Toxin vs. Daken

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Trackz
Toxin:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/23274/586159-toxin_3_super.jpg

vs.

Daken:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/25807/808503-8128new_storyimage2938638_full_super.jpg

StiltmanFTW
Daken.

Muramasa claws for the win.

Trackz
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Daken.

Muramasa claws for the win. how would they effect the symbiote?

carver9
Originally posted by Trackz
how would they effect the symbiote?

easily, if they could do something major to a healing factor then they should be able to rip toxin in half.

The Nuul
Toxin's HF is not the same as Logans or DPs.....

wannabe
Originally posted by carver9
easily, if they could do something major to a healing factor then they should be able to rip toxin in half.
What kind of logic is that supposed to be?

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Trackz
how would they effect the symbiote?

We have yet to see. But they'd affect the host, that's for sure. KO counts as a win, right?

The Nuul
Originally posted by wannabe
What kind of logic is that supposed to be?

Cav9s logic... roll eyes (sarcastic)

Trackz
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
We have yet to see. But they'd affect the host, that's for sure. KO counts as a win, right? yeah, but it'd be hard for daken to get to the host, and even if the symbiote couldnt heal the wound, I'm sure it could stop the bleeding

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by wannabe
What kind of logic is that supposed to be?

Well, they don't cut things. They splice them on the molecular level.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Trackz
yeah, but it'd be hard for daken to get to the host, and even if the symbiote couldnt heal the wound, I'm sure it could stop the bleeding

Symbiote itself would heal I presume, but healing his host could be a problem.

carver9
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Well, they don't cut things. They splice them on the molecular level.

Thats what I was trying to get at but I should of worded it a little better and if anything can bypass logans healing factor, it should do a number on a symbiote.

carver9
Originally posted by The Nuul
Cav9s logic... roll eyes (sarcastic)

you truly hate me dont you.

Trackz
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Symbiote itself would heal I presume, but healing his host could be a problem. couldn't it clog the wound?

The Nuul
Wonder how his Pheromone will work on the Symbiote.

Mshinu
Originally posted by Trackz
couldn't it clog the wound?

Internal bleeding?

Trackz
Originally posted by Mshinu
Internal bleeding? thats truee, this fight really go either way

Enyalus
Why would Daken even be able to hit him?


Toxin is much faster and more agile.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Trackz
couldn't it clog the wound?

I guess. But if some major organ got damaged, it would be nasty. Like Mshinu said, internal bleeding... and it's not even the worst-case scenario.

That's all assuming he would just stab Toxin... swipes would be more deadly.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Enyalus
Why would Daken even be able to hit him?


Toxin is much faster and more agile.

You're right, only the most powerful and badass villain ever, called Razorfist, could tag him vin

Enyalus
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You're right, only the most powerful and badass villain ever, called Razorfist, could tag him vin

thumb up Respect the fist with razors.


Fists with razors > fist with claws.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Enyalus
thumb up Respect the fist with razors.


Fists with razors > fist with claws.

Actually they are forearms with razors. Hey... you may be right big grin

forearm > fist

razor > claw

Razorforearm pwns 'em all eek!

Enyalus
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Razorforearm pwns 'em all eek!
Glad to see I've converted another to the cause. big grin

AlmightyKfish
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You're right, only the most powerful and badass villain ever, called Razorfist, could tag him vin

To be fair, he was toying with Razorfist b/c he was angry about RF murdering his father...

This depends on whether the pheremones would affect Toxin imo.

carver9
Originally posted by Enyalus
Why would Daken even be able to hit him?


Toxin is much faster and more agile.

and you're basing this off of confused

From recent showings, Daken seemed to fast for spiderman

The Nuul
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish


This depends on whether the pheremones would affect Toxin imo.

Thats what I wanna know.

Survivor19
Pheromones.
When Spidey starded sensing him, he tagged him just fine.

AlmightyKfish
Originally posted by carver9
and you're basing this off of confused

From recent showings, Daken seemed to fast for spiderman

No, he screwed up Spidy's perceptions so Spidy couldn't hit him, like he did for DP.

