Ganondorf runs a gauntlet.

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ArtificialGlory
1. Sephiroth
2. God Kratos
3. Kain
4. Galen Marek
5. Kil'jaeden

Rules:
a) Ganondorf has the Triforce of Power, but does not require Light Arrows/The Master Sword to be harmed or defeated.
b) If a combatant's body is sufficiently damaged for the combatant to be physically killed, then he is considered defeated. This means that Kain can't keep coming back from the dead and Sephiroth can't "will" himself back into existence.

Burning thought
God Kratos probably has a good chance, the rest apart from Sephiroth are prob a little over the top.

NemeBro
Makes it to Kil'Jaedan and probably loses(I don't know much about him).

ScreamPaste
I don't even know who Kil'Jaeden is, so no idea what happens there, but otherwise it looks like Ganon makes it through.

Q'Anilia
Kil'Jaeden is larger than a mountain I'll go ahead and add stick out tongue

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Kil'Jaeden is larger than a mountain I'll go ahead and add stick out tongue Which is not helpful if you're sealed between dismensions. <.<

Nemesis X
No one can get past Kratos.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Nemesis X
No one can get past Kratos. Brian Boitano could.

Although thinking about it, without his immunity, God Kratos may very well defeat him.

K1ll3r
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
1. Sephiroth
2. God Kratos
3. Kain
4. Galen Marek
5. Kil'jaeden

Rules:
a) Ganondorf has the Triforce of Power, but does not require Light Arrows/The Master Sword to be harmed or defeated.
b) If a combatant's body is sufficiently damaged for the combatant to be physically killed, then he is considered defeated. This means that Kain can't keep coming back from the dead and Sephiroth can't "will" himself back into existence.

I have a question, how does he kill Sephiroth?

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by Nemesis X
No one can get past Kratos.
You're the only one so far who seems to think so.

NemeBro
Originally posted by K1ll3r
I have a question, how does he kill Sephiroth? By turning him into a harmless, bodiless soul.

Or just sealing him in another dimension.

Your pick.

ScreamPaste
Probably by OP sealing him between dimensions or otherwise shreddign his body and /KOing his soul. Ganon's broken.

K1ll3r
Originally posted by NemeBro
By turning him into a harmless, bodiless soul.

Or just sealing him in another dimension.

Your pick.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Probably by OP sealing him between dimensions or otherwise shreddign his body and /KOing his soul. Ganon's broken.

0.o So it would be like He- *Gets sent to another dimension*

Technically, if it was that op couldn't he just do that to anyone?

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by K1ll3r
0.o So it would be like He- *Gets sent to another dimension*

Technically, if it was that op couldn't he just do that to anyone? Pretty much, unless they have power similar to his allowing them to break out, I don't know enough about Kil'Jaeden to say whether he gets sealed, but yeah.. That's only one of the OP abilities Ganon has.

NemeBro
Originally posted by K1ll3r
0.o So it would be like He- *Gets sent to another dimension*

Technically, if it was that op couldn't he just do that to anyone? Yep. Only reason he does not do so to Link is because Link is protected by the Plotforce.

I am pretty sure Kil'Jaedan can traverse Dimensions.

K1ll3r
Kil'Jaeden doesn't have anything special to get him out of dimensions, basically he is an incredibly potent magician demon.

If there is no limit on Ganondorfs Dimension Seal ability, then he could seal them all away.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Yep. Only reason he does not do so to Link is because Link is protected by the Plotforce.

I am pretty sure Kil'Jaedan can traverse Dimensions.

Not without someone helping him.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by NemeBro
Yep. Only reason he does not do so to Link is because Link is protected by the Plotforce.

I am pretty sure Kil'Jaedan can traverse Dimensions.

That makes things harder, but Ganon can still win. Lotsa big things are weakish, look at Saviour.

NemeBro
Kil'Jaedan is not some pathetic weaksauce Savior.

ScreamPaste
Like I said, not a clue who he is. There was a Sephiroth vs thread with him in it, though, and not to use A>B>C logic, but if Seph had a shot >.>

NemeBro
People here have argued Sephiroth would beat Pyron.

Do not judge power based on them being put against Sephiroth.

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by K1ll3r
Kil'Jaeden doesn't have anything special to get him out of dimensions, basically he is an incredibly potent magician demon.

If there is no limit on Ganondorfs Dimension Seal ability, then he could seal them all away.



Not without someone helping him.

Kil'Jaeden cross dimensions all the time. He even entered the realm of spirits. He has ripped open the Twisting Nether and not even used a shadow of his true powers yet.

He can do it without help. He couldn't enter Azeroth without help, that's all. Azeroth is not some regular system anyone can just walk into. It's shielded by the barrier of the Pantheon. Not even Sargeras could breach Azeroth with extremely excessive spellweaving.

Burning thought
Kain can cross dimensions as well, theres no way Ganon could beat Kain in any form, certainly not one who can be harmed physically.

ArtificialGlory
I should have made this thread a poll.

About Kil'jaeden crossing dimensions: what Q said.

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain can cross dimensions as well, theres no way Ganon could beat Kain in any form, certainly not one who can be harmed physically.

We know.

Burning thought
Then Kiljaeden need not even be mentioned, we also know he can wipe Ganon out handily too.

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by Burning thought
Then Kiljaeden need not even be mentioned, we also know he can wipe Ganon out handily too.

Should.

ScreamPaste
Lol, BT, I want to hear this, how would Kain beat Ganon?

Burning thought
Most of his powers could defeat Ganon, any of his soul destroying powers, his lightning storm would fck him up, his time bolts and any speed advantage anyone may think he has over Kain would be elminated immedialtey through either Kains teleportation or his AOE time powers to slow ganon to a crawl.

what does Ganon have to possibly even harm Kain? hell even hit him for that matter?

ScreamPaste
Lol, you're kidding right? Ganon possesses Kain, and makes him rip his own head off.

Soul destroying? No limits fallacy, I see, this assumes he can destroy any soul, Ganon's soul is far from your garden variety flesh inhabiting soul. Without any form of body Ganon is still more powerful than Kain.

Lightning? This falls under the 'don't start wars you can't win' category.

Slow him down, that'll really help once he TK's Kain.

Burning thought
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Lol, you're kidding right? Ganon possesses Kain, and makes him rip his own head off.

Soul destroying? No limits fallacy, I see, this assumes he can destroy any soul, Ganon's soul is far from your garden variety flesh inhabiting soul. Without any form of body Ganon is still more powerful than Kain.

Lightning? This falls under the 'don't start wars you can't win' category.

Slow him down, that'll really help once he TK's Kain.

Or the other way round, not that Ganon could ever possess Kain, whats he ever done with his possession? what has it worked on?

Not a fallacy at all, does Ganon have soul protection or not? simple question...

Ganons highest durability feat is?

erm, TK's Kain? apart from the fact Kain could easily do the same ot ganon, Kain could easily just teleport or mist to escape, Ganon cannot mist and ive not seen his teleport if he has one at all, all Kain has to do is teleport next to Ganon while his time slow is in effect then send incapaciation, a time freezing bolt into Ganon, making him a statue.....screwed...

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by Burning thought
Or the other way round, not that Ganon could ever possess Kain, whats he ever done with his possession? what has it worked on?

Not a fallacy at all, does Ganon have soul protection or not? simple question...

Ganons highest durability feat is?

erm, TK's Kain? apart from the fact Kain could easily do the same ot ganon, Kain could easily just teleport or mist to escape, Ganon cannot mist and ive not seen his teleport if he has one at all, all Kain has to do is teleport next to Ganon while his time slow is in effect then send incapaciation, a time freezing bolt into Ganon, making him a statue.....screwed...
Ganon can teleport freely, instantly and without limit. He can discorporate at will, but is strong enough that Kain's TK won't even effect him. If Kain tries to "mist" out, he'll still be trapped in TK, and he can still be harmed in mist form, well played.

Yes Ganon's soul is protected.

He's possessed another being with the power of one of the three deities of Hyrule.

Ganon's highest durability feat, lemme see. Surviving castle explosions totally unharmed, surviving his own anathema through his skull without being disabled, KO'd, or otherwise incapacitated. There's no way Kain can even hurt Ganondorf, lol.

Incapacitation bolt has to get through Ganon's defenses, he's shown to be able to block such things, including light arrows, sorry. And even then, it's not stopping Ganon.

Seriously, Kain vs Ganon is spite, Kain has no chance, lol.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Burning thought
Or the other way round, not that Ganon could ever possess Kain, whats he ever done with his possession? what has it worked on?

Not a fallacy at all, does Ganon have soul protection or not? simple question...

Ganons highest durability feat is?

erm, TK's Kain? apart from the fact Kain could easily do the same ot ganon, Kain could easily just teleport or mist to escape, Ganon cannot mist and ive not seen his teleport if he has one at all, all Kain has to do is teleport next to Ganon while his time slow is in effect then send incapaciation, a time freezing bolt into Ganon, making him a statue.....screwed... 1. He possessed Zelda and made her fight Link. And besides, Kain has never shown resistance to such a power.

2. Considering Ganon's own soul powers are greater than Kain's and he can use them with a thought, this point is irrelevant.

3. Surviving multiple hits from the Master Sword and Light Arrows without a scratch, the Light Arrows disintegrate anything that is not Ganon.

4. Problem is Ganon's TK is far greater than Kain's, holding up his castle and even Zant, who possesses a minute fraction of Ganon's power, easily TK held Link and Midna, and repelled the most powerful Light Spirit in Hyrule with a thought. Yes, Ganon can do this with a thought.

ScreamPaste
He didn't even need to think to keep his castle levitated.

Burning thought
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Ganon can teleport freely, instantly and without limit. He can discorporate at will, but is strong enough that Kain's TK won't even effect him. If Kain tries to "mist" out, he'll still be trapped in TK, and he can still be harmed in mist form, well played.

Yes Ganon's soul is protected.

He's possessed another being with the power of one of the three deities of Hyrule.

Ganon's highest durability feat, lemme see. Surviving castle explosions totally unharmed, surviving his own anathema through his skull without being disabled, KO'd, or otherwise incapacitated. There's no way Kain can even hurt Ganondorf, lol.

Incapacitation bolt has to get through Ganon's defenses, he's shown to be able to block such things, including light arrows, sorry. And even then, it's not stopping Ganon.

Seriously, Kain vs Ganon is spite, Kain has no chance, lol.

Show me. and hes not strong enough. If kain is mist he wont be trapped unless Ganon has held vapour, show me...

by what? show me this protection, what has it protected against?

And Kain is protected against possession, Marcus could not control his mind and this was young Kain.

Ive seen it, all it was, was some dragon flame that ive not seen the strength of to gauge, and some rubble from his castle falling on him, hardly as powerful as Kains lightning.

