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jla- supes,batman,ww, wally, jon stewart, hawk girl. xmen- cyclops,storm,logan,rogue,gambit,jean. Avengers- ironman,thor,hawkeye,capt,wonderman,scarlet withc. h2h no powers/weapons who wins

team avengers. Cap is equal to batman... About... Unlss you takeout the super soldier serum which makes cap a 90 lb weakling
Without powers wolverine has neither the strngth or healing factor for his skeleton and did with minutes from it

Thor without powers wouldbe donald Blake which means he gets raped by everyone...

If cap gets ss avengers win. Hawkeye is the new cap.

Oherwise batman solis both teams by himself

Why would Thor be Donald Blake?

no cap does not get the serum but hes still a soldier with years of training and experience, as for wolverine when i said no weapons i figured that would imply no adamantium my bad for not being specific, and as for thor i meant his normal body and fighting knowledge but with out his powers. what u dont think donald with his pimp cane could do any damage

W/o the syrum Cap would wither away and look like someone who hasn't eaten in 3 months. When he died the SSS reversed itself and he looked like he had starved to death. W/o the SSS Jean Grey could take him out.

i didnt realize the thread was that hard to understand. u take take the characters take away weapons this includes enhancements like adamantium not something like starks pacemaker thing and take away their powers like enhanced strength, speed, agility, healing, etc. I didnt intend for every possible side effect to be factored in such as wolverine losing his healing and instantly withiring into a 150 year old man, just that he cant heal from this point on. for capt i intended him to be an above average soldier with his years of combat training and experience but not with enhanced strength, speed, agility, etc. i hope this clears things up.

This is stupid. A bunch of peak humans beating eachother up and there's not good way to gauge the advantage here. I'd have to give the win to the x-men here since they seem to spend a lot more time training and seem like they all are pretty handy fighters.

Where is respect to Rogue, Gambit and Storm?
They are all very good in h2h.
Even Summers is good ar h2h.

And Logan is the best there is.

P.S. thread starter failed to make a readable first post. 'Enter' was placed on keyboard for a REASON.

thor without his powers would make him an average asgardian and would beat all of the jla, avengers and xmen to a pulp.

JLA

JLA

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
JLA

supes- has a thousand yrs of barbarian combat.
batman- bats is still bats
ww- amazon warrior princes arguably still better then bats
wally- hyper active clown average fighting ability
jon stewart - prior marine with basic combat martial arts
hawk girl- still an alien warrior who relies on brutal form of combat with blunt wpns.


cyclops- tactiacal genius and judo master can make organize the team. he beats hawkgirl, john and wally.

storm- trained by logan and gambit. she beats, wally, john and hawkgirl.

logan- at his best MA fighting would tear through everyone here.

rogue- rogue can take hawkgirl 50/50 of the time might give the slight majority to hawkgirl.

gambit- he is the wild card here he can still defeat everyone here without his abilities. in comics it is hard to separate what is his mutant abilities and what is just pure skill. being human he would still be a high peak human. bats could take him down but i give the slight majority to gambit.


jean- she may be able to avoid and counter the first initial attacks but gets taken down by everyone in DC.

ironman- is just a playboy with a few lesson under his belt he gets taken down by everybody but wally west.

thor- has thousands upon thousands of yrs worth of warriors combat he can defeat supes with very little effort. thor can might get taken down by diana but not likely due to his size and strength coupled with his experienced.

hawkeye- he is recently become a bad@$$ as ronin he can beat everyone but bats. bats would tear him a new as will diana.

capt.- is a soldier with yrs of combat and MA skills he can beat everyone even at olympic lvl but he is not good enough to compete with bats or diana.

wonderman- williams is a brute fighter he gets taken down by bats supes, diana and john steward.

scarlet witch- she cant beat anyone here this is and easy win for wally, john and hawkgirl.

overall the xmen avengers win by sheer numbers over the jla.

I give the edge to the X-men, except for Jean they are all very good fighters and able to function as a team.

Perhaps Jean can flash her boobs to distract the other teams since they are almost all male?

Jla.

Yo.

Originally posted by Raptor22
no cap does not get the serum but hes still a soldier with years of training and experience, as for wolverine when i said no weapons i figured that would imply no adamantium my bad for not being specific, and as for thor i meant his normal body and fighting knowledge but with out his powers. what u dont think donald with his pimp cane could do any damage

Cap's "years of training and experience" amount to just *wat* exactly??

he was created after Pearl Harbor, trained for a few months initially then sent out into the battle field. now, while I'll grant that he picked up a thing or 2 between his birth and being frozen, its not like he was in the "Fuk Sum Won Up" -dojo every other day; if anything Id say that Bats & Logan have prolly demonstrated more legitimate training in some MA-school or other, more so than Cap.

NOT that he hasnt had any instruction in MA's, but if U were to ask me to place them all on a scale, Id say it would be Bats>Logan>Cap in skill.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



Cap's "years of training and experience" amount to just *wat* exactly??

he was created after Pearl Harbor, trained for a few months initially then sent out into the battle field. now, while I'll grant that he picked up a thing or 2 between his birth and being frozen, its not like he was in the "Fuk Sum Won Up" -dojo every other day; if anything Id say that Bats & Logan have prolly demonstrated more legitimate training in some MA-school or other, more so than Cap.

