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Punisher, Bullseye, Hawkeye, Deadshot and Solo all get transported to Helms Deep in LOTR verse. They get transported to an empty castle with everything you would find in it but there are no people there. They're chillin and hanging out until they found out the same Orcs that appeared in the film are coming to **** them up and they have 36 hours to prepare.

My Crew get:

1. Standard equipment.
2. 150 Hand ninjas
3 One of Punishers warehouses. Use your imagination but nothing more powerful than a rocket launcher is allowed no armoured vehicles either.
4. Castle full of stuff you would find in a castle....no pun intended. My crew already know where everything is located before prep starts.

P.S. Assume no in-fighting and everybody will cooperate.

How many orcs?

Nuts I just found out there were 10,000 Orcs I thought it was 250,000. Anyway I edited my post and there 10,000 Orcs.

That team is good, but the Uruk Hai have a numbers advantage, and a massive one. I mean, the team only have so much ammo.

+ the Uruk's have Beserkers, which are incredibly hard to put down.

+ on mass Hand Ninja's are terrible.

5 Hand Ninja's would do better than 150.

So in the end, Uruk's win.
But it takes awhile.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
That team is good, but the Uruk Hai have a numbers advantage, and a massive one. I mean, the team only have so much ammo.

It depends on how they use it. I dont think they will just try to put them down with bullets but I can see Punisher planting booby traps awhile before they reach the gates. One grenade could take out probably more than 1 and would at least immobolise.

Bear in mind in daughters of the dragon we see part of Punishers stash. We see 2 walls and we dont even see all of it. There was apporxiamtely 30 guns on each wall and most of them were machine guns. Most likely he has more guns and more weapons because they didnt even show the complete section of the ware house. He has enough guns to equip every hand ninja and ammo.


Originally posted by AlmightyKfish

+ the Uruk's have Beserkers, which are incredibly hard to put down.


Not to grenades, missle launchers or great big filthy machine guns that can mow them down.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish

+ on mass Hand Ninja's are terrible.

5 Hand Ninja's would do better than 150.

Totally disagree thats usually because they are fighting highly skilled martial artists. A mass of hand ninjas took down a sentinel. A group of hand ninjas have nearly killed Ronin and Wolverines HF and bones have saved his life from hand ninjas on 2 ocassions, in one of those incidents he was only fighting four of them.



Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
So in the end, Uruk's win.
But it takes awhile.


Maybe.

And when Wolverine and Electra took on entire hand in their Forbidden City, they won.
Change 150 to 10 and their usefulness will be increased hundredfold!!!
Uruk win this... well, Solo runs away, but he doesn't count.

Originally posted by Survivor19
And when Wolverine and Electra took on entire hand in their Forbidden City, they won.
Change 150 to 10 and their usefulness will be increased hundredfold!!!
Uruk win this... well, Solo runs away, but he doesn't count.

That was after Wolverine had used a sentinel to kill alot of them first, the hand ninjas destroyed the sentinel . Masses of hand ninjas ****ed up Ronin as well.

Both Wolverine and Elektra could kill alot of Orcs as well, sorry mate that logic dont work.

I would say team definitly has a shot. Hand ninjas or not i'm banking on the aim of the guys. They are all better than legolas IMO> No orc is gonna charge the walls and blow it up because anyone of those guys would be able to shoot the bomb as soon as they see it.

Also A shit ton of C4, nades, rockets, plastics, whatever is going to take out a crap ton.

Since Frank has access to alot of guns we mostly lkily won't have to reload just drop a gun and use another and drop a gun and use another and so on. Also Chain gun might be in use here to.

THe only thing I would say that they have to worry about is fatiugue. Killing that many orcs evenw ith guns has to be tiring so if they don't succumb to exhaustion they could do this.

If Aragorn Legolis Gimily and the army of Elves & Men could barely defeat them and were still fighting them on the next day until Gandalf and the riders of the Riddimark not sure that right but hard to see only 5 people doing it. He orcs and Uruk Hai had swords bows and arrows ladders to breach he walls giant grappling hook and fire and gun powered.

they will mess those orcs up. they will be uss explosives for awhile, and once they ran out thy split up bullseyes ammo and share it with each other while he throw shit through the Orcs skulls

Nothing more powerful than a rocket launcher? Would a land mine be considered more powerful? If not, the team clear it. Hand ninjas may be fodder in comics, but theyd wipe the floor with burokai(sp?).

Originally posted by Lord Feron
I would say team definitly has a shot. Hand ninjas or not i'm banking on the aim of the guys. They are all better than legolas IMO> No orc is gonna charge the walls and blow it up because anyone of those guys would be able to shoot the bomb as soon as they see it.

Also A shit ton of C4, nades, rockets, plastics, whatever is going to take out a crap ton.

Since Frank has access to alot of guns we mostly lkily won't have to reload just drop a gun and use another and drop a gun and use another and so on. Also Chain gun might be in use here to.

THe only thing I would say that they have to worry about is fatiugue. Killing that many orcs evenw ith guns has to be tiring so if they don't succumb to exhaustion they could do this.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Nothing more powerful than a rocket launcher? Would a land mine be considered more powerful? If not, the team clear it. Hand ninjas may be fodder in comics, but theyd wipe the floor with burokai(sp?).

Land mines defintely allowed nothing like a combat helicopter or a tank (yeah Frank has had at least one of those).

then they easily win set those up around, or just have Bullseye throw them while he's throwing grenades. And the will take out a ridiculous amount

the rest get mowed down by gun fire

Orc loss very easily. If anyone read LOTR they would know why. If you are talking about Uruk-Hai like in the Movie, then they wins. These guys are physically stronger then Human in LOTR Universe(which are above average). They are excellent at taking orders, and will DIE for what must be done. The sheer number advantage and the amount of different weapons they have make their job a lot easier.

All they have to do is use the Powder/Explosives are detonate where ever they see fit. If any thing else, they just send a couple of hundred backed by Archers/crossbow men and they win. It's that easy !1

How much preptime do they get?

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
How much preptime do they get?

36 hours. A day and a half.

OK. Team Anti Hero in a stomp.

The team do it. Just imagine:

A massive group of orcs, and you just trow a rocket in the middle of it. How much orcs they would hurt with only one shot? And if they enter the castle, they all fought meta-human before and they are all expert in martial arts. They would stomp the shit out of the orcs.

Uruks have crossbows, don't they...?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Uruks have crossbows, don't they...?

facepalm

They shoot horses, don't they?

Doesn't really matter: They would run for they're life after the first grenades and rockets.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Doesn't really matter: They would run for they're life after the first grenades and rockets.
No, Orcs and uruk-Hai are mindless. They do not have will. They all serve the One Lord. What he commands, they must do

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
facepalm

What?

This is movie LOTR verse or Tolkien's original one?

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Doesn't really matter: They would run for they're life after the first grenades and rockets.

I thought they were fearless or was that just some of them?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
What?

This is movie LOTR verse or Tolkien's original one?

machine guns >>>> crossbows missle launchers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>crossbows


The movie.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
No, Orcs and uruk-Hai are mindless. They do not have will. They all serve the One Lord. What he commands, they must do

Didn't Sam succeed in scaring them in Cirith Ungol?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Didn't Sam succeed in scaring them in Cirith Ungol?
In the movie?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Didn't Sam succeed in scaring them in Cirith Ungol?

Werent those goblins, you talking about part 3 when Frodo got caught by the spider?

The Orcs win. 5 men aren't capable of holding off thousands. No matter how good their aim is. They are gonna tire out fairly soon due to the amount of Orcs they'd have to kill. It'd take all night and day.

The ninjas get slaughtered in seconds. The numbers advantage is just too much.

