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Who wins? Please judge using your brain and not "Elves because they're cool!"

During the third age?

We are discussing total strength rather than a five way battle?

Please specify which High elves and which (as in, chronologically) dwarves we are using. Plz.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
During the third age?

We are discussing total strength rather than a five way battle?

Please specify which High elves and which (as in, chronologically) dwarves we are using. Plz.

Let's see:

During third age
High Elves are Rivendell and Lorien (the latter aren't high elves, right? Oh well, just for balancing sake)
I don't know that much about dwarves...how about the one that Gimli was in...

I'd say either Gondor or the High Elves. The orcs are the weakest.

I'm not sure they are the weakest. They have numbers FAR exceeding those of any other clan (especially if you give them Mordor or Isengard).

Personally, I'd put them all at about equal footing. Gondor has numbers greater than the dwarves and elves, but each of the non-human good races' warriors is more capable than its human counterpart. Dwarves and elves have the added advantage of superior weaponry. Rohan is inferior to the standing army of Gondor (although it fielded a pretty damn big army).

Maybe:
Gondor
Dwarves
Elves
Orcs/Rohan
Rohan/Orcs

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
I'm not sure they are the weakest. They have numbers FAR exceeding those of any other clan (especially if you give them Mordor or Isengard).

Personally, I'd put them all at about equal footing. Gondor has numbers greater than the dwarves and elves, but each of the non-human good races' warriors is more capable than its human counterpart. Dwarves and elves have the added advantage of superior weaponry. Rohan is inferior to the standing army of Gondor (although it fielded a pretty damn big army).

Maybe:
Gondor
Dwarves
Elves
Orcs/Rohan
Rohan/Orcs

Orcs of the MISTY MOUNTAINS not Mordor/Isengard.

Since when are say, Dwarven archers better than Gondor archers??

Rohan is inferior to Gondor in that they lack a professional army, lack the ability to take Gondor castles, have less money and a SMALLER (not bigger) army. Their cavalry kicks ass though: they wtf pwned a bunch of orc PIKEMEN/SPEARMEN!!!!

The Elves probably have the best troops 1 on 1.

Again, Orcs are the weakest w/their crappy troops. It will probably be either Gondor or the High Elves...

Also:

How are dwarves > Elves?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Orcs of the MISTY MOUNTAINS not Mordor/Isengard.
I did say 'if'.

There's no need for excess punctuation marks.

The Hobbit puts Dwarven archers (almost) on par w/Elves.

I didn't disagree with that; I only noted that Rohan's army was big. I didn't make a comparison.


k. Dwarf infantry is good 2



There's a reason why there are more Orcs than other factions !!!!!111!!!?????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????

But srsly. Orcs swarm/mob/horde ppl 2 death.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Also:

How are dwarves > Elves?
Superior numbers, mostly.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
I did say 'if'.

There's no need for excess punctuation marks.

The Hobbit puts Dwarven archers (almost) on par w/Elves.

I didn't disagree with that; I only noted that Rohan's army was big. I didn't make a comparison.


k. Dwarf infantry is good 2



There's a reason why there are more Orcs than other factions !!!!!111!!!?????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????

But srsly. Orcs swarm/mob/horde ppl 2 death.

Really? Because everybody seems to think that Dwarves don't have crap for archers or cavalry (the latter is true). And Dwarven infantry is good, but they lack cavalry, which is a big minus, plus they don't have HUGE numbers.

And the Elves have more combat experience than the other factions: each Elven warrior has probably been alive for quite a while and has quite a bit of experience.

If you want to get into alliances, then they all team up and destroy the orcs, then Gondor and Rohan obviously ally. The elves, not liking the dwarves and having an informal "alliance" with Gondor would ally with Gondor and Rohan, and then they crush the dwarves. Then, Gondor and Rohan crush the Elves, in which Gondor ends up beating Rohan.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Superior numbers, mostly.

Numbers don't win battles.

Is it just me, or is this forum DEAD? There's like, one post every 3 days!!!!

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Is it just me, or is this forum DEAD? There's like, one post every 3 days!!!!

An army of goblins in the third age managed to battle a large army of dwarves, elves and men sure they ended up losing but it was a fairly close battle. However they lack the militarypower of gondor. Gondor wins.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Superior numbers, mostly. ELves would put up a fight and if its both Rivendell and Lorien manage to win. The only large army of dwarves near the end of the third age were the dwarves of the lonely mountain.