NOT that he hasnt had any instruction in MA's, but if U were to ask me to place them all on a scale, Id say it would be Bats>Logan>Cap in skill.




Tazer

he has had alot of training all over his life. but his skill is more that is just really good then that he studied things

i am starting to doubt that ppl are reading the set up here.

x-men >>> avengers>>jla

JLA. Most of the members posted are very skilled. WW, Superman, Batman, and John.

Some people has little knowledge about the characters in this battle. Xmen take this 10/10 and easily.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
JLA. Most of the members posted are very skilled. WW, Superman, Batman, and John.

wolverine alone can take on Superman, John, and wonder woman and kill them. This is a none fight.

the most valuable players here is both wolverine and gambit.

and they are both hoggin the title for MVP

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
the most valuable players here is both wolverine and gambit.

and theyare both hoggin the title for MVP

Naah, its not just Wolverine and gambit, Storm is also included, she's a great martial artist. Lets not forget she out fought marrow without even using her powers and then she beat cyclops the f*** up and embarrassed him without using her powers (cyclops was using his optic blast).

Then the rest of the xmen that is on this list has been through training throughout there time on the xmen and has also been trained by wolverine and SHOWS this throughout all of there battle.

Xmen 10/10

Yo.

personally, I see Bats & WW holding it down for the JLA against most of the other 2 teams........but it would really just be them when it comes to straight-up MA skillz.

I dont consider Storm a martial artist, even tho shes shows to be a good combatant; same for Gambit.

Thor should be a HELL of a fighter, and I'll allow that Hawkeye could likely hold his own too.

no matter wat tho, no team is taking this easily, so anybody trying to play that card needs to re-think things.




Tazer

Rogue is actually very skilled, with their powers removed she and Gambit once easily fought their way out of a bar full of armed thugs in Xtreme x-men.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

personally, I see Bats & WW holding it down for the JLA against most of the other 2 teams........but it would really just be them when it comes to straight-up MA skillz.

I dont consider Storm a martial artist, even tho shes shows to be a good combatant; same for Gambit.

Thor should be a HELL of a fighter, and I'll allow that Hawkeye could likely hold his own too.

no matter wat tho, no team is taking this easily, so anybody trying to play that card needs to re-think things.


this is a none fight, Wolverine could take out 3 members of the jla (not including batman) by himself. Gambit and storm or rogue can stalemate bats until wolverine is done, the rest of the jla are none factors. The avengers are none factors except thor but he cant hold an entire team by himself.



Tazer

this is a none fight, Wolverine could take out 3 members of the jla (not including batman) by himself. Gambit and storm or rogue can stalemate bats until wolverine is done, the rest of the jla are none factors. The avengers are none factors except thor but he cant hold an entire team by himself.

Right. It's not like Steve or Clint are martial artists or anything...

cap with no sss doesnt hold a candle to either teams elite fighters also ronin is not a elite MA fighter either. :P

Yo.

Originally posted by Mshinu
Rogue is actually very skilled, with their powers removed she and Gambit once easily fought their way out of a bar full of armed thugs in Xtreme x-men.

1 showing does not raise a persons status from C-list to high B; only multiple & constant showings.

MOST heroes have showings like that, especially if theyve been around a few years. the Xmen are no diff.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



1 showing does not raise a persons status from C-list to high B; only multiple & constant showings.

MOST heroes have showings like that, especially if theyve been around a few years. the Xmen are no diff.




Tazer

She has numerous of showings.

Yo.

Originally posted by carver9
She has numerous of showings.

being de-powered and holding off multitudes of armed thugs thru use of great skill??

news to me; plz share if U will/dont mind?




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.
being de-powered and holding off multitudes of armed thugs thru use of great skill??

news to me; plz share if U will/dont mind?

Tazer

The one I was refering to is from X-treme x-men 5
Lost my copy however so I am unable to scan.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



being de-powered and holding off multitudes of armed thugs thru use of great skill??

news to me; plz share if U will/dont mind?




Tazer

It doesnt matter, the skill she has is enough to take some of the members on the jla.

Yo.

Originally posted by Mshinu
The one I was refering to is from X-treme x-men 5
Lost my copy however so I am unable to scan.

ok, np. not trying to make ya jump thru hoops or anything........

Originally posted by carver9
It doesnt matter, the skill she has is enough to take some of the members on the jla.

so I'll take that as a resounding "NO, she doesnt have anything else to support this position" then? ok, np.






Tazer

Rogue is arguably on same MA level as Mistique.
So go read some X-Men Legacy.

Originally posted by Survivor19
Rogue is arguably on same MA level as Mistique.
So go read some X-Men Legacy.

would u put rogue above cyke skill wise

Yo.

Originally posted by Survivor19
Rogue is arguably on same MA level as Mistique.
So go read some X-Men Legacy.

any particular ish # I should pay attention to?

not that I this affects Rogues *single* showing mind ya.....




Tazer

I haven`t read the issues myself but summaries have described Rogue displaying "exceptional" h2h skill while depowered in X-treme x-men 32-35 and 41-42 as well.

Anyway I take back what I said about Jean being useless, as an original X-men she will have training on par with the others. Physically weak maybe but an experienced MAist is always a force to be reckoned with and can easily take out far stronger unskilled opponents. That goes for Cap without the serum and Wanda too (she has serious training hasen`t she?)

