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How the fight will go

IF

IF have shown he might be currently the best fighter in Marvel U

Fist every time, He gives her the old "Now see here little lady..".

H2h only i would give Shiva the nod.

Rand takes this.

Originally posted by iceman24567
H2h only i would give Shiva the nod.

chi-amp isn't restricted here he still fights h2h when amped, even though personally i think he'd take her without it.

And i think anyone who disagrees in on drugs!

Rand

danny wins

Danny wins.

Originally posted by Juk3n
chi-amp isn't restricted here he still fights h2h when amped, even though personally i think he'd take her without it.

And i think anyone who disagrees in on drugs!

I think h2h only means the OP intended no chi amping.
Why else would he say it?



Without amping, I'd give it to Shiva.

Originally posted by iceman24567
H2h only i would give Shiva the nod.

Shiva.

There are better fighters in the Marvel U including Echo, Daredevil, Elektra, Taskmaster, most members of the chaste, and possibly Deadpool, Lady Bullseye. Hell, maybe even Bullseye.

Originally posted by iceman24567
H2h only i would give Shiva the nod.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Shiva.

There are better fighters in the Marvel U including Echo, Daredevil, Elektra, Taskmaster, most members of the chaste, and possibly Deadpool, Lady Bullseye. Hell, maybe even Bullseye.

You think they are all better than Ironfist. You are insane.

No!

You are.

Get Help.

Bullseye better than IF, gtfo, seriously..don't even grab a bagel.

Originally posted by Juk3n
chi-amp isn't restricted here he still fights h2h when amped, even though personally i think he'd take her without it.

And i think anyone who disagrees in on drugs!
I resent that remark. I'm on drugs and I don't think she wins...

Shiva is a good fighter, but Danny proves to be too much for her

Originally posted by Juk3n
Bullseye better than IF, gtfo, seriously..don't even grab a bagel.

In his defense, if you held Bullseye to a standard based on how he performed against DD and Elektra he should be quite a bit above IF, though we know that's not his typical performance level.

Anyways, Iron Fist FTW, the guy is insane.

Originally posted by Konton
I think h2h only means the OP intended no chi amping.
Why else would he say it?



Without amping, I'd give it to Shiva. h2h does not mean no chi.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Shiva.

There are better fighters in the Marvel U including Echo, Daredevil, Elektra, Taskmaster, most members of the chaste, and possibly Deadpool, Lady Bullseye. Hell, maybe even Bullseye. No one you mentioned is a better martial artist than Danny, the only ones I would even put on his level are Matt and Taskmaster.

I could be wrong, but I don't think you actually read IF comics.

Then you clearly aren't well familiar with Elektra and the Chaste.

Toss up.

Originally posted by jinzin
Then you clearly aren't well familiar with Elektra and the Chaste. I didn't see Elektra, but I don't see here as a better fighter than Danny, so it hardly matters.

You can save the face.

Originally posted by Mindset
I didn't see Elektra, but I don't see here as a better fighter than Danny, so it hardly matters.

You can save the face.

Even though her performance levels against DD outstrip his own?


Nah, it's for you

Originally posted by jinzin
Even though her performance levels against DD outstrip his own?


Nah, it's for you Yea, and when has Danny fought DD with his recent upgrade when he wasn't holding back?

That's right, he hasn't.

Originally posted by joesha28
How the fight will go

Iron Fist for the clear majority.

Originally posted by Mindset
Yea, and when has Danny fought DD with his recent upgrade when he wasn't holding back?

That's right, he hasn't. Oh please they both hold back in their fights and you know full well DD gave him all he could handle in their last encounter. To even begin to insinuate that Elektra isn't on the same level as Iron Fist is flat out insane.

Originally posted by jinzin
Oh please they both hold back in their fights and you know full well DD gave him all he could handle in their last encounter. To even begin to insinuate that Elektra isn't on the same level as Iron Fist is flat out insane. By hold back I meant he didn't use any powers...gave him all he could handle?

