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Odin is wearing the Destroyer armor and he also has the Odin-sword and Gugnir.

Galactus has just fed.

They fight on Asgard.

Who wins in this showdown of titans?!

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/127245-60046-destroyer_super.jpg vs http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/27967/834226-efforts_super.jpg

Galactus.

Galactus...

Even if destroyer was empowered by all asgardaians and chopped off a celestials arm...

I'd still say galactus

Galactus easily.

Odin will do some damage but in the end galactus will win.

Galactus in...three shots, at most.

If he couldn't hurt a celestial how will he do any better against Galactus?

Galactus

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/33806/804274-11_beta_ray_bill__godhunter_3_super.jpg

^ *cries*

Galactus for the win.

Celestial = Galactus imo

Galactus

Originally posted by Utrigita
^ *cries*

Galactus for the win. That scans worries me. Brb already prevented him from eating one planet. But Galactus even dying of hunger should be able to easily take town brb.

godhunter is bleh, Galactus should swat away any skyfather and below threat

Galactus.

And I doubt BRB will physically hurt Galan, I mean, he outright stated nothing he could do would be enough to harm Galan.
Hopefully the writer keeps up that idea...

Galactus has been jobbing for years.
Best to file that scan under "Panther Armbar / Batkick"

Funny thing is, I think Classic Destroyer could've put up a decent fight (what, with "bolts of limitless force," and all). But now...

Galactus ftw. Really.

Originally posted by kgkg
That scans worries me. Brb already prevented him from eating one planet. But Galactus even dying of hunger should be able to easily take town brb.

Likewise, and agreed 100%

If it's just Odin in the Destroyer armour, the Galactus should have no problem swatting him aside.

If it's Odin + Asgardian race (like it was in the Eternals Saga) then Galactus will have some work to do.

Originally posted by Starscream M
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/33806/804274-11_beta_ray_bill__godhunter_3_super.jpg

What is this? In which comic this will be or may be? Beta taking out probably extremely hungry Galactus? Actually I wouldn't be surprised, if it would happen, because of how badly Galactus can be written.
Still, he can own Rulk.

The one thing I'm wondering about Godhunter is the fact that after both his heralds fail, Galactus would most likely be like GTFO Bill, and atomise him then and there.

I'm wondering what the writer's solution to that is.

going feat for feat odin easily matches galactus. i'd give it to g since he was well fed, but i doubt it would be easy at all. odin>mephisto and we've seen mephisto match his raw power. this odin in the armor would be even more powerful.

Indeed. Feat for feat, Odin matches Galactus.

Galactus should win, but a hard earned match.

I really like this pick of Odin and the Destroyer Armor.

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/1913/thormow024.th.jpg
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/1913/thormow024.jpg

Galactus wins. Beating Meph doesn't really prove anything really he has been defeated to many times he is like a cosmic rhino.

Big G

i really cant see galactus being that affective against the destroyer or odin. especially not being "fully powered"


he has stated he doesnt like magic, and when you are a magic weilder in odins calibre, you are more than likely going to give galactus trouble.

add in the destroyer armor (making odin virtually invulnerable) then i doubt anything galactus does will matter.

i think galactus is stopped.

I wouldn't worry too much about that scan with BRB and Galactus.

It looks more like a cover to a comic, then anything, and we all know (or should, anyway) not to take them literal.

Originally posted by KillAll
i really cant see galactus being that affective against the destroyer or odin. especially not being "fully powered"


he has stated he doesnt like magic, and when you are a magic weilder in odins calibre, you are more than likely going to give galactus trouble.

add in the destroyer armor (making odin virtually invulnerable) then i doubt anything galactus does will matter.

i think galactus is stopped. I think you're seriously underrating Galactus here.

It's widely accepted that he's considerably above Skyfather level. Also I read somewhere that he used the Destroyer as a herald one time, (I could be wrong).

Originally posted by KillAll
i really cant see galactus being that affective against the destroyer or odin. especially not being "fully powered"


he has stated he doesnt like magic, and when you are a magic weilder in odins calibre, you are more than likely going to give galactus trouble.

add in the destroyer armor (making odin virtually invulnerable) then i doubt anything galactus does will matter.

i think galactus is stopped.

Galactus has dealt with Mephisto, Agammotto, and the In-Betweener. IB serves Master Order and Lord Chaos, and it's their realm that is known as the realm of "magik" i.e. where the vishanti are.

Agammotto and IB>>>>>>>Odin with the destroyer armor

Originally posted by Lord S
I think you're seriously underrating Galactus here.

It's widely accepted that he's considerably above Skyfather level. Also I read somewhere that he used the Destroyer as a herald one time, (I could be wrong).


unfortunately "widely accepted" isnt any more valid than my own opinion.


i do believe galactus capable of slaying the destroyer. and odin. but your average everday galactus isnt capable of it. he has "jobbed" to many times.


i also believe the forum to overrate galactus and underrate the destroyer.

