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I dunno know, I jst got bored & decided to make this.


1. Revan & Malak
2. Darth Maul & Darth Vader
3. ROTS Anakin & Dooku
3. Galen Marek & DE Luke
4. Yoda & Non-Orbalisk Bane
5. LoTF Luke & Orbalisk Bane

Stops at 3, if not then 4.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Stops at 3, if not then 4.
Which 3? There are two of them!
I'm guessing you mean Galen and Luke .

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Stops at 3, if not then 4.

They get past the first 3.

4. This is interesting, I see Caedus facing off against Marek while Mace faces Luke. I'm no Luke expert but he is definitely skilled enough to face Mace. There battle could go either way and the winner of this will help their ally beat Caedus or Marek. Should Mace face Marek and Caedus face Luke then it comes downs to who beats their opponent first. So basically this comes down to who is more powerful, DE Luke or Mace because I see Caedus and Marek being about the same. 50/50 shot unless someone fills me in.

5.Yoda & Non-Orbalisk Bane

There is no way of using "Non-Orbalisk Bane" unless its POD Bane, which in that it case I see the Caedus or Mace killing Bane then double teaming Yoda.

6.I don't see them clearing it.

To expand on Hunter...Either of them could likely kill Marek, and they'd swiftly take care of Luke. 5...same thing with Bane as the weak link. For 6...Mace or Caedus COULD kill Bane...but Luke makes the battle borderline unwinnable for them.

By 3 I meant Galen and Luke.

I think 6 is just about impossible for any duo to take. but for these two specifically bane will just tank everything while Luke just owns his nephew

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
I think 6 is just about impossible for any duo to take. but for these two specifically bane will just tank everything while Luke just owns his nephew
The only weakness i've seen the Orbalisks have is lightening (RoT).
Question, how would Shatterpoint fair, if at all?
Only reason I ask is because Bane is the only one at this point who doesn't know the technique.

Caedus wouldn't last long at all if we use the battle on the Anakin Solo for reference.

Actually he uses the technique against Sirak in PoD.

PoD, page 169:

"With the surge and swell of each exchange Bane gently prodded with the Force, testing and searching for a weakness he could exploit."

With orbalisk armour he could withstand anything but lightning his orbalisks got fried becasuse a jedi put a shield around bane causing the lightning to just hit bane.

Read Rule of Two

Originally posted by Darth Rex
With orbalisk armour he could withstand anything but lightning his orbalisks got fried becasuse a jedi put a shield around bane causing the lightning to just hit bane.

Read Rule of Two
I own it I was just asking about Shatterpoint.Originally posted by MUMS'XER
Actually he uses the technique against Sirak in PoD.

PoD, page 169:

"With the surge and swell of each exchange Bane gently prodded with the Force, testing and searching for a weakness he could exploit."
Thanks, I guess i didn't pick up on it as it wasn't named.

I think that quotes stretching it a bit.

Originally posted by MUMS'XER
Actually he uses the technique against Sirak in PoD.

PoD, page 169:

"With the surge and swell of each exchange Bane gently prodded with the Force, testing and searching for a weakness he could exploit."

Explain to me how this implies that he knows the shatterpoint, and not that he was just looking for some kind of weakness.

Originally posted by Gaevus Mesias
I dunno know, I jst got bored & decided to make this.


1. Revan & Malak
2. Darth Maul & Darth Vader
3. ROTS Anakin & Dooku
3. Galen Marek & DE Luke
4. Yoda & Non-Orbalisk Bane
5. LoTF Luke & Orbalisk Bane

They'd get up to 4. Caedus would do well against Malek i recon.

As for Mace against DE Luke, he'd have trouble. He had trouble working Palpatine out in RotS and he had to turn to Vaapad. I recon he'd blag it for the first couple of minutes and turn to Vaapad, then Luke would have some compatition.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I think that quotes stretching it a bit.
What i thought but then quotse are stretched all the time.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Explain to me how this implies that he knows the shatterpoint, and not that he was just looking for some kind of weakness.

That's what the ability is, searching for weaknesses with the Force. Mace notes early on in Shatterpoint that numerous Jedi were capable of using the technique.

Originally posted by MUMS'XER
That's what the ability is, searching for weaknesses with the Force. Mace notes early on in Shatterpoint that numerous Jedi were capable of using the technique.
True, then it goes on to say something like whereas some struggle to do it it comes naturally to Mace or something along those lines?