Once Spidy just relied on instict he easily tagged Daken.

carver9
Originally posted by Survivor19
Pheromones.
When Spidey starded sensing him, he tagged him just fine.

Before the pheromones Daken was moving to fast for spidey.

carver9
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
No, he screwed up Spidy's perceptions so Spidy couldn't hit him, like he did for DP.

Once Spidy just relied on instict he easily tagged Daken.

In the beginning, Daken was to fast for him, that happened throughout the fight. Spidey even said that Daken is as fast as his father.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Once Spidy just relied on instict he easily tagged Daken.

Daken could've done more than just messing up his vision erm

Trackz
Originally posted by carver9
In the beginning, Daken was to fast for him, that happened throughout the fight. Spidey even said that Daken is as fast as his father. I think that was his first impression, at the onset he was just striking out and missing, so his firsst assumption was that daken was too fast, that's what most people assume about daken at first, however he didn't realize until later about the pheromones.

carver9
Originally posted by Trackz
I think that was his first impression, at the onset he was just striking out and missing, so his firsst assumption was that daken was too fast, that's what most people assume about daken at first, however he didn't realize until later about the pheromones.

Naah, daken was physically outfight spidey and then he decided to use his pheromones to toy with him.

Spidey could have died during the onset of the battle if daken wasnt playing around.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Trackz
I think that was his first impression, at the onset he was just striking out and missing, so his firsst assumption was that daken was too fast, that's what most people assume about daken at first, however he didn't realize until later about the pheromones.

Fair enough.

Daken's still very fast. Much faster than Cyclops, for example.

carver9
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Fair enough.

Daken's still very fast. Much faster than Cyclops, for example.

Cyclops isnt fast confused

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by carver9
Cyclops isnt fast confused

He is on KMC biscuits

Just using him as an example... Daken easily outdid him and grabbed the Muramasa Blade first...

StiltmanFTW
In Origins #34 both Logan and Daken leaped for the blade with Akihiro grabbing it 1st and commenting on his father's poor speed... he got stabbed in the forearm at this very moment, though vin

carver9
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He is on KMC biscuits

Just using him as an example... Daken easily outdid him and grabbed the Muramasa Blade first...

That wasnt a nice feat though. Daken has speed and you all are underestimating him and using scans wrong.

Mindset
Daken isn't faster than Spiderman, carver.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by carver9
That wasnt a nice feat though. Daken has speed and you all are underestimating him and using scans wrong.

When Spidey used his impact web (is that what it's called...?), Daken vanished. And sneaked up on Spidey from behind. Thanks to his pheromones. Parker's head was even clouded with these green bubbles.

That's his trademark trick... he did the same to Cyber, DP, Logan...

His speed is comparable with Logan or DP. Tinkerer even commented that physiologically Daken was just like his father.

ankur29
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
When Spidey used his impact web (is that what it's called...?), Daken vanished. And sneaked up on Spidey from behind. Thanks to his pheromones. Parker's head was even clouded with these green bubbles.

That's his trademark trick... he did the same to Cyber, DP, Logan...

His speed is comparable with Logan or DP. Tinkerer even commented that physiologically Daken was just like his father.

daken's speed isn't comparable with logan , in their encounter where logan asks whether he has superspeed he flat out says no , i just trained to move as fast as i can, logasn got some enhanced speed
spidey has superhuman speed , his pheromones allow him to attack faster foes

spidey was flopping cause he was distorted daken says his peromones affect depth perception,visual acuity , SM was too much for daken wonce he relied on spider senses and that was after he was wounded messed

Originally posted by ankur29
ASM#597:

SM vs. Daken:

Skill and strength: SM still gets sliced by Daken, but he evades him and still beats him even after being distorted by Daken’s pheromones ability, SM wins by relying solely on spider sense, and smashing Daken into ground

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww156/ankur2113/th_Spider-Man597014.jpg http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww156/ankur2113/th_Spider-Man597015.jpg http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww156/ankur2113/th_Spider-Man597016.jpg http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww156/ankur2113/th_Spider-Man597017.jpg http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww156/ankur2113/th_Spider-Man597018.jpg http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww156/ankur2113/th_Spider-Man597019.jpg

