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No magic. No armor. Nonething special. Just a plain out sword-fight. Link has his most powerful sword and Kratos has The Blade of Olympus.

this isnt really a sword fight. but kratos has the edge because of range. give kratos the blade of olympus.

He does have The BoO.

lmao misread link wins then because he is a true swordsman

It's okay. How fast is he using his sword?

is this god kratos? and depends which link

No. Best Link.

twilight princess link then uses mortal draw and kills the mortal kratos.

This is just a sword-fight (nonething else), so none of that "extra" crap.

awww ok well link still wins.

Originally posted by The Valiant
This is just a sword-fight (nonething else), so none of that "extra" crap.

Mortal Draw isn't " 'extra' crap," it's a legitimate sword technique taught to him that inflicts lethal damage on an off-guard opponent. It's valid, and if this isn't God Kratos, then he loses...maybe...

Kratos cuts Link and his sword in half.

I could have sworn you claimed the swords invulerable that Link uses? or is this a slip up? because if it is, its more evidence of how BS that 1000+ ton strength feat is.

Although Kratos is too powerful for Link, both in strength and in weapon.

Kratos isn't gonna break a sweat on Link in these conditions, with or without hidden skills which at best are slightly past normal human capabilities; Kratos is regularly a much higher level of superhuman, I would think he'd rank higher than...pretty much every enemy in the series that didn't have to do with the more ethereal aspects of its top-tier (Ganon).

I could argue that the Blade of Olympus is more powerful than the Master Sword, given that the latter's powers only speak for anything in the presence of evil.

been done before

um kratos is evil. kratos at his regular form was on the brink of death from barbarians. link wins because he never cried for help against mere humans.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
um kratos is evil. kratos at his regular form was on the brink of death from barbarians. link wins because he never cried for help against mere humans. Not this shit again.... Kratos is an ANTI HERO. Kratos Powers weren't even activated during the Barbarian attack. And Nice Bias fanboyism you have.

He shows bias, fanboyism and ignorance in every thread he enters.

his powers arent active in this fight either so its basic kratos with a good blade. link wins.

Originally posted by Burning thought
He shows bias, fanboyism and ignorance in every thread he enters. he seems to be hating on Anti-heroes alot

Originally posted by Burning thought
He shows bias, fanboyism and ignorance in every thread he enters.

lol like you in kain threads

lol, it says his armour and magic are not active, not his powers e.g. superhuman strength capable of shattering the body of Link with a punch.

prove that bold statement.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
his powers arent active in this fight either so its basic kratos with a good blade. link wins. umm his power is activate as its a vital part of him. you know his STRENGTH. and nice ignorance again. since you want to play like that then link doesn't get his power(i E his speed or Strength feets)

link still wins the sword fight

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
prove that bold statement. you first attack Kain stating some mumbo jumbo about how time stop won't work on luigi. you then say that he sucks kain up with vaccum despite, if you had any knowledge of Kain, he is INVISIBLE DURING THE FORM.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
link still wins the sword fight wrong and prove it. don't just make a claim without backing it up

actually he is mist

Only as invisible as mist is, it refracts when you shine a light on it, and Luigi packs a flash light.

Vacuum>Kain. <---Amuses me.

you called me wrong without proving it

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
you called me wrong without proving it i did look at my post

Well Chocobo>Link would amuse me.....but still, both statements are sort of in the wrong thread.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Only as invisible as mist is, it refracts when you shine a light on it, and Luigi packs a flash light.

Vacuum>Kain. <---Amuses me. doesn't work that way. he moves faster that the boos that luigi fights

prove that

Originally posted by Phanteros
wrong and prove it. don't just make a claim without backing it up

here you say wrong. so prove im wrong

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
prove that prove me that link beats kratos in a normal fight. Kratos has super strength that stop a collosus from crushing him. he is durable enough to tank a Huge spear from around the world. he reacted to lightning.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
here you say wrong. so prove im wrong just did, keep looking up the post

Originally posted by Phanteros
prove me that link beats kratos in a normal fight. Kratos has super strength that stop a collosus from crushing him. he is durable enough to tank a Huge spear from around the world. he reacted to lightning.

that was with his god powers. and this isnt god kratos. this is the kratos that was about to be killed by barbarians.

erm...you just assumed that, unfortunatley the OP disagrees with you.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
his powers arent active in this fight either so its basic kratos with a good blade. link wins.

And "basic" Kratos (the one you play as throughout the games sans his magic spells and extra weapons as per the rules of this thread) has physical strength, resilience, and agility of someone born to a God. Which brings me to my point of Kratos being a demigod. Link's never fought anyone on Kratos' level, let alone does he, or anyone in the league of a singular Link for that matter (and a single Link with only a sword is not much in the long run), stand a chance in a straight-up sword fight.