Yeah I think so lol.

That's not Shatterpoint, it's the basic damn force techniques of examining one's opponent.
Shatterpoint isn't 'feeling for weaknesses,' it's intuitively feeling exactly what to do or where to strike to bring the whole thing crashing down. It's intuitively seeing the flaws

Oh, and Bane's not a Jedi

Originally posted by Lightsnake
That's not Shatterpoint, it's the basic damn force techniques of examining one's opponent.
Shatterpoint isn't 'feeling for weaknesses,' it's intuitively feeling exactly what to do or where to strike to bring the whole thing crashing down. It's intuitively seeing the flaws

Oh, and Bane's not a Jedi

Thank you.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
That's not Shatterpoint, it's the basic damn force techniques of examining one's opponent.

If what you're suggesting was necessarily the case (which it isn't, you're reaching a false conclusion from the text as usual, as all that is said and can be proven was that he was using the force to test for weaknesses, not that he was necessarily examining his opponent), all that would mean was that Bane was using a more advanced technique that not only allows him to see weaknesses (which we know he can definitely do, as that's exactly what he was doing), but examine something in its entirety. Even going by your interpretation, my statement still stands; he was carrying out the technique of examining a subject's weakness, only it comes as an extension of a more advanced technique. Going by my interpretation, my statement still stands; he was carrying out the technique of examining a subject's weakness.

Either way, I win, and you continue to look like an angry buffoon.



it's intuitively feeling exactly what to do or where to strike to bring the whole thing crashing down.

All you're doing here is describing exactly what "feeling for weaknesses" actually is, only in a more extended manner with different wording. "Exactly what to do" or "exactly where to strike" would both qualify as weaknesses if they "bring the whole thing crashing down".



The words "flaw" and "weakness" are entirely synonymous. Again, all you're doing is stating the same thing I was, using different vocabulary. At least this time you were somewhat concise, but there's still no excuse for such blatant foolery.



Nobody made such a claim. The point was to inform others that may have been under the impression that the technique was something largely obscure (which people have been in the past, believing the technique was exclusive to Mace Windu), that it clearly wasn't. I feel obligated to inform people of the not-so-well-known facts. I'm considerate like that.

Definitely must be Nebaris. Only that moron could lie to himself and look hilarious doing it.

Lightsnake informs me that he is on his way.

He will be with us shortly.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Definitely must be Nebaris. Only that moron could lie to himself and look hilarious doing it.

May I ask where I am lying to myself? Specifically.

Hmm isn't Darth Sexy a yellow lightbulb member? Yet only 5 minutes after his post, no yellow lightbulb... Hmmm... How strange. Hmm indead. I am forced to come to the conclusion that Darth Sexy has intentionally logged off or turned on the invisible setting so as to give the impression that he is not in a position to see my reply to relieve him of the insurmountable task of actually explaining his mad ramblings.

Never, EVER insult his mad ramblings. He's too handsome to say anything otherwise.


Wait...

Originally posted by MUMS'XER
If what you're suggesting was necessarily the case (which it isn't, you're reaching a false conclusion from the text as usual, as all that is said and can be proven was that he was using the force to test for weaknesses, not that he was necessarily examining his opponent), all that would mean was that Bane was using a more advanced technique that not only allows him to see weaknesses (which we know he can definitely do, as that's exactly what he was doing), but examine something in its entirety. Even going by your interpretation, my statement still stands; he was carrying out the technique of examining a subject's weakness, only it comes as an extension of a more advanced technique. Going by my interpretation, my statement still stands; he was carrying out the technique of examining a subject's weakness.

you mean he was doing basic force techniques? Like in the book 'Lightsabers' in the Young Jedi Knights series where the sparring trainees use the Force to search out weaknesses in their opponents?
Know what a difference is, Nebby? Shatterpoint doesn't have to use the force to seek it out. They can generally see it as a glance. Like Jacen, Mace or Cade. .
OMG, he was using a technique of seeking out weaknesses! This is REALLY Shatterpoint despite not having the same method or effect!



"He used something totally different than what I claim he did! PROOF!"



No, one is using the Force to actively view the opponent and trying to gauge weaknesses. It is not the single place or area to strike that will end the fight. Bane does not see the fault lines in objects, opponents or scenarios like Mace, Jacen or Cade do. It is not described the same, the effect is not the same...in other words It's not the same.
We've seen plenty opponents examine their opponents to gauge them through the Force. It's not new.