Its a bolt of energy, if he tries to block it, he will be hitting it, thus freezing himself, and you did not read my post, I said while he is slowed in time.

If you said the reverse you would be correct.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. He possessed Zelda and made her fight Link. And besides, Kain has never shown resistance to such a power.

2. Considering Ganon's own soul powers are greater than Kain's and he can use them with a thought, this point is irrelevant.

3. Surviving multiple hits from the Master Sword and Light Arrows without a scratch, the Light Arrows disintegrate anything that is not Ganon.

4. Problem is Ganon's TK is far greater than Kain's, holding up his castle and even Zant, who possesses a minute fraction of Ganon's power, easily TK held Link and Midna, and repelled the most powerful Light Spirit in Hyrule with a thought. Yes, Ganon can do this with a thought.

1. Hes shown resistance to having his mind taken control, what form does Ganons possession take? show me him possessing.

2.Not really, explain and provide proof of these claims.

3. What have they disintegrated? their just arrows of light created to defeat evil, weaker than actual blasts of lightnig from the heavens that can splatter beings.

4. provide evidence please of the castle feat and ability to use with a thought.

This still does not change the fact Kain would be invulerable to Ganon in mist form, Kain cannot be defeated by Ganon still, Ganon i still vulerable to mind powers, soul powers, time powers, most of which Ganon could not stop because Kain merely has to teleport next to him for it to take effect, thus the beauty of Duration based Auras.

ScreamPaste
1. He discorporates and enters their body, puppeting them from the inside.

2. I'm at skool so I can't get to any good sites, I'll do it later, the point stands, maybe Nemebro will do it, he seemed happy to steal my job as the forum math-wiz. Fvcker. <3

3. Normal people survive lightning all the time, light arrows consistently disintegrate anything they hit in LoZ. A light arrow would one shot Kain, fyi.

4. Evidence of the castle feat? Go to youtube, and type in 'OoT Ganon's castle', Any video you find should show a massive castle floating above a pit in the ground filled with lava. Ganon doesn't even need to think about it to maintain the effect, and later on collapses the castle.

Edit: 5. Kain would not be invulnerable to Ganon in mist form, Kain can be hurt in this form. Show me these Aura's helping Kain against an enemy even close to Ganon's power. .

Burning thought
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
1. He discorporates and enters their body, puppeting them from the inside.

2. I'm at skool so I can't get to any good sites, I'll do it later, the point stands, maybe Nemebro will do it, he seemed happy to steal my job as the forum math-wiz. Fvcker. <3

3. Normal people survive lightning all the time, light arrows consistently disintegrate anything they hit in LoZ. A light arrow would one shot Kain, fyi.

4. Evidence of the castle feat? Go to youtube, and type in 'OoT Ganon's castle', Any video you find should show a massive castle floating above a pit in the ground filled with lava. Ganon doesn't even need to think about it to maintain the effect, and later on collapses the castle.

1. So its actually a physical movement? he actually has to enter Kains body? lol.......he would end up losing his soul pretty quick, especially if he has no physical form..

2. k

3. normal people survive normal lightning you mean....lol a light arrow probably would not even harm Kain, hes not evil afterall, not to mention one would not hit him anyway.

4. But I need evidence of him actually the one keeping the castle levitated, evidance that it is his power, that it is actually TK.

5. No, Kain can be hurt in the mist Shroud form, which hides Kain in the mist, its a BO2 move specific to that series. Ganon would require resistance to time to survive the aura, sincehe does not have this resistance, he is immedialtey screwed against Kain.

ScreamPaste
Lemme see, the castle used to be in the ground when it belonged to The Hyrulian royal family, then you come back after he takes it over, and it's levitating above the pit in the ground that Ganon tore it out of, what else could do that?

Edit; so what you're saying is if Ganon tore up a chunk of the earth's crust and TK'd Kain's mist form into the lava beneath, Kain'd be fine? =P Sorry, but I doubt this.

1. Lol at Kain stealing Ganon's soul. Kain'd get puppeted.

2. k.

3. A light arrow is outside Kain's proven reaction time, sorry. =P

4. See above.

5. See above.

Burning thought
Does not mean he is using TK or any other force, maybe he used a spell that took him days to cast to create the levitation, do you actually know for a fact what he uses to keep it leviated? is it stated in the game or are you assuming?

Burning thought
Originally posted by ScreamPaste


Edit; so what you're saying is if Ganon tore up a chunk of the earth's crust and TK'd Kain's mist form into the lava beneath, Kain'd be fine? =P Sorry, but I doubt this.

1. Lol at Kain stealing Ganon's soul. Kain'd get puppeted.

2. k.

3. A light arrow is outside Kain's proven reaction time, sorry. =P

4. See above.

5. See above.

Edit: tore up a chunk of the earths crust? lol.....that immedialtey made this edit a joke but ill humour you, Kain is mist, first and foremost, you would have to prove Ganon can even TK vapour in the first place, which I highly doubt and I doubt mist in lava would do anything, maybe dispurse it into even more mist...makes no diffrence to Kain, not that Ganon could TK him while in mist form.

1. Thats just a troll statement, you did not make an argument or counter argument to my own.

3. But not outside the reaction time of the one drawring the weapon that fires it.

4. see above

5.see above

ScreamPaste
Here's my win for the night.

Ganon can create teleport proof prisons as seen in every game ever, Zelda who can teleport at will is held helpless inside of jewel shaped prisons which Ganon can create at will. Oh noez, Kain turned into mist inside his bubble, isn't that cute? Then in an instant, Ganon drops the bubble and zaps the crap out of Kain before he can react. Lightning? Kain's lightning < Ganon's lightning.

And no, blocking a bolt doesn't meant it hits him, it means Ganon stopped it harmlessly, he can do it to a light arrow, which outpowers anything Kain has, and is anathema to Ganon, and he can stop it harmlessly.

Burning thought
Assumption, could have been PIS, thats all I have to say to break your argument to pieces.

Light arrows are actual objects, you would have to be a fool to try and hit the bolt which just so happens to have the very objective of hitting you, Ganon not looking and seeming the most intelligent of beings would probably actually try that, thus, kain wins without having to do much at all.

If you have to revert to something as lowly as that then I hope Namebro has something better for Ganons defence lol....and thats completly ignoring LOK canon.

ScreamPaste
You're a tool if you believe that, Ganon's the most intelligent character in Zelda, which is btw, a puzzle based game, full of intelligent characters, one of whom is the herald of the Godess of Wisdom.

Hell, Ganon could let the bolt hit him and it'd have no effect, does it effect bosses? Show me it affecting the most powerful boss in the LoK universe, it's the closest you'll come to Ganon. Your claim is baseless, and the ability has no feats.

And lowly? Lol. Your entire defense is that Kain can turn into mist, and you're claiming without any base Kain's abilities can effect a being far more powerful than himself while Ganon's powers cannot effect Kain. Let me highlight how poor an argument that is.

This fight lasts this long;

Ganon; Lollightning.
Kain; Ow. /splat.

Burning thought
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You're a tool if you believe that, Ganon's the most intelligent character in Zelda, which is btw, a puzzle based game, full of intelligent characters, one of whom is the herald of the Godess of Wisdom.

Hell, Ganon could let the bolt hit him and it'd have no effect, does it effect bosses? Show me it affecting the most powerful boss in the LoK universe, it's the closest you'll come to Ganon.

A tool? and the fact its a puzzle based game is neither here nor there, how can you be defeated by the same little Legolas midget so many times and not actually stand a chance despite having all these powers, hes nearly as bad as sephiroth.

As i said, resistance is whats important, various things in gameplay do not effect the bosses such as the instant spirit death or possesion abilities, despite the fact most of them are humans roll eyes (sarcastic)

Bullshit statement, a character far more powerful? this character in question has zero defence to most of these elements and is fighting a vampire who is not only ancient but has powers to stop almost all of Ganons attacks and in his youngest stages could give Ganon a run for his money, dont bash Kain when your defending someone who is fighting a legolas midget and loses.

Its more like

Ganon:ahaha! I am the king of evil! woah wtf...whats this mist entering my body!

arraaahhhh SPLAT! Ganons skull shatters and Kain casts off his remains.

also blood shower ftw

ScreamPaste
Lol, you're joking, right? Legolas midget? This statement only shows your ignorance of the Zelda series. Ganon's resistant to soul powers, has greater soul powers, has more powerful TK, can stop the most potent magic against him in it's tracks, survive trikes from a 1000+ ton character, tear castles out of the ground with a thought, ect.. Kain's got nothing. This isn't even a debate.

show me one feat of destruction on Kain's part even close to destroyign a castle? Show him paralyzing the Elder God or whatever in LoK. Show me anythign andicating any of his powers even reach close to the scope it requires to harm or affect Ganondorf. Do it?

PIS? Those jewel shaped prisons are a trademark, they allow Ganon to keep Zelda captured, it needs to be teleport proof. Is that PIS, or just good planning on Ganon's part?

Blood shower on a being so durable a castle's worth of exploding debris can't break his skin?

Burning thought
Youve not proven the resistance to soul powers yet. The TK is only becuase of an assumption, a massive assumption and still not yet proven. Kains repel shield can stop magic and physical attacks, hell magic attacks barely hit it, it just reflects them. And the last statement is bullshit youve made up, the developers never mentioned this 1000+ ton shit, if you want deductions then Kain turns the LOZ universe into energy fragments and dust.

Show me Ganon destroying a castle first, not that its relavent, humans, hell young children have been brought out alive from rubble, its not even a feat considering Ganon is obvioulsy beyond the typical human at least.

Its PIS that Zelda cannot teleport, unless its stated offical that they dont allow teleportation.

Blood shower is spell based, the spell is like a curse, the spell itself is not necesserily have to break the skin, just as long as you cant prove every pore on Ganons body is immune ot having his blood sucked out, obvioulsy not, all his veins burst, his eyeballs pour from their sockets and his throat ruptures so his blood pours forth, either way, blood shower ****s up Ganondorf.

ScreamPaste
Show me Kain using blood shower on something as durable as Ganon? :]

And sorry, but Ganon doesn't even need a physical body, so let's say, theoreticly, that IF it maybe could POSSIBLy affect Ganon; Ganon discorporates, and bubbles Kain, or Lightning's Kain, or Crushes his head with TK, then reforms.

anyway, lunch time. I has a hungrish.

Burning thought
Show me Ganon using any of his powers against someone as old as Kain? or even as green as Kain? :]

Ah sorry but lets say he could do any of his other powers without physical form (evidence plx?) Kain just reforms or transforms into mist to escape any onslaught then takes Ganons soul with ease.

ArtificialGlory
Guys," b) If a combatant's body is sufficiently damaged for the combatant to be physically killed, then he is considered defeated. This means that Kain can't keep coming back from the dead and Sephiroth can't "will" himself back into existence."

