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This is Death Star Marek against ROTS Yoda. The standard 3 fights and these two titans duke it out in the Star Forge.

Lightsaber- Yoda would eat his ass up.

Force- Close

All out- I'd say Yoda.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Lightsaber- Yoda would eat his ass up.

Force- Close

All out- I'd say Yoda.

Yoda lost to sidious kind of
Marek was going to beat sidious
Yoda wouldn't eat his ass up
It would be close it could go either way.

Originally posted by Darth Rex
Yoda lost to sidious kind of Marek would have too if Sidious actually went all out on him. In fact he did lose. He released everything he had in him and it wasn't enough.


No he wasn't. When did you see Sidious actually fighting Marek back?



If it was just a lightsaber duel, he would.

Actually i would give it to Yoda. Yoda and Marek are pretty close in the force, but Yoda is far greater in sabers.

Yoda smokes "Starkiller" while chewing on his gimmer stick.

Nah, I'd say they're dead equal.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah, I'd say they're dead equal.

It's your thread do what you want...

lol

Then I change the purpose of this thread to be about how fantastically awesome I am. Anyone not agreeing with that principle will be perma-banned from the thread and have rabid field mice/fanboys very slowly castrate him/her.

You may begin.

PS- Your sig is very cool.

lol thanks. The way you tossed fanboys and field mice into the same lot was hilarious.

Horrifically true but funny....

Yoda while drinking Vodka

Yoda

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Lightsaber- Yoda would eat his ass up.


I like Yoda, but he's never actually 'won' a single duel that we've seen.

Dooku- escaped both times.

Sidious- draw.

Galen has won at least 7 duels-

Rahm Kota.
Kazdan Paratus
Shaak Ti
Maris Brood
Darth Vader
2 Shadow Guards (maybe more)

To say nothing of his numerous training sessions with PROXY.

Even Yoda isn't beating him effortlessly.

Terrible logic. Terrible.

Yeah, that--that was pretty bad.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yeah, that--that was pretty bad.

It gets worse, my child.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
I like Yoda, but he's never actually 'won' a single duel that we've seen.


Meaning? You have to win a lot of duels to prove you're good? Yoda has quotes backing up his greatness.

How many duels did Revan win? How many people would put him in the top 5 of Sith Lords ...



Yup, Dooku had to run twice because Yoda was better. Yoda stalemated the most powerful Sith Lord ever.



Yoda is a pacifist (most of the time). Galen HAD to fight these guys, who Yoda would have no problem with.



Numerous training sessions with proxy? There's like 800 years of Yoda that we haven't seen yet, I'm betting he had at least a few training sessions with other powerful Jedi. Plus, we know practically everything about Marek.



Maybe not, but you're not helping him.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Meaning? You have to win a lot of duels to prove you're good? Yoda has quotes backing up his greatness.

Meaning, actual facts are worth more than hyperbole. For example, the 10-Eyed Man has quotes backing up his greatness (Batman said he was the most dangerous man alive), but his actual prowess in the comics indicates otherwise.

You want to prove he'd win a fight, you need something more real than "Batman said he was the most dangerous man alive." Actions speak louder than words.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
How many duels did Revan win?

At least six.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
How many people would put him in the top 5 of Sith Lords ...

A lot.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Yup, Dooku had to run twice because Yoda was better. Yoda stalemated the most powerful Sith Lord ever.

Hey, not denying Yoda's great. Just saying he hasn't actually 'won' a duel.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Numerous training sessions with proxy? There's like 800 years of Yoda that we haven't seen yet, I'm betting he had at least a few training sessions with other powerful Jedi. Plus, we know practically everything about Marek.

Exactly. We KNOW Marek is good. Again, facts over hyperbole.

Don't forget, even a training match with PROXY was a 'real' fight since PROXY tried to kill him in each one.

Oh, shit! I guess Ventress beats them all. I guess that would also put Grievous above just about every sith lord, since he killed more jedi than any we know of.

Could chilled monkey be one of Nebaris's accounts? I shall command REX to go on the hunt.

What is it with people throwing out hyperbole to statements they don't like? Interpretation of canon statements isn't up to us; we are not supreme authorities when it comes to... er... "canon law" (I apologize for infringing on Catholicism).

Even if we were to do that, Yoda drove Count Dooku to retreat on Vjun and stalemated Palpatine in actual combat.

To put that into perspective...

Vjun was both a Confederacy stronghold -- Count Dooku mentioned that he commanded military forces that could "even overwhelm " -- as well as an enormously powerful focus point of dark side energies. The book made constant mentions how the Count's power increased under such an environment; Yoda, who is a Jedi, does not enjoy such an extreme power boost.

Despite the fact that Dooku attacked Yoda when Yoda was distracted (Dooku had attempted to hurl a pedestrian to her death; Yoda used the Force to save her), despite the fact that Dooku made a vow or two that he would "enjoy" killing Yoda, despite the fact that Yoda told Dooku that he didn't want to hurt him, despite the fact that on that planet he had the power to drop Ventress by lifting one finger...

Dooku ran.

The narration mentions that he was pouring with sweat and had to put a missile in high orbit in order to haul ass off the planet.

So, basically, Yoda > Dooku (by a lot...).

And who is Dooku? "One of the most respected and powerful Jedi Masters in the Order's twenty five thousand year history" and "an even greater Lord of the Sith" with numerous feats to his name.

Yoda is top tier.

So how do you think would win Gideon? Becuase I'm of the opinion that Vader roughly = ROTS Sids because of his 80% of the improved OT Sids accolade, and Marek beat him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
So how do you think would win Gideon?

Yoda.



Well, that's difficult to say with any great accuracy. The Revenge of the Sith novelization says, in the final chapter concerning Anakin, that when Vader was told that Padme was dead, all of the rage and anger and destruction that ensued in the laboratory was actually directed at Sidious himself. But "in the end could not touch the shadow ."

Certainly there is never an indication to my knowledge that suggests that Darth Vader was ever during the course of his existence on par with Yoda.

In raw strength, perhaps, he could put up something of a fight. A noticeable struggle, certainly. And I would be willing to entertain the idea that he could have been on par with Yoda or Sidious, but it just doesn't seem right or likely.

So I guess you could say I could be swayed either way.

Of course, what does power mean? Obviously Force abilities skill?

There is a profound difference.

I think Neph means OT Vader. The man in the lab was a newly broken Anakin, who even on his best day wasn't an upper tier Force user.

Personally I think they're close, but Palpatine still has the edge. I don't know that he increased in power by a full quarter between the end of the PT and the OT.

Touche.

Like I said, there's a great difference between power and skill; I could conceive Vader having 80% of Palpatine's raw power, but not in skill or knowledge.

Originally posted by Gideon
Could chilled monkey be one of Nebaris's accounts? I shall command REX to go on the hunt.

Sure, go ahead.

Originally posted by Gideon
What is it with people throwing out hyperbole to statements they don't like? Interpretation of canon statements isn't up to us; we are not supreme authorities when it comes to... er... "canon law" (I apologize for infringing on Catholicism).

