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The Shiva/IF thread made me think of this.


Standard open grass field arena.

Scenario 1: h2h no chi amping, telepathy, etc.

Scenario 2: Standard equipment for both. Same power rules as scenario one.

Scenario 3: Standard equipment. Anything goes.

Elektra for one and two.

IF for three.

Any reasoning for three?
I'm inclined to say she has a few tricks up her sleeve to keep her on equal ground against the IF. Silent Scream anyone?

Originally posted by Konton
Any reasoning for three?
I'm inclined to say she has a few tricks up her sleeve to keep her on equal ground against the IF. Silent Scream anyone?
Elektra's a better pure H2H fighter IMO. That's why she takes 1. Her standard equipment involves weapons, while Danny's standard equipment does not. That's the reason for her taking 2.

Danny being able to amp himself and heal himself in the third...the fact that he can one-shot a train with his Iron Fist and cut the foot off (I kind of exaggerate) of a giant with his punch, plus being faster than her using his chi is the reason I give him the third scenario solidly.

I'm not sure Elektra is a better H2H fighter then Danny.

Danny 7/10

She also has the telepathy/mind possession/hypnosis over him. Which she's been known to use mid-battle. It's kind of hard to blow the girls brains out with a punch when you are under some sort of horrific illusion.

Originally posted by Konton
She also has the telepathy/mind possession/hypnosis over him. Which she's been known to use mid-battle. It's kind of hard to blow the girls brains out with a punch when you are under some sort of horrific illusion.
She's going to mind control someone who has that level of mental control over himself?

Nah.

Originally posted by Konton
The Shiva/IF thread made me think of this.


Standard open grass field arena.

Scenario 1: h2h no chi amping, telepathy, etc.

Scenario 2: Standard equipment for both. Same power rules as scenario one.

Scenario 3: Standard equipment. Anything goes.

Scenario 1: Danny, 6/10

Scenario 2: Elektra, 8-9/10

Scenario 3: Danny 10/10

Originally posted by Konton
The Shiva/IF thread made me think of this.


Standard open grass field arena.

Scenario 1: h2h no chi amping, telepathy, etc.

Scenario 2: Standard equipment for both. Same power rules as scenario one.

Scenario 3: Standard equipment. Anything goes.

1: Elektra, simple, she goes for killing or disabling strikes with every attack I would think Rand's chivalrly and heroics would play against him quite heavily here, besides, she's good enough in h2h to put DD on the defensive all the time.

2: Elektra, because she has weapons as part of her standard gear.

3: Depends.... People putting WWAAAAAYYYY too much faith into his ability to one shot a train. If Danny can keep it at a distance, he'll win. If not he gets curbed all over again.

As for her telepathic suggestions, they've worked on humans, superhumans and she's been able to infiltrate minds like Wolverine and Fury it's not inconceivable that she might effect him a bit.

As for h2h speed I haven't seen anything from Fist chi amping or not that even puts him remotely near the same level as Elektra.

Originally posted by jinzin
As for h2h speed I haven't seen anything from Fist chi amping or not that even puts him remotely near the same level as Elektra.

Second scan is sort of an unquantifiable, but to me, very impressive H2H speed feat from Danny...he's facing a monster who every time he touches him, blocks included, he grows in size and strength:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_IFspeedpwn1.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_IFspeedpwn2.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_IFspeedpwn3.jpg

Originally posted by Enyalus
She's going to mind control someone who has that level of mental control over himself?

Nah.


Any telepathic resistance feats you'd like to present?

Originally posted by Konton
Any telepathic resistance feats you'd like to present?
He has one earlier in his latest series, where he specifically cites his mental training as the reason why he was able to resist the mental manipulation...but I don't have it.



Hopefully Mindset'll come in and post it lol.

Ah, in the mean time I'll just post this Elektra speed feat.

Moves so fast underwater that she can't be seen by the untrained eye.

http://s662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/?action=view&current=underwater1.jpg
http://s662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/?action=view&current=underwater2.jpg

Other then that, she has a crap ton of "walk into room full of machine gun toting experts and kill them all before a single fire is shot" feats.


Plus, she's batshit insane.

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/Strength/Elektra_Strength_Elektra_v2_12_17.jpg

Danny 7/10

Theres scans of Danny swatting bullets and daggers and crap like that so I dont think theres going to be a speed advantage for either side thats going to amount to anything.

Danny wins.

Originally posted by tkitna
Theres scans of Danny swatting bullets and daggers and crap like that so I dont think theres going to be a speed advantage for either side thats going to amount to anything.

