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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6IAoPAjzpw

While the game and storyline look absolutely amazing, in the grand scheme of Star Wars, it renders all continuity moot. When I read the original plot, I thought it was a fantastic idea (if you disregard the fact that it shares similarities with the Empire), but after watching the trailer, George Lucas is an idiot who should have quit years ago. The storyline makes no sense, the characters make no sense. Nothing makes any sense in the game if you consider everything you know about star wars, canon. Anyways, I don't give a damn about anything new related to star wars because it's a waste of time following contradictions.

Obviously republic wins, otherwise the movies would've never happened.

But seriously? Why are the sith so stupid? They'll never actually succeed in taking control of the galaxy for more than a few years, MAYBE decades. They fail every time. And it's all because of overconfidence and infighting.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Obviously republic wins, otherwise the movies would've never happened.

But seriously? Why are the sith so stupid? They'll never actually succeed in taking control of the galaxy for more than a few years, MAYBE decades. They fail every time. And it's all because of overconfidence and infighting.

How about the fact that the trailer says they've been playing for 300 years. Since the "True Sith" escaped millennia ago, and the sith emperor after the hyperspace war, how could have they only been preparing for 300 years?

How about the Sith Academy on Korriban? All of a sudden it's up and running like nothing ever happened? The True Sith haven't been to Korriban in thousands of years.

And finally, how about the Truth Sith themselves. They disappeared sometime after the birth of the republic, so they're all of the sith species, including the emperor and all of the sith lords who escaped the great hyperspace war. Yet the sith for the most part are humans in the game. How the hell are the true sith humans? And how did the ancient sith know the location of the true sith? All bullshit.

I have to agree that the storyline makes no sense really,(as of now anyway) why would the sith emperor (who is so old) all of sudden give up the idea of galactic conquest when it seems like the sith empire is about to overrun the republic?

Edit:

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
How about the fact that the trailer says they've been playing for 300 years. Since the "True Sith" escaped millennia ago, and the sith emperor after the hyperspace war, how could have they only been preparing for 300 years?
Especially given what Traya says about them,makes it seems like the were set to invade the republic not long after kotor 2. The only thing I could think of is Revan and the Exile (provided no major plot twists involving them) doing some serious damage to them.



Didn't Traya say they would eventually remember and its not too far fetched for them to get the information out of someone such as the mandalorians given their supposed role in starting their war with the republic.
I agree with this to an extent, my guess is that they have done some serious recruiting and found a lot of people who hate the republic, bribed others,maybe used sith magic on them.


You lost me here.

How did the ancient sith know the location of the true sith? As in how did whoever the hell it was that escaped the great hyperspace war, know the location in the unknown regions? And as far as recruiting goes, that makes no sense because the true sith were all sith species. I don't think any of the recruits in the game have any connection to the sith people, including the dark council who, according to the comics, look human.

Depends on whether or not they are sticking with that meaning of True Sith, I suppose...

I think it has been 300 years since Revan went looking for them (around the time of the first KOTOR game), perhaps meaning that they had not been plotting to invade the Republic until around that time?

I don't see how it buggers up things, I just see how some of the plotline is already weak.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Depends on whether or not they are sticking with that meaning of True Sith, I suppose...

I think it has been 300 years since Revan went looking for them (around the time of the first KOTOR game), perhaps meaning that they had not been plotting to invade the Republic until around that time?

I don't see how it buggers up things, I just see how some of the plotline is already weak.

Why would the true sith, who have been out of contact with the known galaxy for 15-20,000 years, only be planning retaliation right after the Jedi Civil. Also, how do the True Sith even know who the Jedi are, seeing as how they never came in contact with them.

How is this GL's fault?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
How is this GL's fault?


GL should be overseeing and commenting on the development of the game, and possibly preventing contradictions.

I sitll feel that a KOTOR 3 would have been much better than his retarded tOR 3456789-w/e

ah it seems like its a good time to use the 屌 word its so awesome.
I 屌ing hate tOR developers for not making a KOTOR 3.

lol

Originally posted by kotorfan
GL should be overseeing and commenting on the development of the game, and possibly preventing contradictions.