Actually, I didn't insinuate Danny was better, when I first said that I told you that I didn't see Elektra's name, then I said that she wasn't better than Danny, so...

When Danny fought Matt I don't think his chi was even doubled yet, actually.

Cat could defeat Deadpool... and IF was on par with Cat. Now IF has upgraded.

Shiva would take it

would slimly...but forthe majority it's IF

Originally posted by Mindset
By hold back I meant he didn't use any powers...gave him all he could handle?

Absolutely, DD was putting him into a defensive fight. Rand wasn't exactly looking like it was easy so I'm not sure how you think that it becomes laughable. Especially since he had to resort to beginning to use his Iron Fist, clearly nothing else was working.
Originally posted by Mindset
Actually, I didn't insinuate Danny was better, when I first said that I told you that I didn't see Elektra's name, then I said that she wasn't better than Danny, so... You did so in a way as to completely write Elektra off which is stupid as it can easily be argued she's a better fighter than him... when you consider... yknow their hand to hand fights.

Originally posted by Mindset
When Danny fought Matt I don't think his chi was even doubled yet, actually. I think it was, but I hardly think it matter since the conversation was about better fighters.

Shiva takes it

Originally posted by jinzin
Absolutely, DD was putting him into a defensive fight. Rand wasn't exactly looking like it was easy so I'm not sure how you think that it becomes laughable. Especially since he had to resort to beginning to use his Iron Fist, clearly nothing else was working.
You did so in a way as to completely write Elektra off which is stupid as it can easily be argued she's a better fighter than him... when you consider... yknow their hand to hand fights.

I think it was, but I hardly think it matter since the conversation was about better fighters. Danny was not fighting in his usually style of hth, he even comments on it. It would matter at what point his chi was enhanced, because more chi would mean his physically attributes would also be enhanced. It's laughable because Matt obviously was not giving Danny all he could handle...edit, didn't make sense...

If it can easily be argued that Elektra is better than Danny in hth then do it. As for now, I put her on equal footing with him. What hth fights would those be?

Physical attributes tie directly in to hth fighting, his chi fuels his super human attributes. So yea, it matters.

Originally posted by Mindset
Danny was not fighting in his usually style of hth, he even comments on it. It would matter at what point his chi was enhanced, because more chi would mean his physically attributes would also be enhanced. It's laughable because Matt obviously was not giving Danny all he could handle...edit, didn't make sense... He was forced into exposing his own secret by using his Iron Fist.. you think he did that because he WASN'T backed into a corner? Now THAT'S laughable.

Originally posted by Mindset
If it can easily be argued that Elektra is better than Danny in hth then do it. As for now, I put her on equal footing with him. What hth fights would those be? Look at her speed feats, her fights with any top tiers, you already said you put Taskmaster on possibly the same footing as Iron Fist and Elektra ripped him apart practically one shotting him.

Originally posted by Mindset
Physical attributes tie directly in to hth fighting, his chi fuels his super human attributes. So yea, it matters. It matters in a fight sure, but there's no question that Cap is times the fighter Hulk is superhuman attributes or no.

Once again the discussion was about who was a better fighter not who would win in a fight.

Originally posted by jinzin
Look at her speed feats, her fights with any top tiers, you already said you put Taskmaster on possibly the same footing as Iron Fist and Elektra ripped him apart practically one shotting him.

Tasky's also beaten her, though.

Originally posted by jinzin
He was forced into exposing his own secret by using his Iron Fist.. you think he did that because he WASN'T backed into a corner? Now THAT'S laughable.

Look at her speed feats, her fights with any top tiers, you already said you put Taskmaster on possibly the same footing as Iron Fist and Elektra ripped him apart practically one shotting him.

It matters in a fight sure, but there's no question that Cap is times the fighter Hulk is superhuman attributes or no.

Once again the discussion was about who was a better fighter not who would win in a fight.