And no, Kratos isn't evil. He isn't acheiving any of his goals out of maliciousness, sadism, or an intent to rule. Just because life has made him a pride-driven bastard doesn't mean it made him a tyrannical standard villain. Life gives Kratos lemons, but Kratos simply jams them into the eye-sockets of the poor mythical saps that come his way. He works for redemption/revenge/to end the rule of the Gods. Hell, none of the GoW characters are "evil" in a novel sense, the whole series is based on perspective more than black-and-white.

Originally posted by Burning thought
erm...you just assumed that, unfortunatley the OP disagrees with you.

i asked the guy and he said this isnt god kratos.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
that was with his god powers. and this isnt god kratos. this is the kratos that was about to be killed by barbarians. umm no fanboy. he did this with his normal power that was BORN with him. i believe you failed to play all of the GOW games because you know that Kratos Born powers are his strength that wasn't taken away. he stopped a hydra in the first game from killing him. but since you seem to try down playing feats so much. then this is just link in the start of OoT(kid link) who has no feats because it was the beginning.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
i asked the guy and he said this isnt god kratos. God Kratos didn't Give kratos his strength he has always had that.

Originally posted by First_Tsurugi06
And "basic" Kratos has physical strength, resilience, and agility of someone born to a God. Which brings me to my point of Kratos being a demigod. Link's never fought anyone on Kratos' level, let alone does he, or anyone in the league of a singular Link for that matter (and a single Link with only a sword is not much in the long run), stand a chance in a straight-up sword fight.

And no, Kratos isn't evil. He isn't acheiving any of his goals out of maliciousness, sadism, or an intent to rule. Just because life has made him a pride-driven bastard doesn't mean it made him a tyrannical standard villain. Life gives Kratos lemons, but Kratos simply jams them into the eye-sockets of the poor mythical saps that come his way. He works for redemption/revenge/to end the rule of the Gods. Hell, none of the GoW characters are "evil" in a novel sense, the whole series is based on perspective more than black-and-white.

kratos is evil hercules. son of zeus and a human. kratos lusts power and kills innocents. at first he isnt evil but turns out to be worse than ares. kratos physical strength was overpowered by barbarians dont forget that interesting fact. TP link was proven by somebody to have tons of strength. so this match comes down to skill with a sword.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
kratos is evil hercules. son of zeus and a human. kratos lusts power and kills innocents. at first he isnt evil but turns out to be worse than ares. kratos physical strength was overpowered by barbarians dont forget that interesting fact. TP link was proven by somebody to have tons of strength. so this match comes down to skill with a sword. Anti hero. Kratos power wasn't activated during that time, numb skull

Originally posted by Phanteros
God Kratos didn't Give kratos his strength he has always had that.

when he blocked colossus he was in his god form. I know he has strength because he has the same father as hercules

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
kratos is evil hercules. son of zeus and a human. kratos lusts power and kills innocents. at first he isnt evil but turns out to be worse than ares. kratos physical strength was overpowered by barbarians dont forget that interesting fact. TP link was proven by somebody to have tons of strength. so this match comes down to skill with a sword. no Kratos has his strength here numb skull so he can crush link

Kratos being overpowered by Barbarians was BEFORE his power as a demigod was realized. Nobody in Greek mythology was particularly benevolent anyway, as the whole thing was about vengeance, deception, lust, a vie for power, and such things. TP Link's strength feats are not only a result of usual hyperbole, but still don't match any of Kratos' in base form. Kratos is only "worse than Ares" out of the fact that he seeks to show thw world the "glory of Sparta". That's not evil, that's just arrogance.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
when he blocked colossus he was in his god form. I know he has strength because he has the same father as hercules THEY DO NOT HAVE THE SAME STORY. Kratos has had always his strength before he even ascended to godhood. you never even played all the games without even looking further in the plot.

Originally posted by Phanteros
no Kratos has his strength here numb skull so he can crush link

he always had his herculian strength. never said he didnt but link isnt a weakling. therefore it comes down to a sword fight and link wins.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
he always had his herculian strength. never said he didnt but link isnt a weakling. therefore it comes down to a sword fight and link wins. how. Kratos can alway rip him in half. kratos swings twice as much fast than link usually swings.

But his strength doesn't even begin to compare to Kratos', nor do any of his other physical attributes, and for that much, Kratos, being a more well-trained warrior, and completely superior to Link physically by leagues, wins this.

Kratos is still stronger than link

Originally posted by Phanteros
THEY DO NOT HAVE THE SAME STORY. Kratos has had always his strength before he even ascended to godhood. you never even played all the games without even looking further in the plot.

in the begining of GoWII kratos fights colossus. before kratos puts his god powers in the blade of olympus, he keeps colossus from crushing him. after he puts all his god powers in the blade, colossus hand crushes kratos severely injuring him. i played it. go refresh your memory

Originally posted by Phanteros
Kratos is still stronger than link

i never said he wasnt i said link isnt a weakling

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
in the begining of GoWII kratos fights colossus. before kratos puts his god powers in the blade of olympus, he keeps colossus from crushing him. after he puts all his god powers in the blade, colossus hand crushes kratos severely injuring him. i played it. go refresh your memory he wasn't even paying attention.

that shows the durability of kratos without god powers.