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by ankur29
daken's speed isn't comparable with logan , in their encounter where logan asks whether he has superspeed he flat out says no , i just trained to move as fast as i can, logasn got some enhanced speed
spidey has superhuman speed , his pheromones allow him to attack faster foes

spidey was flopping cause he was distorted daken says his peromones affect depth perception,visual acuity , SM was too much for daken wonce he relied on spider senses and that was after he was wounded messed

1. That wasn't Wolverine, that was DP he was fighting with.

2. He said he wasn't faster than DP (as loathsome it is to admit...) But he didn't say he was slower, either erm

3. Daken can do much more than just affecting Parker's vision. He was holding back anyway.

StiltmanFTW
And did you even notice that Parker electrocuted him? Plot device FTW, how lame.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
And did you even notice that Parker electrocuted him? Plot device FTW, how lame.

Did you even notice that the electrical device was also used against Parker? Idiocy FTL, how lame.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Did you even notice that the electrical device was also used against Parker? Idiocy FTL, how lame.

"Used"? laughing out loud He web-swung into it.

Daken was tossed with Class 10 force and held with the webbing, that's a bit different, you know? erm

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
"Used"? laughing out loud He web-swung into it.

Daken was tossed with Class 10 force and held with the webbing, that's a bit different, you know? erm

What does the force matter? It's not the concussive force which makes a difference, but rather the ELECTRICITY.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
What does the force matter? It's not the concussive force which makes a difference, but rather the ELECTRICITY.

It matters, because before that he was softened up... smashed against the wall and then electrocuted... SM just bounced off that thing erm

Tinkerer stated that physiologically Daken is just like Logan. His skeleton isn't laced with adamantium, so I don't see how he could be slower...

Trackz
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It matters, because before that he was softened up... smashed against the wall and then electrocuted... SM just bounced off that thing erm

Tinkerer stated that physiologically Daken is just like Logan. His skeleton isn't laced with adamantium, so I don't see how he could be slower... well skaar and hulk are probably physiologically the same, but hulk is stronger than him

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Trackz
well skaar and hulk are probably physiologically the same, but hulk is stronger than him

I don't think they are, Skaar is half human mutate half Saakar.

carver9
Originally posted by ankur29
daken's speed isn't comparable with logan , in their encounter where logan asks whether he has superspeed he flat out says no , i just trained to move as fast as i can, logasn got some enhanced speed
spidey has superhuman speed , his pheromones allow him to attack faster foes

spidey was flopping cause he was distorted daken says his peromones affect depth perception,visual acuity , SM was too much for daken wonce he relied on spider senses and that was after he was wounded messed

Spiderman was dead in the beginning of the fight when daken decided to kick him instead of clawing him. The second scan is when Daken decided to use his pheromones (even though I dont think he needed to resort to that).

occultdestroyer
Originally posted by Enyalus
Why would Daken even be able to hit him?


Toxin is much faster and more agile.
The same reason why Wolverine slices Toxin into pieces

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by occultdestroyer
The same reason why Wolverine slices Toxin into pieces

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/4329/wolverineorigins10002.th.jpg

And given the fact the blade is magical, I wouldn't be surprised if it blocked symbiote's HF. Anyhow, it doesn't have to. All Daken has to do is injure its host...

AlmightyKfish
Originally posted by occultdestroyer
The same reason why Wolverine slices Toxin into pieces

Wolverine wouldn't slice Toxin to pieces. He wasn't even inconvenianced when Razor Fist shoved a foot long blade into his forearm.

But with the Muramasa claws, they will probably do far more damage, due to the durability not mattering as much due to the scale of the damage the Muramasa does...

Out of interest, what issue is it when Daken gains the Muramasa claws?

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Out of interest, what issue is it when Daken gains the Muramasa claws?

