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The Hellfire Club consisting of Sebastian Shaw, Emma Frost (including diamond power), Selene, Magneto, Tessa, and Donald Pierce

versus


The Avengers consisting of Captain America, Warbird, Scarlet Witch, Vision, Thor, and Iron Man.


What do you think?

Avengers 10/10

Without Thor however, they probably wouldn't stand a chance :/

Isn't Thor susceptible to magic? Selene is one of the most powerful sorcerers in the Marvel Universe. She's also an energy vampire.

Avengers.

In fact, combination of Selene and Magneto is more than enough to kill Thor off.

Originally posted by Nthplay7
Isn't Thor susceptible to magic? Selene is one of the most powerful sorcerers in the Marvel Universe. She's also an energy vampire.

Susceptible to magic?

-Everybody- is susceptible to magic, but Thor happens to be vastly more resistant than any of the bunch.

She's not one of the most powerful sorcerers, not by a long shot.

Originally posted by Survivor19
In fact, combination of Selene and Magneto is more than enough to kill Thor off.

Alas, if only Magneto could resist more than one blow from Mjolnir. Or resist him absorbing his forcefields.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze

She's not one of the most powerful sorcerers, not by a long shot.

Off topic but we haven't seen the extent of her magic powers however given the fact that Kulan Gath was threatened by them I'd say that alone leaves a lot of doors open regarding how powerful she really is. That and she's actually one of the few characters that exist that predates Thor and has lunch with Demonic Entities so it wouldn't surprise me if she was one of the most poweful sorcerers in the MU.

"Off topic but we haven't seen the extent of her magic powers however given the fact that Kulan Gath was threatened by them I'd say that alone leaves a lot of doors open regarding how powerful she really is."

Precisely. I guess this is going to boil down to Selene and Thor. Well, it would be interesting to see how Selene's ability to control and/or reshape inanimate objects would affect Thor's hammer. Her brand of telekinesis involves putting a part of her lifeforce into an object. I wonder if she did such a thing to Thor's hammer, if it would "corrupt" it.

Come to think of it, Emma Frost could probably possess Scarlet Witch and use her to take out Thor. She did a similar thing with the White Queen she replaced when she forced her to shoot the original White King. And Frost has experience working with probability-alterers, like the Scarlet Witch, as one of her deceased pupils had the same power (Roulette).

As for the rest of the pair-ups, Tessa is a sharper strategist than is Captain America, Magneto would probably put his daughter on a time out, Vision would make a mess out of Sebastian Shaw, and Emma Frost would easily subdue Warbird. It would be interesting to see how Iron Man and Donald Pierce matched up.

Of course as a team, I'd give it to the Avengers in a field battle, even with the Hellfire Club having Tessa as a strategist. They just have way more experience in that area. If we were talking about which team would probably be better at "battling for the world" so to speak, I'd give it to the Hellfire Club. They have more economic influence, even more that Iron Man. And they have more social influence. Heck, Captain America should have turned to them during Marvel's Civil War. One of their members even started her own religion for crying out loud.

N way in hell is a team with Captain America on it going to loose.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Off topic but we haven't seen the extent of her magic powers however given the fact that Kulan Gath was threatened by them I'd say that alone leaves a lot of doors open regarding how powerful she really is. That and she's actually one of the few characters that exist that predates Thor and has lunch with Demonic Entities so it wouldn't surprise me if she was one of the most poweful sorcerers in the MU.

She's roughly low-mid herald at best.

She is far-far-far-far from the most powerful sorcerers in the Marvel UNIVERSE. And Kulan Gath? You're not referring to Exiles I hope.

This guy:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/klgath.htm

Uncanny X-Men #189-191 IRRC.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
This guy:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/klgath.htm

Uncanny X-Men #189-191 IRRC.

Regardless.

Until Selene actually displays any kind of superiority to Kulan Gath, or gets better feats, then she won't be taking on Thor. Even with Magneto by her side.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Regardless.

Until Selene actually displays any kind of superiority to Kulan Gath, or gets better feats, then she won't be taking on Thor. Even with Magneto by her side.

That's why I said Off-topic .

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
That's why I said Off-topic .

Ah, I see it now

My point was simply that when you consider the existence of so many magical characters, someone like her could lay claim to a "top 10 title" or anything like that.

If we follow that guy, who is writing 'Old Man logan', then magneto and Radioactive man is enough to kill Thor.
And Selene > RM

Originally posted by Survivor19
If we follow that guy, who is writing 'Old Man logan', then magneto and Radioactive man is enough to kill Thor.
And Selene > RM

Divergent Reality written by Millar doesn't count unfortunately and there was no indication to whether or not that was Odin Force Thor.

Their best bet would be to attack Thor mentally since his showings tend to be inconsistent in that area but in a forum match the inconsistency kind of nullifies itself.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Divergent Reality written by Millar doesn't count unfortunately and there was no indication to whether or not that was Odin Force Thor.

Their best bet would be to attack Thor mentally since his showings tend to be inconsistent in that area but in a forum match the inconsistency kind of nullifies itself.

Apparently Thor can react to mental attacks pretty quickly.

Thor lost to who in "Old Man Logan"?

Avengers

"She's roughly low-mid herald at best.

She is far-far-far-far from the most powerful sorcerers in the Marvel UNIVERSE. And Kulan Gath? You're not referring to Exiles I hope."