I just think that in a debate, using facts and looking at what the characters in question have actually achieved means more than saying stuff like "the handbook says Batman is the best martial artist in the world so he wins" (even though the comics suggest otherwise). Again, actions speak louder than words.

Originally posted by Gideon
Yoda is top tier.

Did I say otherwise?

All I said was Yoda has never won a duel (in the sense of 'total victory'- do you claim otherwise?) and that he isn't beating Galen effortlessly.

Sorry If I've offended anyone. I really don't want thi to get ugly.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Juhani, Yuthura Ban and Uthar Wynn, Darth Bandon and a pair of Dark Jedi, Bastila Shan twice, Darth Malak.

Okay, nothing personal, but I strongly dislike the fact that many people think he actually (canon) defeated all these people. Is it stated in any novel or just anywhere else outside the game that he defeated these people?

Juhani, Malak, Bastila (only once), yes, you actually 'had' to beat them alone to continue the game (maybe with the help of grenades or mines). But Revan could've easily just stood on the side lines when someone else won the duel for him.

Uthar, may have had help from Yuthura plus he poisoned the guy. Darth Bandon, Dark Jedi and the first time you beat Bastila, all with help from his dear companions.

Yeah there is no definitive source detailing Revan's accomplishments.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yeah there is no definitive source detailing Revan's accomplishments.

He beat Malak and was stated by Bane to be one of the greatest sith lords ever.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
He beat Malak and was stated by Bane to be one of the greatest sith lords ever.

Oh, because both of those mean a lot.

Just as a side note, the Old Republic Campaign guide does specify that it was Revan who dueled and defeated all these people.



Same as above, the guide claims Revan was too much for Bandon to handle. It also makes mention of Bandon's allies and directly says that it was Revan who killed Bandon. Strictly said it seems like a 3v3 match.


EDIT - Although what any of this has to do with Galen Marek vs Yoda, I have no idea.

What the hell does Revan have to do with this fight? Is he a spectator or something?

Originally posted by Autokrat
Just as a side note, the Old Republic Campaign guide does specify that it was Revan who dueled and defeated all these people.



Same as above, the guide claims Revan was too much for Bandon to handle. It also makes mention of Bandon's allies and directly says that it was Revan who killed Bandon. Strictly said it seems like a 3v3 match.

Thanks.


Originally posted by Autokrat
EDIT - Although what any of this has to do with Galen Marek vs Yoda, I have no idea.

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
What the hell does Revan have to do with this fight? Is he a spectator or something?

Basically some posters were claiming that Yoda would easily beat Galen in a lightsabre fight. I pointed out that Yoda has never actually won a duel, while Galen has won plenty.

I was then asked how many duels Revan had won, so I obliged by providing an answer.

Threads sometimes go off on tangents like that.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Basically some posters were claiming that Yoda would easily beat Galen in a lightsabre fight. I pointed out that Yoda has never actually won a duel, while Galen has won plenty.

I was then asked how many duels Revan had won, so I obliged by providing an answer.

Threads sometimes go off on tangents like that.

That's not even remotely a valid argument. Saying that Yoda could not take Galen because we have never seen him "win" a lightsaber duel on screen is a logical fallacy.

There is plenty of available proof to show that Yoda was a master at lightsaber combat, able to go toe to toe with the likes of Sidious and Dooku.

Well he didn't actually technically say that in exact terms, he was simply using it as supporting evidence.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
I like Yoda, but he's never actually 'won' a single duel that we've seen.

Dooku- escaped both times.

Sidious- draw.

Galen has won at least 7 duels-

Rahm Kota.
Kazdan Paratus
Shaak Ti
Maris Brood
Darth Vader
2 Shadow Guards (maybe more)

To say nothing of his numerous training sessions with PROXY.

Even Yoda isn't beating him effortlessly.

This post has two facts and a conclusion. The implication then is that the conclusion was based upon the facts presented, such that:
Given: Yoda has won zero fights
Given: Starkiller has won seven fights
Conclusion: Yoda will struggle against Starkiller.

That certainly doesn't seem like a mere piece of supporting evidence. It seems like a piss-poor foundation to argue from.

It might strongly imply that he was of such a belief that the facts that he presented directly and adequately reach that conclusion, but again, and as I was saying, as far as what is directly and exactly stated, there is no faulty usage of logic. The only thing that can be said for sure was that he was using those facts as supporting evidence.

So then I can see two options:
1. That he did intend for that comparrison (number of matches won) to be the deciding factor in Yoda's performance against Starkiller

or

2. That he did not intend for that comparison to be sufficient to prove his case and has left his assertion ("Even Yoda isn't beating him effortlessly." unsupported.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
So then I can see two options:
1. That he did intend for that comparrison (number of matches won) to be the deciding factor in Yoda's performance against Starkiller

or

2. That he did not intend for that comparison to be sufficient to prove his case and has left his assertion ("Even Yoda isn't beating him effortlessly." unsupported inadequately supproted..

Except that Autokrat has observed, as have others (including me), that the evidence he submitted was unacceptable. To consider it supporting evidence is to ignore the definition thereof.

What he gave as evidence isn't evidence so it is unsupported.

The evidence alone may have been insignificant in light of other facts perhaps, however technically, technically, it would qualify as supporting evidence, as alone, it puts the odds in Galen Marek's favour, until further elaboration or counter evidence is provided.

Originally posted by KCIDSKCUSXER
The evidence alone may have been insignificant in light of other facts perhaps, however technically, technically, it would qualify as supporting evidence, as alone, it puts the odds in Galen Marek's favour, until further elaboration or counter evidence is provided.

Yoda is the best swordsman in the Jedi Order, according to the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook even, and the quality of those who've stalemated him far outweighs the quantity of folks listed except perhaps that maimed cyborgVader.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Yoda is the best swordsman in the Jedi Order, according to the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook even, and the quality of those who've stalemated him far outweighs the quantity of folks listed except perhaps that maimed cyborgVader.

EDIT: Why the hell doesn't the 'strike' feature work?

, Janus.

Thank you. There, fixed.

Originally posted by Gideon
, Janus.
On a side not why is it rather than ?
Since nothing else is on .

The evidence alone may have been insignificant in light of other facts perhaps, however technically, technically, it would qualify as supporting evidence, as alone, it puts the odds in Galen Marek's favour, until further elaboration or counter evidence is provided.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Yoda is the best swordsman in the Jedi Order, according to the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook even, and the quality of those who've stalemated him far outweighs the quantity of folks listed except perhaps that maimed cyborgVader. Do not address it, says the REX.

DERONGIEBNACDNAKCIDSKCUSXEREHT

Thankfully I'm used to backwards text due to the Satanic manipulations of Metallica, Led Zeppelin, and David Bowie albums. I see what you did there.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2lxf60z.jpg

SHDETAUYEBTOCNRATI

SNONM0SESHSARLUSECSEEHWOVRUCSFLYEDTIGT50APIT

That's right one step ahead of you fools.

(since he's hiding from me/on vacation):bye bye nebaris

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
(since he's hiding from me/on vacation):bye bye nebaris

Stop interacting with him. REX gave you an order.