Wolverine: Origins #36

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/9227/wo36oroborosdcp026.th.jpg

Trackz
however, it's dangerous for daken to use the muramasa claw since it could be damaged and potentially kill him

Phoenix2001
All this talk about slicing Toxin to pieces is killing me... perhaps no one knows that the symbiote would easily reform after being cut. Even if the host is injured, the Symbiote would heal him almost instantly. Venom has show cased these abilities on countless occasions, so there's no reason to think that Toxin couldn't either.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Phoenix2001
All this talk about slicing Toxin to pieces is killing me... perhaps no one knows that the symbiote would easily reform after being cut. Even if the host is injured, the Symbiote would heal him almost instantly. Venom has show cased these abilities on countless occasions, so there's no reason to think that Toxin couldn't either.

Muramasa blade is a magical weapon that blocks the healing factor. While I'm not sure whether or not it would work on a symbiote, its host wouldn't be that lucky.

iceman24567
What if Daken cuts himself?

StiltmanFTW
Then he's screwed.

Phoenix2001
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Muramasa blade is a magical weapon that blocks the healing factor. While I'm not sure whether or not it would work on a symbiote, its host wouldn't be that lucky.

I don't see how the host would still suffer since the symbiote is the one doing the healing and not the host.

This is also Toxin we're talking about. His abilities are more advanced than Venom's and Carnage's.

AlmightyKfish
Wait, so if Toxin overpowered Daken and stabbed him with his own claws, he's basically screwed right?

iceman24567
Yeah thats what i was thinking.

ankur29
Originally posted by carver9
Spiderman was dead in the beginning of the fight when daken decided to kick him instead of clawing him. The second scan is when Daken decided to use his pheromones (even though I dont think he needed to resort to that).

i thought his pheromones were always in play messed

so u think daken without pheromones should be able to beat spidey?

i thought SM was significantly faster than the likes of daken sad

Trackz
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Wait, so if Toxin overpowered Daken and stabbed him with his own claws, he's basically screwed right? toxin might be able to snap the muramasa blade off

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Trackz
toxin might be able to snap the muramasa blade off

Muramasa claws don't count as the basic knowledge.

They sever the molecular bonds, grabbing them would be a foolish move.

Mindset
Couldn't the symbiote just reconnect the molecular bonds?

Trackz
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Muramasa claws don't count as the basic knowledge.

They sever the molecular bonds, grabbing them would be a foolish move. thats only if they cut you, you can grab a knife without being cut, but daken always seems hesitant in using them, it's not like he's going to break them out immediately since he could potentially harm himself as well.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Trackz
but daken always seems hesitant in using them,
erm

Trackz
Originally posted by Enyalus
erm ?

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Trackz
thats only if they cut you, you can grab a knife without being cut, but daken always seems hesitant in using them, it's not like he's going to break them out immediately since he could potentially harm himself as well.

They don't cut things. They splice them on the molecular level. It would be like grabbing a lightsaber...

Originally posted by Trackz
?

He just got them...

Mindset
So right now his claws are destroying his arm at the molecular level?

Enyalus
Originally posted by Mindset
So right now his claws are destroying his arm at the molecular level?
They're encased in an adamantium sheathe.

Mindset
Shouldn't they destroy the sheathe at the molecular level?

Enyalus
Originally posted by Mindset
Shouldn't they destroy the sheathe at the molecular level?
It's adamantium, "brah."

Mindset
With molecules.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Mindset
With molecules.
Prove it.



EDIT: Nevermind. I just remembered Fatal Attractions, lol.

Mindset
Proof

Enyalus
Originally posted by Mindset
Proof
Ghey.

Trackz
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He just got them... yeah and tinkerer warned him about using them and the damage that could result, he didn't use them on spiderman or maybe they weren't written in yet

Phoenix2001
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
would be like grabbing a lightsaber...


Seriously, you did not just say that... How is it possible that he could carry them then?

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Trackz
yeah and tinkerer warned him about using them and the damage that could result, he didn't use them on spiderman or maybe they weren't written in yet

They're not indestructible... but it takes a lot to damage the plasmic form they're made of. So far only Armor's forcefield proved to be too much for it.

Originally posted by Phoenix2001
Seriously, you did not just say that... How is it possible that he could carry them then?

He had the adamantium sheathes implanted in his forearms.

