,
100% canon facts.

^ You sound like those guys who are trying to sell 100% pure beef.

Ya I agree. I don't know why people are making such a big deal when Scathan was portrayed> LT on panel

Fiction is fiction I guess, so Scathan > LT.

Mandrakk still feeds on his story though.

Mandrakk would be feeding through a straw when this battle ended.

Originally posted by Enyalus

Mandrakk would be feeding through a straw when this battle ended.
.... Yur a funny guy Eny, very cool. (I literally lol)

Originally posted by Allankles
Fiction is fiction I guess, so Scathan > LT.

Mandrakk still feeds on his story though.
Wow that is such BS. By that logic you can just say that no matter what the matchup is. Mandrakk vs. TOAA? Eats his story. Mandrakk vs. your mom? Eats the story. Dumb.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Wow that is such BS. By that logic you can just say that no matter what the matchup is. Mandrakk vs. TOAA? Eats his story. Mandrakk vs. your mom? Eats the story. Dumb.

Considering what Mandrakk is.......pretty much anyone short of TOAA/The Presence is going to lose.

The original Monitor is basically the Presence. The 52 monitors are different aspects of him that he created to study the multiverse. They were changed by the nature of the stories. Dax Novu believed it was contaminating them and corrupting them. As a result, the Monitor's belief turned him into a monster that fed on the story of the multiverse. Mandrakk the Dark Monitor. And as he was beyond the monitors and part of GOD, he was unstoppable by any lesser being. The armor that Superman used to stop him was created by Dax Novu himself before his fall.

Mandrakk was a god beyond even the likes of HOTU.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Wow that is such BS. By that logic you can just say that no matter what the matchup is. Mandrakk vs. TOAA? Eats his story. Mandrakk vs. your mom? Eats the story. Dumb.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Wow that is such BS. By that logic you can just say that no matter what the matchup is. Mandrakk vs. TOAA? Eats his story. Mandrakk vs. your mom? Eats the story. Dumb.

The mom part totally made sense.

But yeah he eats fictional stories. If he's fictional Mandrakk drinks up everything that makes him exist, extinguishing him completely.

It's about to get real stupid in here.

Originally posted by Allankles
The mom part totally made sense.

But yeah he eats fictional stories. If he's fictional Mandrakk drinks up everything that makes him exist, extinguishing him completely.

i don't understand what u r saying but somehow it made me laugh..

Originally posted by Mindset
It's about to get real stupid in here.

Already has.

Yo Mindset, don't you ever sleep?

To the Monitors all of creation is miniture in scale. A fountain of story for them to feed on.

http://f.imagehost.org/t/0563/17.jpg

Here Mandrakk promises to devour all of creation.

http://f.imagehost.org/t/0710/23.jpg

No

The Monitors are fundamental beings, the authors of existence with the multiverse resulting as a "flaw" within the primal monitor, this flaw caused an infection called 'story' and from then the Monitors were forever transformed developing individual unique forms (the 52 Monitors).

That I have to explain this to people arguing for Scathan is ridiculous.

This eating story crap is making me LOL! too.

Originally posted by Allankles
The Monitors are fundamental beings, the authors of existence with the multiverse resulting as a "flaw" within the primal monitor, this flaw caused an infection called 'story' and from then the Monitors were forever transformed developing individual unique forms (the 52 Monitors).

That I have to explain this to people arguing for Scathan is ridiculous.

Whatever happened to Primal Monitor again? Primal Monitor seemed LT level.

Yikes Mr Master, at least know a little something about the character you're debating against.

Mandrakk was the embodiment of a self-assembling hyper story.
His attacks were based on big-bad-villain archtypes e.g. using the heat from all the suns in the universe as an attack etc etc.

Originally posted by cloud102
Whatever happened to Primal Monitor again? Primal Monitor seemed LT level.

http://f.imagehost.org/t/0489/FCSB3D1p28.jpg

He seals up the multiverse and his presence remains surrounding all existence.

The comic just describes him as vast and unknowable and his descendants are the Monitors. We also know that Novu (Mandrakk) was the part of the Primal Monitor that felt contaminated by story.

We also know that the infinite Ovoid is his mind (what surrounds the Monitor world) and is separated from the Multiverse by the Source wall, which is breached during FC.

Originally posted by Allankles
http://f.imagehost.org/t/0489/FCSB3D1p28.jpg

He seals up the multiverse and his presence remains surrounding all existence.

