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finland

A multiversal magical talentshow is forthcoming between various magical beings from across fiction. The talentshow is all about who is most talented in the ways of magic (Not necessarily strongest) and is an elimination tournament. From the first round, half are eliminated. From the second, half again. Same from the third, and in the end there's only one winner.

Note: This is all about being most talented. Not having the strongest spell.

Participants:
- Korialstrasz (Warcraft)
- Kain (Legacy of Kain)
- Ganondorf (Zelda)
- Sephiroth (Final Fantasy)
- Kratos (God of War)
- Demetri (DarkStalkers)

In the first round, the three least talented get eliminated.
In the second round, one gets eliminated.
In the third and final round we end up with a winner.

If you want to, you can also rank them 1-6 on who is most and least talented. This is also a show about using the magic in a talented manner. Versatility


If you want, you can bring up unmentioned magical names for a possible second talentshow, or something similar to it I'm unfortunately not too educated in all the videogame characters out there that know magic.

Don't know enough about half of those to give an accurate estimation of how it would go, but here goes:

Round 0:
- Korialstrasz (Warcraft)
- Kain (Legacy of Kain)
- Ganondorf (Zelda)
- Sephiroth (Final Fantasy)
- Kratos (God of War)
- Demetri (DarkStalkers)

Round 1:
- Korialstrasz (Warcraft)
- Ganondorf (Zelda)
- Demetri (DarkStalkers)

Round 2:
- Korialstrasz (Warcraft)
- Demetri (DarkStalkers)

Round 3:
- Korialstrasz (Warcraft)


By ranking:

1. Korialstrasz
2. Demitri
3. Ganondorf
4. Kain
5. Sephiroth
6. Kratos

I know I'm probably not close to being right, so don't shoot me I do think that the judges would find Korialstrasz simply stunning in matter of talent


Edit: For a next thread, I don't think there's any crime in taking several from the same world. There are plenty of magical beings in DarkStalkers, Zelda, LoK and Warcraft

If it turns out people actually post in this thread, a higher quantity of participants could come for the next attempt

I'm afraid forum rules wants at most 6 participants or something like that though, so I guess it can't really get very big anyway.

By rank

1. Korialstrasz
2. Kain

The rest can be ignored

Why ignored?

Well they either have little talent or no where near the first two, I think you should add diffrent characters for magic talent, such as the Fable hero, better FF characters that are more magic inclined like Kefka.

Apart from Ganon who is ok but Kratos, Sephiroth etc are of such low talent they would be far below the others.

I'll take it in consideration for next time, if GK deem this thread not breaking any rules.

Kratos looks like he's gonna lose the contest pretty bad.

Right, so, despite the fact that technically this falls outside of the rules, we're going to allow it.

I'll refrain from creating anything like it in the future then

Imho;
- Korialstrasz (Warcraft)
- Kain (Legacy of Kain)
- Ganondorf (Zelda)
- Sephiroth (Final Fantasy)
- Kratos (God of War)
- Demetri (DarkStalkers)

Then;

-Demitri
-Ganon
-Korialstrasz

Finals;

-Ganon
-Korialstrasz

And I pick Ganon for the win, for the sheer variety, utility, and impressiveness of his magical arsenal. Long before he ever got the triforce Ganondorf was already a very powerful magic user, and throughout the Zelda series he's displayed;
-Summoning on a granda scale
-Omnipresence
-Incredible TK.
-Power over dimensions, and the ability to combine, manipulate, and open and close them.
-Power over souls.
-Teleportation at will.
-Discorporation.
-Possession.
-Creation of life.
-Restoration of life.
-Creating something from nothing.
-Energy manipulation.
-Transformation.
-Energy/magic production/creation/manipulation to a ridiculous degree, creating magical barriers from nothing at will, magical and energy based attacks.
-Weather control.
-Death curses.
-Triforce of power; essentially magnified everything about him.

This is all off the top of my head, I'm sure there's a pile of things I just haven't thought of, cause I'm at skool. HOWEVER; I'm relatively certainas far as sheer talent goes, Ganon has this in the bag.

Kain has most of that and more and can enhance it all up to infnite levels, but were not talking about power, more talent and in that regard i would put Ganon at 3rd since you cannot class all of those powers as magical either.

You left out more and better magicians. It's always the predictable characters.

I'm a little rusty with Korialstrasz (Krasus is what I will call him now) because it's been quite some time since I came across the game and books where Krasus is brought up. Out of the blue, this is what I can think of without thinking:

- Master illusionist
- Master conjurer
- TK
- Power over realms
- Teleportation
- Creation of life
- Magic manipulation
- Shapeshifting


This is just a draft, same as with yours. Although Krasus strength lies more in his Arcane might than in the different types of magic. Unfortunately he's the type of guy who uses pawns rather than get his own hands dirty. So we don't have very much about him. Mostly quotes, except for what I listed above, which are things we know for a fact he can do.

Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
You left out more and better magicians. It's always the predictable characters. Well aware of that. I only know my Warcraft well enough to debate properly. I just sweeped the forum in search for other magical characters and picked those I thought was able to do some decent casting.

Sora would win in style. He actually makes his magic using look cool (read: ghey).

how the hell do you not have the Dark Magician in this?

he can do magical hats! FFS MAGICAL HATS!