Yea, what I said didn't make sense, what I meant was if Matt were truly more than he could handle he'd be using more than just IF. And if you follow his current series, then you know what I'm talking about. Not to mention you are forgetting some important things about the fight, Matt was out to hurt Danny because he thought Danny was behind Foggy's death(which ofc wasn't real), Matt was using his clubs, and Danny was still trying to use Matt's style of fighting as well as his own.

Her speed feats? Apparently, according to you, physically attributes don't matter. It seems you are trying to take this both ways. You mention Elektra's speed feats, and her fight with Taskmaster, but her beating him could be because of her superior physical stats, not her superior hth abilities.

Yea, your Cap and Hulk example is way off base, and you should be able to see why on your own...

Yea, and your physical abilities tie in to fighting ability...

Originally posted by Enyalus
Tasky's also beaten her, though. Using CIS to his advantage. She's still in love with DD. After she got past the drama there went his only chance. She was no selling him before he started using DD moves.

Originally posted by Mindset
Yea, what I said didn't make sense, what I meant was if Matt were truly more than he could handle he'd be using more than just IF. And if you follow his current series, then you know what I'm talking about. Not to mention you are forgetting some important things about the fight, Matt was out to hurt Danny because he thought Danny was behind Foggy's death(which ofc wasn't real), Matt was using his clubs, and Danny was still trying to use Matt's style of fighting as well as his own. It didn't make sense? Sure it makes sense, DD was too much for Iron Fist in a h2h fight alone and Danny had to resort to other means. It's not as if this is outside the norm. DD has treated IF like an kid before, and has stalemated him before. IF is not outside Matt's capability to handle in a h2h fight and he proved it. Even your own credit of Matt compared to IF supports this.


Originally posted by Mindset
Her speed feats? Apparently, according to you, physically attributes don't matter. It seems you are trying to take this both ways. You mention Elektra's speed feats, and her fight with Taskmaster, but her beating him could be because of her superior physical stats, not her superior hth abilities. Sorry you're right I wasn't being clear, I was caught up in the lack of distinction between being better in a fight and being better at strict h2h, so you're right, her speed is inconsequential to her h2h skill level, though she doesn't need to chi amp to be fast.

Originally posted by Mindset
Yea, your Cap and Hulk example is way off base, and you should be able to see why on your own...

Yea, and your physical abilities tie in to fighting ability... yeah? No it's not. You're pretending that Iron Fists chi amping ability is directly related to how skilled he is in h2h.. which is total bullshit because when he's been stripped of those powers he's looked rather poor a good portion of the time.

The kid was talking about who was a better fighter, powers never came into the equation.

Originally posted by jinzin
It didn't make sense? Sure it makes sense, DD was too much for Iron Fist in a h2h fight alone and Danny had to resort to other means. It's not as if this is outside the norm. DD has treated IF like an kid before, and has stalemated him before. IF is not outside Matt's capability to handle in a h2h fight and he proved it. Even your own credit of Matt compared to IF supports this.


Sorry you're right I wasn't being clear, I was caught up in the lack of distinction between being better in a fight and being better at strict h2h, so you're right, her speed is inconsequential to her h2h skill level, though she doesn't need to chi amp to be fast.

yeah? No it's not. You're pretending that Iron Fists chi amping ability is directly related to how skilled he is in h2h.. which is total bullshit because when he's been stripped of those powers he's looked rather poor a good portion of the time.

The kid was talking about who was a better fighter, powers never came into the equation. So you're just going to keep on ignoring the context, gotcha. Fortunately I didn't say Matt couldn't give IF a fight, so I don't know why you bring it up like I did, maybe read what I actually wrote.

His physical abilities due to chi are related to how good of a fighter he is. Your physically attributes are directly related to how good a fighter you are, they, however, are not related to how knowledgeable of a fighter you are. How does your speed, strength, senses, etc. not play a major factor in how good of a fighter you are? That doesn't even make sense.

T'Challa is a better fighter then Danny

Not really.