I wasn't interacting with him.

edit: I was baiting DS.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
I wasn't interacting with him.

edit: I was having verbal sex with DS.

Indeed?

I'll thank you not to misquote me again.

Ever.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
So then I can see two options:
1. That he did intend for that comparrison (number of matches won) to be the deciding factor in Yoda's performance against Starkiller

or

2. That he did not intend for that comparison to be sufficient to prove his case and has left his assertion ("Even Yoda isn't beating him effortlessly." unsupported.

Okay spuddy.

Galen has been stated to have all but perfected lightsabre combat (as in, he's a hairsbreadth away from perfecting it).

He's a Juyo expert, which means he's a high-level master of multiple forms.

Even his training sessions were done with an opponent who was trying to kill him.

Darth Vader was 80% of Palpatine's power and Galen trashed him (as in soundly defeated him, not that Vader didn't put up a good fight).

I'd say that "Even Yoda isn't beating him effortlessly" is reasonable enough.

Take That Nemesis' beliefs!

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Galen has been stated to have all but perfected lightsabre combat (as in, he's a hairsbreadth away from perfecting it).

But was bested by Shaak Ti in saber combat, who is no where near as good as Yoda.

I believe Yoda mastered all forms, and is one of the greatest Aturo practitioners.

Yeah.

Galen, more less won a force contest. It was not strict lightsaber combat.

Vader being 80% the power of Palpatine has nothing to do with skill.

Not in an all out setting, no. But if this were a strict lightsaber contest, i don't see Galen giving him too much trouble.

Janus Marius, I thought Luke was the greatest lightsaber artist. Wouldn't it be hard for Yoda to master Djem So? Djem So is designed for physical strength and lets be real here, Yoda is a midget and wouldn't be able to win a physical bout. Ataru suited him best.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Janus Marius, I thought Luke was the greatest lightsaber artist.

Luke "was the greatest lightsaber artist" of his time; there is no quote or citation in canon that I'm aware of that states he is the most skilled duelist, greatest Jedi, or most powerful Force user ever.

Meanwhile (ignoring the Revenge of the Sith statement), the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook states that Yoda is the greatest swordsmen of his time; the point Janus was trying to make is that Yoda -- for all his lack of grace and small stature -- is an extremely accomplished swordsman.



I'd imagine, given how Windu refers to "the limitations imposed by stature and age" that Yoda would be unable to utilize Djem So properly. But that doesn't mean he doesn't understand the mechanics of the form as well as anyone else.

So, Yoda had to be most comfortable using Ataru. Mace felt comfortable using Vapaad. It boils down to what form the Jedi feels most comfortable with.

Prove it. Shaak Ti had 10+ years after Yoda's last showing to catch up, and was an already fantastic bladebeast. And she didn't best him, she had to commit suicide just to hit him, to bad he blocked her saber with the force at the last second.



True, but that doesn't put him above Marek.



Actually Marek did beat Vader in sabers, scoring multiple hits and dominating him when he got serious. Then he beat his ass in force.



Yeah, but as POD tells us, force power is the real clincher in lightsaber fights.
And I believe Marek references Vaders skill as almost flawless.



Look harder.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Prove it. Shaak Ti had 10+ years after Yoda's last showing to catch up, and was an already fantastic bladebeast. And she didn't best him, she had to commit suicide just to hit him, to bad he blocked her saber with the force at the last second.

She got her ass beat by Grievous. You say her skill with a saber increased? You prove it. Yeah her mastery in the force increased.





It proves he has more going for him.



I'll get back to you on this one. My brother has my book.

But i do remember Vader putting up a good fight. And i do remember their fight was more all-out than pure sabers. They used the force against each other through out their entire duel.



It can be, but not always. Grievous was not force sensitive, but owned just about every jedi he faced, and even beat Ventress.

Was Vader a skilled duelist? Very. As skillful as Yoda? Nope. As fast as Yoda? Not even close.



Don't need to.

Oh, shit!

Originally posted by chilled monkey
I like Yoda, but he's never actually 'won' a single duel that we've seen.

Dooku- escaped both times.

Sidious- draw.

Galen has won at least 7 duels-

Rahm Kota.
Kazdan Paratus
Shaak Ti
Maris Brood
Darth Vader
2 Shadow Guards (maybe more)

To say nothing of his numerous training sessions with PROXY.

Even Yoda isn't beating him effortlessly.

dude no one said effotlessly. but Yoda will beat him. unless he gets more training. I am willing to bet that he would fare much better if he hadn't died, so he could train more.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Prove it. Shaak Ti had 10+ years after Yoda's last showing to catch up, and was an already fantastic bladebeast.

She was regarded by several sources as an excellent duelist. But to compare to Yoda? That's an unbelievable exaggeration. She, as Sixty-six pointed out, lost to General Grievous, who (for all of his skills) could only make Dooku struggle occasionally: the same Dooku who was hopelessly outmatched by Yoda on a world steeped in the dark side.

There is a severe gap between Yoda and Ti in any context.



I know you've read the novelization, Exodus, and the novelization makes it explicitly clear that Marek was no match for Ti in a strict lightsaber fight; it was only his command of the Force that enabled him to survive.

Rofl.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Rofl.

Dislike it though you may, it's what happened.

Originally posted by Gideon
Dislike it though you may, it's what happened.

No, it's not. Not in that sense, anyways.

Yes, Yoda seems to have the edge. His "green burns hotter" even during the fight in Dark Rendezvous, which seems to support that Yoda is fighting either with more fury, or more skill, it's not clear.

However, I'd argue that "hopelessly outmatched" is a huge stretch. For one, Stewart describes Dooku pretty much countering every move of Yoda's, which implies he's able to keep from being ruthlessly dominated in the saber match. Yoda is literally breathing hard during a blade lock, showing that the old Jedi grows very tired when fighting Dooku, the second such example of the fighter winding Yoda in lightsaber combat.

Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground: but here on Vjun, steeped in the dark side, his bladework was malice made visible- wickedness cut in a red light.

This is an important qualifier for two reasons:

Firstly, it notes the conditional of his relation to Mace Windu, and adds a 'but', meaning that on Vjun, Dooku's operating on a higher level of proficiency than normal. This implies that when able to use the dark side to his advantage, he's able to increase his power enough to "counter Yoda's every move" and put up one hell of a fight with someone who is explicitly described as the greatest lightsaber duelist this era.

Secondly, it means Yoda and Dooku are not equals. While this seems to support your point, the key factor here is that it doesn't ever state how far apart Yoda and Mace are, nor does it ever imply anywhere throughout the book that Dooku is "hopelessly outmatched" by virtue of Yoda's superior fighting skills.

Here's something else to consider:

Then their blades clashed together in a lace of fire, green and red: but the green burned hotter. Slowly, slowly, Dooku gave way: and in the dark, drunken Vyun air, Yoda was terrible to behold.

