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I heard that in the OT, Kendo was used as the art of the lightsaber during the fighting sequences. In Episode 1, I heard it was some kind of Wushu (chinese martial arts) art. I noticed a BIG difference in the style of lightsaber fighting between Episode 1 and the OT. The Episode 1, was ALOT more "flasy" (common in the chinese martial arts), while the OT was more "direct" (as the japanese martial arts). As I've said before, I've done alot of research and studying on sword (and staff) fighting. I'm very interested to see how the fight sequences will be done in episode 2. As you all know, I'm not very fond of fans saying Mace Windu is unbeatable with a lightsaber. I want him to get cut up, because even swordmasters get defeated (and killed). Miyamot Mushashi was not undefeated as many people think. He lost one fight to a jo staff master. The cold reality in sword fighting is that most sword fights do not last even six seconds. One mistake is almost always fatal (as we saw with Master Qui-Gon Jinn).

I think that the style of sword play we see in the OT is very much that of an aging OB1 and that Luke picks up on this and addopts it to himself.

I would imagine that, as with most forms of fight skill, that while there is an underlying form, that the individual will inject their own personailty into it to make each person techniques subtly different.

Suppossedly Mace Windu's unpredictable fighting style makes him the best Jedi swordsman, while Master Qui-Gon Jinn's own master said that Qui-Gon was the best swordman in over 400 years (Mace isn't that old). I think it would've been so cool to see Master Jinn spar against Master Windu.

I think it would be cool to see ANY practice sparring between Jedi. And it would be logical for a master and apprentice to do so, hope George put some good scenes in between Anakin and Obi Wan.

Just found this slightly ageing thread on a subject that interests me...

The sabre fighting in Episode IV was straight fencing. And as a fencing match it was all very well, but they wanted to 'pep it up' a little for the next two. The sword fighting in the enxt two isn't actually any style, really. It's pure movie stunt fighting.

Nick Gillard and Ray Park wanted something a bit more sophisitcated for Episode I. The fighting style developed there is a combination of just about everything available, from Kendo to (would you believe) tennis!

There is a disturbingly detailed web site on all this somehwere, but I can't remember the address (and for all his undoubted knowledge, the guy who wrote it is a loon... he has the most amazingly detailed sections on how he thinks the lightsabre actually works ((it being neither Light nor a sabre)). However, point is, direct comparisions on swordfighting in the movies is difficult, because they are always pulling silly moves that you would never do in a real fight, but look VERY good.

Well, I prefer a less flashy style. That fighting in TPM is not very realistic. The style in ESB and ROTJ was much more direct, agressive, to the point. When you fight, go for the kill. Not for the flashy moves. I hope we get to see a little more of that.

I saw Sleepy Hollow, Nick Gillard did that as well. Fancy fighting, parrying blows on your back while turning around. Even though it looks fancy, it's not really fighting. More like dancing.

Sadly, if such a thing as a lightsabre existed, 'proper' lightsabre fights would be exceedingly dull. That's the needs of the screen for you.

Most of Darth Maul's moves were 'realistic', accounting for the fact that he was using a TERRIBLE weapon!

Well, I thought it looked great and spectacular. But if you see the movie a couple of times it does starts to look a little like ballet. Compare that to ESB and ROTJ and the fight's a lot more emotional, more violent. I hope we get a bit more of that, especially in the fight between OB1 and Anakin in Ep3.

From what we know Christopher Lee is an expert swordsman and easily handles Anakin and Obi-Wan. Maybe the Jedi learn a lesson from fighting him and realize all the flash isn't needed and they fight with more precision.

No, I think we can assume that the Jedi are all bloody great and the screen tarts it up for our benefit. Aside from which, the fights in ESb and ROTJ may have looked more direct, but they were appallingly unprofessional as well. Only the duel between Obi-Wan and Vader is a proper sword fight- a classic fencing match, with the occasional added twirl by Alec Guiness, complete with circular disarms and fighting for centre. But they just didn't think it lookedgood enough.

Incidentally, although the fights in TPM as a whole were obviously cinematic and unrealistic, they all at least require incredible skill- except for Obi-Wan, that is! Studied up close his moves are hopeless! In fact, the guy who runs that loony site is at a loss to explain how Darth Maul managed to lose half his sabre, but never mind...

But it all looks good, and that's what the filmmakers want.

Yes, but I would like it to be a bit more emotional. I felt that some moves were so studied, made up. So sure it should look good, but with heart please.

Normal fencing does look a little boring and it is. Much different that Kendo for instance, which also doesn't last very long but it's much more spectacular.