=/

I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

Elektra dodges so much automatic gun fire that the ceiling comes down.
http://s593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/Speed/?action=view&current=Elektra_Speed_v1_01_02.jpg

Using sais to deflect machine gun fire.
http://s593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/Speed/?action=view&current=Elektra_Speed_v2_03_09.jpg

Moves so fast through a mercenary camp that the mercenaries think the wind just blew.

http://s593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/Speed/?action=view&current=Elektra_Speed_v2_30_08.jpg

Grabs a blade.
http://s593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/Strength/?action=view&current=Elektra_Strength_Elektra_v2_06_12.jpg



AAAAND, finally, stops a bullet with her bare hand. Peak human my ass

http://s593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/?action=view&current=bulletblock.jpg

Danny has done all of that.

Without amping?

There's really no way you can tell when he amps and when he isn't, aside from when you see IF.

Originally posted by Konton
=/

I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

Elektra dodges so much automatic gun fire that the ceiling comes down.
http://s593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/Speed/?action=view&current=Elektra_Speed_v1_01_02.jpg

Using sais to deflect machine gun fire.
http://s593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/Speed/?action=view&current=Elektra_Speed_v2_03_09.jpg

Moves so fast through a mercenary camp that the mercenaries think the wind just blew.

http://s593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/Speed/?action=view&current=Elektra_Speed_v2_30_08.jpg

Grabs a blade.
http://s593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/Strength/?action=view&current=Elektra_Strength_Elektra_v2_06_12.jpg



AAAAND, finally, stops a bullet with her bare hand. Peak human my ass

http://s593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/?action=view&current=bulletblock.jpg

Sure. I'm at work so I have nothing better to do than to post some stuff out of his respect page.

http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=liked5mz.jpg
http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bdbdbd3kx.jpg

http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spster13ls.jpg

http://img55.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sbltz2mp.jpg

http://img108.imageshack.us/my.php?image=agilgoons4wq.jpg

http://img105.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bullets11sx.jpg

http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hulkblitz3iy.jpg

http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ironfist0805kq7.jpg

http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=grsp30coyy7.jpg

Seriously, i'm bored already and theres tons more out there if your intertested.

She's not faster than he is.

Still nothing there as impressive as moving faster than the eye can see while being underwater with no foot leverage.

And though he does have the ability to dodge and react to automatic fire, there's still nothing as pinpoint accurate with bullets as deflecting them bullet for bullet.

And while being able to hit a speedster who is running circle's around him is nice, the only person of note that he's blitzed is Hulk, which everyone from Wolverine to DD have done. Has he been able to reproduce a blitz feat on someone of Punisher's calibur?

Originally posted by jinzin
Still nothing there as impressive as moving faster than the eye can see while being underwater with no foot leverage.

Was she running underwater? Ive also seen other skilled humans beat trained Atlanteans underwater and Punsiher has caught a harpoon from a Cape Killer not sure how fast he moved but to move that fast it would be a blur.

EDIT: It also says faster than I can see. Whos "I"?

An old lady with cataracts.

I have no idea about 1 and 2 but I can safely say an amped up, presumably all out,Daniel Rand should soundly beat Elektra.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Was she running underwater? Ive also seen other skilled humans beat trained Atlanteans underwater and Punsiher has caught a harpoon from a Cape Killer not sure how fast he moved but to move that fast it would be a blur.

EDIT: It also says faster than I can see. Whos "I"?

An untrained eye. Who he actually is is doesn't really matter.

1 IF
2 Elektra or stalemate
3 IF in stomp

I really don't see Elektra getting a win in either scenario. IF was already one of marvel best h2h fighters pre upgrade. Now with the extra chi, Book of the Iron Fist and his extra training in kun'Lun, his fighting skills have put him well over anyone else on Marvel earth IMO. It would take nothing less then an Immortal Weapon like Fat Cobra or Prince Of Orphans to beat Danny at this point. Maybe Mantis.

Opps (curses that I can't delete posts.)

Originally posted by dmills
I really don't see Elektra getting a win in either scenario. IF was already one of marvel best h2h fighters pre upgrade. Now with the extra chi, Book of the Iron Fist and his extra training in kun'Lun, his fighting skills have put him well over anyone else on Marvel earth IMO. It would take nothing less then an Immortal Weapon like Fat Cobra or Prince Of Orphans to beat Danny at this point. Maybe Mantis.

I think he threw that fight to cobra

Originally posted by jalek moye
I think he threw that fight to cobra They certainly left it open to interpretation.

