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The Leader decides that Gotham City is where he wants too be and Joker isn't willing to share " his " city. one has to go. who wins?

My guesstimate is Joker ftw cuz he's less predictable and more ruthless. He's also operating on home turf.

yeah but does the leader HAVE a home turf? I would think he'd be used to it.

Originally posted by PRAYERRUN
yeah but does the leader HAVE a home turf? I would think he'd be used to it.

Does Leader have his resources/prep?
Does Joker know he is coming to take over Gotham?
Won't batman just own both of them? lol

Leader easily wins this.

Joker fight Batman
Leader have to deal against a lot more childish but thousands of time more powerful opponent.

I say the Leader win

Considering the Leader is a tactical thinker Joker would have the advantage being extremely unpredictable then again the Leader is insanely smart

Originally posted by iceman24567
Joker would have the advantage being extremely unpredictable

That is blown out of proportion.

leader...

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
That is blown out of proportion. Nah

Originally posted by iceman24567
Nah

Yeah for starters if you question the Jokers sanity it pisses him off. Hes also usally a city wide threat.

So what's your point again?

Originally posted by iceman24567
So what's your point again?

The point is hes not that unpredictable.

Yes he is

Originally posted by iceman24567
Yes he is

Well ok got any examples?

Why would you need examples if you already agreed he is unpredictable? We dissagree on how unpredictable he is which is obviously up to opinion that being said when has he been predictable in anyway? His plans usually are out of the norm compared to other villains. If you really need examples pick up a Batman book.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Why would you need examples if you already agreed he is unpredictable?

You answered you're question below.

Originally posted by iceman24567
We dissagree on how unpredictable he is which is obviously up to opinion that being said when has he been predictable in anyway?



Well using the same sort of plane eg posion gas...again.

Originally posted by iceman24567

His plans usually are out of the norm compared to other villains. If you really need examples pick up a Batman book.

Thats the point they are not that out of the norm. Killing people with poision gas, beating somebody over the head with a crowbar, using traps with spikes at the bottom. Hell also if you look at certain issues its not even that hard to rattle his cage.

Right except Jokers actions lack logic read Batman and you would know that. Bruce even claims he's the only person that understands him. If that is not a huge advantage for him in this scenario then I'm insane.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Right except Jokers actions lack logic read Batman and you would know that. Bruce even claims he's the only person that understands him. If that is not a huge advantage for him in this scenario then I'm insane.

I read Batman and this stuff about his actions lacking logic is blown out of proportion. The logic of his actions are that hes a malicious psycho that wants to destory everything hes just more eccentric than other villains. If Bruce is the only one who understands him why was Jason Todd and Azreal able to rattle his cage? Hell I think Azreal just met him and pissed him off. Azreal isnt thick but hes no super genuis either.

Originally posted by PRAYERRUN
yeah but does the leader HAVE a home turf? I would think he'd be used to it. He might very well be. But that means he'd be in better shape than someone used to having a home turf, not necessarily be better than the Joker on his home turf.

Also the Joker is used to fighting a main opponent who is also smart and proficient with tactics and gadgets. While the Leader's main foe...is good at smashing things.

Originally posted by Mindship
While the Leader's main foe...is good at smashing things.

Yes but his opponent is so powerful you have to be supersmart to find ways to beat him.

So rattle his cage = understanding. I take the Bats word over yours anyday. I doubt the majority of readers agree with you assessment but then again I dont care much

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah for starters if you question the Jokers sanity it pisses him off. Hes also usally a city wide threat. Joker knows that he's insane. Also he's a world threat, it depends on his mood. For example in "last laugh" he escapes outta prison and in just a few hours the whole planet is in panic.

Originally posted by iceman24567
So rattle his cage = understanding. I take the Bats word over yours anyday.

Yeah it does to an extent. If you want to defeat your opponent it helps to know what things push his buttons its a tactic that is often used in comics.


Originally posted by iceman24567
I doubt the majority of readers agree with you assessment but then again I dont care much

Doesnt really matter because you're just talking while im giving evidence which you just keep ignoring. You dont care because you're not debating at all.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yes but his opponent is so powerful you have to be supersmart to find ways to beat him. Batkick > Hulk.

Originally posted by SamZED
Joker knows that he's insane. Also he's a world threat, it depends on his mood. For example in "last laugh" he escapes outta prison and in just a few hours the whole planet is in panic.

He doesnt become a world threat based on one showing. He thought he was going to die anyway so those stipulations dont apply to this thread. I didnt say he wasnt insane, this hes so unpreditably insane thing is blown out of proportion.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He doesnt become a world threat based on one showing. There are other examples. Just saying that if he feels like it he can become a world threat.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah it does to an extent. If you want to defeat your opponent it helps to know what things push his buttons its a tactic that is often used in comics.