Originally posted by Peach
Right, so, despite the fact that technically this falls outside of the rules, we're going to allow it.

way to be selective, BOXXY IS <3

Originally posted by Voyeur
how the hell do you not have the Dark Magician in this?

he can do magical hats! FFS MAGICAL HATS!



way to be selective, BOXXY IS <3

Yu-Gi-Oh?

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Yu-Gi-Oh?
I've been on break but let me re-introduce myself. Im a troll? :/

You're not very good at it.

that's the beauty of it. I troll trolling, and thus fail at it in that sense, but am successful at the art of destroying the art. And you never know, there for, always am. A troll.

oh and just let Kain win. Burning's dick is super hard for that guy.

If you did not see it, Burning Thought admitted Kain as second and not first.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
If you did not see it, Burning Thought admitted Kain as second and not first. I saw it. It's not really what he thinks.
Video game wise, I think the best literal sense of "magic" user, of the given choices, would have to be

what was I talking about? lulz, Im going to go
have fun. This place is deadz

Alright.

I would assume, given that it's a talent show, magical versatility, as well as presentation and style would be a factor. Would I be wrong?

Yes, presentation and style counts

Voy's a troll. Yes he is, wait til he asks how much you weigh. dude's a troll.

Voy, come to Link chat more often, chode.

If style counts Ganon wins hard because looking super evil/angry and summoning power into a balled fist is just badass.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain has most of that and more and can enhance it all up to infnite levels, but were not talking about power, more talent and in that regard i would put Ganon at 3rd since you cannot class all of those powers as magical either. Dude what the fvck. No seriously, I was content to mildly troll you before, but what the fvck are you talking about?

All I listed are powers Kain does NOT have to any degree.

-Summoning on a granda scale
-Omnipresence
-Power over dimensions, and the ability to combine, manipulate, and open and close them.
-Restoration of life.
-Creating something from nothing.
-Death curses.
-Triforce of power; essentially magnified everything about him.

And Kain cannot wield them greater than Ganondorf, the ones he does have.

Kain also lacks the super badass balled-fist pose.

Oh, and you forgot Ganondorf has a form of magical projection or something similar, able to project his voice and stuffz to someone from far away, this is also a sign of remote-vision or possibly even Cosmic Awareness.

And how he can trap beings in various ways, such as when he captured Zelda with a crystal prision.

Omnipresence?

Yeah.

I am actually confused on your logical reasoning for that as well.

Sounds like a stranger power for Ganondorf.

Throughout the games Ganon is aware of things that he isn't anywhere close to, and while off screen can do crazy things, like capturing Zelda in a crystal prison.

It's either omnipresence or some other omni that allows him to be aware of events all over the place at once, I thought omnipresence was the word, because I'm pretty sure actually effecting things while off screen is beyond clairaudience/voyance.

and yes, I left out a lot of Ganon's abilities, I was in a rush.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Throughout the games Ganon is aware of things that he isn't anywhere close to,

It's either omnipresence or some other omni that allows him to be aware of events all over the place at once

To be omnipresent is to have the ability to be everywhere at one time.

That particular thing you brought up is not something Krasus has not done.

Omni awareness then. Wait, maybe it was omnivoyance... I dunno. Point is whatever it is, it's something Kain hasn't done. =P

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Throughout the games Ganon is aware of things that he isn't anywhere close to, and while off screen can do crazy things, like capturing Zelda in a crystal prison.

It's either omnipresence or some other omni that allows him to be aware of events all over the place at once, I thought omnipresence was the word, because I'm pretty sure actually effecting things while off screen is beyond clairaudience/voyance.

and yes, I left out a lot of Ganon's abilities, I was in a rush. Omnipresence is the natural state of being everywhere at all times.

What Ganon showed was more like remote-vision, Cosmic Awareness at best.

As for affecting things from far away, that just shows his powers have range.

To be omnipresent is to be everywhere at one(all?) time.
To be omniscient is to know all things that has been, is, and will come to pass.
To be omnipotent is to be all-powerful.

The three O's I know of.

Know short of nothing about Demitri. Sephiroth's powers always kind of struck me as a result of a sort of bio-terror/viral menace/etc. given Jenova's concept with all the talk of "reunion theory" and whatnot, and with the fact that Sephiroth kind of merged with Jenova and became the dominant essence. Materia's kind of a factor but in the long run, it's kind of low-grade.

Kratos, for what he is, possesses magic that is almost completely offense-based and he often acquires/earns them. So, while it adds versatility to him overall, his magic in and of itself, is based more on single category.

Ganon, at his peak, is essentially the most powerful character in the LoZ series, and even before gaining the Triforce of Power, Ganon's not an exception. Even some of is best feats were without the Triforce of Power or in a less powerful state than normally with it. Even when banished, he's drawn upon certain elements such as the "anguish of the Twili" (a tribe whose powers he also eventually gained use of) to regain physical form or at least return to a powerful enough state. And of course, he's come back from death/banishment regularly through all kinds of different means spanning from manipulation of others to his subordinates performing rituals.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Dude what the fvck. No seriously, I was content to mildly troll you before, but what the fvck are you talking about?

All I listed are powers Kain does NOT have to any degree.

-Summoning on a granda scale
-Omnipresence
-Power over dimensions, and the ability to combine, manipulate, and open and close them.
-Restoration of life.
-Creating something from nothing.
-Death curses.
-Triforce of power; essentially magnified everything about him.