The xmen win this with a stomp and its all due to the danger room, shiar technology. They train EVERY day under some heavy pressure THEN they also receive training from wolverine which has been shown numerous of times.

this is a none fight.

Originally posted by carver9
The xmen win this with a stomp and its all due to the danger room, shiar technology. They train EVERY day under some heavy pressure THEN they also receive training from wolverine which has been shown numerous of times.

this is a none fight.

And none of their training holds a candle to Batman or WW. Also, let's not forget that the only person on the field with more experience than WW is Thor. I don't see anyone on the field being more skilled than these 2. Add in Supes, who has sparred with Wondy quite often and that makes a formidable 3-some.

Originally posted by carver9
wolverine alone can take on Superman, John, and wonder woman and kill them. This is a none fight.

Absolutely not.

throw in ppl like thor,wolverine gambit to match them in skills the rest of the JLA fold like lawn chairs allowing the rest of the ppl to gang on them.. :P

the only x-man that would last against diana or bats is logan. the rest get wiped out.

comes down to jla and avengers, imo. maybe the jla can do it, but im not sure. the numbers involved in taking down the x-men and the also rans might put bruce and diana at a disadvantage.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
throw in ppl like thor,wolverine to match them in skills the rest of the JLA fold like lawn chairs allowing the rest of the ppl to gang on them.. :P

1. Arguable whether either can "match" them in skills.
2. They aren't on the same team
3. Supes isn't folding like a lawn chair.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
And none of their training holds a candle to Batman or WW. Also, let's not forget that the only person on the field with more experience than WW is Thor. I don't see anyone on the field being more skilled than these 2. Add in Supes, who has sparred with Wondy quite often and that makes a formidable 3-some.

didnt bat beat ww in a spar

WW, aint out fighting wolverine or cap.

Originally posted by Raoul
the only x-man that would last against diana or bats is logan. the rest get wiped out.

comes down to jla and avengers, imo.

I agree.

the marvel ppl would more then likely go after the unknown team first ppl for fighting each other.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Absolutely not.

Yes he could. Wonder woman isnt as great as you're making her out to be.

Originally posted by carver9
Yes he could. Wonder woman isnt as great as you're making her out to be.

both superman and john are decent fighters. throw in diana, and logan becomes a centuries old punching bag.

Originally posted by carver9
didnt bat beat ww in a spar

Your point being?

WW, aint out fighting wolverine or cap.

Yes, she is. The only person more skilled than her is Batman. They are on the same team.

Originally posted by carver9
Yes he could. Wonder woman isnt as great as you're making her out to be.

And you are seriously underestimating her amazon training, not to mention all of the experience that she has.

Originally posted by Raoul
both superman and john are decent fighters. throw in diana, and logan becomes a centuries old punching bag.

LOL, good one

I dont understand where you're getting this from when Slade and Bats has great showings against her even with her using her powers.

you over estimating WW bats and definitely "supes" and are seriously underestimating logan, gambit, cap and thor.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
you over estimating WW bats and definitely "supes" and are seriously underestimating logan, gambit, cap and thor.

I agree even though they are decent fighters, I dont put them at even half of what wolverine is. Bats is wolverine only comp on the jla.

Until I see Wonder woman or superman fight 100's on hand ninjas without getting touched (without the aid of powers) then I would compare them to logan.

Originally posted by carver9
LOL, good one

I dont understand where you're getting this from when Slade and Bats has great showings against her even with her using her powers.

batman does well against pretty much everyone. using him to try and illustrate any sort of low showing is stupid.

slade took down half a dozen members/former members of the JLA single handed. it's not a low showing.

she has plenty of decent feats, and is a master of all forms of armed and unarmed amazon combat.

Hell, wolverine has fought both lady deathstrike and omega red clawless and powerless at the same time and did good and people think that diana, superman, and a gl is going to hold him off, yeah right.

Originally posted by Raoul
batman does well against pretty much everyone. using him to try and illustrate any sort of low showing is stupid.

slade took down half a dozen members/former members of the JLA single handed. it's not a low showing.

she has plenty of decent feats, and is a master of all forms of armed and unarmed amazon combat.

I understand that, just like I understand that thor is a master of all asgardian battle technique but rid of of all of his powers and he would get mud stomped by wolverine and easily.

Originally posted by carver9
LOL, good one

I dont understand where you're getting this from when Slade and Bats has great showings against her even with her using her powers.

Batman disagrees with you.

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/08/07/1230093_508x800.jpg
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/08/07/1230096_300x564.jpg

We could also show her sparring with JLA at once. . .

Great showings?

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/07/08/1229774_500x769.jpg
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/07/08/1229775_500x392.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
Hell, wolverine has fought both lady deathstrike and omega red clawless and powerless at the same time and did good and people think that diana, superman, and a gl is going to hold him off, yeah right.

lowballing again?

Originally posted by carver9
I understand that, just like I understand that thor is a master of all asgardian battle technique but rid of of all of his powers and he would get mud stomped by wolverine and easily.

diana has plenty of h2h feats. they're in her comics and they're in the respect thread.

Originally posted by Raoul
lowballing again?



diana has plenty of h2h feats. they're in her comics and they're in the respect thread.

Who am I low balling? Wolverine has plenty of showings without his powers that anyone on the jla roster couldnt replicate.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Batman disagrees with you.

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/08/07/1230093_508x800.jpg
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/08/07/1230096_300x564.jpg

We could also show her sparring with JLA at once. . .

