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pre-Final Crisis Darkseid.

Who wins ?

Darkseid stomps. Bor has no destructive power what so ever.

Still gets the OS? And he's not the weak guy in the toilet chair? OS beats Bor.

The chair? Dude, that was just his physical body. Darkseid would take over Bor's form as a new host.

Even forgoing that, he had actual skyfather feats. Darkseid stomps.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
The chair? Dude, that was just his physical body. Darkseid would take over Bor's form as a new host.

Even forgoing that, he had actual skyfather feats. Darkseid stomps.

mmm

I don't recall any of these feats.

Yeah his body was still weak he wasnt 100% dont get all hot and bothered mr defensive

Bor wrecks this top tier.

Darkseid.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Bor wrecks this top tier. Quan, stop with your nonsense. facepalm

Originally posted by iceman24567
Yeah his body was still weak he wasnt 100% dont get all hot and bothered mr defensive

It was just that the fact that you called it a toilet chair.

Quan: STFU and get out of the thread troll. The adults are talking. Darkseid is far from a mere top tier.

Originally posted by Badabing
Quan, stop with your nonsense. facepalm He is just a top tier. Superman blows him out of the water with feats and is much more formidable. Bor defeats either Superman or Darkseid. Originally posted by TricksterPriest
It was just that the fact that you called it a toilet chair.

Quan: STFU and get out of the thread troll. The adults are talking. Darkseid is far from a mere top tier. Then present your case. I have yet to hear a convincing argument why he is above top tier nowadays.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
It was just that the fact that you called it a toilet chair.

Quan: STFU and get out of the thread troll. The adults are talking. Darkseid is far from a mere top tier. I just called it a toilet chair for my personal lulz

Originally posted by quanchi112
He is just a top tier. Superman blows him out of the water with feats and is much more formidable. Bor defeats either Superman or Darkseid. Then present your case. I have yet to hear a convincing argument why he is above top tier nowadays. Your opinion is very much in the minority regarding Darkseid, and DC in general. This isn't HC or any other forum where you post nonsense like its fact then hide behind "imo". You bait to just to incite a reaction and to draw out people. We (mods) know your routine and it won't be tolerated. FYI, we're beyond warnings and temp bans for you. Any other replies and questions are to done via PM.

Originally posted by Badabing
Your opinion is very much in the minority regarding Darkseid, and DC in general. This isn't HC or any other forum where you post nonsense like its fact then hide behind "imo". You bait to just to incite a reaction and to draw out people. We (mods) know your routine and it won't be tolerated. FYI, we're beyond warnings and temp bans for you. Any other replies and questions are to done via PM. Bye.

DS can win this. Bor was short lived.

DS.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Bye. lol

Originally posted by Mindset
lol

I second that lol at Quan.

Lulz Well I for one dont see Darkseid as just top tier not when he has the OS or OE

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I second that lol at Quan.
third

Originally posted by xJLxKing
third

fourth.

Darkseid

Originally posted by quanchi112
He is just a top tier. Superman blows him out of the water with feats and is much more formidable. Bor defeats either Superman or Darkseid.

Unfortunately, I agree with this statement. DS has been retconned and represented by avatars too many times to be considered skyfather. Herald, maybe. Bor wins 6/10 fights against Darkseid.

Originally posted by Mattek
Unfortunately, I agree with this statement. DS has been retconned and represented by avatars too many times to be considered skyfather. Herald, maybe. Bor wins 6/10 fights against Darkseid.

Herald maybe?

Do you realize that Darkseid CREATED Takion or Stayne...one of 'em.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Herald maybe?

Do you realize that Darkseid CREATED Takion or Stayne...one of 'em. Yea, I do - and that'll probably be retconned in a year putting DS back into a whirlwind of retardedness. The character has been ruined by horrible writing/editing. He would lose to Bor, IMO.

What the **** does retconnes have to do with making a character weak?

Originally posted by Mattek
Yea, I do - and that'll probably be retconned in a year putting DS back into a whirlwind of retardedness. The character has been ruined by horrible writing/editing. He would lose to Bor, IMO.