This followed with Dooku's coaxing of Yoda to embrace the Dark Side seem to indicate that perhaps Yoda's not only fighting Dooku, he's fighting his own demons during this fight. Instead of Yoda being "awesome" or "amazing" or any other dozen descriptive terms which can be neutral or good, "terrible" is used, something to imply that which is bad. What does this mean? Is it that Yoda's connection to the Force is both enhanced and perhaps challenged by the darkness of the planet? I don't know. But it's the closest thing to a clear statement supporting your argument, and it's not reading "hopelessly outmatched", that's for sure.

The next passage describes how close their attacks where to each other - Dooku's slice comes so close Yoda can feel the heat of the lightsaber "centimeters from his tunic", and then Dooku parries an attack aimed at his back at the "last moment", and then brings his own blade across where Yoda was "seconds earlier". These two are clearly fighting at a breakneck speed and while Dooku is giving ground, I'd like to point out further that this is characteristic of his saber style and completely in-line with Yoda's own style.

Yoda is 100% aggressive with Ataru, and Dooku's style deliberately works to tire out an opponent and create openings to disable or kill them. There's nothing inherently unusual about Dooku giving ground. So this puts doubt into the latter half of that above passage into implying that Dooku is "hopelessly outmatched".

So again, I'm not saying Dooku > Yoda, or even Dooku = Yoda even on Vjun; what I'm saying simply is that your hyperbole is misleading and unsupported. While Yoda was winning, Dooku was not so far beneath him that he was "hopelessly outmatched".

That was surprisingly candid and agreeable.

The problem, Janus, is the passage also makes note of several particular events that make it abundantly clear that Dooku is no match for Yoda; not even on a world that enhances his dark side powers to an uncanny degree.

I do not have my copy of Dark Rendezvous on hand, so if I make a mistake, you'll have to correct me.

1. When Dooku initiates the duel, he hurls a woman out of a window. Yoda "bounds" to the window sill and uses the Force to dampen her velocity to "spill her" to the cobblestones (if memory serves). Simultaneously, Dooku is launching into an attack. While it's a clever tactic, it suggests that Dooku is unwilling to even start the duel on even terms; despite the fact that he is the beneficiary of a dark side nexus, he still has reservations about dueling Yoda on even footing.

2. The passage makes reference to Dooku "sweating" profusely, which is a telltale sign of strain, fatigue, and effort, given the fact that Makashi is lauded to be an unimaginably efficient form. Given how easily Dooku is able to replenish himself with the Force in Revenge of the Sith, it speaks a lot: he was overmatched. And this, once again, on a planet steeped in the dark side of the Force, from which he enjoys a considerable advantage.

3. Dooku not only retreats, but it's revealed he put a missile in high orbit because he knew, despite the metaphysical advantages afforded to by Vjun, despite the practical advantages afforded by the fact that he is in the middle of a Confederacy stronghold, "there was always a chance you could overpower me, of course." He acknowledges defeat even with all of these advantages.

Dooku had monumental advantages and was still outclassed.

Oh and by the way... you're still a bastard.

Wanting to put the battle in your favor is not a sign of being inferior, but a sign of playing unfair. Sith tend to do this.

Yoda even notes afterwards that Dooku "could have killed him", but did not. So perhaps Dooku's showing some restraint even then. Dooku's just as conflicted as Yoda is during this fight.



Dooku's sweating from the battle with Yoda, but he's not laboring for breath like Yoda is, for sure. Also, in the same sentence, he's described as "counter Yoda's every move", which means that even if he's sweating (Which is a normal thing to do during a furious battle with the greatest lightsaber user evar) he's still able to keep up. At no point is Dooku shown to be on the verge of collapse during the battle that I could see.



Dooku set up this entire scheme, knowing that he could lose to Yoda. Anything is possible, and while he's arguably one of the most proficient saber users in the era besides Yoda, he's never beaten him in anything before. Even push-feather, though to be fair they only played that when Dooku was small.

If I were about to battle someone of equal or better skill than myself, you had better imagine that I would have a Plan B. Dooku's not all about balls and glory, like Skywalker.

Additionally, Obi-Wan and Anakin's close proximity probably helped solidify his choice. It's also important to note that Dooku positions himself on the windowsill while telling Yoda about the missile, implying that he still was able to pace the fight well enough to not get backed into a corner or some other place undesirable. Even if Dooku did destroy Yoda through luck, having Anakin or Obi-Wan show up beforehand is an ugly possibility considering they were just casually going through waves of battle droids.

Originally posted by Gideon
Oh and by the way... you're still a bastard.

No u

*Freeze creek*

This all seems like a lot of effort for you two when you both agree Yoda > Dooku.

Welcome to KMC.

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
This all seems like a lot of effort for you two when you both agree Yoda > Dooku.

What can I say?

Janus is a bastard.

And Faunus is fat.

Yea a lot of you guys remind me of the Vampires in a series im currently reading because you seem to argue(debate) just because you can, but for no real reason.

The Necroscope is the series im referring to and you should check it out if you like reading about talented people and Vampires, its a horror series.

Originally posted by Gideon
What can I say?

Janus is a bastard.

And Faunus is fat.prove it

Yoda wins all 3, he has 900 years of exp plus the ability to do stuff such as move mountains.

Bump...

I sadly think the young upstart has the power to beat Yoda.

Originally posted by ares834
Bump...

I sadly think the young upstart has the power to beat Yoda. You son of a...

No.

Why was Gideon banned... It says SOCK.. but he wasn't a SOCK

Rex was gonna find out. But he never did.

Rex is about the worst detective you can ever imagine.

So then why was he banned?

He made some extra accounts years ago cuz he got confused or forgot his password or something like that. Apparently he didn't actually use them at all, but they showed up years later on a sock check so....

Justice was swift and fair. That menace had to go.

You know, Galen might win pending what we see in this next game. That trailer was about the most BA thing i've ever seen.

Originally posted by truejedi
You know, Galen might win pending what we see in this next game. That trailer was about the most BA thing i've ever seen.

No

Well he did make OT Emporer scream in pain in TFU1.. And is supposedly even more powerful in TFU2..

And this is ROTS Yoda we're talking about right? So less powerful than TFU Emporer.. Soooo....

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
No

That Trailer is as impressive as anything Yoda has ever done. (with the possible exception of stale-mating sidious).

He destroyed an entire group of people by exploding them.

Originally posted by truejedi
That Trailer is as impressive as anything Yoda has ever done. (with the possible exception of stale-mating sidious).



No

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLWh49bjNPo&p=BC5DF5328EEEB85E&playnext=1&index=26

2:37 as a small example.

I have seen that. And that isn't a small example, its the best example that exists to show Yoda's power. Galen CRUSHING the droid in the trailer was more impressive.

Originally posted by truejedi
I have seen that. And that isn't a small example, its the best example that exists to show Yoda's power. Galen CRUSHING the droid in the trailer was more impressive.

??? Crushing that droid was more impressive than telekinetically slamming two GINORMOUS ships together as if they were almost nothing???????? Hmmm... guess there's no use in trying to get through to you.

You're a lost cause damnit... lost I say! Good day sir!