I sitll feel that a KOTOR 3 would have been much better than his retarded tOR 3456789-w/e

ah it seems like its a good time to use the 屌 word its so awesome.
I 屌ing hate tOR developers for not making a KOTOR 3.

lol

See: The Clone Wars.

GL is the worst thing you could add to a new project.

I noticed. Lol

Bioware should really make KotOR 3 and restore their reputation if they fail on this game.

Actually I do think that there is still a chance for a KotOR 3 because of the reason that they specifically make it KOTOR 300 yrs after KOTOR 2.

why would they do that, unless they are planning to make use of that time gap with more games/stories/comis/ or w/e?

so yeah thats my reasoning about the kotor game/timeline

Originally posted by kotorfan
why would they do that, unless they are planning to make use of that time gap with more games/stories/comis/ or w/e?They've already established that they aren't making a KOTOR 3; one of the developers said there's enough content in TOR for it serve as KOTORs 3 - 10.

then why is it taking place 300 yrs after? what happens inbetween? Imho it would be more like a KotOR 10,11,12,13,14 rather than 3456789


and thats just sad. They are destroying the KotOR franchise that has been so successful. They should expand on their success until it runs out, then try the mmo. Isn't that how it usually is anyways?

Like in Final Fantasy, they are still going. I think its up to FFXIII now.. lol

Frankly "Star wars continuity" and "storyline" and the "grand scheme of star wars" is Bull shit as of 1999. Everyone agrees that george lucas should have quit years ago. THe only reason I watched the latest three or read any recent comics or books is for the fact that everything looks amaizing. Stop whining about a continuity that was ruined in 1999 when the OT was made. the game looks sexy.

Originally posted by kotorfan
then why is it taking place 300 yrs after? what happens inbetween? Imho it would be more like a KotOR 10,11,12,13,14 rather than 3456789


and thats just sad. They are destroying the KotOR franchise that has been so successful. They should expand on their success until it runs out, then try the mmo. Isn't that how it usually is anyways?

Like in Final Fantasy, they are still going. I think its up to FFXIII now.. lol I think they've thought this through a little bit more than you have, bud. Like Knightfall said, just enjoy the game - or don't - and move on with your life.

lol. I hope so.

when does it come out? do they have a release date on their site?
I haven't really been up to date or visiting their site in awhile now. xD

ok anyways i'll go study for more finals now. good night.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Why would the true sith, who have been out of contact with the known galaxy for 15-20,000 years, only be planning retaliation right after the Jedi Civil. Also, how do the True Sith even know who the Jedi are, seeing as how they never came in contact with them.

Dude did you even listen to the storyline of KOTOR2?

Originally posted by Eminence
See: The Clone Wars.

GL is the worst thing you could add to a new project.

Mostly because his 1st question is

"Is this going to make me a ton of money"

to which the reply is

"Yes"

to which he then replies

"Then it's fine"

All that without looking up from his desk.

Does anyone really think he gives a shit about any of the EU beyond it raking in millions for his bank account?

His part in the saga is done...He's made his films and it's doubtful he'll be making any more.

For the most part the use of George Lucas in the development of plots for games/comics/books/cartoons doesn't go beyond his allowing his name to be used so as to make even more money.

Does he care if it ****s up continuity? No
Does he care if people get upset that it ****s up continuity from something else he didn't care about in the 1st place?...No
Why?...Because most star wars obsessives will still buy it anyway and he'll have made his money.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
Dude did you even listen to the storyline of KOTOR2?

Every word. Which is why I made the thread. What is your point?

It's just another lame addition to the EU anyway

*runs*

No seriously, it is just a game. It's supposed to make people have fun, there will always be something to whine about...

I'm still asking myself how that storyline renders anything moot. It actually makes sense, at least to people who do know something about Star Wars and paid attention to the source material released so far (read: "Golden Age of the Sith" "Fall of the Sith Empire" + the KotoR games).

Originally posted by Borbarad
I'm still asking myself how that storyline renders anything moot. It actually makes sense, at least to people who do know something about Star Wars and paid attention to the source material released so far (read: "Golden Age of the Sith" "Fall of the Sith Empire" + the KotoR games).