Great showings?

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/07/08/1229774_500x769.jpg
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/07/08/1229775_500x392.jpg

I cant pull these scans up at work, I'll wait until I get home to look at them.

Originally posted by carver9
Who am I low balling? Wolverine has plenty of showings without his powers that anyone on the jla roster couldnt replicate.

not even batman or diana?

Originally posted by Raoul
not even batman or diana?

nope not even them.

Originally posted by Raoul
not even batman or diana?

batman, yes, diana no and Diana is one of my favorite characters and I would still say no to this. She has some great showings with her powers but I dont where you're getting any kind of idea that she's on wolverine league fighting wise.

i think this would be very close the jla and avengers i feel have the advantage in the top tier level. while logan is on right up there with cap and bats the next best the x men have isnt anywhere near thor or ww skill. although the xmen have better depth jean and rouge are probaly beating the likes of wanda,stark with a bad heart, or wally. the best shot for the x men is for their weaker members beat the other teams weaker members quick and help out against the previous mentioned top tier people

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
nope not even them.

pr1983

Originally posted by carver9
batman, yes, diana no and Diana is one of my favorite characters and I would still say no to this. She has some great showings with her powers but I dont where you're getting any kind of idea that she's on wolverine league fighting wise.

you said her, superman and john stewart. isn't the same thing as just her.

this has nothing to do with the fight but i wanted to say this was the first thread i have started and it got a bigger response than i imagined. i just wanted to thank u all for taking the time and showing an interest.

Originally posted by Raptor22
i think this would be very close the jla and avengers i feel have the advantage in the top tier level. while logan is on right up there with cap and bats the next best the x men have isnt anywhere near thor or ww skill. although the xmen have better depth jean and rouge are probaly beating the likes of wanda,stark with a bad heart, or wally. the best shot for the x men is for their weaker members beat the other teams weaker members quick and help out against the previous mentioned top tier people

gambit is almost as skilled as anyone on the battle field along with rogue and storm.

Xmen have to many martial artist to even think this is a fight.

Originally posted by Raoul
pr1983



you said her, superman and john stewart. isn't the same thing as just her.

Wonder woman AMOST even things out. If me and you fought bruce lee, how many licks do you think we'll get (thats what supes and john is compared to logan in skills). They would get taken out quick in my opinion, adding wonder woman would just make the fight last a little longer but not long enough to make a difference.

Originally posted by carver9
Wonder woman AMOST even things out. If me and you fought bruce lee, how many licks do you think we'll get (thats what supes and john is compared to logan in skills). They would get taken out quick in my opinion, adding wonder woman would just make the fight last a little longer but not long enough to make a difference.

that's a terrible analogy.

superman is skilled enough to use pressure points in combat effectively.

john was a marine sniper.

they might not beat logan, but he won't put them down in seconds.

even if you want to argue that logan is superior to her, which is fine, it's not quite the huge gap you make it out to be.

the three of them would take him. HARD.

like its bn said logan's none powered fighting feats exceed diana's and bats capabilities.

logan has defeated 1000's of ninjas with a burned out HF and only took one kick to the face in a close quarter battle.

logan was depowered and survived a fight with omega red and lady D with only a few scratchs and a stab to the foot.

logan has casually bn seen fighting 100's of ninjas with little effort or strain without taking injury.

a pre wolverine logan has beatin ogun his master with wooden swords.

i dont see bats or WW and definitely not supes being able to do that without wpns or powers

Originally posted by Raoul
that's a terrible analogy.

superman is skilled enough to use pressure points in combat effectively.

john was a marine sniper.

they might not beat logan, but he won't put them down in seconds.

even if you want to argue that logan is superior to her, which is fine, it's not quite the huge gap you make it out to be.#

the three of them would take him. HARD.

I already agree that supes is skilled but he's not skilled enough, especially with his showings when he was depowered, getting almost beat to death by lex, struggling to take out 3 common thugs. John, he's skilled also but he's "D" level skilled.

Do you think Wonder woman can take on 10 hand ninjas without her powers, you can use the 3 of them if you want?

Do you think the 3 of them can fight sabertooth powerless?

Do you think the 3 of them can take on omega red and deathstrike powerless.

I dont.

Originally posted by carver9
Wonder woman AMOST even things out. If me and you fought bruce lee, how many licks do you think we'll get (thats what supes and john is compared to logan in skills). They would get taken out quick in my opinion, adding wonder woman would just make the fight last a little longer but not long enough to make a difference. but if you me and chuck norris fought bruce chuck could stalemate him long enough for us to get in some cheap shots to hurt him. ps sorry if the quote thing doesnt come out right im posting from my cell

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
like its bn said logan's none powered fighting feats exceed diana's and bats capabilities.

logan has defeated 1000's of ninjas with a burned out HF and only took one kick to the face in a close quarter battle.

logan was depowered and survived a fight with omega red and lady D with only a few scratchs and a stab to the foot.

logan has casually bn seen fighting 100's of ninjas with little effort or strain without taking injury.

a pre wolverine logan has beatin ogun his master with wooden swords.

i dont see bats or WW and definitely not supes being able to do that without wpns or powers

Too true.

wolverine can easily defeat john in combat with less then a single pressure point attack. john being a marine sniper doesnt mean anything. i am a marine and arty and know first hand snipers dont get extensive h2h training to even slow down someone like logan.

scott could easily defeat john in h2h combat with his judo he has defeated a small group of thugs with his eyes close using his MA skills.

logan, cap's, gambit and the DC MA fighters skills may not be enough to take either side down but its enough to keep them occupied for back up to arrive to help.