The comic just describes him as vast and unknowable and his descendants are the Monitors. We also know that Novu (Mandrakk) was the part of the Primal Monitor that felt contaminated by story.

We also know that the infinite Ovoid is his mind (what surrounds the Monitor world) and is separated from the Multiverse by the Source wall, which is breached during FC.

Damn, i love Douge's work. What level do you see the Primal Monitor on?

Originally posted by Allankles

Yikes Mr Master,
at least know a little something about the character you're debating against.
If it involves flirting with the fourth wall,
it's crap imo,
this "eating story" nonsense falls under that category imo,
because it jumps out of conventional fictional writing
and pins some drawing (Mandrakk) eating the story
that the very same drawing (Mandrakk) is on.

Ridiculous!
Originally posted by Allankles

Mandrakk was the embodiment of a self-assembling hyper story.
Which basically = to crap.
Originally posted by Allankles

His attacks were based on big-bad-villain archtypes e.g. using the heat from all the suns in the universe as an attack etc etc.
Ok, cool, this sounds more like a traditional in-comic fictional based scenario,
rather than, "he eats the story so he wins" ... which is some comedic dumb shit

Don't make me bring out She-Hulk on that ass.

Originally posted by Mr Master


This eating story crap is making me LOL! too.

In regards to silliness, its right up there with takion being an "avatar of the ultimate concept" and having no need for feats or Mxy defeating LT by ripping him off the page.

Originally posted by Mr Master
If it involves flirting with the fourth wall,
it's crap imo,
this "eating story" nonsense falls under that category imo,
because it jumps out of conventional fictional writing
and pins some drawing (Mandrakk) eating the story
that the very same drawing (Mandrakk) is on.

Ridiculous!

Which basically = to crap.

Ok, cool, this sounds more like a traditional in-comic fictional based scenario,
rather than, "he eats the story so he wins" ... which is some comedic dumb shit

Don't make me bring out She-Hulk on that ass.

She-Hulk eats story?

Originally posted by cloud102

She-Hulk eats story?
No ...

She-Hulk controls the people making up the stories, (equally stupid)
so basically, no matter what Mandrakk was according to some writer,
She-Hulk can alter that by simply choking said writer into submitting to her demands.

Because hey,
She-Hulk can take the page she's on
and rip the panels/colors and text from said page,
crumble it, trash it, and burn it for the win.

So, Mandrakk "eats story" ... while She-Hulk "controls story" ... dur

... and as the saying goes ... "if you control a thing, you can destroy a thing."

Originally posted by Mindset
It's about to get real stupid in here.

About to ? With a few exceptions, it has been that way from the start.

Originally posted by Mr Master
No ...

She-Hulk controls the people making up the stories, (equally stupid)
so basically, no matter what Mandrakk was according to some writer,
She-Hulk can alter that by simply choking said writer into submitting to her demands.

Because hey,
She-Hulk can take the page she's on
and rip the panels/colors and text from said page,
crumble it, trash it, and burn it for the win.

So, Mandrakk "eats story" ... while She-Hulk "controls story" ... dur

... and as the saying goes ... "if you control a thing, you can destroy a thing."

Dayum! She-Hulk > Scathan & LT!

Originally posted by Mr Master
No ...

She-Hulk controls the people making up the stories, (equally stupid)
so basically, no matter what Mandrakk was according to some writer,
She-Hulk can alter that by simply choking said writer into submitting to her demands.

Because hey,
She-Hulk can take the page she's on
and rip the panels/colors and text from said page,
crumble it, trash it, and burn it for the win.

So, Mandrakk "eats story" ... while She-Hulk "controls story" ... dur

... and as the saying goes ... "if you control a thing, you can destroy a thing."

Mr. Master and the She-Hulk argument again. Last I checked gamma irradiated bickini models don't feed on story for sustenance, neither is 4th wall interference on a personal story via editor avatars part of a powerset.

Monitor's are vampire gods that draw sustenance from the narratives that shape creation, that is simply who they are, you may not like it but that's the way it is.

Very different from She Hulk-Loboesque 4th wall antics, those incidents aren't part of the essentials of the characters, they are both bricks.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Considering what Mandrakk is.......pretty much anyone short of TOAA/The Presence is going to lose.

