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How would ROTS Palps do against these folks, in a saber battle only?

Discuss.


Venue: The place where the Jedi Exile fought Sion before confronting Kreia.

Id say palp

Through in Worror and this is a fight, but currently Sidious would take them.

*Throw.

And it sounds like someone's recently read RoT.

Johun sucked if I remember right. Valenthyne was skilled and graceful but not nearly enough to take on Sidious. And Raskta being the sole saber prodigy of the lot won't compensate for the others. Should've arranged it so that Bane's arrest squad (sans Johun) was taking on Sidious, because otherwise he wins this.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
.

And it sounds like someone's recently read RoT.



Nope!

I read it... oh, when it came out.

Kind of sucked.

Palpatine rapes.

Really, really fast.

Originally posted by Eminence
Palpatine rapes.

Really, really fast.
I only proposed this match because I was only allowing sabers.

But, if Palp's truly is so great, it pleases me.

Replace Malachor with a neutral setting and the effects of Worror's battle meditation, and Raskta alone would take it pretty firmly.

Questionable.


Elaborate.

You elaborate first.

I have nothing to elaborate upon. I expressed incredulity and made a (reasonable?) request for you to substantiate, or at least flesh out, your claim regarding Raskta Jsu. Feel free to do so at your own convenience.



Edit:
Translation:
NOU+1

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Questionable.

^Yes you do. You need to have a reason to find something questionable; that is what I would like you to elaborate on.

This is one of the less intelligent things I've seen. If it makes you feel better, I'll replace 'questionable' with 'doubtful'. You see, I simply want you to prove/state your case.

Sidious took on Mace WIndu on a pure lightsaber fight, and he put up quite a battle. No way an amped Ratska is taking this.

Originally posted by ares834
No way an amped Ratska is taking this.

Elaborate.

nebaris, y do u think raskta can take sidious? You (most of us) are aware of the evidence in his favor, so can we skip the feat wars and take as a given that we know the capabilities of both characters? If we start from there, you can analyze why Raskta has a chance rather than just listing feats.

whatevz

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
nebaris, y do u think raskta can take sidious? You (most of us) are aware of the evidence in his favor, so can we skip the feat wars and take as a given that we know the capabilities of both characters? If we start from there, you can analyze why Raskta has a chance rather than just listing feats.

She is -- on paper -- the far more technically skilled of the two of them; her ability was described by the omniscient as "unparalleled" in an era that saw more lightsaber on lightsaber combat than any other, she was renowned by her peers for being the greatest duelist of her time, she was reported to have personally killed more Sith Lords than even the number that had been decimated by the Thought Bomb, she was stated to have achieved the "rare and prestigious rank" of Jedi Weapons Master, and was described by the omniscient narrator as having fully dedicated her time and effort to her lightsaber skills.

From what we can say of Sidious, he doesn't remotely compare. He can't be said to possess a level of ability even approaching that displayed by Raskta, and is strongly implied to have been completely out of practise with the lightsaber, having kept his primary one hidden in a statue for the thirteen years leading to RotS, and having had limited contact with any other lightsaber practitioner (as the Sith Lord, Darth Sidious).

She's displayed a far greater level of speed; in her duel with Darth Bane, she was seen from a battle meditation boosted Farfalla's Force Sensitive eyes as appearing to be everywhere and all around Bane at once: in front of him, behind him, beside him, crouching low, leaping in the air, indicating that she was moving far too quickly for his Force enhanced reaction speeds to visually keep up with.

Sidious has never been shown to be capable of moving at a level of speed even close, meaning, on paper, Raskta firmly holds the advantage in this area as well.

We lack the evidence to be able to truly compare the two of them in any other area pertaining to lightsaber combat, so on paper, Raskta under the conditions I earlier mentioned has far more going for her.

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm76/RayRaySerza5/Avatars/FuuFacePalm.gif

Originally posted by KOS=MOS
She is -- on paper -- the far more technically skilled of the two of them; her ability was described by the omniscient as "unparalleled" in an era that saw more lightsaber on lightsaber combat than any other, she was renowned by her peers for being the greatest duelist of her time, she was reported to have personally killed more Sith Lords than even the number that had been decimated by the Thought Bomb, she was stated to have achieved the "rare and prestigious rank" of Jedi Weapons Master, and was described by the omniscient narrator as having fully dedicated her time and effort to her lightsaber skills.