There won't be any reforming for either of them.

Burning thought
So Kain may not use mist?

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Burning thought
So Kain may not use mist?

He can use mist. He can't come back if his body gets mutilated though.

Burning thought
So he can become mist and reform from the mist? I think i get what you mean.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Burning thought
So he can become mist and reform from the mist?

Of course.

Burning thought
Good, well as I said, he eliminates Ganondorf fairly easily, the guy cant take soul powers AND time powers and has no real feats of durability shown that are far beyond a strong human.

LLLLLink
Sealing in the gap between dimensions will work for everyone, wont it?

Burning thought
Not if that being can travel dimensions, and Ganondorf can unlikely do that quickly.

ScreamPaste
What do you mean Ganon's durability isn't beyond a strong human? Pack yourself with enough explosives to do away with a castle, detonate them, see what happens. Ganon took such an attack totally unharmed.

And I don't care if your don't believe in Link's strength being 1000+ because even class 100 attacks are far beyond what Kain can dish out, and Link is FAR above class 100, so you still lose that argument.

Burning thought
No he just took falling amongst rubble of his castle, nothing more. What are you talking about? packed with explosives, just because his castle was destroyed does not mean he took the same force, infact the Castle may have taken most of it considering its the castle that was destroyed.

I dont agree hes he can carry any tonnage at all, he would not use swords and hundreds of items if he can take his enemies on with his bare hands, throughout the Zelda serieis a ton of items have always been used, swords, bows, magic etc, if he was 1000+ or 100, he would not use such weapons and only your assumptions point at him being that strong.

ScreamPaste
First, you're wrong. Play TP. A castle explodes as a RESULT of an attack centered on Ganon.

Second, you're wrong. Canon disagrees with you and no speculation will put Link's strength anywhere close to as low as Kain's while he's fought Ganon. In every game by this point his strength is immense.

Burning thought
An attack from a dragon, the castle still obvioulsy takes most of the force for it to explode and he still is buried in rubble, nothing more, and he was quite high in the castle as well.

No canon disagrees with me at all. The only time it may is toonforce, which is not taken into account.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Burning thought
An attack from a dragon Wrong

Burning thought
Which you talking about, this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSnb_t08BrU&feature=related

NemeBro
No, that is Ocarina of Time, not Twilight Princess.

I think he is talking about when Midna destroyed his castle in an attempt to defeat Ganondorf, which ended with Midna defeated and her Fused Shadows crushed in the palm of Ganon's hand.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by NemeBro
No, that is Ocarina of Time, not Twilight Princess.

I think he is talking about when Midna destroyed his castle in an attempt to defeat Ganondorf, which ended with Midna defeated and her Fused Shadows crushed in the palm of Ganon's hand.
KORREKT.

Midna destroyed the castle in her attack on Ganon, and he was totally unharmed.

Also, toonforce? LOL. Weak defense is weak. So BT, you mean Link throwing the Goron is toonforce? And the intentionally badass throwing of the massive granite pillar is toonforce? This is like claiming Kratos holding apart Atlas' thumb and index finger is toon force. laughing

NemeBro
Once, there were three bitches. And they passed their power onto three other bitches. Only one was not a b!tch. Lo and behold, he was Ganondorf, and he was all that was righteously awesome.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by NemeBro
Once, there were three bitches. And they passed their power onto three other bitches. Only one was not a b!tch. Lo and behold, he was Ganondorf, and he was all that was righteously awesome.

Yep, there's always someone who decides not to be anyone's *****.

Burning thought
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
KORREKT.

Midna destroyed the castle in her attack on Ganon, and he was totally unharmed.

Also, toonforce? LOL. Weak defense is weak. So BT, you mean Link throwing the Goron is toonforce? And the intentionally badass throwing of the massive granite pillar is toonforce? This is like claiming Kratos holding apart Atlas' thumb and index finger is toon force. laughing

Show me, theres always a discrepancy that I find in most of these claims, whether the power was tiny, or there was a specific scripted event, or it was because Ganon was holding item A and not B, or perhaps the castle itself was a wooden stick fort....so I would like to see.

Throwing the pillar was an inconsistancy feat, and the actual weight was worked out by you alone, not actually stated by the people who made the game, which makes it non legit, the Goron is toon force yes, he even bounces up and down like a toonforce character when he hits the lava. No its not, not at all, GOW is 100% mature game, meant for a mature audiance, LOZ is for younger players.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by Burning thought
Show me, theres always a discrepancy that I find in most of these claims, whether the power was tiny, or there was a specific scripted event, or it was because Ganon was holding item A and not B, or perhaps the castle itself was a wooden stick fort....so I would like to see.

Throwing the pillar was an inconsistancy feat, and the actual weight was worked out by you alone, not actually stated by the people who made the game, which makes it non legit, the Goron is toon force yes, he even bounces up and down like a toonforce character when he hits the lava. No its not, not at all, GOW is 100% mature game, meant for a mature audiance, LOZ is for younger players.

Lol, you never actually find any descrepancy, you just clm such, or cry toonforce, and you're always wrong. Canon>you. The castle was Hyrule castle, and it exploded when Midna attacked Ganon.

VDSPEfyrnwc

Also, the granite pillar is not inconsistency, it's STATED to be granite by Nintendo in the official guide, and is too dark to be anythign but black granite, and yet I mathed it as the MUCH lighter white granite, AND didn't include the full volume of the pillar, GG, sir. Through the game you do this THREE times, it's not inconsistant, it's a cutscene, it's canon.

The goron is not toonforce, and neither is that video. You're just trying to downplay a franchise you've never played because you hate it when Kain loses. </win>

LLLLLink
I hate when these arguements get to the point where denial takes over...

Burning thought
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Lol, you never actually find any descrepancy, you just clm such, or cry toonforce, and you're always wrong. Canon>you. The castle was Hyrule castle, and it exploded when Midna attacked Ganon.

VDSPEfyrnwc

Also, the granite pillar is not inconsistency, it's STATED to be granite by Nintendo in the official guide, and is too dark to be anythign but black granite, and yet I mathed it as the MUCH lighter white granite, AND didn't include the full volume of the pillar, GG, sir. Through the game you do this THREE times, it's not inconsistant, it's a cutscene, it's canon.

The goron is not toonforce, and neither is that video. You're just trying to downplay a franchise you've never played because you hate it when Kain loses. </win>

Lie, Canon also>you, unfortunatley its mostly against you.

And whats amusing is theres many discrepencies in this video.

1. Ganon did not even have physical form so not a durability feat

2. Its likely he used a teleport spell to apear because he ended up god knows how far from his castle minutes later.

3. We dont even see the explosion taking place with ganon inside, infact we dont really know what happened, we dont see it, so you and fanboys screaming "zomg castle exploded on Ganon!" is pathetic.


Its inconsistant, simply because Link is never a 1000+ tonner, or lifts a stone like that anywhere else and your the only one who claims its 1000 tons, not the developers. Too dark to be anything but black granite where? on Earth or Hyrule, because last time I checked Hyrule is not planet Earth. By less than your class of deductions Kain could wipe out most fictional universes by himself.

Its toonforce, you saying real beings bounce up and down in lava as well? youll be telling be bugs bunny repairing himself from dust while his mouth is talking in mellow dramatic tones is realistic? lol.....LOZ is an imature game, for young audiances,its no wonder theres a lot of toonforce.

Kain loses based on what? Ganon may as well be as strong as Hulk and as durable as the silver surfer, even if I accepted your fan fictions the weapons Kain uses make Ganon or Link useless. Hell as I said earlier, using your own logic, Kain wipes out the Hyrule universe, goes back in time then does it again....

NemeBro
Originally posted by Burning thought
LOZ is an imature game, for young audiances,its no wonder theres a lot of toonforce. Point out one time other than the Goron bouncing on lava.

And please learn to spell. You're 18-19, start writing like it.

Burning thought
You've only shown me a Goron bouncing in lava so how am I supposed to point out more toonforce? there are likely many other times than that, although one time is enough to point out the fact toonforce exists in LOZ and its still for younger audiences, that much nobody can disagree.

No thanks, this forum is not worth my time to spell perfectly, especially for intellects such as yours so it should not matter although I realise you cannot put a good Ganon argument together so you have to complain about spelling errors? I understand smile

leonheartmm
legend of zelda is an IMMATURE game?!

Burning thought
Yes its for a much younger audience, hence toonforce and other cutsey mechanics and characters, I mean Midna is a little elf, the story seems to be based around one of those "zomg save da sweet pink pwincess!" sort of stories. Doesn't link get turned into, or turn others into bunnies? or blobs of jelly? its not on the level of seriousness or maturity as God of war, Legacy of Kain, Devil may cry etc

leonheartmm
god of war, legacy of kain and devil may cry are mostly for youngr teenagers who go "YAY DANTE!!!!! **** DAT DEMON UP" quite mindless, but good, for what they are. zelda might look cartoony on the surface but is a far better developed game than the above, better story, and all, and has darker elements lurking underneath it. same with okami. just because sumthing is beautfiul doesnt mean its just for children.

more MATURE games, in the real sense wud be, xenosaga/.hack/shadow hearts/ beyond good and evil/rules of rose/silent hill/metal gear solid/okami/ico etc

zelda is a significantly better seroes then the ones u mentioned.

Burning thought
As I said, toonforce, "rescue pink pwincess" elements, DMC story is fairly light but the LOK is far superior to all mentioned including LOZ, the story of LOZ seems fairly simple, Link is simply always trying to stop Ganon from causing whatever evil he is doing, its like a reverse on cat and mouse, only the mouse is getting stronger along the way and eventually beats the cat.

The only one I know is Silent hill, which is merely a horror, the story is no more deep or adult than any other game and metal gear is not more adult at all....you must have just listed games you like, and not evaluating their maturity.

soroes? regardless, that does not make a diffrence on the maturity, its still a game for young players, with a fairly simple story and cutsey characters.

Phanteros
LOK's story is about a dying landscape caused by Kain's Ruling

Burning thought
Thats just one part of it, the storyline combines deep time travelling elements where the sequels actually reveal new information as well as shed light on why certain things happened the way they did in previous titles. Most if not all of the story is fairly deep. Also this is just my opinion but Legend of Zelda has no voice acting that I have seen, its important in a story to actually get a feel for characters through voice acting, nobody can disagree that LOK series is perhaps one of the best games for voice acting.

Most games stories are fairly simple and common in comparison to LOK

leonheartmm
Originally posted by Burning thought
As I said, toonforce, "rescue pink pwincess" elements, DMC story is fairly light but the LOK is far superior to all mentioned including LOZ, the story of LOZ seems fairly simple, Link is simply always trying to stop Ganon from causing whatever evil he is doing, its like a reverse on cat and mouse, only the mouse is getting stronger along the way and eventually beats the cat.