The original Monitor is basically the Presence. The 52 monitors are different aspects of him that he created to study the multiverse. They were changed by the nature of the stories. Dax Novu believed it was contaminating them and corrupting them. As a result, the Monitor's belief turned him into a monster that fed on the story of the multiverse. Mandrakk the Dark Monitor. And as he was beyond the monitors and part of GOD, he was unstoppable by any lesser being. The armor that Superman used to stop him was created by Dax Novu himself before his fall.

Mandrakk was a god beyond even the likes of HOTU. No, Mandrakk wasn't actually. The hotu was undefeatable on panel while Mandrakk wasn't. Mandrak also doesn't have the on panel feats to defeat even Eternity imo.

Originally posted by Allankles
Yikes Mr Master, at least know a little something about the character you're debating against.

Mandrakk was the embodiment of a self-assembling hyper story.
His attacks were based on big-bad-villain archtypes e.g. using the heat from all the suns in the universe as an attack etc etc. You keep statin the same things over and over again. Mxy has gone outside the comic as has she hulk but that doesn't mean they defeat the Lt.

Mandrakk was in the comic and was defeatable inside the comic. She Hulk was more powerful as was Mxy in that regard to your logic and reasoning.Originally posted by Allankles
Mr. Master and the She-Hulk argument again. Last I checked gamma irradiated bickini models don't feed on story for sustenance, neither is 4th wall interference on a personal story via editor avatars part of a powerset.

Monitor's are vampire gods that draw sustenance from the narratives that shape creation, that is simply who they are, you may not like it but that's the way it is.

Very different from She Hulk-Loboesque 4th wall antics, those incidents aren't part of the essentials of the characters, they are both bricks. She doesn't have to feed on the story. That sounds like a weakness to me. She Hulk can leave the comic and tear it up which is something Mandrakk cannot do. Even on this sort of weird logic you seem to argue you still lose and to the likes of she hulk.Originally posted by cloud102
Dayum! She-Hulk > Scathan & LT! Not really. He is throwing his same rationale back in his face.

Originally posted by Naija boy
In regards to silliness, its right up there with takion being an "avatar of the ultimate concept" and having no need for feats or Mxy defeating LT by ripping him off the page.

What the...? I thought our argument over Takion was over?

And I already told you he has feats, on panel evidence he can control any force (speed force, quantum field, will power spectrum energy) anything with the exception of non universal powers like Supes solar absorption.

So Qwardian energy, Fire Storm Matrix all is fair game. I showed you scans and gave you issue no.s I can't beleive you're still talking about that.

Originally posted by Allankles
What the...? I thought our argument over Takion was over?

And I already told you he has feats, on panel evidence he can control any force (speed force, quantum field, will power spectrum energy) anything with the exception of non universal powers like Supes solar absorption.

So Qwardian energy, Fire Storm Matrix all is fair game. I showed you scans and gave you issue no.s I can't beleive you're still talking about that. No, the only thing that is fair game is what he has actually done. Takion has done nothing even close to Iman as the Source's agents level and he wasn't mightier than Gog from jsa imo but more or less a peer.

Originally posted by quanchi112
She Hulk can leave the comic and tear it up which is something Mandrakk cannot do.

Tearing up the comic is irrelevant when we're talking fictional characters. It's not part of her powerset to do that, having 4th wall antics doesn't mean it's an essential part of her character.

It doesn't change the fact that she's a brick without any reality hoppin powers.

Mxy is a little different because it is part of his powerset to reality hop, but again he doesn't embody or feed on narrative.

I mean did you actually read Superman Beyond?

The Monitors were part of the Supreme Being and were infected by the stories of the multiverse, a multiverse which grew from inside the Primal Monitor.

This thing called story, changed the essential nature of their being, turning them into the individual vampire gods they are now.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, the only thing that is fair game is what he has actually done. Takion has done nothing even close to Iman as the Source's agents level and he wasn't mightier than Gog from jsa imo but more or less a peer.

It's already been confirmed that he can control universal forces. Search for Takion vs In Betweener, I posted the scans and issue numbers on that thread.

You'll be wasting your time if your argument is that Takion can't control universal forces given that he's controlled the ones I have listed, not to mention his creator confirming his abilities in the same comic.

Originally posted by Allankles
Tearing up the comic is irrelevant when we're talking fictional characters. It's not part of her powerset to do that, having 4th wall antics doesn't mean it's an essential part of her character.

It doesn't change the fact that she's a brick without any reality hoppin powers.

Mxy is a little different because it is part of his powerset to reality hop, but again he doesn't embody or feed on narrative.

I mean did you actually read Superman Beyond?