Kratos' God of War powers were what brought the Colossus to life. They were taken by Zeus in the form of an eagle and put into the statue, where Kratos, with the Blade of Olympus, eventually entered it, and took back said powers, which remained in the Blade throughout the whole story of GoWII, by the end of which, Kratos has the Blade back.

no, having a spear tossed at him by Ares from around the world shows his durability. And actually not, it shows nothing of Kratos' durability because Kratos is not actually physically damaged.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
that shows the durability of kratos without god powers. he still wasn't crush that bad considering the Rhodes used its DEAD Weight on him.

Many of Kratos' feats are unquantifiable. -.O; The collossus was hollow, we don't know how hard Atlas squeezed with his thumb and forefinger, ect.

The same could be said for TP Link, he contends physicly with Ganon who is established as stronger than OoT Link, who threw an object in excess of 1000 tons at a minimum of 75 meters per second. How strong is Ganon? We don't know, other than he's stronger then Link. This makes the feat unquantifiable.

Kratos IS evil, an arrogant tosspot who rapes and pillages to show how awesome Sparta is still happens to be evil, regardless of his good intentions.

So really, this is an oddball thread, and people are making too many assumption.

</reality check>

Originally posted by Phanteros
he still wasn't crush that bad considering the Rhodes used its DEAD Weight on him.

he was about to die and he couldnt swing or lift the blades of athena.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
he was about to die and he couldnt swing or lift the blades of athena. you have yet to debunk the other Kratos supporters points. and if you can't did link doesn't win.

Originally posted by Phanteros
you have yet to debunk the other Kratos supporters points. and if you can't did link doesn't win.

what points?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Many of Kratos' feats are unquantifiable. -.O; The collossus was hollow, we don't know how hard Ares squeezed with his thumb and forefinger, ect.

The same could be said for TP Link, he contends physicly with Ganon who is established as stronger than OoT Link, who threw an object in excess of 1000 tons at a minimum of 75 meters per second. How strong is Ganon? We don't know, other than he's stronger then Link. This makes the feat unquantifiable.

Kratos IS evil, an arrogant tosspot who rapes and pillages to show how awesome Sparta is still happens to be evil, regardless of his good intentions.

So really, this is an oddball thread, and people are making too many assumption.

</reality check> Kratos feats are quantifiable. when you NOT PUTTING MATH INTO EVERYTHING WHERE MATH ISN'T APPLIED. and you still fail to understand what Anti hero means

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
what points? Burning Thought's points, Turugi's Points. keep looking at the previous page.

Originally posted by Phanteros
Kratos feats are quantifiable. when you NOT PUTTING MATH INTO EVERYTHING WHERE MATH ISN'T APPLIED

math can be applied to everything

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Many of Kratos' feats are unquantifiable. -.O; The collossus was hollow, we don't know how hard Ares squeezed with his thumb and forefinger, ect.

The same could be said for TP Link, he contends physicly with Ganon who is established as stronger than OoT Link, who threw an object in excess of 1000 tons at a minimum of 75 meters per second. How strong is Ganon? We don't know, other than he's stronger then Link. This makes the feat unquantifiable.

Kratos IS evil, an arrogant tosspot who rapes and pillages to show how awesome Sparta is still happens to be evil, regardless of his good intentions.

So really, this is an oddball thread, and people are making too many assumption.

</reality check>

Bullshit as usual

The colossus was enormous and you could see how thick its bronze was, the fact a giant of such weight falls on him and is tossed by him at various times is insane.

The only Ganon who contends with OoT link is the large beast version which is not the typical guise of Ganon or form. The rest of this paragraph is your nonsense as usual.

The only time link is strong, lets say he is as strong as you say, is when he wears those gauntlets in one game of hte series, and Ganon is not his typical shape or guise at the time.

I am sorry but LoZ's fairly unintelligent or light themes of what is evil does not stand in every universe in fiction, in the more mature GOW universe, "evil" is seen as a point of view, infact is it even brought up?

As is said, Kratos smashes Link, his sword etc with his bare hands.

Collossus = hollow
How hard Atlas squeezed = we don't know. This would be like claiming TP Link is stronger because he sword locked with Ganon, when we don't know how strong Ganon is, except that he's above the 1000+ ton range.

@Phanteros, Anti-hero doesn't make you non-evil. What Kratos does is evil. And Link would clearly percieve him that way, as would his weapon which comes from the LoZverse, I might add, and therefore has an understanding of why killing innocents = evil.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Bullshit as usual

The colossus was enormous and you could see how thick its bronze was, the fact a giant of such weight falls on him and is tossed by him at various times is insane.