From what we can say of Sidious, he doesn't remotely compare. He can't be said to possess a level of ability even approaching that displayed by Raskta, and is strongly implied to have been completely out of practise with the lightsaber, having kept his primary one hidden in a statue for the thirteen years leading to RotS, and having had limited contact with any other lightsaber practitioner (as the Sith Lord, Darth Sidious).

She's displayed a far greater level of speed; in her duel with Darth Bane, she was seen from a battle meditation boosted Farfalla's Force Sensitive eyes as appearing to be everywhere and all around Bane at once: in front of him, behind him, beside him, crouching low, leaping in the air, indicating that she was moving far too quickly for his Force enhanced reaction speeds to visually keep up with.

Sidious has never been shown to be capable of moving at a level of speed even close, meaning, on paper, Raskta firmly holds the advantage in this area as well.

We lack the evidence to be able to truly compare the two of them in any other area pertaining to lightsaber combat, so on paper, Raskta under the conditions I earlier mentioned has far more going for her.

She may have been the best OF HER ERA, but Sidious has been called the best of HIS Era, sometimes even that of ALL TIME. Unless if she's outside of time...

And the "out of practice" Sidious was able to duel both Yoda and Mace, plus near instantly destroy 3 jedi master regarded as among the greatest swordsmen the order has EVER (in ANY era) produce...

And Bane is probably using metaphor: if that isn't a justification for you then in that case you can throw the "Bane beets Luke" suggestion out of the window because Luke was said to be unmoved by the black hole at the center of the galaxy.

But I'm stupid for aruging in a way; I don't know who Raskta is! Oh well...

Ahhh!!! Quick, no talking to Nebaris, you'll get banned!!! Runnnnn!!!

I really don't understand this argument. "Out of practice," he slaughtered three of the finest swordsmen in the Order in under eight seconds and went toe-to-toe with Mace Windu.

Oh, and Yoda.

What's so hard to understand? I never said that technical ability was the be all end all of lightsaber combat, or that Palpatine's lack of technical ability somehow made him useless or somehow at an inadequate level to pull off such feats as you just mentioned.

I was simply recognising it as a factor that should be taken into consideration when explaining why I felt that an amped up Raskta had more going for her as a lightsaber combatant.

To be honest I'm not entirely sure what your point is. If we were to accept the strong implication that Palpatine truly was lacking in technical ability, than all that would mean is that he pulled off all of that stuff despite that fact. That wouldn't mean we don't take it into consideration however when analysing his overall level of ability, especially against an opponent who he -- on paper -- doesn't completely outclass in speed or the other areas of lightsaber combat.

Originally posted by Captain REX
From now, I would like to request that nobody interact with Nebaris when he posts. Just let me know where he is and I will ban him and remove his posts.

STFU guys.

Hewhoknowsitall, REX told you to stop interacting with him. Hopefully, if you keep up, he'll ban your ass.

Originally posted by Gideon
STFU guys.

Hewhoknowsitall, REX told you to stop interacting with him. Hopefully, if you keep up, he'll ban your ass.

The question is, why not interact with him? Is he really that much of a virus that needs to be removed?

We should cast him out... like a leper.

Nebaris admitted to me he doesn't even believe most of the stuff he posts and does it to get a rise.

Don't listen to him.

And then when the chips are down, we civilised people should just all turn cannibal and go nuts.

Originally posted by Gideon
STFU guys.

Hewhoknowsitall, REX told you to stop interacting with him. Hopefully, if you keep up, he'll ban your ass.

I'd appreciate if someone could show me where he said this. It'd be a good reference for future dealing with socks.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And then when the chips are down, we civilised people should just all turn cannibal and go nuts. Sweet. I call your nuts.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I'd appreciate if someone could show me where he said this. It'd be a good reference for future dealing with socks. Somewhere in the palpatine essay thread.

why is Jothun Othone in there? he won't do anything to help. lol maybe trip over some rocks and get his partners killed in his inexperience.

or maybe he'll use his diplomacy lightsaber form to take palpy.. and last like 2 seconds.