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
??? Crushing that droid was more impressive than telekinetically slamming two GINORMOUS ships together as if they were almost nothing????????

Everyone's Force powers were enhanced and exaggerated for that cartoon to make it more exciting for kids.. The real Yoda from the Movies struggles to catch a pillar in AOTC.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Everyone's Force powers were enhanced and exaggerated for that cartoon to make it more exciting for kids.. The real Yoda from the Movies struggles to catch a pillar in AOTC.

The same goes for the game!! Force powers were greatly exaggerated in comparison to the movies.

The fact remains that the game, as well as the clone wars cartoon all stand as canon.

The Game itself isnt canon.. The Novel is, and to some extent the comic..
And the game was said to be over the top because its not Jedi its Sith going all out with their powers. They dnt hold back.. Not to mention it was about a particular character who has exceptional force abailites.

In the cw mini the story may be canon, but the force feats the characters displayed are not.. they are exaggerated.

Fact is nothing is more canon than the movies.. And in the movies Yoda struugles to catch a Large Pillar. That's whats totally canon.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The Game itself isnt canon.. The Novel is, and to some extent the comic..
And the game was said to be over the top because its not Jedi its Sith going all out with their powers. They dnt hold back.. Not to mention it was about a particular character who has exceptional force abailites. Kota was not a sith and he ripped a space station in half. Shaak Ti is not a sith and she was able to manipulate an entire planet. Paradus was not a sith and he was able to telekenetically control entire armies of droids.

Compared to the movies, just about the entire EU is exaggerated. Where is your source that says it is not canon?

*sigh*

POWER sounds like a less zealous Ush.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

Compared to the movies, just about the entire EU is exaggerated. Where is your source that says it is not canon?



Man I cant be bothered finding the sources now, but pretty much everyone who worked on that cartoon, including Lucas said the Jedi's powers were exaggerated in this.

Even Filoni while making the newer show said that about the original. Which is why you dnt see any feats That ridiculous in the new show. Just look at the first episode of the new show, where Yoda takes on all those droids, but nothing ridiculous on that scale as in the cw mini. Im sure those kind of powers would have been very useful to him there (if he actually had them!)

In terms of Canon, Movies come first, and I beleive the new CW series has been given a Cannon level below the movies but above everything else.

Show me once anywhere else in the SW Universe where Yoda comes even close to doing a feat like that, crashing Ships that Huge against each other, then you might start convincing me that wasnt an exaggeration.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Man I cant be bothered finding the sources now, but pretty much everyone who worked on that cartoon, including Lucas said the Jedi's powers were exaggerated in this.

Even Filoni while making the newer show said that about the original. Which is why you dnt see any feats That ridiculous in the new show. Just look at the first episode of the new show, where Yoda takes on all those droids, but nothing ridiculous on that scale as in the cw mini. Im sure those kind of powers would have been very useful to him there (if he actually had them!)

In terms of Canon, Movies come first, and I beleive the new CW series has been given a Cannon level below the movies but above everything else.

Show me once anywhere else in the SW Universe where Yoda comes even close to doing a feat like that, crashing Ships that Huge against each other, then you might start convincing me that wasnt an exaggeration.

And all of your needless interjection lends support to TJ's argument that SK's display is "as impressive as anything Yoda has ever done" in what way? Riddle me that homey!!

chinese

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Man I cant be bothered finding the sources now, but pretty much everyone who worked on that cartoon, including Lucas said the Jedi's powers were exaggerated in this.

Even Filoni while making the newer show said that about the original. Which is why you dnt see any feats That ridiculous in the new show. Just look at the first episode of the new show, where Yoda takes on all those droids, but nothing ridiculous on that scale as in the cw mini. Im sure those kind of powers would have been very useful to him there (if he actually had them!)

In terms of Canon, Movies come first, and I beleive the new CW series has been given a Cannon level below the movies but above everything else.

Show me once anywhere else in the SW Universe where Yoda comes even close to doing a feat like that, crashing Ships that Huge against each other, then you might start convincing me that wasnt an exaggeration.

Even the newer clone war series are exaggerated compared to the movies. They have Asoka doing things with the force that not even some jedi masters were shown capable of doing in the movies. They had Yoda catching an avalanche of huge free falling bolders in mid air, which were coming down at him at great speed. Can we dismiss that feat because he struggled with that pillar? I would say the pillar feat was PIS.

Most of the EU is exaggerated especially TFU. Hell Dooku's force battle with Yoda seemed lame compared to what we see in other material.

Crushing durasteel isn't more impressive than causing two flying objects to crash into each other? Flying Objects don't take all that much force to put out of balance. Galen re-directed a falling star destroyer. That took as much force as Yoda's feat. He also ripped a sky-elevator OUT OF THE SKY.

Come now. I like Yoda as much as anyone: But Yoda defeated Dooku in a fight that didn't take Dooku's life. ROTS Anakin anhilated Dooku (alledgedly... I still stand on my Anakin loses the re-match argument) Then TFU Vader, who is much more powerful than ROTS Anakin gets crushed by Galen BEFORE this new game. This proves the power levels are similar and quantifiable, so next we look at feats. Galen very well might have better feats after this next game.

Before the game comes out, i'm still thinking he loses.

Originally posted by truejedi
Crushing durasteel isn't more impressive than causing two flying objects to crash into each other? Flying Objects don't take all that much force to put out of balance. Galen re-directed a falling star destroyer. That took as much force as Yoda's feat. He also ripped a sky-elevator OUT OF THE SKY.

Come now. I like Yoda as much as anyone: But Yoda defeated Dooku in a fight that didn't take Dooku's life. ROTS Anakin anhilated Dooku (alledgedly... I still stand on my Anakin loses the re-match argument) Then TFU Vader, who is much more powerful than ROTS Anakin gets crushed by Galen BEFORE this new game. This proves the power levels are similar and quantifiable, so next we look at feats. Galen very well might have better feats after this next game.

Before the game comes out, i'm still thinking he loses.

Galen took next to forever to redirect said SD, while Yoda casually waves his hand to redirect two massive ships within what, 2 seconds at most. And one still has to take into consideration the sheer power required to manipulate several hundred-thousand (or more) tons of material in order to do so. This, to me, is at least as impressive as crushing the droid. I suppose we need to figure a way of estimating the force required to crush the droid in comparison to the force required to manipulate those however many tons of metal and whatever else.

And as far as a Vader/Anakin comparison goes; yes Vader has learned to harness his Force powers to a far greater extent than Anakin did, BUT, Anakin's saber skills were better, which is what aided him in his (not so apparent) destruction of Dooku. BTW, I'm with you that had Dookie gone all out from the get-go, he probably would have defeated Anakin and OB1 the second time around as well.

I'm thinking that had Dooku had a chance to battle suited Vader, Dooku would emerge victorious. While Vader's skill with the Force is incredible, it isn't enough to overcome Dooku, who is extremely deadly in his own right. Moreover, Dooku's skills with a lightsaber are lightyears beyond Vader's now that Vader has lost so much of his speed, agility, and overall mobility (although he has massive power, even while utilizing one handed strikes).