I fail to see how your dislike of retconning has anything to do with Darkseid's placement as a herald....

The character itself is weak because of the retcons and avatar's. 50% of his wins have been erased and his loses to superman are still in continuity. The combination puts him at herald level.

His retconning takes away his losses....and actually makes all his wins done by a weaker then real self...placing darkseid at herald level is retarded.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
His retconning takes away his losses....and actually makes all his wins done by a weaker then real self...placing darkseid at herald level is retarded. And that's your opinion. 'Top Tier Herald' suits him perfectly.

Originally posted by Mattek
And that's your opinion. 'Top Tier Herald' suits him perfectly.

There is no such definition.

It's evne more ludicrous to assume that he can endow Stayne, who goes in at trans level, with his powers and remain a herald.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
There is no such definition.
There is now. Darkseid being the synonym.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
There is no such definition.

It's evne more ludicrous to assume that he can endow Stayne, who goes in at trans level, with his powers and remain a herald.

Very true,

Funny how Quanchi's socks get banned, but he doesn't.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
There is no such definition.

It's evne more ludicrous to assume that he can endow Stayne, who goes in at trans level, with his powers and remain a herald.
He did so by tapping into the Source, possibly while he was still dead and inside of the Source (although I'm not sure of the Takion/NG v3 continuity). It isn't a solo feat for Darkseid and it isn't as though he did it under his own power. Its very clear he did not.

Darkseid is physically beneath or on par with Superman now. And Superman is high herald. The only saving grace Darkseid has going for him is the OE. I would place him at trans because of it, which is where he was at on KMC before too many posters got their panties in a bunch and complained.



Darkseid seems to be the better fighter and the OE or OS might end this in one shot. But I think Bor could deflect his finder beams with his halberd, and one-shot from Bor would end this match. So, I'll go with a 5/10 split.

It was never ever said that he did it by tapping into the source im not sure where you got that from and hes equals with highfather who def made takion without it so theres goes that,darkseid is back to being a real god as of FC all his loses are retconned into avatars which means that avatars that only posses a tiny fraction of his power throw down with heralds.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
It was never ever said that he did it by tapping into the source im not sure where you got that from and hes equals with highfather who def made takion without it so theres goes that,darkseid is back to being a real god as of FC all his loses are retconned into avatars which means that avatars that only posses a tiny fraction of his power throw down with heralds.

Takion of the Source! It even said 'Highfather created Takion out of The Source.' It wasn't as though Highfather's personal power created Takion. And when Darkseid creates Stayne, he notes that where there is light, there must be darkness. Takion was the embodiment of the light side of the Source, Stayne - his exact opposite - the dark side of it. Takion was created from the Source. So was Stayne. It wasn't as though Darkseid's personal power created her nor that she was imbued with a portion of Darkseid's own power, so its irrelevant to use that feat in order to claim that DS is skyfather level.

Also, OP states that this is Darkseid pre-FC.

We see darkseids own hand forming her to go fight takion,they created beings who could channel the source,the source is not cuttoff anywhere in this battle so again they created trans level beings and that falls in perfectly with what we know of their real power(aka mortally wounded darkseid breaking down all time space),its not like just having access to the source allows you to do these things.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
We see darkseids own hand forming her to go fight takion,they created beings who could channel the source,the source is not cuttoff anywhere in this battle so again they created trans level beings and that falls in perfectly with what we know of their real power(aka mortally wounded darkseid breaking down all time space).
It was not "Darkseid's own hand" - it was somekind of ethereal, astral-projected oversized hand. And again. It said that Takion was created from the Source. Stayne, being Takion's exact opposite, would also have been created from the Source, rather than from Darkseid's own personal power.

It isn't a feat of Darkseid's power. And it has no relevance in a forum battle.

Highfather tapped into the source to do that,darkseid always has been highfathers equal so if highfather can do something there is no reason darkseid can't,the source is allowed to be used by them as a power source so its perfectly relevant,otherwise I guess we are taking the power cosmic from people?lemme guess captain atom isn't allowed to use the quantom field anymore right?