And Kain cannot wield them greater than Ganondorf, the ones he does have.

The only thing there is summoning and perhaps Death curses but neither are important, he has dimension, hes restored the corpses of the sarafan to create his undead sons.

Not to menstion his talent would be far greater, he has lived tens of thousands of years with said powers and since becoming the balance guardian he can regulate it to his leisure so nobody in this match has more power than Kain and he could stop all of them from using powers of magical nature but in the way of talent, Krasus beats them all.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The only thing there is summoning and perhaps Death curses but neither are important, he has dimension, hes restored the corpses of the sarafan to create his undead sons.

Not to menstion his talent would be far greater, he has lived tens of thousands of years with said powers and since becoming the balance guardian he can regulate it to his leisure so nobody in this match has more power than Kain and he could stop all of them from using powers of magical nature but in the way of talent, Krasus beats them all. He cannot manipulate dimensions, he can teleport through them, he has never actually manipulated a dimension. That is not restoring life, that is turning a corpse undead, big difference.

Feats or stfu.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
He cannot manipulate dimensions, he can teleport through them, he has never actually manipulated a dimension. That is not restoring life, that is turning a corpse undead, big difference.

Feats or stfu.

Show me Ganon manipulating a dimension, its likely just a set piece or a scripted event due to specific variables, not something he can do on a whim or without limit, this is bound ot be one of those overexagerations again about LoZ characters.

Not much of a diffrence at all, he gives life to a dead body, the fact its a vampire is neither here nor there.

Then it seems you should stfu, I see no proof of feats for Ganon in this thread....

To restore life is to give life back to another. In Lich King or Kain's case, they aren't restoring life but rather just giving them a second chance.
The reason a vampire or anything of the sort is called undead is because they aren't living and still not quite dead.

Alexstrasza gives life. She can revive someone to their original state. Granting one undeath is a substandard move to actually restoring life. Both moves has the target end up alive (In a way) but only one of the two is considered making it living.

But its still the same thing, just in Kains case, he made the beings he brought back vastly more powerful by adding his soul to the mix, making it a spiritual control/creation feat. In the legacy of Kain universe a being is alive if they have their soul, their dead if they do not, thus why Kain restoring souls to the bodies of the dead may as well be restoring them to life, his way of animating a being is pretty much the same as resurrection. Ofcourse its just given a diffrent name because of the way he has done it. In the end, it depends on what you call "alive", is moving, eating, having a conciousness life? what is life in your opinion?

should the guy who transfixed Kain's soul be here instead?

Life: Flushed, bodywarmth, beating heart, non-cadaverous, pallidness, not having terminated life functions plain and simple.

In the world of fiction, moving, eating and having a concious existance does not necessarily mean you have life. Merely that you're living.

Originally posted by Phanteros
should the guy who transfixed Kain's soul be here instead?

Would he fare better against Krasus?

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Would he fare better against Krasus? krasus feats?

Originally posted by Phanteros
krasus feats?

6 books, 1 game. You'll understand why I don't feel like starting bringing up feats until I know something about "the guy"

thats his only feat

Lezard valeth needs to be added here.
(Valkyrie profile). the guy transfixed a Odin's soul to him, plus destroyed the orginal world tree and made a new one. plus he beaten the goddess of creation and can sommon monsters and homoculus to fight.

Originally posted by Phanteros
thats his only feat

Oh. Then I dare say he's not topping Krasus. As said in the OP, versatility and presentation matters.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Oh. Then I dare say he's not topping Krasus. As said in the OP, versatility and presentation matters. look at my description of Lezard Valeth

I wanted it to be an even show. Otherwise I would have brought Medivh, Malygos or Norgannon from Warcraft Your character seems kinda over the top for this talentshow.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I wanted it to be an even show. Otherwise I would have brought Medivh, Malygos or Norgannon from Warcraft Your character seems kinda over the top for this talentshow. oh

How varied is Krasus? I only make him number 1 when I rated him because I imagined him to be both varied and skilled.

Originally posted by Burning thought
How varied is Krasus? I only make him number 1 when I rated him because I imagined him to be both varied and skilled.

Master of elements, illusions, arcane, shapeshifting, conjuring, enchanting, rituals, energy manipulation and limited druidism would be what I can come to think of just like that.

You realise Sephiroth controls the very essence of magic in his world right? He can essentially do anything with it.

Sephiroth goes into Sepharim Sephiroth, that is uber presentation and style right there.

I may be missing what talented means...?

To have versatility and creativity and the capability to combine the two makes it talent in my eyes.

What exactly does "essentially do anything" mean when talking about Sephiroth? Erase someone from existance? Summon objects by willing it? Teleporting? Shapeshift? Control nature? Create tsunamis? Quake the planet? Is "esseintially anything" virtually anything?

it's over, DMOC wins.
s7VvLubKLDs
he just obliterates all the competition

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Master of elements, illusions, arcane, shapeshifting, conjuring, enchanting, rituals, energy manipulation and limited druidism would be what I can come to think of just like that.

Then kain would likely come joint first with him, Kain being the master of elements, dimentions, energy, state, souls, blood, weather etc as well as being able to empower them to an unlimited scope.

Exactly what does Kain do with the elements? State? Dimensions? Weather?

Unlimited scope is merely a speculation.