Apologies if my thoughts are not coming across clearly tonight.

In reference to my last post; What I mean is that while Vader is a beast with the Force, he isn't so far ahead of Dooku in that dept. that Dooku would be unable to counter his force attacks, seeing as how Dooku in incredibly deadly with the Force as well. The gap isn't as great as the gap between, say, Dooku and Obi-Wan was.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
And all of your needless interjection lends support to TJ's argument that SK's display is "as impressive as anything Yoda has ever done" in what way? Riddle me that homey!!

chinese

Because im saying crashing those massive ships into each other in 2 seconds is Yoda's biggest Force feat which im saying is an exaggerated feat. As were all the Force powers displayed in the CW mini.

Find me a feat of Yoda's outside that CW mini which clearly surpasses anything Galen ever did Homey

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Even the newer clone war series are exaggerated compared to the movies..

No not really.. Its just had 3 whole series to show more of what jedis are capable of. Iv not seen anything in the new series which is completely inconsistent with the movies.

We dnt see Mace take down a whole droid army with the force alone, when he culdnt reperform anything even close to that feat on Genosia when backed by 200 jedi!!

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
They have Asoka doing things with the force that not even some jedi masters were shown capable of doing in the movies.

Like what?? I dnt remember Ashoka doing anything that would be beyond a Jedi Master. And Ashoka has been referenced in the series to being quite talented for a padawan by the way.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
They had Yoda catching an avalanche of huge free falling bolders in mid air, which were coming down at him at great speed. Can we dismiss that feat because he struggled with that pillar? I would say the pillar feat was PIS.

I never said the Pillar feat was the full extent of Yoda's powers. I was just using it as an example to show how unbelievably inconsistent the force powers displayed in the cw mini and the movies are. And lets remember Dooku threw the Pillar with his own Power.

But like I said its because the CW mini EXAGGERATED Jedi Force Powers. Its really that simple!


Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Most of the EU is exaggerated especially TFU. Hell Dooku's force battle with Yoda seemed lame compared to what we see in other material.

Whats exaggerated in the TFU novel exactly?? You dnt see Jedis suddenly doing things they could never do before. The gameplay isnt cannon, but the novel and comic is.

As for Dooku vs. Yoda, it doesnt have to look impressive for them both to be powerful. They were just countering each others force attacks.

Its all canon, even if it is exaggerated.

Originally posted by truejedi
Its all canon, even if it is exaggerated.

If their powers are exaggerated then they cant actually do those things.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Because im saying crashing those massive ships into each other in 2 seconds is Yoda's biggest Force feat which im saying is an exaggerated feat. As were all the Force powers displayed in the CW mini.

Find me a feat of Yoda's outside that CW mini which clearly surpasses anything Galen ever did Homey

The fact remains, DP, that everything listed above is canon, like it or not. And within said canon, we have Yoda slamming two massive ships together with apparent ease, and SK crushing said droid like a coke can - ALL CANON!! You simply cannot argue with canon.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
If their powers are exaggerated then they cant actually do those things. Yeah, they can. It's all C-canon, whether you like it or not.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
If their powers are exaggerated then they cant actually do those things.

Absolutely false. They can do those things. In fact, they did them, so there is no really disputing that they are capable.

Originally posted by truejedi
Absolutely false. They can do those things. In fact, they did them, so there is no really disputing that they are capable.

So explain then why they were never able to do such things outside the cw mini??

why did mace not force crush all the droids on Genosia??

why was Yoda taking out droids commando style in the first episode of the new cw series when all he had to do is use the force to lift them all, and crush their ships against each other??

Why was Cad Bane able to escape from Mace and Obiwan just by having a few lasers start firing at them?? And they had to escape from that room.. Mace culdnt simply crush them!

Use your common sense! They dnt have those powers! Show me the proof anywhere else in the SW Universe that they have those kind of powers!

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
So explain then why they were never able to do such things outside the cw mini??

why did mace not force crush all the droids on Genosia??

why was Yoda taking out droids commando style in the first episode of the new cw series when all he had to do is use the force to lift them all, and crush their ships against each other??

Why was Cad Bane able to escape from Mace and Obiwan just by having a few lasers start firing at them?? And they had to escape from that room.. Mace culdnt simply crush them!

Use your common sense! They dnt have those powers! Show me the proof anywhere else in the SW Universe that they have those kind of powers!

Whether they did them twice or not is irrelevant. The fact that they did them once means they can do them.

Otherwise we are back to saying that Dooku >>>> Anakin, because Anakin only beat his ass once.

for that matter, Sidious only ever used force storm in Dark Empire. Was he therefore "not capable" of such a feat? His respawn ability was only from DE as well. Is he "not capable"? answer, i'm curious where your hypocrisy ends.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
So explain then why they were never able to do such things outside the cw mini??

why did mace not force crush all the droids on Genosia??

why was Yoda taking out droids commando style in the first episode of the new cw series when all he had to do is use the force to lift them all, and crush their ships against each other??

Why was Cad Bane able to escape from Mace and Obiwan just by having a few lasers start firing at them?? And they had to escape from that room.. Mace culdnt simply crush them!

Use your common sense! They dnt have those powers! Show me the proof anywhere else in the SW Universe that they have those kind of powers!

-Why in the comic Jedi: Yoda, Yoda used the force to knock a small army of King Alaric's forces unconscience with just a wave of his hand, but never did this in the movies?

-Why in the new clone war series was Mace able to reduce several battle droids to scrap, but did not do this in the movies when it could have been useful?

-Why in ROTS was Sidious able to levitate himself along with several other senate pods, but was unable to save himself from being thrown down a shaft in ROTJ?

-Why is Darth Bane able to move an entire moon, but was exhausted after callapsing a temple.

-Why in TFU Paradus is able to control an entire army of droids, but yet Yoda (the most powerful jedi of his time) struggled with a pillar?

Seriously, I can write a book of "whys" about SW.

BTW, I was joking about the Darth Bane bit.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
So explain then why they were never able to do such things outside the cw mini??

why did mace not force crush all the droids on Genosia??

why was Yoda taking out droids commando style in the first episode of the new cw series when all he had to do is use the force to lift them all, and crush their ships against each other??

Why was Cad Bane able to escape from Mace and Obiwan just by having a few lasers start firing at them?? And they had to escape from that room.. Mace culdnt simply crush them!

Use your common sense! They dnt have those powers! Show me the proof anywhere else in the SW Universe that they have those kind of powers! We never said it was a SMART idea to implement the CW in to canon. Just like it's not a smart idea to implement any of Marek's or Vader's abilities in to canon so close to the saber fight in ANH. But it happened, so come to peace with it.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
We never said it was a SMART idea to implement the CW in to canon. Just like it's not a smart idea to implement any of Marek's or Vader's abilities in to canon so close to the saber fight in ANH. But it happened, so come to peace with it.

ANH was made in 1977, was the first SW film made on a tight budget, so that fight was just down to bad choreography.. And just because Obiwan and Vader were not doing sumersaults and jumping around, doesnt mean they culdnt do those things.