The Monitors were part of the Supreme Being and were infected by the stories of the multiverse, a multiverse which grew from inside the Primal Monitor.

This thing called story, changed the essential nature of their being, turning them into the individual vampire gods they are now. No, it isn't. It happened in the comic so according to your rationale She Hulk and Mxy can easily jump outside the story for the easy win.


Mandrakk cannot. It's really simple based on what these characters have actually done.

Originally posted by cloud102
Damn, i love Douge's work. What level do you see the Primal Monitor on?

He's the Supreme being in DC, he's got many aspects (as we see with Dax Novu) and is described as vast and unknowable.

Originally posted by Allankles
It's already been confirmed that he can control universal forces. Search for Takion vs In Betweener, I posted the scans and issue numbers on that thread.

You'll be wasting your time if your argument is that Takion can't control universal forces given that he's controlled the ones I have listed, not to mention his creator confirming his abilities in the same comic. So can the Surfer so I fail to see your point?


What has he done that proves he is above the Surfer's level?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Considering what Mandrakk is.......pretty much anyone short of TOAA/The Presence is going to lose.

The original Monitor is basically the Presence. The 52 monitors are different aspects of him that he created to study the multiverse. They were changed by the nature of the stories. Dax Novu believed it was contaminating them and corrupting them. As a result, the Monitor's belief turned him into a monster that fed on the story of the multiverse. Mandrakk the Dark Monitor. And as he was beyond the monitors and part of GOD, he was unstoppable by any lesser being. The armor that Superman used to stop him was created by Dax Novu himself before his fall.

Mandrakk was a god beyond even the likes of HOTU.

Did you just imply Mandrakk would be beyond the HOTU. Nothing Mandrakk did on panel was even close to what Thanos did with the HOTU. Not only would the LT dispose of Mandrakk imo but at best they would stalemate. However, the HOTU wtf pwns mr. I got dealt with by superman and some GL's

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, it isn't. It happened in the comic so according to your rationale She Hulk and Mxy can easily jump outside the story for the easy win.


Mandrakk cannot. It's really simple based on what these characters have actually done.

Everything in the comic is the narrative, there's no "outside" for these fictional characters and the Monitors don't jump "outside" they merely feed on the stories that make up the dc multiverse. Narrative is narrative.

edit: that's why I said reality hoping isn't part of she hulk's powerset within the confines of her fictional existence, she's a hulk. At least with Mxy it's perfectly within his 5 dimensional abilities.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So can the Surfer so I fail to see your point?


What has he done that proves he is above the Surfer's level?

So can the Surfer do what? The Surfer can manip the will power spectrum, the quantum field, the speed force? He can manip a power not tied to the PC? ( I hope you didn't mean the fantastic four)

The difference is Takion manips the essence of what makes all those powers come to be. Magic or otherwise, all those forces are from the Source.

EDIT: Again go to the Takion vs Inbetweener thread Inbetwweener might have been spelled with I-B or something of the sought. Either way you have enough for a search. I've been over this before, head to the relevant thread.

Originally posted by Allankles

Tearing up the comic is irrelevant when we're talking fictional characters. It's not part of her powerset to do that, having 4th wall antics doesn't mean it's an essential part of her character.
Wrong.

Classic She-Hulk during Byrne's 60 issue run was overwhelmed with 4th wall destruction.

And, it is actually part of She-Hulk's powerset
to know she's being watched by human beings, (basically she knows what she is & where she's at)
it's literally mentioned in her official Marvel Handbook 09' bio.

But that aside,
she's written more seriously now, but ...
if you wanna come with this "eating/feeding" on story whatever googoo,
then I'll just have Scathan re-create Byrne's She-Hulk and that will settle things.

Originally posted by Allankles
Everything in the comic is the narrative, there's no "outside" for these fictional characters and the Monitors don't jump "outside" they merely feed on the stories that make up the dc multiverse. Narrative is narrative.

edit: that's why I said reality hoping isn't part of she hulk's powerset within the confines of her fictional existence, she's a hulk. At least with Mxy it's perfectly within his 5 dimensional abilities. For <Mandrakk maybe but not for the likes of she hulk and mxy. Mandrakk can be defeated in the story as well.



Yes, it is. She did it. It's like you want to ignore everything and continue to recite the eating story crap and when someone proves to you that she can jump out it you cry foul.