Originally posted by Lord S
Also I read somewhere that he used the Destroyer as a herald one time, (I could be wrong).
It was his herald at one point, yeah.

Originally posted by KillAll
unfortunately "widely accepted" isnt any more valid than my own opinion. If that's how you feel, then that's perfectly fine...but understand that 'widely accepted' beliefs are based more on the actual feats and powerset of the character, rather than mere opinion.

So then what's the problem??

Uh...ok.

Define your 'average everyday Galactus'...and what does jobbing have to do with anything?

Well you're entitled to your opinion...as bizzarre as it is.

The Celestials treated the Destroyer like a yapping poodle...so will Galactus

Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
The Celestials treated the Destroyer like a yapping poodle...so will Galactus And that version of the Destoyer was animated with the power of all of Asgard, (minus Thor). But in fairness to the Destroyer, it was 10-on-1, (or actually 2...but the Uni-mind was hardly a factor).

Originally posted by KillAll
i really cant see galactus being that affective against the destroyer or odin. especially not being "fully powered"


he has stated he doesnt like magic, and when you are a magic weilder in odins calibre, you are more than likely going to give galactus trouble.

add in the destroyer armor (making odin virtually invulnerable) then i doubt anything galactus does will matter.

i think galactus is stopped.

He doesn't like magic but doesn't have any weakness to it.

See how he beat Mephisto in his realm, or stattlemated Agamotto, in his realm too.

Originally posted by kgkg
That scans worries me. Brb already prevented him from eating one planet. But Galactus even dying of hunger should be able to easily take town brb. bill said he was going to troll galactus around the universe and blow up any planet galactus selects for consumption.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
bill said he was going to troll galactus around the universe and blow up any planet galactus selects for consumption. and what would prevent Galactus from turning Bill to cosmic dust?

the plot of the comic

Originally posted by psycho gundam
the plot of the comic yeah, but don't they still have to make up some kind of plot device (ie galactus has terminal cancer and only has 2% energy left etc)

Originally posted by Tenebrous
Galactus has dealt with Mephisto, Agammotto, and the In-Betweener. IB serves Master Order and Lord Chaos, and it's their realm that is known as the realm of "magik" i.e. where the vishanti are.

Agammotto and IB>>>>>>>Odin with the destroyer armor

Dealt with the IB? I seem to recall it being quite the opposite.

Agamotto isn't necessarily that much stronger than Odin in his armour....

Originally posted by Starscream M
yeah, but don't they still have to make up some kind of plot device (ie galactus has terminal cancer and only has 2% energy left etc) Originally posted by psycho gundam
bill said he was going to troll galactus around the universe and blow up any planet galactus selects for consumption.

Originally posted by Tenebrous
Agammotto and IB>>>>>>>Odin with the destroyer armor

huh? unprepped dr STRANGE has stalemated the IB for a prolonged length of time and proof that aggy>>>>>>>>>>odin, let alone odin in armor?

You like putting Dr. Strange down, don't you, Leonidas? lol

IB is roughly on a par with Galactus and definitely in the upper echelon of cosmic entities. But Kris is right - IB kicked Galactus's ass.

Originally posted by Enyalus
You like putting Dr. Strange down, don't you, Leonidas? lol

IB is roughly on a par with Galactus and definitely in the upper echelon of cosmic entities. But Kris is right - IB kicked Galactus's ass.

not so much down, as in his rightful place.

i wouldn't say IB kicked g's ass--both were hammering each other pretty evenly. IB's showings have never really been all that great. matching g was likely the best thing he's ever done.

Originally posted by leonidas
not so much down, as in his rightful place.

i wouldn't say IB kicked g's ass--both were hammering each other pretty evenly. IB's showings have never really been all that great. matching g was likely the best thing he's ever done.

Still easily above Odin-empowered Destroyer.

Originally posted by leonidas
not so much down, as in his rightful place.

i wouldn't say IB kicked g's ass--both were hammering each other pretty evenly. IB's showings have never really been all that great. matching g was likely the best thing he's ever done. That's pretty much the only "real" fight that he has if you leave out battle were he was powerless or couldn't do anything ie IG , HOTU

Few people realize that it was actually Thanos' backhand which depowered IB, not the fact that his bubble and been burst. Literally.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Dealt with the IB? I seem to recall it being quite the opposite.


Originally posted by Enyalus
But Kris is right - IB kicked Galactus's ass.

No...I'm too lazy to put all the scans of the fight so I'll just retrieve it from G's respect thread.

Originally posted by Charmander
Here's Inbetweener trying to kill Galactus.(unconcious.)
1. http://img108.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198801713ur0.jpg
2. http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198801714lz7.jpg

Here's a scan to show, just how powerful Inbetweener really is. Just read.