Just look at Vader fighting in ESB and ROTJ, he was miles better than in ANH

However when we've been told on more than one occasion the Force feats in the CW mini are exaggerated, and we can see those feats clearly contradict what the same Jedi's are capable of doing in all other sources, then I would at least hope you guys would have the sense not to compare feats inside that cartoon to feats outside of it when comparing different characters abilities.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
ANH was made in 1977, was the first SW film made on a tight budget, so that fight was just down to bad choreography.. And just because Obiwan and Vader were not doing sumersaults and jumping around, doesnt mean they culdnt do those things.

Just look at Vader fighting in ESB and ROTJ, he was miles better than in ANH

However when we've been told on more than one occasion the Force feats in the CW mini are exaggerated, and we can see those feats clearly contradict what the same Jedi's are capable of doing in all other sources, then I would at least hope you guys would have the sense not to compare feats inside that cartoon to feats outside of it when comparing different characters abilities.

It is C-canon, just like TFU is. You can sit and say how it does not fit with the movies all you want, and we might agree, but we can not change the fact that it is canon? We do not decide what is canon and neither does Filoni.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
ANH was made in 1977, was the first SW film made on a tight budget, so that fight was just down to bad choreography.. And just because Obiwan and Vader were not doing sumersaults and jumping around, doesnt mean they culdnt do those things.

Just look at Vader fighting in ESB and ROTJ, he was miles better than in ANH

However when we've been told on more than one occasion the Force feats in the CW mini are exaggerated, and we can see those feats clearly contradict what the same Jedi's are capable of doing in all other sources, then I would at least hope you guys would have the sense not to compare feats inside that cartoon to feats outside of it when comparing different characters abilities. The Clone Wars cartoon is C-canon. Deal with it and move on.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66


Actually i would give it to Yoda. Yoda and Marek are pretty close in the force, but Yoda is far greater in sabers.

Agreed

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The Clone Wars cartoon is C-canon. Deal with it and move on.

Ok dnt use common sense then

haha, think your idea of common sense is more important then Lucas's idea of common sense then.

Originally posted by truejedi
haha, think your idea of common sense is more important then Lucas's idea of common sense then.

ah probably is.. although i dnt recall it stating anywhere the force feats in cw mini were all canon..

I only remember people including lucas and filoni saying the force feats in that mini were exagerrated (presumably for entertainment purposes)

It's ALL for entertainment purposes ya jackwagon.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
It's ALL for entertainment purposes ya jackwagon.

Not sure if anyone told you yet.... but..... i t s n o t r e a l... shhhhhh

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
ah probably is.. although i dnt recall it stating anywhere the force feats in cw mini were all canon..

I only remember people including lucas and filoni saying the force feats in that mini were exagerrated (presumably for entertainment purposes) I don't recall Lucas ever saying that.

Source please.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Ok dnt use common sense then OK, disobey canon then. Guess you have no place here, considering we obey canon.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
OK, disobey canon then. Guess you have no place here, considering we obey canon.

***k canon... you obey me... you ***king know it.

fullmop

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Not sure if anyone told you yet.... but..... i t s n o t r e a l... shhhhhh

i need a canon quote before I'm going to believe that claim.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
***k canon... you obey me... you ***king know it.

fullmop Memento mori, my pedigree chum.

^ posted at 4:20 heh heh heh!!

rip1

Originally posted by truejedi
Its all canon, even if it is exaggerated.

Originally posted by truejedi
Absolutely false. They can do those things. In fact, they did them, so there is no really disputing that they are capable.

Absolutely brilliant.

I lift 20 pounds. Then I exeggerate that story, and proclaim that I lifted 20,000 pounds. All over a sudden, I did lift 20,000 pounds. Thanks to truejedi, everybody can be Superman. It just needs a little bit exeggeration to turn everything into reality...

If something is exeggerated and we know that it is, because the creator of a piece of canon told us himself (as it happens in the Clone Wars Volume I DVD commentary), then we do have to think about what is exeggerated and to what extend the original storyline (the basic canon) has been altered. Simply proclaiming "but it's canon" doesn't help. Otherwise anything contained within a canon source is absolute gospel, even when it's stated that it's a lie (e.g. some of Kreia's statements).

You may rename yourself into "truelagoflogic" now. That way, your username can serve as headline to your postings.

Originally posted by Borbarad
...Otherwise anything contained within a canon source is absolute gospel, even when it's stated that it's a lie (e.g. some of Kreia's statements).


It IS absolute gospel that she said those things, whether they are lies or not.

The problem with the exaggeration argument is that we actually see these things occur. IIRC people in TFU (its very name add credence to this) are said to be exaggerated but their feats are still used, becuase we actually see or read what happens directly.

Not to mention that cannonicity has been given an order for a reason:

1) G- Canon (movies and statements of George Lucas. Can also include novels of Episode's 1-6).

2) T - Canon (This one is new. But its basically all the new TV series theyre making. So the new CW Animation comes here, and also the new live action series due to come out soon).

3) C- Canon (basically everything else that fits into canon).

Now if it were just a matter of canon or not, then there would be no order here.. No G's and C's.

But there obviously is an order for a reason. So everything in C- Canon can be considered canon as long as it does NOT DIRECTLY CONTRADICT Canon sources T or G. If it does then its not canon.

A good example of this is a story before ROTS stating Ki-Adi-Mundi was appointed to the Jedi Council without being given Mastership. But then ROTS (a G canon source) clearly stated Anakin was the first one to be appointed to the council without being given mastership in Jedi history.

Therfore that specific part of the Ki-Adi-Mundi story is no longer valid and no longer canon. (which does not necessarily mean the WHOLE story is no longer canon)

Originally posted by Borbarad
Absolutely brilliant.

I lift 20 pounds. Then I exeggerate that story, and proclaim that I lifted 20,000 pounds. All over a sudden, I did lift 20,000 pounds. Thanks to truejedi, everybody can be Superman. It just needs a little bit exeggeration to turn everything into reality...

If something is exeggerated and we know that it is, because the creator of a piece of canon told us himself (as it happens in the Clone Wars Volume I DVD commentary), then we do have to think about what is exeggerated and to what extend the original storyline (the basic canon) has been altered. Simply proclaiming "but it's canon" doesn't help. Otherwise anything contained within a canon source is absolute gospel, even when it's stated that it's a lie (e.g. some of Kreia's statements).

You may rename yourself into "truelagoflogic" now. That way, your username can serve as headline to your postings.


If you DID lift the 20k lbs, then indeed it is NOT exaggerating to say so.

Since Mace DID destroy an army with his fists, it is NOT exaggerating to say so.

Since Yoda DID smash ships together, it is NOT exaggerating to say so.

These things DID happen, therefore the feats themselves are not exaggerated. The overall concept of force use is exaggerated, but the feats themselves happened, and therefore ARE a measuring stick of their abilities. Why is that so hard to understand? You are supposed to be intelligent, but here you fail, and hard.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Absolutely brilliant.