ALL NEW GODS ARE CONNECTED TO THE SOURCE. The goddamn Omega Force and Alpha Force are part of the Source. That is a bullshit excuse and you're just lowballing because you refuse to admit DS might actually be a skyfather with feats exceeding ****ing Odin.

How about Mantis, or empowering Kalibak, or Validus, or manifesting an avatar from the Source wall using more power than Apokolips generates in an entire year?

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Highfather tapped into the source to do that,darkseid always has been highfathers equal so if highfather can do something there is no reason darkseid can't,the source is allowed to be used by them as a power source so its perfectly relevant,otherwise I guess we are taking the power cosmic from people?lemme guess captain atom isn't allowed to use the quantom field anymore right?

Highfather has his Wonder Staff which gives him a direct link to the Source. Darkseid doesn't have that. He needed a machine in order to breech the Source Wall and tap into it. Darkseid has his Omega Powers. Highfather has the link to the Source via his Wonder Staff. Highfather was able to create Takion via that link. Darkseid was maybe still technically 'dead' when he created Stayne. Which explains that connection to the Source and the ability to manipulate it. Regardless, this is Darkseid vs. Bor, not Darkseid using a one-time connection to the Source that is unexplained and very much open to interpretation to create a trans tiered character to fight Bor for him.

It could have also been strictly out of necessity. Highfather being good, it was necessary to have a Darkseid. Just like New Genesis and Apokolips. When Takion was made, perhaps the Source knew it was necessary to have a dark opposite to balance it. *shrug*

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
How about Mantis, or empowering Kalibak,
Yeah, those are perfectly valid.

The other two, I'm not sure I'm familiar with.

All new gods are connected to the source and even made of the source thats why their bodies return to it in death(as orions was doing in FC).

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
All new gods are connected to the source
I understand that perfectly well.

I also understand that typically Darkseid does not have the ability to manipulate the Source on his own. See NG v3 #1-2, see what happens at the end of the S'ivva fight, see Genesis, see what happens in the Superman/Batman comic when he's stuck to the Source Wall, etc.



Bottom line is that it was not Darkseid's personal power which created Stayne. It was the Source's power. And its not really a relevant feat when arguing power for him.

As soon as you prove he created stayne the exact same way highfather created takion and that he used the source and not his own powers to do it ill take that argument seriously otherwise its darkseids own power and feat.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
As soon as you prove he created stayne the exact same way highfather created takion and that he used the source and not his own powers to do it ill take that argument seriously otherwise its darkseids own power and feat.

Will it make a difference? I'm not wasting my time if not.

base on bor's one showing, probably darkseid.

he did lose to current thor. seeing as they both fought all out and the victory could have gone either way. they're probably almost equal in power.

and currently, thor hasn't shown anything near what odin did with the odin force.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
base on bor's one showing, probably darkseid.

he did lose to current thor. seeing as they both fought all out and the victory could have gone either way. they're probably almost equal in power.
While holding back, Bor broke Thor's ribs with one physical blow. Prior to that, on another swing from Bor, Thor said that without the Odinforce it would have killed him. What do you think that's going to do to Darkseid? And when Bor unleashed his full power, Thor could barely walk forward....Onslaught/Mindless Hulk battle style.


Darkseid is physically outclassed here. His OE is the saving grace which makes this battle interesting.

Originally posted by Enyalus
While holding back, Bor broke Thor's ribs with one physical blow. Prior to that, on another swing from Bor, Thor said that without the Odinforce it would have killed him. What do you think that's going to do to Darkseid? And when Bor unleashed his full power, Thor could barely walk forward....Onslaught/Mindless Hulk battle style.


Darkseid is physically outclassed here. His OE is the saving grace which makes this battle interesting.

i dont recall bor as holding back when he broke thor's ribs and i was re-reading the book last night.

probably the same thing it did to thor. brake a rib or two but still be able to get up and fight.

and as for bor unleashing his full power, i call pis/cis on thor not using the odin force to counter bor's unleashed power. he had to again, rely on mjolnir and forget that he could amp hisself up with the odin force

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
i dont recall bor as holding back when he broke thor's ribs and i was re-reading the book last night.
By holding back I meant he hadn't yet unleashed his 'God' powers, like he did at the end of the book.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Funny how Quanchi's socks get banned, but he doesn't.