Phoenix2001
Not quite like a lightsaber then, is it?

Phantom Zone
Daken gets f*ked up.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Phoenix2001
Not quite like a lightsaber then, is it?

Lightsaber can cut through adamantium? Pics or it didn't happen stick out tongue

Phoenix2001
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Lightsaber can cut through adamantium? Pics or it didn't happen stick out tongue

Pure energy vs solid matter. Who takes this one? Hmmm... roll eyes (sarcastic)

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Phoenix2001
Pure energy vs solid matter. Who takes this one? Hmmm... roll eyes (sarcastic)

Damn, if only adamantium showed some resistance against energy blasts/blades sad

Trackz
a light saber can't cut adamantium..but the analogy between the muramasa blade and adamantium was poor, if the mura masa truely does cut at the molecular level it would pass right through the adamantium sheathes as easily as through bone, it needs a force to cut something and merely touching it won't result in major damage

Lord Feron
Originally posted by Phoenix2001
Pure energy vs solid matter. Who takes this one? Hmmm... roll eyes (sarcastic)

if you look closely at the battle between Vader and Luke near the end of return of the jedi twhen the Sith lord was chucked into the spaceship generator like a *****. You can see that the light saber fight on the bridge the side railing stopped the lightsaber. Either one of two things, either the lightsaber isn't meant to cut through everything r the railing was made of adamantium. Gonna put my bet on the adamantium smokin'



or.... the "dun' ****ed up"

Survivor19
I can't help by feel this discussion has gone off-topic.

Phoenix2001
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Damn, if only adamantium showed some resistance against energy blasts/blades sad

Now you're just being unfair...

SamZED
Toxin. Cutting the symbiote wont do Toxin any damage.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Trackz
a light saber can't cut adamantium..but the analogy between the muramasa blade and adamantium was poor, if the mura masa truely does cut at the molecular level it would pass right through the adamantium sheathes as easily as through bone, it needs a force to cut something and merely touching it won't result in major damage

Don't his claws pop out at 200 kilometers per hour? Adamantium is adamantium ahah

BTW, you might find interesting that other writer was convinced that the blade could cut through it.

Originally posted by Phoenix2001
Now you're just being unfair...

stick out tongue

Originally posted by SamZED
Toxin. Cutting the symbiote wont do Toxin any damage.

What about its host? The claws are magical now, capable of blocking the HF.

Trackz
wait since when is the mura masa blade magical?

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Trackz
wait since when is the mura masa blade magical?

no expression

Are you serious? It was forged from Wolverine's spirit. And if that's not enough for you, it was stated on panel that it's magic.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Toxin.

Trackz
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
no expression

Are you serious? It was forged from Wolverine's spirit. And if that's not enough for you, it was stated on panel that it's magic. when was that stated?

not that it would matter toxin doesnt have a healing factor

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Trackz
when was that stated?

not that it would matter toxin doesnt have a healing factor

Wolverine: Killing Made Simple one-shot.

Again, it wouldn't be able to heal its host.

AlmightyKfish
Originally posted by Trackz
when was that stated?

not that it would matter toxin doesnt have a healing factor

Toxin does have a HF...

He got stabbed in the arm by a foot long blade and was fine by the next panel or so.

SamZED
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

What about its host? The claws are magical now, capable of blocking the HF. Still wont kill him. Symbiotes can increase their mass so Daken wont even be able to reach the host. Besides symbiotes hf is not the same as Wolverines. The host itself cant heal its the symbiote who heals the host and I realy dont think that Dakens claws can block symbiotes ability to heal wounds.

Phoenix2001
Trying to slice the symbiote with any weapon would be like trying to slice water.

Trackz
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Wolverine: Killing Made Simple one-shot.

Again, it wouldn't be able to heal its host. ok just wondering thanks

Trackz
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Toxin does have a HF...

He got stabbed in the arm by a foot long blade and was fine by the next panel or so. because a character can heal, doesn't mea they have a healing factor, there are different type of healing and regeneration. a healing factor specifically refers to the mutant ability to rapidly regenerate

AlmightyKfish
Originally posted by Trackz
because a character can heal, doesn't mea they have a healing factor, there are different type of healing and regeneration. a healing factor specifically refers to the mutant ability to rapidly regenerate

No it doesn't, a healing factor refers to beyond human healing abilities.