Originally posted by Allankles
So can the Surfer do what? The Surfer can manip the will power spectrum, the quantum field, the speed force? He can manip a power not tied to the PC? ( I hope you didn't mean the fantastic four)

The difference is Takion manips the essence of what makes all those powers come to be. Magic or otherwise, all those forces are from the Source.

EDIT: Again go to the Takion vs Inbetweener thread Inbetwweener might have been spelled with I-B or something of the sought. Either way you have enough for a search. I've been over this before, head to the relevant thread. That is from the dc universe. Takion cannot manipulate things from the marvel verse while the surfer cannot manipulate from the dc universe.

Takion still can't take down Imperiex, the Spectre, etc. You haven't proven he is the badass you claim him to be but more or less another Surfer type character.

I proved my points. I am done with it since you want to give it up.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Wrong.

Classic She-Hulk during Byrne's 60 issue run was overwhelmed with 4th wall destruction.

And, it is actually part of She-Hulk's powerset
to know she's being watched by human beings, (basically she knows what she is & where she's at)
it's literally mentioned in her official Marvel Handbook 09' bio.

But that aside,
she's written more seriously now, but ...
if you wanna come with this "eating/feeding" on story whatever googoo,
then I'll just have Scathan re-create Byrne's She-Hulk and that will settle things.

I know from experience there's no winning this debate with you. But I know you know what I mean when I say it's not an essential part of her character. Otherwise Banner would be doing the same.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That is from the dc universe. Takion cannot manipulate things from the marvel verse while the surfer cannot manipulate from the dc universe.

Takion still can't take down Imperiex, the Spectre, etc. You haven't proven he is the badass you claim him to be but more or less another Surfer type character.

I proved my points. I am done with it since you want to give it up.

Go to the thread. Everything down to the actual limits of his abilities are explained. The only thing holding back Takion's abilities is the degree of Sander's will.

EDIT: And as far as maniping Marvel forces that goes without saying, but in a vs setting if we choose to eliminate those restrictions it would be a perfectly viable outcome. Hence the IG vs (insert non Marvel foe) threads which i'm sure you've participated in.

Originally posted by Allankles
What the...? I thought our argument over Takion was over?

And I already told you he has feats, on panel evidence he can control any force (speed force, quantum field, will power spectrum energy) anything with the exception of non universal powers like Supes solar absorption.

So Qwardian energy, Fire Storm Matrix all is fair game. I showed you scans and gave you issue no.s I can't beleive you're still talking about that.

lolwut? U showed nothing that put him above trans level let alone abstract. U continuously misrepresented feats,left out context contradicted urself, and tried to be deliberately equivocal in order to twist the true purpose of the argument.

At best all u did was confirm his placement in the trans tier. If u think u somehow justified ur initial laughable claim........id advise u to try and see how many people u convinced he is abstract level.

Back on topic, Scathan FTW.

Originally posted by Mr Master
This eating story crap is making me LOL! too. The methods in which Mandrakk is being described in this thread are... eccentric (to say the least)... But there is some truth behind the words.

You see, Mandrakk's power is quite unquantifiable. He does in fact feed off the continuously evolving hyper-story of DC itself. Not only that, but he had also been feeding off the Bleed for an untold amount of time - almost killing the multiverse in the process. That's the level this guy operates at.

This is why it not only took a 'thought robot' capable of instantly adapting to combat any threat (inc. Mandrakk's "eternal power":

http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/1691141_s1.jpg


But this 'thought robot' had to be powered/animated by a being who's conceptual story was more powerful than Mandrakk's. That's why it could only be Superman:

http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/1691142_s2.jpg

----

I'd also like to add that along with simultaneously owning/feeding on Spectre and Radiant, Mandrakk also killed another Monitor with ease:

http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/1691140_m1.jpg

I feel that the above scan may be pertinent, because as you know, Monitors are capable of withstanding big bangs at ground zero, with no ill-effect - yet Mandrakk fried one effortlessly. *shrug*


Anyhow, that was in no way an argument meant to describe my feelings as to how Mandrakk might take this battle. I was just giving you some unbiased clarification, is all.

Originally posted by Naija boy
lolwut? U showed nothing that put him above trans level let alone abstract. U continuously misrepresented feats,left out context contradicted urself, and tried to be deliberately equivocal in order to twist the true purpose of the argument.

At best all u did was confirm his placement in the trans tier. If u think u somehow justified ur initial laughable claim........id advise u to try and see how many people u convinced he is abstract level.