Originally posted by Mindset
So you're just going to keep on ignoring the context, gotcha. Fortunately I didn't say Matt couldn't give IF a fight, so I don't know why you bring it up like I did, maybe read what I actually wrote.
I'm not ignoring anything. You flat out laughed at the notion that DD gave IF all he could handle in a h2h fight which regardless of any other sensibilities he may have had before the fight, was proven without a shadow of a doubt when he went to the extreme risk of exposing himself by using the Iron Fist, yes an extreme given what he was trying to do at that point in time for DD.. Perhaps you'd like to stop ignoring that?



Originally posted by Mindset
His physical abilities due to chi are related to how good of a fighter he is.
No it isn't...
that's like saying that Elektra's learned telepathy and mind swapping capabilities reflect her fighting ability when it couldn't be any farther from the truth. You've confused overall ability, learned skill, or natural talent for fighting ability which is an entirely seperate distintive category altogether.


Originally posted by Mindset
Your physically attributes are directly related to how good a fighter you are, Yup, that's why Hulk, Quicksilver and Venom are ALL better hand to hand fighters than Captain America...

Originally posted by Mindset
they, however, are not related to how knowledgeable of a fighter you are. They are when you enhanced your own physical attributes direcctly because of LEARNED abilities.

Originally posted by Mindset
How does your speed, strength, senses, etc. not play a major factor in how good of a fighter you are? Because you can be super strong and still fight like shit. Super fast and still fight like shit. They serve to help you in a fight, they don't make you better in skill at fighting.. This should be obvious.

Originally posted by jinzin
I'm not ignoring anything. You flat out laughed at the notion that DD gave IF all he could handle in a h2h fight which regardless of any other sensibilities he may have had before the fight, was proven without a shadow of a doubt when he went to the extreme risk of exposing himself by using the Iron Fist, yes an extreme given what he was trying to do at that point in time for DD.. Perhaps you'd like to stop ignoring that?




No it isn't...
that's like saying that Elektra's learned telepathy and mind swapping capabilities reflect her fighting ability when it couldn't be any farther from the truth. You've confused overall ability, learned skill, or natural talent for fighting ability which is an entirely seperate distintive category altogether.


Yup, that's why Hulk, Quicksilver and Venom are ALL better hand to hand fighters than Captain America...

They are when you enhanced your own physical attributes direcctly because of LEARNED abilities.

Because you can be super strong and still fight like shit. Super fast and still fight like shit. They serve to help you in a fight, they don't make you better in skill at fighting.. This should be obvious. Yea, you are ignoring, you know, by acting like none of that existed so you could say DD was winning on seemingly equal grounds, when that's not the case. Under said context DD was able to momentarily get the better of him, I don't see how that shows Elektra is a better fighter. If you meant that Matt under the conditions of the fight, using weapons, etc. and Danny not using his chi attacks, was pushing Danny to the limit, then ok.

Mind swapping has nothing at all to do with physical abilities, that is completely irrelevant. If Elektra lost all her superhuman physical traits would you still say she was just as good of a fighter? Overall ability IS what determines how good of a fighter you are. Fighting ability is a part of it, but not the whole. You can't determine how good a fighter someone is without factoring in their physical abilities as well, it's not possible.

It hardly matters whether you are physically enhanced through practice or magically enhanced, either one will act to improve the fighter.

Skill is one aspect of being a good fighter, it is not the entirety of it.

You don't seem to be able to understand what I'm saying to you. Being simply strong or fast does not make you a good fighter, but coupling those with martial arts knowledge and skill does.

Good post^, people often confuse MA ability with Fighting ability, they may be close on MA ability, but i personally think IF is a better fighter, his stats help him become a better fighter. Similar to the arguments used in Cap v Bat thread, Cap to me is a better fighter, MA ability maybe not so much. Afterall, Fighting is combination of your knowledge/skill/strength & speed. If you have more, you are better...thats basic maths.