Originally posted by The Pict
The Orcs win. 5 men aren't capable of holding off thousands. No matter how good their aim is. They are gonna tire out fairly soon due to the amount of Orcs they'd have to kill. It'd take all night and day.

The ninjas get slaughtered in seconds. The numbers advantage is just too much.


Um land mines, rocket and grenade launchers, explosives. Some fo the killing doesnt involve them doing anything once they've set the traps.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I thought they were fearless or was that just some of them?



machine guns >>>> crossbows missle launchers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>crossbows


The movie.

Goblins are very cowardly, Orcs not so much, Uruks are quite brave... IMO.

Yes, I know... where did I say that the team lose? Just wanted to know if they have crossbows for this scenario, 'cause ranged attacks might be their only chance.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Goblins are very cowardly, Orcs not so much, Uruks are quite brave... IMO.

Yes, I know... where did I say that the team lose? Just wanted to know if they have crossbows for this scenario, 'cause ranged attacks might be their only chance.

Oh ok well they get what they had in the movie.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
In the movie?

Yes.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Werent those goblins, you talking about part 3 when Frodo got caught by the spider?

Yes. Those were Mordor Uruk-hai (different from Saruman ones).

Golbins = Moria Orcs

^ I swear those were goblins..

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Um land mines, rocket and grenade launchers, explosives. Some fo the killing doesnt involve them doing anything once they've set the traps.
It won't kill that many. Ten thousand is a huge number. If they stay out in the open, they risk getting hit by Crossbows, Balistas, and surrounded.

Besides, how many of those things do you think they can carry. They would kill about a few thousands.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
It won't kill that many. Ten thousand is a huge number. If they stay out in the open, they risk getting hit by Crossbows, Balistas, and surrounded.


No they wont because they would have planted the bomb a long away from the castle.

Originally posted by xJLxKing

Besides, how many of those things do you think they can carry. They would kill about a few thousands.

They wont neccesarily have to carry anything. Punisher most likely has a crap load of explosive. He had enough explosives to kill Ulik and thats only part of what he had, he also has great big filthy missle launchers. To be quite honest with you if you have enough explosives you could kill 10,000 the Orcs are actually carrying and explosive themselves which will get blown up.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Um land mines, rocket and grenade launchers, explosives. Some fo the killing doesnt involve them doing anything once they've set the traps.

So all the Orcs are going to continuously run over the mines, even after they realise what's happening? They aren't completely stupid, they'll set the mines off with their weapons, plus there's not gonna be that many. Punisher doesn't have a mine for every Orc in a single warehouse.

It doesn't matter about the superior weaponry, there are thousands of Orcs. They are gonna scale the walls fairly quickly. Castle doesn't have enough ammunition in one warehouse to kill 10,000 Orcs. Many of whom will fight on with injuries.

Plus while the defenders are reloading, changing weapons, moving to other parts of the wall (5 people can't cover every part of Helms Deep) Orcs are going to be scaling the castle.

No way are the Defenders winning. Not a chance.

If they have a day and half prep, Frank would already have planted explosives and land mines all around the area and directed the sharpshooters to strategically safe areas with unlimited ammo. Deadshot never misses, Bullseye can make anything a projectile, and so on.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
^ I swear those were goblins..

Sam's shadow scared Black Uruks, I'm sure of it. That happened after they had had a fight with normal orcs over that mythril shirt.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
If they have a day and half prep, Frank would already have planted explosives and land mines all around the area and directed the sharpshooters to strategically safe areas with unlimited ammo. Deadshot never misses, Bullseye can make anything a projectile, and so on.

Unlimited ammo?

1 warehouse can only hold so much. Besides is not like Castle crams every bullet he can in these places. His weapons/ammo are all boxed, hanging on racks etc. They don't have enough to kill 10,000 Orcs. End of story.

Originally posted by The Pict
So all the Orcs are going to continuously run over the mines, even after they realise what's happening? They aren't completely stupid, they'll set the mines off with their weapons, plus there's not gonna be that many.

Good point, movie uruks' pikes were incredibly long.

Arwen would enjoy it.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Good point, movie uruks' pikes were incredibly long.

Arwen would enjoy it.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Sam's shadow scared Black Uruks, I'm sure of it. That happened after they had had a fight with normal orcs over that mythril shirt.
Black Uruks=/= uruk-hai

Just like Gimli said it, "These are no ramble of mindless orcs, these are Uruk-hai"

Originally posted by The Pict
So all the Orcs are going to continuously run over the mines, even after they realise what's happening?




Theres only one way to the castle they have to go through it.


Originally posted by The Pict
They aren't completely stupid, they'll set the mines off with their weapons, plus there's not gonna be that many. Punisher doesn't have a mine for every Orc in a single warehouse.

He doesnt need to one land mine can take out several. 10 ( edit one landmine could kill several) landmines could take out several orc that means that 10 landmines could kill 100 ( oops my bad thats not 100 but depends on the potency 10 landmines could kill 20). Punisher probably has 100s of landmines and explosives.

Originally posted by The Pict

It doesn't matter about the superior weaponry, there are thousands of Orcs. They are gonna scale the walls fairly quickly. Castle doesn't have enough ammunition in one warehouse to kill 10,000 Orcs. Many of whom will fight on with injuries.

Plus while the defenders are reloading, changing weapons, moving to other parts of the wall (5 people can't cover every part of Helms Deep) Orcs are going to be scaling the castle.

No way are the Defenders winning. Not a chance.

Yeah he probably does have enough ammuniton. In Daughters of the Dragon we only see a small part of his stash in one part of his warehouse. There were most likely at least 100 guns, what looked like a missle launcher and a gattling gun.

Bare in mind that heroes were asking Pun for weapons hes not going to show them eveything he has. if 10 explosive can take out 100 whats 100s going to do?

Originally posted by The Pict
Unlimited ammo?

1 warehouse can only hold so much. Besides is not like Castle crams every bullet he can in these places. His weapons/ammo are all boxed, hanging on racks etc. They don't have enough to kill 10,000 Orcs. End of story. It may as well be unlimited, do you know how much he carries? And Flloyd carries?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Black Uruks=/= uruk-hai

Just like Gimli said it, "These are no ramble of mindless orcs, these are Uruk-hai"

Black Uruks =/= mindless orcs, either. At least in the movie verse. Shagrat actually survived that massacre and delivered the shirt to Mouth of Sauron. That's gotta count for something.

There are many ways. Uruks can climb it using ladders, or Ballistas, Mines, and going up the entrance. 5 Men can't cover all that.


Good speculation, but again, Uruk-hai are very smart, they know follow direct orders. If they know who they are attack, they will use a smart strategy.




Where is he going to keep all that. The enemy will be moving in, while he reloads. They will use their body, shields, and armor to soak the damage.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Black Uruks =/= mindless orcs, either. At least in the movie verse. Shagrat actually survived that massacre and delivered the shirt to Mouth of Sauron. That's gotta count for something.
The movies have it very different. Though, the movies is very very good.

They portray Orcs, and other creatures as if they have a mind of their own, however, they don't. Their every movement, and though(if they had any) are controlled by they one master. He orders them, and controls them

Originally posted by xJLxKing
There are many ways. Uruks can climb it using ladders, or Ballistas, Mines, and going up the entrance. 5 Men can't cover all that.



Er theres 155 men. Um in order to use the ladders they ahve to get through the ,mind field.

Originally posted by xJLxKing

Good speculation, but again, Uruk-hai are very smart, they know follow direct orders. If they know who they are attack, they will use a smart strategy.

Yeah? Ok explain it to me then.



Originally posted by xJLxKing

Where is he going to keep all that. The enemy will be moving in, while he reloads. They will use their body, shields, and armor to soak the damage.