Hulk has been said to have a healing factor- is he a mutant?

The healing may occur in different ways, but it's still a healing factor.

Trackz
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
No it doesn't, a healing factor refers to beyond human healing abilities.

Hulk has been said to have a healing factor- is he a mutant?

The healing may occur in different ways, but it's still a healing factor. wolveirne has made the differentiation before, he noticed zombies who were healing exceptionally fast, weren't regenerating, they didnt have healing factors, he noted blade had no healing factor as well.

and hulk is a result of a mutation due to gamma radiation

StiltmanFTW
There are the regenerative healing factors and the non-regenerative ones.

jinzin
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Lightsaber can cut through adamantium? Pics or it didn't happen stick out tongue bull to the shit on that one. Lightsabers ave notoriously failed against super dense metals in the SW EU some metals have caused them to keep shorting out on contact.

StiltmanFTW
Weren't Mandalorian armors lightsaber-resistant?

Trackz
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
There are the regenerative healing factors and the non-regenerative ones. healing factors are regenerative abilities though, thats why wolverine hinted at blade not having one since he can't regenerate

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Trackz
healing factors are regenerative abilities though, thats why wolverine hinted at blade not having one since he can't regenerate

He just asked him if he had a healing factor and scratched him.



There are stronger and weaker healing factors.

Take a look at this:

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/6025/thpowersabilities.jpg
Credit goes to ankur.

Trackz
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He just asked him if he had a healing factor and scratched him.



There are stronger and weaker healing factors.

Take a look at this:

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/6025/thpowersabilities.jpg
Credit goes to ankur. where does it specify the difference between healing factors? I've never heard of anyone but a mutant being identified with healing factor

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Trackz
where does it specify the difference between healing factors? I've never heard of anyone but a mutant being identified with healing factor

Long time ago it was believed that Logan couldn't regenerate missing limbs or smashed brain, but his power was still called a healing factor. It's a loose term. You want a specific one - there are listed in that scan in my previous post; enhanced regenerative, superhuman regenerative, etc.

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/4003/shehulk16015ob9.jpg
Credit goes to jinzin.

Trackz
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Long time ago it was believed that Logan couldn't regenerate missing limbs or smashed brain, but his power was still called a healing factor. It's a loose term. You want a specific one - there are listed in that scan in my previous post; enhanced regenerative, superhuman regenerative, etc.

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/4003/shehulk16015ob9.jpg
Credit goes to jinzin. I guess it must change from writer to writer, it must be a very loose term, but toxins regenerative abilities are very different from wolverines

jalek moye
Originally posted by Trackz


and hulk is a result of a mutation due to gamma radiation
hulk is still not a nmutant thouhg

hes a gamma mutate, they have there own catagory since there are a bunch

Phoenix2001
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Long time ago it was believed that Logan couldn't regenerate missing limbs or smashed brain, but his power was still called a healing factor. It's a loose term. You want a specific one - there are listed in that scan in my previous post; enhanced regenerative, superhuman regenerative, etc.

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/4003/shehulk16015ob9.jpg
Credit goes to jinzin.

Both Toxin and Wolverine's physcial anatomies are too different. Their HFs would not work the same way.

Trackz
Originally posted by jalek moye
hulk is still not a nmutant thouhg

hes a gamma mutate, they have there own catagory since there are a bunch yeah but the healing is still a result of a mutation, not that it matters, my basic point is that toxin and wolverines healing abilities are too different to assume the murarmasa blade would work on toxin identically to the way it worked on wolverine, even then it's not like wolverine couldn't heal from wounds inflicted by the muramasa blade, it just took him longer

jinzin
Alright, alright, alright.....

Venom's healing factor is incredibly impressive at times. There's no real evidence on just how it works; all we know is that he has one.