You fail to understand, or you just don't want to. Did you miss the ;intuitively seeing?'



Did you not notice someone else saying Mace said that other Jedi had it?

Nobody ever claimed it was exclusive to Mace. As far as we know, the only people to use it have had Jedi training, or trained under those who knew it.

Originally posted by MUMS'XER
Hmm isn't Darth Sexy a yellow lightbulb member? Yet only 5 minutes after his post, no yellow lightbulb... Hmmm... How strange. Hmm indead. I am forced to come to the conclusion that Darth Sexy has intentionally logged off or turned on the invisible setting so as to give the impression that he is not in a position to see my reply to relieve him of the insurmountable task of actually explaining his mad ramblings.

Yawn. After 30+ bans and embarrassing yourself with virtually ever post, I would have thought you were smart enough to take the hint. Apparently not.

Shatterpoint, as defined by the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, P-Z, page 144:



Meanwhile, the Revenge of the Sith novelization (page 146) gives us the following passage on the shatterpoint charism:





This does not come close to describing the shatterpoint charism as we know it. It's a complete generalization; Bane using Force perception to seek out an enemy's weakness does not constitute the same ability as used by Mace Windu or Darth Caedus; to compare these two passages and these two abilities is like comparing the amulet blasts of Exar Kun to the Force lightning of Darth Sidious. Generalized, they are nearly identical: both are blasts of energy emitted from hands capable of killing enemies; in reality, they are both completely different techniques.

There's nothing conclusive to suggest that they are the same. And even if one were to contend that they are, the logical conclusion is that Bane is not remotely as advanced compared to Mace Windu.

damn, bad typo. jst ignore it

BTW, what was Nebaris's/Noobaris's/whatever you call him/her's original username? How did he originally get banned? And what fan is he? Sometimes he's a Revan fanboy, then Bane, then Caedus etc etc...

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
BTW, what was Nebaris's/Noobaris's/whatever you call him/her's original username? How did he originally get banned? And what fan is he? Sometimes he's a Revan fanboy, then Bane, then Caedus etc etc... It was GM Nebaris. He specialized in Bane lovin'.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
It was GM Nebaris. He specialized in Bane lovin'.
So many things make sense now!
*Has an epiphany*
Is that why he speaks so much sh!t?
As he's had his head up Bane's ass?

It's a her for the record....

Edit - Gideon, Sexy, Lightsnake, and Gaevus, I will get to your points in due course.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
It was GM Nebaris. He specialized in Bane lovin'.

Don't forget Darth Sion....

But ... Sion is immortal right ? Only the Exile or Traya could,can and will ever be able to beat him.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
But ... Sion is immortal right ? Only the Exile or Traya could,can and will ever be able to beat him.

Surely he can just withstand a hell of a lot of pain...because of his scars

Originally posted by CadoAngelus
Surely he can just withstand a hell of a lot of pain...because of his scars
Yeh, but i'd like to see how long he'd last in/against.

1)The centre of a star.
2) A black hole.
3) DE Sidious's Force Storm.
4) Coleman Trebor 1 on 1.

It's likely his body would get destroyed and he'd live on in spirit form given how we know his ability extends beyond the physical plane.

Edit: I've never really been a fan of Sion and Nihilus' characters, I just acknowledge them as both being absurdly and uniquely powerful. And I don't recall being a fan of Bane back in those days.

Sion's not really that powerful, per se. He's just got a helluva trick.

you kill sion by attacking his will. Thats how the exile did it so i know people like sids yoda and probably revan would be able to do kill sion among others

bye bye nebaris

Nihilus is absurdly powerful. Sion is not. Proficiency in one particular area does not make one proficient in all aspects; and that goes for anything. There's a fine line between a savant and a genius. Sion, for all intents and purposes, is a savant: notable skill in only one particular form.

Sion's invulnerability isn't absolute, either. He combines his powerful will with the dark energies of environments strong in the dark side. That's it. Not to mention that his will is capable of being broken; two glaring deficits and means by which an enemy can defeat him.

And as far as him surviving as a spirit, that isn't likely. There are only a handful of Dark Lords of the Sith to do it; powerful spirits like Kun and Ragnos required artifacts and locations to anchor themselves. Only Palpatine survived as a spirit without the same limitation.