Marvel Universe disagrees with you: "The long-standing Black Queen of the Hellfire Club's Inner Circle, Selene Gallio professes to have lived for several millennia, and to have been a foe of the ancient sorcerer, Kulan Gath. In past ages, she was renowned as a sorceress whose power was feared and respected by other magic users." That's from Marvel dot com.


Additionally she's shrugged off mystical blasts from Amanda Sefton (Daytripper, Magik) and has had immortals for breakfast.

That doesn't sound like a weak sorceress to me.

Originally posted by Nthplay7
The Hellfire Club consisting of Sebastian Shaw, Emma Frost (including diamond power), Selene, Magneto, Tessa, and Donald Pierce

versus


The Avengers consisting of Captain America, Warbird, Scarlet Witch, Vision, Thor, and Iron Man.


What do you think?

thor would solo and then he'd pimp slap the avengers for being useless.

Originally posted by Nthplay7
"She's roughly low-mid herald at best.

She is far-far-far-far from the most powerful sorcerers in the Marvel UNIVERSE. And Kulan Gath? You're not referring to Exiles I hope."


Marvel Universe disagrees with you: "The long-standing Black Queen of the Hellfire Club's Inner Circle, Selene Gallio professes to have lived for several millennia, and to have been a foe of the ancient sorcerer, Kulan Gath. In past ages, she was renowned as a sorceress whose power was feared and respected by other magic users." That's from Marvel dot com.


Additionally she's shrugged off mystical blasts from Amanda Sefton (Daytripper, Magik) and has had immortals for breakfast.

That doesn't sound like a weak sorceress to me.

Marvel doesn't disagree with me at all really....

She could've conquered Earth, like Apocalypse, and still be FAR FAR FAR from any of the stronger characters in Marvel. Being feared for a long time means nothing when her feats don't stack up.

Current Thor solos. Current Scarlet Witch is a wacko.

One has to wonder why Thor doesn't pimplsap the Avengers for being useless more often.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
One has to wonder why Thor doesn't pimplsap the Avengers for being useless more often.

crapy writing?

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
crapy writing?

Could be :P

Apocalypse finds it boring to conquer. That's why he doesn't do that.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Marvel doesn't disagree with me at all really....

She could've conquered Earth, like Apocalypse, and still be FAR FAR FAR from any of the stronger characters in Marvel. Being feared for a long time means nothing when her feats don't stack up.


You haven't been following the Dr. Doom and the Masters of Evil storyline. Dr. Doom told Magneto that Selene could take both of them out in seconds (evidently with his back-up Sentinels, no less).
She may be underused, but she's as powerful as she is old.

Avengers win via Scarlet Witch

Originally posted by Nthplay7
You haven't been following the Dr. Doom and the Masters of Evil storyline. Dr. Doom told Magneto that Selene could take both of them out in seconds (evidently with his back-up Sentinels, no less).
She may be underused, but she's as powerful as she is old.

I have, and that storyline is full of PIS.

Baron Zemo, Executinor and Enchantress were jobbing as hell. I'd also like to know exactly from where Magneto appeared.

Plain shit.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I have, and that storyline is full of PIS.

Baron Zemo, Executinor and Enchantress were jobbing as hell. I'd also like to know exactly from where Magneto appeared.

Plain shit.


Well, how is this going to work? I've referenced Marvel itself three times with regards to Selene. You OTOH only refer to what has not been written about her (i.e. she's never taken over the world--as if that is a major criterion for being one the the most powerful sorcerers). Do you have any examples of where Selene was royally outclassed by an immortal or a sorcerer? That would go over more than saying, "Well, I've never read her do this or that." That's a flawed line of thought, as you're making the conclusion that if you've never read her doing something, she obviously has not/cannot. That's clearly fallacious.

I should have mentioned the reason I started this thread was because the original TV show Avengers (Emma Peel) popularized the original Hellfire Club legend.

Even regular Thor has the possibility of soloing the club. Selene is not ****ing with the hammer. She's never shown that level of magical prowess. And Thor can tank or absorb most of their attacks.

Originally posted by Nthplay7
You haven't been following the Dr. Doom and the Masters of Evil storyline. Dr. Doom told Magneto that Selene could take both of them out in seconds (evidently with his back-up Sentinels, no less).
She may be underused, but she's as powerful as she is old. Is that even canon?

Originally posted by Nthplay7
Well, how is this going to work? I've referenced Marvel itself three times with regards to Selene. You OTOH only refer to what has not been written about her (i.e. she's never taken over the world--as if that is a major criterion for being one the the most powerful sorcerers). Do you have any examples of where Selene was royally outclassed by an immortal or a sorcerer? That would go over more than saying, "Well, I've never read her do this or that." That's a flawed line of thought, as you're making the conclusion that if you've never read her doing something, she obviously has not/cannot. That's clearly fallacious.

Taking over the world was an example....It was an example of how word of mouf means absolutely -nothing- in Marvel verse. I used Apocalypse as an example because he supposedly killed off the Avengers, but even he wouldn't stand a chance against Thor.

The only thing the Selene fans have brought to the table was some respect from Kulan Gath. I've read a fair share of x-men comics over the years, and I've never seen anything that puts her on par with Thor. Trevor Fitzroy had her in his spooling chamber for months for crying out loud. Supposedly beating a pack of "immortals" doesn't mean shit when only a few of those have any feats at all.