1. http://img108.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198801715jf0.jpg
2. http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198801716ez1.jpg

That's right!
He summoned Death, and ordered her around, like a....

And, the fight.
Galactus vs Inbetweener
G is mad.

1. http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198801723endzy0.jpg
and...
1. http://img309.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198801802qu4.jpg
2. http://img304.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198801803fx7.jpg
3. http://img312.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198801804ag6.jpg
4. http://www2.propichosting.com/Images/450016509/1.jpg
5. http://www2.propichosting.com/Images/450016509/2.jpg
6. http://www2.propichosting.com/Images/450016509/3.jpg
7. http://www2.propichosting.com/Images/450016509/4.jpg
8. http://www2.propichosting.com/Images/450016509/5.jpg
9. http://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198801810qn8.jpg
10. http://img259.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198801811cw3.jpg
11. http://img306.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198801812hk4.jpg
12. http://img306.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198801813nr0.jpg
13. http://img303.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198801814nj5.jpg
14. http://img303.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198801815ad9.jpg
15. http://img306.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198801816fl6.jpg
16. http://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198801817mt9.jpg
17. http://img312.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198801818xl9.jpg
18. http://img307.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198801819ij4.jpg
19. http://img335.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198801820xf2.jpg
20. http://img335.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer19880182122oe5.jpg
21. http://img303.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198801823endza2.jpg

All of these scans, courtesy of Ethereal!

It's not so much IB kicking his ass. Hell artistic rendering alone panel-by-panel has Galactus landing more hits (it was a boxing match after all) than the IB.

This is also after Galactus was near death due to cosmic indigestion at the hands of the elders of the universe.

IB fought a Galactus that in the previous cmoic, was on his backside suffering worse than the swine flu. And IB didn't even win the battle, let alone kick his ass.

Originally posted by kgkg
That's pretty much the only "real" fight that he has if you leave out battle were he was powerless or couldn't do anything ie IG , HOTU

so he battles a VERY weakened galactus and is stalemated by an unprepped strange and everyone is supposed to think he's one of the great powers? not buying it . . .

on that basis i see no way to conclude IB>odin, let alone odin+armor. if we go by feats as we're supposed to odin>>>>>>>>>>>>IB.

Odin ftw, Galactus regulary struggles against weaker opponents and uleashing a annihilation style blast isn't a regular character trait

Tenebrous, counting punches is just....it's just stupid really :/

If the number of punches landed really dictated who would win, then Doc Samson would ruin The Hulk in every fight. The fight was close and claiming that Galactus kicked his ass is just plain wrong.

Originally posted by Tenebrous


IB fought a Galactus that in the previous cmoic, was on his backside suffering worse than the swine flu. And IB didn't even win the battle, let alone kick his ass. are you trying to prove that IB is powerful or that he is overrated?

Originally posted by leonidas
so he battles a VERY weakened galactus and is stalemated by an unprepped strange and everyone is supposed to think he's one of the great powers? not buying it . . .

on that basis i see no way to conclude IB>odin, let alone odin+armor. if we go by feats as we're supposed to odin>>>>>>>>>>>>IB.

A Stranger that if I recall correctly had help from Master Order and Lord Chaos. Then it's lucky that we have Kubik mentioning him amongst them isn't it? We doesn't need to suppose anything

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Tenebrous, counting punches is just....it's just stupid really :/

If the number of punches landed really dictated who would win, then Doc Samson would ruin The Hulk in every fight. The fight was close and claiming that Galactus kicked his ass is just plain wrong.

You can also work with the fact that In-Betweener needed to draw Galactus to a place inbetween the physical and the Magical Universe, where In-Betweener was at the height of his power, to gain a definitive upperhand, If I read the scan correct.

Heavy G, wins easy.

Galactus merely threatening to consume Mephisto's realm, was enough to scare Mephisto. Galactus could simply consume Asgard (and Odin) if he felt like it, and there's nothing an Odin empowered Destroyer could do about it, imo.

Galactus was also easily matching Aggamatto, in his own realm, whilst clearly not taking him seriously (thinking that he was a mere bug).

If Galactus wants it, Asgard is lunch (well, toast really).

Originally posted by janus77
Heavy G, wins easy.

Galactus merely threatening to consume Mephisto's realm, was enough to scare Mephisto. Galactus could simply consume Asgard (and Odin) if he felt like it, and there's nothing an Odin empowered Destroyer could do about it, imo.

Galactus was also easily matching Aggamatto, in his own realm, whilst clearly not taking him seriously (thinking that he was a mere bug).