That said, it isn't a cure-all... It didn't do jack to prevent the development of Cancer in Eddie's system and did just about as little trying to combat it.
And.. quite frankly, we've seen Symbiote users get outright murdered being stabbed or diced with a sonic knife, and stay dead after the knife was removed which leads me to the conclusion that the symbiote's healing limitations are more abundant than those of say, Wolverine's.

Now the Muramasa may not be a sonic device, but it is made up of plasmic energy potent enough to completely shut down the effects of Wolverine's healing factor, and Sabretooths (of which both ARE a cure-all) AND possibly (going by statements) strong enough to rend through Colossus' skin.

Knives and swords have always had an effect on Venom, both Eddie, and Gargon... Especially Gargon. Even just having the tip of swordsman's sword hit him in the chest put Gargon on hold for a minute. Swordsman himself was able to battle Gargon for a prolonged fight, any moment's pause would give Daken all the advantage he'd need to end the fight. I seriously doubt even with Venom's healing ability a head shot is going to go unnoticed and that's if Daken wasn't just slicing limbs completely off, add in the possible effects of the Muramasa and he's pretty much done for. Frankly Toxin hasn't shown the same craftiness, intelligence, and overall ability of his predecessor in combat, and if Daken's pheramones did work on Toxin there's pretty much next to nothing he can do to defend himself.

Hell even without the pheramones and the Muramasa, we've seen Daken put Gargon on the ground momentarily with a single throat strike which is again all he needs, his pheramones aren't even necessary as he's already shown the ability to play mindgames with people, Toxin's chances of walking away the victor here are slim.

Kris Blaze
We're using the showing against Sabretooth?

Where his adamantium disappeared?

jinzin
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
We're using the showing against Sabretooth?
Where his adamantium disappeared?
What the f**k?







His Adamantium has been gone since 2005. confused


It disappeared circa M-day. no expression

Sin I AM
that throat strike nonsense was garbage imo, even though Gargan is a tool...the Venom symbiote is not. That scene should was written terribly

jinzin
Originally posted by Sin I AM
that throat strike nonsense was garbage imo, even though Gargan is a tool...the Venom symbiote is not. That scene should was written terribly

confused


Venom/Brock was effected by nerve strikes from DD before.

Sin I AM
Gargan is written terribly, as he was stronger than Spiderman B4 the symbiote upgrade, and seeing as how Venom is the stronger personality..he should take over in combat situations and his reaction speed should exceed dakens..i mean if anatomically he is different how could that strike even affect him?

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by jinzin


His Adamantium has been gone since 2005. confused


It disappeared circa M-day. no expression

Don't recall reading any storyline that involved him losing his adamantium. Weapon X gave it back to him. When did he supposedly lose it?

psycho gundam
Originally posted by jinzin
bull to the shit on that one. Lightsabers ave notoriously failed against super dense metals in the SW EU some metals have caused them to keep shorting out on contact. iirc a lightsaber took some time cutting through a metal wall or door in one of the movies.

Battlehammer
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Don't recall reading any storyline that involved him losing his adamantium. Weapon X gave it back to him. When did he supposedly lose it?
M day like he said.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by psycho gundam
iirc a lightsaber took some time cutting through a metal wall or door in one of the movies.

The Phantom Menace.

jalek moye
Originally posted by Sin I AM
that throat strike nonsense was garbage imo, even though Gargan is a tool...the Venom symbiote is not. That scene should was written terribly
gargan sucks. bullseye was pwning him

Mindset
Why is Gargan being compared to Toxin?

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Sin I AM
That scene should was written terribly ^ irony big grin

Sin I AM
i hate pis

jinzin
Originally posted by Mindset
Why is Gargan being compared to Toxin? Not so much Gargon but his damage soak/ healing factor.

Ptr_Grifin
Venom should be stronger than Toxin now. When Venom was on Eddie, Brock literally went to Cassady, beat the crap out of him, then ate the Carnage symbiote. The Carnage that Sentry ripped apart in space wasn't the original. It was a exact copy Cassady found in the negative zone. As far as I can tell, the original Carnage symbiote should still be with Venom.

Mindset
G. Venom is not stronger than Toxin, it's not even better than Eddie Brock Venom.