Oh good, then you'll be able to explain what makes sense and where i'm wrong, instead of making the usual baseless assertions.

Baseless, sir, baseless.

ds wil win

Originally posted by jaden101
Mostly because his 1st question is

"Is this going to make me a ton of money"

to which the reply is

"Yes"

to which he then replies

"Then it's fine"

All that without looking up from his desk.

Does anyone really think he gives a shit about any of the EU beyond it raking in millions for his bank account?

His part in the saga is done...He's made his films and it's doubtful he'll be making any more.

For the most part the use of George Lucas in the development of plots for games/comics/books/cartoons doesn't go beyond his allowing his name to be used so as to make even more money.

Does he care if it ****s up continuity? No
Does he care if people get upset that it ****s up continuity from something else he didn't care about in the 1st place?...No
Why?...Because most star wars obsessives will still buy it anyway and he'll have made his money.


QFT dude lol. Thats exactly how I envisioned him to be.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Every word. Which is why I made the thread. What is your point?

This also goes along with what borbarad was saying about the comics and the KOTOR games.And because we don't know what Revan did after KOTOR1 the reasoning for some of the story may make sense later.

First off to my knowledge the true sith and ancient sith are one and the same. So they weren't out of contacto for 15-20,000 it was only 1000-1300 when they came back for the war thats going on in TOR.

Ragnos didn't ever plan on attacking the republic so I don't think it's too hard to belive that the sith weren't actively trying to build up a huge army to take back the republic. Especially since The sith Emperor in TOR was a sith who survived the Great Hyperspace War(which ended in 5000 BBY) and maybe escaped with a few thousand of his men.

So for him to rebuild a sith empire to take on the republic (which from what he knows is big venture and not something which can be conquered easily hence Marka Ragnos's stance on not wanting to fight the republic)would take him about 1000 years if not longer(which also coincides with the timeline) because he isn't an idiot and would realize that within the 1000 years he has been building up the sith from nothing the republic would be growing as well. Also the blood would get watered down so the presence of full on sith species would go down alot after that 1000yrs especially because not everyone who escaped with the Sith Lord after the war would be the sith species.

And the story of Revan as I understand it was during the mandalorian wars he discovered the true sith(which is the same as the ancient sith) and thats why he turned bad he though it takes a sith to kill a sith and he believed only through him could the republic stay alive and thats why he kept key planets unscathed by the jedi civil war so they could be used against the true siths assualts when they came.
Then the events of KOTOR1 happen and cannon LS, Male, ending happens. During KOTOR2 you discover Revan left to fight the true sith to keep them from attacking the Republic and I believe you know the rets about carth, bastilla, and canderous.

So I think that whatever Revan did could have stalled the siths invasion for 300 years OR maybe the sith wanted to see how much Revan war would and the war following would weaken the republic before launching an attack.

why the waited 300years No one knows as of right now but Im sure they will tell us why so long either before the game comes out or its party of the games storyline and we won't know until we play it

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
This also goes along with what borbarad was saying about the comics and the KOTOR games.And because we don't know what Revan did after KOTOR1 the reasoning for some of the story may make sense later.
What Revan did is at this point, irrelevant to my posts.


No, the true sith and the ancient sith are NOT one of the same. The True sith left known space sometime after Adas died and a long time before the 100 year darkness.


This is what I take issue with. There's no evidence based on any canon material, that the ancient sith knew the whereabouts of the true sith. And again, they are NOT one in the same.


You're still operating under the assumption that ancient sith=true sith


No, what Revan discovered is that Korriban and malachor V were at one point, near the outer boundary of the true sith empire. Not the ancient sith empire.


300 makes no sense, the number as it was told by the original storyline of the new game, was around 1500 years.

DS
No, the true sith and the ancient sith are NOT one of the same. The True sith left known space sometime after Adas died and a long time before the 100 year darkness.I'm curious, where is this stated?

God forbid they introduce... new material.

Well, new material has never been historically a good thing for continuity.

Checkmate.

Wait...

Originally posted by Gideon
Well, new material has never been historically a good thing for continuity.

Checkmate.


There's a difference between new material and material that ****s up continuity.