What do you mean, hes planted the explosives before hand. I see so you think their armour and shield can absorb machine gunfire? Now you're being ridcoulous.

Men which will all get slaughtered in one attack from the crossbow. Keep in mind, 155 can't do any more then experts elf archer.


It's pretty simply. The Uruk-hai's aren't stupid. They know what to do. They just do it, they don't feel pain like humans. They are more physically durable, and stronger then regular humans.



So you have 1000 mines on the field that's coming to helms deep, you got 1000 more in Helms Deep, and you got a guy who doesn't need to reload any explosions.

It's pretty simple dude: The UHs are very durable. Even in the movie(not the same as the book), they soaked up damage. A Berserker was able to soak up a huge amount of arrows(about 4) with no armor and still running. A regular man would die in about one- two shots.

Don't forget, The archers in Helms Deep are very accurate. They rarely miss. They knew the enemy's weakness. They attacked their necks. Something the 5 men can't do.

Originally posted by xJLxKing

It's pretty simple dude: The UHs are very durable. Even in the movie(not the same as the book), they soaked up damage. A Berserker was able to soak up a huge amount of arrows(about 4) with no armor and still running. A regular man would die in about one- two shots.


Ok now you're wasting my time.

Arrows > maching gunfire. ...and hes telling me its simple...

*sigh* machine gunfire goes through brick walls and a standard klasnikov can go through a car door easily, their armour aint stopping shit. Shouldnt have to explain this.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok now you're wasting my time.

Arrows > maching gunfire. ...and hes telling me its simple...
I never said Arrow>Machine gun, but it will take a lot more then a few shots to kill a uruk-hai. They soak up damage from arrows with no arrow. An arrow would have stopped on their arrow(there is a huge gap between it). They have shields, and they can take meat shields.

Don't forget, the defenders don't have time to aim at their weak spots.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
It's pretty simple dude: The UHs are very durable. Even in the movie(not the same as the book), they soaked up damage. A Berserker was able to soak up a huge amount of arrows(about 4) with no armor and still running. A regular man would die in about one- two shots.

Which scene are you talking about? I only remember the Berserker with the torch taking two arrows from Legolas. Ofc it didn't stop him and he blew up the wall, but more projectiles could have made a difference... could it not?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Which scene are you talking about? I only remember the Berserker with the torch taking two arrows from Legolas. Ofc it didn't stop him and he blew up the wall, but more projectiles could have made a difference... could it not?
hmm. I though it was 4 shots. Well, then yeah, it was 2 shots(if you say so).

however, don't forget Lurts( he is a regular Uruk-Hai). His arm got cut, and he got stabbed in the stomach, and he still was fighting. Only when his head was chopped, he died.

Any ways, my point was, a uruk-hai with no armor was able to tank 2 shots+ more. He could have taken even more with a shield, armor, another dead body, and his durability.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
hmm. I though it was 4 shots. Well, then yeah, it was 2 shots(if you say so).

however, don't forget Lurts( he is a regular Uruk-Hai). His arm got cut, and he got stabbed in the stomach, and he still was fighting. Only when his head was chopped, he died.

Any ways, my point was, a uruk-hai with no armor was able to tank 2 shots+ more. He could have taken even more with a shield, armor, another dead body, and his durability.

Legolas shot him in the both trapezius muscles and he kept running, so that's impressive. Kingpin was recently immobilized by that (DD #116).

Lurtz* was badass and I'd say way better than regular Uruk. Think of Boromir and regular Dunedain... I think he might have been the first Uruk-hai in the movie or at least one of the first. Makoare's performance was great, by the way.

What I mean is, major heroes/villains always soak up a lot of damage... you'd call Gothmog a regular Orc, but even when he was handicapped and injured by Eowyn, it took combined efforts of Aragorn and Gimli to put him down for good.

Gothmog doesn't exist. The only gothmog there is, is a Leader of the Balrogs. Same goes with Lurts. He doesn't exist. The one Aragorn fought was a regular Uruk-Hai

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Gothmog doesn't exist. The only gothmog there is, is a Leader of the Balrogs. Same goes with Lurts. He doesn't exist. The one Aragorn fought was a regular Uruk-Hai

Yes, I know. Same about Sharku. Although Third Age Gothmog appeared in one sentence

Many Uruk hai were taken out by a single hit... comparing Lurtz with a regular Uruk is like comparing powerless Marc Spector with a regular athlete

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Gothmog,_Lieutenant_of_Morgul

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yes, I know. Same about Sharku. Although Third Age Gothmog appeared in one sentence

Many Uruk hai were taken out by a single hit... comparing Lurtz with a regular Uruk is like comparing powerless Marc Spector with a regular athlete

Lurts=regular Uruk

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Lurts=regular Uruk

Lurtz = peak Uruk ahah

Originally posted by The Pict

The ninjas get slaughtered in seconds.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Lurtz = peak Uruk ahah
He is imperfection

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Lurtz = peak Uruk ahah Also, the link you provided abou Gothmog, it says that the Author never truly said what he is. He does that a lot though

Ocs get pwned.

are people really arguing that uruks dont have fear?

lol what a load of bull. in both the movie and the books the uruks retreated after gandfalf and the riders arrived at helms deep and kicked their asses. the uruks retreated from helms deep into a forest full of Huorn, who promptly decimated every retreating uruk. not a single one of them escaped from the forest.

uruks retreat plenty when they realize that there is simply no hope in winning.

and stop overestimating them. one bullet would kill an uruk-hi. gimli killed one with one strike to the stomach. dont argue that an axe to the stomach delivers more kientic energy then a bullet from an assault rifle.

OK when I worked as an Ammo Troop you could put almost 10,000 20mm rounds on a single pallete. Now each Ammo box only holds 250 20mm rounds but it can hold around 3000 7.62 rounds (M16) To think that the Punishers Where house cant hold enough Ammo for only 10,000 Urakai(sic) is ridiculous I mean 1 pallet can hold almost 100,000 rounds of M16 ammo and another can hold 8,000 20mms which each could rip an Orc in half.Not to mention High explosives and RPGs hell claymore mines could easily take out more than 20 orcs a pop, this is no contest.

You dont even need the crew for the masses.Equip about 110 Hand and let the other 40 just work as load toads. 50 Hand ninjas with M16s can let off more than 1000 rounds in 30 seconds alot more in both number and killing power than any volley by the elves.Then put 30 with High powered Machine Guns and 20 with RPGs, Rocket Launchers and any other exotic weaponry the Punisher has and the Orc ranks start to take Heavy losses in a hurry.Hell you even have 10 left over to act as support in case any get killed by bowfire.

Punisher and Hawkey can just sit back with rocket launchers and take out seige weapons. While Solo ports to each Seige Ladder and takes them out with a grenade a piece. Bullseye can easily take out all the Orc Comanders.Deadshot will pick off Nay Beserkers coming at the Sewer entrance.

Given the open area and the massed formations of the Orcs I say the crew wins in less than 2 hours.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Good point, movie uruks' pikes were incredibly long.

Arwen would enjoy it.

Hey hey. Get your mind out'a the gutter son.

Oh and the armies of Christopher Lee win. Though they pay for it very dearly. Bullseye with an automatic........................

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Theres only one way to the castle they have to go through it.

Again they will set them off from a distance when they realise what's happening. They aren't going to continuously run over the mines. And again Castle isn't going to have that much in a single warehouse.




Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Theres only one way to the castle they have to go through it. He doesnt need to one land mine can take out several. 10 landmines could take out several orc that means that 10 landmines could kill 100. Punisher probably has 100s of landmines and explosives.

A single mine won't kill 10 Orcs every time facepalm How many REGULAR people in the real world survive mine blasts? A lot. That's why there's so many retired soldiers missing limbs, or kids in 3rd world countries missing their legs. The mines are going to kill of the smallest fraction of the army.



Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah he probably does have enough ammuniton. In Daughters of the Dragon we only see a small part of his stash in one part of his warehouse. There were most likely at least 100 guns, what looked like a missle launcher and a gattling gun.


Yeah well I've seen a lot of Frank's warehouse to and if you think he has enough to kill 10, 000 Orcs in a single warehouse you're on drugs or something. Not a chance.

Even if he did it wouldn't matter. There's 5 of them for god's sake. 5 people can't cover all of Helm's Deep. The thousands of Elves and Humans couldn't do it but you think 5 will? There were hundreds of arrows getting fired at the Orcs constantly and they still scaled the walls. The Human and Elves bows were doing more to dent the numbers than the rockets will,considering the spread of damage going to be done by 5 people.

Originally posted by Mindset


There's 150 ninjas. There's 10,000 Orcs. Do the math. The ninjas don't stand a chance.

Originally posted by The Pict
Again they will set them off from a distance when they realise what's happening. They aren't going to continuously run over the mines. And again Castle isn't going to have that much in a single warehouse.

How exactly are they setting them off from a distance? Depending on the mine they can be remotely detonated , need to have a significant weight to trigger the pressure plate or they can be hopping mines where the orcs will still sustain damage even if they manage to somehow set them off. Plus the Orcs dont exactly have mine sweepers or small ranks how do they know where the mines are and avoid them?




A single mine won't kill 10 Orcs every time facepalm How many REGULAR people in the real world survive mine blasts? A lot. That's why there's so many retired soldiers missing limbs, or kids in 3rd world countries missing their legs. The mines are going to kill of the smallest fraction of the army.

True but the Orcs arent in full body armor, dont have medical technology that even holds a cndle to what we had 60 years ago and are in close ranks that will be disrupted. Exactly what harm is a legless Orc going to do in a seige?



Yeah well I've seen a lot of Frank's warehouse to and if you think he has enough to kill 10, 000 Orcs in a single warehouse you're on drugs or something. Not a chance.

See my earlier post. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Even if he did it wouldn't matter. There's 5 of them for god's sake. 5 people can't cover all of Helm's Deep. The thousands of Elves and Humans couldn't do it but you think 5 will? There were hundreds of arrows getting fired at the Orcs constantly and they still scaled the walls. The Human and Elves bows were doing more to dent the numbers than the rockets will,considering the spread of damage going to be done by 5 people.

155 and you vastly underate the killing power of assault rifles vs longbows. They have a higher firing rate can cover a longer distance and dont have shafts that can seal the wounds a hunderd ninjas spaced out can cover the same ground with more kills and greater effectiveness than all the archers. Plus those humans and elves held for almost a full day!

There's 150 ninjas. There's 10,000 Orcs. Do the math. The ninjas don't stand a chance.

you greatly overestimate the size of the army. In the movie I remember tGimlet and Legolas counting off kills and I believe they were up to like 48 or 49 a piece. Thats 2 warrions that took out 1% of the Orc army with just melee attacks. You think that a trained ninja with guns couldnt easily match that?

Originally posted by The Pict
Again they will set them off from a distance when they realise what's happening. They aren't going to continuously run over the mines. And again Castle isn't going to have that much in a single warehouse.



Ok but Frank doesnt have to go for that option he can wait for them to cover the land mines then set them off. Frank is smarter than and Orc and hes going to outsmart them.



Originally posted by The Pict

A single mine won't kill 10 Orcs every time facepalm How many REGULAR people in the real world survive mine blasts? A lot. That's why there's so many retired soldiers missing limbs, or kids in 3rd world countries missing their legs. The mines are going to kill of the smallest fraction of the army.

Do you see how I mentioned that if they dont have any legs they cant fight? Also Punisher was going to use a relatively small amount of explosives to kill Ulik. That amount of explosives would kill alot of Orcs and he has tons more most likely.



Originally posted by The Pict

Yeah well I've seen a lot of Frank's warehouse to and if you think he has enough to kill 10, 000 Orcs in a single warehouse you're on drugs or something. Not a chance.

You're entitled to have an opinion, but please try not to ignore the point being raised. Now im going to make the point again please try to address the point instead of merely stating your opinion without a reason. The point is that in one room in one small part of his warhouse it looked as if he had enough machine guns to arm 150 Hand ninjas and there was also what looked like a rocket launcher and a gattling gun. Now heres the important part considering that it was just a small part of the warehouse and Pun isnt going to show them everything hes got, how much more stuff do you think he has?


Originally posted by The Pict

Even if he did it wouldn't matter. There's 5 of them for god's sake. 5 people can't cover all of Helm's Deep. The thousands of Elves and Humans couldn't do it but you think 5 will? There were hundreds of arrows getting fired at the Orcs constantly and they still scaled the walls. The Human and Elves bows were doing more to dent the numbers than the rockets will,considering the spread of damage going to be done by 5 people.

Why are you lowballing for? Theres 155 with much better equipment. You know how many people a gattling gun can kill? There were in fact 2000 approx seems I got part of my facts wrong, if I knew it was that much I would have increased the numbers. One gattling gun could kill 100s of Orcs and we havent even got onto missle and grenade launchers.

Umm, do Hand ninja's use guns?

I mean, if we've never seen them use gun's before, there's no proof they're actually a good shot....



Very different types of damage. An axe blow to the stomach would tear through your torso. Depending on where that hits you it could gut you, sever any of the four gastric arteries, rupture your stomach lining etc.

While a bullet would penetrate further, possibly creating an exit wound, you'd be more likely to keep on fighting than if some carved out your intestines. I mean, the army want to use curved rounds and other crippling bullets more because people who had been shot by penetrating rounds get back up again.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Umm, do Hand ninja's use guns?

I mean, if we've never seen them use gun's before, there's no proof they're actually a good shot....



Very different types of damage. An axe blow to the stomach would tear through your torso. Depending on where that hits you it could gut you, sever any of the four gastric arteries, rupture your stomach lining etc.

While a bullet would penetrate further, possibly creating an exit wound, you'd be more likely to keep on fighting than if some carved out your intestines. I mean, the army want to use curved rounds and other crippling bullets more because people who had been shot by penetrating rounds get back up again.

Though I cant recall any instances of the Hand using guns they have used arrows blowguns and shiruken. Not the same thing but it shows they do have some skill in targeting and tracking . With the tight ranks the Orcs are keeping they dont need to be the best of shots. And they have more than enough ammo so its not like it has to be one shot one kill.

Originally posted by Obadiah Horn
you greatly overestimate the size of the army. In the movie I remember tGimlet and Legolas counting off kills and I believe they were up to like 48 or 49 a piece. Thats 2 warrions that took out 1% of the Orc army with just melee attacks. You think that a trained ninja with guns couldnt easily match that?

Gimli - 43

Legolas - 42

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Gimli - 43

Legolas - 42
I still can't believe Gimli won that one.

You are kidding. First of all, We don't know the amount of strenght Gimli put in his axe. They aren't human. Also, Human can survive a hit from a Bullet; even if it hit the stomach. Also, the shooter in this instance is surrounded, so he won't have time to aim and then shoot. He will be basically shooting blindly at Uruk-hai who have Shields, armor, and meatshield.


So?? I give up playing Basketball against my friend when he has a huge lead. Does that mean I am scared, or I have no will to fight on.



They are slaves. Since I read LOTR, The Silmarillion, and Hobbits when I was like 14-16 and I could not under well. Still don't actually!

Either way, from what I remember:

There are Goblins which are cave orcs.
There are Orcs which are the main breed.
Uruk Hai which are Aryan Orcs (Racially superior and all that.)
Half Orcs are part Orc and Part Human

They all serve Sauron, and they have no will. What he commands, they must do. They "might" have fear, but it doesn't stop them.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I still can't believe Gimli won that one.