Its a direct statement, not a speculation. Speculation would assume guesswork.

State he has done nothing, elements he creates mostly blasts or AOE waves, Dimensions he just ports through and weather he controls lightning.

What has Krasus done to show his mastery of those skills you stated?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Its a direct statement, not a speculation. Speculation would assume guesswork.

State he has done nothing, elements he creates mostly blasts or AOE waves, Dimensions he just ports through and weather he controls lightning.

What has Krasus done to show his mastery of those skills you stated?

He hasn't done it. That makes it speculation.

I don't even know what State is Concerning casting lightning, that can hardly be considered weather manipulation. It's one move. Can he stop/summon rain? Avert thunderstorms? Create/remove tornados? Create a hailstorm?


Summon wind, manipulate water, control fire and alter stone. The four elements. He duplicated himself to eight and has also created a whole family as well as house which was solid. Illusionist. He can take any humanoid form he wants and can turn into a dragon. Shapeshifter. He create furniture, items and food. Conjuring. He injected his power into a necklace. Enchanting. He opens portals and preform long-distance spells. Rituals. He restore lifeforce, mana, stamina, repairs injuries and enhance strength and magic. Energy manipulation. He can restore trees, summon the elements and communicate with beasts. Drudism.

And as I said those paths I listed are just a couple of his ways. He has done loads more. What I listed is also not everything he has done in the assigned paths.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
He hasn't done it. That makes it speculation.

I don't even know what State is Concerning casting lightning, that can hardly be considered weather manipulation. It's one move. Can he stop/summon rain? Avert thunderstorms? Create/remove tornados? Create a hailstorm?


Summon wind, manipulate water, control fire and alter stone. The four elements. He duplicated himself to eight and has also created a whole family as well as house which was solid. Illusionist. He can take any humanoid form he wants and can turn into a dragon. Shapeshifter. He create furniture, items and food. Conjuring. He injected his power into a necklace. Enchanting. He opens portals and preform long-distance spells. Rituals. He restore lifeforce, mana, stamina, repairs injuries and enhance strength and magic. Energy manipulation. He can restore trees, summon the elements and communicate with beasts. Drudism.

And as I said those paths I listed are just a couple of his ways. He has done loads more. What I listed is also not everything he has done in the assigned paths.

Hm no, thats not true by any defintion, having not done something in a fiction is extremely common especially for high level entities, if a direct statement claims he has a power, then he has it regardless of not using it.

State, as in the state of things, their nature, their physical forms etc

But you called him a "master", I imagined something more than summoning food and furniture or summoning wind.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Hm no, thats not true by any defintion, having not done something in a fiction is extremely common especially for high level entities, if a direct statement claims he has a power, then he has it regardless of not using it.

State, as in the state of things, their nature, their physical forms etc

But you called him a "master", I imagined something more than summoning food and furniture or summoning wind.

I don't do 'absence of proof is not proof of absence'. Either he has done it, or it might very well be hyberbolism. I go with seeing is believing. There's a direct statement declaring Lich King omnipotent. That does not make him so. The creators hyped his power. So while a direct statement exist that claim Kain able to empower himself infinitly, does not mean he can. We have not seen it. This would make him a planet destroyer, which nothing he has done implicate.

Still don't get it.

What more can you do with the wind element than summon it? It was easier to say master of elements than master of fire, water and earth and knows some wind. The elements belong to druids though, which he is limited at. He can do more than many other arcanists, and more than Kain as well.
That's what Conjuring is. Summoning inanimate objects and food. He created his own fortress if you rather want to hear that. I did not bring it up, because I have no intention of being right or wrong. I list things he has done to show his talents. I really don't aim for his greatest moves. I aim for his more general ones.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I don't do 'absence of proof is not proof of absence'. Either he has done it, or it might very well be hyberbolism. I go with seeing is believing. There's a direct statement declaring Lich King omnipotent. That does not make him so. The creators hyped his power. So while a direct statement exist that claim Kain able to empower himself infinitly, does not mean he can. We have not seen it. This would make him a planet destroyer, which nothing he has done implicate.

Still don't get it.

What more can you do with the wind element than summon it? It was easier to say master of elements than master of fire, water and earth and knows some wind. The elements belong to druids though, which he is limited at. He can do more than many other arcanists, and more than Kain as well.
That's what Conjuring is. Summoning inanimate objects and food. He created his own fortress if you rather want to hear that. I did not bring it up, because I have no intention of being right or wrong. I list things he has done to show his talents. I really don't aim for his greatest moves. I aim for his more general ones.

Thats wrong as well, hyperbole is exageration, a direct statement cannot be hyperbole. yes you just pointed out actual hyperbole, however the descrption for the entire race of balance magic regulators cannot be. It would make him more than a planet destroyer and you cannot tone him down just because he has not shown it, the statement is unhyperbolic and direct and its a power he gains at the end of his game series. Omniponce as a word alone can be hyperbole, although everything the LK has done goes against the view of omnipotence making it obvious hyperbole.



The statement as shown above cannot be hyperbole, since the very words that convey his power are direct.

How can you not understand the state of things? the state of matter for a block of cheese is solid, if you melt it, its state is liquid etc. Its mostly science.

Depends, what has he done? Kain can create fire, lightning, air blasts from him, cause Earthquakes, summon full lightning storms and whirlwinds.