The only Ganon who contends with OoT link is the large beast version which is not the typical guise of Ganon or form. The rest of this paragraph is your nonsense as usual.

The only time link is strong, lets say he is as strong as you say, is when he wears those gauntlets in one game of hte series, and Ganon is not his typical shape or guise at the time.

I am sorry but LoZ's fairly unintelligent or light themes of what is evil does not stand in every universe in fiction, in the more mature GOW universe, "evil" is seen as a point of view, infact is it even brought up?

As is said, Kratos smashes Link, his sword etc with his bare hands.

link doesnt have gauntlets in TP when he tosses those gorons. The colossus feat doesnt apply to kratos unless it's god kratos.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
i never said he wasnt i said link isnt a weakling

Still a far cry from Kratos' strength. Kratos with his bare hands has better showings of strength than OOT Link with the Golden Gauntlets. Until I see Link regularly MANHANDLE creatures three times his size, tear limbs and heads off with his bare hands, or so much as push himself and an entire elevating off of a cieling, I'm not gonna look at a singular Link equipped with only a sword as a particular threat to Kratos.



No, he's not. He fights ruthlessly against other armies to show awesome Sparta is, and his intentions are never for the sake of gaining power to rule over anyone else. He works for his own benefit to resolve his past crimes and taking any means necessary isn't evil.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
link doesnt have gauntlets in TP when he tosses those gorons. The colossus feat doesnt apply to kratos unless it's god kratos. it is aplied to Kratos because he was Born with this powers

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
math can be applied to everything No it doesn't.

Yes, taking any means necessary is evil, because it implies that you don't care what happens or who you hurt as long as you get what you're after. People who use any means necessary usually end up in history books next to Hitler.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Yes, taking any means necessary is evil, because it implies that you don't care what happens or who you hurt as long as you get what you're after. People who use any means necessary usually end up in history books next to Hitler. there is no Morals in greek myth. and morals are a matter of opinion not in the perspective of the person who undertake this decisions for a cause. thus morals= outside opinions

Kratos opinion of his own actions is moot, they are evil by any logical standard, especially the standard that LoZ characters operate on.

Originally posted by Phanteros
you first attack Kain stating some mumbo jumbo about how time stop won't work on luigi. you then say that he sucks kain up with vaccum despite, if you had any knowledge of Kain, he is INVISIBLE DURING THE FORM.

Actually, Phanteros, I was the one who claimed time stop wouldn't affect Luigi when under the power of a Star Man, and I do stand by it. It doesn't mean I thought Luigi would win the thread, though.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Yes, taking any means necessary is evil, because it implies that you don't care what happens or who you hurt as long as you get what you're after. People who use any means necessary usually end up in history books next to Hitler.

That's not evil, that's indifference. It's only evil if it's done out of an intentional malice, or from a sadistic streak. Kratos, contrary to poplular belief, is neither, as what he does is eventually the benefit for the greater good, even if that part doesn't mean sh*t to him.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Collossus = hollow
How hard Atlas squeezed = we don't know. This would be like claiming TP Link is stronger because he sword locked with Ganon, when we don't know how strong Ganon is, except that he's above the 1000+ ton range.


I dont give a damn about repeating myself for your delusions.

However I want you to answer this.

The Ganon, the big beast thing that actually fights link in the game where he has the Golden Gauntlets is not the typical Ganon, and so....unfortunatley the only Ganon you can attribute any of your delusions to, is the big beast form....which oddly enough, is not the guise he takes in the other games. So....the Link in that game, as well as the Ganon are useless to you in Link vs threads unless it is specifically stated he has those items and the characters are of those versions.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
link doesnt have gauntlets in TP when he tosses those gorons. The colossus feat doesnt apply to kratos unless it's god kratos.

Gorons are not likely even that heavy but that definatley had toonforce elements.

Originally posted by Phanteros
it is aplied to Kratos because he was Born with this powers

kratos was not born the god of war. those powers kept colossus from crushing him. notice he got crushed when he put his powers in the blade.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Kratos opinion of his own actions is moot, they are evil by any logical standard, especially the standard that LoZ characters operate on. GOW does not Follow the laws OF LOZ. its a everyman for the thems selves world. so you can't say Kratos is evil when i can say he's not so moot

Originally posted by Burning thought

Gorons are not likely even that heavy but that definatley had toonforce elements.

shut up

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
kratos was not born the god of war. those powers kept colossus from crushing him. notice he got crushed when he put his powers in the blade. he WASN"T PAYING ATTENTION TO THE RHODES!!!

Kratos only got crushed because he didn't see the hand coming, thus didn't prepare for it. Kratos was born a demigod but simply didn't have them realized until a later time.