The only one I know is Silent hill, which is merely a horror, the story is no more deep or adult than any other game and metal gear is not more adult at all....you must have just listed games you like, and not evaluating their maturity.

soroes? regardless, that does not make a diffrence on the maturity, its still a game for young players, with a fairly simple story and cutsey characters.

actually i like dmc a lot, as well as LOK and GOW. but they are NOT what you wud call MATURE stories, LOK is OK, not bad, but DEFINATELY not deep or truly well developed.

u say that about zelda because thats what it SEEMS to you on the surface. wacky character=/=badly developed story. look and JACK, story wise it beats most of the mentioned. look at OKAMI, Legacy of kains's story doesnt even come CLOSE. the former being one of the greatest games ever. and there ico, almost no story, and yet it has a story to tell, and not a childish one at all.

and i LOL ed at the "deep time travelling elements". if you want DEPTH, play xenosaga or silent hill. your judgement of silent hill is based in ignorance, its story is mature as can be and moreso, maturely DEVELOPED. having subtle but strong themes and allusion. metal gear solid has one of the best stories out there, and is quite mature in its own right. certainly better than LOG or devil may cry or LOW.

zelda is NOT just for children. a game that WUD be for children wud be the various incarnations of pokemon or digimon.

as for the DIALOGUE. its simply not true. final fantasy 9/crono cross/vagran story ALL have no aural dialogue and all are LIGHTyears ahead of legacy of kain, in character development and as games in general.

leonheartmm
legacy is of kain has exactly TWO major themes. narcissism and REVENGE. while GOW is based almost entirely on revenge. unfortunately, neither explores these concepts in a very original way.

Burning thought
Originally posted by leonheartmm
actually i like dmc a lot, as well as LOK and GOW. but they are NOT what you wud call MATURE stories, LOK is OK, not bad, but DEFINATELY not deep or truly well developed.

u say that about zelda because thats what it SEEMS to you on the surface. wacky character=/=badly developed story. look and JACK, story wise it beats most of the mentioned. look at OKAMI, Legacy of kains's story doesnt even come CLOSE. the former being one of the greatest games ever. and there ico, almost no story, and yet it has a story to tell, and not a childish one at all.

and i LOL ed at the "deep time travelling elements". if you want DEPTH, play xenosaga or silent hill. your judgement of silent hill is based in ignorance, its story is mature as can be and moreso, maturely DEVELOPED. having subtle but strong themes and allusion. metal gear solid has one of the best stories out there, and is quite mature in its own right. certainly better than LOG or devil may cry or LOW.

zelda is NOT just for children. a game that WUD be for children wud be the various incarnations of pokemon or digimon.

as for the DIALOGUE. its simply not true. final fantasy 9/crono cross/vagran story ALL have no aural dialogue and all are LIGHTyears ahead of legacy of kain, in character development and as games in general.

This is just a baseless statement, you need to give reasons otherwise its hopeless.

You explain Zeldas story then, its no deeper than what I said it was. Okami? I think your just listing stories you prefer, not that are actually better, I bet if you would explain the storyline of Okami it would be unconvincing or one of those lackluster storylines you see too often especially if you mean:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%8Ckami

If so....then its obvious your choosing what story you enjoyed or understood, not the one which is deep or unique at all because by the looks of the storyline described, its one of those "zomg evil spirit has to be stopped from destroying the world!" kind of things.

I didnt say it was just for children, I said it is better for younger audiances, its certainly not mature, and certainly full of toonforce and cutsey ideals and simple morals.

lol you could never debate that, Ive yet to see a final fantasy game with good characters and although ive not played 9 it cannot be much diffrent, it sounds to me your just a fan of Japanese made RPG's

LOK is deep and its sequels always fill some holes while creating more cliff hangers, most games, certainly not DMC, GOW do not do that.

leonheartmm
i did in the following paragraph.

zelda has en entire world, the kind of elements it depends on for puzzles and story development etc, like music for instance, are innovative and add depth to the story. if you are gonna be summarising stories in a few sentences , you will never get a feal for what they are. youve never played zelda, so how can u say?

and did you SERIOUSLY say that okami had a LACKLUSTER storyline?!?!?!?!?!?!?! OBVIOUSLY u have never even touched the game. it is a seemless blend of nearly every major japanese myth in existance in their classical context. grandeose and non stereotypical as they get. as for CUTESY, yea, okami can be cutesy, but then it is rated teen-matire, having deaths, EXTREMELY adult jokes, near nudity, perversion, foul language and a host of other things which no KID wud be encouraged to follow. it forms a contract to the cutesy characters and graphics. so NO, it is NOT a game for children. you are aweful narrow minded and judgemental.

and how many final fantasy games have you completed????? and how can u judge 9 if you havent even PLAYED it. i dont have to PROVE ANYTHING to you. u can keep loving lok as the greatest game ever, but it isnt to the most of the world, and that is for a good reason.

LOK's plot is CHILDSPLAY compared to xenosaga/shin megami tensei/shadow hearts/silent hill. but more importantly, t never tried to be anything too deep in the first place. you just cant compare some things.

Burning thought
Originally posted by leonheartmm
i did in the following paragraph.

zelda has en entire world, the kind of elements it depends on for puzzles and story development etc, like music for instance, are innovative and add depth to the story. if you are gonna be summarising stories in a few sentences , you will never get a feal for what they are. youve never played zelda, so how can u say?

and did you SERIOUSLY say that okami had a LACKLUSTER storyline?!?!?!?!?!?!?! OBVIOUSLY u have never even touched the game. it is a seemless blend of nearly every major japanese myth in existance in their classical context. grandeose and non stereotypical as they get. as for CUTESY, yea, okami can be cutesy, but then it is rated teen-matire, having deaths, EXTREMELY adult jokes, near nudity, perversion, foul language and a host of other things which no KID wud be encouraged to follow. it forms a contract to the cutesy characters and graphics. so NO, it is NOT a game for children. you are aweful narrow minded and judgemental.

and how many final fantasy games have you completed????? and how can u judge 9 if you havent even PLAYED it. i dont have to PROVE ANYTHING to you. u can keep loving lok as the greatest game ever, but it isnt to the most of the world, and that is for a good reason.

LOK's plot is CHILDSPLAY compared to xenosaga/shin megami tensei/shadow hearts/silent hill. but more importantly, t never tried to be anything too deep in the first place. you just cant compare some things.

I can make an evaluation of the LOZ story quite easily from the few videos shown to me, all it is about is Link trying to stop Ganon from whatever he is doing in that current story, thats the main plot base. The typical and oh so common "valiant hero vs dark tormentor"

From the description on that wiki, it sounds like it has a very weak story, the whole idea is once again, "hero vs evil spirit" I mean wtf, if thats the best they can do with all those classic Japanese mythologies then the developers must have been hard pressed.

7 and 10 and ive seen the rest from other people on this forum, their all similiar, "hero fights against some kind of evil" FF7 being one of the worst samples of this. Then stop talking if your not going to even try and make a real point. When did I say I thought it was the best game? I said it has the best story, learn to read please.

Some more baseless statements, ill swap it around and claim their all childsplay to the LOK, especially if their all on the level of your over exaggeration of Okami, as I said, your prob one of those Jap RP lovers who cant see the quality in anything else.

leonheartmm
1. unjustified summarising. you can say the same of ico or shadow of colossus but that wont make it any more true

2. ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT. oppinions dont matter unless you have played the game. it isnt a HERO vs EVIL SPIRIT, what the hell are you talking about. its a game to build and change the WORLD. influence people, AND fight dark gods who try to influence the world in their own way by meddling with people's affairs. its extremely ingenuine in its gameplay and graphics as well a its story. using both dark and light humour perfectly. but as i said, it wud be better if you played it. infact, its a game that NO1 shud live without playing. and it isnt an rpg.

ff-7 was QUITE original for its time, its elements, and its PLATFORM, can you find better rpgs on the ps1 at the time. NO, please look at things in context. and play ff-9 before u make conclusions. and that statement applies to many of the greatest games ever, your forgetting that there is more to final fantasy than just that statement.

but your swapping around has no significance since you havent played the other games and thus have no ability to comment on them. i have played both and CAN comment. see how that works? and okami isnt an rpg. neither is MGS.

any1 who says LOK storyline is on the level of xenogears/xenosaga/shin megaten/shadow hearts, is , well, WRONG.

Burning thought
Originally posted by leonheartmm
1. unjustified summarising. you can say the same of ico or shadow of colossus but that wont make it any more true

2. ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT. oppinions don't matter unless you have played the game. it isnt a HERO vs EVIL SPIRIT, what the hell are you talking about. its a game to build and change the WORLD. influence people, AND fight dark gods who try to influence the world in their own way by meddling with people's affairs. its extremely ingenuine in its gameplay and graphics as well a its story. using both dark and light humour perfectly. but as i said, it wud be better if you played it. in fact, its a game that NO1 shud live without playing. and it isnt an rpg.

ff-7 was QUITE original for its time, its elements, and its PLATFORM, can you find better rpgs on the ps1 at the time. NO, please look at things in context. and play ff-9 before u make conclusions. and that statement applies to many of the greatest games ever, your forgetting that there is more to final fantasy than just that statement.

but your swapping around has no significance since you havent played the other games and thus have no ability to comment on them. i have played both and CAN comment. see how that works? and okami isnt an rpg. neither is MGS.

any1 who says LOK storyline is on the level of xenogears/xenosaga/shin megaten/shadow hearts, is , well, WRONG.

1. The hero vs antagonist is one of the oldest stories told and are common, immediately making any story with a similar tale suffer from that fact because obviously it loses some originality.

2. Of course they matter, my opinion comes from reading the basis on the Wikia page, its far more clear than your empty statements and from that wiki article the games story seems fairly simple and don't be a hypocrite, you've never played the Legacy of Kain, in fact i would be surprised if you've even played a single game from its series.

How good a game it was is neither here nor there, were talking about story lines are we not? how old or new a game is has no ties in with that.


You would not know, you've not played the Legacy of Kain, your just sympathising or are bias towards Japanese created games, those you list are from Japanese makers are they not?

leonheartmm
1. name me games which DONT have some form of this phenomenon.

2. ive played every single legcy of kain game, and in all probability before, you even heard of em son. smile dont be a ***** and moan just cause i dont love kain as much as you. and no, they dont matter at all unless youve played the game. and your own sources give these games above 90% ratings.