For this fight, can Iron Fist use his chi abilities? Because if thats the case he would probably win

Based on pure skill though, with no powers or weapons
Shiva would take it

Originally posted by Juk3n
Good post^, people often confuse MA ability with Fighting ability, they may be close on MA ability, but i personally think IF is a better fighter, his stats help him become a better fighter. Similar to the arguments used in Cap v Bat thread, Cap to me is a better fighter, MA ability maybe not so much. Afterall, Fighting is combination of your knowledge/skill/strength & speed. If you have more, you are better...thats basic maths. Shiva deals with Batmans strength fine and he's stronger than Danny without amping and her reaction time is pretty good.

Originally posted by Mindset
Yea, you are ignoring, you know, by acting like none of that existed so you could say DD was winning on seemingly equal grounds, when that's not the case. Under said context DD was able to momentarily get the better of him, I don't see how that shows Elektra is a better fighter. If you meant that Matt under the conditions of the fight, using weapons, etc. and Danny not using his chi attacks, was pushing Danny to the limit, then ok.

Mind swapping has nothing at all to do with physical abilities, that is completely irrelevant. If Elektra lost all her superhuman physical traits would you still say she was just as good of a fighter? Overall ability IS what determines how good of a fighter you are. Fighting ability is a part of it, but not the whole. You can't determine how good a fighter someone is without factoring in their physical abilities as well, it's not possible.

It hardly matters whether you are physically enhanced through practice or magically enhanced, either one will act to improve the fighter.

Skill is one aspect of being a good fighter, it is not the entirety of it.

You don't seem to be able to understand what I'm saying to you. Being simply strong or fast does not make you a good fighter, but coupling those with martial arts knowledge and skill does.

Absolutely agreed mate. Good post

Originally posted by Mindset
Yea, you are ignoring, you know, by acting like none of that existed so you could say DD was winning on seemingly equal grounds, when that's not the case. Under said context DD was able to momentarily get the better of him, I don't see how that shows Elektra is a better fighter. If you meant that Matt under the conditions of the fight, using weapons, etc. and Danny not using his chi attacks, was pushing Danny to the limit, then ok. It's not that it didn't exist, it's just that it went flying out the god damned window the moment Rand decided to use his most powerful and devistating attack in a h2h fight. Something that would directly expose him in an instant he was trying NOT to be exposed.

If you can't concede to that, then you're ignoring common sense.
It shows Elektra as a better fighter because she's commonly able to handle DD in h2h with some amount of ease.

Originally posted by Mindset
Mind swapping has nothing at all to do with physical abilities, that is completely irrelevant.. Which just goes to show you that chi related abilities don't reflect how good a fighter one is...
for example.. I can't prove that Elektra's a better h2h fighter than Shang Chi just because she can perform the silent scream easily while her mind is preoccupied while he almost loses his voice in the same process.
But you somehoe came to the conclusion that his ability to chi amp IS a reflection of his h2h skill... it isn't.

Originally posted by Mindset
If Elektra lost all her superhuman physical traits would you still say she was just as good of a fighter? Absolutely.... she wouldn't be able to win as many fights but her skill level doesn't go down.

Originally posted by Mindset
Overall ability IS what determines how good of a fighter you are.
No it determines how well you do in a fight.. There's a major difference there, especially when you're talking about characters who have such a massive range in special abilities.

Originally posted by Mindset
Fighting ability is a part of it, but not the whole.
Exactly...


Originally posted by Mindset
You can't determine how good a fighter someone is without factoring in their physical abilities as well, it's not possible.
Again, Hulk is a better figher than Cap....


Originally posted by Mindset
It hardly matters whether you are physically enhanced through practice or magically enhanced, either one will act to improve the fighter. But NOT how good they are at fighting.


Originally posted by Mindset
Skill is one aspect of being a good fighter, it is not the entirety of it. Anticipation, forethought etc also play into it. When you start talking about enhanced physical stature though, you're referencing something else entirely.