Originally posted by Raptor22
Originally posted by carver9
Wonder woman AMOST even things out. If me and you fought bruce lee, how many licks do you think we'll get (thats what supes and john is compared to logan in skills). They would get taken out quick in my opinion, adding wonder woman would just make the fight last a little longer but not long enough to make a difference. but if you me and chuck norris fought bruce chuck could stalemate him long enough for us to get in some cheap shots to hurt him. ps sorry if the quote thing doesnt come out right im posting from my cell

and who is chuck norris because diana sure the hell isnt?

Originally posted by carver9
Wonder woman AMOST even things out. If me and you fought bruce lee, how many licks do you think we'll get (thats what supes and john is compared to logan in skills). They would get taken out quick in my opinion, adding wonder woman would just make the fight last a little longer but not long enough to make a difference.


This is such a ridiculous analogy that it doesn't warrant a response.


Do you know what her Amazon training entails? You also have to acknowledge that she has vastly more experience than he does.

Superman also is skilled as has a ton of experience training with WW and fighting along side her in Asgard.

You can argue that Logan is more skilled if you want. (I happen to think he isn't but that is my opinion). You cannot argue, however, that Logan could take her PLUS Supes or MM at the same time. That is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
wolverine can easily defeat john in combat with less then a single pressure point attack. john being a marine sniper doesnt mean anything. i am a marine and arty and know first hand snipers dont get extensive h2h training to even slow down someone like logan.

scott could easily defeat john in h2h combat with his judo he has defeated a small group of thugs with his eyes close using his MA skills.

logan and the DC MA fighters skills may not be enough to take either side down but its enough to keep them occupied for back to arrive.

and the xmen backup is MUCH more fluent in martial arts then anyone on the battlefield. Besides bats or wonder woman, who is taking out gambit?

Originally posted by carver9
gambit is almost as skilled as anyone on the battle field along with rogue and storm.

Xmen have to many martial artist to even think this is a fight.

Indeed, all of them are far above being just a "decent" fighter. Cyclops have been described as being easily able to take out six men while blindfolded. Jean have the same training. Storm have beaten him. Rogue and Gambit takes on dozens of armed attackers without taking a scratch. Wolvie is world class. Add Cyke organizing them and I don`t see them loosing a significant number of bouts.

Originally posted by carver9
I already agree that supes is skilled but he's not skilled enough, especially with his showings when he was depowered, getting almost beat to death by lex, struggling to take out 3 common thugs. John, he's skilled also but he's "D" level skilled.

Do you think Wonder woman can take on 10 hand ninjas without her powers, you can use the 3 of them if you want?

Do you think the 3 of them can fight sabertooth powerless?

Do you think the 3 of them can take on omega red and deathstrike powerless.

I dont.

lex is well trained, and clark has taken on gangs of thugs without his powers and won. you have to use balanced feats, not low showings.

you can't use ABC logic. you're assuming that a single hand ninja is more skilled than any of the three, when guys like cyclops would pwn hand ninjas.

and yes, wonder woman would take 10 hand ninjas without her powers.

logan with no powers would have no chance against sabertooth if the man was powered, same with omega red.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
This is such a ridiculous analogy that it doesn't warrant a response.


Do you know what her Amazon training entails? You also have to acknowledge that she has vastly more experience than he does.

Superman also is skilled as has a ton of experience training with WW and fighting along side her in Asgard.

You can argue that Logan is more skilled if you want. (I happen to think he isn't but that is my opinion). You cannot argue, however, that Logan could take her PLUS Supes or MM at the same time. That is ridiculous.

He has fought MUCH worse then them without his powers and did just fine. Logan should curb stomp them since he is a "A" list fighters and one of the best fighters there is.

Originally posted by Raoul
lex is well trained, and clark has taken on gangs of thugs without his powers and won. you have to use balanced feats, not low showings.

you can't use ABC logic. you're assuming that a single hand ninja is more skilled than any of the three, when guys like cyclops would pwn hand ninjas.

and yes, wonder woman would take 10 hand ninjas without her powers.

logan with no powers would have no chance against sabertooth if the man was powered, same with omega red.

Well feats shows different since he DID fight them without his powers.

What feats are you using that makes you think Lex is so much of a good fighter that he'll hold a powerless logan off.

Can you PLEASE show me something that makes you think that wonder woman is as skilled as logan is combat wise.

Originally posted by Raoul
lex is well trained, and clark has taken on gangs of thugs without his powers and won. you have to use balanced feats, not low showings.

you can't use ABC logic. you're assuming that a single hand ninja is more skilled than any of the three, when guys like cyclops would pwn hand ninjas.

and yes, wonder woman would take 10 hand ninjas without her powers.

logan with no powers would have no chance against sabertooth if the man was powered, same with omega red.


logan used a breather to keep the death spores from effecting him. he used his skills to keep away and dodge attacks as well as give them without being grabbed. overall the point was that he didnt win, its that he survived the encounter and showed real high lvl fighting skills when it's required.

Originally posted by carver9
He has fought MUCH worse then them without his powers and did just fine. Logan should curb stomp them since he is a "A" list fighters and one of the best fighters there is.