Wrong. That IS evil, ends do not justify means, and what about the ship captain? No malice indeed... -.- Kratos is a sadistic **** and he enjoys causing pain and death. Good character idea, still evil though.


Actually, the huge beast form is the version Ganon takes in all of the games before OoT, and Ganon also appears as GanonDORF for the first time ever in that same game, so you're incorrect.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
shut up You shut up

Evil exists in every universe, just not always as a definite, or as a tangible force. The boy who steals candy from his sibling is commiting an evil act on a small scale, Kratos killing the ship catpain for fun, doing all sorts of other horrible things for selfish reasons, this is evil. And his opinion doesn't matter, because the reason it's important is how the sword would react to him, and it'd read him off as eviler than Hitelr, imho.


Edit; furthermore BT, there's no toonforce feats in Zelda. -.- Goron bouncing doesn't detract from the strength required to throw it.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Wrong. That IS evil, ends do not justify means, and what about the ship captain? No malice indeed... -.- Kratos is a sadistic **** and he enjoys causing pain and death. Good character idea, still evil though.


Actually, the huge beast form is the version Ganon takes in all of the games before OoT, and Ganon also appears as GanonDORF for the first time ever in that same game, so you're incorrect. I say Kratos isn't evil and morals are a Matter of oppinion obvious since you keep say who is bad and who is goood. so i say Kratos is neutral so moot your point

Originally posted by Phanteros
GOW does not Follow the laws OF LOZ. its a everyman for the thems selves world. so you can't say Kratos is evil when i can say he's not so moot

kratos's actions make him evil. quest for power, killing innocents sounds like ganondorf's M.O. so link would interpret him as evil.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Wrong. That IS evil, ends do not justify means, and what about the ship captain? No malice indeed... -.- Kratos is a sadistic **** and he enjoys causing pain and death. Good character idea, still evil though.


Actually, the huge beast form is the version Ganon takes in all of the games before OoT, and Ganon also appears as GanonDORF for the first time ever in that same game, so you're incorrect.


So? its not the form we see him in now, and its not the form we debate in VS matches.

Show me Ganon/GanonDORF (the humanoid version) blocking Link while he is wearing the golden Gauntlets.

Originally posted by Phanteros
You shut up

are you taking up for your boyfriend? i wasnt telling you to shut up but now i am.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Evil exists in every universe, just not always as a definite, or as a tangible force. The boy who steals candy from his sibling is commiting an evil act on a small scale, Kratos killing the ship catpain for fun, doing all sorts of other horrible things for selfish reasons, this is evil. And his opinion doesn't matter, because the reason it's important is how the sword would react to him, and it'd read him off as eviler than Hitelr, imho. No one in god of war is evil. notice that everyone there is in a state of anarchy. you only see the exterior of kratos and not the interrior.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
are you taking up for your boyfriend? i wasnt telling you to shut up but now i am. Thanks for your trolling dipshit

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
kratos's actions make him evil. quest for power, killing innocents sounds like ganondorf's M.O. so link would interpret him as evil. matters of opinions.

Guys, let's keep this civil. No personal insults, eh?

On topic, point of view goes a long way with how humans will sympathize with a character, but that doesn't mean that actions don't still fall clearly on the evil side of the alignment spectrum.

Originally posted by Phanteros
matters of opinions.

evil is in the eye of the beholder.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Wrong. That IS evil, ends do not justify means, and what about the ship captain? No malice indeed... -.- Kratos is a sadistic **** and he enjoys causing pain and death. Good character idea, still evil though.

No, that wasn't malice, that was a matter of priority. Kratos returned for the key, not to drop the guy down just for the sake of amusement, it was out of the fact that he had no need to use the captain, only the key. Sadism is taking amusement in seeing and causing death and destruction. If everything he did was for the sake of amusement, then he would actually be shown revelling in the countless deaths he leaves in his wake; Kratos doesn't even smile, let alone show implication of emotion towards killing someone. Again, indifference. Cruel indifference, no less, but not sadism.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
evil is in the eye of the beholder. neutral is the the eye of the beholder

Link fought Ganon as a human and beast in OoT, not just one, so yes, he fought both forms of Ganon, and those are the forms that we use in debates.

Ganondorf in OoT needs to be stunned just to be able to get through his defenses with Link's sword.

Ganon disarms Link with a single swing in the same game.

Ganondorf is stronger then Link even with the golden gauntlets in canon, and in TP the only reason Link could overpower him is because Ganon had been weakened from three rounds of fighting prior. It's still incredibly impressive, but unquantifiable, just like Kratos holding apart Atlas fingers, we have no idea how hard Atlas actually squeezed.

didnt kratos kill his family for power?

