Link and The Gaunlet
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SuperLuigi
Link has Midna, 999 rupees, 100 underwater bombs, 100 arrows, hawkeye, magic armor, hero clothes, light sword, hylian shield, claw shot, gale boomerang, all hidden skills, 1 bottle of Great Fairy Tears, 1 bottle of Rare Chu Jelly and 1 bottle of Blue Chu Jelly.
vs
1. Mario and Luigi (fireball)
2. Black Knight
3. Master Chief w/o armor just energy sword
4. Marth and Ike
5. Seigfried and Nightmare
6. Ganondorf
Takes place in Valhalla with the bases destroyed and only the mongoose. Link and Midna get 48 hours to learn the area.
After 12 hours the next fighter(s) appears on the opposite end of the area.
OriginalA
Link fails to complete the gauntlet.
1. Mario can be equipped with the Lazy Shell armor (SMRPG:TLotSS) to reduce all damage to him down to 1 out of 150+ hp. Luigi with the 100 Points Pants (SMBSSS ) for a similar affect. Along with Castle lifting strength they aren't going anywhere.
2. Black Knight is ambiguous. This could be one of many several different characters; at least one of which is immortal and cannot be wounded.
3. I'm not sure about this one, but John does have the advantage of knowing how to use the Mongoose.
4. I'm not sure about this one.
5. I think Link could beat Nightmare or Seigfried, but not both at once.
6. No Light Arrows and no Silver Arrows means no victory against Ganondorf. There has been one single instance of Ganon being defeated without one of the two types of holy arrows being used and that was after a botched resurrection that left him incomplete (linked Oracles game). A fight against Ganondorf is not winnable without those weapons, even with Midna's help.
Q'Anilia
I'm certain he'll have quite the barren endeavor with John, Nightmare and Ganondorf.
LLLLLink
Link fails to complete because of Ganondorf.
He uses Mortal Draw and instant kills everyone until he gets to G-dorf.
He fails to defeat him because he doesnt have the Master Sword.
ScreamPaste
Originally posted by OriginalA
Link fails to complete the gauntlet.
1. Mario can be equipped with the Lazy Shell armor (SMRPG:TLotSS) to reduce all damage to him down to 1 out of 150+ hp. Luigi with the 100 Points Pants (SMBSSS ) for a similar affect. Along with Castle lifting strength they aren't going anywhere.
2. Black Knight is ambiguous. This could be one of many several different characters; at least one of which is immortal and cannot be wounded.
3. I'm not sure about this one, but John does have the advantage of knowing how to use the Mongoose.
4. I'm not sure about this one.
5. I think Link could beat Nightmare or Seigfried, but not both at once.
6. No Light Arrows and no Silver Arrows means no victory against Ganondorf. There has been one single instance of Ganon being defeated without one of the two types of holy arrows being used and that was after a botched resurrection that left him incomplete (linked Oracles game). A fight against Ganondorf is not winnable without those weapons, even with Midna's help.
1. Magic armour + a quick sword to each, he'd lose about 100 rupees.
2. Link straight up tears his arms off.
3. Spite, see 2.
4. Link wins with ease.
5. Magic armour uses up the rest of his rupees.
6. Link does have the mastersword, in the form of the light sword, which is just a glowy mastersword, but meh. Dunno, I say Link gets here and stops.
LLLLLink
Oh, shoot! I didnt see the part about the Lightsword (aka the Master Sword w/ Sol)
Link can take Ganondorf now. I would say that Link would be fatigued by now, but Link never gets tired.
Q'Anilia
I don't think there is any ease with John.
LLLLLink
Link uses noob combo.
ScreamPaste
Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I don't think there is any ease with John. Without his suit? Chief's got nothin'.
Phanteros
put the Divine Crusader(oblivion) in here and you have a fight
XanatosForever
Link fails x5. All five Nintendo characters can, and have gimped his recovery.
Q'Anilia
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Without his suit? Chief's got nothin'.