3. ofcourse it does, when you are talking about revolutionary games, they have to talked about in context. ff-7 was revolutionary, the first street fighter was revolutionary, mario was revolutionary. yet none of these games wud be worth shit if they had come out today.


most games from the past worth anything were from japanese developers. what does that have to do with anything???? theres plenty of good american and european games out there which are MATURE and have solid storylines, tomb raider beeing one of them, the diablo series beings another, america leads in FPS. and fyi, devil may cry is japanese. on the other hand, mario and pacman are american. these are only japanese RPGS which obviously japanes do better than americans most of the time. you were talking about MATURE storylines. and legacy of kain has nuthing in terms of maturity on xenosaga and shin megami tensei.

now please, stop commenting on games you havent played, and stop moaning about games you dont WANT other to have played because you love em like a fanatic.

Burning thought
Originally posted by leonheartmm
1. name me games which DONT have some form of this phenomenon.

2. ive played every single legcy of kain game, and in all probability before, you even heard of em son. smile dont be a ***** and moan just cause i dont love kain as much as you. and no, they dont matter at all unless youve played the game. and your own sources give these games above 90% ratings.

3. ofcourse it does, when you are talking about revolutionary games, they have to talked about in context. ff-7 was revolutionary, the first street fighter was revolutionary, mario was revolutionary. yet none of these games wud be worth shit if they had come out today.


most games from the past worth anything were from japanese developers. what does that have to do with anything???? theres plenty of good american and european games out there which are MATURE and have solid storylines, tomb raider beeing one of them, the diablo series beings another, america leads in FPS. and fyi, devil may cry is japanese. on the other hand, mario and pacman are american. these are only japanese RPGS which obviously japanes do better than americans most of the time. you were talking about MATURE storylines. and legacy of kain has nuthing in terms of maturity on xenosaga and shin megami tensei.

now please, stop commenting on games you havent played, and stop moaning about games you dont WANT other to have played because you love em like a fanatic.

1. Legacy of kain? lol....

2. I dont believe you, youve had many many times in the past where you had no idea of what you were talking about and it was not just me that told you so, it was madmel, me, and several others. Even some of the most basic parts of the story were beyond you.

3. Revolutionary perhaps a game, not as a story

Stop drumming on about your Japanese game fetishes and actually make an argument for gods sake, now your just ranting like a frustrated child, "zomg Japaneze games are much better than American!", youve not played Legacy of Kain, and its likely if you have ever played a single game of the series, you never understood it at all which is prob why your butthurt that its got a good story but you were flummoxed by it.

And your still missing the point, would you compare the maturity in LoZ storyline to Diablo, Silent hill or Xenosaga? ofcourse not, because its fairly immature and has toonforce.

leonheartmm
1. right, and the elder god is.......................... lmao. first game, kain vs his killers, then kain vs magical evil guardians. second game raziel vs evil vampire lord who betrayed him, third game kain vs evil sarafan. fourth game raziel vs evil vampires/guardians then finally self, fifth game, two initially evil character against ALL THE EVIL IN THE WORLD including a final evil GOD, ftw!!!!!

do u think its really that much more redeaming that the main character can be ruthless??? lol u think that= COMPLEXITY? sure, for a kid maybe.

2. i dont care if the most rabid fanboy on kmc doesnt beleive me or not. its the plain truth. ive posted about legacy of kain on kmc before u even showed up. pleae dont take the names of the insignificant few who go along ur crap here. theres a reason most people on kmc ridicule you or flatout dont debate with you.

3. actually, it stood out rather well as a story, unless you want to compare its story to first legacy of kain. lmao, that actually IS from the same time.

why do i have to make an argument. you made an ignorant claim and i rebutted it with an informed claim. the fact that YOU havent played these games isnt my problem, and its not my job to explain their superiority to you by stating every single aspect of them, im not trying to CONVINCE you, im merely saying ur wrong and any1 who HAS played these games will know it on first site. ive played legacy of kain since the beginning, stop bitching simply because your treated like a whore around here by virtually everybody. and sum1 who is riding fictional vampire dick 24-7 and shouting "give me more" REALLY shudnt
even be uttering the words "butthurt". ive already explained how LOK has a superior storyline to DMC, while not being superior but compareable to GOW. doesnt mean crap when your comparing it to xenosaga. oh wait, u havent played that one, so u wudnt know anything about it now wud you...............

id compare its overt maturity to okami. however, id compare its covert maturity with ico and diablo. so theres your answer.

Burning thought
Originally posted by leonheartmm
1. right, and the elder god is.......................... lmao. first game, kain vs his killers, then kain vs magical evil guardians. second game raziel vs evil vampire lord who betrayed him, third game kain vs evil sarafan. fourth game raziel vs evil vampires/guardians then finally self, fifth game, two initially evil character against ALL THE EVIL IN THE WORLD including a final evil GOD, ftw!!!!!

do u think its really that much more redeaming that the main character can be ruthless??? lol u think that= COMPLEXITY? sure, for a kid maybe.

2. i dont care if the most rabid fanboy on kmc doesnt beleive me or not. its the plain truth. ive posted about legacy of kain on kmc before u even showed up. pleae dont take the names of the insignificant few who go along ur crap here. theres a reason most people on kmc ridicule you or flatout dont debate with you.

3. actually, it stood out rather well as a story, unless you want to compare its story to first legacy of kain. lmao, that actually IS from the same time.

why do i have to make an argument. you made an ignorant claim and i rebutted it with an informed claim. the fact that YOU havent played these games isnt my problem, and its not my job to explain their superiority to you by stating every single aspect of them, im not trying to CONVINCE you, im merely saying ur wrong and any1 who HAS played these games will know it on first site. ive played legacy of kain since the beginning, stop bitching simply because your treated like a whore around here by virtually everybody. and sum1 who is riding fictional vampire dick 24-7 and shouting "give me more" REALLY shudnt
even be uttering the words "butthurt". ive already explained how LOK has a superior storyline to DMC, while not being superior but compareable to GOW. doesnt mean crap when your comparing it to xenosaga. oh wait, u havent played that one, so u wudnt know anything about it now wud you...............

id compare its overt maturity to okami. however, id compare its covert maturity with ico and diablo. so theres your answer.

1. Just a parasite, not evil at all....

You really have no idea about the LOK do you, I rest my case, you've never played any of them lol....your just puting "evil" in front of everything Kain or Raziel may be against, rather pathetic considering half of the beings are not evil at all, hell many who play the game sympathise with the Hyldan race and see them as the right, unlike most other lesser story lines (see Okami, Xenosaga, FF, LOZ) the legacy of Kain has an extremely adult and intellectual view on the storyline, this allows the players to decide themselves and the characters are presented strongly enough for their views to be evaluated by the players, thus another reason why the dynamic characters are far superior to aforementioned ideas because they convey a view that the player themselves can judge without having whats right and wrong tossed at them like they are young children, I can see how that may appeal to you but it does not make an advanced or unique story.

2. Then if you dont care go away, nobody else cares what you think either, and most people? theres no most at all, the only section I exist is this one tiny piece, your invisible imaginary buddies that apparently back you up dont exist and the only real people who disagree with me are those that cannot debate with me or have favoured characters that I debate with them against, they can never actually defeat my arguments.

3. The first legacy of Kain's story was greater than FF7 by far although unlike FF, the legacy of Kain series works as a whole. But you would not understand that having not played the games.


Damn I must have hit a nerve, its no wonder you enjoy LOZ, Okami, its maturity level is certainly quite far above yours, your like a crying infant whos pacifier has fallen from the pram. And Xenosaga, is that not the one with the queer looking robot chick? all about a boring bunch of corporations after some artifacts power, yes....massively unique....never been done before in the slightest lol...

SuperLuigi
im going to have to play the first legacy of kain after a bold statement like that

Burning thought
I would claim most story lines are greater than FF7, its weak sauce compared to stories in many games imo, perhaps its just not my taste but its one of those "evil company does X, company creation hates company so it does B etc etc" just with a few slight differences, the story itself is quite basic and lackluster and its main stars are a queer looking shemale with a long sword who despite apparent powers being so great gets defeated by the games other great star, a saddened emo who constantly chases after the former.

SuperLuigi
same can be said about kain who is defeat by raziel..

Burning thought
not really, because Kain does not want to fight or even harm Raziel, he wants to use him, wheras Cloud is always nothing more than Sephiroths enemy, Sephiroth never has any master plan behind Cloud or any use for him, merely taunts him, which is always his downfall.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Burning thought
there are likely many other times than that So you don't actually know? Yet you claim it is full of it?

I didn't think your debating could get any worse BT.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Burning thought
Sephiroth never has any master plan behind Cloud or any use for him You seem pretty sure about this considering you never played the game.

And you're wrong by the way.

Burning thought
Originally posted by NemeBro
So you don't actually know? Yet you claim it is full of it?

I didn't think your debating could get any worse BT.

Well when a game whos nature seems to be bent towards actions such as that Goron its more likely than not that I am correct. Why would there only be one toon force act? not that I need another....

Dont even mention bad debating cretin, you have no grounds of debating nor do you have any real arguments in here, I am almost tired of owning you, want me to own you again now? All I have to do is gather a few things from this thread.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You seem pretty sure about this considering you never played the game.

And you're wrong by the way.

Explain? Sephiroth has no use for Cloud. Cloud is merely an ego trip for Sephiroth, problem is Sephiroths ego is stronger than he is.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Burning thought
Well when a game whos nature seems to be bent towards actions such as that Goron its more likely than not that I am correct. Why would there only be one toon force act? not that I need another....

Dont even mention bad debating cretin, you have no grounds of debating nor do you have any real arguments in here, I am almost tired of owning you, want me to own you again now? All I have to do is gather a few things from this thread.



Explain? Sephiroth has no use for Cloud. Cloud is merely an ego trip for Sephiroth, problem is Sephiroths ego is stronger than he is. 1. That is the sole Toonforce act in Zelda. And yes you do. Having one act of Toonforce which did not even directly involve Link does not discredit all of Link's feats you see as inconsistant. And the lifting of the granite is not inconsistant, he gained the ability to do it like five minutes before fighting Ganondorf.

You can no more own me than you could your jailbait cousin.

2. And you have proof for this claim?

Burning thought
Originally posted by NemeBro
1. That is the sole Toonforce act in Zelda. And yes you do. Having one act of Toonforce which did not even directly involve Link does not discredit all of Link's feats you see as inconsistant. And the lifting of the granite is not inconsistant, he gained the ability to do it like five minutes before fighting Ganondorf.

You can no more own me than you could your jailbait cousin.

2. And you have proof for this claim?

1. I dont know that, and considering ive not played LOZ I will not be convinced by you saying so. Ofcourse it discredits them, it discredits them because first and foremost Link is pretty much human, so the excistence of toonforce in the game points out the fact that feats beyond his canon structure and limit especially in gameplay are automatically toonforce, the granite thing was incosistent with what link is, having 1000+ ton strength is not realistic considering he would not need a sword at all.