Originally posted by Mindset
You don't seem to be able to understand what I'm saying to you. Being simply strong or fast does not make you a good fighter, but coupling those with martial arts knowledge and skill does. Ah okay then in that case Namor's a better fighter than Cap?

No I get what you're saying. You think chi amping reflects how good a fighter Rand is, yet Cap I would venture to say is his better and it isn't because he can chi amp.

Well first of all Electra has no superhuman physical traits, she is either a high athlete or close to peak human. But she is not superhuman in strength or speed.

Both Cap/Logan are stronger and faster then her.

Originally posted by jinzin


Look at her speed feats, her fights with any top tiers, you already said you put Taskmaster on possibly the same footing as Iron Fist and Elektra ripped him apart practically one shotting him.





Taskmaster has been losing a step lately. Moonknight made him beg for mercy, Daredevil beat him, and even Deadpool who had his hands and feet tied made him look bad. Plus losing to Electra, as well getting owned by Agent X.

Taskmaster only looks good with his Cap record against the streets and Spiderman. Ironfist would also make him look bad unless a good writer takes Task up a notch, right now he's starting to look like a joke. Which I hope a writer really does him better in the future since his power set is bad ass IMO.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Moonknight made him beg for mercy,

To be fair he made a plane land on top of him and the win was really pyschological.

Originally posted by jinzin
Oh please they both hold back in their fights and you know full well DD gave him all he could handle in their last encounter. To even begin to insinuate that Elektra isn't on the same level as Iron Fist is flat out insane.

DD usually holds back on Elektra as well. He does that with all his friends and ppl he loves. Unless out of his mind that is.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Afterall, Fighting is combination of your knowledge/skill/strength & speed. If you have more, you are better...thats basic maths.

I kinda disagree. Its all on how you USE it to be as effective as possible. Hence Taskmaster. He has all those things, but usually against other high end MA's they are able to use their abilities better than they way he uses his. Thats what makes them better fighters.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
To be fair he made a plane land on top of him and the win was really pyschological.


Re-checked It your right he did get hit just substitute the Moonknight one with Mr.X.

Yeah I know Mr.X can read your mind, still Logan beat him and even Shiva has beat a telepathic fighter as well.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I kinda disagree. Its all on how you USE it to be as effective as possible. B]

That comes in the knowledge department, thanks for agreeing with me.

Originally posted by jinzin
It's not that it didn't exist, it's just that it went flying out the god damned window the moment Rand decided to use his most powerful and devistating attack in a h2h fight. Something that would directly expose him in an instant he was trying NOT to be exposed.

If you can't concede to that, then you're ignoring common sense.
It shows Elektra as a better fighter because she's commonly able to handle DD in h2h with some amount of ease.

Which just goes to show you that chi related abilities don't reflect how good a fighter one is...
for example.. I can't prove that Elektra's a better h2h fighter than Shang Chi just because she can perform the silent scream easily while her mind is preoccupied while he almost loses his voice in the same process.
But you somehoe came to the conclusion that his ability to chi amp IS a reflection of his h2h skill... it isn't.

Absolutely.... she wouldn't be able to win as many fights but her skill level doesn't go down.


No it determines how well you do in a fight.. There's a major difference there, especially when you're talking about characters who have such a massive range in special abilities.


Exactly...



Again, Hulk is a better figher than Cap....


But NOT how good they are at fighting.


Anticipation, forethought etc also play into it. When you start talking about enhanced physical stature though, you're referencing something else entirely.

Ah okay then in that case Namor's a better fighter than Cap?

No I get what you're saying. You think chi amping reflects how good a fighter Rand is, yet Cap I would venture to say is his better and it isn't because he can chi amp. I'm not going to address every point, because you wrote too much and there's no point.

You are confusing a good fighter with someone who is a good martial artist. You think Cap is better than Danny, well Danny said Cap's fighting style is basic, which seems to imply Danny is the better martial artist, that, however, does not mean he is the better fighter.