Yeah, how many times will this go on for?....

Originally posted by Enyalus
By holding back I meant he hadn't yet unleashed his 'God' powers, like he did at the end of the book.

gotcha

Originally posted by Enyalus
It was not "Darkseid's own hand" - it was somekind of ethereal, astral-projected oversized hand. And again. It said that Takion was created from the Source. Stayne, being Takion's exact opposite, would also have been created from the Source, rather than from Darkseid's own personal power.

It isn't a feat of Darkseid's power. And it has no relevance in a forum battle.

Highfather created Takion with his own power and Darkseid did the same with Stayne. Both of them infused normal humans with their powers, transforming them into conduits to the Source.

Highfather didn't use his staff he used his Alpha Force and DS used the Omega Force. You said it yourself, they don't have the ability to manipulate the Source directly but they could use their power to create objects or beings more deeply connected to the Source like Motherboxes, Takion and Stayne.

Originally posted by Allankles
Highfather created Takion with his own power and Darkseid did the same with Stayne. Both of them infused normal humans with their powers, transforming them into conduits to the Source.

Highfather took a human soul and gave it a connection to the Source with his own power. Darkseid did the same to Stayne. Neither Takion nor Stayne are infused with any of Highfather's or Darkseid's own power. They are pure Source and made from The Source.

Thus, it isn't a reflection of Darkseid's power that he was able to create a trans-tiered entity. Because that entity doesn't carry any of Darkseid's power. Darkseid has nothing to do with the power that Stayne wields. Only the means of getting her to that point. It isn't a reflection of his power.

Now you make think I'm lowballing him, but I am not. Physically, Darkseid is about peak high herald. Around Superman's level, around Orion's level. Maybe more or maybe less. Durability-wise I'd put him in the mid herald tier. He had his eyes swollen shut from Superman's punches and had his arm broken by a sunamped Superman....I'd like to point out that Wonder Woman also had her arm broken by sunamped Superman. And I don't see their durability being too vastly different. So, strength-wise definitely peak herald, durability wise about mid herald...

The "gamebreaker", as TP has said, is his Omega Force. The ability to one-shot kill most beings is definitely a mid-to-high skyfather trait. You wanna average out those mid herald, high herald, and mid skyfather level traits and you'd probably come out with pre-FC Darkseid being about trans to possibly low-skyfather level in power.

Now, moving on to Bor, we kinda have to look at current Thor. One recent feat of his was the ownage of that Super Skrull amped by Stormbreaker who attacked Asgard. She was powerful enough to shrug off three blows from BRB wielding Mjolnir, then choke him to the point of unconsciousness with one arm while holding off the Warrior's Three with the other and toss him casually away, almost killing him in the process. Gotta put her around trans level, as I've never seen BRB owned so hard and effortlessly, even when facing Blood & Thunder Thor. Thor comes in, tanks a cosmic blast from Stormbreaker, then throws himself in front of a thrown Stormbreaker charged to destroy the city...then comes back and basically owns her with one blast and one physical blow. Shows a lot about both his durability and his strength. Then you have his fight with a Balder-empowered Destroyer Armor. In his classic form, a human-empowered Destroyer killed him with the disintegrator beam. Balder guiding the Destroyer would be even more powerful. And Thor also notes that the Destroyer was attacking more furiously than he had ever seen. Yet current Thor was able to tank the disintegrator beam's energies without any damage to his body. Not only that, but he was able to match the Destroyer physically. The Destroyer is a bonafide trans tier. So obviously current Thor had at least a decent upgrade in strength and a huge upgrade in durability.

Onto Bor now...who with one blow was able to break Current Thor's ribs, even with this vast durability increase. And, to reiterate an earlier post's point...Bor was holding back his power at this point. He hadn't gone into 'God Unleashed' mode yet. Thor saying that if he hadn't had the Odinforce he would've been killed by that blow is clearly no exaggeration, because as we see from the Destroyer example (Disintegrator Beam killing Classic Thor, not leaving a scratch on Current Thor), such an example had already happened. Bor's physical strength is clearly, then, at least mid-skyfather level. His power output is probably also at least mid-skyfather level, considering that this Thor could barely walk forward from the amount of power Bor was unleashing, and Thor's statement that he'd never felt such power before. And Bor uses a weapon capable of matching Mjolnir's might...that halberd that he has. So while Darkseid has a one-shot game-ender, one blow from Bor is also going to remove Darkseid from the fight.