Surely a greater feat with a power usually means more talent in that area of magic, if one being can summon his entire race into excistence while the other can summon a few grapes to eat, surely the former is more talented a summoner/conjurer.

Kain's never displayed anything close to the raw skill, power, and stylishness of Ganon, and your own quote goes against your claim.

The first quote is wrong because he did not have this power until the very end of the game so you cannot judge him by what he has done, Blizzard were talking about the Lich King how he has been since becoming Fusion.

And you like a lot of people have read my quote wrong

And raw skill and power? show me Ganon doing anything of the sort please, hell even a statement would be nice, ive never even heard of Ganon performing a feat of magic of high level and anything claimed ive not actually seen the source.

Play Ocarina of time for less than ten minutes and without ever having his piece of the triforce he casts a death curse on the Deku tree.

Great.....you pretty much asked me to go and find your proof myself, as if I would do that, you have to provide your proof, as if ime going to go and buy a game I dont have, that is not my taste just to see Ganon do that...

Thats like me telling you to go and play Blood omen until the 14th act to see his cast blood shower.

And how is that even impressive, a death curse on a tree....

Seeing as without Zelda games there'd be no Blood Omen, I find your distaste for a game you've never played to be odd.

Also, it's impressive because the Deku tree is the guardian spirit of the forest, who deters evil and protects the order of the world. Before Ganon ever even ascended to power he was essentially slaying quai-dieties.

The Deku tree > Kain, infact, as he's created his own race and safegaurds the cradle of life in his universe.

What do you base that claim on? just because its a similiar type of control? their a completly diffrent series, diffrent atmosphere, characters etc, its a toon game and I have seen enough of the Legend of Zelda to understand its graphics, characters and entire feel is not in my interest.

Wooo! the Guardian spirit of the forest, and what has this spirit resisted before? what do you gauge the impressiveness by? anything other than titles?

That last statement=madness.

I never wanted to go into an elaborate debate with you, Burning Thought, about Kain and I will not do so now. I won't stir my perspective and neither will you. I will never believe that absence of proof is not proof of absence. I believe what I see. I accept nothing less than concrete facts and feats. Something Kain lack to back you up. No matter how many quotes you make, he will not save you from that.

An example is Anveena. She is supposed to be at least as powerful as a nuclear blast but has shown no such power. So while it is not only very likely but most likely that she hold that power, she has never used it and can not in my eyes be declared to have it. Merely because there is no proof that she has a limit for her supposed powers, does not mean that she does not have one.

Kain may be claimed to be unlimited, even supposed to be, but not until he has shown it to us can it be considered actual proof. Evertil' that point it is nothing more than speculations. Speculations based on a statement that might or might not be hype.

Zelda is not a toon game, it has toon titles, lol. And even in toon titles, mainly WindWaker, the storyline is very serious and well played, better than in Blood Omen games.


Graphics also do not make the game, sure, n64 graphics are bad compared to modern games, but OoT and MM are still incredibly good games.

Know somethign a tree can resist that a vampire can't? Sunlight. :]

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Zelda is not a toon game, it has toon titles, lol. And even in toon titles, mainly WindWaker, the storyline is very serious and well played, better than in Blood Omen games.


Graphics also do not make the game, sure, n64 graphics are bad compared to modern games, but OoT and MM are still incredibly good games.

Know somethign a tree can resist that a vampire can't? Sunlight. :]

Anyone who claims storyline is better in Zelda than in the Legacy of Kain has not played legacy of Kain or are under a certain age.

As I said, its not in my taste, the graphic style itself would put me off, regardless of whether the graphics themselves are of high quality, same with Mario and all of his games, or Sonic, I dont dislike them because of their graphics quality, just their style nad personalities.

That a normal vampire cant, not a Nosgothic vampire of the level of Kain

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I never wanted to go into an elaborate debate with you, Burning Thought, about Kain and I will not do so now. I won't stir my perspective and neither will you. I will never believe that absence of proof is not proof of absence. I believe what I see. I accept nothing less than concrete facts and feats. Something Kain lack to back you up. No matter how many quotes you make, he will not save you from that.

An example is Anveena. She is supposed to be at least as powerful as a nuclear blast but has shown no such power. So while it is not only very likely but most likely that she hold that power, she has never used it and can not in my eyes be declared to have it. Merely because there is no proof that she has a limit for her supposed powers, does not mean that she does not have one.

Kain may be claimed to be unlimited, even supposed to be, but not until he has shown it to us can it be considered actual proof. Evertil' that point it is nothing more than speculations. Speculations based on a statement that might or might not be hype.

Quotes that I make? you mean the developers.....

Although it depends on what states her power as a nuclear blast, why, etc, I am talking about an actual power of a race of an entire line of beings, not a singular entity or a single being. Assuming a being has no limit because there is not a limit shown is a no limits fallacy, but this is not what either of us are talking about at the moment.

No being can show power without limit, direct statements cannot be hyperbole especially when single words convey their power, its like you claiming you dont believe any statements in the Warcraft books by the narator or the characters just because they have no shown the power, its absurd because a lot of things a character would do is not done in a fiction because the develoeprs themselves do not want to destroy their fictional world to show it, so they make statements e.g. the one I showed.