Oh. Without suit. Not sure then. According to Obsidian Fury a lot of the things he can do he can do thanks to the suit.
OriginalA
The Light Sword doesn't actually do anything outside of the Twilight Realm so it is a useless gesture. Ganondorf has to be weakened by Light or Silver Arrows before he can be taken down. Ganon has been shown to be unkillable with the Master Sword or even the Golden Sword (the most powerful sword in the series) and ONLY Silver or Light Arrows can deal enough damage to either kill or seal him. Without these arrows Link cannot possibly win against Ganondorf.
LLLLLink
True, but I believe the Master Sword is the more important, beneficial, and powerful of the two.
SuperLuigi
the master sword can be used to make the golden sword. and the master sword can harm him
LLLLLink
Actually, I always believed the Master Sword from ALTTP to be one of the weakest versions for the simple fact that it is corruptable. Another reason why I dont believe the timeline theory...
OriginalA
Originally posted by LLLLLink
Actually, I always believed the Master Sword from ALTTP to be one of the weakest versions for the simple fact that it is corruptable. Another reason why I dont believe the timeline theory... Corruptable? It was never corrupted. It was removed from the stone, reforged by the dwarves, and then enchanted by the Fat Fairy. The Four Sword has been corrupted, but that sword is a lesser sword of Evil's Bane.
Statistaclly speaking the Master Sword (WW) is the weakest version prior to being empowered, which then brings it to beyond the Master Sword's power from OoT (since this time it is actually able to kill Ganondorf). In Twilight Princess it is augemented with the power of the Sols to make the Light Sword, which again kills Ganondorf .
In ALttP the Master Sword is on par damage wise when compared to the Master Sword in OoT. Then it is reforged, and enchanted and is then four times more powerful than the Master Sword was in OoT. Still at this time it cannot kill Ganon since Ganon has the complete Tri-Force rather than a single piece. Once weakened by the Master Sword he can be killed by the Silver Arrows though.
Either way the Arrows are still a crucial point in killing Ganon and since Link doesn't have them in this fight then he cannot possibly win against Ganon.
Additionally from a purely statistical stand point both Light Arrows and Silver Arrows do more damage to standard enemies than a single sword slash from any varients of the Master Sword (with the exception of the Light Sword against Twilight Monsters, but since Light Arrows cannot be used as well it is possible that they too would instantly kill them as well since it works on the same princeple ).
SuperLuigi
still the master sword is capable of killing ganondorf without the arrows.
OriginalA
Originally posted by SuperLuigi
still the master sword is capable of killing ganondorf without the arrows. In one isolated instance when Ganon was not whole; yes. If we are talking about Ganondorf at any other time other than recently brought back from the dead, lost his mind, and is incomplete; no.
Light Arrows were needed in every instance before he could be harmed.
In OoT Light Arrows are used to bring down his defenses and magic protection and allow him to be harmed. The final blow is dealt by the Master Sword, yes, but only after several Light Arrows have weakened him.
In WW Light Arrows are absolutely required to even be able to land a blow on Ganondorf. Again the final blow is the Master Sword (killing blow this time) but only after several Light Arrows have weakened him.
In TP Light Arrows are again used to cause severe damage to Ganondorf and cause lasting vulnerability. The Master Sword is used to kill him again, but Light Arrows allowed the for him to be vulnerable again.
In FSA the Evil's Bane empowered Four Sword can only cause so much damage to Ganon. Only after reflecting his own magic back to him and sealing him with a Light Arrow is he defeated.
In ALttP the Golden Sword (an upgraded Master Sword) is only capable of causing Ganon to become vulnerable, then Silver Arrows must be used to cause lasting damage. The killing blow is dealt by a Silver Arrow (the 5th I believe).
In LOZ any sword can be used to weaken Ganon but only the Silver Arrows can kill him.