Yeah, it says something that Sion has one thing going for him that's really just a gameplay mechanic of 'regenerating hit points'
Behead him, incinerate him, disable him, or block him from the force? Victory.

Sion's a one trick pony and apparently most of what he does is due to being an assassin. IE: Someone who strikes from the shadows.

How do you disable him?

Originally posted by Gideon
And as far as him surviving as a spirit, that isn't likely. There are only a handful of Dark Lords of the Sith to do it; powerful spirits like Kun and Ragnos required artifacts and locations to anchor themselves. Only Palpatine survived as a spirit without the same limitation.

What about Nadd?

Originally posted by Gideon
Shatterpoint, as defined by the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, P-Z, page 144:



Meanwhile, the Revenge of the Sith novelization (page 146) gives us the following passage on the shatterpoint charism:





This does not come close to describing the shatterpoint charism as we know it. It's a complete generalization; Bane using Force perception to seek out an enemy's weakness does not constitute the same ability as used by Mace Windu or Darth Caedus; to compare these two passages and these two abilities is like comparing the amulet blasts of Exar Kun to the Force lightning of Darth Sidious. Generalized, they are nearly identical: both are blasts of energy emitted from hands capable of killing enemies; in reality, they are both completely different techniques.

There's nothing conclusive to suggest that they are the same.

The difference being that energy can take a number of different shapes and forms whereas detecting weak points using supernatural perceptions is of a far more singular nature and can only really manifest itself in one manner. It wasn't a generalisation as far as the knowledge I possessed at hand and the knowledge that had been presented to me, and it would appear that the RotS novelisation expands on the ability more so than the very book named after the technique which was where I was getting my information was, where Mace simply describes the technique as being able to identify the weak spots of people and situations.



Would you mind expanding on that? While Mace would almost definitely possess a more intuitive grasp of the technique and greater familiarity with it, Bane on the other hand has displayed a level of Force perception several lightyears beyond what Mace Windu has; he's demonstrated an absolutely unparalleled level of precision with his subatomic alterations, and a level of power completely beyond anything Mace has demonstrated with his planetary scale perceptions. While it's almost definite that the technique would come more quickly and naturally to Mace Windu, if Bane were to actively use the technique with his demonstrated level of control and power over his perceptions - what essentially powers the Shatterpoint technique, it's arguable that he'd be capable of producing greater results with the technique.

bye bye nebaris

Stop reporting me!

Damn, REX is getting uber-quick. What is this? "The Quick and the Banned?"



Immobilize him with telekinesis, perhaps? I'd be willing to entertain evidence that Sion is some prodigious user of the Force in all aspects, but there's nothing that remotely suggests that. There are several individuals who, based on achievement, feat, and narration, are more than capable of manhandling Sion within the context of a duel. He's at best, Hugh Jackman's Wolverine with a glowing stick. The only difference is that Wolverine's healing factor is absolute. You saw the X-Men movies, yes? The fact that Wolverine can take more punishment than most mutants does not, in any way, shape, or form, suggest that he is more powerful or more dangerous; hence why the sixty-something year old zealot that is Magneto is more than capable of kicking his ass up and down whatever continent they happen to be on.

Weird analogy, I know, since mutation =/= the Force, but you get my point.



Wasn't he imprisoned on Onderon or Dxun or some such?



That's not the case at all. Utilizing supernature perceptions is a manipulation of energy, Nebaris; manipulating Force energy to assess the weaknesses of individuals, objects, and circumstances; it's not independent of the Force. The description that you provided doesn't suggest that the technique Bane was using was anything approaching the shatterpoint charism; attempting to use the Force to detect weakness is not necessarily the same technique, anymore than amulet blasts are identical in scope, size, magnitude, and function to your standard Force lightning.



There is no indication that the perceptions you mention in terms of Bane's destructive application of Force power are the same as those used for the shatterpoint charism. Yoda, for example, is regarded by numerous sources as "the most powerful" and "most perceptive", not to mention the most experienced, of the Jedi, yet there's no indication that he has any inkling or understanding of the shatterpoint charism; indeed, it seems to be something that Mace Windu alone demonstrates, discusses, and heavily implies that it is a rarity amongst Jedi, referring to it as "his power."

The fact that Bane is stronger in the Force than Mace or more perceptive does not suggest that he could produce greater results.

Nope. Nadd went to Korriban, and then to Yavin IV. In fact he's the only one other than Palpatine that was free to do whatever as a spirit.