Back on topic, Scathan FTW.

I gave you the relevant scans that confirmed he was abstract, I wasn't being equivocal. Of course if you deliberately chose not to check out the scans, a pointless circular argument ensues.

Originally posted by Galan007

Anyhow, that was in no way an argument meant to describe my feelings as to how Mandrakk might take this battle. I was just giving you some unbiased clarification, is all.



I'm pretty unbiased on this subject, I'm no fan of either participant here. *shrug*

Originally posted by Allankles
I gave you the relevant scans that confirmed he was abstract, I wasn't being equivocal. Of course if you deliberately chose not to check out the scans, a pointless circular argument ensues.

yawnyawn

Energy Muzzle ftw.

Originally posted by Allankles
Go to the thread. Everything down to the actual limits of his abilities are explained. The only thing holding back Takion's abilities is the degree of Sander's will.

EDIT: And as far as maniping Marvel forces that goes without saying, but in a vs setting if we choose to eliminate those restrictions it would be a perfectly viable outcome. Hence the IG vs (insert non Marvel foe) threads which i'm sure you've participated in. Takion still is nowhere near as powerful as the Iman as the source's agent or Mxy, etc. He is like a Surfer character that you are massively overrating.

Originally posted by Mr Master
.... Yur a funny guy Eny, very cool. (I literally lol)

I finally discovered your real identity, Mr. M!

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Shooter1.jpg

Ha. Betcha didn't know I knew, didja?






Scathan wins. Also, HOTU >> Mandrakk as well.

OMG! That's Bruce Allan Borchers!

Originally posted by cloud102
OMG! That's Bruce Allan Borchers!

...Wha?

No.

Originally posted by Enyalus
...Wha?

No.

I was kidding, but that guy seriously looks like him. A customer I once knew while working at a video store. He was hella creepy.

Originally posted by cloud102
I was kidding, but that guy seriously looks like him. A customer I once knew while working at a video store. He was hella creepy.

Ah, lol.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Takion still is nowhere near as powerful as the Iman as the source's agent or Mxy, etc. He is like a Surfer character that you are massively overrating.

What does IM have to do with anything? That was a poor Starlin story and IM was given special power by the Source itself to be able to kill Takion.

That had nothing to do with IM but the Source, you know... the thing that makes Takion Takion. You're really using a poor example here, of course there aren't any other examples.

Originally posted by Allankles
What does IM have to do with anything? That was a poor Starlin story and IM was given special power by the Source itself to be able to kill Takion.

That had nothing to do with IM but the Source, you know... the thing that makes Takion Takion. You're really using a poor example here, of course there aren't any other examples. It's still canon and shows what the Source is capable to at a much higher level than anything that Takion has mustered.

Im clearly showed far more power than anything Takion has ever shown.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It's still canon and shows what the Source is capable to at a much higher level than anything that Takion has mustered.

Im clearly showed far more power than anything Takion has ever shown.

RETCONNED! Starlin's bogus version of the new gods is irrelevant. Morrison laid the hammer down on it.

Also, you're gonna compare the Source cutting off Takion's power and overpowering him, as a low showing? That's called outside interference/amp.

So does anyone have any proof of Scathan's actual battle power other than his one plot device victory?

Mandrakk

Originally posted by Avlon
So does anyone have any proof of Scathan's actual battle power other than his one plot device victory?

That's..........pretty much his only showing.

All he needs is one showing.

As opposed to Mandrakk's...three showings? Or Primal Monitor's one?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
RETCONNED! Starlin's bogus version of the new gods is irrelevant. Morrison laid the hammer down on it.

Also, you're gonna compare the Source cutting off Takion's power and overpowering him, as a low showing? That's called outside interference/amp. When did Morrison retcon this?

The point is Takion has only done thing similar to a silver surfer type character. He has no impressive feats to suggest he can even defeat the Surfer imo.

All in all it's described as a rushed mess because dc couldn't work together and figure out continuity. It's really sad and this is another of the continuity problems that plagues dc. The ink barely dried on death and countdown and fc was already being written.

Excuse me? FC was being written FIRST. The problems in continuity are because Didio and Starlin didn't listen to Grant's requests. Starlin was the one who wanted to do a new gods story despite Grant specifically requesting that they not touch them in preparation for FC.

There is only a continuity problem if you insist on using DOTNG or Countdown. DOTNG was garbage, as was countdown.