You are kidding. First of all, We don't know the amount of strenght Gimli put in his axe. They aren't human. Also, Human can survive a hit from a Bullet; even if it hit the stomach. Also, the shooter in this instance is surrounded, so he won't have time to aim and then shoot. He will be basically shooting blindly at Uruk-hai who have Shields, armor, and meatshield.


So?? I give up playing Basketball against my friend when he has a huge lead. Does that mean I am scared, or I have no will to fight on.



They are slaves. Since I read LOTR, The Silmarillion, and Hobbits when I was like 14-16 and I could not under well. Still don't actually!

Either way, from what I remember:

There are Goblins which are cave orcs.
There are Orcs which are the main breed.
Uruk Hai which are Aryan Orcs (Racially superior and all that.)
Half Orcs are part Orc and Part Human

They all serve Sauron, and they have no will. What he commands, they must do. They "might" have fear, but it doesn't stop them.

Could you please try not to take the piss. eg we dont know how much strength gimili put into it and assuming the guys will be surrounded.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Could you please try not to take the piss. eg we dont know how much strength gimili put into it and assuming the guys will be surrounded.
What I mean is, you don't know how much strength he put compared to a Human. He even wanted to compare a strike from a axe and a bullet which is different.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
What I mean is, you don't know how much strength he put compared to a Human. He even wanted to compare a strike from a axe and a bullet which is different.

Im sorry thats not a very good point. Gimli maybe stronger than an average human but hes not superhuman or peak human. The point is that if an axe to the stomache can kill them they dont have some unusual amazing resistance to damage. So therefore bullets should put them down. Hell im pretty sure I saw humans killing Orcs and they didnt have to chop their heads off.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Im sorry thats not a very good point. Gimli maybe stronger than an average human but hes not superhuman or peak human. The point is that if an axe to the stomache can kill them they dont have some unusual amazing resistance to damage. So therefore bullets should put them down. Hell im pretty sure I saw humans killing Orcs and they didnt have to chop their heads off.
Orc aren't the same as Uruk-Hai, I already posted that.

Also, an axe and a bullet are two different things. They work differently. For example, Gimli cleaved a Orc's head off using a Axe. can you do it using a Bullet? Of course not.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Orc aren't the same as Uruk-Hai, I already posted that.

I couldnt be arsed to type Uruk-hai, yes im pretty sure I saw humans killing Uruk-hai.


Originally posted by xJLxKing
Also, an axe and a bullet are two different things. They work differently. For example, Gimli cleaved a Orc's head off using a Axe. can you do it using a Bullet? Of course not.

You're not getting it. The claim is being made that they are super resistant to injury if they can die from somebody who doesnt neccsarily have superhuman strength they are not going to have super resistance to bullets.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I couldnt be arsed to type Uruk-hai, yes im pretty sure I saw humans killing Uruk-hai.

Even Peter Jackson killed one shocklaugh

Of course they kill them. It's war. Uruk-hai aren't unbeatable.


Again, PROVE that gimli has strenght like a Human. So far, they as much as human are Orcs are Human. They are resiliant to temperature, they are short, believed to have no woman dwarf, and live so much more.

Not only that, but in the LOTRverse, Human aren' really just like us. They too live longer lives. I am not sure but wasn't Aragorn like 175, or something like that when he died?

read the part about "nature"
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Dwarves

Aragorn wasn't a regular human....

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Not only that, but in the LOTRverse, Human aren' really just like us. They too live longer lives. I am not sure but wasn't Aragorn like 175, or something like that when he died?

Aragorn wasn't a normal human, he was a Dunedain. Theoden was "just a man".

BTW Aragorn was 87. He stated that in TT extended version.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Aragorn wasn't a normal human, he was a Dunedain. Theoden was "just a man".
Dunedain is a country, is it not? Or was it something like Gondorian? Forgot!


Either way, he was Human, but not like us Human.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
BTW Aragorn was 87. He stated that in TT extended version.
I don't know what you are talking about. He died ar again 210! Go check it out!!

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I don't know what you are talking about. He died ar again 210! Go check it out!!

He was 80 around the movies...

And he lived to 210.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
He was 80 around the movies...

And he lived to 210.
Exactly, so they aren't exactly like us. There are differences.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Of course they kill them. It's war. Uruk-hai aren't unbeatable.



Please try not to get the point. The point is that they are not super resistant to injury.

Originally posted by xJLxKing

Again, PROVE that gimli has strenght like a Human. So far, they as much as human are Orcs are Human. They are resiliant to temperature, they are short, believed to have no woman dwarf, and live so much more.

Well for starters he wasnt able to push a warf rider off him and was struggling or needed help afterwards to get free. This thread is based on the film I dont think I need to read anything.


Originally posted by xJLxKing
Not only that, but in the LOTRverse, Human aren' really just like us. They too live longer lives. I am not sure but wasn't Aragorn like 175, or something like that when he died?

So you're average human warrior lives to 175?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Exactly, so they aren't exactly like us. There are differences.

Most of them are....Theoden is.

Aragorn is not.

I never said Super. All i said was more resistant then Human, which so far proves my point.


Lol! First of all, he snapped the guys neck easily. Second of all, that Warg was very heavy. Even in the movie, they look bigger then Cow. Lets see a human do that.


In LOTR, it seems like it.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Most of them are....Theoden is.

Aragorn is not.
What are you talking about.

Rohan is part of Gondor, the same kind of people. They just broke apart, but at the end, a King returns and puts it all back.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Dunedain is a country, is it not? Or was it something like Gondorian? Forgot!


Either way, he was Human, but not like us Human.

Numenor was a country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunedain

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I don't know what you are talking about. He died ar again 210! Go check it out!!

That's right. I meant that he was 87 in TT.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I never said Super. All i said was more resistant then Human, which so far proves my point.

Which isnt enough to make a difference.


Originally posted by xJLxKing
Lol! First of all, he snapped the guys neck easily. Second of all, that Warg was very heavy. Even in the movie, they look bigger then Cow. Lets see a human do that.


The point is he didnt do anything beyond what a human could do.

Originally posted by xJLxKing

In LOTR, it seems like it.

So you have a list of the ages of the warriors in helms deep and how long they lived?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
What are you talking about.

Rohan is part of Gondor, the same kind of people. They just broke apart, but at the end, a King returns and puts it all back.

I don't know the full story, but Theoden wasn't Dunedain, that's for sure.

In the movie, a berserker took two shots from a bow. He kept on going like it was nothing. Also, they have armor, shields, and could even use meat shields.


Even though I already proved, and post a website where it says they are Super "strong". Or something like that.


My point is, you don't know how Human in Lort are compared to us. They live longer. They also have a few other traits different from us.

Aragorn was 87 in TT, did he even look like 87? Of course not!

Eowyn was shocked when she found out Aragorn was Dunedain... they're quite rare and can't be confused with normal humans, really.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Dunedains are the descendents of the survivors from The Fall of Numenor, who travelled across after it fell into the ocean, but not every human in middle Earth decends from the Numenoreans...

That's why Eowyn was shocked by Aragorn saying he was 87...
They all are part Dunedain!!

Originally posted by xJLxKing
They all are part Dunedain!!

The Rohirrim are descended from the Eotheod who themselves were Northmen not really the same as the Dunedain.

Amongst the Dunedain themselves there are many classes and 'ranks'. By the War of the Ring the Rangers of the North (eg Aragorn) were basically the most elite remnant of the Dunedain line.