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
didnt kratos kill his family for power? no he was mind tricked into killing them

Originally posted by First_Tsurugi06
No, that wasn't malice, that was a matter of priority. Kratos returned for the key, not to drop the guy down just for the sake of amusement, it was out of the fact that he had no need to use the captain, only the key. Sadism is taking amusement in seeing and causing death and destruction. If everything he did was for the sake of amusement, then he would actually be shown revelling in the countless deaths he leaves in his wake; Kratos doesn't even smile, let alone show implication of emotion towards killing someone. Again, indifference. Cruel indifference, no less, but not sadism. So he's a sociopath, still evil. It'd have infact been just as easy to grab the key and pull the captain all of, what, two feet? with Kratos' strength, and they meet multiple times.. Lol. Kratos is evil, there's no way aroudn that and just because he doesn't thin khe is doesn't make him non-evil. No one intentionally does evil, Hitler didn't think he was evil, but that bastard was evil.

Originally posted by Phanteros
no he was mind tricked into killing them

well why did he kill them?

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
didnt kratos kill his family for power?

No Luigi, in fact Ares deceiving Kratos into killing his own family is what led to the events of the GoW series.

He killed his family by accident. He was in a blind rage from Ares' influence, and was brought to a temple where his family was, and they were lured TO the temple BY Ares SO Kratos could kill them. It was all a part of ARES' plan to sever all ties Kratos had that could have kept him from becoming stronger.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
So he's a sociopath, still evil. Ht'd have infact been just as easy to grab the key and pull the captain all of, what, two feet? with Kratos' strength, and they meet multiple times.. Lol. Kratos is evil, there's no way aroudn that and just because he doesn't thin khe is doesn't make him non-evil. No one intentionally does evil, Hitler didn't think he was evil, but that bastard was evil. i people in germany didn't think hitler was evil does that make them evil?

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
well why did he kill them?

Ares clouded his mind in battle and made Kratos believe they were enemies. He did so to free Kratos from anything that would hold him back from being the ultimate avatar for the god of war. It worked...

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Link fought Ganon as a human and beast in OoT, not just one, so yes, he fought both forms of Ganon, and those are the forms that we use in debates.

Ganondorf in OoT needs to be stunned just to be able to get through his defenses with Link's sword.

Ganon disarms Link with a single swing in the same game.

Ganondorf is stronger then Link even with the golden gauntlets in canon, and in TP the only reason Link could overpower him is because Ganon had been weakened from three rounds of fighting prior. It's still incredibly impressive, but unquantifiable, just like Kratos holding apart Atlas fingers, we have no idea how hard Atlas actually squeezed.

We use the human form capable of magic, we use the latest form, has Ganon transformed into the same beast and blocked Link with the golden gauntlets in the latest variations of him?

But is there a canon cutscene of Ganondorf blocking or surviving Links hits with the Golden gauntlets? as I said, please show me, dont just tell me.

I know, thats a beast form that we dont usually use, I highly doubt Ganon has done all his feats especially magical ones in each form.

Is this proven? and when? all ive seen Link fight with the Gauntlets on and actually beating is the beast in that old video.


And evil is a point of view no matter the person or the act

http://zero2180.net/assets/images/blog/alignment1.gif

kratos is neutral(this is from DaD

Originally posted by Phanteros
i people in germany didn't think hitler was evil does that make them evil? Actually, due to the debt the first world war had put Germany in, Hitler seemed like help to them because he proimised them freedom and better lives, and MANY Germans disagreed with him, but let's not get poltical, you see my point.

Not believing yourself to be evil doesn't make you innocent.

Originally posted by Phanteros
i people in germany didn't think hitler was evil does that make them evil?

many of them did read the book Night

Originally posted by Phanteros
http://zero2180.net/assets/images/blog/alignment1.gif

kratos is neutral(this is from DaD

It's funny you mention D&D, "By any means necessary" is a phrase under chaotic evil in the PHB.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Actually, due to the debt the first world war had put Germany in, Hitler seemed like help to them because he proimised them freedom and better lives, and MANY Germans disagreed with him, but let's not get poltical, you see my point.

Not believing yourself to be evil doesn't make you innocent. look at my chart above.

Look at my comment above.

Originally posted by Phanteros
http://zero2180.net/assets/images/blog/alignment1.gif

kratos is neutral(this is from DaD

Are you sure you want to get me started on D&D alignment? Kratos is most definitely not true neutral. I would say he's, at best, chaotic neutral. He seeks to overthrow the ultimate of power law (the gods) for his own personal vendetta, and cares little about who he has to save or kill to attain his goal.

Edit: Damn it Scream, you stupid sock! Quit sniping me! XP

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Are you sure you want to get me started on D&D alignment? Kratos is most definitely not true neutral. I would say he's, at best, chaotic neutral. He seeks to overthrow the ultimate of power law (the gods) for his own personal vendetta, and cares little about who he has to save or kill to attain his goal.