If Galactus wants it, Asgard is lunch (well, toast really). galactus can't even take earth...and he's wanted to badly on several occasions

yet he's gonna eat asgard for lunch? gimme a break

for every high feat galactus has had, he's easily had a couple more low-ball feats. galactus' average showing is certainly not far above Odin, who's been able to destroy entire universes before iirc.

Originally posted by Starscream M
Odin, who's been able to destroy entire universes before iirc.

when has Odin destroyed entire universes?

Make no mistake Utrigita and Tenebrous.

I don't think that IB is more powerful than Galactus. But Galactus never "kicked his ass" as the only fight they had was relatively close.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Make no mistake Utrigita and Tenebrous.

I don't think that IB is more powerful than Galactus. But Galactus never "kicked his ass" as the only fight they had was relatively close.



We are just in each oure way delivering oure opinion

Originally posted by Sin I AM
when has Odin destroyed entire universes? Maybe I remembered incorrectly, I recall seeing scans of Odin either destroying or perhaps creating? a universe

Odin was holding a universe/multiverse(?) in the palm of his hand.

Originally posted by Starscream M
galactus can't even take earth...and he's wanted to badly on several occasions

yet he's gonna eat asgard for lunch? gimme a break

for every high feat galactus has had, he's easily had a couple more low-ball feats. galactus' average showing is certainly not far above Odin, who's been able to destroy entire universes before iirc.

First time with Fantastic Four Reed had the UN and a bargain was struck that kept Galactus from devouring it, Second Time Galactus was as you say yourself beaten by Earths heroes (and he was weak after (yet again) having chased Terrax across the universe), which he, his third time, manhandles, before SS made a new bargain with Galactus. Two times bargains and one time Plot. In a Alternate reality, direct following the scenario of the second Time, Galactus eats earth without any problems. Same in Heroes Reborn, Same with two seperate realities in one Galactus eats earth (SS takes away the UN, and Earths heroes are powerless) the other time only because Uatu "sacrifice" himself is Earth Spared... Lastly how good would it look if Galactus in Fantastic four 48?

He did so in MC 2 without any apparent problems.

IIRC Odin has never destroyed Entire Universes.

Originally posted by Utrigita
First time with Fantastic Four Reed had the UN and a bargain was struck that kept Galactus from devouring it, Second Time Galactus was as you say yourself beaten by Earths heroes (and he was weak after (yet again) having chased Terrax across the universe), which he, his third time, manhandles, before SS made a new bargain with Galactus. Two times bargains and one time Plot. In a Alternate reality, direct following the scenario of the second Time, Galactus eats earth without any problems. Same in Heroes Reborn, Same with two seperate realities in one Galactus eats earth (SS takes away the UN, and Earths heroes are powerless) the other time only because Uatu "sacrifice" himself is Earth Spared... Lastly how good would it look if Galactus in Fantastic four 48?

He did so in MC 2 without any apparent problems.

IIRC Odin has never destroyed Entire Universes. the fact that earth was able to even bargain galactus out of eating it proves the limitations of his power

do you bargain with ants if they crawl up your sandwich? no, you flick them away

but the earth heroes proved to be formidable enough to at least stall galactus.

Im not saying he isn't powerful...but I don't think he is far beyond Odin, and with destroyer armor, I see them as pretty equal in terms of a fight.

Even in the current god hunter arc, even BRB, a being far below Odin, is threatening Galactus

Originally posted by Starscream M
the fact that earth was able to even bargain galactus out of eating it proves the limitations of his power

do you bargain with ants if they crawl up your sandwich? no, you flick them away

but the earth heroes proved to be formidable enough to at least stall galactus.

Im not saying he isn't powerful...but I don't think he is far beyond Odin, and with destroyer armor, I see them as pretty equal in terms of a fight.

Even in the current god hunter arc, even BRB, a being far below Odin, is threatening Galactus

I'm sure that Galactus was more then willing to try and take the Ultimate Nullifier if it wasn't for the fact that he could have blasted the entire Universe to bits with it!

Which Galactus have done in every other instance save earth And as mentioned have done multiply time in alternate realities.

A Galactus that only wanted to fed and that Showed that he could with the smallest effort of will kill the SS if he wanted.

I respect that, I think it's wrong but I respect it.

And Thor with the Thorforce wouldn't even at the highest of his power undertake the task of helping BRB.

Originally posted by Utrigita


We are just in each oure way delivering oure opinion

Yeah, I often get into debates with people whom I agree with

Originally posted by Starscream M
the fact that earth was able to even bargain galactus out of eating it proves the limitations of his power

do you bargain with ants if they crawl up your sandwich? no, you flick them away

but the earth heroes proved to be formidable enough to at least stall galactus.



You obviously haven't read enough Galactus

1)Galactus has shown moral objections at times (other times he hasn't) to devouring inhabited worlds. When so he only does because there's no alternative. The writing is inconsistant here.