Originally posted by Eminence
I'm curious, where is this stated?

Kriea/NEC

The true sith were the original jedi that turned, they fought a war, lost and were forced to flee to a planet that belonged to the sith race. They took them over, mixed with and indoctrinated the population so much that they became inseperable from this race, even taking their name as their own. This happened till the time of Ragnos etc etc.

This is one possibility.

The other is that the 'sith race' of Ragnos' time were nothing like the ideals of the actual sith (they actually show compassion and loyalty lol), but that these ideals lived on within or apart from this race, surviving until Revan was able to find them. This ones a bit of a wild shot though and I'm too tired to think it through clearly.

I'm reading about the lost tribe of the sith and apparently during the hyperspace war, they employed human force sensitives. Kinda straight since the sith didn't make contact with the republic since they were exiled, but whatever.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
What Revan did is at this point, irrelevant to my posts.


No, the true sith and the ancient sith are NOT one of the same. The True sith left known space sometime after Adas died and a long time before the 100 year darkness.


This is what I take issue with. There's no evidence based on any canon material, that the ancient sith knew the whereabouts of the true sith. And again, they are NOT one in the same.


You're still operating under the assumption that ancient sith=true sith


No, what Revan discovered is that Korriban and malachor V were at one point, near the outer boundary of the true sith empire. Not the ancient sith empire.


300 makes no sense, the number as it was told by the original storyline of the new game, was around 1500 years.

The ancient sith and True sith are one and the same thing Adas was a sith (species) who unified the sith and they never left after he died. at all. Actually it just says that they were in constant civil war until the dark jedi from the 100yr darkness came and enslaved them.

So tell me when did the True sith leave the known galaxy? and how are the true sith and ancient sith not the same?

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
The ancient sith and True sith are one and the same thing Adas was a sith (species) who unified the sith and they never left after he died. at all. Actually it just says that they were in constant civil war until the dark jedi from the 100yr darkness came and enslaved them.

So tell me when did the True sith leave the known galaxy? and how are the true sith and ancient sith not the same?

The information on wikipedia, Kreia, and NEC all claimed that the True Sith were in existence for "tens of thousands of years", and weren't the ancient sith. Unless the new game is retconning all of this.

all of those are fallible sources

Wasn't their new info that said the true sith were really ancient sith who survived the great hyperspace war?

My feeling is that Lord Kaan and Bane and Sidious are all "descended" from these mysterious "True Sith."

If it was retconned that true sith=ancient sith, that explains some things. It doesn't explain the use of lightsabers, non sith species sith lords, or all red lightsaber crystals.

http://www.starwars.com/media/general/losttribeofthesith_precipice.pdf

tl;dr

I wantz pictures.

Originally posted by jaden101
Mostly because his 1st question is

"Is this going to make me a ton of money"

to which the reply is

"Yes"

to which he then replies

"Then it's fine"

All that without looking up from his desk.
Probably doesn't even work at a desk anymore. He probably just sits around a pool signing his name on anything star wars that might turn a nickel.

Also the original Lost Tribe of the Sith who crashed on Kreth during the hyperspace war had regular lightsabers. This makes no sense since regular lightsabers weren't created until 4800 bby.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Also the original Lost Tribe of the Sith who crashed on Kreth during the hyperspace war had regular lightsabers. This makes no sense since regular lightsabers weren't created until 4800 bby.


what is this about exactly?

Originally posted by kotorfan
what is this about exactly?

Lost Tribe of the Sith: Precipice.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Also the original Lost Tribe of the Sith who crashed on Kreth during the hyperspace war had regular lightsabers. This makes no sense since regular lightsabers weren't created until 4800 bby. Retcon?

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Lost Tribe of the Sith: Precipice.

oh thx.

Originally posted by Eminence
Retcon?

Not really sure how you can retcon that part while all other sources say the Jedi were fighting with power packs and lightsabers weren't really discovered until 4800 bby. Damn you Lucas.

DS IS BACK!!!

Gideon's gf took up a lot of my time.

The "True Sith" Have only been gone for a thousand yeas at the time of KotOR.