There is a problem with your rationale. You assume that WW does not display her skill when she has her powers. How do you think she is able to last against opponents like Supes who are stronger, faster, etc? It is her superior skill.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
There is a problem with your rationale. You assume that WW does not display her skill when she has her powers. How do you think she is able to last against opponents like Supes who are stronger, faster, etc? It is her superior skill.

she uses her fast reaction time to block and avoid attacks from supes who is relatively inexperience in combat when it comes to her.

do you really see a powerless supes defeat a gang of ninjas?

do you believe ww can defeat a 100 ninjas by herself without powers?

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
There is a problem with your rationale. You assume that WW does not display her skill when she has her powers. How do you think she is able to last against opponents like Supes who are stronger, faster, etc? It is her superior skill.

Supes is stronger but by a small degree which really wouldnt make a difference. Faster is debatable and it has been said that wonder woman reflexes>supes. The only real advantage supes has over wonder woman is his heat vision and ice breath whereas I agree, wonder woman is a better fight BUT that still dont put her on the levels of people like cap and wolverine

Bruce and Diana clean house.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Bruce and Diana clean house.

Yeah right.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Bruce and Diana clean house.



okay, does this site really allow such comments?

Who's gonna stop them. There biggest threat by far is Rogers. I dout Logan will be the same w/o his healing and adamantium bones. Cyclops isn't on there level either.

I'm not saying they's solo I'm just saying they will play ba huge part in JLA's victory. Just my opinion though.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Who's gonna stop them. There biggest threat by far is Rogers. I dout Logan will be the same w/o his healing and adamantium bones. Cyclops isn't on there level either.

I'm not saying they's solo I'm just saying they will play ba huge part in JLA's victory. Just my opinion though.

Naah, you're opinion is showing that you know little about the xmen.

very little and very irritating.

The X-men seem to have the most well rounded fighters of the 3 groups with Wolverine, Gambit, Cyclops and Storm. The Avengers of course with Cap and Thor would be my second place winners. Batman would have to go it alone for the Justice League. Wait, are they depowered or they just can't use their powers..? i.e. super strength or flight.

oh, Wonder Woman can help Batman

they are all depowered, otherwise no one could injure supes and he would beat everyone while casually walking to each enemy.

alright

Originally posted by carver9
Supes is stronger but by a small degree which really wouldnt make a difference. Faster is debatable and it has been said that wonder woman reflexes>supes. The only real advantage supes has over wonder woman is his heat vision and ice breath whereas I agree, wonder woman is a better fight BUT that still dont put her on the levels of people like cap and wolverine

What ever happened to the days when Wonder Woman had to use her invisible jet to fly and only had her stupid lasoo. Now she's on par with Superman? Blasphemy

Originally posted by Astanax
What ever happened to the days when Wonder Woman had to use her invisible jet to fly and only had her stupid lasoo. Now she's on par with Superman? Blasphemy

Equal rights happened

Originally posted by Astanax
What ever happened to the days when Wonder Woman had to use her invisible jet to fly and only had her stupid lasoo. Now she's on par with Superman? Blasphemy

Well I think its good that wonder woman is his equal, women deserve respect to and she's one of the first female heros so whos better to choose.

By the way, on the forum, wonder woman is underrated. Her showings is throwed out the window or its either called pis.

well she shouldnt be able to take high heat vision to the face, she was never suppose to be that durable.

im suprised the avengers aren't getting more love. im not saying they would win a majority but they could pull a few out. caps as skilled as anyone, thors still a viking warrior with way more experience than anyone else here, hawkeye like batman has the advantage of always fighting without powers and wonderman is still big and strong (marvel has him listed at 6'2 380lbs dont know if thats right though) and hes probaly trained with cap and hawkeye being part of the avengers

Well I do give the Avengers 2nd place after the X guys and gals. Not a close 2nd tho.

I'm not much into DC, but there seem to be atleast 4 different comics starring or costarring Superman. Are they all intertwined with one another?

Originally posted by Raptor22
im suprised the avengers aren't getting more love. im not saying they would win a majority but they could pull a few out. caps as skilled as anyone, thors still a viking warrior with way more experience than anyone else here, hawkeye like batman has the advantage of always fighting without powers and wonderman is still big and strong (marvel has him listed at 6'2 380lbs dont know if thats right though) and hes probaly trained with cap and hawkeye being part of the avengers

Him training with Cap and Hawkeye is heresay. He would probably rely on his powers and strength being that he is a super power. People like Bats and Hawkeye and even Cyclops (although to a lesser degree than Bats) are used to fighting without super anything. Most of the X-men listed have a history of martial arts. Thor from the Avengers has thousands of years experience, but would have to adapt seeing as though all of his strength would be gone therefore, he couldn't bfr anyone with a single punch.

thor could still ko a handful of ppl with a power punch.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
thor could still ko a handful of ppl with a power punch.

I think anyone on the list could KO the others with a well placed hook to the jaw or a choke hold. Why does Wiki list Batman at the peak of human capability?

because DC has a different description of what it means to be peak from marvel.

Originally posted by rotiart
team avengers. Cap is equal to batman... About... Unlss you takeout the super soldier serum which makes cap a 90 lb weakling
Without powers wolverine has neither the strngth or healing factor for his skeleton and did with minutes from it

Thor without powers wouldbe donald Blake which means he gets raped by everyone...