Testing sig...

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Sweet. I call your nuts.

Hah!

On a silver platter?

Oops! I thought that a random non mod said that...sorry Rex don't ban me/sue me for billions of dollars

Never trust a silver platter.

They give you metal-poisoning.


I mean, Stop talkin' 'bout eating my nuts!!!! I need them for special me-time!

Originally posted by kotorfan
why is Jothun Othone in there? he won't do anything to help. lol maybe trip over some rocks and get his partners killed in his inexperience.

or maybe he'll use his diplomacy lightsaber form to take palpy.. and last like 2 seconds.

It is noted in RoT, that Raskta was able to benefit from Johun's presence by co-ordinating her attacks with his (yes, she's that good).

"And while Johun's own clumsy efforts had actually seemed to impede Sarro when they fought side by side, Raskta appeared to thrive off his presence... she was able to sense and anticipate what he was going to do even as it happened, then use his attacks to her own advantage."

Originally posted by KOS=MOS
She is -- on paper -- the far more technically skilled of the two of them; her ability was described by the omniscient as "unparalleled" in an era that saw more lightsaber on lightsaber combat than any other, she was renowned by her peers for being the greatest duelist of her time, she was reported to have personally killed more Sith Lords than even the number that had been decimated by the Thought Bomb, she was stated to have achieved the "rare and prestigious rank" of Jedi Weapons Master, and was described by the omniscient narrator as having fully dedicated her time and effort to her lightsaber skills.

From what we can say of Sidious, he doesn't remotely compare. He can't be said to possess a level of ability even approaching that displayed by Raskta, and is strongly implied to have been completely out of practise with the lightsaber, having kept his primary one hidden in a statue for the thirteen years leading to RotS, and having had limited contact with any other lightsaber practitioner (as the Sith Lord, Darth Sidious).

She's displayed a far greater level of speed; in her duel with Darth Bane, she was seen from a battle meditation boosted Farfalla's Force Sensitive eyes as appearing to be everywhere and all around Bane at once: in front of him, behind him, beside him, crouching low, leaping in the air, indicating that she was moving far too quickly for his Force enhanced reaction speeds to visually keep up with.


True.

And seeing as Sidious doesn't have orbalisks (the only reason Bane survived that battle), I think the Jedi win this.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
It is noted in RoT, that Raskta was able to benefit from Johun's presence by co-ordinating her attacks with his (yes, she's that good).

"And while Johun's own clumsy efforts had actually seemed to impede Sarro when they fought side by side, Raskta appeared to thrive off his presence... she was able to sense and anticipate what he was going to do even as it happened, then use his attacks to her own advantage." That was also during Worror's Battle Meditation. as it's not present in this case, Raskta's skills and focus decrease with it.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
True.

Nebaris might be blacklisted as per REX's command, but you're not. Since Nebaris has a rather notorious history of disregarding canon statements (unless they pertain to Bane), why don't you explain how that's all true?



Off the top of my head, three separate sources outright confirm that Palpatine, as of Revenge of the Sith, is more powerful than Darth Bane. The only way your conclusion would be valid would be if they were equals; they're not, Palpatine is better.

Power doesn't equal an auto-win though, as Bane was only capable of winning (if thats what you call it) becuase he had specific things on his side besides power. Namely a helpful apprentice, arguably greater control of his force power and the much hated orbalisks.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Power doesn't equal an auto-win though, as Bane was only capable of winning (if thats what you call it) becuase he had specific things on his side besides power. Namely a helpful apprentice, arguably greater control of his force power and the much hated orbalisks.

But that's not what chilled monkey said. He said the orbalisks were the only reason he won.

Once again, I have a hard time believing that Bane has more control over his abilities than Palpatine. Dooku demonstrated great efficiency and skill with telekinesis than what we've seen of Palpatine, yet that doesn't mean he is either more powerful or more refined. It means he has arguably greater control in one division of the Force.

True and true, but what aspects of the force do you think Sidious has that would make up for lack of orbalisks, apprentice and TK-refinement?
Assuming of course you think Sidious could do just as well in Banes position.

Originally posted by Nephthys
True and true, but what aspects of the force do you think Sidious has that would make up for lack of orbalisks, apprentice and TK-refinement?
Assuming of course you think Sidious could do just as well in Banes position.