And Bor's halberd is probably more than capable of blocking DS's finder beams, if DS launches them straight at him or if Bor is fast enough to wield his weapon properly. And I would think he is. Thor and Bor charged each other at an even speed, implying that speed-wise, they're equals or close to it. And Thor with the Odinforce has easily parried the Norse God of Speed's rapier attacks as well as - already mentioned - catching up to and overtaking a thrown Stormbreaker.

Since they both have the capability to end the match with one shot, I gave them an even split, 5/10 each way. Now, I don't think I'm being biased, because while they both have that...Bor is physically superior. But hey...whatever.

On the other hand, Wonder Woman and Barda got stopped by the Furies, and Darkseid could probably knock out the whole group of Furies with a single backhand, if he connected to all of them.

Lobo couldn't even phase Darkseid. And even Hell fears Lobo.

The Superman comparison is a tough one, Superman slides up the scales a lot when he needs to. He's a -lot- more powerful than he lets on sometimes.

Nice post though. Good to see someone putting some thought into it.

Originally posted by Juntai
On the other hand, Wonder Woman and Barda got stopped by the Furies, and Darkseid could probably knock out the whole group of Furies with a single backhand, if he connected to all of them.
Wonder Woman was definitely doing sooo much better than Barda was in that battle...the art was droolio too.

Originally posted by Juntai
Lobo couldn't even phase Darkseid.
Yeah, but then he gets owned by a pre-upgraded Wonder Woman, Batman, and absolutely got his shit tossed by Superman, too. He fluctuates way too much.

Originally posted by Juntai
Nice post though. Good to see someone putting some thought into it.
Thanks.

Yo Eny what made you type all of that in vs thread about a character with a couple of showings? Yikes!!

Originally posted by Enyalus


Thus, it isn't a reflection of Darkseid's power that he was able to create a trans-tiered entity. Because that entity doesn't carry any of Darkseid's power. Darkseid has nothing to do with the power that Stayne wields. Only the means of getting her to that point. It isn't a reflection of his power.



Stayne's capabilities are not a direct reflection of DS power but they are a reflection of the magnitude of his power i.e. they reflect just how much the Omega Force encompassess, allowing DS to create beings of great power Validus, Stayne, Mantis et al with fractions of his power.

The same goes for Highfather who transmuted Sanders into Takion with the Alpha Force.

Again, I didn't mean to say that Stayne/Takion's vast capabilities are a direct reflection of DS/Izaya's power but they do demonstrate the magnitude, the scale of their power that they can instantly transform any being into a conduit to the ultimate foundation of energy.

Darkseid has better feats

Originally posted by Allankles
Yo Eny what made you type all of that in vs thread about a character with a couple of showings? Yikes!!
I didn't want to study for my French exam and needed to kill time.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I didn't want to study for my French exam and needed to kill time. Warned for not studying. Thanks.

Originally posted by Badabing
Warned for not studying. Thanks.
Warned for exceeding your warning quota for the day.

uhuh

Originally posted by Enyalus
Warned for exceeding your warning quota for the day.

uhuh ohno


sneer

Originally posted by Badabing



sneer

Warned for stealing the smiley that I stole from a 16 year old Swedish girl.

No joke.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Warned for stealing the smiley that I stole from a 16 year old Swedish girl.

No joke. Lies. I invented, made and uploaded the smiley all by myself. sneer



biscuits

Originally posted by Badabing
Lies. I invented, made and uploaded the smiley all by myself. sneer



biscuits

Sounds like there's not a lot to do at the retirement home.

Did they cancel Matlock? peaches

LOL @ people giving Bor a chance here, DS 10/10.

Originally posted by Uxas Khan
LOL @ people giving DS a chance here, Bor 10/10.

fixed