Edit: Damn it Scream, you stupid sock! Quit sniping me! XP
SNIPED!

Edit; you're MY sock. :]

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
It's funny you mention D&D, "By any means necessary" is a phrase under chaotic evil in the PHB. no you are once again trying to put Kratos in a spectrum he isn't in. evil is a wide term. you can't just call someone evil without looking at there past to see why they are the way they are

Oh, it's always just so hard to tell who's the original anymore. How many socks do we have now?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
So he's a sociopath, still evil. It'd have infact been just as easy to grab the key and pull the captain all of, what, two feet? with Kratos' strength, and they meet multiple times.. Lol. Kratos is evil, there's no way aroudn that and just because he doesn't thin khe is doesn't make him non-evil. No one intentionally does evil, Hitler didn't think he was evil, but that bastard was evil.

That's even more arguable. If Kratos was told to save the ship captain by the Gods or something, he probably would have. The fact that they meet multiple times is simply the closest semblance to comic relief that the God of War series has in its plot, and more a testament to the fact that he only kills that which STANDS IN HIS WAY, not every single thing that so much as darts an eyelid at him (i.e., Perseus, who Kratos ignored during his whole rant, and prior to it, even stepped out of his way to let him get on with his own business). No one in Greek Mythology is evil by any standard, just their conflicts born of humanly emotion is often exaggerated to a struggle. That's the case with God of War as well. If something doesn't involve Kratos, he won't GET involved unless told to or if it's said to benefit his goal. He's not sadistic, he's not malicious, he doesn't kill primarily to make others suffer, or to give himself amusement.

the point is he isn't complete evil he still has some good nature in him

Originally posted by Phanteros
no you are once again trying to put Kratos in a spectrum he isn't in. evil is a wide term. you can't just call someone evil without looking at there past to see why they are the way they are

Actually, you can do exactly that. We can all sympathize with Kratos wanting to kill the gods because of the torment they put him through, but his actions to attain the power to do that very act is still sometimes fall into the evil mindset.

He is evil, by your logic, Phanteros, I could kill your parents and not be evil because someone's parent tocuhed me innapropriately as a child. -.O

In DnD Kratos is chaotic evil. In Zelda, the universe that cares, he's evil as hell. The sword will register him as evil.

Just because evil doesn't exist as a philosophical tendency in GoW doesn't mean it doesn't exist, A LOT of things Kratos does are pure evil, regardless of intent, so he doesn't kill EVERYTHING, he still is VERY unnecessarily violent and cruel, he's evil.

P.S. Xan, check your PM's.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
He is evil, by your logic, Phanteros, I could kill your parents and not be evil because someone's parent tocuhed me innapropriately as a child. -.O

In DnD Kratos is chaotic evil. In Zelda, the universe that cares, he's evil as hell. The sword will register him as evil.

Just because evil doesn't exist as a philosophical tendency in GoW doesn't mean it doesn't exist, A LOT of things Kratos does are pure evil, regardless of intent, so he doesn't kill EVERYTHING, he still is VERY unnecessarily violent and cruel, he's evil. no one is clear evil. Kratos has remediable point to where gannon doesn't. he doesn't abid to the laws of Loz because its not his universe. the DnD spectrum was put here to show you that there is no clear evil nor good.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
P.S. Xan, check your PM's.

I already saw it. Honestly, I don't understand how someone can love numbers so much. I can't stand math.

And Kratos CLEARLy falls into the evil section, and whether Kratos abides by the laws of LoZ or not, the sword does, and the sword will smell the evil on him, and purge it. o_O

Originally posted by XanatosForever
I already saw it. Honestly, I don't understand how someone can love numbers so much. I can't stand math. I'm a physics nerd.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
He is evil, by your logic, Phanteros, I could kill your parents and not be evil because someone's parent tocuhed me innapropriately as a child. -.O

In DnD Kratos is chaotic evil. In Zelda, the universe that cares, he's evil as hell. The sword will register him as evil.

Just because evil doesn't exist as a philosophical tendency in GoW doesn't mean it doesn't exist, A LOT of things Kratos does are pure evil, regardless of intent, so he doesn't kill EVERYTHING, he still is VERY unnecessarily violent and cruel, he's evil. he doesn't enjoy what he is doing he freed atlas for the torment he put him through. he sacrifice the chance to bring his daughter back to save the world on his on accord. does that make make him evil? to give up the chance to ever save his daughter for the sake of the world?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
And Kratos CLEARLy falls into the evil section, and whether Kratos abides by the laws of LoZ or not, the sword does, and the sword will smell the evil on him, and purge it. o_O the sword will also find that Kratos save his world from the destruction. and refuse to attack.

Originally posted by Phanteros
no one is clear evil. Kratos has remediable point to where gannon doesn't. he doesn't abid to the laws of Loz because its not his universe. the DnD spectrum was put here to show you that there is no clear evil nor good.