Oh, well there you are.

Originally posted by ESOL.TON.LLIW.I
Stop reporting me!
*reports*

His user comments are getting more hurtful every ban.

Originally posted by Gideon
That's not the case at all. Utilizing supernature perceptions is a manipulation of energy, Nebaris; manipulating Force energy to assess the weaknesses of individuals, objects, and circumstances; it's not independent of the Force.

Actually, the manner in which Jedi "feel" the Force, isn't at all a manipulation of energy but rather simply a method of recognising and understanding it. Not to mention, I was speaking about the end result of the techniques and what they provide the wielder, not the manner in which they are generated. Using the Force to feel for weaknesses, as far as end product goes, can only really take one shape or form, though as it seems Shatterpoint appears to be beyond that based on the passage you presented from the RotS novel.





Those very perceptions are one of the two fundamental ways in which Jedi use the Force for everything. When you break down a Jedi's abilities to their very core, you're left with their ability to "feel" the Force, and their ability to manipulate it. The Shatterpoint technique is no different, Mace needs to be able to perceive the Force to recognise and understand all that Shatterpoint tells him, just like Bane needed to be able to apply his powers on the scales that he did in such a controlled manner. This is beyond differing techniques, this is simply how a Jedi's powers work.



1. The word "perceptive" is more often than not used to describe a person's judge of character and ability to read people's actions. It wouldn't necessarily be a reference to Yoda's Force perceptions.

2. If Yoda really did have no understanding of the technique, than all those qualities you mentioned become meaningless as he wouldn't be in a position to apply them.

3. Let's be real here, Yoda is not Darth Bane; he has not demonstrated such a level of either control or strength over his Force perceptions that would put him at such an advantage over Mace, and as such there wouldn't be any reason in his case to debate whether his ability with the Shatterpoint technique was as great as Mace's despite the latter's vastly superior innate ability and familiarity with the technique.

bye bye nebaris

Stop reporting me!

Why? You've brought it on yourself a thousand times

Whose comments?



But using the Force to detect weaknesses is a manipulation of the Force itself, Nebaris. And the Force is energy so, logically, my analogy still applies. There is no conclusive evidence, once again, that suggests that Bane's rudimentary assessment of his opponent's weaknesses is the same as Mace Windu's impressive command of the shatterpoint charism; and remember: shatterpoints are more than just your average weakness.

And as for Yoda, LoE and RotS make references to his sensitivity to the Force and supernatural perception; it's beyond the assessment of people, lol.

I just realised how that came across, I was referring to Rex's comments, not anything in your post lol.

Okay.

Mind if we take a break? I'm going after someone who is proving to be more stubborn than Janus, Nai, and you combined.

By "using" I was referring to the passive following of what The Force tells/shows you, and I've already accepted that the Shatterpoint ability goes beyond the simple detection of weak spots.

That's fine may I ask who lol?

Originally posted by Gideon
And as for Yoda, LoE and RotS make references to his sensitivity to the Force and supernatural perception; it's beyond the assessment of people, lol.

Thats shown in all he does throughout the saga...his wiseness and force control and mastery are unmatched until he duels the dark lord of the sith.

Even in his last years he trains a jedi in the ways of the force and resists the dark side tempations from the dark side cave on dagobah...

Originally posted by ESOL.TON.LLIW.I
That's fine may I ask who lol?

Nemesis.

Originally posted by Gideon
Nemesis.

Why'd you close the thread then?

For the reasons posted in the thread before it was locked. It devolved into less of a debate and more of a personal disagreement.

What the hell are you guys talking about?

Another set of forums.

Fine then, don't give me a link, I will find it for myself!

When are people gonna understand that Windu....



Hahaha! Just playing. Don't Nerd-rush me anyone, I was joking.

Originally posted by ESOL.TON.LLIW.I
Fine then, don't give me a link, I will find it for myself!


*Stomps out of thread*

Time to put my google talents to the test.

Screw Google, Nemesis will tell me!

Find it for myself I said and found it I did!

I'm a very talented individual.

ESOL.TON.LLIW.I is very annoying, considering he can't shut his big fatass mouth. sry, but still, just let these guys duke it out in the argument on whether or not the duo will clear the forum

Originally posted by ESOL.TON.LLIW.I
I'm a very talented individual.

Quad post. Good job, you are talented. Next time use edit.

TSOL YDAERLA EVAH UOY