A lack of TK-refinement?

Nothing indicates that he lacks refinement in telekinesis. Hell, he and Yoda were able to screw around with multiple automobile-sized Senate pods, keeping them in constant rotation and circulation in defiance with gravity, rather casually.

I meant in comparison to Bane, who's shown greater destructive use of TK than Sidious, and was still unable to beat the team with it.

Originally posted by Gideon
But that's not what chilled monkey said. He said the orbalisks were the only reason he won.
.

On reflection that was a mistake. I should have said "the orbalisks and Zannah's aid were the only reasons he won."

Thanks Nephthys.

Originally posted by Gideon
Nebaris might be blacklisted as per REX's command, but you're not. Since Nebaris has a rather notorious history of disregarding canon statements (unless they pertain to Bane), why don't you explain how that's all true?

Okay.

"her ability was described by the omniscient as "unparalleled" in an era that saw more lightsaber on lightsaber combat than any other, she was renowned by her peers for being the greatest duelist of her time, she was reported to have personally killed more Sith Lords than even the number that had been decimated by the Thought Bomb, she was stated to have achieved the "rare and prestigious rank" of Jedi Weapons Master, and was described by the omniscient narrator as having fully dedicated her time and effort to her lightsaber skills."

All of this was stated in the novel.

"From what we can say of Sidious, he doesn't remotely compare. He can't be said to possess a level of ability even approaching that displayed by Raskta,"

Okay, not this bit. Sidious does indeed show a (very) elite level of skill when he takes out Mace's posse in RotS.

"and is strongly implied to have been completely out of practise with the lightsaber, having kept his primary one hidden in a statue for the thirteen years leading to RotS, and having had limited contact with any other lightsaber practitioner (as the Sith Lord, Darth Sidious)."

The bit about keeping his sabre in a statue is right, (and really, can you see him getting much time to practise his sword skills given his workload?) but the fact that he took out Mace's posse so easily even though he was out of practise is a point in Sidious's favour.

"She's displayed a far greater level of speed; in her duel with Darth Bane, she was seen from a battle meditation boosted Farfalla's Force Sensitive eyes as appearing to be everywhere and all around Bane at once: in front of him, behind him, beside him, crouching low, leaping in the air, indicating that she was moving far too quickly for his Force enhanced reaction speeds to visually keep up with."

Also stated in the novel. True, she was being amped by BM, but so was Farfalla and he couldn't follow her movements.

"Sidious has never been shown to be capable of moving at a level of speed even close, meaning, on paper, Raskta firmly holds the advantage in this area as well."

Ah, this bit here, not so much. Sidious also displays super-speed in the RotS novel, to the point where Anakin can see him as only a "thickening black haze."


So okay, not 'all' of it was true, but some of it was.

Personally I feel that, in a 'pure' swordfight (i.e. no TK/lightning etc) Raskta could at least hold her own against Sidious.

Originally posted by Gideon
Off the top of my head, three separate sources outright confirm that Palpatine, as of Revenge of the Sith, is more powerful than Darth Bane. The only way your conclusion would be valid would be if they were equals; they're not, Palpatine is better.

True, but as Nephthys pointed out, power isn't everything. I think you'd have to agree that a near-impenetrable armour covering most of your body and an apprentice to aid you are good advantages that Sidious doesn't have here.

ROTS Sidious also manhandled 3 Masters who were known as some of the best in the Order's history in like 5 seconds. THREE as opposed to Bane's ONE.

Though to be fair to Bane, (and to say it again) Worror's presence really upped the ante. As he isn't in this one.

Sidious took out three jedi MASTERS, from an era which Lucas calls the prime of the jedi order(something like that), in seconds. One of them was able to outduel Grievous. Windu could not even do anything to stop Sidious from butchering them so easy.

Talk about speed? Sidious and Windu looked like blurs to Anakin.

Non-cannonally

Originally posted by Nephthys
Non-cannonally

That's a valid point.

But the rest of Sixty-six and Lucien's points are equally factual. I suppose you'd have to prove that Bane's combatants -- without battle meditation -- are enough to challenge someone whom three of the finest swordsmasters (blah blah blah) couldn't handle.