Also: this is the 5th time I've had to correct you about DOTNG being retconned.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Excuse me? FC was being written FIRST. The problems in continuity are because Didio and Starlin didn't listen to Grant's requests. Starlin was the one who wanted to do a new gods story despite Grant specifically requesting that they not touch them in preparation for FC.

There is only a continuity problem if you insist on using DOTNG or Countdown. DOTNG was garbage, as was countdown.

Also: this is the 5th time I've had to correct you about DOTNG being retconned. Didio is the moron who runs dc. It's his fault. Starlin did an excellent job on death of the new gods. I think that series was much better than fc.

It wasn't retconned. It still happened and morrison even admits it. It was bad timing and the dc readers really suffered because of it.

Nah, DONG was pretty bad. And I was expecting to like it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Didio is the moron who runs dc. It's his fault. Starlin did an excellent job on death of the new gods. I think that series was much better than fc.

It wasn't retconned. It still happened and morrison even admits it. It was bad timing and the dc readers really suffered because of it.

Quan you act like this is the first time someone has shown you this stuff . It still happened but everything that did happen was retconned into what Superman and the reader could only comprehend. DONG and FC was both good and showed DS was a beast. Mandrakk and Darkseid (nearly dead) fighting Superman and both nearly took control of life/multiverse and had there own ways of going about it.

And if we add Superboy Prime in FC LO3W (still running) he stopped 3.

Originally posted by kevdude
Quan you act like this is the first time someone has shown you this stuff . It still happened but everything that did happen was retconned into what Superman and the reader could only comprehend. DONG and FC was both good and showed DS was a beast. Mandrakk and Darkseid (nearly dead) fighting Superman and both nearly took control of life/multiverse and had there own ways of going about it. Yes I have seen it, but nothing was retconned. That's the point.

You stinking liar. I just showed you proof of the retcons before your very eyes, ON THIS DAMN PAGE.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
You stinking liar. I just showed you proof of the retcons before your very eyes, ON THIS DAMN PAGE. It wasn't a retcon as those events did take place. It's just horrible timing of dc and how they plan for big events.

Mandrakk

Scathan was full of PIS

Originally posted by quanchi112
It wasn't a retcon as those events did take place. It's just horrible timing of dc and how they plan for big events.

Some of the events was what we understood some wasn't all correct as they are on a higher plane of reality, The Source and the Anti-Life Entity being rectonned into being not what was true, even the part where the ALE was split from The Source makes not much sense as The Source contains all things and everything is made by it including the ALE and LE.

Originally posted by kevdude
Some of the events was what we understood some wasn't all correct as they are on a higher plane of reality, The Source and the Anti-Life Entity being rectonned into being not what was true, even the part where the ALE was split from The Source makes not much sense as The Source contains all things and everything is made by it including the ALE and LE. They weren't retconned. I read it and morrison went about his story not knowing what occurred in the other story.

It is all canon.

Don't care.

Scathan wins with a gesture.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They weren't retconned. I read it and morrison went about his story not knowing what occurred in the other story.

It is all canon.

In FC Secret Files it retconned it away Quan, Morrison himself said not to mess with the New Gods as he already was planning for FC and all the events pertaining to it

Morrison says,

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/fantomex005/img1368.jpg http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/fantomex005/hspjpjcf.gif

Originally posted by cloud102
Morrison says,

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/fantomex005/img1368.jpg http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/fantomex005/hspjpjcf.gif

Lmao

Originally posted by kevdude
In FC Secret Files it retconned it away Quan, Morrison himself said not to mess with the New Gods as he already was planning for FC and all the events pertaining to it He also said that the events happened and that he proceeded on ahead with fc despite these stories.

FC was being written first.............

He said SOMETHING happened. And that what we saw was only what Superman and co. could comprehend. It took place on a higher level beyond what we saw.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
FC was being written first.............

He said SOMETHING happened. And that what we saw was only what Superman and co. could comprehend. It took place on a higher level beyond what we saw. We saw what happened and this was his explanation to explain why these characters had no memory of this. Morrison had to address this sooner or later. Dc needs to get their heads out of the sand here.

Energy Muzzle ftw.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We saw what happened and this was his explanation to explain why these characters had no memory of this. Morrison had to address this sooner or later. Dc needs to get their heads out of the sand here.

Quan, either admit there was a retcon, OR SHUT UP.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Quan, either admit there was a retcon, OR SHUT UP. I read it and see no retcon.

mandrakk

i hate reading about these characters, here and comics