The Namor and Cap comparison you are trying to draw from, is like comparing a heavy weight fighter to a feather weight, it doesn't apply to what I'm saying. But compare people of relative strength, such as Namor and Thing, then seeing who the better fighter is would be apparent.

Your physical attributes play a part in your fighting ability, it doesn't matter how these atributes were strengthened. You keep trying to disregard this for IF because he uses chi, well so what, he has chi, so it doesn't matter.

I like seing Mindset do something else besides troll and massage Kyle Rayner's miniscule penis

Iron fist 5/10

i lost track of the debate, so does he have chi or not?

Omigod Mindest's actually debating!

And I hate every second of it.

Strangely enough I know what you mean. I suspect you might be debating because you like IF.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
i lost track of the debate, so does he have chi or not?

Yet to be answered

Without amping it could go either way personally I think Shiva would have the upperhand.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Strangely enough I know what you mean. I suspect you might be debating because you like IF. Yup.

Debating just becomes tiring after awhile, I'll just stop responding, lol.

Originally posted by Mindset
Yup.

Debating just becomes tiring after awhile, I'll just stop responding, lol. I feel the same way my attention span is shit.

Originally posted by Juk3n
That comes in the knowledge department, thanks for agreeing with me.

Not entirely. One can have knowledge in knowing what form of style to use against an opponent, but knowledge in when to execute is something that comes with being in a wide variety of different fights. Fighters IQ ftw.

Its hard to tell whether Fist or anyone else who knows how to focus/use their chi is actually using it. Just cause Rand may not use the iron fist, it doesnt mean that he doesnt use a degree of chi in certain moves. same with other fighters. Thus, when we say "chi", do we just mean the iron fist?

I'm gonna go ahead and figure that the thread starter meant no weapons and such, when he said H2H, rather than no amping. And since on my assumption IF can amp his chi,

Danny tears her apart 9/10 at least.

Originally posted by Mindset
I'm not going to address every point, because you wrote too much and there's no point.

You are confusing a good fighter with someone who is a good martial artist. You think Cap is better than Danny, well Danny said Cap's fighting style is basic, which seems to imply Danny is the better martial artist, that, however, does not mean he is the better fighter.

The Namor and Cap comparison you are trying to draw from, is like comparing a heavy weight fighter to a feather weight, it doesn't apply to what I'm saying. But compare people of relative strength, such as Namor and Thing, then seeing who the better fighter is would be apparent.

Your physical attributes play a part in your fighting ability, it doesn't matter how these atributes were strengthened. You keep trying to disregard this for IF because he uses chi, well so what, he has chi, so it doesn't matter.

I can see this is just some pointless endeavor to agree on semantics... Funny that. You seem to think physicality mixed with skill/ability make a better fighter. I don't think physicality has anything to do with it.

Look, the bottom line is this, when you bring into question who's a "better fighter" you're bringing into question fighting ability. Fighting ability is a skill not a physical trait and when you throw shear superhuman physical attributes into the mix you're making a disingenuous argument for who's a better fighter because we all know superhumans can beat better fighters strictly based on the fact that they're superhuman... IE Deathstroke. And, at that point you're just talking about who would win in a fight which are two completely separate things...
A better fighter is defined by someone who is better at the art of fighting not who would win in a fight. Most people consider straight martial skill for fighting ability because adding in superhuman attributes begins to make a whole mess of blurred lines. My Hulk example completely validates this, as does the Namor example, If you make a thread asking who is a better fighter Captain America or Hulk/Namor people are going to base it off of skill not powers..... Shit, Iron Fists very existence discredits the argument you're attempting to make as he's consistently touched gloves with heavy weights, middle weights and light weights purely based on the fact that he's a better fighter and it has nothing to do with his physicality.
He said Cap's style is basic, but Cap's so proficient and efficient with what he does use that his fighting ability is off the scale regardless of lack of different disciplines (though he knows more than he regularly uses); And again, it has nothing to do with his physicality.
The thing is even by Marvel standards fighting ability isn't gauged by who wins in a fight, but rather martial skill and every name on that list that the guy gave save like.. two maybe which could be argued for anyways had justification for being up there. There was no reason for you to treat him like you did.