But since this is pointless, as I said, if we take into account this power, kain wins this with ease since the ability to use magic would be unstoppable and his variety is great, if he does not, then he would come second if not joint first with Krasus, as i said he can also create whirewinds, earthquakes, lightning storms, all of which are fairly high elemental powers and in good variety alongside his powers of light and darkness, time which is obviously an incredible high level ability itself, as well as souls.

BT it is hypocritical to b1tch and moan for proof when you have NEVER provided proof of a feat of over half of what you claim Kain can do.

So until you do, he loses this thread.

Stop whining and lieing, I provide proof for everything I claim Kain can do.....

Originally posted by Burning thought
Stop whining and lieing, I provide proof for everything I claim Kain can do..... Prove it.

Dont you get bored of trolling me?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Dont you get bored of trolling me? Who is trolling you?

I am asking you for feats. Bring them.

Your asking me to prove i provide proof which is trolling enough in itself and derailing the thread which is unimportant, especially when I have provided evidence on the page you asked me to provide proof so your being daft as usual.....

not that you have any right to ask anyone for proof nor should I even acknowledge you, no more than I would a maggot at least.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Your asking me to prove i provide proof which is trolling enough in itself and derailing the thread which is unimportant, especially when I have provided evidence on the page you asked me to provide proof so your being daft as usual.....

not that you have any right to ask anyone for proof nor should I even acknowledge you, no more than I would a maggot at least. You provided no proof of a feat.

The rest is just noise. Whining from someone who lacks the intellect to address a serious request from me properly.

Legacy of Kain beats LoZ in every aspect I can think of. Neither of the games are all that great, but still.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Legacy of Kain beats LoZ in every aspect I can think of. Neither of the games are all that great, but still. It's a good thing your opinion is not important.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
It's a good thing your opinion is not important.

It's not, neither is yours. Yet, we're both entitled to it.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
You provided no proof of a feat.

The rest is just noise. Whining from someone who lacks the intellect to address a serious request from me properly.

You said proof, not a feat, feats are 2nd best to an actual developer statement like my evidence.

Thats what I just said to you, just in a diffrent way...how sad...stop sniveling and dribble in the off-topic section where its best placed, this section is for games vs debates since you know nothing of either, off you go.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
It's not, neither is yours. Yet, we're both entitled to it. Nah, mine is t3h most important.

Whats sad is you actually believe that......

Originally posted by Burning thought
You said proof, not a feat, feats are 2nd best to an actual developer statement like my evidence.

Thats what I just said to you, just in a diffrent way...how sad...stop sniveling and dribble in the off-topic section where its best placed, this section is for games vs debates since you know nothing of either, off you go. 1. Feats are the MOST important aspect of a character. And way to go hypocrite, you claim statements>feats, and yet when debating Sephiroth you tried to claim Sephiroth is weaker than Omega despite the statement Sephiroth is the most powerful...

And those are your own misguided interpretations of the statements.

2. Go get yourself a whine-burger and some french cries.

Joe Dirt reference is win.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Whats sad is you actually believe that......

As do you, I and quite certainly the rest of this forum.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. Feats are the MOST important aspect of a character. And way to go hypocrite, you claim statements>feats, and yet when debating Sephiroth you tried to claim Sephiroth is weaker than Omega despite the statement Sephiroth is the most powerful...

And those are your own misguided interpretations of the statements.

2. Go get yourself a whine-burger and some french cries.

Joe Dirt reference is win.

1. Developers state Sephiroth is most powerful, I was claiming Omega can still beat Sephiroth, theres a diffrence. And bullshit, feats can be full of PIS or toonforce and misinterpreted, an actual feat could even be meant to be a joke yet fans will continue to claim it as a realistic event, other feats may be inconsistent to the character....wheras an actual developer statement beats it all, hell any official or canon statement does, because their not so falliable, especially a developer one.


2. Your doing what the grape did when it was squashed, giving out a little whine.......


Originally posted by Q'Anilia
As do you, I and quite certainly the rest of this forum.

What that my opinion is the most important? I dont agree with that, never have....a lot of the time I think my opinion is the most correct perhaps...

Originally posted by Burning thought
What that my opinion is the most important? I dont agree with that, never have....a lot of the time I think my opinion is the most correct perhaps...

I know you don't. Didn't expect you to.

Knock it off, guys.

I'm sorry. Kinda have problems detecting boundaries as to when I should shut up

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I'm sorry. Kinda have problems detecting boundaries as to when I should shut up

I seriously doubt you said anything wrong.

Yeah, Q, she was talking to me and BT.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Yeah, Q, she was talking to me and BT.

But considering what you say is the most important, mainly you


laugh after you see the winking smiley

I'm probably gonna get all kinds of ridicule for this, but I think Sora would really be a decent contestant for this talent show. I'm not entirely sure how to list all his feats, and which are strictly magical or otherwise, but I do know that he can do some fancy moves when casting his spells.

Sorry, doesn't really help the thread at all, but I'm really not sure about the other characters. The sad consequence of lack of playing.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
I'm probably gonna get all kinds of ridicule for this, but I think Sora would really be a decent contestant for this talent show. I'm not entirely sure how to list all his feats, and which are strictly magical or otherwise, but I do know that he can do some fancy moves when casting his spells.

Sorry, doesn't really help the thread at all, but I'm really not sure about the other characters. The sad consequence of lack of playing.

I don't know very much about Kingdom Hearts and many other games. I can't help you there.