BS Scared Stone Tablets (possibly a non-canon game) is the same with the Master Sword only able to cause Ganon to become vulnerable while Silver Arrows are used to wound him. Incedently Ganon cannot be killed or sealed in this game; only defeated, but he appears fine and is fightable right after you defeat him.
It is ONLY in the linked Oracle games is Ganon killable without a Silver or Light Arrow. I remind everyone again that this resurection was incomplete and considered a failure; Ganon wasn't whole and he didn't have his normal attributes; it is an anomalous event.
So tell me at which point did I not make it clear that the Arrows are required to kill Ganon while he is at the peak of his power?
SuperLuigi
in twilight princess the sword killed him. ending your argument that he can only be killed by the arrows. if the sword can damage ganondorf then enough damage will kill him.
LLLLLink
Originally posted by OriginalA
Corruptable? It was never corrupted. It was removed from the stone, reforged by the dwarves, and then enchanted by the Fat Fairy. The Four Sword has been corrupted, but that sword is a lesser sword of Evil's Bane.
Statistaclly speaking the Master Sword (WW) is the weakest version prior to being empowered, which then brings it to beyond the Master Sword's power from OoT (since this time it is actually able to kill Ganondorf). In Twilight Princess it is augemented with the power of the Sols to make the Light Sword, which again kills Ganondorf .
In ALttP the Master Sword is on par damage wise when compared to the Master Sword in OoT. Then it is reforged, and enchanted and is then four times more powerful than the Master Sword was in OoT. Still at this time it cannot kill Ganon since Ganon has the complete Tri-Force rather than a single piece. Once weakened by the Master Sword he can be killed by the Silver Arrows though.
Either way the Arrows are still a crucial point in killing Ganon and since Link doesn't have them in this fight then he cannot possibly win against Ganon.
Additionally from a purely statistical stand point both Light Arrows and Silver Arrows do more damage to standard enemies than a single sword slash from any varients of the Master Sword (with the exception of the Light Sword against Twilight Monsters, but since Light Arrows cannot be used as well it is possible that they too would instantly kill them as well since it works on the same princeple ).
I wholly disagree with you. If it can be tempered by earthly means, then someone can argue that it could be destroyed by earthly means. That alone is why I consider it to be inferior. Also, its origin in LTTP is only known to be an "ancient treasure of the Hylians." - A lady in Kakariko
The origin of the MS in OoT is not disclosed. Also, it is never upgraded in any fashion. The MS of TP absorbed the Sol orbs. This means that the Master Sword can be affected by an outside source, definitely good, but it could be argued for a negative effect as well. The leads me to conclude that the Master Sword of OoT is the one of my preference in the series because there is no proof of corruption and because of its control of Time that is exclusive to OoT (another debunk to the timeline theory).
You can shoot G-dorf with Silver or Light arrows all day, but without the Master Sword, he will never be defeated.
OriginalA
"You can shoot G-dorf with Silver or Light arrows all day, but without the Master Sword, he will never be defeated."
Funny since in LoZ and LttP the Silver Arrows are the only thing capable of killing him. In those games you can slash at him all day and still not be able of killing him.
In TP Light Arrows were used extensively prior to the sword fight; making the Master Sword not the only weapon used to kill Ganondorf.
The Master Sword's ability to control time is limited to the Temple of Time and all that is within it. OoT shows that the flow of time is indirect within the Temple and TP shows this again, but each time it is only the temple's occupants that is travelling around time and it is only through the connetion of the Master Sword and the Temple through the Pedestal of Time is this time travel achieved.
In Wind Waker the Master Sword has dulled because Ganondorf weakened it, even though this is the same, "best" Master Sword that was seen in OoT. Then it was tempered with by mere mortals (Sages) to strengthen its Evil's Bane property back to full power.
In LoZ there isn't even a Master Sword to weild against Ganon, but with the Silver Arrows he is killed.
In Oracles (which is an isolated instance) the Master Sword isn't needed to kill him agian; it is only needed to hurt him without using a spin attack. This is the only instance were Ganon is killable without the Master Sword and Silver Arrows.