I could own you like your dad owned your mother with his heavy fists wink , and ill do it now:

Originally posted by NemeBro

Although thinking about it, without his immunity, God Kratos may very well defeat him.

Originally posted by NemeBro
By turning him into a harmless, bodiless soul.

Or just sealing him in another dimension.

Your pick.

This just shows your lack of precision when you blunder into a thread, as well as your huge bias and how most of your claims are likely thus, just a lot of frequent blabberings. I mean jesus on the same page, the very first page you claim Ganon gets to Kiljaeden, then you claim Kratos (wtf, how?) defeats ganon despite him apprently being able to turn Sephiroth into a bodiless soul or sealing him away, I mean its obvious we all know you like Kratos but your bias makes you blind which is why you fail in most threads.

2. I did not make a claim, I made a statement, There is no indication in the game where Sephiroth claims he will use Cloud as part of his master plans the way Kain uses Raziel. The burdon of proof is to provide that Cloud is indeed used.

SuperLuigi
sephiroth used cloud to get the huge materia in disc 2. in fact he takes control of cloud several times to keep the heroes at bay.

Burning thought
The black materia? thats not part of a master plan though, not like Kain, Kain is using Raziel to change his destiny throughout the entire game. The black materia itself was important but Clouds use was a minor one, you cannot claim Clouds use there as Sephiroths reason for holding back in all the battles he had, including in AC can you?

SuperLuigi
huge materia has a different purpose to summon meteor, i think, havent played the game in years. but i know its called huge materia. summoning meteor was the master plan.

Burning thought
yes thats the black materia

SuperLuigi
huge materia come in different colors red blue yellow green

Burning thought
But the one Sephiroth uses Cloud to gain is the Black one, for meteor casting.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Burning thought
1. I dont know that, and considering ive not played LOZ I will not be convinced by you saying so. Ofcourse it discredits them, it discredits them because first and foremost Link is pretty much human, so the excistence of toonforce in the game points out the fact that feats beyond his canon structure and limit especially in gameplay are automatically toonforce, the granite thing was incosistent with what link is, having 1000+ ton strength is not realistic considering he would not need a sword at all.

I could own you like your dad owned your mother with his heavy fists wink , and ill do it now:





This just shows your lack of precision when you blunder into a thread, as well as your huge bias and how most of your claims are likely thus, just a lot of frequent blabberings. I mean jesus on the same page, the very first page you claim Ganon gets to Kiljaeden, then you claim Kratos (wtf, how?) defeats ganon despite him apprently being able to turn Sephiroth into a bodiless soul or sealing him away, I mean its obvious we all know you like Kratos but your bias makes you blind which is why you fail in most threads.

2. I did not make a claim, I made a statement, There is no indication in the game where Sephiroth claims he will use Cloud as part of his master plans the way Kain uses Raziel. The burdon of proof is to provide that Cloud is indeed used. 1. Link being human means what? And he is not human, he is Hylian, a fictional race. Krillin from DBZ is human...And near the start of DBZ he could bust at least a mountain with ease. So being "human" means nothing. He was able to lift the granite with an item he got five minutes before the final fight in the game. It was like his final great powerup. He did not have the Golden Gauntlets which allowed him to do that before fighting Ganon. The Golden Gauntlets were implemented in the game so you could do that, yet it is toonforce?

Indeed? How are those therapy classes for your suicidal tendencies going?

1. Kratos has soul resistance as of GoW3 I believe. Beating Hades and shit. I admit I did not think of sealing him away, yeah, if that would work on Kratos it is a win(but I am not so sure he could seal a being so large away).

2. You claimed Sephiroth has no plans for Cloud.

But fine, whatever.

In FFVII, Sephiroth uses and succeeds in his plan of using Cloud to get the Black Materia. It is through controlling Cloud that he receives it.

That is about the only time he has done something like this however.

SuperLuigi
ok ok but still the category is huge materia. and that was part of sephiroth's master plan so... sephiroth used cloud for his master plan.

leonheartmm
Originally posted by Burning thought
1. Just a parasite, not evil at all....

You really have no idea about the LOK do you, I rest my case, you've never played any of them lol....your just puting "evil" in front of everything Kain or Raziel may be against, rather pathetic considering half of the beings are not evil at all, hell many who play the game sympathise with the Hyldan race and see them as the right, unlike most other lesser story lines (see Okami, Xenosaga, FF, LOZ) the legacy of Kain has an extremely adult and intellectual view on the storyline, this allows the players to decide themselves and the characters are presented strongly enough for their views to be evaluated by the players, thus another reason why the dynamic characters are far superior to aforementioned ideas because they convey a view that the player themselves can judge without having whats right and wrong tossed at them like they are young children, I can see how that may appeal to you but it does not make an advanced or unique story.

2. Then if you dont care go away, nobody else cares what you think either, and most people? theres no most at all, the only section I exist is this one tiny piece, your invisible imaginary buddies that apparently back you up dont exist and the only real people who disagree with me are those that cannot debate with me or have favoured characters that I debate with them against, they can never actually defeat my arguments.

3. The first legacy of Kain's story was greater than FF7 by far although unlike FF, the legacy of Kain series works as a whole. But you would not understand that having not played the games.


Damn I must have hit a nerve, its no wonder you enjoy LOZ, Okami, its maturity level is certainly quite far above yours, your like a crying infant whos pacifier has fallen from the pram. And Xenosaga, is that not the one with the queer looking robot chick? all about a boring bunch of corporations after some artifacts power, yes....massively unique....never been done before in the slightest lol...


1. parasites are evil to their victims, and the elder god never felt sorry for his place in the world. people can also sympathise, and to a MUCH greater extent with necron/udo/zeus. doesnt change the fact that GOOD vs EVIL formula is just as present in legacy of kain as any other game

no, it seems like i know the story better than you do, and its been proven over the time uve been here. im not PUTTING evil against aything, the generic formula of good vs evil is present in many of the LOK games, thats a fact that raziel will more than agree with. sympathising isnt mutually exclusive with evil, idiot. okami and xenosaga's storylines are better than legacy of kain by atleast a factor of 2. dont BULLSHIT about thins uve never played because your intellectual capacity is such that you consider games like LOK "deep", your a kid, i doubt youve had much experience with mature fiction, inside or outside video games.

2. you dont care, and thats only because you get raped everytime you enter into a debate and continue on to fill your post with logical and linguistic fallacies meant to keep the conversation going no matter what. and let me rephrase, ALL those barring a handfull who have encountered you on kmc, think you are the most ridiculous fanboy they have ever seen, who has no idea how to have a real debate. when things get hot, you spam reports to try and get the other person banned. thats all you are, and the fact that your entire life exists to bullshit about a fictional character that u ride in ur dreams, in this tiny corner of one forum on the internet is quite pathetic. newsflash, every1 can debate better than you, including the idiots here. what you do isnt DEBATING, BT and debating shudnt be used in the same sentence. {for INSTANCE, no idiot wud debate agains the STORYLINE of video games that he or she hanst played, but lo and behold, here you are}.

3. in ur dreams. not to say that it was greatness embodied, it was just superior to first LOK in every way. and STOP moaning, after being raped. ive played it, others have played it, you FAIL.

lmao, you havent played okami u bumbling fool. nor xenosaga. ur ignorance is proof of that. and YEAH thats ALL xenosaga is, it isnt really a melting pot of freudian/jungian/neitczhian psychology mixes with gnostic and judeo christian mythology, seemlessly assimilated into hawkingian physics and the space opera genre pioneered by kubrik. no no no , it isnt about the death of god and our place in the universe or the collective unconcious and people's will to power, it isnt REALLY about the maiden of mary and the gnostic concepts of jesus and gnosification. no no no, its just a bunch of queer robot chicks and space corporations fighting as claimed by the resident idiot of kmc's video game corner who claims that he has never played the game in the first place,
{and im sure you dont understand most of those references seeing that your limit of understanding DEEP concepts ends on LOK. so i dont begrudge you ur ignorance}

really, could you BE more of a joke BT?

ScreamPaste
K. So how much does Kain weigh? I have some math to do.

MooCowofJustice
Wow...Burning Thought is a douche...

ScreamPaste
Here's my answer to the debate. Ganon throws Kain into space, OR; directly at the ground. Here's a snippet of basic math using less then the strength of Link, who is weaker than Ganon.

http://www.ajdesigner.com/phpenergykenetic/kenetic_energy_equation_velocity.png

Conversions:
K = 2551457081.25 joule = 2551457081.25 joule
m = 200 pound = 90.71847399995 kilogram

v = 7500.0000000021 meter/second

Tadah; Kain explodes into lollersauce.

SuperLuigi
i doubt kain weighs that much he's anorexic

Burning thought
Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Link being human means what? And he is not human, he is Hylian, a fictional race. Krillin from DBZ is human...And near the start of DBZ he could bust at least a mountain with ease. So being "human" means nothing. He was able to lift the granite with an item he got five minutes before the final fight in the game. It was like his final great powerup. He did not have the Golden Gauntlets which allowed him to do that before fighting Ganon. The Golden Gauntlets were implemented in the game so you could do that, yet it is toonforce?

Indeed? How are those therapy classes for your suicidal tendencies going?

1. Kratos has soul resistance as of GoW3 I believe. Beating Hades and shit. I admit I did not think of sealing him away, yeah, if that would work on Kratos it is a win(but I am not so sure he could seal a being so large away).

2. You claimed Sephiroth has no plans for Cloud.

But fine, whatever.

In FFVII, Sephiroth uses and succeeds in his plan of using Cloud to get the Black Materia. It is through controlling Cloud that he receives it.

That is about the only time he has done something like this however.

1. It means everything. humans are not attributed any incredible attributes and from reading their LOZ wiki articles, Link is often refered to as human, in fact humans succeed over the Hylians in the storyline or so it says, fact is, by actual canon of the characters and their limits, their nothing more than actual humans, considering toonforce exists in the game, this further solidifies the fact that any of links major feats, certainly those that are not empowered by a sort of item or power are merely toonforce/game play fun. The golden gauntlets are inconsistent with the rest of the game after that, tossing that granite was the only impressive thing ive seen from them, other than that, he has shown me that his strength cannot be that great considering the physics of the world.

1. So you assume and speculate on soul resistances.....just because hes going to fight Hades in GOW 3...thats a mighty basis....

So size is important on what Ganon can seal? I like how this is not mentioned before.

2. I claimed that Sephiroth has no plans when fighting Cloud, the fact he uses Cloud in Disc 2 has no baring on my point and argument which was unlike Kain, Sephiroth has no reason to let Cloud live in AC or in their major battles.