Guys such as Faramir and Boromir and the Southern Rangers were still Dunedain but weren't quite the same in superiority as Aragorn etc. Both lived longer than other human races (i.e the Rohirrim). I'm pretty sure Faramir was in his 100s when he died.

The Rohirrim were not Dunedain the way you are saying.

Originally posted by Warrior18
The Rohirrim are descended from the Eotheod who themselves were Northmen not really the same as the Dunedain.

Amongst the Dunedain themselves there are many classes and 'ranks'. By the War of the Ring the Rangers of the North (eg Aragorn) were basically the most elite remnant of the Dunedain line.

Guys such as Faramir and Boromir and the Southern Rangers were still Dunedain but weren't quite the same in superiority as Aragorn etc. Both lived longer than other human races (i.e the Rohirrim). I'm pretty sure Faramir was in his 100s when he died.

The Rohirrim were not Dunedain the way you are saying.
No, I think you missing the point. Rohan and Gondor was once the same.
Some people are mixed which is why they don't live as long. Aragorn line wasn't mixed( as much, or at all). So in a way, they are all somewhat Dunedains.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
No, I think you missing the point. Rohan and Gondor was once the same.
Some people are mixed which is why they don't live as long. Aragorn line wasn't mixed( as much, or at all). So in a way, they are all somewhat Dunedains.

No it wasn't. The Eothed were granted the land which would eventually be called Rohan in 2510 by Gondor as a reward for military aid. The land they were given was a province of Gondor called Calenadhon. Originally they came from the land between the Carrock and the Gladden but they left there in TA 1977.

Just because they would live within a province of Gondor doesn't in the slightest make them the Dunedain you claimed them to be.

You claimed all the Rohirrim warriors at Helms Deep were all men who lived incredibly long and were granted the perks of being a Dunedain. This is wrong. The Rohirrim lived to about 70 or 80 and simply were not the Dunedain who lived long or were superior in mind, body and spirit.

In other words a completely different race of men with little to no common ancestry.

Still take the team. It would be like 300, but with less men, with ****in firepower and kickass martial arts.

The orcs wouldn't even know what's happening between two genades and a punch in the face.

And don't forget: If a dwarf and an elfe can kill nearly 100 orcs by themselves, how many orcs Bulleyes and the Punisher would they kill with some machine guns, grenades, toothpick, etc?

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6303/daredevilthetargetbk01182qe.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2738/daredevilthetargetbk01198dr.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5425/daredevilthetargetbk01208ll.jpg

Originally posted by Warrior18
No it wasn't. The Eothed were granted the land which would eventually be called Rohan in 2510 by Gondor as a reward for military aid. The land they were given was a province of Gondor called Calenadhon. Originally they came from the land between the Carrock and the Gladden but they left there in TA 1977.

Just because they would live within a province of Gondor doesn't in the slightest make them the Dunedain you claimed them to be.

You claimed all the Rohirrim warriors at Helms Deep were all men who lived incredibly long and were granted the perks of being a Dunedain. This is wrong. The Rohirrim lived to about 70 or 80 and simply were not the Dunedain who lived long or were superior in mind, body and spirit.

In other words a completely different race of men with little to no common ancestry.
Yes it was. Gondorians kept referring to them as Middle men who were distantly related to them.

Also, I am not 100% sure, but did Gondorians and Rohirrim like get mixed which is why some were very old?

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Still take the team. It would be like 300, but with less men, with ****in firepower and kickass martial arts.

The orcs wouldn't even know what's happening between two genades and a punch in the face.

And don't forget: If a dwarf and an elfe can kill nearly 100 orcs by themselves, how many orcs Bulleyes and the Punisher would they kill with some machine guns, grenades, toothpick, etc?

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6303/daredevilthetargetbk01182qe.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2738/daredevilthetargetbk01198dr.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5425/daredevilthetargetbk01208ll.jpg
Where are they going to stay if they are using Machine gun? On top of a wall where hundreds if not thousand of arrows, and others weapons will be hitting them?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Yes it was. Gondorians kept referring to them as Middle men who were distantly related to them.


No. They were not. The Rohirrim's ancetsors were an essentially separate people (their true ancestral homelands were in Rhovanion) who migrated to and/or lived in Gondorian territory.

Emphasis on distant. I suppose the equivalent would be evolutionary relation to humans and chimps.

Besides I'm pretty sure Tolkien himself stated the referring to the Rohirrim as Middle Men was simply self serving fiction or propaganda on behalf the Numernoreans.




Originally posted by xJLxKing

Also, I am not 100% sure, but did Gondorians and Rohirrim like get mixed which is why some were very old?

Well Dunedain thinning the bloodline with lesser men would shorten the lifespan not lengthen it.........................

The Rohirrim and everybody else save the Dunedain(even then only the purer ones) were essentially ordinary. They had normal lifespans and didn't have the typical higher Dunedain attributes.

Of course individuals were shown to have the capacity to mix,Faramir married Eowyn after all, but not really what you were saying. You were implying that the Rohirrim were rife with traces of Dunedain blood which would imply a recent common ancestry between the two, which there isn't.

Yeah, it would shorten the lifespam of Dunedain, but not Rohirrim(which still should have blood of Dunedain); It would increase theirs.


Like I said, when I read LORT, and the other ones, I was 15-16(2 years ago), I barely understood it. Either way, I am pretty sure it was stated that they view them as distant, but they are still from the same tree.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Yeah, it would shorten the lifespam of Dunedain, but not Rohirrim(which still should have blood of Dunedain); It would increase theirs.


Like I said, when I read LORT, and the other ones, I was 15-16(2 years ago), I barely understood it. Either way, I am pretty sure it was stated that they view them as distant, but they are still from the same tree.

1. Would it? Did it? Any evidence of the Rohirrim with abnormally long lifespans?

2.By that I guess you mean the three main books. Fellowship,Two Towers and the Return of the King? Thing is the tonnes of other works which elaborate on the histories explain things easier and in more detail.

The distance of relation is practically primordial and still had no bearing on the physicality or biology of the Rohirrim at Helms Deep. Which is what I've been saying.

Originally posted by Warrior18
1. Would it? Did it? Any evidence of the Rohirrim with abnormally long lifespans?

2.By that I guess you mean the three main books. Fellowship,Two Towers and the Return of the King? Thing is the tonnes of other works which elaborate on the histories explain things easier and in more detail.

The distance of relation is practically primordial and still had no bearing on the physicality or biology of the Rohirrim at Helms Deep. Which is what I've been saying.
1. It's a gene, just like how Dunedain's like was shorten, a Rihirrim would increase.

2. NO I also read hobbit(but at that time I didn't know it was related to LOTR), and I also read Simllirion, or whatever it's spelled. It was hard to understand though. That entire thing with Miars, Eru, Valars...etc

Frank at the front door with the machine gun, Deadshot with the bazooka, Bulleyes with the toothpick and the ninjas will keep the orcs away of the wall.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Frank at the front door with the machine gun, Deadshot with the bazooka, Bulleyes with the toothpick and the ninjas will keep the orcs away of the wall.
Again. they are uruk-hais.

Any ways, that formation is not bad. Except one thing. One volley of arrows will kill all the ninjas.
Also, I doubt a machine gun would go through shield, armor, a body, and shield to get to the target.
One balista could also damage them, if not kill them. Don't forget, they 150 ninjas WILL not cover the wall. They can try, but they won't. They will be separated from each other.

Elite Elfs, and Rohirrim soldier couldn't keep them off for more then a few minutes. I doubt 150 ninja's can do anything.

urukhai are not extra durable wtf are you talking about?

the ONLY true sign of "durabiltiy" that you keep repeating over and over again is pointless. oh meh godz the beserker took two shots. where were these shots? in the freakin SHOULDERS. the beserkers only job was to run in a straight line. taking two arrows to the shoulders isnt going to mean anything at all. boromir took three arrows to the chest and kept on fighting by himself which means that arrows ultimately arent that big of a deal at all anyway.

i dont know who wins but can the pro lotr peopel actually KNOW what theyre talking about? how many of you have read the simarillion and the books recently?

me books read

good is books me readed

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Again. they are uruk-hais.