Your posts could consist entirely of this ^, and we'd still know what you're talking about.

Originally posted by Eminence
Your posts could consist entirely of this ^, and we'd still know what you're talking about.

And it would be equally show-stopping and pertinent. I need to appoint someone to be my heir, the caretaker to all of my threads and knowledge.

You would be a choice, but you don't have enough backbone to stand up to anyone.

Maybe Nemesis? Lucien?

Gideon
And it would be equally show-stopping and pertinent. I need to appoint someone to be my heir, the caretaker to all of my threads and knowledge.

You would be choice, but you .
He tries to be you, me, (and Dupr--) or someone else half the time he's logged on and rides my nuts in arguing every topic we agree on. DS says so, so it's definitely factual, backed by empirical and non user-generated content.

Ever since you made him stop Grammar Nazi'ing he's lost all personality.

Nebaris?

(ToMAYto -- ToMAHto)

Anyways, I certainly don't intend to kick everyone's ass here forever. Hmm...

Yeah, you seem to have a very active retirement.

Originally posted by Eminence
Yeah, you seem to have a very active retirement.

When people's asses yearn for kicking, indeed.

Lucien would be my choice Gideon. *rolls a 18/24* *Foresight activated* *Eminence rolls 24/24* *Lucien fanboy blocking shield broke!*

Damn you Eminence!

Excellent...

Agreed. Lucien it is.

Who shall be the next mod?

Lucien?
Red Nemesis?
Nephthys?
Faunus?
Nebaris?
Darth Power?
Me?
Gideon?
Kotor3?

Cast your votes in now and recieve a reward...maybe.

no.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Agreed. Lucien it is.

But ... He's Canadian.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
no.

Boo! Delete your post!

no.

(Three guesses each at who I am copying.)

Gawd??!

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
no.

(Three guesses each at who I am copying.)
Neb
DS
Faunus.

Out of Ideas.

Oh and me or Nemesis are the next mods, me purely because I watch rather than post at every new thread; with stupid comments. (Eminence)

Oh and I actually own a Banhammer.

Nemesis because actually no, never Nemesis. He would destroy the account of anyone who ever made one grammatical error.

I kinda don't think I would.

(I'm not actually sure who I took the 'no' from. Lucien or Faunus, I think.)

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
I kinda don't think I would.

(I'm not actually sure who I took the 'no' from. Lucien or Faunus, I think.)
So theres some doubt there.

I woulda thought it'd be Faunus over Lucien.

That one's definitely me. Lucien isn't capable of making one word posts, fact.

He has done it once in the past.

Originally posted by Eminence
That one's definitely me. Lucien isn't capable of making one word posts, fact.
k


Lucien does the to-MAY-to to-MAH-to thing.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
k


Lucien does the to-MAY-to to-MAH-to thing.
Aye, he also uses grammaticide which is one i supplied him .
Mwahahahah.

Originally posted by mattatom
Aye, he also uses grammaticide which is one i supplied him .
Mwahahahah. Which I've used extensively in life ever since. Props to that.

And as much as I enjoy Gideon's method of... education, I just can't see myself devoting so much time as a 12 page essay to the process. Unless I was paid for it.

You don't need to write it. You just need to use it as a cudgel to hammer those who dare oppose you!

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Which I've used extensively in life ever since. Props to that.

*Bows* Thankya kindly sir.
Originally posted by Gideon
You don't need to write it. You just need to use it as a cudgel to hammer those who dare oppose you!
*Must resist making joke about size of Faunus's genitalia and insects*
*Waits for someone els to supply it*

Jokes about Faunus his mum or his small genetlia are so overdone. After a while it's more common knowledge than joke.

Ba-zing!

Gahd damn it.

At least i'm reinforcing the truth.

Plus he's the only person here who i'm willing to try and i say try; as i usually fail, to offend, cos the rest of you are just so darn nice.

I'm still the nicest here.

Actually Slash, Red, is. Me and him joined within the week back in '07, and he's been mentoring me since then .

BTW, how do you prevent trolls from pretending to be good, becoming a mod and then perm banning EVERYONE?

wouldn't other mods or the greater admin mod or w/e come along and ban/unmod that mod?