If cap gets ss avengers win. Hawkeye is the new cap.

Oherwise batman solis both teams by himself
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
W/o the syrum Cap would wither away and look like someone who hasn't eaten in 3 months. When he died the SSS reversed itself and he looked like he had starved to death. W/o the SSS Jean Grey could take him out.
Not really. Cap's had the SSS completely filtered out of his bloodstream before and he didn't lose any weight to my knowledge. In his own body without the SSS he's beaten Crossbones in a 1 on 1 fight, and taken down the most of the Serpent Society. When his mind was transplanted into the aged body of the Red Skull(before Red Skull had a cloned body of Cap's) he took down a couple of the Avengers(I think it was Goliath and Yellowjacket).

Cap can take at least 5/10 from anyone else in this thread and pull a decent majority against pretty much anyone but Bats and Logan given the thread stipulations.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
because DC has a different description of what it means to be peak from marvel.

So the "peak" standards for DC are lower than Marvels

Originally posted by Astanax
So the "peak" standards for DC are lower than Marvels

most marvel fans say yes, some DC fanboys would say barely if any noticeable difference.

Originally posted by Astanax
I think anyone on the list could KO the others with a well placed hook to the jaw or a choke hold. Why does Wiki list Batman at the peak of human capability? Because he is. He can run as fast or faster than the best olympic atheletes, same for lifting, jumping, swimming, etc, etc, etc. Even simpler things, like holding his breath, he does the maximum of human capacity.

see what i mean?

Originally posted by Juntai
Because he is. He can run as fast or faster than the best olympic atheletes, same for lifting, jumping, swimming, etc, etc, etc. Even simpler things, like holding his breath, he does the maximum of human capacity.

yeah that would be lower than Marvel's standards

There is no way possible that Batman can run faster or even as fast as the best Olympic athletes. I don't mean this to sound offensive or stereotypical, but the black dudes can run so much faster than the white dudes. It is what it is.

Originally posted by Astanax
Him training with Cap and Hawkeye is heresay. He would probably rely on his powers and strength being that he is a super power. People like Bats and Hawkeye and even Cyclops (although to a lesser degree than Bats) are used to fighting without super anything. Most of the X-men listed have a history of martial arts. Thor from the Avengers has thousands of years experience, but would have to adapt seeing as though all of his strength would be gone therefore, he couldn't bfr anyone with a single punch.

No, it's not.

Wonderman was actually shown as seeking Cap out for training during his solo series.

Originally posted by Silent Master
No, it's not.

Wonderman was actually shown as seeking Cap out for training during his solo series.

You got me Silent Master. But you would have to train for years to perfect the art. The basics won't help you if you don't have the reaction and instinct to block or counter. Even takedowns wouldn't help if you don't know what to do from there on. He has the size and weight advantage though. That alone should help against the less experienced fighters. It would be useless against Batman or Wolverine or Cyclops though.

Even before that training, Simon was a fairly good fighter/brawler, he's even had the advantage in a fight w/Thor, that is until Thor used a charged hammer shot.

I'm not saying that he's going to be able to beat any of the major players like Cap/Bat/Wolverine, just that he isn't going down easily.

williams can easily be taken down by gambit, cyke and ronin

And while their triple teaming him, who on their teams are getting double teamed?

Originally posted by Silent Master
And while their triple teaming him, who on their teams are getting double teamed?

i meant individually and easily... they are more skilled then williams they are on another lvl of MA skills especially Gambit.. gambit's one hit ko on williams regardless of size.

I don't see any of them one-shotting Simon.

Besides, they'd be busy fighting the other high level fighters on the other teams.

Gambit is more likely then the rest to one shot williams for a ko but more then likely it would be a combo of strikes before william falls and gambit walks to help the other high end fighters on his team.

Originally posted by carver9
Well feats shows different since he DID fight them without his powers.

What feats are you using that makes you think Lex is so much of a good fighter that he'll hold a powerless logan off.

Can you PLEASE show me something that makes you think that wonder woman is as skilled as logan is combat wise.

so using a low feat cancels out the more consistent ones? no thanks. his feats say he's a skilled fighter. end of story.

i never said lex was logan level, nor did i ever claim superman was either.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
logan used a breather to keep the death spores from effecting him. he used his skills to keep away and dodge attacks as well as give them without being grabbed. overall the point was that he didnt win, its that he survived the encounter and showed real high lvl fighting skills when it's required.

so he was basically on the defensive the entire time?

Originally posted by Wild Shadow


okay, does this site really allow such comments?

as opposed to posts like carver's?

it's only fair if we allow sillyness on both sides.

Originally posted by carver9
Naah, you're opinion is showing that you know little about the xmen.

cyclops would be lucky to match superman, and both bats and diana are a fair bit above clark when it comes to skill.

cyke is arguably on gambit and storm's level, too.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
well she shouldnt be able to take high heat vision to the face, she was never suppose to be that durable.

why not? she has very impressive durability.

Guys, get serious and stop using "OR and Lady D' as feat.
They weren't trying to kill him.
And he got curbstomped...

Originally posted by Raoul
so using a low feat cancels out the more consistent ones? no thanks. his feats say he's a skilled fighter. end of story.

i never said lex was logan level, nor did i ever claim superman was either.



so he was basically on the defensive the entire time?



as opposed to posts like carver's?

it's only fair if we allow sillyness on both sides.



cyclops would be lucky to match superman, and both bats and diana are a fair bit above clark when it comes to skill.

cyke is arguably on gambit and storm's level, too.



why not? she has very impressive durability.