Again, that's where the argument is. Various sources including Kreia state that the true sith left thousands of years before the dark jedi exiles even arrived on Korriban.

Originally posted by Eminence
Retcon?

Originally posted by Eminence


There was no specific mention of any retcon.

This game should not even be in the making. A KOTOR-like game for the 360, with a good story and gameplay would pwn.

I am guessing that more will be explained when the game actually comes out. There must have been an inciting incident that gives cause for the three-hundred years of preparation, rather than thousands.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Again, that's where the argument is. Various sources including Kreia state that the true sith left thousands of years before the dark jedi exiles even arrived on Korriban.

Oh really? Where exactly? The only source that states something like that is Wookiepedia. There is a reason why you shouldn't trust all things on a site that anybody can edit - regardless of their comprehension skills.

The only quote from KotoR2 needed to solve your problems is this one here:

"Malachor, like Korriban, lies on the fringes of the ancient Sith Empire, where the true Sith wait for us, in the dark." - Kreia

There you go. Kreia says that Malachor is just like Korriban - and Korriban has always been part of the Ancient Sith Empire. First as capital planet, later as graveworld. The next hint is, that Kreia is talking about the ancient Sith Empire, implying that there only was one. The one that started with the Dark Jedi joining the Sith and ended with Sadow's attempt to conquer the Republic.

In short: The "True Sith" have always been a group of people that fled from the Ancient Sith Empire. And Kreia uses that term to descripe anything related to the Sith, with the exception of Revan's empire: The Ancient Sith, the Sith beliefs (which are even older) and so on...

This should answer most of your questions.

For most of the Sith in the game being humans: You did notice that the game takes place 28 years after the initial invasion of the Sith into Republic space, right? Not only that, most likely, the Unknown Regions where also populated by humans - most recruits would spawn from the conquered territory and would, by chance, be humans. The time setting also explains, why the Academy of Korriban is (again) running. The Sith forces most likely re-opened it for training. Also not a new concept, given that Korriban was also used as training facility for the Brotherhood of Darkness in the times of Bane.

And for the lightsabers: The issue has been subject to change throughout the saga. In the DE comics, Vima-Da-Boda hands Luke Skywalker a 10,000 year old lightsaber which is, de facto, working without any "power cable" attached to it. In the TOTJ comics, when Kun visits Ossus to plunder the planet, he also wants to have "ancient" lightsabers, that are, as it seems normal ones. And finally, the KotoR games themselves pretty much stated that lightsabers were used in the Ancient Sith Empire. Kreia claims that Tulak Hord was a champion of lightsaber combat and, given that he has a tomb on Korriban, he must have lived before the Fall of the Sith Empire (5,000 BBY).

So...how exactly does the game render the entire SW continuity moot? It's the only logical story development following from what we've seen in KotoR 2.

The only thing that I thought being laughable, was the fact, that - watching the trailer - they really attack the damn Jedi Temple on Coruscant with 2 dozen Sith and two headhunters...Shouldn't there be thousands of Jedi around to stop them?

Originally posted by Borbarad
Oh really? Where exactly? The only source that states something like that is Wookiepedia. There is a reason why you shouldn't trust all things on a site that anybody can edit - regardless of their comprehension skills.

The only quote from KotoR2 needed to solve your problems is this one here:

"Malachor, like Korriban, lies on the fringes of the ancient Sith Empire, where the true Sith wait for us, in the dark." - Kreia
There's an NEC quote that I'll need to look up and that isn't the only quote from Kreia. She also says that they've been around for "tens of thousands of years".


The implications were that the true sith empire included Korriban and Malachor V, while the ancient sith empire included Malachor V. Again, if they retcon the true sith being the same as the ancient sith, then that's fine. But based on the KOTOR games and the NEC, they're not one in the same.


Yes but the true sith and the empire consisted of only sith species. Granted, Lost Tribe of the Sith: Precipice somewhat retcons that by saying that there were force users in the Tapani sector that did the bidding of the ancient sith lords, especially during the Great Hyperspace War. The point is both sith empires WERE strictly sith species.


In regards to KOTOR, I believe that was retconned by NEC, and certainly by JvS.




Apparently only 6.