Ptr_Grifin
Originally posted by Mindset
G. Venom is not stronger than Toxin, it's not even better than Eddie Brock Venom.

Toxin was really weak in his mini.

StiltmanFTW
Not trying to defend Gargan or anything, but hasn't Venom merged with his clone? It made him stronger, right?

AlmightyKfish
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Toxin was really weak in his mini.

What?

He embarressed Wrecker/Piledriver in like, a page.

Ptr_Grifin
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
What?

He embarressed Wrecker/Piledriver in like, a page.

Wasn't he getting beat by a guy with swords for arms?

AlmightyKfish
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Wasn't he getting beat by a guy with swords for arms?

he never got beaten by him...

First fight, the minute he transformed Razorfist ran away.
Second fight, Toxin threw him out a window and smashed him into a car, but let him go b/c his dad was bleeding out.

Final fight, Toxin toyed around with him then one shotted him.

Kris Blaze
Razorfist HAS beaten Wolverine though.

d3str0ya100
Toxin

Battlehammer
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Razorfist HAS beaten Wolverine though.
yea who was haft dead and had just escaped being tortured, and if not mistaken he was holding back and could barly stand.

Mindset
i think he had a hang nail too, and he was having a bad hair day

Phoenix2001
Originally posted by jinzin
quite frankly, we've seen Symbiote users get outright murdered being stabbed or diced with a sonic knife, and stay dead after the knife was removed which leads me to the conclusion that the symbiote's healing limitations are more abundant than those of say, Wolverine's.

Now, lets be fair. The hosts for those particular symbiotes may have been killed, but that could be due in part of the symbiotes own pre-mature nature.


Originally posted by jinzin
Knives and swords have always had an effect on Venom, both Eddie, and Gargon... Especially Gargon. Even just having the tip of swordsman's sword hit him in the chest put Gargon on hold for a minute. Swordsman himself was able to battle Gargon for a prolonged fight, any moment's pause would give Daken all the advantage he'd need to end the fight. I seriously doubt even with Venom's healing ability a head shot is going to go unnoticed and that's if Daken wasn't just slicing limbs completely off, add in the possible effects of the Muramasa and he's pretty much done for. Frankly Toxin hasn't shown the same craftiness, intelligence, and overall ability of his predecessor in combat, and if Daken's pheramones did work on Toxin there's pretty much next to nothing he can do to defend himself.

Hell even without the pheramones and the Muramasa, we've seen Daken put Gargon on the ground momentarily with a single throat strike which is again all he needs, his pheramones aren't even necessary as he's already shown the ability to play mindgames with people, Toxin's chances of walking away the victor here are slim.

Like you said, we haven't seen the overall abilities of Toxin as of yet. We're not even certain if Toxin has even inherited the sound and heat weaknesses from Venom and Carnage.

Stunner2xx
seems to me like this Daken character is pretty broken with splicing and protective sheaths bit. Poor character design

Battlehammer
what?

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Battlehammer
yea who was haft dead and had just escaped being tortured, and if not mistaken he was holding back and could barly stand.

*sigh* Why is Wolverine always half dead? Y'know if it happened it happened....but I dunno.

Battlehammer
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
*sigh* Why is Wolverine always half dead? Y'know if it happened it happened....but I dunno.
he was being tortured for hours if not days. That why people need to stop stating things like this person beat that person with out stating the context.

Wolverine could barly stand he was in terriable shape and if I am not mistaken he could not pop his claws because he was pretending to be patch and wolverine was suposes to be dead.

Battlehammer
edit

Hyperion Prime
all symbiotes >>>>>> greater than Wolverine, Daken, Sabertooth, X23 etc. Cover up the face with symbiote smother them, then put most of a tendril into the nose and pull out the brain or scramble it.

Battlehammer
cis would prevent them from using such a strategy and Daken has claws with the ability to completely stop a person healing factor

Hyperion Prime
Originally posted by Trackz
because a character can heal, doesn't mea they have a healing factor, there are different type of healing and regeneration. a healing factor specifically refers to the mutant ability to rapidly regenerate


tumbleweed confused

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