You're so wrong for your comment above.

I never said that supes wasnt a decent fighter, he is but I think the entire xmen line up in this battle is more skill then what he is except jean grey.

I asked you what showings does wonder woman has that makes you think she's on logans level skill wise. People on logans level gives her a fight WITH her powers, without them, naah, she's not even close to what logan is.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
supes- has a thousand yrs of barbarian combat.
batman- bats is still bats
ww- amazon warrior princes arguably still better then bats
wally- hyper active clown average fighting ability
jon stewart - prior marine with basic combat martial arts
hawk girl- still an alien warrior who relies on brutal form of combat with blunt wpns.


cyclops- tactiacal genius and judo master can make organize the team. he beats hawkgirl, john and wally.

storm- trained by logan and gambit. she beats, wally, john and hawkgirl.

logan- at his best MA fighting would tear through everyone here.

rogue- rogue can take hawkgirl 50/50 of the time might give the slight majority to hawkgirl.

gambit- he is the wild card here he can still defeat everyone here without his abilities. in comics it is hard to separate what is his mutant abilities and what is just pure skill. being human he would still be a high peak human. bats could take him down but i give the slight majority to gambit.


jean- she may be able to avoid and counter the first initial attacks but gets taken down by everyone in DC.

ironman- is just a playboy with a few lesson under his belt he gets taken down by everybody but wally west.

thor- has thousands upon thousands of yrs worth of warriors combat he can defeat supes with very little effort. thor can might get taken down by diana but not likely due to his size and strength coupled with his experienced.

hawkeye- he is recently become a bad@$$ as ronin he can beat everyone but bats. bats would tear him a new as will diana.

capt.- is a soldier with yrs of combat and MA skills he can beat everyone even at olympic lvl but he is not good enough to compete with bats or diana.

wonderman- williams is a brute fighter he gets taken down by bats supes, diana and john steward.

scarlet witch- she cant beat anyone here this is and easy win for wally, john and hawkgirl.

overall the xmen avengers win by sheer numbers over the jla.

this is mostly agreeable. I think Batman is the most dangerous ****er here. I'm giving it to the X-Men or JLA. Only saying JLA has a chance is mainly due to batman and Diana.

Originally posted by carver9
You're so wrong for your comment above.

I never said that supes wasnt a decent fighter, he is but I think the entire xmen line up in this battle is more skill then what he is except jean grey.

I asked you what showings does wonder woman has that makes you think she's on logans level skill wise.

YOU'RE going to tell ME i'm wrong? good one.

cyclops isn't on superman's level period, and he's comparable to both storm and gambit.

also, this:



is completely untrue.

unless cyke can beat or at least stalemate Daredevil or bade in H2H he is not on gambits lvl of MA fighting.

Originally posted by Raoul
YOU'RE going to tell ME i'm wrong? good one.

cyclops isn't on superman's level period, and he's comparable to both storm and gambit.

also, this:



is completely untrue.

This is why I was saying you were so wrong "as opposed to posts like carver's?" and this "it's only fair if we allow sillyness on both sides.". Your post was good, overrall and you know more about cyke then I do so if you think supes is the better then I agree but I still think that wolverine could walk through 3 members of the jla and gambit and storm is a wild card for the xmen, along with rogue. Jean and cyke, both are pretty decent.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
unless cyke can beat or at least stalemate Daredevil or bade in H2H he is not on gambits lvl of MA fighting. Gambit isn't on Daredevil's or Blade's level of MA

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
unless cyke can beat or at least stalemate Daredevil or bade in H2H he is not on gambits lvl of MA fighting.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Gambit isn't on Daredevil's or Blade's level of MA

bingo.

Originally posted by Raoul
lex is well trained, and clark has taken on gangs of thugs without his powers and won. you have to use balanced feats, not low showings.


I actually think I remember that I dont think he was completely depowered. Looks like ive actually read more Superman than I initially said.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Gambit isn't on Daredevil's or Blade's level of MA


gambit may not have beaten them but he did stalemate them so do you see cyke able to do the same thing?

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
gambit may not have beaten them but he did stalemate them so do you see cyke able to do the same thing? That's besides the point you made it seem as though Gambit is some superb Martial artist near Blade or Daredevil level which he isn't.

since the best fighters on each team would most likely fight eachother, batman, wolverine, and cap, gambit being probably the xmens #2 he would square off with the other teams #2's so the question is can he beat either ww or thor or possibly hawkeye

I say that that the x-men have the most well rounded fighters however the jla has top extremely skilled fighters and the avengers have one really good fighter in two others who are highly skilled which makes this a toss up in my opinion

say what you will but JLA will win this one
there is just too much diversity there

I will also say say that wolverine would be the first one dead
since all the characters are tired of his fanboyism they will surely dismember him first

JLA would take this for a majority.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
most marvel fans say yes, some DC fanboys would say barely if any noticeable difference.

Pretty obvious you don't know anything about Batman if you don't think Bruce's feats are "peak human".

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
nope not even them.

My edit timer ran out.

You actually claimed Wolverine's powerless feats are above Batman's feats? Batman's?

He doesn't know what he's talking about Batman is as close to peak human as can be threw sheer training.

Bump