Any ways, that formation is not bad. Except one thing. One volley of arrows will kill all the ninjas.
Also, I doubt a machine gun would go through shield, armor, a body, and shield to get to the target.
One balista could also damage them, if not kill them. Don't forget, they 150 ninjas WILL not cover the wall. They can try, but they won't. They will be separated from each other.

Elite Elfs, and Rohirrim soldier couldn't keep them off for more then a few minutes. I doubt 150 ninja's can do anything.

Again, it depends wich type of machine guns and wich type of armor...

Or what about that: They have 36 hours prep, right? They destroy all the bridges and puts mines in the ground. After that, they shoot anyone. For the arrows, they could built a roof... I don't know, lol. After all, they are ninjas! The next best thing after pirates.

Originally posted by WO Polaski
urukhai are not extra durable wtf are you talking about?

the ONLY true sign of "durabiltiy" that you keep repeating over and over again is pointless. oh meh godz the beserker took two shots. where were these shots? in the freakin SHOULDERS. the beserkers only job was to run in a straight line. taking two arrows to the shoulders isnt going to mean anything at all. boromir took three arrows to the chest and kept on fighting by himself which means that arrows ultimately arent that big of a deal at all anyway.

i dont know who wins but can the pro lotr peopel actually KNOW what theyre talking about? how many of you have read the simarillion and the books recently?

Uruks are superhuman durable, that's common knowledge. To quote Saruman, "You know no pain, you know no fear (...)".

Boromir is a Dunedain.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Uruks are superhuman durable, that's common knowledge. To quote Saruman, "You know no pain, you know no fear (...)".

Boromir is a Dunedain.

"You know no pain, you know no fear (...)"

That doesnt make them any more durable in the fact that thay cant be damaged and killed by simple means such as a arrow or sword.

Won't the team tire after some time? 10.000 is a lot of people to slay. Before they are dead, the team might be exhausted. Especially since they will run out of ammo after about one thousand or three dead.

Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
Won't the team tire after some time? 10.000 is a lot of people to slay. Before they are dead, the team might be exhausted. Especially since they will run out of ammo after about one thousand or three dead. 1000s of orcs can be killed with booby traps. 1 gatling gun can kill 100s.

Meh, mines alone wouldn't be that useful, it would be c4 and stuff that will get kills.

Anti Personnal mines are designed to injure people wearing stuff like kevlar, not kill them, thats why they're banned under Geneva Convention.

And steel plate armour would probably survive just as well in such a situation...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Uruks are superhuman durable, that's common knowledge. To quote Saruman, "You know no pain, you know no fear (...)".

Boromir is a Dunedain.

sarumon isnt the omniscient narrator. what he says doesnt actually mean anything. proof from the canon books show that urukhai run when theyre getting beaten and can be killed by single slashes and stabs just like everyone else. and the dunedain are not superhuman, they only live longer like the elves. if you want to keep making these statements provide actual proof from the books or get out. your sentiments are ridiculous no offense.

Originally posted by WO Polaski
sarumon isnt the omniscient narrator. what he says doesnt actually mean anything. proof from the canon books show that urukhai run when theyre getting beaten and can be killed by single slashes and stabs just like everyone else. and the dunedain are not superhuman, they only live longer like the elves. if you want to keep making these statements provide actual proof from the books or get out. your sentiments are ridiculous no offense.
Obviously they run, but they aren't scared. They run because they can't win. Would you not do the same?
Also, it common knownledge that Uruk-hai are very stronger. They are very durable, they don't get tired as easily as Human, orc, or even goblins(almost the same as Uruks).

A fetal hit from a Axe, sword, or arrow would kill anyone superman human. It would probably kill Spiderman, Captain America, Batman..etc. It will even kill a Uruk.

Dunedains are actually more experienced, they have valor, are brave..etc. All this adds to their strength.



1 Gatling Gun would give hundreds, but where are they going to hide when a volley of arrow comes to them?
Booby traps vary, if you want to say it can kill 1000s(which is absurd), then you have to prove that it can. I don't know if there is a booby trap that can kill thousands of people, and if there is I doubt Frank or anyone has it.

I already think they can do but there are other avenues. LIke blowing up the side of the moutain and burring a bunch of orcs... or even collapsing a wall on top of the orcs. OR just using lighting the wole field on fire with napalhm.

Again a coupe chaingun built out of a stone window, not much orcs can do about that but hope to hit a very small target very far away.

Again The team takes this it's just gonna take a while.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
I already think they can do but there are other avenues. LIke blowing up the side of the moutain and burring a bunch of orcs... or even collapsing a wall on top of the orcs. OR just using lighting the wole field on fire with napalhm.

Again a coupe chaingun built out of a stone window, not much orcs can do about that but hope to hit a very small target very far away.

Again The team takes this it's just gonna take a while.
Suddenly, there is a window.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
I already think they can do but there are other avenues. LIke blowing up the side of the moutain and burring a bunch of orcs... or even collapsing a wall on top of the orcs. OR just using lighting the wole field on fire with napalhm.

Again a coupe chaingun built out of a stone window, not much orcs can do about that but hope to hit a very small target very far away.

Again The team takes this it's just gonna take a while.

You got a point one thing I stated was that it was a castle full of items that you would find in a castle. Im sure there would be alot of oil ,mix that with gunpowder and im sure they can think of something.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Suddenly, there is a window.

have you ever seen a ****ing castle before?

In most castles there are almost always windows so archers an shoot out of and not get hit. You think the team is just gonna stand out side where there is no cover on top of some spire shooting down??

Or do you think there are no such tactical windows in all of helms deep supposedly the strongest defended city in the whole damn story.

Okay lets just say for some crazy ass reason the designer of Helms deep decided that windows was not in fashion and the ovious benefits of being able to shoot out of window and not get hit by enemy just seemed too good to be true.

Their are sheilds, would be no problem for the tam to find a way to prop a few shield over themselves.


Like really no windows??!!! wtf

Originally posted by Lord Feron
have you ever seen a ****ing castle before?

In most castles there are almost always windows so archers an shoot out of and not get hit. You think the team is just gonna stand out side where there is no cover on top of some spire shooting down??

Or do you think there are no such tactical windows in all of helms deep supposedly the strongest defended city in the whole damn story.

Okay lets just say for some crazy ass reason the designer of Helms deep decided that windows was not in fashion and the ovious benefits of being able to shoot out of window and not get hit by enemy just seemed too good to be true.

Their are sheilds, would be no problem for the tam to find a way to prop a few shield over themselves.


Like really no windows??!!! wtf
There a difference between a castle, and a stronghold/fortress.

Did you ever see Helms deep in the movie? No windows! Not from what I seen.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
have you ever seen a ****ing castle before?

In most castles there are almost always windows so archers an shoot out of and not get hit. You think the team is just gonna stand out side where there is no cover on top of some spire shooting down??

Or do you think there are no such tactical windows in all of helms deep supposedly the strongest defended city in the whole damn story.

Okay lets just say for some crazy ass reason the designer of Helms deep decided that windows was not in fashion and the ovious benefits of being able to shoot out of window and not get hit by enemy just seemed too good to be true.

Their are sheilds, would be no problem for the tam to find a way to prop a few shield over themselves.


Like really no windows??!!! wtf

LOL JLX is just making posters say WTF all over.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
There a difference between a castle, and a stronghold/fortress.