2)In Galactus the Devourer earth's heros attack hum in unison but have no effect on him. He doesn't respond in kind because as the Surfer says "It would elevate their importance too high in his eyes".
G only bargained with the Surfer because he wanted the Surfer back as a willing herald, not because of any threat posed by earth's hero's.

Originally posted by Utrigita

I respect that, I think it's wrong but I respect it.


cool, I respect your opinion as well. I believe that Galactus is a very inconsistent character.

I dont know where people are getting this from, but Odin never created nor destroyed a universe.

Originally posted by Starscream M
the fact that earth was able to even bargain galactus out of eating it proves the limitations of his power

do you bargain with ants if they crawl up your sandwich? no, you flick them away

but the earth heroes proved to be formidable enough to at least stall galactus.

Im not saying he isn't powerful...but I don't think he is far beyond Odin, and with destroyer armor, I see them as pretty equal in terms of a fight.

Even in the current god hunter arc, even BRB, a being far below Odin, is threatening Galactus

BRB outright stated nothing he could do would hurt Galactus =/

And as for Galactus not eating Earth, that's a lot to do with the fact that if he did everyone would die and Marvel would have no comics to make.

Originally posted by Naija boy
I dont know where people are getting this from, but Odin never created nor destroyed a universe.
I'm pretty sure what's being referenced is in Thor v2 where Thor, who now has the Odinforce, enters a pocket universe that was in all probability created by Odin. Then he explains that Thor hadn't been using the Odinforce to its full potential, etc...




And, Galactus wins. To reiterate.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I'm pretty sure what's being referenced is in Thor v2 where Thor, who now has the Odinforce, enters a pocket universe that was in all probability created by Odin. Then he explains that Thor hadn't been using the Odinforce to its full potential, etc...




And, Galactus wins. To reiterate.

I honestly do not remember anything being said about it being a pocket universe (actually im sure it was never mentioned) let alone Odin being the one that created it. It seemed to simply be a dream sequence in which thor met Odin and Odin showed him the true power of the Odin force and creates a few planets and stars.

Originally posted by Utrigita
A Stranger that if I recall correctly had help from Master Order and Lord Chaos. Then it's lucky that we have Kubik mentioning him amongst them isn't it? We doesn't need to suppose anything

no . . . that's how he BEAT him. he stalemated him on his own. and again--go by hearsay all you'd like. feats are what matter and in terms of feats odin>>>>>>IB. in fact, IB has literally done NOTHING that would justify his being placed with high cosmics. unless you count barely holding his own against a very weak galactus (and in fact having to force g to a secific point to even win that fight at all!)



that's exactly correct. which only furthers the evidence that IB is NOT as powerful as some have made him out to be.

Inbetweener in his first showing that I remember force lady death to do his bidding...

Originally posted by leonidas
no . . . that's how he BEAT him. he stalemated him on his own. and again--go by hearsay all you'd like. feats are what matter and in terms of feats odin>>>>>>IB. in fact, IB has literally done NOTHING that would justify his being placed with high cosmics. unless you count barely holding his own against a very weak galactus (and in fact having to force g to a secific point to even win that fight at all!)

Wasn't that Classic Strange? In terms of feats Odin is above you Average Celestial ... Calling Death and ordering her around, the power to summon the opposite of a being, any being in question it seems is a powerful ability. I don't.

Originally posted by leonidas
that's exactly correct. which only furthers the evidence that IB is NOT as powerful as some have made him out to be.

A matter of perspective I guess, while In-betweener got no feats to support him, he got the statements and a ridiculous powerful ability.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Make no mistake Utrigita and Tenebrous.

I don't think that IB is more powerful than Galactus. But Galactus never "kicked his ass" as the only fight they had was relatively close.

Actually, you're the one who said this

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Dealt with the IB? I seem to recall it being quite the opposite.

Hence my bringing up artistic depiction, since someone's memory is a bit faulty. But you claim it as stupid, that's fine, as long as you acknowledge

1. The context of the situation
2. The falsity of your statement in regards to it being "quite the opposite" :/

And the one relatively close fight? It happened right after IB tried to kill Galactus with a blast, as well as G suffering from near death. The fact that the IB could only manage to stalemate him while fighting such a weakened G supports my point that G dealt with the IB, and IB is a mystical character who is above Odin with the destroyer armor.

Originally posted by leonidas
no . . . that's how he BEAT him. he stalemated him on his own. and again--go by hearsay all you'd like. feats are what matter and in terms of feats odin>>>>>>IB. in fact, IB has literally done NOTHING that would justify his being placed with high cosmics. unless you count barely holding his own against a very weak galactus (and in fact having to force g to a secific point to even win that fight at all!)

that's exactly correct. which only furthers the evidence that IB is NOT as powerful as some have made him out to be.