I lift 20 pounds. Then I exeggerate that story, and proclaim that I lifted 20,000 pounds. All over a sudden, I did lift 20,000 pounds. Thanks to truejedi, everybody can be Superman. It just needs a little bit exeggeration to turn everything into reality...

If something is exeggerated and we know that it is, because the creator of a piece of canon told us himself (as it happens in the Clone Wars Volume I DVD commentary), then we do have to think about what is exeggerated and to what extend the original storyline (the basic canon) has been altered. Simply proclaiming "but it's canon" doesn't help. Otherwise anything contained within a canon source is absolute gospel, even when it's stated that it's a lie (e.g. some of Kreia's statements).

You may rename yourself into "truelagoflogic" now. That way, your username can serve as headline to your postings.

Actually, it was stated in the commentary of the old cartoons that the feats shown are what the jedi were capable of if they did releash there full power. I believe it was said during Mace's scene on dantooine, either that or it was the part where Yoda callapsed part of the mountain on those droids.

Simply proclaiming "but it ISN'T canon" does not help either, especially when what is shown contradicts your claim. If we go by your logic, then TFU is not canon either since every jedi in it out did anything Yoda has displayed in the movies feat-wise. No one said it was a good idea, but neither was the way Vader easily killed Palpatine after seeing what Palpatine was capable of during his battle with Yoda.

Do you remember which part of the dvd of vol. 1 where the commentary said the feats shown are exaggerated?

Originally posted by truejedi

Since Mace DID destroy an army with his fists, it is NOT exaggerating to say so.

Since Yoda DID smash ships together, it is NOT exaggerating to say so.

These things DID happen, therefore the feats themselves are not exaggerated.

Those things happened only in a cartoon where the use of the force was said to be exaggerated.

Il tell you whats so hard for me to understand, which none of you have given a decent explanation for yet.. If Mace DID destroy an army with his fists and the force alone like you claim, then why did he allow 200 jedis to be killed on Genosia? Why did he not use these amazing abilities there??

If Yoda DID smash ships together, and did take out hunderds of droids with simple shock waves, then where did those abilites disappear to in the first episode of the new CW animation??

Im guessing the only answer im gna get is "doenst matter cause its canon" or "inconsistencies exist deal with it" which is just a cop out way of saying you guys dnt have an answer.

In fact find me anywhere else in the SW Universe where Mace and Yoda display such feats.. Im guessing that you can not.. You know why?? Because the CW mini EXAGGERATED the Jedis use of the Force! Instead of telling me to deal with it, perhaps its you guys who need to start using some logic and common sense and dealing with that simple fact.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

Simply proclaiming "but it ISN'T canon" does not help either, especially when what is shown contradicts your claim.

I dnt think anyone claimed the show itself isnt canon, but just that the use of the force in it was exaggerated.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

If we go by your logic, then TFU is not canon either since every jedi in it out did anything Yoda has displayed in the movies feat-wise.

Which Jedi did what in TFU that beats Yoda spinning and chucking a senate pod, easily lifting a sunkun X-Wing(and that was in his really old age)???

It would only be a contradiction if Yoda (or lesser jedis) were suddenly doing things they clearly culdnt do in the movies. If that happens G-Canon takes precedence over C-Canon. And so does T-Canon for that matter.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

No one said it was a good idea, but neither was the way Vader easily killed Palpatine after seeing what Palpatine was capable of during his battle with Yoda..

Vader took Palpatine by surprise while he was shooting Luke, then had to absorb all his lightning(from which he himself dies), and still needed the Death Star generator to chuck him into.

I hardly call that a complete contradiction to what we see in the ROTS fight.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

Do you remember which part of the dvd of vol. 1 where the commentary said the feats shown are exaggerated?

Its been said many times by many different people. Not that you need evidence to see a kiddish cartoon was amplifying force powers for entertainment purposes, much like they do in game play mechanics.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

Im guessing the only answer im gna get is "doenst matter cause its canon" or "inconsistencies exist deal with it" which is just a cop out way of saying you guys dnt have an answer.



Actually , no, inconsistencies DO exist. We gave you about 12 from the movies that you refused to address. If you are going to play the "why didn't they do this" card, then at least don't be such a coward as to not address the post the nails your argument to the wall. I'll quote it again to give you another shot at it.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
-Why in the comic Jedi: Yoda, Yoda used the force to knock a small army of King Alaric's forces unconscience with just a wave of his hand, but never did this in the movies?

-Why in the new clone war series was Mace able to reduce several battle droids to scrap, but did not do this in the movies when it could have been useful?

-Why in ROTS was Sidious able to levitate himself along with several other senate pods, but was unable to save himself from being thrown down a shaft in ROTJ?

-Why is Darth Bane able to move an entire moon, but was exhausted after callapsing a temple.

-Why in TFU Paradus is able to control an entire army of droids, but yet Yoda (the most powerful jedi of his time) struggled with a pillar?

Seriously, I can write a book of "whys" about SW.

BTW, I was joking about the Darth Bane bit.

I actually like his better, because it gives it from a variety of sources. Either you discount all sources ever, or you drop this.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Actually, it was stated in the commentary of the old cartoons that the feats shown are what the jedi were capable of if they did releash there full power. I believe it was said during Mace's scene on dantooine, either that or it was the part where Yoda callapsed part of the mountain on those droids.


That is George Lucas himself saying that.

And DP, before you ask for a source, let me para-quote you "Its been shown many times, go find it if you are interested."

Frustrating isn't it?

Don't complain about ace Windu in the CW when Starkiller does this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58Lj0hIXmjA

Iv already addressed this, your just not paying attention to what im saying.

"-Why in ROTS was Sidious able to levitate himself along with several other senate pods, but was unable to save himself from being thrown down a shaft in ROTJ?"

Iv addressed that just in my last post..

"Why in the comic Jedi: Yoda, Yoda used the force to knock a small army of King Alaric's forces unconscience with just a wave of his hand, but never did this in the movies?
-Why in the new clone war series was Mace able to reduce several battle droids to scrap, but did not do this in the movies when it could have been useful?"

You see he's completely missing the point with these examples.. I never said if they dnt do a feat in the movies then they cant do it. Of course your going to see more feats in the whole EU than just in the movies.

But when a feat is shown which COMPLETELY CONTRADICTS whats shown in the movies, then G- Canon is the source to believe. The Force feats done in the cw mini were clearly in a whole different power set.

And none of the above feats were said anywhere by the creators of those stories to be over-the-top exaggerated feats. None of those feats CLEARLY CONTRADICT whats shown in the movies. We didnt really see Yoda take on armies in the movies..
Mace crushing 2 battle droids in with the Force on Ryloth hardly contradicts his abilities on Geonosis in AOTC where he and the other Jedis were facing Hundreds of Droids.

He cant take down hundreds unless he does it commando style. And he certainly cant take down hundreds head on, without his lightsaber, so with just his fists and the force alone! LOL

Its upto you if you wana believ AOTC or if you wana believe an over the top version of the same characters Force Powers as shown for kids entertainment. But you cant believe them both, cause theres a blatant contradiction there. And its not a small contradiction. Its a HUGE ONE!