Originally posted by leonheartmm
1. parasites are evil to their victims, and the elder god never felt sorry for his place in the world. people can also sympathise, and to a MUCH greater extent with necron/udo/zeus. doesnt change the fact that GOOD vs EVIL formula is just as present in legacy of kain as any other game

no, it seems like i know the story better than you do, and its been proven over the time uve been here. im not PUTTING evil against aything, the generic formula of good vs evil is present in many of the LOK games, thats a fact that raziel will more than agree with. sympathising isnt mutually exclusive with evil, idiot. okami and xenosaga's story lines are better than legacy of kain by atleast a factor of 2. dont BULLSHIT about thins uve never played because your intellectual capacity is such that you consider games like LOK "deep", your a kid, i doubt youve had much experience with mature fiction, inside or outside video games.

2. you dont care, and thats only because you get raped everytime you enter into a debate and continue on to fill your post with logical and linguistic fallacies meant to keep the conversation going no matter what. and let me rephrase, ALL those barring a handfull who have encountered you on kmc, think you are the most ridiculous fanboy they have ever seen, who has no idea how to have a real debate. when things get hot, you spam reports to try and get the other person banned. thats all you are, and the fact that your entire life exists to bullshit about a fictional character that u ride in ur dreams, in this tiny corner of one forum on the internet is quite pathetic. newsflash, every1 can debate better than you, including the idiots here. what you do isnt DEBATING, BT and debating shudnt be used in the same sentence. {for INSTANCE, no idiot wud debate agains the STORYLINE of video games that he or she hanst played, but lo and behold, here you are}.

3. in ur dreams. not to say that it was greatness embodied, it was just superior to first LOK in every way. and STOP moaning, after being raped. ive played it, others have played it, you FAIL.

lmao, you havent played okami u bumbling fool. nor xenosaga. ur ignorance is proof of that. and YEAH thats ALL xenosaga is, it isnt really a melting pot of freudian/jungian/neitczhian psychology mixes with gnostic and judeo christian mythology, seemlessly assimilated into hawkingian physics and the space opera genre pioneered by kubrik. no no no , it isnt about the death of god and our place in the universe or the collective unconcious and people's will to power, it isnt REALLY about the maiden of mary and the gnostic concepts of jesus and gnosification. no no no, its just a bunch of queer robot chicks and space corporations fighting as claimed by the resident idiot of kmc's video game corner who claims that he has never played the game in the first place,
{and im sure you dont understand most of those references seeing that your limit of understanding DEEP concepts ends on LOK. so i dont begrudge you ur ignorance}

really, could you BE more of a joke BT?

Dont be daft, now your just tossing "evil" in front of anything in LOK again and good job at ignoring my point, you did not every address it, your simply sitting there claiming again without even reference.

No youve shown many times you have no idea about LOK, stop sniveling. I have read plenty on both story lines, their background and ideals are fairly basic although I admit, Xenosaga is the better of the two and perhaps close to LOK standard.

2. Some more ranting and sniveling, grow up kid, and half of this paragraph is simply slight rephrasing of what I have said to you before, go and invent your own comebacks if you want to try and insult me. I like to report trolls such as you, otherwise we would have an overflow of whining children such as yourself.

3. "zomg u failz!" what a child lol, and your just making statements again, theres not even a constructive opinion.

Your just chucking in content that its touched upon, the main storyline is still mostly about corporations after this Ark thing, the fact theres a few references chucked in there for good measure means little, theres similar things in all gaming, DMC has mythological references yet its still a fairly bland and common story, not to say its boring but its not unique, LOK has one of the most popular myths of all, vampires.

I could be you smile

There could not have been a better come back

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Here's my answer to the debate. Ganon throws Kain into space, OR; directly at the ground. Here's a snippet of basic math using less then the strength of Link, who is weaker than Ganon.

http://www.ajdesigner.com/phpenergykenetic/kenetic_energy_equation_velocity.png

Conversions:
K = 2551457081.25 joule = 2551457081.25 joule
m = 200 pound = 90.71847399995 kilogram

v = 7500.0000000021 meter/second

Tadah; Kain explodes into lollersauce.

Yes and using my own Balance guardian magic regulation+access to weather, time, souls, light and energy=Kain causes the big bang and blasts the LOZ universe and Ganon into another dimension, see wat i dids there?

Although on a more serious note, its not like Ganon would touch kain anyway, one teleport and he is out of range of Ganon even touching him, especially if he mists.

XanatosForever
One thing I'd like to point out. BT, earlier in the thread you said something along the lines of Kain being more or less untouchable in mist form, even surviving lava...see, the problem with that is that...well, if he in mist form, it means its some type of liquid (I'm assuming it's a blood mist kinda thing). Ganon might not be able to physically grab Kain in the form, but force him to somehow mist into lava, and he'll end up evaporating.
no expression

Burning thought
Mist is vapour, you cant evapourate something already in vapour form, if you do your simply making more vapour which I pointed out in the starkiller thread would simply make it more of a difficulty to fight Kain considering you would not know which direction he is coming from, and which part of the mist is actually him. And how could you force Kain to mist into lava anyway? furthermore I missed the fact theres lava in this match for Ganon to make use of, is there lava? I dont remember OP saying so.

ArtificialGlory
There is no lava, unless Ganondorf can create it or is powerful enough to draw it from the Earth's crust.

MooCowofJustice
Kain obviously would have to be able to retain control of himself in his mist form, so how far apart can the particles be before his control on them fades? Right now, Ganon could exhale and possibly take Kain's head off.

Burning thought
not really, and his has more control over them than a gust of wind lol....right now Ganon would have to make sure Kains fragments are scattered but this is a stupid conversation, Kain can go in and out of mist in a blink, its not like Kain is going to spend all his time in mist form.

He can split himself apart to move through bars and cracks and things, so his mist can be seperated. Its going to be no good trying to hit Kain.

MooCowofJustice
Well, I've still got to read the thread at some point, but right now there's still a number of things Ganon can do to Kain. Possession, inter-dimensional sealing, other stuff...

I'm sure I could still make the wind thing work, but I've got to do a bit of looking into the ways that Ganon might go about doing it.

ScreamPaste
Mist is made up of water droplets, hence clouds, FYI, BT.

Ganon teleports next to Kain, and grabs and throws him to the ground in one move, it's outside Kain's reaction time and it'd result in a very large crator filled with a smear of charred vampire shmutz.

If Kain mists, Ganon strikes him with lightning, evaporating him.

Kain literally has no chance.

Edit; your claim of Kain recreating the big bang was lol-worthy.

Burning thought
Bullshit, Ganon is not that fast, its not outside of Kains reaction time at all lol, and only through your fanfiction is Ganon of any high amount of strength.

This is what happens, Kain uses infnite magic through repel shield, becomes invincible, then uses the power of dimension to travel to Hyrule and causes the big bang through energy.

Kain misting would make him immune to Ganon, all he can do is try and make more vapour by electrocuting it.

kain simply has to do any number of moves, blood shower, soul destruction, time aura+teleport, Ganon is screwed.

ScreamPaste
You're wrong, and also a troll. Ganon can block light arrows at point blank, with his back to the person firing them. Disintegrate stone or living beings with single strikes, is stronger than even Link with the golden gauntlets by canon, survive castle busting explosions centered on himself without a scratch, what can Kain possibly hope to achieve other than to run away?

Lol, and you accused me of fanfiction.

You do understand what would happen when Ganon accelerated the atomic speed of those water droplets? Kain'd be done for, thoroughly exploded. More fanfiction, Kain'll never be immune to Ganon.

Lol, blood shower won't work, soul destruction is outclassed, and won't work, time aura involves getting close to Ganon, suicide, Ganon wins. Kain doesn't even belong in this thread.

Burning thought
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You're wrong, and also a troll. Ganon can block light arrows at point blank, with his back to the person firing them. Disintegrate stone or living beings with single strikes, is stronger than even Link with the golden gauntlets by canon, survive castle busting explosions centered on himself without a scratch, what can Kain possibly hope to achieve other than to run away?

Lol, and you accused me of fanfiction.

You do understand what would happen when Ganon accelerated the atomic speed of those water droplets? Kain'd be done for, thoroughly exploded. More fanfiction, Kain'll never be immune to Ganon.

Lol, blood shower won't work, soul destruction is outclassed, and won't work, time aura involves getting close to Ganon, suicide, Ganon wins. Kain doesn't even belong in this thread.

No not really, so? blocking a few arrows lol....thats reaction speed for one, and second Ive not seen these light arrows. Show me disintegrating stone and he did it to a sage who has an unkown death anyway, he is not made of flesh or blood. What canon states he is stronger than link with the gauntlets? not that that is impressive, the gauntlets are fairly featless. And your just repeating points ive already shattered, Ganon was never physical during the attack and we do not even know if he was hit by it.

Yes I did, you invented the figuires, guessed the type of granite and forgot it was a game with Toonforce elements. You also forgot incosistency, the gauntlets do not do anything else more impressive, infact when Ganon is being slashed he should be launched miles across the landscape if Link was as strong as you invented.

lol coz Ganon is invincibles! Ganon is pathetic in comparison to Kain, its not even a matchup tbh.

None of them are outclassed and the Time aura would take a single teleportation, instantly Kain is next to Ganon who is now moving like hes crawling through thick treacle....hes doomed.

Obsidian Fury
Originally posted by Burning thought
Ganon is pathetic in comparison to Kain, its not even a matchup tbh

Feats and accomplishments disagrees, but hey, who needs them?

ScreamPaste
Lol, BT thinks he shattered any of my points? He's called the granite, and it's stated to be granite, toonforce, and expected an N64 game to have realistic physics.

Fact 1. It is granite. Nintendo said so.

Fact 2. My numbers, which I apparently invented, are rounded down to the LOWEST POSSIBLE variable, and do not even incorporate the entire volume of the stone lifted. If you think my numbers are wrong, the only possibility is that the stone is infact heavier.

Fact 3. He throws this stone over his shoulder relatively casually, in a very badass looking cinematic with panning cameras to show the entire girth of the massive stone pillar. Toonforce? Lol. OoT Is a serious game, sir.

Fact 4. Ganon is still more physicly powerful than Link.

Fact 5. I took my already ridiculously undercut numbers, and undercut them further, then applied them to Ganon, and he's still strong enough to reduce Kain to paste.

Hell, Ganon picks up a pebble and throws it at Kain, it's too fast for Kain to react, Kain explodes and dies.

Ever seen what happens when a stone the size of a baseball collides with a man at speeds comparable to a satellite in orbit?

Ganon TK's Kain, and throws him to the ground where he splatters.

LLLLLink
Heh, looks like I dont even need to comment on this one. Ganon shit stomps Kain. Nice work, ScreamPaste.

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by LLLLLink
Heh, looks like I dont even need to comment on this one. Ganon shit stomps Kain. Nice work, ScreamPaste.

Kain's not a tenth the character he's made out to be.

LLLLLink
Agreed.