The problem with that reasoning is

Odin>>>oneg the prober
Odin>>>ziran the tester
Odin>>>gammenon the gatherer
Odin>>>eson the seacher

and more, up to and including

Odin>>>One Above All (celestial leader)

all based on feats

Originally posted by Tenebrous
The problem with that reasoning is

Odin>>>oneg the prober
Odin>>>ziran the tester
Odin>>>gammenon the gatherer
Odin>>>eson the seacher

and more, up to and including

Odin>>>One Above All (celestial leader)

all based on feats

except . . . we KNOW that's not true because we've SEEN a direct confrontation between odin and the celestials.

Originally posted by leonidas
except . . . we KNOW that's not true because we've SEEN a direct confrontation between odin and the celestials.

I'm talking about individually. Any single celestial aside from scathan, possibly exitar and tiamut, are eclipsed by feats when compared to odin. Odin in the destroyer armor fought multiple celestials, not one.

My argument is that based on reasoning solely on feats, odin is above nearly any 1 single celestial, the OAA (celestial leader) included. The destroyer armor animated by odin and the rest of the asgardians fought the fourth celestial host, not any one single celestial.

For example, Odin NEVER fought the OAA directly, and Odin's feats>>>>OAA's. OAA didn't participate in the battle against the destroyer armor.

Yet going by your reasoning, you would have to say that Odin>>>OAA, based on feats.

Normally marvel uses statements and on panel descriptions of powerlevel as well as portrayed status in order to give us an idea of the powerlevels of high end cosmics who have had few appearances and hence not as many feats. Featwise Odin is also above Master order and Lord chaos but we know they r clearly more powerful than he is.(though in regards to this specific match imo featwise Odin isnt even above Galactus). In that situation solely using feats to judge them would be faulty because Marvel has placed Order and Chaos quite far above Odin in the cosmic hierachy but he has more feats because he has alot more showings.

Originally posted by Tenebrous
I'm talking about individually. Any single celestial aside from scathan, possibly exitar and tiamut, are eclipsed by feats when compared to odin. Odin in the destroyer armor fought multiple celestials, not one.

My argument is that based on reasoning solely on feats, odin is above nearly any 1 single celestial, the OAA (celestial leader) included. The destroyer armor animated by odin and the rest of the asgardians fought the fourth celestial host, not any one single celestial.

For example, Odin NEVER fought the OAA directly, and Odin's feats>>>>OAA's. OAA didn't participate in the battle against the destroyer armor.

Yet going by your reasoning, you would have to say that Odin>>>OAA, based on feats.

nuh-uh. we can throw out all by feats in this case because . . . they ALREADY met. odin+a group of skylords couldn't even make arishem notice him. in the armor he wasn't able to take out ANY 'single' celestial. and that armor was empowered by a lot more than just the odinpower.

comparing odin and IB however is MUCH different. IB has next to zero good showings and quite the opposite the showings he has aren't very good. by contrast odin has dozens of uber feats. now, none of those feats would matter if we SAW odin get worked by IB.

since that has NOT happened, we use feats as opposed to simple hearsay. there is really no reason whatsoever to assume IB>odin. the opposite is true if we look at their histories.

arishem humbled all three sky-fathers by threatening to cut off their dimensions from earth forever.

iirc he showed the the connections between: asgard, shangralla, and olympus with earth on fire.

yeah. that was a very poor showing for the skyfathers.

the real issue at hand is how above or below galactus is compared to arishem.

agreed. i never really understood why everyone believes g>celestials when the celestials have always seemed greater than g to me. the earth x battle is irrelevent. in 616 celestials seem>galactus.

i thought the same, but galactus is a cornerstone of the universe due to his origin. he literally is empowered by a 3rd of the cosmic egg energy ( oblivion and infinity seem to be parts of eternity and death)

the celestials are somewhere under the 616 eternity i think, but their individual might is from another universe all together supposedly so it's hard to gauge.

tiamut was powerful enough to engage the entire second host foe centuries before they used "the weapon" on him, he is apearantly powerful enough to cause galactus to feel fear. so, g might be better than the avarage celestial.... *shrugs*

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i thought the same, but galactus is a cornerstone of the universe due to his origin. he literally is empowered by a 3rd of the cosmic egg energy ( oblivion and infinity seem to be parts of eternity and death)

that's pretty speculatory. just because he's a sibling doesn't mean he's equal to them. status doesn't always equate to power. and it doesn't mean eternity=a third of the egg energy either, nor death. i'd always thought the egg energy in it's totality WAS eternity and that he'd shielded g when he came from the previous universe. nothing to say how much power he was given. when he died the first time he became nothing more than a simple star--"ever-burning", but still . . . hardly the 'multiverse-ending' power that was intimated in annihilation.



yeah, they were formed BY eternity. each is powered by the might of a galaxy according to the black galaxy arc in thor.



maybe he's better than the average celestial, but his levels flucuate a lot more than theirs do. odin was once said to be near-equal to galactus but we've seen what he was able to do to the celestials. the higher celestials seem much more powerful than g. tiamut is just one example. people cite the earth x episode, but i think g was powered by franklin richards in that story. or something like that anyway . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, they were formed BY eternity. each is powered by the might of a galaxy according to the black galaxy arc in thor.
That's not really true at all. It takes a galaxy's worth of material to form them. But when born, that event rivals the Big Bang in scope. Also from the Black Galaxy arc.