Valeth will curbstomp if he was allowed.

Originally posted by Phanteros
Valeth will curbstomp if he was allowed.

And Norgannon would curbstomp Valeth if I had wanted super magicians.

What feats does Norgannon have?

Infused Malygos with a fraction of his power and was based on the aspect that he covers within the Pantheon most likely the creator of the first well of eternity, a pool of unlimited arcane magic.

That is disregarding that he has used basically all his time, since his creation, to catagorise all arcane spells into his index, he knows every arcane spell in existance.

As for the thread Krasus for the win in overall display.

But hes never used a spell? so its speculation that would determine his power....

Is Ganondorf allowed the Triforce in this?

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I don't know very much about Kingdom Hearts and many other games. I can't help you there.

Well, I do know that, as of KH2, he has access to Wisdom Form, which is basically him utilizing all magic. He doesn't run around, he kind mystically skates, and he can combo spells like he can physical attack. He also gets magic missile, for lack of a better description, that home in on targets and can wind every which way. Then there's the Limit functions he can perform, which are inherently magical, since they consume his MP, and those are always flashy as hell, and quite devastating.

Originally posted by Burning thought
But hes never used a spell? so its speculation that would determine his power....

Not from what I have read, but granted I haven't read what have been published recently. I think Q'Anilia would disagree with that point of view.

Originally posted by Burning thought
But hes never used a spell? so its speculation that would determine his power....

A lot about Norgannon is speculation, but only things that doesn't matter in order for him to surpass what's been told about Valeth.

Here are feats:
- Norgannon has skin of magic rather than flesh.
- Norgannon gave Malygos a portion of his own power. So any feats Malygos has, Norgannon has.
- Norgannon is the source of arcane magic which was the initial school on Azeroth. Anything other than Arcane is a school descendant from the Arcane.
- He was the creator of the ley lines on Azeroth.
- Norgannon is cataloging all spells and magic in the universe (Including Twisting Nether)
- Norgannon is able to teleport other Pantheon members left and right as he wants to despite their massive power.
- He also formed the Hidden Arcanum (Although I have no idea what this is)
- He is part of a planet destroying organization.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia

- Norgannon is the source of arcane magic which was the initial school on Azeroth. Anything other than Arcane is a school descendant from the Arcane.


That's only partly true. Nature and Light magic isn't Arcane. Also, Norgannon isn't the source of Arcane magic - The Twisting Nether is.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
That's only partly true. Nature and Light magic isn't Arcane. Also, Norgannon isn't the source of Arcane magic - The Twisting Nether is.

Yes, but before the Pantheon came to Azeroth, there was no Arcane there. While the source of Arcane is Twisting Nether, the source for Arcane on Azeroth is Norgannon.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Yes, but before the Pantheon came to Azeroth, there was no Arcane there. While the source of Arcane is Twisting Nether, the source for Arcane on Azeroth is Norgannon.

I'm not so sure about that. Warlocks, for one, can access the Nether directly to summon demons and whatnot. Also, spellcasters have no trouble with casting spells on Outland.

Of course, the Well of Eternity was obviously the intended source for magic on Azeroth, but it's quite evident that spellcasters do just fine without it.

Also an interesting tidbit is that weapons merely enchanted by Nargannon have the ability to pretty much lay waste to entire planets.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
I'm not so sure about that. Warlocks, for one, can access the Nether directly to summon demons and whatnot. Also, spellcasters have no trouble with casting spells on Outland.

Of course, the Well of Eternity was obviously the intended source for magic on Azeroth, but it's quite evident that spellcasters do just fine without it.

You're misinterpreting my words. He's not the everproviding source of Arcane power to Azeroth. He was the one that made sure Azeroth had it. Any magician draw from the Twisting Nether, but he was the guiding light that asured that it was detectable. He created the path to Azeroth.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
You're misinterpreting my words. He's not the everproviding source of Arcane power to Azeroth. He was the one that made sure Azeroth had it. Any magician draw from the Twisting Nether, but he was the guiding light that asured that it was detectable. He created the path to Azeroth.

Oh.. true that.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Also an interesting tidbit is that weapons merely enchanted by Nargannon have the ability to pretty much lay waste to entire planets.

He is the second most powerful entity in the Pantheon. The Pantheon who just happens to be a planet destroying organization.

Either he or Aman'Thul has the power to kill millions in less time than it takes a human heart to beat once. Merely speculations, but I'm guessing on Norgannon.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
He is the second most powerful entity in the Pantheon. The Pantheon who just happens to be a planet destroying organization.

Either he or Aman'Thul has the power to kill millions in less time than it takes a human heart to beat once.

Well, more like planet building or ordering organization :P

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Well, more like planet building or ordering organization :P

Not anymore (Well, still that but not only). They are as unscrupulous as they are creative. This most recent World of Warcraft patch taught us that. They aren't the tender and caring creators they were first made out to be.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Not anymore (Well, still that but not only). They are as unscrupulous as they are creative. This most recent World of Warcraft patch taught us that. They aren't the tender and caring creators they were first made out to be.

Ah damn. I've noticed that lately almost everyone in Warcraft became:
a) an *******
b) an insane *******

There are three people you can always blame:
Sargeras, Yogg-Saron and Deathwing.

Krasus should take this pretty easily...