Burning thought
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Lol, BT thinks he shattered any of my points? He's called the granite, and it's stated to be granite, toonforce, and expected an N64 game to have realistic physics.

Fact 1. It is granite. Nintendo said so.

Fact 2. My numbers, which I apparently invented, are rounded down to the LOWEST POSSIBLE variable, and do not even incorporate the entire volume of the stone lifted. If you think my numbers are wrong, the only possibility is that the stone is infact heavier.

Fact 3. He throws this stone over his shoulder relatively casually, in a very badass looking cinematic with panning cameras to show the entire girth of the massive stone pillar. Toonforce? Lol. OoT Is a serious game, sir.

Fact 4. Ganon is still more physicly powerful than Link.

Fact 5. I took my already ridiculously undercut numbers, and undercut them further, then applied them to Ganon, and he's still strong enough to reduce Kain to paste.

Hell, Ganon picks up a pebble and throws it at Kain, it's too fast for Kain to react, Kain explodes and dies.

Ever seen what happens when a stone the size of a baseball collides with a man at speeds comparable to a satellite in orbit?

Ganon TK's Kain, and throws him to the ground where he splatters.

Fact 1: yes but they did not say which type, you guessed it to be black granite based on its colour, for all you know, it could be a fictional type.

Fact 2: You invented the numbers because you cannot possibly know the weight of the stone, density of the stone etc

Fact 3: Toonforce excists in the legend of Zelda, that much is the only fact here, that block could easily either be A: toonforce or B: an inconsistency C: low grade nintendo graphics that could not create a better animation or did not care for one.

Fact 4: Ganon is physically more powerful than the real link, a little guy whos strength is not far beyond human.

Fact 5: You took your numbers, is where you should stop and reconsider your argument.

Kain TK's Ganon and throws him into the ground, where he splatters.

ScreamPaste
Kain's TK isn't strong enough.

P.S. I mathed it as the lightest form of granite that exists.

P.P.S. The type of matter determines it's density.

P.P.P.S. Anything that's not my numbers is bigger.

Burning thought
Neither is Ganons in the real LOZ, in your fanfiction perhaps

That exists in the real world?

Not really, their your numbers, until the developers point out that Link has such strength you are sunk.

ScreamPaste
Lol, Ganon's TK is FAR beyond Kain's, and Kain's not strong enoguh to actually throw Ganon, either. This'd be like spiderman trying to throw world war hulk. no expression

Developers designed the cutscene, not me.

Burning thought
According to what? your assumption that he uses TK to hold up his castle?

They also designed Gorons bouncing up and down in lava, e.g. Toonforce, they also designed the fact Ganon is not flung about or even moved while being slashed by 1000+ tons of force.

Developers claimed kains infinite magic power, not me smile

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Burning thought
According to what? your assumption that he uses TK to hold up his castle?

They also designed Gorons bouncing up and down in lava, e.g. Toonforce, they also designed the fact Ganon is not flung about or even moved while being slashed by 1000+ tons of force.

Developers claimed kains infinite magic power, not me smile

I think I saw a video on YouTube of Link fighting Ganon in which Ganon gets flung a considerable distance when Link slashes him. Not like that means that he's actually 1000 tonner. That granite statue/pillar/whatever could have been hollow for all we know.

MooCowofJustice
This is kind of lolworthy. So far it's proposed that when game developers called their stone Granite they sought out to make up a fictional type of granite that they specifically let have a design and color similar to the black granite of the real world and that the floating castle that they put into OoT is not affected by gravity.

I know that I like to make up objects and use names similar to ones in the real world. What the hell's the matter with you Shin. >.<

Burning thought
I am talking mainly about the video where Link is fighting Ganon while wearing the golden gauntlets or w/e their called, he slashes and smashes Ganon many times and Ganon is unmoved, nor even bothered hardly, considering this Ganon should physically be launched across the ground. Although I would be intrieged to see this video of Link tossing Ganon around.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Burning thought
I am talking mainly about the video where Link is fighting Ganon while wearing the golden gauntlets or w/e their called, he slashes and smashes Ganon many times and Ganon is unmoved, nor even bothered hardly, considering this Ganon should physically be launched across the ground. Although I would be intrieged to see this video of Link tossing Ganon around.

I'll try to find. One moment.

EDIT:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zuWhvLY8tU&feature=related

Somewhere around 0:43, but I believe it also happens a few more times after that. Not like he gets flung throughout the whole landscape, but still something.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by Burning thought
I am talking mainly about the video where Link is fighting Ganon while wearing the golden gauntlets or w/e their called, he slashes and smashes Ganon many times and Ganon is unmoved, nor even bothered hardly, considering this Ganon should physically be launched across the ground. Although I would be intrieged to see this video of Link tossing Ganon around.
you want a 30 MB N64 game to portray real physics, and yet claim feats from the same era to be a result of bad graphics? Contradict yourself more.

XanatosForever
Originally posted by Burning thought
Mist is vapour, you cant evapourate something already in vapour form, if you do your simply making more vapour which I pointed out in the starkiller thread would simply make it more of a difficulty to fight Kain considering you would not know which direction he is coming from, and which part of the mist is actually him. And how could you force Kain to mist into lava anyway? furthermore I missed the fact theres lava in this match for Ganon to make use of, is there lava? I dont remember OP saying so.

I'm not saying there is, but I'm pointing out an inconsistency in your argument. Mist is not vapor or gas, Mist is a fine liquid state, but still clearly liquid. After being evaporated, then mist would be gas, but not before.

As an example, fog is a type of mist. It can be heavy or it can be light, but it's still predominantly liquid, which gets evaporated as the sun warms the liquid.

Burning thought
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
you want a 30 MB N64 game to portray real physics, and yet claim feats from the same era to be a result of bad graphics? Contradict yourself more.

How did i contradict myself? I want the game to show real physics, obvioulsy it does not, same with the tossing of the stone, its not your fault or anyone elses, but that fact remains. The game has no baring on physics, its just for fun, according to canon Link is pretty much a human, a lot would have to be proved before it can ever be said he is close to even 100 tons, especially consdiering the series has toonforce moments as well.

I like how you sit there claiming about how its a small game on 30MB yet you dont see how this can reflect on the fact they could not have thought up or did not want to fill the game in with a better and more realistic way of link moving teh stone? in comes toon force to save them...ofcourse Toonforce is not taken into account in such battles of realism, so by Canon, Link is not actually that strong.

ScreamPaste
You're a fool. They can't run a physics engine during gameplay on a 30MB cartridge.
They CAN have badass cinematics for throwing a stone though, and they do, and it's canon, your claim or Toonforce might as well be a concession, because you can't actually argue the point at all. Infact, I choose to take it as such.

Thank you for so graciously accepting defeat.

LLLLLink
Pawned.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
I'll try to find. One moment.

EDIT:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zuWhvLY8tU&feature=related

Somewhere around 0:43, but I believe it also happens a few more times after that. Not like he gets flung throughout the whole landscape, but still something.

In case someone missed my edit.

LLLLLink
Good stuff.

Burning thought
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You're a fool. They can't run a physics engine during gameplay on a 30MB cartridge.
They CAN have badass cinematics for throwing a stone though, and they do, and it's canon, your claim or Toonforce might as well be a concession, because you can't actually argue the point at all. Infact, I choose to take it as such.

Thank you for so graciously accepting defeat.

No not really, your a fool, simply because the game cannot show physics is neither here nor there, or my interest, the developers did not want to fill up the game with long events realistic to link or his canon so they had him just toss it to get on with the game, so the stone of unkown weight, density etc and toonforce excists so your in denile.

You can take it for what you like, your hope for my concession will be my notification that you are defeated and will take it as a concession of your arguments smile

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Pawned.

Yes Screampaste was wasnt he

Originally posted by XanatosForever
I'm not saying there is, but I'm pointing out an inconsistency in your argument. Mist is not vapor or gas, Mist is a fine liquid state, but still clearly liquid. After being evaporated, then mist would be gas, but not before.

As an example, fog is a type of mist. It can be heavy or it can be light, but it's still predominantly liquid, which gets evaporated as the sun warms the liquid.

It is still vapour, not completly gas but has water droplets, still fairly irrelvent tbh since Ganon cannot create heat enough to disipate Kain and if he did it would be irrelvent more so because Kain does not stay in this form for longer than a blink of the eye as he dodges or escapes a certain danger.

ScreamPaste
Lightning strikes>Kain. </win>

If Lightning can create glass out of sand, it can disperse Kain.

LLLLLink
Seriously, BT, If you dont like the canon, take it up with Miyamoto.
Otherwise, it stands.

XanatosForever
Possibly, though I think it's more just low density liquid, which is what allows it to remain airborne. The fact that he needs to retain a semi-solid state could mean something, though. If he were to be evaporated in mist form, would he be able to keep the gas that is himself from being dispersed too far for him to reform?

Burning thought
lol, Ganon could never cast lightning before Kain destroys him with any number of his spells.

Fight starts, Kain teleports next to Ganon, Time aura slows Ganon to crawl, Kain uses incapacitate. Then uses Ganon as an ugly pillar decoration.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Seriously, BT, If you dont like the canon, take it up with Miyamoto.
Otherwise, it stands.

Canon? well if you dont like Canon Kain causes the big bang. Take it up with Silicon knights.

ScreamPaste
If the mist is evaporated, Kain is evporated, Xan.

Edit: Lol. BT. Kain has no chance, before Kain can do any of that, and none of it would work, btw, he'd be trapped in TK and thrown to the earth at meteoric speed.

Burning thought
Originally posted by XanatosForever
Possibly, though I think it's more just low density liquid, which is what allows it to remain airborne. The fact that he needs to retain a semi-solid state could mean something, though. If he were to be evaporated in mist form, would he be able to keep the gas that is himself from being dispersed too far for him to reform?

Depends on its dispersion, if he was massively dispersed then I could not say that he would be able to reform, technically Kain is just a soul, so logically he could reform, Kain breaks up his form to get through cracks and gates, but hes not been blasted or condensed at any large period. Although tbh, its unlikely that he can be, because he has control over his form constantly and may not let it be knocked apart, otherwise he would have blown away with the wind while fighting amongst the Sarafan in the outdoor castle.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
If the mist is evaporated, Kain is evporated, Xan.

Edit: Lol. BT. Kain has no chance, before Kain can do any of that, and none of it would work, btw, he'd be trapped in TK and thrown to the earth at meteoric speed.

Bullshit nonsense, Ganon is not that quick and most of his powers are not either, And being in TK has no baring on teleportation, Kains teleportation is quicker than Ganons TK, that much I can assure.

LLLLLink
C'mon, you dont seriously think Kain can do ANYTHING to Ganondorf, do you? Kain is just a lowly pissant in his presence. Ganondorf could merely touch Kain and he could disentigrate his body, just like in TP.

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