And in another story, they're powered by hyperspace directly...which, in that story and according to Reed Richards, makes up the entire Marvel Universe.

meh. been a while since i read the arc. i knew they were formed from galactic material. if the birth rivals the big bang that's even more powerful than i recalled and hence even greater support of the celestials. the hyperspace stuff was odd when it was introduced. basically provided the means for sue to 'stab' one i guess. i suppose the 2 can be reconciled, but it's still clumsy writing.

Very.

the high evolutionary went catatonic from just witnessing one being born, i remember warlock taking off his mask and then HE was staring blankly mumbling about the light.

Originally posted by Enyalus
That's not really true at all. It takes a galaxy's worth of material to form them. But when born, that event rivals the Big Bang in scope. Also from the Black Galaxy arc.

And in another story, they're powered by hyperspace directly...which, in that story and according to Reed Richards, makes up the entire Marvel Universe.

i think leonidas is talking about SS #10 (i think) where Eternity is telling Galactus how he meditated, and from the meditation, the Celestials were born.

Originally posted by leonidas
nuh-uh. we can throw out all by feats in this case because . . . they ALREADY met. odin+a group of skylords couldn't even make arishem notice him. in the armor he wasn't able to take out ANY 'single' celestial. and that armor was empowered by a lot more than just the odinpower.

comparing odin and IB however is MUCH different. IB has next to zero good showings and quite the opposite the showings he has aren't very good. by contrast odin has dozens of uber feats. now, none of those feats would matter if we SAW odin get worked by IB.

since that has NOT happened, we use feats as opposed to simple hearsay. there is really no reason whatsoever to assume IB>odin. the opposite is true if we look at their histories.

Ordinarily i'd agree with your logic but then again there's an issue. I have to bring up the OAA example because that fits the same criteria as the IB vs. Odin explanation you just gave.

OAA has never fought Odin, and Odin's feats are >>> OAA's since we are "using feats as opposed to simple hearsay." Again, disregard the fact that Odin has encountered other celestials before...i'm talking about this one particular celestial (OAA), purely to articulate my case.

Going by feats alone, and since there has never been a direct confrontation between the two, Odin>>>IB, with your reasoning.

However applying that same reasoning to Odin and the OAA, leads to the conclusion that Odin>>>OAA as 1. they have never met individually; 2. Odin's feats>>>>OAA's. In other words, the specific circumstances regarding the OAA and the IB are exactly the same.

but it doesn't work t. oaa>>>any other celestial. we've seen any other celestial>>>odin.

you need a completely seperate example.

Odin is greater than a many of marvels abstracts beings featwise. Doesnt mean he is above them.

Originally posted by leonidas
but it doesn't work t. oaa>>>any other celestial. we've seen any other celestial>>>odin.

you need a completely seperate example.

Yes it does work. I just illustrated how the your criteria of 1. no feats (or few feats) and 2. no encounters with Odin apply EXACTLY to the OAA as much as you apply them to the IB.

You implicitly believe that the OAA>>>any other celestial because of his station, NOT based on feats. We both know this because the OAA has almost zero feats. So you place a premium in the station that OAA commands, as opposed to his feats.

Yet, you are unwilling to apply the same logic to the IB. You are unwilling to believe that IB>>>Odin because of IB's station, NOT based on feats.

In other words, with the IB you place a premium on the feats, as opposed to the station that the IB commands, vs. the case with the OAA, where you place a premium on the station he commands, as opposed to the feats he has demonstrated.

See what i mean?

Originally posted by Tenebrous
Yes it does work. I just illustrated how the your criteria of 1. no feats (or few feats) and 2. no encounters with Odin apply EXACTLY to the OAA as much as you apply them to the IB.

You implicitly believe that the OAA>>>any other celestial because of his station, NOT based on feats. We both know this because the OAA has almost zero feats. So you place a premium in the station that OAA commands, as opposed to his feats.

Yet, you are unwilling to apply the same logic to the IB. You are unwilling to believe that IB>>>Odin because of IB's station, NOT based on feats.

In other words, with the IB you place a premium on the feats, as opposed to the station that the IB commands, vs. the case with the OAA, where you place a premium on the station he commands, as opposed to the feats he has demonstrated.