Originally posted by dmills
I really don't see Elektra getting a win in either scenario. IF was already one of marvel best h2h fighters pre upgrade. Now with the extra chi, Book of the Iron Fist and his extra training in kun'Lun, his fighting skills have put him well over anyone else on Marvel earth IMO. wut about mandarin & shang shi?

Originally posted by jinzin
Still nothing there as impressive as moving faster than the eye can see while being underwater with no foot leverage.

And though he does have the ability to dodge and react to automatic fire, there's still nothing as pinpoint accurate with bullets as deflecting them bullet for bullet.

And while being able to hit a speedster who is running circle's around him is nice, the only person of note that he's blitzed is Hulk, which everyone from Wolverine to DD have done. Has he been able to reproduce a blitz feat on someone of Punisher's calibur?

I'd say the last scan he posted is just as impressive...

http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=grsp30coyy7.jpg

Elektra for 1 and 2, Danny for 3

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
wut about mandarin & shang shi? He'd beat Shand Chi without question. Mandarin is a tough SOB, but Danny is powered not only by his own chi, but he can access the chi of Shou-Lao the immortal supernatural Dragon as well. As far as I know, as powerful as he is, the Mandarin is only powered by his own Chi. I'm assuming you mean no rings as well?

Originally posted by dmills
He'd beat Shand Chi without question. Mandarin is a tough SOB, but Danny is powered not only by his own chi, but he can access the chi of Shou-Lao the immortal supernatural Dragon as well. As far as I know, as powerful as he is, the Mandarin is only powered by his own Chi. I'm assuming you mean no rings as well? yeah i ment Mandarin w/o any o the rings (iirc he dint have em when he broke Ironmans armor, not sure tho)

Iron Fist easily.

Elektra is also a whore.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Iron Fist easily.

Elektra is also a whore. Tell us how you really feel Blaze LOL!

I think it would be a draw. They both know how to throw chi around and there's a reason why The Hand/Snakeroot referred to Elektra as "Perfect Death"

Necro-bump.

So how does this go now, without an Iron-Fist?

Imo, they seemed dead even, up until the end. Elektra was a little more aggressive and quicker, while Danny had a little more skill (He kept tossing her. That first throw was slick, and he tossed her out the window.)

And while Elektra did break his hand, Danny fought with a broken back. So pretty sure even without the Fist, he wasn't finished.

Plus, Elektra was also going for the kill, while Danny was not.



So how about it?

For the lazy:


Originally posted by cdtm
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PfcYuuXIRwg/WgzX97voeTI/AAAAAAAAGY8/_RL_2A4dhD0fEjo_3gde7JNk5UBomvL8ACHMYCw/s1600/RCO006.jpg




http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-osrio2VZz4U/WgzX-TemABI/AAAAAAAAGZA/2kosKrYx4tIPBBhgcFkWn9tRnhhalYCGwCHMYCw/s1600/RCO007.jpg


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6RqCPxJ6Xx0/WgzX-2RD3VI/AAAAAAAAGZE/Jba8BxLhrcUjkmgYDXBQdkbZ50kgSk6xgCHMYCw/s1600/RCO008.jpg



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5gP06ZhF88g/WgzX_Sm9y6I/AAAAAAAAGZM/iFmxGL54c1wGqp2SKaklyVKVQtVs_nvhACHMYCw/s1600/RCO009.jpg




http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Sg_mKwxNbL8/WgzX_0nFX0I/AAAAAAAAGZU/qJ6Dl6MPjFMGg70YyuQvIxlEClnPUmKUgCHMYCw/s1600/RCO010.jpg




http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-voVnP2esG9g/WgzYBejmuRI/AAAAAAAAGZc/6AnsgOpTH0wHPtkLBAvts1QSW-DAWQQZgCHMYCw/s1600/RCO011.jpg


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BVrC1st-lRA/WgzYB5vDjhI/AAAAAAAAGZg/8veLycJjN8M2D3uKD6Xhu6tzj7Loavu1QCHMYCw/s1600/RCO012.jpg




http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-p-zSlRPlOZQ/WgzYCdoMI9I/AAAAAAAAGZk/OpxV0Ix_hVEhipSg54MNob3G1AhJt2nSwCHMYCw/s1600/RCO013.jpg

And yeah, Danny "cheated" in the end.

But look at this:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6RqCPxJ6Xx0/WgzX-2RD3VI/AAAAAAAAGZE/Jba8BxLhrcUjkmgYDXBQdkbZ50kgSk6xgCHMYCw/s1600/RCO008.jpg

My favorite scene of the whole thing.

He disarms her, and instead of using them, tosses them aside. Rands a master of weapons, he knows how to use Sai.