Been a while since I've read the Sunwell trilodgy but his feats off hand are:

- Vaporizing hundreds of demons at once with a fire spell
- Turning an orc into stone
- Teleporting halfway across the world
- Fought off Deathwings spells
- Taken out dragons
Plus he's really good with the whole flashy lights stuff, whitch is what's really important in a talentshow

Indeed. I actually think everyone agree that Krasus is the winner. It's 2nd place that it's all fuss about

Ganondorf is in second place.

Demitri though powerful, is not really all that versatile with his magic compared to Ganon.

Yeah, but flashiness isnt really what G-dorf is about, amiright?
Majora's Mask showed more creativity with the Link=Deku thing...

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
To have versatility and creativity and the capability to combine the two makes it talent in my eyes.

What exactly does "essentially do anything" mean when talking about Sephiroth? Erase someone from existance? Summon objects by willing it? Teleporting? Shapeshift? Control nature? Create tsunamis? Quake the planet? Is "esseintially anything" virtually anything?

In his world, yes, he can do most of that:

I wouldn't use the term erase but he could most certainly do something to that effect.
He summoned multiple people by willing it, and they in turn (by his will) summoned many many shadow creepers.
Yes, teleport, even though the way he does it is mostly undefined.
He can shapeshift.
He can move a planet, traverse space with it.
Not to mention utilise every materia created, Quake, Bolt, Bio etc.
Technically we haven't seen him control nature or create tsunamis, however due to the nature of the NL he could create a planet if he wanted. (A small one)

Originally posted by K1ll3r
In his world, yes, he can do most of that:

I wouldn't use the term erase but he could most certainly do something to that effect.
He summoned multiple people by willing it, and they in turn (by his will) summoned many many shadow creepers.
Yes, teleport, even though the way he does it is mostly undefined.
He can shapeshift.
He can move a planet, traverse space with it.
Not to mention utilise every materia created, Quake, Bolt, Bio etc.
Technically we haven't seen him control nature or create tsunamis, however due to the nature of the NL he could create a planet if he wanted. (A small one) most of that is speculation. not going to help the contest unless proven

Originally posted by Phanteros
most of that is speculation. not going to help the contest unless proven

What part is speculation?

Originally posted by K1ll3r
What part is speculation? creating a planet. he said he was going to raid another one with it

Originally posted by Phanteros
creating a planet. he said he was going to raid another one with it

The lifestream(spirit energy) creates everything in the world of FF7, he has enough to create a small planet.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
The lifestream(spirit energy) creates everything in the world of FF7, he has enough to create a small planet. speculating, he needed another planet with that.

give me a hint of suggestion he can do that.

Originally posted by Phanteros
speculating, he needed another planet with that.

He needed another planet to GET the lifestream. Now he HAS it.

Originally posted by Phanteros
give me a hint of suggestion he can do that.

He can create people and monsters out of the lifestream, which is made from exactly the same thing that soil, trees, plants etc are made of, just people are much more complicated.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
He needed another planet to GET the lifestream. Now he HAS it.



He can create people and monsters out of the lifestream, which is made from exactly the same thing that soil, trees, plants etc are made of, just people are much more complicated.
he can create life but not a planet. he needs another planet to place the life stream at(most outside ffvii all have lava).
untill i see it. its just speculation. otherwise he will shown that with cloud

anyway Ganon gets second place. more feats, plus he already has the whole magician look down

Originally posted by Phanteros
he can create life but not a planet. he needs another planet to place the life stream at(most outside ffvii all have lava).
untill i see it. its just speculation. otherwise he will shown that with cloud

What? Everything has life in FF7, even a planet, so where does that leave you?

He doesn't need anything to place the lifestream on, it is the base form of EVERYTHING.

Lava? What?

He could have, but his main goal there was to mess with Cloud not create a planet.

http://images.hugi.is/finalfantasy/119615.jpg

Tell me Sephiroth doesn't look heaps more awesome then Ganon?

Originally posted by K1ll3r
http://images.hugi.is/finalfantasy/119615.jpg

Tell me Sephiroth doesn't look heaps more awesome then Ganon?

Sephiroth doesn't look heaps more awesome than Ganon.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Sephiroth doesn't look heaps more awesome than Ganon.


How so?

Sephiroth has wings and rings plus hair!

He looks like a giant ghey peacock to me.

And giant x peacocks have more flare then Ganon yes?

Flamboyance =/= flair.

There are different types of style. Seph's style...well, let's just say he's better with his clothes on, shall we?

as i said Ganon already has the magician look down

So you are saying, if you were judging a Magic Talentshow and you saw Ganon then you looked at Sephiroth in his Safer form, you would say Ganon looks more magically talented then Sephiroth?

Why?

A Multiple-Winged being with golden rings behind him, floating.

OR

A giant man, wearing a robe levitating onto the stage.
or
A giant man, wearing full heavy armour while riding a horse and wielding a lance.
or
A giant man, wearing full heavy armour with a pitchfork
or
A gaint beast with a red mane

I am so confused =S

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
- He also formed the Hidden Arcanum (Although I have no idea what this is)


Wasn't it a "map" of the ley lines on Azeroth?

sephiroth looks like a gay bird. he might scare the kids away with his feminine-look

Originally posted by Utrigita
Wasn't it a "map" of the ley lines on Azeroth? Very possible that it has to do with the ley lines. It seems propriate.