Well, we aren't going to agree, so w/e.

Btw, how did I treat Danny?

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Shiva.

There are better fighters in the Marvel U including Echo, Daredevil, Elektra, Taskmaster, most members of the chaste, and possibly Deadpool, Lady Bullseye. Hell, maybe even Bullseye. Originally posted by Mindset
No one you mentioned is a better martial artist than Danny, the only ones I would even put on his level are Matt and Taskmaster.

I could be wrong, but I don't think you actually read IF comics.

And later I told you that I didn't notice Elektra's name.

So I still don't see the problem.

I'm talking about the fact that you criticized Jello for his list when every name on there can be ligitimately argued for.

Not really.

You seriously think they are all better than Danny?

Well, I guess that's your opinion if you do.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Yet to be answered
Chi only to heal himself...

Originally posted by Mindset
Not really.

You seriously think they are all better than Danny?

Well, I guess that's your opinion if you do.

No, but most/all of them as good? I certainly think it' debateable enough to argue.

Oh, ok, except he said they were all better than him.

Like I said debateable enough to argue. I still think your response was.. well.. I don't agree with it.

Originally posted by jinzin
I don't agree with what anybody says unless they have the same opinion as me

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I will keep altering people quotes even though it has yet to be amusing

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I will back up whatever jinzins says regardless of how stupid its is and I will constantly scan the forums and argue with anything PZ says.

LOL.

me and jinzin dont agree all the time. I have argued with him quite a few times. Especially on omega red vs sabre-tooth.

lol dont flatter your self, I don't look to argue against you I actually find it quite annoying however you constantly attacking jinzin is childish. Get over it, he made you look stupid we all know this, but attacking him at every turn does not help you look better in anyones eyes.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
screwing with others quotes is still not funny I know, but I just can't help my self, I need to get a hobby to repress this anger

PZ i recomand smoking weed.

Originally posted by joesha28
IF have shown he might be currently the best fighter in Marvel U
I strongly disagree with this statement.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
LOL.

me and jinzin dont agree all the time. I have argued with him quite a few times. Especially on omega red vs sabre-tooth.

lol dont flatter your self, I don't look to argue against you I actually find it quite annoying however you constantly attacking jinzin is childish. Get over it, he made you look stupid we all know this, but attacking him at every turn does not help you look better in anyones eyes.

Aww shaddup no doubt if I dont say anything you will suddenly start disagreeing with him on stuff.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Shaddup and leave me alone.
How can I possibly respond in the face of such intellect





your such a baby, you go around attacking another poster and then whine when you get called out on it by another.

That was quick I edited my post.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Aww shaddup no doubt if I dont say anything you will suddenly start disagreeing with him on stuff.

Yes, because the world revolves around you right

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
That was quick I edited my post.

yes and?

Guys, cool it.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Aww shaddup no doubt if I dont say anything you will suddenly start disagreeing with him on stuff. Originally posted by Battlehammer
LOL.

me and jinzin dont agree all the time. I have argued with him quite a few times. Especially on omega red vs sabre-tooth.

lol dont flatter your self, I don't look to argue against you I actually find it quite annoying however you constantly attacking jinzin is childish. Get over it, he made you look stupid we all know this, but attacking him at every turn does not help you look better in anyones eyes. Originally posted by Raoul
Guys, cool it.








.......




























CREED KICKED OMEGA RED'S ASS!

Originally posted by jinzin




.......




























CREED KICKED OMEGA RED'S ASS!

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I strongly disagree with this statement.


hey it's "might be"

Originally posted by joesha28
hey it's "might be"
Using his chi and abilities to their fullest, he's definitely up there.

Gamora still drops him, though. Mantis has a shot, too.