A beautiful scene that establish's the difference between Elektra and Iron Fist. One is a killer, who does whatever it takes. The other is a warrior, with a code.

Elektra was heavily abusing the environment and going for the kill.

His wrist seemed to be fine after he had KO her.

In open grass field, Iron Fist would win.

you think? i'm not so sure. in a field she would have fought differently. he seemed physically superior, she came across as slightly more skilled to me. negligible differences though and a really well done fight that actually went the way it should have. nice to see.

Originally posted by leonidas
you think? i'm not so sure. in a field she would have fought differently. he seemed physically superior, she came across as slightly more skilled to me. negligible differences though and a really well done fight that actually went the way it should have. nice to see.

More nimble/adept, I'd say. Very resiliant, too.

He did disarm her, and while he she was punching him in the face, he was snap throwing her, which is all technique.

The main thing is, she was just relentless. I kind of think the Iron Fist was less a copout, and more because she simply would not stop, is VERY hard to KO, and without the IF he would be forced to kill her.

Which he had opportunity to do. Could have used those Sai's. Could have snapped her neck during that throw.

oh he needed the IF for sure--def not a cop out. but i'm not at all sure he would have been able to kill her had he not gone for it. looked pretty dead even to me and it could have gone either way imo.

Originally posted by leonidas
oh he needed the IF for sure--def not a cop out. but i'm not at all sure he would have been able to kill her had he not gone for it. looked pretty dead even to me and it could have gone either way imo. except for the fact that if he had used the fist, the first time he punched her would've splattered her everywhere...

or she could have dodged it, (she couldn't dodge an aoe attack) but not sure what your point is. i said WITHOUT it i think it was pretty dead even and that he needed it to ensure his win. least that's the sense i got from the fight.

I get what you're saying.

How does Matt usually fare against her now?

The last time Danny beat "someone elses nemesis" was when he took down The Cat. Which was great, as a fan, but could also make Shang look bad, considering the best he ever got was draws.

Thank goodness nobody took it that way, but they could have.

The other side of that is risking making Danny struggle so much, he looks worse by comparison.. Another reason I credit Bendis, it's a tough balance to strike when characters face off outside their rogues gallery.

Originally posted by cdtm
I get what you're saying.

How does Matt usually fare against her now?

The last time Danny beat "someone elses nemesis" was when he took down The Cat. Which was great, as a fan, but could also make Shang look bad, considering the best he ever got was draws.

Thank goodness nobody took it that way, but they could have.

The other side of that is risking making Danny struggle so much, he looks worse by comparison.. Another reason I credit Bendis, it's a tough balance to strike when characters face off outside their rogues gallery.

i don't even know when the last time they fought was. in the past it's been pretty even though matt typically had the upper-hand from what i can remember. i don't recall a fight between them where he looked as roughed up as danny did, but i could be wrong. been a while since i looked at their fights.

A lot of Elektra/Matt fights have context. Usually him holding back, iirc, or mind/Hand control... I forget if that impacted her overall ability though.

She's looked top notch vs Wolverine on a few occasions though.

she also made castle feel completely inept at one point.

Originally posted by leonidas
you think? i'm not so sure. in a field she would have fought differently. he seemed physically superior, she came across as slightly more skilled to me. negligible differences though and a really well done fight that actually went the way it should have. nice to see. It was a very even fight, for sure, but Elektra did start off with two weapons in her hand , and she was without both of them in moments, and Iron Fist even chose not to use them against her. Would he still do that in a forum fight? I get the no-killing, but not wanting to stab her should or something? I'm not so sure.

It depends on the fight but, generally, it's kind of a trope that when somebody is winning a physical fight, the opponent starts pulling stuff from the environment - which is the same impression I got here. It could have been more blatant if she had hit him with the kitchen sink , but still, she tried to impale him with the sais, slammed him over the head with the TV, tried to stab him with the knife...and at every step he was basically "I need no weapon". At the same time, the fact that he used the Iron Fist at the end maybe implied that he didn't think he'd be able to stop her in the normal way . But in a forum fight? She'd probably get her limbs impaled quite soon.

Originally posted by leonidas
i don't even know when the last time they fought was. in the past it's been pretty even though matt typically had the upper-hand from what i can remember. i don't recall a fight between them where he looked as roughed up as danny did, but i could be wrong. been a while since i looked at their fights.

Hurt wrist against Elektra, broken back from Diamondbacks Batbreaker.

I'm not sure if Bendis is making these scenes to promote the character, or if he just likes beating him up and burying his intentions under flashy kung fu fighting.