According to Twilight Princess the Master Sword was forged by the Sages, and OoT and WW both showed that the Sages are only beings from the world. Since the Pedestal of Time and Temple of Time is present in both games that means that the TP Master Sword is the same as the OoT Master Sword.
Even in OoT the Biggoron's sword is more powerful than the Master Sword, but it lacks the Evil's Bane property.
Finally part of the Split Timeline Theory was confirmed by the creaters of TP in an offical statement; making at least the fact that OoT splits into either WW or TP a canon fact for the Zelda Series.
SuperLuigi
nobody claimed the master sword is the strongest sword. but its purpose is to kill ganondorf and guess wat that means? it can kill ganondorf with or without silver arrows.
OriginalA
Actually its purpose is to be a blade of Evil's Bane. Guess what, the Four Sword was also a blade of Evil's Bane, yet that one couldn't kill Ganon.
The Master Sword couldn't have been specifically made to kill Ganon because it was created long before Ganon existed. OoT is the first appearance of Ganondorf and yet the Master Sword is seen to be held within the Temple of Time long since undisturbed behind the Door of Time. It is impossible for the Master Sword to be made solely for the purpose of killing one specific individual when said individual did not currently exist.
SuperLuigi
the master sword can kill ganondorf. once you agree to that then there is no point in arguing that anymore.
OriginalA
Sure the Master Sword can kill Ganondorf.... after a large number of Light Arrows have weakened him.
SuperLuigi
a kill is a kill.
OriginalA
But it won't kill him unless his invulnerablity to it is removed via Light Arrows.
LLLLLink
This is exactly WHY the timeline thoery is BS...
OriginalA
This has nothing to do with timeline theory. In every game with Light Arrows and the Master Sword; Light Arrows were needed to remove Ganondorf's invulnerability to the blade in order for the Master Sword to be able to kill him.
LLLLLink
It has EVERYTHING to do with the timeline theory. If the timeline theory is wrong, then that means the canon abilities of the Master Sword change from game to game instead of retaining those abilities throughout the "timeline".
OriginalA
Yet still in EVERY GAME on a GAME BY GAME basis the Master Sword ALONE canNOT kill Ganondorf.
EDIT: Except the Oracles event, in which case Ganon was severly outside of his normal attributes anyways.
EDIT 2: Timeline theory is based on some facts. Of those facts that have been directly stated is the fact that OoT split the timeline, and that WW and TP are generational sequals to the events in OoT and have direct referances to the OoT events. By extention the Master Sword seen in those three games is the same sword with the same abilities.
SuperLuigi
explain this invulnerability. because the master sword was working against the dark beast ganon before the light arrows were introduced in TP.
OriginalA
The Master Sword didn't kill the Dark Beast Ganon now did it. Ganon lived on as a manifestation that Midna tried to kill; she then failed.
After Zelda pumps Ganondorf full of Light Arrows the Master Sword then kills Ganondorf and he doesn't come back.
SuperLuigi
first off if midna didnt act all high and mighty, link would have finished ganondorf. i think that adding the arrows was overkill. plus they wanted the wii to have a sword fight ending.
OriginalA
Finish him off? Watch it again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ex-Cpsnkyo&feature=related
Link thought he had destoryed Ganon already. Link made no move to attack Ganon. In fact he moved to stop Midna from attacking Ganon ;probably because he was either afraid that she would cause devistation on a large scale, or because he knew that not even her attacks would be effective against Ganon.
Considering that thus far in the game Midna had shown the ability to totally obliterate her enemies (Zant) while Link could only kill them; claiming that Link would have finished Ganondorf off without any help from anyone else is a total supposition on your part and you have no real proof that Link would have been able to win.
The very fact that her attack had enough power behind it to destroy the entire Hyrule Castle and yet Ganondorf still lived through it (her actually regained his human form so he actually regenerated considerably during that attack) proves that Ganondorf would not be brought down without another element being added to the mix.