You may well be right. Oddly enough, though, I thought the best move in TPM was the least emotional- Darth Maul's final blow to Qui-Gon. A twirl, and a stab BEHIND himself into Qui-Gon, without even looking at the man he is killing, looking with no expression at Obi-Wan.

Followed, of course, by the look that says "F*** you! I just killed your master! And what are you going to do about it!"

Of course, it lightsabres were 'real', all lightsabre duels would be fencing matches. There would be no point in any other style of fighting when you are using a weapon that can kill an opponent with virtually no effort. You don't need power, or extreme movement. You just need the centre, and one good poke. That's fencing.

Found the web address!

I hope it's not maintained by anyonme here, because then I'dlook pretty stupid.

It's www.synicon.com.au/sw/

And boy, is it more than just lightsabres there!

In any case, I highly recommend everyone who hasn't before to go there and check out the section on lightsabres.It is utterly exhaustive, and incidentally also very dismissive of all EU sources...

It also contains a section on the scene cut from TPM when Qui-Gon berates Obi-an for shorting out his lightsabre when he turns it on underwater. Has this missing scene been discussed on this forum before?

I don't know, but it's been discussed to death just about anywhere else.

I'll check the site later. Maybe a more fencing style could be fun, it would stress the lethal nature of the sabre, as long as the fight is a little spectacular.

I don't know...seeing a bunch of jedi poking at eachother with their sabers seems kind of strange to me.

I don't know. If you ever saw Branagh's Hamlet then you can see it can be quite spectacular. Even though the fight scene sometimes lacked decent action direction, it was quite enthralling.

Yeah but with lightsabers?..

Ther's not really a difference right. You even get some additional flashes.

I have seen that fight in Hamlet and it was really good, but I still like the idea of Jedi Knights using the lightsaber like the Knights of old used swords.

But old knights wielded swords in a very slow and sluggish way, because they were so heavy. Check out Excalibur for some good sword fights. It's cool, but slow. Light sabres should be very fast and they ARE fast as we have seen in three movies (not counting ANH).

A highly trained (unarmed) martial artist can defeat a sword wielding opponent by taking the sword away from the opponent and using against him/her. This should work, even against an opponent who is armed with a lightsaber. I don't think we will see this in the movie because too many fans just wouldn't believe it.

That depends on the relative ability of the two combatants. There is no reason to beleive that an unarmed martial artist is intrinsically better than an armed one- and an armed one can kill more easily.

I think Tifa does have a point about fans not believing that kind of fight..I think part of the problem is the lack of knowledge in the martial art..People take that kind of idea more as a myth of the art instead of a true skill.

Which is fine by me.

In my experience, fans very much believe in that sort of fight, as much as you can believe in a fight with force powers and impoosible tech swords, and so on. I have a far bigger problem with people believing that a weapon like Maul's is anything other than completely useless than being duped into believing the supposedly erroneuous idea that swords are no good in martial arts.

Why do you think Mauls weapon is so useless?

A hafted weapon, but one where you can only hold the middle? Rubbish.

The sword has always been the primary individual weapon throughout most of history for good reason- it's simply best at the job. In large groups, pikes might do you better, though many who study Japanese warfare think that Samurai would have annhilated pike formations.

But really youe options with Maul's weapon are extremely limited. Most of your skill is put into making sure you don't cut you're own head off, you have a crippling weak point as people aim blows towards your hilt, you can't get the advantages of hafting because, as I say above, you can only hold the middle, and though it may look good for fighting two opponents, it doesn't take much to notice that once you block with one side the other side is useless.

It doesn't matter, of course, because it's all fanatsy and it looked gorgeous. But some people now seem to think it would be the ultimate weapon in 'real' fighting... uh-uh, guys.

I agree. I used to play around a lot with a sword. I can swivel it around, I did some fencing once. When TPM came out I bought Maul's sabre, but it's not a very handy weapon. It's awkward, it's clumsy. Even when you parry with one blade and want to use the other, you have to bring it all the way from the back. And you tend to hit yourself a lot with the blade.

So all in all, the choreography in TPM was excellent!

The very thought of you trying to use that toy is funny, queeq

okay Ush..I guess you've got a excellent point..it's not a very effective weapon.

And that is a shame, because it did look VERY good. Difficult to see where they can go from there without it becoming silly.

Oh...I'd think that they'll do something more traditonal from this point out.

I was always playful.

Well, it will be spectacular for sure.

Yeah, I can't imagine Christopher Lee being very flashy with a new "supersaber" or anything. I imagine from here on out it will be back to the basics.

And probably beating the hell out of the flashy dudes.