Originally posted by ares834
An army of goblins in the third age managed to battle a large army of dwarves, elves and men sure they ended up losing but it was a fairly close battle. However they lack the militarypower of gondor. Gondor wins.

Are you talking about the battle of five armies? Because they had the wargs on their side and Gondor wasn't in it that was Dale.

Gondor wins (like you said).

BTW, there's a poll...

Yeah, techniquely your right. BUt really the wargs are part of the Orcs of the Misty Mountains ust as the Horses are with Rohan. Bye the way, I know it was Dale. Still pretty darn impressive that they even stood a chance against the combined armies of Mirkwood, Dale, and the Dwarves of the Iron Hills.

I already voted bor Gondor.

Depends on the area, and on circumstances. The misty mountain hordes (including Kazad Dum / Moria) can bring almost X20 the number of any other force in the debate, that also brings in Cave Trolls, Wargs, and other nasties... What they lack in tactics and strategy, they make up for in sheer numbers and variety of troops.

Rohan dropps first, they simply dont have the manpower to compete in the open without aid (Hence the use of stategic strongpoints like Helms deep)

Dwarves have the greatest experience in fighting the Goblins & Misty Mountain Orcs, but again are hamstrung by lack of numbers and the lack of suitable cavalry. Perhaps if they got into the caves before the Goblins attack, then they could fight them evenly...

Elves perhaps have the advantage over almost any foe in single combat... Immortality does wonders for ones experience and skill, not to mention quality of equipment, but their numbers are dysmally low... and shrinking evermore... Goblins win via outlasting the Elves numbers.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Depends on the area, and on circumstances. The misty mountain hordes (including Kazad Dum / Moria) can bring almost X20 the number of any other force in the debate, that also brings in Cave Trolls, Wargs, and other nasties... What they lack in tactics and strategy, they make up for in sheer numbers and variety of troops.

Rohan dropps first, they simply dont have the manpower to compete in the open without aid (Hence the use of stategic strongpoints like Helms deep)

Dwarves have the greatest experience in fighting the Goblins & Misty Mountain Orcs, but again are hamstrung by lack of numbers and the lack of suitable cavalry. Perhaps if they got into the caves before the Goblins attack, then they could fight them evenly...

Elves perhaps have the advantage over almost any foe in single combat... Immortality does wonders for ones experience and skill, not to mention quality of equipment, but their numbers are dysmally low... and shrinking evermore... Goblins win via outlasting the Elves numbers.

This is an all out war between them, not a single battle.

But I still think that the Orcs won't win: they may have numbers, but numbers don't win battles considering that they don't have anything in terms of tactics or quality. Plus, Cave trolls are pretty much useless on the offensive and would only be used to guard caves and such thanks to their "allergy" to the sun. In fact, all of the goblins are afraid of sunlight.

Most likely everyone would team up on the orcs (like in The battle of 5 Armies at the lonely mountain ) than kill each other , with the dwarves winning (they have better armor, better basic weapons, and some damn good machinery

I didn't think Dwarves brought machinery to battles.

catapults,battlewagons .demolishers(they do not appear in any movies or the books but in several games, so it just depends if you want to count them or not )

Are the games considered part of Tolkien's world, just as Star Wars games are played to that galaxy? Or are they considered separate entities who simply use Tolkien's work (with permission), but are excluded from canon and Middle-Earth's chronology?

it just depends onhow you look at it you could consider everything about ME as Tolkiens world(or some ) or ,you could consider the original books the ME .
Whatever though just forget it man .

Separate worlds. Unless you want "snow trolls" and poorly executed sorcerers for Angmar's army?

just forget it ,I was just trying to support my point dwarves win

Dwarfs have the least amount of men. They lost huge numbers against the orcs and goblins everywhere. They are a dying race. However, they are master at craftsmanship. They have mithril, and make one of the best weapons ever. What they lack in numbers, they make up for with their weapons.

Same goes with Elves. They are low in numbers(in middle earth) however, it's not easy coming next to one without being shot in the head several times.

Gondor has huge numbers, same goes for Rohan.
I'd say something like this

Elves
Gondor
Rohan
Orcs
Dwarfs