Link destroyed Ganon's body in that scene; I'm not denying that, but Ganondorf lived through that and recouperated with no sign of slowing down.
Why do you think that by adding more of something that isn't working would provide a differante result? That is one of the definitions of insanity, so I don't see why it would work when logic dictates that it wouldn't and there is no proof to the contrary other than you not wanting it to be.
By the way, if the Light Arrows were overkill then why didn't they kill him? Hmm? Maybe because they removed his invulnerablity are were a needed part of the battle in order for Link to be able to kill Ganondorf perhaps.
SuperLuigi
obliterate her enemies vs just killing them.... shut up link got the job done. link tried to keep midna back because he knew the only way to beat him was the master sword. if all it took were the arrows then zelda should have blasted ganondorf from the get go.
the definition of insanity is repeating the same process expecting different results.
you never proved ganon's invulnerability which you keep bringing up.
Burning thought
Originally posted by SuperLuigi
the definition of insanity is repeating the same process expecting different results.
you never proved ganon's invulnerability which you keep bringing up.
Kinda like someone else on this forum
Whats with the horde of Zelda fanboyism lately? Sephiroth fanboyism has always been around but the Zelda variety is quite recent, unless its just screampaste and a few other accounts hes somehow hooked up.
ScreamPaste
Originally posted by Burning thought
Kinda like someone else on this forum
Whats with the horde of Zelda fanboyism lately? Sephiroth fanboyism has always been around but the Zelda variety is quite recent, unless its just screampaste and a few other accounts hes somehow hooked up.
Bitter you lost the Ganon thread? Sock accusations have been done, old hat.
P.S. You're the one repeating yourself about Kain so much :] Atleast I bring facts to the table, sir.
Thanks for coming to a seperate thread I barely participate in to mention me though, your worship is noted, but name dropping is in bad taste.
Worship noted. </3
Burning thought
haha, so predictable, you could not help but hop in here and toss around some baseless self pride and arrogance, ah good fun.
ScreamPaste
My self praise is not baseless
Burning thought
Yeh anyway, I did not post in here to derail the thread so ill leave these ladies and girlies too its.
MooCowofJustice
Don't hate me because I'm beautiful!
Phanteros
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Don't hate me because I'm beautiful! Wha...?
OriginalA
Originally posted by SuperLuigi
obliterate her enemies vs just killing them.... shut up link got the job done. link tried to keep midna back because he knew the only way to beat him was the master sword. if all it took were the arrows then zelda should have blasted ganondorf from the get go.
the definition of insanity is repeating the same process expecting different results.
you never proved ganon's invulnerability which you keep bringing up.
The proof of Ganondorf's invulnerability is the very fact that in every single case, with one single exception, any sword alone is not enough to kill or even seal him.
I have mentioned this a number of times now. The fact that you do not or cannot accept this is unfortunate.
You seem to think that even though Link destroyed Ganon's body in TP prior to Light Arrows being used on him somehow equats to being able to kill him. You also seem to think that application of more Master Sword against Ganon would have killed him without needing the Light Arrows; that is insane. It didn't work the first time so why would it work the second time... actually by this time in the Zelda timeline it would be the fourth time (the two fights with Ganon in OoT being the other two times).
The only reason why it killed him this time in this form is because of the Light Arrows and that giant scar on his chest. The reason it worked in WW is because of the Light Arrows and the fact that he didn't actually have the Tri-Force of Power with him at that time. The only reason why it works in Oracles is because the ritual was messed up and incomplete. In all other cases Silver Arrows were NEEDED, flat out stated to be required, to kill Ganon.
You say I have no proof. I have repeatedly given proof to back up my claim citing each and every game that Ganon has been defeated or killed in. I say you have no proof to backup your claim that the Master Sword alone is capable of killing Ganon.
I await your proof of that claim, but my expectations of you, your opinions, and your so called "proof" are so low I truly don't expect anything at all.
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