See what i mean?

again, not in this case. i'm not basing my opinion on station at all (though logic would dictate oaa is the most powerful of the celestials--perhaps he's not really, perhaps it IS just a station). my opinion is based on the simple fact that OAA IS A CELESTIAL. even assuming he's only as strong as a normal celestial, that is still more than enough to say he's >>odin. the only thing i'm presupposing is the fact that oaa is not far WEAKER than the average celestial. a logical enough stance i think.

seriously--the logic doesn't translate at all. ANY celestial>>odin based on direct confrontation. since oaa is a celestial, he is therefore>>odin.

and there's nothing inherent in IB's station that would lead me to believe he should be necessarily considered above odin.

now, if i said odin>>>chaos or order based on feats, you'd have an argument. i wouldn't say that for the simple fact that order and chaos have too FEW feats to form any opinion on. their stations are certainly above odin. as regards their personal power and how they would fair in direct combat against odin, or galactus or a celestial is impossible to say.

Originally posted by leonidas
again, not in this case. i'm not basing my opinion on station at all (though logic would dictate oaa is the most powerful of the celestials--perhaps he's not really, perhaps it IS just a station). my opinion is based on the simple fact that OAA IS A CELESTIAL. even assuming he's only as strong as a normal celestial, that is still more than enough to say he's >>odin. the only thing i'm presupposing is the fact that oaa is not far WEAKER than the average celestial. a logical enough stance i think.

seriously--the logic doesn't translate at all. ANY celestial>>odin based on direct confrontation. since oaa is a celestial, he is therefore>>odin.

and there's nothing inherent in IB's station that would lead me to believe he should be necessarily considered above odin.

now, if i said odin>>>chaos or order based on feats, you'd have an argument. i wouldn't say that for the simple fact that order and chaos have too FEW feats to form any opinion on. their stations are certainly above odin. as regards their personal power and how they would fair in direct combat against odin, or galactus or a celestial is impossible to say.

Again there's a simple flaw in your logic.

You said this:



well the IB IS AN ABSTRACT

It could reasonably be argued that the abstracts are as related to each other as much as the celestials are 1 race. You mentioned your odin>>>order or chaos example, but the same logic still applies. Order and Chaos are both abstracts, so is the IB. You argued that you have the luxury of placing a premium on the OAA's station because he is a Celestial, and Celestials have been shown to be greater than Odin.

The flaw that i'm trying to point out is that you HAVE to apply the same logic to the IB. the IB is an abstract body, and abstracts are clearly above Odin.

that's why I said take the OAA in complete separate isolation, and take the IB in complete separate isolation. with the OAA you're confident in his power because he's a celestial, even though the OAA has almost no feats.

Yet you're NOT confident in the IB's power, even though he's an abstract. As i said, it's a double standard. If you trust in the OAA's power simply because he's a celestial, then why don't you trust in the IB's power simply because he's an abstract? That's what i'm trying to get you to see

celestial > odin, vishnu, and zeus

Originally posted by Tenebrous
Again there's a simple flaw in your logic.

You said this:



well the IB IS AN ABSTRACT

It could reasonably be argued that the abstracts are as related to each other as much as the celestials are 1 race. You mentioned your odin>>>order or chaos example, but the same logic still applies. Order and Chaos are both abstracts, so is the IB. You argued that you have the luxury of placing a premium on the OAA's station because he is a Celestial, and Celestials have been shown to be greater than Odin.

The flaw that i'm trying to point out is that you HAVE to apply the same logic to the IB. the IB is an abstract body, and abstracts are clearly above Odin.

that's why I said take the OAA in complete separate isolation, and take the IB in complete separate isolation. with the OAA you're confident in his power because he's a celestial, even though the OAA has almost no feats.

Yet you're NOT confident in the IB's power, even though he's an abstract. As i said, it's a double standard. If you trust in the OAA's power simply because he's a celestial, then why don't you trust in the IB's power simply because he's an abstract? That's what i'm trying to get you to see

first, where do you get the notion that IB is a true abstract? he was created by chaos and order as a servant and must SERVE them. he's like a herald. an unhappy one, who wants to get off his leash. he's been tasked with keeping the balance when chaos and order see fit. true abstracts were formed of the universe, not from beings within them . . . were the IB slain, chaos/order might or might not decide to remake him. when an abstract is killed its m-body is destroyed but it's conceptual aspect is left intact (ie--when quasar defeated anomaly, or strange blew up death's m-body).

and not all abstracts need be more powerful than mortal beings. galactus is not abstract. mephisto is not abstract. dormammu is not abstract. so the logic does not hold that ALL abstracts>non-abstracts.

MIGHT IB be more powerful than odin? maybe, but not based on what i've seen of him, and i'd ceratinly NOT say IB>>>odin. it appears at the very least they are quite close in power levels.