Did you ever see Helms deep in the movie? No windows! Not from what I seen.

Like he said shield formation like the Romans.

So now they have shield. Okay! Well you might as well give them a Hydrogen Bomb since you want them to win so badly.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
So now they have shield. Okay! Well you might as well give them a Hydrogen Bomb since you want them to win so badly.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

4. Castle full of stuff you would find in a castle....no pun intended. My crew already know where everything is located before prep starts.

.

facepalm

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
facepalm
So in addition to having all sorts of grenades, guns, bombs, traps, they now have a castle full of weapons.

Well it can help them out but I still don't see how they can win. They are going to make a square formation on top of the wall, and a Gatling gun in the center shooting. If they do that, it will still make them vulnerable to Balistas, and increase the chances of Uruks getting to them quicker.

The Ninja's will still die from a volley or arrows. Where are the others going to stay??

Windows and stuff were there

Originally posted by mrcharlieo
Windows and stuff were there Those aren't windows. Some of them don't have an opening.

The top can not be reached. However, if you want to say it can, then a good Balista would destroy it and killing anyone in it.

the wooden things on hinges could definately block incoming arrows, as for balista's I imagine they would eliminate those and other heavy weapons first to minimise the effectivness of the attacking army, and seeing as they would supposedly have rocket launchers I don't see that being a problem.

As for the volley of arrows wiping out the ninjas quickly, I don't recall the orcs/uruk-whatevers actually firing a volley of arrows at any point during the battle in the movie (haven't read the books), the elves fired volley's the other guys just had a few crossbows and fired about 8 times that we saw.

Originally posted by mrcharlieo
the wooden things on hinges could definately block incoming arrows, as for balista's I imagine they would eliminate those and other heavy weapons first to minimise the effectivness of the attacking army, and seeing as they would supposedly have rocket launchers I don't see that being a problem.

As for the volley of arrows wiping out the ninjas quickly, I don't recall the orcs/uruk-whatevers actually firing a volley of arrows at any point during the battle in the movie (haven't read the books), the elves fired volley's the other guys just had a few crossbows and fired about 8 times that we saw.
They fired crossbows at them.

Also, Balista have a huge range. Also, if they focus on killing them first. The soldiers will get to the keep very quickly.

Helms deep was held by 2,000 old men and kids for 1 night, and 100-200 elves I believe. 2,000 in the books in the movie its 300.

NInja's arent gonna be standing around outside getting hit was random arrows.

As for ballitas yeah that might be a problem but I'm seriously banking of bullseye shooting ballitas out of the sky and changing the trajectory.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
ballitas yeah that might be a problem

What are those?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
What are those?
So you don't know and you have been arguing against them. Nice!!
It's a weapon created by Saruman. It's a huge crossbow, something like catapult, but less damage; it however, does have more accuracy. Here is a picture
https://www.silversnail.com/images/gold/full/action0002229.jpg


Now to prove my point. Look at this video. There was over 800+ arrows flying at them non-stop. It didn't even stop them. Look how much ladders they have going up. Don't forget, you can't kick those ladders down easily.

Here is a Ballista in action. It's at 5:40.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9SQn0qDd1g&feature=related

Originally posted by Lord Feron
NInja's arent gonna be standing around outside getting hit was random arrows.

As for ballitas yeah that might be a problem but I'm seriously banking of bullseye shooting ballitas out of the sky and changing the trajectory.

Okay, so Bulleyes will be destroying Balista(which I doubt he could easily). The Handninja's will be hiding? What about the 10,000 Uruk-Hai that are scaling the walls and using that explosive device?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
So you don't know and you have been arguing against them. Nice!!
It's a weapon created by Saruman. It's a huge crossbow, something like catapult, but less damage; it however, does have more accuracy. Here is a picture
https://www.silversnail.com/images/gold/full/action0002229.jpg

I think it the first you mentioned it to me. Anyway I remember those.

Originally posted by xJLxKing

Now to prove my point. Look at this video. There was over 800+ arrows flying at them non-stop. It didn't even stop them. Look how much ladders they have going up. Don't forget, you can't kick those ladders down easily.

Here is a Ballista in action. It's at 5:40.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9SQn0qDd1g&feature=related

Doesnt change anything.


Originally posted by xJLxKing
Okay, so Bulleyes will be destroying Balista(which I doubt he could easily). The Handninja's will be hiding? What about the 10,000 Uruk-Hai that are scaling the walls and using that explosive device?

*sigh* There wont be 10,000 by the time they reach the wall.

No, I mentioned it quite a lot, it just you don't reason, You just want your side to win so badly.


Actually, it does; it changed things a lot. Since someone said, Bulleyes will bet at the Hornburg(or the tower), it will be getting hitting by Balistas. If there is any one on the wall, they would die from a volley of arrows.
If someone tries to make a formation with shields blocking them, then the Uruks will scale the walls pretty easily. Remember, they can scale using the ladders, or Ballistas. Their shield, armor, and meat shields will protect them enough for them to get to the Gate where they can easily break it.
There is also so much they can do to them. They might have the ammo, but they serisouly get out numbered easily.

The hand ninjas would be shooting the shit out of the orcs and when they do come over the wall they would be massacred. lets say there were 30 ladders or something. ONe or 2 ninjas at each spot to kill orcs as they come up one by one...

By the way mere spelling mistake ballitas / Balista. Don't get all uppity.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
The hand ninjas would be shooting the shit out of the orcs and when they do come over the wall they would be massacred. lets say there were 30 ladders or something. ONe or 2 ninjas at each spot to kill orcs as they come up one by one...

By the way mere spelling mistake ballitas / Balista. Don't get all uppity.
So now you allow the Ninja's to use guns too???

There were more ladders then that.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
No, I mentioned it quite a lot, it just you don't reason, You just want your side to win so badly.


I know what is, just not the name.

Originally posted by xJLxKing

Actually, it does; it changed things a lot. Since someone said, Bulleyes will bet at the Hornburg(or the tower), it will be getting hitting by Balistas. If there is any one on the wall, they would die from a volley of arrows.
If someone tries to make a formation with shields blocking them, then the Uruks will scale the walls pretty easily. Remember, they can scale using the ladders, or Ballistas. Their shield, armor, and meat shields will protect them enough for them to get to the Gate where they can easily break it.
There is also so much they can do to them. They might have the ammo, but they serisouly get out numbered easily.

It would help for staters if you knew that shields cant block machine gunfire

Originally posted by xJLxKing
So now you allow the Ninja's to use guns too???



Of course.

So you should know how accurate and dangerous they are.



Of course not, but I think Armor, Shield, and meat shield would be enough to stop a gun.


So you changed the rules? Why did you say Hand Ninja's and not 150 men?? obviously, you did not want the ninjas to use guns. Why? Because you said standard equipment.

Also, if you want you side to win so badly, then just change the rules.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
So you should know how accurate and dangerous they are.


Yeah and I know they get blown up.

Originally posted by xJLxKing

Of course not, but I think Armor, Shield, and meat shield would be enough to stop a gun.

Why would it when machine gun bullets can go easily through a car door and kill the person sitting on the other side?

Originally posted by xJLxKing

So you changed the rules? Why did you say Hand Ninja's and not 150 men?? obviously, you did not want the ninjas to use guns. Why? Because you said standard equipment.

Also, if you want you side to win so badly, then just change the rules.

I said at the beginning they get a warehouse full of Punishers weapons. facepalm

Are you sure you know what a Ballista? Seems like you are confusing it with that Magic that Saruman did.


Yeah, a car door is like a shield. However, in this case the person has armor too, and meat shield.


You keep saying that. You speculated that he has thousands of different bullets, guns, explosives, rocket launchers, ammo's...etc. You still have to prove he has ALL of that.