Yes, Kratos has a past that explains his actions, but sympathy does not equal non-evil.

For example, if a paladin's son was killed by a burglar, the Paladin would feel the urge to find that burglar and make him pay, yes? We see the paladin as good and the burglar as evil. However, if said burglar was only stealing from the paladin's son because he had no money to feed his family, could we still view the burglar in the same light? No, but that doesn't excuse him from killing the paladin's son. The paladin, being a paragon of virtue good and order, might refrain from killing the burglar, but he would still have him arrested, likely.

Originally posted by Phanteros
the sword will also find that Kratos save his world from the destruction. and refuse to attack.

no it wont. evil actions outweigh the good. the sword doesnt control link either.

1: There's no record of the sword ever refusing to attack.

2. No, it'll smite him for doing it wrong. The sword knows about saving worlds, it's what thw sword does, without being a jerk.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Yes, Kratos has a past that explains his actions, but sympathy does not equal non-evil.

For example, if a paladin's son was killed by a burglar, the Paladin would feel the urge to find that burglar and make him pay, yes? We see the paladin as good and the burglar as evil. However, if said burglar was only stealing from the paladin's son because he had no money to feed his family, could we still view the burglar in the same light? No, but that doesn't excuse him from killing the paladin's son. The paladin, being a paragon of virtue good and order, might refrain from killing the burglar, but he would still have him arrested, likely. not all paladins behave like that see arthas

Originally posted by Phanteros
he doesn't enjoy what he is doing he freed atlas for the torment he put him through. he sacrifice the chance to bring his daughter back to save the world on his on accord. does that make make him evil? to give up the chance to ever save his daughter for the sake of the world?

You really should have put that as a spoiler. I'm still trying to beat the game. >.<

fallen paladins become death knights or something

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
1: There's no record of the sword ever refusing to attack.

2. No, it'll smite him for doing it wrong. The sword knows about saving worlds, it's what thw sword does, without being a jerk. so Kratos is bad because he save his world in sacrifice of to revive his daughter?

Oh, and Ganon DOES have a redeeming side to him, as seen clearly in WW. But he's gone mad, his motivations weren't always evil, but he's the king of evil.

Originally posted by Phanteros
not all paladins behave like that see arthas

I know not all paladins function the same way, I was using a generic lawful good paladin. There's also a chance the paladin could have killed the burglar anyway, but following the rules for D&D, that would then risk him falling out of grace with his deity, because killing the burglar even after knowing the crime was unintentional would be an evil act.

Sacrificing his daughter, who he probably molested as a child cause he's a psycho, is one good thing compared to a million evil things,and it's barely even a choice, because if he didn't sacrifice her she'd have been screwed anyway.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
1: There's no record of the sword ever refusing to attack.

2. No, it'll smite him for doing it wrong. The sword knows about saving worlds, it's what thw sword does, without being a jerk. to bad it can't kill ganon currently, so link need the silver arrows to defeat him. but nether the less kratos isn't plain evil

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
fallen paladins become death knights or something

Fallen paladins can continue adventures as fighters, or seek to atone and regain their former status. paladins who swear loyalty to an evil aspect are Black Guards

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Sacrificing his daughter, who he probably molested as a child cause he's a psycho, is one good thing compared to a million evil things,and it's barely even a choice, because if he didn't sacrifice her she'd have been screwed anyway. He didn't molest her.

Not plain evil, Kratos is a special flavour of evil, I call it 'gore splattered'.

And Ganon never actually dies, it's been long since retconned, but Kratos has died, so eh.

Sword smites.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Not plain evil, Kratos is a special flavour of evil, I call it 'gore splattered'.

And Ganon never actually dies, it's been long sicne retconned. you act as if the sword instantly kills evil things, which it doesn't. i say Chaotic Neutral for Kratos.

I say chaotic evil with sprinkles of blasphemy and murder. Any LoZ character, the sword included will see him as evil, and that's all that matters in this thread anyway.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Not plain evil, Kratos is a special flavour of evil, I call it 'gore splattered'.

And Ganon never actually dies, it's been long since retconned, but Kratos has died, so eh.

Sword smites. Kratos rips links arm off.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I say chaotic evil with sprinkles of blasphemy and murder. Any LoZ character, the sword included will see him as evil, and that's all that matters in this thread anyway. no it doesn't because in the God of warverse there is a spectrum of good and evil not a simple black and white Lozverse

Link swords Kratos' hands, inhibiting his ability to grasp.

and you're not getting that Kratos' own perceptions don;t matter, the sword's perception does.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Link swords Kratos' hands, inhibiting his ability to grasp.

and you're not getting that Kratos' own perceptions don;t matter, the sword's perception does. Kratos doesn't abid to the swords law so moot

The sword's law? You mean it smites what it sees as evil? Has he got some kind of opinion resistance?