Doesnt really matter because you're just talking while im giving evidence which you just keep ignoring. You dont care because you're not debating at all. Your evidence is rattling his chains? That's not any kind of evidence all you have to do to the Joker to rattle his chains his tell him he isn't funny. How hard is that? It doesn't really matter because like i said his level of unpredictability is up to opinion but him being unpredictable is a given. My evidence is the countless acts of crime without any logical reason saying he is more eccentric proves my point

Originally posted by SamZED
There are other examples. Just saying that if he feels like it he can become a world threat.

Then why does he get beaten by street levelers (excluding Batman)?



Originally posted by iceman24567
Your evidence is rattling his chains? That's not any kind of evidence all you have to do to the Joker to rattle his chains his tell him he isn't funny. How hard is that?



*sigh* You're just not listening are you? Try reading what I said again.

Originally posted by iceman24567
It doesn't really matter because like i said his level of unpredictability is up to opinion but him being unpredictable is a given. My evidence is the countless acts of crime without any logical reason saying he is more eccentric proves my point

You havent given one example, you just keep saying hes unpredictable.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Then why does he get beaten by street levelers (excluding Batman)?






*sigh* You're just not listening are you? Try reading what I said again.



You havent given one example, you just keep saying hes unpredictable. facepalm Why would i need examples the proof is in the pudding. Alex Luthor didn't want Joker in his Society for that very reason I'm sue you read Countdown

Always thought it was funny that one of Marvels most intelligent villians always lost to one of its dumbest heros.

All CIS aside, Leader should win.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Then why does he get beaten by street levelers (excluding Batman)?
It has nothing to do with that. If he in less than few hours can cause a worldwide chaos and all the superheros couldn't stop him I believe he should be concidered a world threat.

Originally posted by tkitna
Always thought it was funny that one of Marvels most intelligent villians always lost to one of its dumbest heros.

All CIS aside, Leader should win.

Tahaha never thought about that until now.

Originally posted by iceman24567
facepalm Why would i need examples the proof is in the pudding. Alex Luthor didn't want Joker in his Society for that very reason I'm sue you read Countdown

Well I know the incident you are refering to and have read the issues concerning this. That still doesnt change the fact that alot of his plans are basically not more unpredictable than alot of other villains. That unpredictably was more to do with him being a trouble maker, Lex who was less intelligent didnt have problems with his unpredictability.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well I know the incident you are refering to and have read the issues concerning this. That still doesnt change the fact that alot of his plans are basically not more unpredictable than alot of other villains. That unpredictably was more to do with him being a trouble maker, Lex who was less intelligent didnt have problems with his unpredictability. What do you mean Lex didn't have a problem with him? Although knowing Joker is insane maybe he can change his thought process to take the improbable scenarios into consideration and counter Jokers unpredictability. Yeah the Leader is smarter than lex but not by leaps and bounds.

Originally posted by SamZED
It has nothing to do with that. If he in less than few hours can cause a worldwide chaos and all the superheros couldn't stop him I believe he should be concidered a world threat.

Nah man its got everything to do with that. You're taking his minor showings and treating it like it should be the norm. Why should I give Joker the benefit of the doubt against a supervillain who regulary works at a highier tempo?

If the Joker didn't have some much fun playing with Batman he would be a global threat on a regular thats just my opinion though.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Nah man its got everything to do with that. You're taking his minor showings and treating it like it should be the norm. Why should I give Joker the benefit of the doubt against a supervillain who regulary works at a highier tempo? C'mone man, you can't say that he is not a world thread because he doesn't have the strength to fight trained MAs h2h. That's not important. Its not like Dr. Doom never got his ass kicked by Squirrel girl and Luke Cage. The Joker can pose a threat to the world and he HAS before, that imo makes him a world threat.

Personally, I think the challenge for The Leader would be to try and control the Joker.

ok and it ended with me talkin....interesting.....

Nobody can control the Joker

too true.

Control the Joker? He's guaranteed to lose if he's arrogant enough to try that. Hell, he outright deserves to die if he tries that idea. Even Lex, who knows the Joker very well, knows better than to try and control him.

Everybody laughs at the clown and dismisses him as a threat. And then you realize he's right behind you with a gas bomb full of joker venom. As The Trickster said: "when super-villains want to scare each other, they tell Joker stories."

Yeah but that's the problem with The Leader. He may have all the brains in the world, but unlike Lex, he has no sense.

..........You're right. He WOULD be arrogant/dumb enough to try it. haermm

which is why Joker wins.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah for starters if you question the Jokers sanity it pisses him off. Hes also usally a city wide threat. Joker is a world wide threat.

Joker even became a multiversal threat (Emperor Joker)

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
..........You're right. He WOULD be arrogant/dumb enough to try it. haermm

I mean he's tried for years to control the Hulk, and he ends up getting his butt kicked every time!!

Doesn't Leader boast high tech weaponry?

Yeah which is why I wonder if he might beat The Joker. But if Leader brings it to the fight, then I know that at some point, Joker is gonna start..." experimenting" with the same weapons. I figure he'll somehow get ahold of these weapons, and start pushing buttons. lol